Latest / Why We Do What We Do / Mini: Musings and Prognostications Continued (Immigration)

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Mini: Musings and Prognostications Continued (Immigration) · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do? Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do many I'm your host,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Abraham and I'm Shane. We are a psychology podcast. We
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: talk about all of the things that people do, and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: sometimes we just speculate on the future. And this is
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: kind of a very specially weird version of this discussion
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: because this is a mini episode which we release as
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a short form discussion on Mondays and then we do
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: our full length discussions that are usually closer to forty
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: five minutes or an hour on or more on Wednesdays.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And we just had more to say about one of
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: those full episodes, but not so much that we wanted
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: to do it in a full length episode, so then
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: we're we were recorded a mini and we decided that
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: was too long, so then we recorded too minis yes,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: And so this is an expansion on the discussion we
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: have been had of our musings and prognostications following the
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four presidential election. And today's topic will be
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: about immigration, yes.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And the conversation about immigration, I think is a complex one.
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  Speaker 2: There are a lot of values to maybe unpack inside
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: of it. But today we are just going to kind
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: of talk about what we think is going to happen
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: when it comes to immigration as it relates to policy
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: inside of the United States government under the incoming administration.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, so thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to support us after you've heard this discussion,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: you can join us on Patreon, pick up some merch
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: at our merch store, leave us a rating and review, Liken, subscribe,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: or tell a friend.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: But yeah, let's get into today's topic.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: The whole theme of the campaign was this gigantic, fear
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: mongering scare tactic about immigration as the cause of all
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: of our problems in the United States. How well that
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: resonated for people, I don't know, but it kind of
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter at this point because that was a huge
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: campaign platform, and so that has become a focal point
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: for what the new administration is gearing up to do.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: And there is essentially four things to talk about that
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: are likely to happen here because they've been campaigning on
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: this idea of mass deportation. Now that is nearly impossible
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: to pull off, really if you think about how what
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: would take place, But essentially they'd have to identify who
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: is being deported. They have to collect them somehow, and
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: they have to get them on transport to deport them
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  Speaker 1: to wherever they're going. And so the first step is
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: identifying the who. And this is a place at which
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: precision is not something that is in their wheelhouse and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: is not even something they really care about, right, which
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: is to say, the people they identify as being illegal
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  Speaker 1: immigrants might not be illegal immigrants. They could be asylum seekers,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: they could be people who are here with visas and
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: green cards. They could be legal citizens, naturalized citizens of
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the United States. But the way that they're going to
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: try and determine whether or not they're legal citizens is
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: by looking at their skin color mostly and asking can
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I see your papers? And if it just so happens
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  Speaker 1: you don't have them on you, you might end up
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  Speaker 1: in a detention camp. And again they might not ask,
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  Speaker 1: they might just say, they might just see you and say, like,
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  Speaker 1: you look like you don't belong here. I'm going to
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: detain you. I'll try and sort this out later, maybe
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: if I get around to it.
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  Speaker 2: And that's actually a significant problem because when that happens,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: then you've got situations that are reminiscent of early World
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: War Two. You've got internment camp concerns. I mean, and
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: you know, we can bring that up and we can
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: draw the parallels specifically about those types of situations where
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: you have got groups of people who are being profiled
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  Speaker 2: as a result of a specific rhetoric or language and
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. And a lot of times people do
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  Speaker 2: point to things like internment camps, which we will talk
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: about detention camps in a second. That example of identifying
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  Speaker 2: somebody as other and creating that kind of enemy as
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  Speaker 2: a result of the language that this administration is using.
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  Speaker 2: Now you're creating like this happened after nine to eleven. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: anybody who could be remotely considered Middle Eastern, all of
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  Speaker 2: a sudden they were an enemy the state, they were
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  Speaker 2: a suspect, and it became a There was a huge
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  Speaker 2: increase in hate crimes as a result of that. So
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  Speaker 2: this is this is not just about you know, dispelling
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  Speaker 2: mets around immigration. This is also about people safety and
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  Speaker 2: the rhetoric that's being used is very, very very dangerous
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  Speaker 2: to people who could be identified as quote unquote as
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  Speaker 2: Mexican immigrants and they may not even be from Mexico
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  Speaker 2: very much.
