Latest / The Curve / TCW42: Canada Goose is flapping, there’s interest in Pinterest and WeWork might be WeGone.

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TCW42: Canada Goose is flapping, there’s interest in Pinterest and WeWork might be WeGone. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Hi and welcome to the Curve Weekly. The podcast that keeps you up to date with all the money,
• 0:06
  business and stock market tea. Everyone should experience for us at least once in their lives
• 0:10
  and Annie shouldn't miss out just because she can't afford it. Help me, I'm poor.
• 0:15
  So before we started this podcast, Sophie's like, do you have a funny story to start the podcast with?
• 0:20
  I was like, well, how about what's just happened? Well, yeah, no, because that's not funny.
• 0:24
  It's just funny. It is quite funny. It's not. So Sophie lives like as waste as it comes in London.
• 0:31
  And I live East. Pretty much an hour away from each other. Yeah, yeah. And we've kind of been
• 0:36
  chopping and changing where we do our podcast records. So we're mixing up locations, getting pretty
• 0:40
  fluid, traipsing our podcast gear across town. And I arrived at Sophie's house, which is where we are
• 0:47
  right now. Beautiful, beautiful place she's living in. And she's like, hey babe, I just got to
• 0:52
  shortage. I was like, I actually thought it was a joke. Oh, did you? I was like, oh, funny.
• 0:59
  Standing in the doorway in the pouring rain, I was like, lol. And I was like, oh my god,
• 1:03
  because there's this guy that she doesn't want to see a shortage. So she was like, she was like,
• 1:06
  she was like, you hear? Is he there? And I was like, oh my god, she's not joking.
• 1:10
  The thing is, the only positive I've got for the situation is the tube at like peak hour,
• 1:16
  you know, in the morning and the evening. It is the worst. Like it sucks. You've got to stand up,
• 1:21
  you've got to touch the gross handles and like, they're hanging down. And you've got to get
• 1:25
  edges in to try and give a seat. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's not fun. But when you go off peak hours,
• 1:30
  honestly, you get a seat, there's space. I went my laptop out. I do work. So at least it wasn't like,
• 1:36
  if it had been in Russia both ways, I reckon I would have just cried on my way home.
• 1:40
  You're like, I'm even podcasting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So not. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:45
  What? Where are you? She's like, oh god. I was like, oh god.
• 1:50
  Like a ball stops away. I'm two stops away. I know. I love the running comment, true.
• 1:55
  Oh gosh. No. You've got a laugh. Do you? Yeah. Are you laughing yet? Yeah. Kind of. No, it is.
• 2:03
  I'm actually reading this book at the moment called 10% happier. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's,
• 2:07
  you know, it's kind of just brush things off. When I was in Paris, I got picked pocketed. Oh yeah.
• 2:12
  And everyone else was coming out and we're like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, you know what?
• 2:17
  It's fine. It's material. So Vic was in Paris for the final, the rugby final, the rugby world cup final.
• 2:22
  Yeah. I mean, I think more as people were saying, no, what gang was happening last weekend.
• 2:26
  Every fucking New Zealander on the planet was like, diva stage. Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 2:31
  Vic said she liked clan, but over the seats to go and find the boys because she was in like a
• 2:34
  different seat to them. And she was like, you know, you know, you know, you're when some you lose
• 2:38
  some, and they were just like, they're like, Vic, we have lost something. I was like, ah, okay.
• 2:43
  I'll get the drink. And then I was like, wow, look at the fireworks. I just try to wake.
• 2:47
  And everyone's like, looking at me like, how are you happy right now? I'm like, well, you know,
• 2:51
  just mispositive. Try to be. But when they scored a try, which ended up not being a try,
• 2:58
  which very controversial, I stood up and celebrate mature celebrate. No, no, it was it was mature.
• 3:06
  You were too late, you mean? No, I was at on time. Oh yeah, okay. Yeah. So you nailed your time.
• 3:10
  Yeah, now my time. That's not the point of the story. I stood up and celebrated. And my phone fell
• 3:15
  on my pocket and smashed on the ground. So when the pick pocketers took it, I was like, shame,
• 3:19
  suckers. Yeah, you're like, it's quick and clean. Take that. Anyway, that was my story, but yes,
• 3:26
  no, Paris. No, be bugs either. Oh, sorry, side note, this house. So we do love this house. I hope
• 3:33
  Kate is not listening to this book. But we have, there's been a moth and a beetle infestation.
• 3:38
  At least they're quite cute insects. Oh, I don't know. I mean, it's better than bedbugs.
