Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / Christine D’Clario on Postpartum Depression, Trauma, and Finding Healing in the Desert

Transcript

Christine D’Clario on Postpartum Depression, Trauma, and Finding Healing in the Desert · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Christine, thanks for joining me.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Michael, It's so good to be here.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Christine de Clario Dove Award winning and Latin Grammy nominated
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: artist who has a new book, Healing in the Desert,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: which offers a roadmap for those walking through depression, anxiety,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: and trauma, based of course, on your own personal experience, Christine. Indeed, Christine,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: millions of people know you buy your music. What led
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: you to't want to open up about such a personal story.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Well, about seven and a half years ago, I got
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with a severe postpartum depression and one of my
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: biggest and hardest symptoms with suicide and so be a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: public figure, more so a public figure of faith and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: struggling with thoughts of death and an unsound mind was
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: something that I just can't reconcile I did it. I
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: was completely unaware that there were resources for people like me,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: that there were other people going through the same thing.
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  Speaker 1: And what does a leader in faith do, like, how
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  Speaker 1: do we confess? How do we reach out for help
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  Speaker 1: without the fear of maybe being shunned or being seen
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: as a failure. So there was a very big struggle.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I'm really grateful that there were key people in my
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: life that I know the Lord put there that were
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: able to identify what I was going through because they
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: can notice it. They'd been there before. It's a very
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: important thing to note. And they pretty much did an
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: intervention and put me headfirst into trauma therapy and just recovery.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: It turns out that my postpartum depression was a blessing
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: in disguise. It was the spears head of a deeper
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: healing that needed to happen from trauma from my childhood
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: that was never resolved. I survived sexual abuse at five.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I watched my dad's detriment to a until he passed away.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: When I was six. I was uprooted from New York
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: where I was born to a new country in Puerto Rico,
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  Speaker 1: and it was a snowball effect of complex trauma that
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I simply had just never dealt with. I grew up
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: in the Church, and what was instilled upon me was, Hey,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: the joy of the Lord is our strength. Okay, it's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: time to smile now that the passes in the past
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: move forward. And so we didn't have the resources for
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: mental health or inner healing or trauma resolution. So when
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I fell into that postpartum depression. Though it was probably
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the hardest and darkest season of my life, it was
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a blessing to me because it held the keys for
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: me to start opening up and allowing the light of
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the Lord to come into those dark places and heal.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And so I realized that I'm not alone, which is great.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: There are many, many, many more of us that struggle
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: with our mental health, especially in our generation, in our
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: day and age. One of the biggest pandemics in the world.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: It wasn't COVID nineteen, it's the lack of mental health.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: And people started reaching out to me as I became
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: vocal about my story and using my platform to talk
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: about my struggles. A lot of people have influence, especially
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: and I felt very convicted by the Lord that this
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  Speaker 1: wasn't a story for me. This was a story that
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: was going to serve as a guide for many, many people.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: And then I sat down and put it in a
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  Speaker 1: book with all those little guide posts and lamp posts
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  Speaker 1: and like little flags upon the road that we all
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  Speaker 1: can benefit from at some point in our lives and
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  Speaker 1: in our struggles. It's good to be able to see
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  Speaker 1: ourselves in the story of someone else, because what is
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: it that the Bible says the spirit of prophecy is
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  Speaker 1: a testimony of Jesus. So when we testify, it becomes
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  Speaker 1: the prophecy for someone else and it brings hope. And
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  Speaker 1: so that's why healing in the desert exists. It's my story, yes,
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  Speaker 1: but it's also everybody else's story wherever they find themselves
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: in their desert. Absolutely.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: You know, mental health, Christine can be a difficult subject
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  Speaker 2: to address in some church environments. What has your what
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: has been your experience in raising a subject within maybe
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: your own Christian community, and what do you holte this
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: book maybe teaches the body of Christ about this subject.
