Latest / EEShow (Everything's Energy Show) / Can Energy Medicine Actually Heal You? The Evidence Problem | Everything's Energy Ep-44

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Can Energy Medicine Actually Heal You? The Evidence Problem | Everything's Energy Ep-44 · EEShow (Everything's Energy Show)

• 0:00
  Roland: I can only imagine the challenges that you've had with people trying to tell you all of the things about things that there's no diagnostics that can go, this is doing exactly this in the body. And that's the hard part about energy medicine as a field. There are people who try to capitalize upon things. They wanna hustle a buck. They wanna make a device to jump on a bandwagon.
• 0:18
  But not only are they not actually doing something beneficial, potentially knowingly, they don't even understand what they're actually trying to do because how would you define energy medicine knowing all that you've known? Like, how do you even relate that to someone who has no idea what they're talking about? Michael Scalar.
• 0:34
  Michael: Hello. You're on you're on
• 0:35
  Roland: the other side of the table today.
• 0:37
  Michael: Students stole my chair. I guess I'm being interviewed now.
• 0:39
  Roland: I I think The tables have turned. The tables stayed the same. I think we just turned around where you are. Yeah. It's it's interesting because normally, you're asking the questions as the main host of the show, but you really are the man behind the scenes oftentimes when it comes to how you operate the business, how you your life.
• 0:58
  And I thought, well, you're an interesting individual. You're a modern day polymath. And people should know more about you in that context because you have a lot to share with the world. So I thought, let's ask you some questions, and you obliged. I didn't have to trick you to get you here.
• 1:12
  Michael: No. It's funny. One of the one of the co owners of the studio here was like, I tried to find out stuff about you online. I couldn't find anything. I'm like, well, for a long time, was kind of by on purpose.
• 1:20
  Because I'd I'd I don't yearn to be famous like a lot of people, especially in in this industry or in general. And that that stems from years of being a musician and a DJ. I would go out and people would run up on me and I have no idea who they are and I get super anxious because everyone knew who I was and I didn't know who anyone was. And I was like, they're running up like, my god, I know you. And I'm like, when someone does that normally, you're like, oh, well, I know you as well or have some reference, and it just it gave me tons of anxiety.
• 1:47
  And so when I stopped being a DJ, a music producer, my anxiety went to zero. I was like, I have no anxiety anymore. This is such a trip. And I I backtracked. I'm like, it was because I'm an introvert, and everyone was trying to come up to me and get to know me and I just kind of made me like on stage, I was calm as a cucumber peace, playing music, no one's talking to me, I'm just focused.
• 2:09
  It was amazing. But then off stage, it was, oh my god. You're famous, and I I follow you on Facebook. And, my god. It's so good to I know you.
• 2:18
  And we met once, and we were really drunk. And I was like, okay. What's going on?
• 2:23
  Roland: You do a hysterical fan impression really good. I'm I'm believing this story. Yeah. Happened a lot.
• 2:28
  Michael: And people come up on, like, lots of drugs and stuff too. It'll make me more anxious because they're like big bulging eyes like, and now you're just like, okay. Alright. An alien just walked up.
• 2:39
  Roland: Oh. You're trying to human. You don't quite get it.
• 2:41
  Michael: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Roland: So was it a the inauthenticity of you not being able to meet them as they were meeting you? I know you. I know stuff about you. What did that make you feel uncomfortable when you were a professional musician and a DJ?
• 2:54
  Michael: Well, just didn't know if I actually did know that I met them because I meet so many people. So I would feel really inauthentic in my soul because I felt bad. I'm like, I should know this person because they apparently know me. So it just kinda ground on me. I didn't have that nonchalantness where I could just be like, oh yeah, hey fan, like cool.
• 3:12
  Yeah bro, you want me to sign your boob? Whatever.
• 3:15
  Roland: Would you sign mine after the show?
• 3:16
  Michael: I'll sign your boob. Yeah. It it was just it was a weird feeling and I'm super introvert. So in crowds of people, I kinda shut off. And so then you have people on drugs running up and be like, ah.
• 3:26
  I was like, okay. I need to go find a corner.
• 3:31
  Roland: It's an interesting premise when you have things that other people haven't, right? Because we're talking about your time as a DJ, which you were an internationally renowned DJ for how many years?
• 3:41
  Michael: I started DJing when I was 16 and producing music just a year or two after that, diving into that, learning how to work synthesizers, hardware at the time, and then the software. And I think I stopped around age 37. I'm about to turn 43, like officially stopped, 37, 36, something like that. Mhmm. And I played a few gigs after that, just yeah.
• 4:01
  And I honestly, I'll probably play a few more gigs, I just don't have the time for it. But yeah, I've been the furthest place I got booked was like Mykonos, Greece, which was amazing. Not the best gig. My favorite parties were obviously Burning Man. Super amazing production out there with lots of people really really high on drugs, they dance And extra extra
• 4:23
  Roland: what would you say you learned most about yourself and about life from being a DJ that you carry with you today or maybe you transfer to what you do now?
• 4:31
  Michael: More of it came probably from event production because I threw parties as well and managing expectations, especially really entitled people who tend to just self indulge. Managing those expectations, the team's expectations, volunteers' expectations. The production side of load in, load out, it gave me a lot of insight into you need redundancy on everything, and you need a good team, and you need clear communication, and even clearer communication with people who are in the party scene because you'll literally tell them x y z, and they'll hear a b c, which was really weird. So a lot of my life skills I feel that I pulled into business came from event production. On the music side, it was more the scientific understanding of how frequency energy and vibration or energy wellness.
• 5:19
  I got more of a synesthesia, how you see sound in seeing science. Because people go, well, what's that frequency? But they don't know what the frequency is. It's just a term that they've heard enough that they think that's they sound smart when they say that frequency of five two eight or whatever. It's like, well, what is that?
• 5:36
  There's long long frequency and short frequency, long being like your low hertz, and it's a wide long wave pattern. And then your short is literally just squiggly lines really on on a screen. So when you start to see how these things function and the the way that speakers process sound and the way you can compress and manipulate audio in different ways, it gave me a a visual understanding more of, Scalar energy. Honestly, the the easiest way for Scalar to be understood is with phase conjugate way pairing is if you pay put two subs facing each other, the and and at the exact same outputs, they cancel each other out. You won't hear the subs pass the subs.
• 6:17
  It's a really interesting phenomenon.
• 6:19
  Roland: The collision of the sound frequency essentially nullify the effects of both of
• 6:23
  Michael: them. Right.
• 6:24
  Roland: Right. Beyond the containment of where they're Right.
• 6:26
  Michael: So they say energy can't be created or destroyed, but it can be transformed or transformed, reshaped. What is it? What's another good word for that? Like Transmuted? Transmuted.
• 6:39
  Transmuted. Yeah. That's the word I was really looking for. So when you understand that you can sit there and you can hear the sub coming out and when you move, it's actually gone or is it gone or is it's it's been changed into something. Mhmm.
• 6:50
  It's really fascinating with that. And then you can actually flip subs to face backwards and forwards and change the polarity. And it literally it almost looks like a torus when you actually look at the forms. It shapes the audio from the back to the front. So the sub act again, the sub frequencies aren't going in the back way.
• 7:07
  They're all going forward. So it's again, reshaping the way audio moves. And I learned a lot from I got really, really passionate about speakers after hearing a bunch of really good speakers like Function one, TurboSound. Was like, oh my god. This is audio.
• 7:20
  And so I went out and I bought some speakers, scrubbed forums for months, just read everything, learned everything. You learn about resistance and ohms and all these different ways you can deploy speakers and the timing. So most people don't realize this, but you have a high frequency, mid frequency, low frequency, and then typically a mid low frequency in a good system. The timing is is really crucial. So they all need to reach the, say, your the human ear at the same time.
• 7:44
  And no one ever really thinks about it. So, like, you put a sub in the middle of the room and your highs and mids are 10 feet away. The sound isn't synced up and untrained ear doesn't hear that. But this is where you get this the weird effects of it doesn't quite sound right or it's, you know, there's a bunch of
• 7:59
  Roland: different Like a distortion maybe or
• 8:01
  Michael: It's not really distortion. It's it's you're out of sync. Okay. So you want all of them to reach the ear at the same all these frequency ranges to reach the ear at the same time. So speaker placement and then signal processing.
• 8:11
  So signal processing is really fascinating too because you can isolate which frequencies are coming out of each speaker. So your low frequencies are obviously gonna come out of your sub, but just your 30 hertz to a 150 hertz, and then it goes up there from there. And what what happens is the speaker is driving these frequencies as specific. So separation of sound, but when they reach you, it's all together. So most subs are actually only made to support those frequencies.