• 3:42
  Well, like cockroaches or like, yeah, no, no, no, it's fun. Yeah. Anyway, let's move on.
• 3:46
  Please. Stupid little was. Yes. So the stock market. Yeah.
• 3:52
  Has there been some interesting things happening? Yeah, not convinced. I know. I think your
• 3:57
  version and my version of interesting. They're quite different. Yeah. I do try and channel
• 4:01
  so if you're all right, we know, put this together. Nice. Yeah. And then a little bit of
• 4:05
  various. Paris the crowd slips in. Yeah. So anyway, for those of you who've been following the
• 4:14
  stock market has actually had a bit of a tough month. So the S&P 500, which is the top 500 companies
• 4:20
  in the US, has had its worst October performance in three years. So the stock market's finished
• 4:26
  down about 2% for the month. But if we go back to like July, so in July, when we were talking,
• 4:34
  the stock market was up about 20% for that, you know, first half of the year pretty much.
• 4:38
  And now it's only up 10%. So it's gone up. And then it's fallen 10%. So now it's only up about 10%
• 4:44
  for the year. This is what I was trying to explain a while ago around if the stock market is doing
• 4:49
  really well, it's up 20%. And it's historically done 10% for argument sake. It's going to have to
• 4:56
  eventually revert back to that average. But it's like if you always over deliver above your average
• 5:01
  performance, you're going to get tired eventually. Yeah. And you're going to underperform because
• 5:05
  you're going to come back to your average eventually because that's your average. So it's kind of like
• 5:10
  a car that speeds up and does 100 kilometers an hour. But if it's average kilometers per hour
• 5:15
  is 50, in order to get back to that 50, it's going to have to go negative or backwards or that's
• 5:20
  probably an example. But you know what I mean? Like it's kind of if you're doing really really
• 5:23
  well, where your average is here, it's like, well, your average isn't going to jump up. It might
• 5:27
  move a little bit, but it's more likely that your performance isn't going to come down. And that's
• 5:31
  kind of what we've seen. So now the stock market doing 10% this year so far is more alignment
• 5:37
  as average. So even though it's fallen 10%. It's like, don't worry, you know, it's still still
• 5:43
  delivering 10% this year so far. So it's right. Yeah, still doing it's still doing okay. But yes,
• 5:48
  it's just more around like don't stress. This is normal. It's still still tracking pretty well.
• 5:53
  10%. I'll take that. Thank you. In other news, we had we work. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, we're
• 6:00
  sitting in the office yesterday and it's like, so, so we work on bankrupt. I was excited about
• 6:05
  this because not because I'm stoked that someone's company's not doing well. But because I,
• 6:11
  well, I just I see them everywhere and it's really interesting how from the outside,
• 6:16
  you can think things are going really well. I mean, they have beautiful offices all over London,
• 6:22
  all over the world really. It's a thing. 40 countries, actually. Wow. 800 locations in 40 countries.
• 6:28
  So then going bankrupt doesn't mean the entire operations shutting down?
• 6:32
  Effectively. Yeah. They, oh, I think it's about $10 billion in leases. And effectively,
• 6:38
  they just can't pay their debts. So they have declared bankruptcy. So bankruptcy means that they
• 6:44
  don't have to pay off those loans or the money they are. Yep. So it's effectively, that means
• 6:50
  that the debtors will come in. They'll sell all the assets. But the thing is with we work,
• 6:55
  they just lease off of space. They don't own the building. They don't have a lot of assets,
• 6:59
  but they'll effectively sell the assets to pay those debts. And then whatever is left over
• 7:04
  goes to shareholders, which is usually nothing. I feel sorry for businesses who miss out because
• 7:09
  another company's gone bankrupt. I'm just like, imagine if you're relying on it and voice that's
• 7:13
  coming in for $50,000 like for lying on it. And then they go bankrupt and you're like,
• 7:18
  Oh, cool. Well, like that's that money gone. You hear that a lot with like,
• 7:21
  builders, builders, for example, like they might do the building work for the developer.
• 7:25
  And then the developer goes under and then those builders don't get paid. And there's kind of,
• 7:29
  I mean, they've got their own insurance, but it's still that's sure. It's still kind of tough,
• 7:33
  tough world being a contractor. Yeah. So there's about half a million people that use
• 7:37
  a wee work location, which is they're all going to have to find somewhere else to work from as well,
• 7:41
  which is quite well. Well, I just like, if you look at that and you think half a million people
• 7:46
  are paying for spaces, how has it gone bankrupt? Like that to me sounds like it's doing pretty well.