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  Speaker 1: So, yes, exactly right. Another example you mentioned the hate
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  Speaker 1: crimes following nine to eleven was the hate crimes that
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  Speaker 1: increased among Asian Americans at the beginning of COVID. People
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  Speaker 1: already do not do this with precision. This government does
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  Speaker 1: not necessarily do things of this nature with precision, and
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  Speaker 1: the incoming administration could not care less about precision and
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  Speaker 1: how this is implemented. Right, So, like, there are going
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to be people who are incorrectly identified as flagged for deportation,
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  Speaker 1: who are going to end up in these camps and
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  Speaker 1: will be deported even though they are legal citizens here.
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  Speaker 1: That's going to happen, maybe not often, but it will happen.
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  Speaker 1: There are going to be people who die in these camps.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And so let's actually talk about the camps here. Is
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: already the government of the state of Texas has already
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: guaranteed the incoming administration that Texas will set aside a
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  Speaker 1: gigantic chunk of land to house detention camps for people
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  Speaker 1: they identify for deportation, and so like, that means that
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  Speaker 1: they're going to be taking these people, putting them in
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  Speaker 1: these camps that are not super different from camps you
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: might have found in Nazi Germany in the nineteen thirties.
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  Speaker 1: And people are going to suffer there. They're going to
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  Speaker 1: have to feed them, bring them water, and sure that
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  Speaker 1: they've got access to some kind of toilets. And what's
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  Speaker 1: that going to look like by a group of people
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  Speaker 1: who don't care whether the people they have in turned
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  Speaker 1: or live or die. It's going to look ugly, is
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  Speaker 1: how that's going to work. So they're going to be
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  Speaker 1: filling up these camps with people, some of them who
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  Speaker 1: don't belong there at all, and some of them who
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  Speaker 1: are not Mexican, people who they flag to return to Mexico,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: or return to Mexico, send to Mexico, I guess. And
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  Speaker 1: so that's a thing that's already happening. That seems like
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a good point at which to interrupt with an advertisement. Okay,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: we are back. The next part of this is where
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: are they getting those people? Because most people who come
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: into the United States, however they choose to come here
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: when they're immigrating, they come here for work, right And
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the people who come here who do so illegally, who
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  Speaker 1: tend to work jobs where they get paid under the table,
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  Speaker 1: they're working in sectives of our economy that are massively
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: critical to our survival as a country. The vast majority
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: of our park and forestry system is actually populated by immigrants.
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  Speaker 1: But they're not the place where you have as many
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  Speaker 1: illegal immigran It's where you find a lot of them
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  Speaker 1: is in the farm sector and in agriculture. That they
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  Speaker 1: are out there working in those places. And I get
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that it is not an ideal system that our economy
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  Speaker 1: depends on paying people below minimum wage, like a not
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  Speaker 1: living wage, to perform crazy difficult labor for long periods
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  Speaker 1: of time, and that that's how our economy survives. I
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: get that that is a massive problem that we need
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  Speaker 1: to fix. It is the current system. And if you
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: pull all of that labor out of that system, what happens.
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  Speaker 1: That means the farms do not have enough workers to
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: produce their product. That means they might have to hire
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  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of workers who don't want those jobs.
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  Speaker 1: By the way, pay them significantly more, which means that
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: the cost of their overhead is way higher than they were,
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  Speaker 1: Which means that if they can fill those jobs, if
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  Speaker 1: they can continue to produce their products at the rate
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  Speaker 1: they're producing them, they're going to have to charge a
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: lot more. And if they're charging a lot more, then
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  Speaker 1: people are going to buy more imported goods which are
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: being taxed by tariffs, which means they're paying a higher
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: tax on those goods. So either way, the prices go
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: up substantially, like they could go up way beyond what
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  Speaker 1: you thought was possible from the worst parts of inflation.