• 8:37
  Most highs are only you can't put a sub frequency through a high frequency driver. That's what's called a high frequency driver. So it became really fascinating. Learning the different ways you could place speakers to get an optimal sound range, I just completely nerded out on it and ended up getting my final training with one of the top funk function one installers. And then I was like, okay, I know everything.
• 8:57
  I literally have this old turbo sound system set up in a warehouse one night. This guy goes, I just went and toured all these these sound systems in Chicago at the biggest nightclubs. How does your sound system sound better? I'm like, well, I just really know the science of sound. It doesn't matter if the speakers are one thing, but the science of sound is a whole another thing.
• 9:15
  From the amps to the processing, to the placement, there's a whole science to the way audio is conveyed to a crowd, especially a crowd, because you're dealing with extremely loud speakers.
• 9:25
  Roland: And it sounds like what you're after there is coherence among the frequencies to optimize the experience of what the person hears.
• 9:32
  Michael: Right? You wanna feel everything
• 9:34
  Roland: Yeah.
• 9:34
  Michael: And hear everything, but not be bombarded by it. And that's the biggest problem you go to a concert nowadays is you're you literally need earplugs. It hurts. It hurt it literally physically hurts some of these sound systems, and you're just like, oh, it sounds so loud. And people are like, oh, it sounds it's it's it's so loud.
• 9:49
  Like, yeah, but it doesn't sound good. People literally be, like, excited that it sounds loud. And nightclub owners will be like, turn it up. It needs to be louder. It's like, no.
• 9:56
  It was fine how it was. You don't need it louder. Trust me. But there's like, no. Louder is better.
• 10:01
  Roland: Well, there's so much that's going on with the body that is interacting with those frequencies because it can actually stress the nervous system out. Mhmm. A certain amount of frequency in decibels, not good for the ear. Beyond one twenty, one thirty, that's hearing loss of high from my understanding, you lose the high pitch frequencies first, then you start to lose everything over time.
• 10:19
  Michael: Yeah. And being in that industry, I I wasn't good at sticking stuff in my ears. All of my DJ friends have hearing problems. What? Yeah.
• 10:27
  Exactly. No. They have tinnitus. They have really bad ringing. They're like, you don't have that?
• 10:31
  I'm like, no. By some miracle, the only thing I can think of is the EE system.
• 10:34
  Roland: Honestly, helps. Yeah. It helps.
• 10:35
  Michael: The only thing I I'm like, the only thing I did that you guys didn't do was energy wellness at EE system because we've obviously noticed a lot of people with tinnitus having positive results. But yeah. I mean, audio was fun. And then, you know, commanding dance floors as a DJ was a lot of fun. And there wasn't a whole lot of life lessons in that.
• 10:54
  It being a musician's fun. But the touring sucks. I hated touring. And travel traveling as both an EE system person and a DJ person is like being in a hotel room by yourself sucks.
• 11:06
  Roland: Or you're just on the road perpetually.
• 11:08
  Michael: Yeah. It's it's it drags on. There's no, like, rest or relaxation when you're touring. So I I yeah. See these touring artists, I'm like, oh man, these guys must be miserable.
• 11:17
  Their social media is like, oh yeah, I'm playing this gig. It's so exciting. That's, you know, the the Fabrication. Two hours of the day they're excited. And that's why a lot of them switch to drugs and alcohol and have depression and different mental issues is because they're portraying this happiness and this dopamine rush constantly, but most of the day they're just on a plane rushing to a hotel room or an airplane or to shower before a gig.
• 11:40
  People are constantly trying to you know put drugs in in your mouth or up your nose, which again was one of the things I enjoyed coming out of the scene. Was like, the amount of times I turn around and someone's trying to stick stuff up my nose is like, calm down everyone.
• 11:53
  Roland: Forcibly against your will without asking for this?
• 11:55
  Michael: Well, you I don't know what happened. No. But it was constantly there and, you know, I I I definitely did drugs at many points in my life and quit just as many points as every time I did
• 12:06
  Roland: Mhmm.
• 12:06
  Michael: Cocaine. I'm like, I'm never doing this again. Of course, that happened more than once. But it's a terrible drug. I don't understand why it's so popular.
• 12:13
  I keep talking, the only thing cocaine is good for is snapping you out of being blackout drunk. Past that, it's just a really bad hangover.
• 12:18
  Roland: Well, it's not too dissimilar to why people doomscroll. Right? You're playing with dopamine. That's what cocaine really does. It floods the brain with dopamine.
• 12:27
  And I don't think anyone does it believing it's gonna move the needle forward, let's say, like a psychedelic experience will.
• 12:33
  Michael: Right.
• 12:33
  Roland: But there's such an addictive property to dopamine in the brain that once it's low, you'll do anything to get it back.
• 12:40
  Michael: That that's probably part of it.
• 12:41
  Roland: Physiologic thing. And, you know, people associate things with unconscious associations with events. Like, oh, we used to do this together, and this makes it better. I think it's a fallacy of
• 12:52
  Michael: It's a it's a weird social drug. It's just everywhere, and people are, I think Hollywood probably made it, you know, more popular than it should be. It's just everywhere in the night nightlife scene. So it was a really nice getting away from that from the music scene. But, know, from 16 on, I was both learning to DJ and going through that and helping my mom run EE system, which became more prevalent, know, early twenties where I really took control of managing EE system more.
• 13:20
  Mhmm. Obviously, growing up with her was fascinating because she's just a fascinating person. You know, grew up with her teaching people hands on energy healing on the nude black sand beaches of Hawaii. It was part of her process is, you know, shed your clothing and go swimming Shed
• 13:35
  Roland: ego and get out of the earth.
• 13:37
  Michael: Yeah. So it was like around a bunch of crazy naked people as a kid. It was kind of fun. Not really knowing what that was when I was a kid, but growing up I'm like, oh, man.
• 13:45
  Roland: It's called normal to you.
• 13:46
  Michael: Right? Yeah. It was well, it's Hawaii. We were in Puna or Hilo side of Hawaii and super hippie culture over there. So everyone's just kind of free love, free world.
• 13:56
  Yeah. But the beaches were beautiful and it was interesting, you know, watching people release their trauma. It sounded like, you know, murder is happening when she's doing hands on body work for people. So they're like literally learning from her how to traverse the body itself. Yeah.
• 14:12
  Yeah.
• 14:12
  Roland: I'm really hoping that she will continue to pass some of that stuff on because everyone knows her for creating the tech, but she has so much more in her arsenal just than simply creating the tech.
• 14:24
  Michael: No. Her her history is she knows the human body in and out. Energetically, physically, spiritually. That's that's her passion was the human body growing up and obviously evolved in the EE system which, know, her whole mission was, well, I can only touch one person at a time and I can only train so many people. How do we get this to this this energy wellness concept to the world?
• 14:43
  Obviously, you need technology to modernize it.
• 14:46
  Roland: Did you always know that you wanted to get into the health energy space as your mission here? Because, you know, you said DJing is fun, and I listened to what you were saying. And the thing that came to me was you learn the science of music through math and and frequencies. And we'll get into a little bit more because you know math, you know finance really well. But you saw the effect of frequency on people when you're playing music.
• 15:07
  Right? Yeah. Like, what did you see there? Because I wanna get another question of how you're merging these two. When you would play music for people, did you notice that behaviors would be massively influenced instantaneously?
• 15:19
  Did you notice people's lives would get better? Did you use specific frequencies on people trying to get an outcome that was beneficial?
• 15:26
  Michael: Well, let's talk about this frequency specific concept in wellness to start. First off, there is no singular frequency really of anything. So they say, you know, frequency of love, whatever.
• 15:39
  Roland: Five two eight, four three two, the little sine wave generator things.
• 15:43
  Michael: I absolutely hate that because let's talk about love. Okay. Does love feel like a singularity? No. It feels like a sea of emotion and feeling.
• 15:53
  Cannot be a single linear
• 15:56
  Roland: Between two, three numbers
• 15:57
  Michael: that are hertzeeing, yeah. It cannot. And so that drives me nuts when people do this frequency specific stuff. Is there some benefit? Possibly.
• 16:05
  Is that a good definition? I think that's terrible. Like reading the world's best book or seeing the best movie, and someone says, I want you to explain in detail what you just felt or saw, and you just say, good.
• 16:20
  Roland: That's a great way of relating it.