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  Speaker 1: Well, when I first confessed, I saw a very, very
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  Speaker 1: stark division, especially in the people of faith. There was
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  Speaker 1: half of them that were against it. No, this is spiritual,
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  Speaker 1: you're demonized, or no, you probably open the door to
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  Speaker 1: the enemy. Or no, you don't pray enough, or no,
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  Speaker 1: you don't go to church enough, which I understand because
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: we really haven't erected a good altar to renew the mind,
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  Speaker 1: not in our generation and not in any generation. We
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: see altars to the Lord, and you know, emotional altars,
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  Speaker 1: physical altars, spiritual altars, but nobody has laid down the
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: mind on the altar of the Lord so that he
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  Speaker 1: can help us renew it. We don't talk about it enough,
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  Speaker 1: we don't educate ourselves enough. Hopefully that changes with our
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  Speaker 1: work and those of us that are sounding the alarm
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  Speaker 1: and waking people up. So there was that half of
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  Speaker 1: the people that were you know, you kind of reject
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  Speaker 1: what you don't understand because you're afraid of it type thing.
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  Speaker 1: But the other half was very encouraging to me because
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  Speaker 1: it was either people that were saying, I didn't know
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  Speaker 1: someone like you could go through something like that. And
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  Speaker 1: if you face that, then I'm not so wrong for
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  Speaker 1: suffering in the same way. And if you came out
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  Speaker 1: of it and you found your way through the desert,
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  Speaker 1: then that gives me hope. How do I go through this?
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  Speaker 1: And I'm absolutely happy to give all the wisdom that
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: the Lord has given me in my journey and the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: resources things like work that we now do. With mental health.
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  Speaker 1: We started a ministry called soul Share Health that soul
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  Speaker 1: share health dot com, and it's a community of believers
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  Speaker 1: who are either going through crisis or have been through crisis,
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  Speaker 1: or their mental health care professionals that are licensed to
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  Speaker 1: be able to help us navigate through our stuff. We
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  Speaker 1: get together and we gather monthly and weekly for prayer,
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  Speaker 1: just to build each other up and come out of
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  Speaker 1: the desert. So for that part of the population is
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  Speaker 1: who I work for that I've seen myself until I'm
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  Speaker 1: very very very old and ot and headed and in
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  Speaker 1: my deathbed surrounded by my kids and grandkids and great grandkids,
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  Speaker 1: going home to Jesus thinking about all those people who
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: are still earthside and are fulfilling their process and their
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: progress and the Lord because a few brave of us
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: decided to not see vulnerability as a weakness, but as
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  Speaker 1: a superpower and a sword that we can wield in
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  Speaker 1: defense of those that haven't understood it yet.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Amen to that that you mentioned therapy, How did therapy
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: interact with your faith on this journey, because that's a
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: big part of your book.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I recommend therapy wholeheartedly. But there is the butt not
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  Speaker 1: any therapy, because there are sometimes are therapists that need
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: therapy more than giving it. No no, no.
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  Speaker 3: Therapy by a spirit filled anchored in the Bible, therapist
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  Speaker 3: who knows the Holy Spirit, who sits with Jesus daily,
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  Speaker 3: who walks with God and lithens who.
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  Speaker 1: Leans on the Lord and not on their own understanding
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  Speaker 1: and their books savvy to be able to help people through.
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  Speaker 1: That is the key. Had I not had the combination
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: of a very spirit filled, highly discerning therapist and Jesus,
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  Speaker 1: I would probably still be in the therapeutic process now
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  Speaker 1: because there was way too much to unpack. So the
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  Speaker 1: key is a Christian spirit filled therapist that will bring
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the Word of God into session. You know, there's a
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  Speaker 1: statistic that says that you can exponentially accelerate the progress
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  Speaker 1: and the outcome of your therapy if you pull faith
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  Speaker 1: into session. That's statistically proven you advance more than sixty
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  Speaker 1: or seventy percent speed if you bring God into the equation.