• 7:52
  Yeah. I guess their model is to provide space for small businesses, freelancers, contractors,
• 7:57
  whatever to do to work from, like we do with our co-working space. And then during COVID,
• 8:01
  those were the ones that A were hit the hardest in terms of their businesses and B were the ones
• 8:07
  that were most likely go work from home. So it's kind of, they got hit by that. And then, I mean,
• 8:13
  I don't know what's happened since, but like they've gone into, I was reading, it was quite funny.
• 8:17
  They've dabbled in other projects like they started a elementary school called We Grow.
• 8:22
  And they've gone into residential building. So they did We Live. I was like, I kind of didn't know this.
• 8:28
  And then they've started gyms called Rise by We, which kind of went a bit right up, but they're not
• 8:33
  like we fit or something. Yeah, we fit. I like that. Yeah, but quite a good brand. We're strong.
• 8:38
  Yeah. We, yeah. But I mean, it might not be all over for them. Like there can be, from a sheer
• 8:43
  hold, it's point of view, it's pretty risky. You can hold on in the hope that someone else,
• 8:46
  another company might buy. We work. Oh, it's because they can then buy the brand. And then they might
• 8:51
  be like, you know what, we work during this wrong, we can do it differently, or someone that owns
• 8:55
  a whole lot of property might be like, oh, perfect. We can roll out. Yeah. Yeah. But that is risky,
• 9:01
  because if that doesn't come along, if that lifeline doesn't come along, then you're
• 9:06
  pretty much as she is going to nothing. So it's either like, shit, do I sell now? Or do I wait
• 9:11
  in the hope? What's the share price worth now? So it was a $50 billion company. And it's now
• 9:17
  about $160 million. Yeah. So it's pretty, it's pretty dire. But there's a great TV show called We
• 9:26
  Crash. I've not seen it. Yes. With Jared Leto and Anne Hathaway. And it's so good. Like it kind of
• 9:32
  just plays into the, well, tell us the story of, of we work and how they tried to IPO and they didn't,
• 9:38
  and then I put it again. And I just, it's going public. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I'm going public. So
• 9:43
  when the public that you and me can buy shares. But it is, it's crazy just like the story and how
• 9:50
  extravagant, I guess, or overindulgent the founder was. Well, maybe it has a stream. And like,
• 9:56
  that's kind of what founders, not when he was, ah, yeah, that's crazy. She just spends money.
• 10:01
  I'm just tomorrow. She's like, let's buy Lamington's for all these people. Let's do this. Let's
• 10:06
  have a curve festival. We'll invite everyone and DJ. Yeah. It's interesting because I think like
• 10:12
  especially companies that get like when people invest in them. So whether it's like venture capital
• 10:17
  or whatever it is, if they get money poured into it. So people like, oh, tech, this is a good idea.
• 10:22
  I think you could get pretty big feel boots and start spending money in ways that you shouldn't be.
• 10:26
  Oh, totally. And that's probably especially if he's super extravagant when we've made a doc
• 10:30
  of about him or a TV series. Yeah. Maybe he just spent way beyond what the company can afford.
• 10:35
  And yeah, no. And I mean, there is lots of competition out there as well. There's a lot of co-working
• 10:39
  spaces now. I think when they first started, it was quite niche. Whereas now there's more.
• 10:44
  So many in London. There's female ones. There's ones for creatives. There's one for, you know,
• 10:49
  there's lots of different types. But that to me would make me think like, oh, there's enough
• 10:53
  market for it because there's so many and people are demanding it. But anyway, so they've done under.
• 10:59
  So see you later. See you later. We gone. We bad. We gone. We bad. We bad. We bad.
• 11:06
  In other news, Pinterest. So see me run those Pinterest. Do people use Pinterest anymore?
• 11:12
  Well, I'm surprised at how it makes money, to be honest. How do them? As it is.
• 11:18
  Like a lot of these platforms, but I personally don't use Pinterest.
• 11:24
  I can a lot of people use it if they're renovating and they want house and spot.
• 11:26
  Well, they're getting married and they want wedding and spot. It's like, I think it's used a lot
• 11:31
  in those kinds of scenarios. But I'm not just like browsing Pinterest to be like, oh,
• 11:35
  this is a cute little buzz I could make into a teapot. You know, I'm like, people like some crafts.
• 11:41
  I feel like people use a arts and crafts and things like that. I remember when I was renovating,
• 11:44
  like you said, and my sister was like, you should go on a Pinterest and start a Pinterest board.