• 16:22
  Michael: Yeah. It's just so linear. So simple overly simplistic. So did I free play specific frequencies? Absolutely not.
• 16:32
  Years of listening to music, I as a musician, wanted my goal was to make people dance. It wasn't to make them have an emotional release on the dance floor even though that could happen through moving body, you know. There's there's actually a really fascinating thing. The vagus nerve stimulation on with electronic music is they're coming out with these big speakers are actually stimulating the vagus nerve and helping people stay younger. So I was like, oh, that's fascinating.
• 16:57
  Because if you stay in the party scene and you don't get dragged down with drugs and alcohol too bad, you almost like don't age. It's
• 17:04
  Roland: also for a living. There's something about doing something fun that you're so passionate about if you can find
• 17:09
  Michael: Well, no. No. No. Just about in general in the crowd. Oh, you're There's an anti aging effect to the physio physical sound waves coming through loud PA speakers are stimulating the vagus nerve, which is really fascinating.
• 17:19
  Roland: Regardless of the music being played.
• 17:21
  Michael: Well, I'm sure there's, you know, okay. So we'll go back to the frequency side. So the beats per minute, or how fast the music is being played, I think correlates significantly to good and bad music on the health spectrum. I don't think we usually go above a 132 beats per minute for most genres. I think the sweet spot is depending on the time and what's going on, anywhere from one twenty to one twenty eight.
• 17:46
  Those are the that's typically the range I would play in, and it would it would change based off of the song and the atmosphere. So you've really become an empath and intuitive with a dance floor too, because you're watching people's movement, you're you know, seeing where they're feeling. So you really have to pay attention to what's going on in front of you because a lot of DJs will just put their eyes down and play your set. And some they get away with that. Most of them just because they have a big name.
• 18:09
  They can play whatever. Everyone's super shit faced. I always I wasn't a huge name DJ most of my life, I had to like fine tune and like, alright, I'm gonna grab that person and grab that person with this song and that person that try and hook them in. But for me, it was resonance. And I figured out listening to music, there were songs that sounded good.
• 18:27
  And then I use this term, songs that had booty. Booty. Booty. That's just a term I came up with. It had booty.
• 18:32
  And the booty was a song that made you shake your like wiggle your butt a little. That's where the booty Okay. Yeah. Because there's lots of songs that sound good, but good luck dancing to them. Mhmm.
• 18:43
  Then there's the booty track. It's typically got the percussion. It's got these weird little hooks where you you just got sucked into wanting to dance.
• 18:50
  Roland: You just
• 18:50
  Michael: have to move. So I always figured out these songs that had booty in them. And then I also I always considered the conscious side of the music. So you I wasn't playing things that had negative context Mhmm. Which was really easy in electronic music, because most of it was very positively intended.
• 19:04
  But then I would also I was well known for pulling in Middle Eastern melodies. I thought they had a lot of resonance that brought in that tribalism of dancing in the desert Mhmm. And out in nature kind of thing. And most of my places I was playing were actually outdoor events. So I tried to find organic sounds with the electronic sounds that were symbiotic and certain vocals that would kinda give you a head rush.
• 19:27
  So, like, sometimes people would be like, man, like, your music act it's like being on drugs without being on drugs. And I'm like, it's kinda the point. Like, trying to make you give you a rush, like a feeling. So there was a lot it was a lot of it was resonance and feeling. That's that's how I I kind of translated what, like, what I was gonna play.
• 19:44
  Roland: And and if you extrapolate that and look at it through a lens of health, you were trying to help people experience these things without the detriments of putting things in But their also you're trying to touch into their souls a little bit. And I'll explain what I mean. We live in our heads in the Western world so much, everything's a thought process and the mind just constantly runs. And I think people have a hard time feeling their bodies. They have a hard time getting in touch with body consciousness
• 20:12
  Michael: They and self have a time getting out
• 20:14
  Roland: of
• 20:14
  Michael: their head.
• 20:15
  Roland: Yeah. Yeah. Which is an inverse way of saying, yeah. They don't get into their bodies very often. And if you can teach people to do that through whatever catalyst, you know, your mom was doing it through hands on healing, your medium was music.
• 20:28
  Michael: Yeah.
• 20:28
  Roland: You were helping people in that. And I think it's having heard that story, I understand how music connects you to the EE system now in terms of the capacity of carryover.
• 20:39
  Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:40
  Roland: If that makes sense.
• 20:40
  Michael: Yeah. No. It's funny too because I was always an artist as a kid, drawing, painting. I liked creating art. And then I found music.
• 20:48
  Ended up buying a pair of turntables off this buddy of mine for like $50. He was about ready to throw him away. And then I started buying vinyl and playing and I was like, it was just such a good feeling control and manipulate music, and which just evolved more and more music production. There you know, there's no doubt that anyone on this planet can say that music isn't important to them. Because you the first thing you do, you get in your car, is you don't want silence, typically.
• 21:09
  You wanna hear something. And a lot of people will go to music from their childhood or they'll have these ranges of music that brought happiness to them or they'll want something new to try and find a new like sensation. Music is very much a drug. Mhmm. It's and it's frequency, energy, and vibration.
• 21:24
  It is. It's everything you're getting. Sound healing is a thing. A lot of people poo poo it. But when you are super upset and you listen to some angry music, all of a sudden, it's like therapy for some people.
• 21:34
  I had that when I was younger. Was I listened like Lincoln Park or something when I was upset, I'd be like, strangely, I feel better. Dance music is that get you out of your head, start moving your body, flow kind flow state. Like, when you're dancing, you're not thinking about what's wrong in the world. You're just enjoying being there in the moment, which was one of the prettiest things about the dance scene was just watching people let go.
• 21:56
  So much so that some people would get naked on the dance floor, which was always entertaining.
• 22:00
  Roland: Brings you back to the beaches Of Hawaii. See how things come full circle.
• 22:04
  Michael: I've had a few different times where I'm like DJing. Oh, they took off their shirt. Okay. It's always a guy, strangely. And right in front of me, this happened, like, four or five times.
• 22:13
  I I shit you not. I'm like, I'm mixing music. I'm like, oh, god. Took a shirt off. Yeah.
• 22:17
  It's warm out, whatever. And then the next thing, pants are off. He's wearing underwear. Okay. Butt naked.
• 22:21
  Alright. We got a butt naked guy on the dance floor.
• 22:25
  Roland: The only other time you can get that experience probably even cheaper is go to a change room at a fitness facility, and they're usually 65 plus, and they're just happily walking around naked all the time.
• 22:35
  Michael: No, mean you see some topless girls every once in a while shaking their their booty but those are the fun thing about playing the underground like rave scene is it was kind of a no holds barred like club scenes. It's not really about a vibe, it's about a ego. So I always enjoy the rave culture because you go to a club and it's people trying to seem self important. They're taking photos or Mhmm. There's like, hey, we're cool and we're out and we're doing loads of cocaine and we have bottle service.
• 22:59
  The rave scene was, you know, less bottle service if any. More of just a culture of people like, we're gonna go out and we're gonna dance. There's no and then you go to these the Vegas nightclubs, the dance floor is like this big. It's a little square in the middle surrounded by tables and, you know, people are dancing at the tables. There's no community in underground rave scenes.
• 23:16
  You have a thousand people just raging on one giant big dance floor. These smaller ones, couple 100 people. But it's it's a beautiful thing to watch. There's there's a a synchronicity that occurs with a lot of humans when they're all dancing the same beat, which I find fascinating because they're all moving to one beat in unity. It it's a replication of that old tribalism of the tribes dancing around the fire to the same percussion.
• 23:38
  The oppressionists are percussioning and they're dancing while they're they're doing that. Yeah. Everyone else is dancing around them. It's a community oneness event. You really only get that in the rave culture.
• 23:48
  Roland: That's so interesting because as you were talking about that, that word was coming through to me. There's there's like a tribalism about what you're doing. And personally speaking, I've never been drawn because I'm like you, I'm quite introverted. Big crowds of people are kinda like Yeah. But I've never looked at it in the way that you just proposed it.
• 24:06
  And it's really about creating coherence momentarily because the beat is underpinning the behavior, so to speak. And then all of a sudden everyone becomes one temporarily in that moment of everyone swaying to the music. And it's interesting that you say one twenty five to one twenty eight. Was that the range?
• 24:24
  Michael: One twenty to one twenty eight. But, yeah, it was, like, dependent on the time of the day and warm up.