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  Speaker 1: So that is the key, sitting with someone, not doing
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  Speaker 1: it alone, because if you're in the mess and you
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  Speaker 1: haven't been able to come out on your own, chances
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  Speaker 1: are the Lord is calling you to pair up with
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  Speaker 1: someone who's already been there and who can help you
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  Speaker 1: through it. And he sent his disciples two by two,
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  Speaker 1: and that was for a reason because when one is weak,
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  Speaker 1: the other one lifts him up and vice versa.
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  Speaker 2: Am in a that that's so good. I'm curious. So,
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  Speaker 2: when you were struggling years ago, did you at Sim's
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: question God, did you question your faith? It seems like
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: it ended up building your faith. But what was it
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  Speaker 2: like at the time.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I wouldn't call it fully deconstruction. It was more
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: like ripping off band aids. There were there were lots
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  Speaker 1: of concepts I had about God that were like putting
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a band aid on an open bowel. You know, it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't really work, That's not what it's for. A bunch
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  Speaker 1: of scripture that was kind of half out of context
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  Speaker 1: that just wasn't serving me fully because I wasn't profound
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  Speaker 1: enough into suffering to seat or the full answer, you
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  Speaker 1: know what I mean. Sometimes you have to go through it,
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  Speaker 1: and you have to go through a depth of pain
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  Speaker 1: so that you can understand the fullness of the joys
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  Speaker 1: that come after the pain. And so my perspective needed
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  Speaker 1: to be broadened, and part of that was me having
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  Speaker 1: it out with the Lord. One thing that I learned
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  Speaker 1: about him that makes me so in love with him
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  Speaker 1: now is that he can take it. When when I
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: was angry and I lashed out at the Lord, he stayed.
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  Speaker 1: When I was depressed and felt so pathetic and a loser.
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  Speaker 1: He stayed when I was revisiting disgusting pain. He stayed,
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  Speaker 1: and he could take it. He could take all my anger,
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  Speaker 1: all my frustration, all my pain, all my wailing. Even
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  Speaker 1: when I couldn't take myself. I was like, look God,
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  Speaker 1: because then stop already. And I couldn't because my body
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  Speaker 1: was just resolving the trauma. He stayed, and he remained,
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  Speaker 1: and he was stubbornly insistent in being a faithful companion,
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  Speaker 1: even when I couldn't handle a single word from anyone,
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  Speaker 1: including him, because my brain was just too fragile. His
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  Speaker 1: presence in silence was sufficient to help me stay hopeful
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  Speaker 1: that if he didn't leave me, there was still some
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  Speaker 1: worthiness inside of me that he saw enough to restore me,
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  Speaker 1: and the work that he started he will fulfill in
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  Speaker 1: my life and everyone else's. So I was only able
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  Speaker 1: to see that perspective of God's love in the depths
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  Speaker 1: and the darkness of the desert. I wouldn't have been
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  Speaker 1: able to fall in love with him that way. Any
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  Speaker 1: other way.
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  Speaker 2: I think many characters in in scripture would would it,
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  Speaker 2: would would agree with you they they walked in your
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  Speaker 2: shoes and would say exactly what you just said. I
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  Speaker 2: think that there's a lot there's many examples of that
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  Speaker 2: in scripture.
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  Speaker 1: I can't wait to have a big round table in
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  Speaker 1: heaven and be like Elijah, come here, let's have a
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  Speaker 1: little chat. I want to see your perspective on that
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  Speaker 1: depression that you want to kill her, you want to
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  Speaker 1: kill yourself under the rubush. Tell me about that.
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  Speaker 2: Asked, Yeah, the book is healing in the desert. Let's
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  Speaker 2: switch briefly to your music career. For those who don't
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: know who Christine does, who Christina is? You have two
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: million monthly Spotify streams. That's more than many artists that
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I listened to. So you are somebody in the music world.