• 11:48
  I was like, I don't have time for that. My dad, when he got remarried recently,
• 11:54
  his wife, now wife, created an entire mood board from Pinterest on how she wanted the wedding photos
• 12:00
  look and the love face. It was so cute. So they'd be like practicing the poses before the wedding,
• 12:05
  like, no, Mike, you need to put your hand here. Like, oh, no, that's not it. It was like, they
• 12:10
  took it quite seriously. Did the photos look like what they want? Yeah, I think so. Oh, I don't
• 12:14
  know. I had too much Botox and my drawing conspile. So I really really did the family. But I think
• 12:19
  there's, she's like, oh, there goes all that effort on a Pinterest. So it's got Botox. They're like
• 12:24
  small and I'll say, I am, I am. So Pinterest, you know, you and me don't use it, but over 480
• 12:31
  million other people do. Wow. Yeah. Which is 30% larger than the number that used Twitter. What's
• 12:37
  X? I mean X. Who uses it? But it's interesting because the US and Europe, like, the users on Pinterest
• 12:45
  are kind of flatline. They're not really growing, you know, it's, but it's everyone else in the world
• 12:50
  is like going gangbusters. So they've obviously found a little niche of people that are using Pinterest.
• 12:56
  Right. Wow. That's like a lot. But you know how some global platforms just resonate in different
• 13:01
  markets and then they take time to resonate in others. But yes, there's definitely a younger
• 13:07
  audience that's using Pinterest. But shocking to me, I would have thought it was my mum that was
• 13:11
  really keeping them down. Yes. Yeah. So it's now a $20 billion company, which is bigger than
• 13:15
  Snapchat now, actually. Wow. Yeah. And interesting that they're actually doing well from
• 13:21
  advertising because you might remember last week when we talked about Microsoft and Meta and
• 13:26
  all those companies that we're seeing a bit of a drop in because of the what's going on in
• 13:31
  the Middle East and advertisers are pulling back on spending. So good to see that Pinterest is
• 13:37
  holding it back. I shouldn't think of it as of a pun when I couldn't. Yeah. Pinterest is really
• 13:42
  pinning its ears back. It's got lots of interest. Oh, she is on fire today. Yeah. They don't call me
• 13:50
  punny vick for nothing. Nobody calls you punny that. I know. And lastly, we had Canada Goose. So you know
• 13:59
  the beautiful, actually controversial down jackets, they're like $1,000. No, I don't. You don't
• 14:06
  like? They've got the puffer jackets with like the little red and white circle on the on the arm.
• 14:12
  No, I don't think I know them. That little symbol. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they are super
• 14:18
  expensive, super bougie, but they are on your wishlist. Not really. I mean, they might be for the
• 14:25
  mountain. Puffer for London winter. Yeah. But that's like I'm going hiking. Yeah. So their
• 14:31
  share price hasn't actually done very well. It's down to about 80% of the last five years. And in
• 14:36
  the head of result, which again, wasn't too good. And it's all around, you know, they're high ticket
• 14:39
  item, high price points, people aren't spending as much, recession, all of that. So they're failing
• 14:46
  the pinch, but they used to have a lot of controversy, controversy, controversy around them.
• 14:52
  And I remember once I was actually in London, like I'm not now. This one time. This one time.
• 14:58
  And there's a Canada goose shop on Oxford Street. Well, people protesting. People protesting.
• 15:03
  Wow. And there was like red paint on the ground. And like, they were killing geese.
• 15:08
  Yeah. Well, that's what I thought. But it was actually the fluff around the hood is from
• 15:14
  coyotes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it was like, so then they've banned the fluff around the hood now.
• 15:19
  But I mean, it is geese feathers in the down jackets as well. So there is a bit of controversy
• 15:25
  around that. But it was just, it's just interesting how the company hasn't done very well since it's
• 15:30
  listed, since its IPO and been a public company. So they've been downhill. So were they doing well?
• 15:35
  Initially, I wonder if there's something to do with like all their financials or company stuff
• 15:40
  being public that people are like, oh, yeah, I don't like what I see under the hood. Excuse the
• 15:44
  part. Oh, there she goes. There she goes. Yeah. And I also think it's like, when a company
• 15:50
  IPO's and goes public for the first time, it's usually when they're doing really, really well.
• 15:55
  There's a lot of hype, you know, they're kind of like, they're, they're peak. And I'm not saying
• 15:59
  this is every company at all. But I do feel like Canada goose kind of had that five years ago.
• 16:05
  And now it's kind of like the shines have worn off. I mean, that's because that's just my personal
• 16:09
  opinion. I feel like due to conscious investing, ethical investing, you know, this has kind of
• 16:15
  got a bit of a target on its back. And that might not be the reason for the sheer price to climb,
• 16:20
  but it's definitely, there would be an increasing number of people that would be like, hmm.