• 24:29
  Roland: What's interesting, and this is just tangential, but you might find it interesting. That's the rough heart rate range where they found that the greatest cardiovascular benefits from exercise are for the average person because they do about 60 to 70% of their max heart rate. If you can stay there, it improves circulation, cardiovascular health,
• 24:49
  Michael: stroke volume.
• 24:51
  Roland: So it's just so interesting how math comes back to it all. Like there's numbers. And when people listen to music, they're not just hearing the music. They're imbibing the music. Like it's hitting every cell in the body.
• 25:03
  It's structuring the water inside of them. It's influencing the nervous system communication, the regulation of the vagal tone, as you said. Mhmm. So it's just a different form of energy healing. I'm seeing how it all connects into you now running the company itself, like running the EE system.
• 25:22
  Has that been an easy transition for you? Do you find that it's so different that you felt a little bit out of your depth, or did it feel like I've done what I needed to do in music, I'm ready to actually grow myself in more of a left brain way, but still doing something that connects to my mission.
• 25:38
  Michael: Well, being a musician is a young person thing too. So you have lots of energy and free more free time. Mhmm. And I was kinda on the way out before I met my ex girlfriend. She's a violinist.
• 25:50
  And I was kinda like, I don't know if I still wanna do this. It's, you know, I'm getting too old for this kinda And then we we did that. And once we broke up, both as a boyfriend girlfriend and a musician, I kinda was like, you know what? I think I am done now. But that's also as the EE system started to get really busy.
• 26:04
  And during our relationship, it kinda wore on us because I had work to do, and she wanted to do more music stuff. And I was just like, I I literally have a real job. Not to say musician is a real job, but it's not a very well paying job. It's it's a passion project, for most musicians. Most musicians don't make a lot of money.
• 26:22
  But I had a mission that I subscribed to with my mother. It's like when I grew up, I was next to her, I agreed to pretty much help her on a soul contract kind of way. From very young age, I told her I'm here to protect you, like, you know, like five or six. We joke about that story sometimes, and that's all that's basically I'm here to protect her and her mission. And so she obviously comes first.
• 26:43
  And the EE system is a huge global project that is very important to a lot of people from my perspective and a lot of people would probably say that as well. So transitioning from music, it was a great learning experience, a great fun experience. It felt really good. And do I miss it sometimes? A little.
• 27:01
  But it takes a lot of time and energy to be a well practiced musician. Like, even as a DJ, you have to know all your music. There's a lot of to do, a lot of practice. And yes, I could get back on that bike and start riding it, so to speak. But I don't have the time right now.
• 27:14
  There's so many other things going on that probably help humanity more. And there's so many DJs out there. Some of them are very amazing. So I can't say that we're at lacking good artists. So I'm filling the gap that I need to fill, which is run this company.
• 27:28
  And
• 27:29
  Roland: it's when people hear family business and they think second generation or whatever, it's like, you just moseyed on in to a place of high ranking within a company, but you didn't do that. You have literally done all the installs. You've been on the road. You know every single inch of the business. Like what was it like growing up in something that nobody understood?
• 27:50
  Michael: Well, it's a fun fun story. So I was living with my father and my mom had moved to Colorado. I was still with him in Hawaii. That ended and I moved back to my mother's. And I'd seen her developing the technology through younger years in small ways.
• 28:06
  The first big actually fully built system was when I actually moved back around the age 16, fifteen sixteen to Colorado. And I remember walking into this room and you know, it's a bunch of broken computer screens and I'm just like, alright mom, what are you doing? And you know, I probably thought she was crazy at the time. I was like, yep. There's my mom doing weird weird blonde lady stuff again.
• 28:28
  And but then, you know, people would come in and they'd have these miraculous experiences and be like, oh my god. And, you know, this this is groundbreaking and people would wanna do some research. And slowly, I went from a crazy concept to, okay, we have something here that she's doing and it's fascinating. And, you know, it's it it took a lot of years for the general public to think of it as a non woo woo thing. And it was a slow, slow, slow, slow process.
• 28:57
  Mhmm. Because anyway even now, people look at oh, you go, it must be a placebo, whatever, which we've validated. It's not a placebo. But doing research, running, starting a tech company on a shoestring budget with a family, that's groundbreaking to the point of where it's too crazy to be real, and then it moves to, I can't believe this is real. And then, oh my god, this is real to a lot of people.
• 29:20
  To, you know, there's obviously a bunch of naysayers out there that will still stick to, I'm just gonna go to a doctor and get pills and energy medicine and wellness is is all foo foo, color therapy is fake. However you want to deploy the the that that left brain thinking.
• 29:35
  Roland: Yeah. Things that I can't measure can't be real, so therefore I don't ascribe to them being anything.
• 29:40
  Michael: Yeah. And you ask that same person to describe anything. How you're how does your phone receive single? And be like, the WiFi tower, how does that work? None of these people know how anything works, but they're quick to say that doesn't work.
• 29:51
  Mhmm. It's fascinating. The light bulb's the best analogy of that. It's like, well, how do you know that light bulb's working? Well, there's light.
• 29:58
  Exactly. But how does the science work? Oh, I I Electricity. Well, how does electricity It's, you know, it's it's fun fun fun to throw these things out because people think they're so smart. But most people these days are so conveniently ignorant to everything that exists, but they know to shove food in their mouth, consume TV and media, and go do whatever the the Matrix says to do, but then, you know, you provide an original thought and they they fight the original thought because it's unique it's too unique.
• 30:28
  It doesn't fit the box. Oh my god.
• 30:32
  Roland: People tend to not like to feel that they're out of their depth with things.
• 30:37
  Michael: Mhmm.
• 30:37
  Roland: And in modern society, everyone has an opinion. And I don't think people know how to disseminate opinion and fact. And when you ask them about facts and they can't answer and that challenges them, they get emotional.
• 30:50
  Michael: They do.
• 30:50
  Roland: And they wanna fight for their position. And I can only imagine the challenges that you've had with people trying to tell you all of the things about things that I mean, there's no diagnostics that can go, this is doing exactly this in the body. And that's the hard part about energy medicine as a field. There are people who try to capitalize upon things. They want to hustle a buck.
• 31:12
  They want to make a device to jump on a bandwagon. But not only are they not actually doing something beneficial, potentially knowingly, they don't even understand what they're actually trying to do. Because how would you define energy medicine knowing all that you've known? Like, how do you even relate that to someone who has no idea what they're talking about?
• 31:29
  Michael: You know, it it takes a lot of patience to understand things. What you're saying of people kind of being quick to judge, and and how do how would I combat that or just absorb that. It's it's really just patience. Mhmm. Because you have to, instead of arguing with them, you you just kinda engage with them and have a conversation.
• 31:47
  And you try not to press too many buttons where they freak out and run away or argue with you harder. But energy wellness is a by the fruits you know kind of industry. So at first, you're you're looking at testimonials. It's it's your let your your lettuce study where you're showing that the lettuce grew faster kind of thing. So it's visual.
• 32:06
  Is is there science to lettuce growing faster? I mean, it's arguable. It's like, it grew faster.
• 32:11
  Roland: It's an anagogical thing.
• 32:13
  Michael: Yeah. So but you you're seeing when you see a long succession of this is doing the right thing. Our industry is full of copycats and snake oil. I've had a lot of people say, in an industry 95% saturated with snake oil, you're in the 5%, which is rare. And, you know, the only way we really can combat that is holding a higher standard of truth and met meteorology or metrics.
• 32:36
  Obviously, we have decades of that, and most people ignore the fact that our research page has, like, 30 white papers on it. They, well, you guys need more studies. It's like, did you read the other studies before you ask for we're in the middle of doing a placebo double blind study, which is great because it's like the last tick box of nonsense for and people will still argue, I'm sure. But there's there's meteorology. So you have a lot of people I mean, the amount of times I've gone out and people handed me my my own research and marketing material to sell something that's Scalar, it's it's unfathomable.
• 33:07
  People steal all of our verbiage, which you know, it's a nice I guess, it's good to know that we're so awesome that everyone's stealing our stuff while it's like flattery you know. Imitation is the highest
• 33:18
  Roland: form of flattery that old saying.
• 33:19
  Michael: Exactly. So it's kind of flattering I guess, but when you're out selling snake oil and you're using the same terminology as that we spent years developing, it makes it harder for us to break through and get to people because everyone's just now associating that terminology to snake oil. So it it it it sucks a little. It hurts a little, especially when someone's literally, you know, trying to take something that is your passion, your industry, and your creation and slap a new sticker on it, whether that's a literal sticker or a close to sticker. But if there was something let's it would be theoretical.