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  Speaker 2: Did you grow up wanting to be a singer? Yeah, okay,
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  Speaker 2: tell us about that. From what age and how did
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  Speaker 2: you get started?
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  Speaker 1: My mom tells me, and she very vividly remembers that
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  Speaker 1: I thinging since before I could speak. There were tunes,
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  Speaker 1: and everybody was very impressed in my family because I
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: can carry a tune perfectly. I had a great musical ear,
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  Speaker 1: so even before I was babbling, I was already you know,
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  Speaker 1: humming songs and going back. I would drive them absolutely insane,
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  Speaker 1: repeating the same cassettes over and over and over and
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  Speaker 1: over with the same song. Since I was just so
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  Speaker 1: fascinated by music, and music became a place of refuge
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  Speaker 1: for me when I was going through all those childhood
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  Speaker 1: pains and wounds. It became a very good escape. It
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: was a good companion for a season. It was an idol.
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  Speaker 1: And when I had my encounter of salvation with the Lord,
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  Speaker 1: then it became my most pleasant gift to him. Oh
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: there to ask me, Yeah, I do have it every day,
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  Speaker 1: just that of gratitude. I have decided that I will
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  Speaker 1: sing to Him and only him.
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  Speaker 2: And then that tell us about your conversion. You mentioned
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: it briefly there did you come fIF as a youngster,
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  Speaker 2: as a teenager, as a young adult, at the age.
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  Speaker 1: Of nineteen, I had my encounter with the Lord. However,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I grew up in the Church, so my culture, my
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: upbringing was all I was through and through the church. Kid,
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  Speaker 1: I talked the talk, didn't really walk the walk because
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I my relationship with God as a father was kind
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of null because I didn't have my father. So I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: grew up missing him, longing to one debut with him,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: but not having him. So That's the same filter with
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: which I looked time every time somebody said no and God,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: our Father, who aren't heaven A like, oh yeah, he's
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: all the way up there and I'm down here and
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: he's too busy with the affairs of the world. But
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: you know, if I do everything right, I'll meet him
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  Speaker 1: one day. But having a relationship with him was it
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  Speaker 1: something that I can say I had up until the
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  Speaker 1: age of nineteen, after I had become the worship leader
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  Speaker 1: of a very large, influential church in my town. But
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I was living a double life. I became very rebellious
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  Speaker 1: because of all the pain that I was carrying, and
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: weekends I was at church as the church girl music minister,
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  Speaker 1: and during the week I was doing the exact opposite.
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  Speaker 1: I was flying off the rims. So I made a
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  Speaker 1: lot of mistakes in that time of double living and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: just hypocritical Christianity, and I hit a rock bottom. That
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  Speaker 1: was the first time that I faced mental health issues.
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  Speaker 1: I also was suicidal back then, had a deep depression,
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  Speaker 1: and the Lord rescued me from that. It made it
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  Speaker 1: all the more when I found myself many many decades
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: later in the same spot after being.
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  Speaker 4: Redeemed and having a relationship with the Lord, which goes
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  Speaker 4: to show that Jesus was so right in saying in
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: the world you will have troubles, but take heart, I
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  Speaker 4: have overcome the world.
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  Speaker 1: So if you're with me, I've got the way out.
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  Speaker 1: And so when I had the moment of rock bottom
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  Speaker 1: back when I was nineteen, I kind of reached out
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  Speaker 1: to the Lord. And not the best way, truly. It
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  Speaker 1: was a snarky prayer, was it very nice with my verbiage.