• 16:26
  I also know there's sales are down. Like maybe people don't want to buy them anymore.
• 16:29
  Yes, yeah. That's recently. Yes, definitely. So the sales are supposed to increase next year,
• 16:35
  but they came out this week and said they're going to decrease. And it's all around because it's
• 16:39
  just such an expensive coat. And also you're not buying that stuff frequently. Yeah.
• 16:44
  Personally, not a company that I'd be very interested in investing in. No. And a particular
• 16:48
  thing that hasn't done very well. Yeah. But it's interesting when you have, I don't know, a company
• 16:52
  that, well, I personally see the jacket everywhere. I think it'll be now that you've mentioned it.
• 16:56
  I'm like, there's one there. So you know, when you're like looking for a red Honda Jazz to buy,
• 17:01
  for example, and all of a sudden, they're everywhere. Or you learn a new word and then you hear
• 17:04
  everywhere and you're like, I'd love to learn new words. I really think my vocab needs to expand.
• 17:10
  Should we start that in the pod? Yeah. Daily new words. Yeah. You bring one. I bring one.
• 17:14
  I love that. Yeah. Okay. And that sounds good. We're just, you know, helping people get ahead of
• 17:19
  the curve and finances and their English teaching finance and English. I would be really hard to
• 17:26
  be a publicly listed company. It's kind of like a being a famous celebrity in a way. And everything's
• 17:33
  exposed. Where everyone can see everything under the covers. Yeah. Everything. But no, and that's
• 17:37
  kind of why some companies avoid it. If you've got direct competitors, say it's three companies
• 17:44
  who exactly the same. And ones like, well, we need money to grow to get ahead of these other two.
• 17:49
  It's kind of just like, like, yeah, but then we have to show them what's under the hood.
• 17:53
  You know, I suppose that Elon Musk wanted any of his companies to be private, just based on what
• 17:58
  happens behind the scenes. Yeah. Not that I haven't read his book, but I'm quite interested too.
• 18:03
  Yeah. I just want to be on my playing trip home. Yeah. Yeah. What do you plan on reading the whole thing?
• 18:08
  No, but have you booked your flight? Yeah. Why? I'm just wondering if you went, um, business or
• 18:15
  a holiday, you've done business again. Business. Do you know what's so funny? Have they
• 18:20
  do they even have this bus anymore? Or have you done one? That's quite a good idea.
• 18:25
  I honestly, it's been the first time in my life that I valued the idea of spending money on
• 18:31
  like, not a totally ship flight. I was looking at flights home for the end of this year. And
• 18:37
  they're like 3000. Yeah. It's outrageous. And I was looking at the difference in like 10 extra hours
• 18:44
  of flying, what that means, like, how much more those flights are. So like, some of them are 40 hours
• 18:50
  to get home. Oh, yeah. And I was like, absolutely, if that I would rather pay an extra 300 pounds
• 18:59
  than a void. It's kind of figuring out where your tipping point is from that respect. Yeah. Like,
• 19:04
  I hate waiting at stopovers. Like, there is no way I actually couldn't imagine. Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:10
  But then I get so pived off if I choose one that's like an hour gap and then the first flight's delayed.
• 19:15
  And you're like, ah, fuck. And now I've got to have to wait for the next. But there is a flight
• 19:20
  from Sydney to London, one flight, 24 hours. And I was like, that's a flight you want to pay
• 19:26
  business for. Oh, yeah. You know, like your cost per mile or hour would be way better.
• 19:35
  I reckon I just might, on my way home this time, pretend I'm in business. So I'm going to take
• 19:40
  base masks. I'm going to take a mini fan. I'm going to take myself, maybe a full-size pillow,
• 19:45
  you know, like, I'm going to just prepare myself, like I'm pampering. And if someone gives me
• 19:49
  shit for it, I'll just be like, I totally love doing face masks. But, but I think normally I'm
• 19:53
  just like sitting there prepared for like the worst flight ever at this time. Take your own food.
• 19:58
  Yeah. Makes such a difference. Having a salad rather than fucking warmed up eggs.
• 20:02
  I don't mind a dinner roll. Yeah. I know I'm always like, do not eat it, do not eat it, do not, do not, do.
• 20:11
  Do you like to want dessert? You're like, no, no, no, no, yes, please.
• 20:16
  Do you have some pretzels? Do you wash that down?
• 20:19
  Thank you so much for listening to The Curve Weekly. Make sure you hit the subscribe button
• 20:23
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• 20:28
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