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  Speaker 1: The alternative, though, is that those businesses just die. That
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  Speaker 1: those farms collapse because they cannot produce at a rate
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  Speaker 1: that they can sustain, and the other businesses that are
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  Speaker 1: not farms, that are largely employing people who are here
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  Speaker 1: illegally who just came for work, those businesses will lose
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a huge chunk of their workforce. That means they can
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: no longer afford to stay open, which means they close,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: which means that everyone who was hired there who is
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a natural born US citizen also is out of a job,
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  Speaker 1: and that place is no longer participating in the economy,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and neither are their employees. Is a thing that research
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  Speaker 1: has found also happens. And the people who are here
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  Speaker 1: for work, they have to buy groceries while they're here,
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  Speaker 1: They have to pay utilities while they're here, They have
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: to like by gas while they're here. They are participating
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  Speaker 1: in our economy. And so when you're trying to excize
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  Speaker 1: literally millions of people who are participating in our economy,
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  Speaker 1: our economy is going to take a pretty substantial chunk
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  Speaker 1: out of it by the virtue of that workforce being gone.
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  Speaker 1: So I just think that's one thing to prepare for
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  Speaker 1: is I think this is going to dramatically and drastically
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  Speaker 1: change the nature of.
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  Speaker 3: Businesses in our economy.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And we're going to see prices go up, probably pretty
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: quickly and pretty aggressively, and we're going to see some
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: businesses collapse, which will overall hurt particularly some rural towns
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  Speaker 1: where there aren't very many people.
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  Speaker 3: That might be the end of some of those towns.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that makes perfect sense. I mean, when you
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: start thinking about like the balancing any sort of equation
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: that has to do with money, you go, Okay, removing
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: a chunk of people who are spending money in economy
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: will already cause a deficit. Removing the people that are
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: doing the work and replacing them with folks that are
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: going to require a higher level of pay because of
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: the way our system works is going to increase those
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: goods on top of the imported goods, like you are
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: creating these deficits on both ends. It's burning the candle
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: at both ends effectively, right, right, It is absolutely it
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: is like pure destruction on both sides of this issue.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: That it just doesn't make any sense for people who
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: are trying to vote for lower prices. It literally is
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: the antithesis of that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, this will not work.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: They will not be able to remove the people they
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: think that they're removing, not with any level of precision.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: They're going to remove people they shouldn't be removing. People
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: are going to die, people are going to get hurt.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: The economy is going to take a huge gut punch
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: to the stomach and maybe the jugular. We'll see how
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: that all shakes out, but those are very likely going
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: to if it comes to pass that they act on
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: this mass deportation thing, and they are working hard to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: make it come to pass, so it seems very likely
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: that at least a version of it will. The outcome
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: is not going to be what people think it is
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: because crimes are not being committed by immigrants. They're being
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: committed by people here, and when their economies start to decrease,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: crimes get worse. So like we're going to see an
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: increase in crime and increase of prices, a decrease in
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the economy, and a bunch of people who we want
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: here anyway will no longer be here. It is something
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: that I think people do not have a lot of
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: critical thinking around the implications of this. And again, I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: get that the system isn't working super well, and I
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: just want to have a quick aside. I know we're
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: like way past our normal time length on this, but
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I want to have a quick a side of Like
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: people who constantly say, like, I'm cool with immigrants, They're
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: great as long as it's legal.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I have a problem with is illegal immigrants. Okay, fine,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I get what your argument you're coming from there, But in.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: My mind, the next logical solution then is make it
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: as easy as possible to become a legal immigrant. Like,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: if that's your concern, then make it easy. But that's
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: not actually the concern. The concern is people who don't
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: look like me are coming into this country, people who
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: don't speak a language I speak are coming into this country.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: That's what their actual concern is. And so rather than
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: embracing the benefits of diversity that come with people who
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: look different and speak a different language. They're choosing to
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: shoot themselves in the foot by getting rid of that
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: amazing group of people that we benefit from having them
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: in our country to begin with. And ideally we should
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: just make it easier for them to come into this
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: country and work or live or do whatever. If your
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: concern is illegal immigration, that making it easier to do
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: legal immigration should be the next logical step.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And the concerns that people typically bring up about illegal
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: immigration is totally untrue. They argue that illegal immigrants are
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: burdening the healthcare system and what we have to pay
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: for them, which is all false, right, Like, so none
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: of that is true. The majority of the healthcare system