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  Speaker 1: I was kind of street. And so I kind of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: called out the Lord in an ultimatum and said, well,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: if you love me, if you exist, if you're real,
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  Speaker 1: if you have any plans with me or whatever, you
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  Speaker 1: have until midnight to show me, or I'm just going
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: to go out into the world fully up, become a
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  Speaker 1: secular artist or something. And that's it. And so eleven
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: forty something, this lady comes up to me out of
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  Speaker 1: nowhere and she starts speaking to me on behalf of
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  Speaker 1: the Lord. Starts by saying, I am the Lord, your God,
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  Speaker 1: I do exist, I am real, I do love you,
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  Speaker 1: and yes, I do have a plan with you, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you right now. And it was so
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  Speaker 1: beautiful that the Lord spoke to me in the language
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  Speaker 1: that I understood, because I was very haughty and proud
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  Speaker 1: back then. So I was like, I'll tell you peace
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  Speaker 1: of mylind And so he turned around and told me
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  Speaker 1: a piece of his It totally humbled me, but at
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: the same time embraced me with such a precious, deep, abundant,
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  Speaker 1: rich love. I finally saw that I was worth it,
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  Speaker 1: that he would make somebody go out of their way
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  Speaker 1: to bring a message of his on me and reveal
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  Speaker 1: his fatherly love to me. Fatherly love is not necessarily
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: easy love, because it was very confrontational. I was like,
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  Speaker 1: you made mistakes, your life is a miss but come,
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  Speaker 1: let me hold you, let me heal your wounds, let
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: me wash your face, and let me teach you the
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  Speaker 1: way you need to go. And I mean, it was
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  Speaker 1: like a Jeremiah moment. He seduced me with his love,
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  Speaker 1: and I just I had no escape. I fell madly
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  Speaker 1: in love with my Savior that day. That was August
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  Speaker 1: of two thousand and three, and I'm never going back,
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  Speaker 1: never ever. Amen to that.
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  Speaker 2: Amen, let's close this. Let's close this with a little
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: bit of advice from maybe we were walking and the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: shoes that you were walking in. Maybe people were battling
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: with anxiety, depression and some of the issues that you faced.
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  Speaker 2: What advice would you give them right now?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I would start with scripture. There's a scripture that
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: says that many are the afflictions of the righteous, meaning
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: there's different ways in which this world is going to
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  Speaker 1: hit us, and it's gonna hurt but immediately it says,
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  Speaker 1: but of all of those, the Lord will rescue you.
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  Speaker 1: If you're in a situation where you feel you can't
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  Speaker 1: escape and you feel like you've tried everything and that
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  Speaker 1: you're still in the hole. I know no better hero
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  Speaker 1: than the Holy Spirit. His rescue is exactly what we
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  Speaker 1: need when we need it now. There is a little
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  Speaker 1: tag to that, and it's to not embrace the lies
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  Speaker 1: of the enemy that he isn't there, because he is.
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  Speaker 1: He's always there, and sometimes we're wanting to find him
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  Speaker 1: in like these big supernatural gestures when he's been speaking
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  Speaker 1: to you in the still small whisper. So get still
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  Speaker 1: and know that he is God, and don't believe that
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  Speaker 1: you are alone, because you're not. The Lord is with him,
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  Speaker 1: and people like me are with you too. There is
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  Speaker 1: an entire army of us that is forming to be
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  Speaker 1: able to help you out. You do not have to
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  Speaker 1: walk this journey alone. There. Yes, there are a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people out there that are not professing the proper Christianity.
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  Speaker 1: I know social media is full of them, but there
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  Speaker 1: are many of us who still understand that those of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: us that are spiritual, as the Apostle Paul said, we
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: bring up our brothers and sisters with meekness and with
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: compassion and with a tender heart. So find someone you trust,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: don't hold it in, tell them what you're going through
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: so that you have someone to walk with you. And
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: if you don't have that person, you are welcome to
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: log into soulsharehealth dot com. We have a community of
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: very strong faith believers that can help you through because
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: we've all been through stuff and we have the authority
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: from the Lord to help you and pull you out
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: of it too.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: If you enjoy today's interview, please make sure to subscribe
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and share the episode with a friend. A big thanks
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to the team at life Audio for their partnership with
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: us on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: their network, See you next time.