• 33:56
  If there's something that looked exactly like this technology and they had absolutely no metrics or meteorology or if they did have something, it was really weak and probably bought and paid for. And but it's cheaper and better somehow and upgraded in these weird terms. Would you go buy that or would you go with the one that's been around for a really long time and has a reputation? Unfortunately, lot of people aren't that smart and they'll be like, oh, it's the same and cheaper because they use the same terminology. It's like, well, I mean, you could buy a Ferrari or you buy a Ferrari kit car that's got a lawnmower engine in it.
• 34:26
  And, yeah, you might drive down the road at five miles per hour and look really cool, but you are not hitting zero to 60 in in under four seconds.
• 34:36
  Roland: Yeah. But it's the illusion and and that's it's stuff like that in addition to my belief that people are just not primed to understand things that are so abstract that give the industry of energy medicine its woo woo like moniker because people can't jump on something that they can't hold experience in a way that they can understand it intrinsically in a very short period of time. You know, you can't feel an EMF unless you're very hypersensitive. True. It does not mean that you're chronically being bombarded by EMFs.
• 35:14
  And then if that person in that environment all of a sudden develops an illness, they're looking for the things that are obvious. Oh, was it what I ate? Was it, you know, the water I was drinking? Was it the stress at work?
• 35:25
  Michael: Maybe It's everything.
• 35:26
  Roland: That's the problem. And people don't understand that energy medicine tools are not taking a supplement in the same way that they're going to affect the body. It's not a diet change. It's not an aspect of exercise where you're having this tangible outcome that has some degree of communication and feedback. You're influencing the body on a subtle level over the course of time and society because for whatever reasons, people who sell things like pharmaceuticals or various other highly profitable tools, that's bad for their business model.
• 35:58
  And they'll see that in people's consciousness and they go, it's it's obviously bullshit. It's obviously not real.
• 36:04
  Michael: Well, people people don't think about wellness as a holistic life experience. They think of it as a reactive oh shit button. Yeah. And that's the problem. And I I applaud RFK, like let's you know, make America healthy again.
• 36:18
  Because he's trying to go back to the old model. In the fifties, we didn't have a lot of obese people because they had calisthenics, they had healthier food, they had some knowledge base of like what to to do and what not to do, it turned into a a big boy conglomerate of let's just make profits huge. Became overly capitalistic, so the processed foods went up, The quality of all the foods, the regulations dropped, we're just getting shit diets, then people are encouraged to not work out. I I don't I don't know if they're still making people do PE in school these days, but seems like most people just continually get fatter in America. And not because they're stressed out or they have a good reason, like, you know, it's just because they're lazy and no one's pushing them to actually work out, and then they they develop some sort of disease.
• 37:03
  And then they go, oh, well, I need to go to the doctor. And so the entire western culture of wellness is sick care. Mhmm. And it's been designed that way from childhood. I mean, you have ADHD medications being given to people who are are 18, and it's like, why why would you give amphetamines to a child?
• 37:22
  I can't figure that out. Maybe just remove the sugar from their diet. Maybe focus on a few things before you start literally pumping them full of pharmaceuticals that are gonna degrade the brain's chemistry. And and then, obviously, if you're taking amphetamines when you're young, your body's gonna have trouble with metabolism later in life too. So, you know, you're gonna tap out every every resource in your body just so they can get through school?
• 37:45
  Like, it makes no sense to me. So if we actually took a proactive state in America or in all of the West where we're making sure there's healthier foods, there's a some sort of calisthenics, some sort of stretching, some sort of cardiovascular exercise program that people are are taught young, like you should do this and then they get into it. Some sort of level of sports. Instead, we have video games and doom scrolling. It's lit more which a mental workout at least with, you know, video games to a certain extent.
• 38:14
  You're learning reactive timing. But unless they're playing Dance Dance Revolution, no one's actually getting physically healthy anymore. So we we really need to condition people to understand that we're not supposed to be reactive. We're supposed to be proactive. And if people went to energy wellness modalities like EE system, red light therapy, saunas, on a routine basis, let's just say once a week, twice a week, something, something to facilitate the body's general well-being.
• 38:45
  The fact if you if we created that societally, people would be getting sick because they'd be doing the maintenance. And you say energy, wellness, and and supplements in a kind of same range. No. I don't I don't I've never taken vitamin c, vitamin e, d, or any supplement other than a pre workout or a nighttime sleep supplement that actually make me feel any different. But when I get my blood work done and they say my b 12 is too high, that I know, reduce my b 12.
• 39:10
  I don't know any difference in that. Or my vitamin d levels are bad. Maybe I feel a little bit better when I've been in the sun, especially low low immune function. Like, I've just gotten sick. By the way, if you've ever gotten a cold or flu and you go stand outside in the sun for ten minutes, it's mind boggling
• 39:26
  Roland: how much better you feel. So much better.
• 39:28
  Michael: But most supplements you don't feel. It's, you there are very few supplements you actually feel. Well, I guess beta alanine is gonna make you pretty red and tingly.
• 39:36
  Roland: Caffeine you'll feel.
• 39:37
  Michael: Caffeine. Caffeine's not a supplement though. Oh, some people I
• 39:40
  Roland: mean, it can't kinda is. This that's a very good point. Supplements are not high impact experiences, but people have been conditioned to take them because they know it's good for them. They don't need to fight that. I hope society gets there with energy medicine because what you're saying I could not agree with more.
• 39:58
  Even people that come to the EE system as their last ditch effort. They've gone to every professional under the sun. No one can cure them of their condition disease ailment. So they're just basically throwing a Hail Mary in their own life and going, well, I'll just try this because it's it's the last option left.
• 40:13
  Michael: And I hate that people do that too because while we have a lot of miracle stories of people having great effects with that.
• 40:18
  Roland: That part is beautiful but it hurts the culture of the industry because when you use something as a last resort, no one really thinks the last resort has all that much potential because it is by definition the last resort. It's because of the culture that we bring to it. We as a culture are reactive. We don't do things until there's something wrong. And oftentimes for people, if that something wrong happens in the fifth or the sixth decade of life, it's been developing for two or three decades prior to the symptom showing itself.
• 40:50
  Yeah. And if we can start to shift the culture with people to understand that energy medicine is not meant to be an emergency patch. The only emergency patch that is useful in the medical system is when an accident happens and you actually go to the hospital to prevent yourself from dying. Car accident, I'm not going to the herbalist. You know, I have a staph infection as much as I wouldn't want to.
• 41:11
  Give me the antibiotics because it's better than death. Stitch me up if I cut myself open. But everything else happens as a slow erosion. And in saying that
• 41:19
  Michael: Can can we make fun of the urine therapy people now? If I got shot with a bullet, should I just pee on it?
• 41:24
  Roland: 100%. Bullet and jellyfish. Those are the two things that do that. But but but you see what so this is a perfect example. Someone would rather do urine therapy than try an energy technology because in their mind, this makes more sense.
• 41:38
  Michael: Don't forget
• 41:38
  Roland: to ferment it. The ancient Egyptians did it. But you know, what do you think society needs to normalize the use of energy medicine tools that are actually effective? Like what's gonna be the critical mass in people's minds where they stop fighting it because of ignorance or because of what's called historical continuity? All that stuff never works.
• 42:01
  Therefore, it's never gonna work.
• 42:03
  Michael: Well, you have it on both sides. So you have alternative community who refuse to take pharmaceuticals. So you're always gonna have a divide. You have the left and the right politically. There's, you know, there there's always someone who has a preference and it tends to be family and cultural perspective or just brainwashing because they watch too much television which is literally bought and paid for by certain groups of people who control industries.
• 42:26
  Energy wellness is already probably way big. Like, I grew up in this industry and watching it grow is fascinating because it's like leaps and bounds. Once co COVID hit, Everyone like was throwing up giant middle fingers to the pharmaceutical industry because they just shoved something down their throat. Or in their Yeah. Literally in their arms.
• 42:48
  That was marketed as safe and effective and it it didn't show any very good efficacy and now the safety studies are coming out and showing that it really wasn't that safe. And people are still arguing, well, sure it was safe. I'm still alive. I'm like, there's a lot of people out there that died because of complications that occurred after that.
• 43:07
  Roland: But people don't wanna also look at what they're trying to avoid to see their own face in the mirror of ignorance. A lot of the times people would rather be what's the other thing? They'd rather be bright than happy.