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: that is being burdened is due to citizens and also
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: the healthcare system overcharging.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a whole engaging.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: In predatory practice. So that's a system that's a whole
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: different thing on its own. People will argue immigration and
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: welfare issues false. The majority of people who are on
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: welfare are or like any sort of like social program
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: like that are US citizens who are mostly white. So
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: like you're going to find that they've demonized a group
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: of people when the actual issue is really of their
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: own creation. Like it's really a wild it's a really
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: it's the amount of cognitive dissonance that has to occur
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and the hurdles that have to be jumped to make
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: those those arguments is astounding to me.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: And because when so long quick hurdle, another ad break,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: All right, well we'll wrap this up real quick because
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: we're so far over time.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: But you're exactly right.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: And that it's counterproductive, like it's people who are accomplishing
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the opposite of what they accomplished because they're believing incorrect
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: information that is demonstrably false. And there are people who
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: will point out, like, we don't have enough housing to
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: let that many people into the country right now, and
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: they're kind of right, there is a shortage of housing.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: But the solution to that is build and sell more houses.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: And I guarantee you people who are developers who want
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: who are like real estate moguls, they have no problem
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: with that as a solution. They are very happy to
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: build and sell more houses and apartments.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Can repurpose abandoned buildings. There are plenty of abandoned buildings
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: that can be broken up into small apartments that can
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: be that you use for like transitionary periods. Like or
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: student housing. There's a lot of Like if you go
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: to Jacksonville, Florida and you go to downtown, like there
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: are so many abandoned warehouses and buildings that if you
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: spent a little bit of money bringing it up to code,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: you can make it. And they actually did this project
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: in Jacksonville where they actually took unhoused people, they got
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: them into these buildings and the workforce increased, The amount
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: of arrests decreased in the area, the amount of drug
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: charges decreased. Like it's there are solutions to these things
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: that are creative solutions that people just don't want to see.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really great that data were really promising
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: and it was a really cool pilot. But ultimately the
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: problem is people don't they see a price tag and
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: they don't want to deal with that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: That is essentially what we wanted to say about this.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Like we got more down the sort of rabbit horn
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: immigration than I thought that we would. But I think,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you know, we discussed immigration on here and people continue
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to bring this up as an issue, and like our
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: country exists because of immigration.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: That's the only reason it exists.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: For better or for worse, there are a lot of
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: problems that came with the immigration that happened where we were, like,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: let's move a good chunk of Europe in here and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: then have all the babies and kick out.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: All the people who lived here before us.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Like, obviously huge amounts of problems, but like, our country
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: has the highest GDP in the world by like a
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: comically large margin, right, And part of that has to
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: do with the fact that we have a lot of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: people here and a lot of immigrants choose to come here,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and being a place that is a popular place for
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: people to come makes it a good strong economy. So
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: kicking people out is the opposite of trending in the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: direction toward a good strong economy. So the people out
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: there who don't have this information, they're not listening to us.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: So again this is mostly to arm our very smart
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: listeners with information that can go out and share with others.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Because I realized that a lot of times I feel
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: like I'm talking to you and you're not the problem.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: You found your way to a podcast to learn more things,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: So like, you guys are already on probably the people
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: doing the right thing. So maybe this is you can
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: share this podcast or just share the information with the
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: people who need to hear it.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: But it's I feel like I just wanted to get these.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Talking points out there because there's just so much drastic misinformation.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely one percent.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: All right, Well that went long, although maybe it's short
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: depending on whether we split this into two minis, which
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: would be very strange but probably the thing we're going
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to do.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: So I think we'll end it there.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to reach out to us about anything
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: we talked about here today or in any of our discussions,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you can email us directly info at WWD wwdpodcast dot com,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: join us on social media platforms and over on Patreon,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: leave us a rating and review, like, and subscribe to
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: a friend, all those things, and I think that is
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: all I have to say. Is there anything you like
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: to add or anything I forgot before we wrap this
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: one up?
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Shane, I got nothing on my end?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Then, this is Abraham, This is Shane. We're out the YEP.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: You've been listening to Why we do what we do.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: day