• 43:17
  Michael: Well, everyone's looking for the quick fix too. They want the easy mode. So shot in the arm is quick, pill in the mouth is quick. Going to an EE system, you know, a couple hours out of the day, which ironically, a lot of our systems are in private homes around beds. So people don't have to take time out of their their day and they consider it their their their wellness insurance.
• 43:35
  Roland: Mhmm.
• 43:36
  Michael: You know, you can have all the money in the world, but if you have no health, you have no wealth, actual wealth.
• 43:41
  Roland: Mhmm.
• 43:42
  Michael: So ironically, it's a lot of more wealthy eccentric people that are live like, there's hey, I made all this money. I need to make sure I stick around to spend it. It sucked to be like Steve Jobs where you worked your entire life, ground super hard, and then just collapsed.
• 43:57
  Roland: Journey of the soul. Right?
• 43:58
  Michael: Yeah. But I know what
• 43:59
  Roland: you mean. It's society does need to shift its perspectives because in other parts of the world where energy medicine was kind of made to walk in in tandem or in unison with biochemical based medicines, they use these things on a regular basis. And it's probably dropped off a little bit because again it becomes kind of a moment in time. Like I have had some some clients who are Russian and I've used some energy wellness devices and like, oh, I used to make fun of my grandma for going to the spa and using that thing. I'm like, well
• 44:30
  Michael: Well now they're using it.
• 44:32
  Roland: They do now, but there's been some wisdom lost along the way because things have taken over. And and I'm really hoping that energy wellness is gonna be something that people start to include as not an alternative to things we've been talking about. There's always going be a place for a medical professional. There's always going to be place for natural health things. But if you include this in your wellness program, not only is it more diverse, it's more well rounded, but it gives you a greater bandwidth of dealing with the modern stresses of life because our life has become so techno technology or technologically driven that I kinda see these things as necessary to offset some of the potential negative downsides
• 45:12
  Michael: No.
• 45:12
  Roland: Mean of
• 45:12
  Michael: what's happening. What what you're saying brings something to mind too is, you know, while this is in centers and homes, sticking in public areas would be amazing. Like, it's in the middle of an airport, so people walking through are catching this this vibe in this field. It's in night clubs countering some of the negative effects of the EMFs, the alcohol, It's in schools. I think that would be profound.
• 45:36
  I mean, we did an ADHD study and it showed the seventy four percent efficacy on the ADHD study. Talk about kids not needing amphetamines. Mean, if we stuck this in schools and kids had more mental capacity, more mental clarity, that would be huge. But if we could get this in the public spaces where it's it's an it's an environmental control system like an air filter more than it is a reactive, thing that you you go out of your way to get to, that would be amazing. I don't know what has to occur in politics or society for something like that to occur, but that's the ideal thing is you create a a healthy atmosphere on a a cultural level level.
• 46:15
  Like, they say smart cities, which is a bad word for it, but that's kind of what I envision is if you built a city actually smart, it would incorporate all the water is is cleaner, all the air is cleaner. All the technology around you has lower EMFs and there's wellness technologies everywhere you go, whether it's sound healing in random areas that that actually are is designed to affect your mood. You're you're wearing those glasses. You could actually cause technology around you, especially with shift out all the lights The harmful blue frequencies You the frequencies of all the lighting on a rail. There's ways to create a city or a living environment that is hyper reactive to creating a hyper healthy person.
• 46:55
  And it all it takes is money, AI, and a knowledge base. I think we have all those today. Unfortunately, more money is being spent on war and dumb shit and corruption than it is on actually helping humanity because we have a lot of greedy people on the planet who just wanna fill their pockets. It's like, don't know how many boats houses you need. So you we can't have public transportation or or good health care, but at a certain point, it has to stop.
• 47:18
  Roland: Well, a cultural shift has to happen. I believe it is happening. Might be underway now, hopefully. Linear time projections, I e living in the three d. The experience of it could take months, years, oftentimes it does.
• 47:31
  But I believe that the notion of you guys becoming as successful as you've been is a really good sign because it shows that even though it may not be global mainstream yet, subcultures when nourished enough can become bigger and bigger and they can just become embedded culture Yeah. In day to day society. So I think it's wonderful. And the thing that I'm I'm really excited about is, we get to know the man behind the mask a little bit. I know I kind of twisted your arm to get in here, but you're leading the charge with your mom.
• 48:02
  And at some point, you know, she'll maybe wanna take a step back and enjoy something. Probably not fully. As I say that, I'm like, I don't don't think that's possible.
• 48:11
  Michael: She will will work and try and help as many people and and do what she does till the day that she passes from this planet because she has trouble sitting still and doing nothing.
• 48:22
  Roland: But I don't know if you feel this, I kinda sense that there's a call to you to be a little bit more public facing, a little bit more as a leader, an advocate, an educator in what it is you do. Because for people to jump on, have to connect to someone and they have to connect to the mission. And I'm I'm happy that we get to learn a little bit more about you because you've done some cool stuff in your life. We didn't even really get into the knowledge of mathematics and finance and the various other aspects of life, but, you know, music was what kind of started this whole thing. And the the merging of art and science started sound Yeah.
• 48:55
  And look where it's taken you.
• 48:57
  Michael: Yeah. No. I mean, pattern recognition and we'll get move on to financial math. I mean, pattern recognition was always fun in in crypto trading and learning the science behind crypto. A lot of people have no idea how it works.
• 49:10
  Just think it's these these fake internet monies. I have tokens. But a breakdown of what crypto is, it's it's a decentralized ledger. And for those not understanding the word ledger, it's a unchangeable record of the calculations of of finance, which is really fascinating. So I got I I always found crypto really fascinating, AI is really fascinating.
• 49:33
  But for a lot of people out there, finance is their least healthy aspect of life, which leads to unhealth in other ways. And I I would tell the general populace, there's no such way as a get rich quick scheme. Because you'll get rich quick and then you lose it all. Yeah. Be Active reactive.
• 49:49
  Like likely due to karma or just ignorance. Learning to invest is extremely important. When it comes to your health, it's extremely important because your health down stress creates cortisol. And, you know, stress creates a lack and then a a resonance of lack. So you really need to figure out how to manage finances.
• 50:11
  So understand what you're bringing in, what you're spending. It's extremely important in business and and in life. Most people are absolutely terrible at that. They go into credit card debt. They're like, oh, I'll just make money later.
• 50:21
  It's like, the party scene was extremely interesting part of that. Because everyone will be constantly out spending all their money on alcohol, drugs, and going to parties, and they would go nowhere in life. Because they're reacting to when's the next big party. So I always found it fascinating how many people get stuck in that loop. And that loop occurs throughout a lot of people in life, where they'd rather self indulge, whether it's video games or partying Mhmm.
• 50:48
  Or meditating even. There's a bunch of people out there that are probably spiritually doing the greatest things, but they're completely out of touch with finance. And finance is circular to society. And the people that complain, oh, it's a capitalist society. Capitalist societies have the the highest rate of happy people.
• 51:04
  Roland: Capitalistic isn't negative by definition. It's assumed that that means negative.
• 51:09
  Michael: Yeah. No. It's it's the greedy side that there's a lot of people out there that will steal, thieve, scam, con, and grift because they they are too lazy to be Malignant honest capitalism. Yeah. And there's a lot of it's it's it's a high percentage of people.
• 51:24
  Mhmm. I wanna say in the Western culture, but globally, there's more people out there that have mastered the art of grifting instead of mastered the art of self sustainability. Mhmm. And so they're instead of figuring out how to build something, they're just trying to figure out how to steal something. And I guess easier to just go rob someone than it is to build a castle.
• 51:45
  I mean, throughout society, you know, land grabs and castle grabs, etcetera. But finances are extremely important. So there's no way of achieving it quickly. Create a platform that a strategy and a platform that that are actually going to facilitate something, whether it's saving. Stocks are highly manipulated.
• 52:05
  Crypto's highly manipulated. Silver and gold is also highly manipulated. But find figuring out learning and figuring out exactly when to buy things and when to hold things long term. Because too many people get into buying, trading, all these things I just mentioned, and then they sell haphazardly on emotion, and then they try to buy back. And by a year's time, they've lost more in their investments than if they would have just held for four or five years.
• 52:32
  So figuring out things that you can purchase and hold long term as an investment is extremely important in general well-being.
• 52:38
  Roland: Do you have any fundamental strategies or tips to teach people how master the art of personal finance or financial literacy because what I've realized, and I've never gone to the depths that you have, but we do have some conversations on, you know, in our personal time together and I love learning from you. The thing I've realized is people don't even know how to look at money. Even know what money actually is. They assume that $20 is worth something. But in modern society, it's basically credit backed debt.
• 53:10
  So how do people learn about how to manage finance if they want to be financially healthy? You
• 53:16
  Michael: have to learn to manage energy.
• 53:17
  Roland: Okay.
• 53:18
  Michael: And you are energy. And right now we're exchanging energy in conversation. So when you start to understand that everything costs energy, there has to be a medium of exchange for a set energy. That's typically either a barter system item or it's cash or whatever form of payment we're we're gonna revert to here.
• 53:37
  Roland: And the grifting, just to add this, that is not a mutual energy exchange benefit. That is one person capitalizing and winning at the expense of the other person losing.
• 53:46
  Michael: Yeah.
• 53:47
  Roland: That's not sustained. That's why you get it quickly, but it can fall apart as quickly because the energy of that is not grounded or rooted in anything. Well, also, have
• 53:55
  Michael: the law of the universe. You can't steal something from someone and the universe doesn't come back around and slap you in the head. For anyone who doesn't understand that, you will learn.
• 54:04
  Roland: Karma is a thing.
• 54:05
  Michael: Karma is a bitch and she has teeth and she will come for you. It'll come for I've seen people do really bad things and get turbo cancer. Like, just crazy things that instant karma can take a while or it can be rather quick.
• 54:18
  Roland: They're getting energy back in.
• 54:19
  Michael: Yeah. Back to energy. So you manage first, start with your own energy. Throughout the day, how much energy are you giving away for free and not getting reciprocated? How much energy are you spending on yourself?
• 54:30
  And this isn't financial energy. This is things so reading is spending energy on yourself. It's beneficial. You're learning. Researching.
• 54:37
  Beneficial to self. Working out, beneficial to self. Going out and doing playing video games is a negative unless you're learning something from it, which can occur. But if you're overindulging in
• 54:50
  Roland: Overindulgence. Yes.
• 54:51
  Michael: Overindulgence in monotonous garbage is a negative investment. Mhmm. And more people spend more time in the day self indulging to nonsense than they do actually trying to learn or achieve something.
• 55:04
  Roland: Mhmm.
• 55:05
  Michael: So you have to manage your energy. Is what I'm doing benefiting me in the long term is the perfect question to ask. Is this a good energy exchange? If you're constantly helping your girlfriend with things and she's nagging at you, that's bad energy exchange. You probably need to find a new girlfriend.
• 55:21
  If she's not raising you up and providing you happiness, time for a new relationship. Unfortunately, this is we live in a society where both sides are trying to take too much from the other side in different ways Yeah. And there's a complete imbalance. So but you shouldn't be trying to have a relationship if you don't have your finances in in in order because at the end of the day, men are the providers, and women, they're they're supposed to bring man happiness. But most women what was all all women are gold diggers.
• 55:49
  Just pick one in in your budget. So it's like, you want a really hot girl, you better you better have some money. If if you want a homely girl and you wanna play video games, I'm sure you can work that out. But most people are are due to the Internet on both sides, male and female. The female are all looking for the six foot, drives a Lambo, has lots of money, but has all the time in the world for her somehow, which does not exist.
• 56:10
  Roland: Also super emotionally open and
• 56:14
  Michael: The whole list.
• 56:14
  Roland: Very allow, yes.
• 56:15
  Michael: The whole
• 56:15
  Roland: And guys, are delusional. They want the Instagram model and they don't wanna
• 56:20
  Michael: take care body count too. Yes. I want a supermodel porn star girl that has only been with one guy. Like, come on. It's unrealistic on all sides.
• 56:29
  You know, I want this saint girl that's gonna cook clean. No. The the we everyone needs to drop their expectations by at least 50% on both sides. But back to energy management. You if you're not building yourself up, then you're going into a negative.
• 56:44
  Mhmm. So you're either doing things that are bringing yourself up, self worth and not ego, having having an ego and thinking you're worth more than you are, also bad energy management. Because now you're wasting time of, I'm important, and I got this cool suit and this watch, hey, I'm cool. You're not cool. You're obnoxious.
• 57:02
  Roland: That's a pretty good bro impression, by the way, there. Like, even your voice changed.
• 57:07
  Michael: Yeah. Yeah. You see a lot of these guys, oh, I'm so important. It's like, sit down, calm down. Like, I walk around looking like half homeless half the time.
• 57:13
  People would never know I have any money until they actually get to know me. It's funny with girls too. As soon as they figure it out, they're like, oh, let's get married. It's like wearing a tank top and shorts. It's a switch.
• 57:23
  It's a literal switch. It's such a trip. And people my sister gives me shit because I I dress like I'm half homeless half the time. I'm like, I'm wearing what's comfortable. Like, I'm not trying to impress anyone.
• 57:32
  Roland: At home with no shoes, going to places, live a beach bum life because that's a way of giving back to you. Because when you can do that also and stop up pretenses, you don't fall prey to things that the ego would
• 57:44
  Michael: put you energy management again too because I'm wearing this nice jacket because I'm on a podcast. Mhmm. Have you ever seen me wear these jackets outside of a podcast?
• 57:52
  Roland: Only when you're walking into the podcast room.
• 57:55
  Michael: Yeah. It's
• 57:56
  Roland: Or at a conference.
• 57:57
  Michael: At a conference. Would I have to be professionally presentable? Yeah. But a lot of people will walk around wearing designer clothes, and they'll go buy these designer things. It's bad bad energy management.
• 58:05
  You're buying things that are a negative investment. So you spent $3 on a purse. Ladies, I'm talking to you. Please stop with expensive purses. $3 on a purse, and maybe the guy bought it for you, so you're considering a net positive.
• 58:17
  But it's someone's energy, and you probably exchanged something one way or another for that energy. So we have a $3,000 purse. As soon as it walks out of the store, it's worth $500 on a secondary market. Doesn't matter really the condition. Maybe there's some exceptions.
• 58:29
  That's negative energy. Why would you buy garbage for x amount of money that it all does hold things? Why do they buy it? Self importance. Self importance is a negative energy transport, and people don't understand.
• 58:42
  Roland: Makes real Externally projected self importance.
• 58:45
  Michael: That was it yeah. I mean
• 58:48
  Roland: I would define it because you can say that I am self important as an individual. And as long as you keep that inside of you to maintain an integrity about yourself.
• 58:56
  Michael: Well, I'll tell you what self importance is. Self importance is being a father or a mother and raising your kids.
• 59:01
  Roland: Exactly.
• 59:01
  Michael: That's self importance. Yes. Being important because you're wearing more designer clothes or have more money things that on that is ego. It's ego importance. It's an it's negative energy.
• 59:11
  Yeah. You're spending time, money, and energy to look a certain way so that people think you're something. Mhmm. You're you're kind of aura farming at the expense of yourself. So you're putting on all this makeup which isn't good.
• 59:22
  It's going into your body. It's bad. For for guys, they're using weird hair products or whatever they're doing to you know, guys are a lot simpler. Women, I got I have a whole laundry list of things you guys do that are disgusting. Nails, no one cares.
• 59:35
  It's toxic to breathe it in. Most of your hair products are toxic. You know, you wonder why you guys are getting breast cancer. It's because you you're constantly putting stuff in and on your body that is made of garbage. I could go on.
• 59:48
  But I think negative energy. Yeah. To look self important, to seem pretty. I mean, there's pretty I love a natural beauty. When you don't need a lot of makeup and you can just look pretty and have a spiritual connected presence and you're grounded, it's beautiful.
• 1:00:01
  Most of these girls that are doing all boob jobs, butt jobs, all this makeup stuff, they're they're empty. There's really no substance there. But I look pretty.
• 1:00:10
  Roland: Like It's like spirit a way.
• 1:00:11
  Michael: I would spend ten ten, fifteen minutes with it in your room. I'm sure it'd be fantastic, and we'd have nothing in common or to talk about after that. Like spiritual grifting.
• 1:00:19
  Roland: It's like spiritual grifting in a way.
• 1:00:21
  Michael: Right?
• 1:00:21
  Roland: Yeah. Because what you're doing is you're investing in things to benefit you as an outcome in this context. And and I'm not saying this exclusively to women. Guys do it too when it comes to the car they have to be seen driving, the clothes they wear.
• 1:00:34
  Michael: Going to death to buy a watch and these fancy shoes and stuff.
• 1:00:37
  Roland: Injecting yourself with anabolics to be really big and muscular. Yeah. And it's all because they can't accept themselves. And I know this conversation started with financial literacy, and I like that we've actually gone deeper to the context of it's about energy management because the self actualization of a person has to come from seeing all the light, all the dark inside of them, not allowing the shadow side of their existence to predominate because people who become financially wealthy and the ones who keep it are also the ones you typically don't know who they are. And what they've done because they're not running around boasting about it to, I had to Google aura farming like half a year ago because some young kid said to me, I'm like, aura farming, what does this mean?
• 1:01:25
  Michael: It's great to
• 1:01:25
  Roland: But they're not doing that because what it is they're doing in their lives, their mission, maybe they're focused on how much they can help other people build themselves up in their life through their own success. That's where financial literacy takes you, but it starts with having an understanding and an awareness that money is energy. And that energy is an extension of you. And if you live in
• 1:01:47
  Michael: place is energy.
• 1:01:48
  Roland: Yeah. Place of lack, you're gonna be lacking knowledge.
• 1:01:50
  Michael: Mhmm.
• 1:01:50
  Roland: You're gonna be lacking relationships, connection. You're gonna be lacking financial resources, lacking availability of options to better your position in life because you're just trying to get into something quickly. You haven't invested in growing yourself and becoming a master of your own domain.
• 1:02:06
  Michael: Yeah. Well, and and knowledge is is energy. So a lot of people overlook this. What about some of the most highly paid skilled jobs out there require what? Knowledge of something to do.
• 1:02:17
  Mhmm. A coder has to have the knowledge base of it. So someone complained that they're only making $20 an hour and minimum wage needs to be raised. I would argue, what's your work life balance? How much time are you spending wasting energy instead of learning?
• 1:02:30
  If you wanna get to making double that at 40, 60, whatever, you need to find something to learn so that it become more valuable to someone who's willing to pay you for that value. So it's energy, and it's free. Knowledge is free. We have the Internet, which is well, you might have to pay for it. You can go to a library.
• 1:02:46
  It's still free. There's plenty of free Wi Fi out there. You you get out find a device, you get on there, and you can learn almost anything. I'm self taught in music, self taught in almost I've never I've never been to school. I was a high school dropout.
• 1:02:58
  When I wanted to know something, I grew up in the age of the Internet, I would figure it out. And before the Internet, I read a lot of books. There's don't Books seem like a novelty at this point, but go pick up some books.
• 1:03:08
  Roland: I believe it's a novel, not a novelty.
• 1:03:10
  Michael: You know, their knowledge is free. It's out there. It's accessible. It's just a matter of figuring out when you're going to take the time to digest and increase your energy so that you can increase your finances because it's circular. If you don't have the finances, you don't have the energy.
• 1:03:29
  It's a weird weird little concept in life of people. I need I need to make more money. It's like, invest the energy into making more money. Stop being a victim. Mhmm.
• 1:03:39
  Be proactive. Someone someone asked me asked me to say, what would you advise people who wanna make more money? I was like, keep working. Work harder. I literally said, just work harder.
• 1:03:50
  Too many people think work life life balance is is super important, and it it is. But you get to work life balance after you've expended the correct energy in the right space.
• 1:04:00
  Roland: Mhmm. There's a saying I used to say, and I don't know if I generated this myself or I heard it from somewhere, but it's basically do the things no one else wants to do so you can do the things no one else is able to do. Yeah. And you know, when it says work harder, there needs to be an approach. It needs to be a strategic approach and an understanding.
• 1:04:19
  And I think what you just shared with people hopefully stimulates in them some deeper critical thinking.
• 1:04:24
  Michael: Yeah. Glad I said the work harder after I explained why you should be working harder. Yes. It's if it
• 1:04:29
  Roland: It doesn't mean get another or a fourth or a fifth job pay minimum wage. It's how do you generate something of value in your life so someone else sees that you have value and they want to offer you the opportunity to grow and expand.
• 1:04:40
  Michael: And I started that out too with the finance concept of you need to make a plan. You need to make a platform. And so the first thing is I have I have to set a goal. So your if your goal is to make a $100 an hour, you then you need to figure out your industry Mhmm. Your platform.
• 1:04:56
  Where where will you get that? And then you you achieve that by setting other goals along the way. Reach your goal, set a new goal, and see the outcome, and then get the outcome. It's not difficult. Just people lack the motivation typically or the there's there's a lot of variables there.
• 1:05:14
  Roland: The perspective, the approach, the knowledge of how execute, the feedback. Like it is a complicated thing.
• 1:05:20
  Michael: It is complicated. It's not as easy as just saying it.
• 1:05:22
  Roland: No. But it does start with a harder framework. It does start with the framework has to be there. You just have to populate it with the details.
• 1:05:28
  Michael: You create a vision board. It's you know, obviously, you have to be self sustainable in the moment. So people are like, oh, I'll get trapped in this $20 an hour job and
• 1:05:35
  Roland: Mhmm.
• 1:05:35
  Michael: But there there's twenty four hours in a day. Mhmm. You need eight hours of sleep and you're probably working an eight hour shift. So what do you do with those those other hours? You should be investing your energy into your outcome.
• 1:05:46
  Mhmm. Yeah.
• 1:05:47
  Roland: Yeah. I I have a very specific friend I think about, and, he's very well regarded in the pro sports world. And my other friend went to college with him, and he said, I'd get up, get ready to go out, So and so would be on the computer researching, always naked. And then he'd go out for the night. He'd come home.
• 1:06:05
  He'd still be on that computer researching. And he became this incredibly well regarded, well sought after professional in the industry where he can materialize a job anywhere at any time he wants. He's knowledgeable. Because he spent his college career just researching on the computer. He didn't waste time going out and drinking and chasing things.
• 1:06:22
  He invested in himself. So I think you're echoing the same kind of energy there. Back to the That's how I
• 1:06:29
  Michael: my life. Yeah. I became successful by a, having a mission was part of it. I mean, my mom, obviously, there's a mission there with the e system. But I had a I was I'm the Swiss army man of abilities.
• 1:06:43
  You're the MacGyver. I I know how to do I'm a master at a very few things, but I know how everything works. Mhmm. I know I know how how to achieve anything I need to achieve in any moment. I know how to negotiate with people.
• 1:06:56
  I the it's there's nothing I can't do. Someone asked me what what my superpower was. I was like, I can figure out how to do anything if I need if I need to.
• 1:07:05
  Roland: Self reliance. You know there's that statement, jack of all trades, master of none.
• 1:07:09
  Michael: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  Roland: Do you know what the other half of that is? Go for it. So people think it's a negative thing to be a jack of all trades and a master of none, but it says often better than a master of one. Yeah. Because if you have enough relevance in any topic, you can interface with someone and that person could be a specialist in their discipline and you can provide them feedback that their specialization and focus may not have the awareness to see because they're so into it.
• 1:07:35
  And then you can do the same thing with other people in different disciplines. You could become a very powerful influential person if you can unite incredibly smart and motivated people to a common goal. And that's what I've always seen you as a a powerful person in that regard. And I'm glad that you're getting out there finally, and you're you're sharing this. Not to boast, not to brag, but to establish a respect and and and a voice in this.
• 1:07:59
  And I I think it's something that's needed right now.
• 1:08:03
  Michael: Alright. Well, you have have any more questions for me?
• 1:08:07
  Roland: Who folded your pocket square? No. I'm joking. It's more of a triangle. It looks good.
• 1:08:13
  It looks really good. Michael, it's been awesome. Is there anything that you'd like to leave us with? Any final messages, insights, or things that you feel that you need to share with the audience that's gonna listen to this?
• 1:08:25
  Michael: Be the change in your community. Be a leader. Give advice. Sometimes it won't come back to you directly from that person. But community is very powerful thing and the world is extremely small.
• 1:08:37
  If you're gonna do harm to someone, realize this world is very small. So if you're gonna scam someone, even if it's for very little, you're gonna realize this world is very small. Karma's a bitch. I've been traveling all over the world. I've ran into people randomly in other countries.
• 1:08:50
  That's how small it is.
• 1:08:50
  Roland: Mhmm.
• 1:08:51
  Michael: You know, there's not as many people on this planet as you really think there is. And you think you can do something negative to anyone in life and walk away unscathed. It it doesn't work that way. You know, truth and transparency is actual truth and transparency, the words. So be be kind to your community.
• 1:09:09
  Make sure you're doing right. And, you know, it's it's one thing to steal a loaf of bread when you're starving. It's another to steal the the truckload of loaves because you're trying to be greedy.
• 1:09:18
  Roland: Well said. Appreciate that, my friend. Thank you very much.