Latest / Foul Territory / Inside the Twins ownership mess w/Dan Hayes & how it might get worse

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Inside the Twins ownership mess w/Dan Hayes & how it might get worse · Foul Territory

0:04
Speaker 1: Twins. Reporter for The Athletic, Dan Hayes is here covering
0:08
Speaker 1: what I think is one of the most shocking headlines
0:11
Speaker 1: of the sports year. The Pollads had been looking to
0:14
Speaker 1: sell the Minnesota Twins for about a year, and Dan
0:17
Speaker 1: has been all over the case here. He put out
0:20
Speaker 1: another article this morning with Brittany Giroli and The Athletic
0:22
Speaker 1: why the Pollads stunned potential buyers and kept control of
0:26
Speaker 1: the Twins. That is a real quote from one of
0:29
Speaker 1: the next generation family members of the pole Ads, Joe
0:33
Speaker 1: Paulad said, we are the right people. Dan, here we go.
0:39
Speaker 1: What the heck happened? And how has this shook Minneapolis?
0:44
Speaker 2: Oh man.
0:45
Speaker 3: I'm sitting by the Delta complaints counter here at MSP
0:50
Speaker 3: and I halfway expect a bunch of Twins fans to
0:54
Speaker 3: line up and complain about the pole Ads. It's been
0:56
Speaker 3: a rough couple of weeks. I mean, the trade deabline
0:58
Speaker 3: was shocking enough, right, but this sale was stagnant. Basically
1:03
Speaker 3: after Justinishbia left. It just felt like there was momentum times,
1:08
Speaker 3: but the thing it always lacked was big fish. You
1:11
Speaker 3: always need an anchor investor like the guy with the
1:14
Speaker 3: big Bucks. The Twins had a ton of interest from
1:18
Speaker 3: limited partners, and we saw that play out right here,
1:21
Speaker 3: where two groups investing at least twenty percent into the club.
1:29
Speaker 2: We're willing to.
1:30
Speaker 3: Buy it up without having a path to control, without
1:32
Speaker 3: having anything more than a seat on the board.
1:36
Speaker 2: And so that's two seats on the board.
1:37
Speaker 3: We don't know how big the board is, we don't
1:39
Speaker 3: know how much voice they will actually have.
1:42
Speaker 2: That's a very unique, unusual deal.
1:45
Speaker 3: There was plenty of people like this that were interested,
1:49
Speaker 3: but I think after Justinishbia kind of left and abandoned
1:54
Speaker 3: has pursued of the Twins in January when the when
1:58
Speaker 3: Jerry Reinsdorf's sons reached out, they really couldn't find someone
2:03
Speaker 3: that wanted to come in.
2:05
Speaker 2: And so this this team sat on the market.
2:07
Speaker 3: And there's only so long that you can keep the
2:09
Speaker 3: house on an open market before the value starts to
2:12
Speaker 3: go down and bids get less. The MLB wasn't going
2:14
Speaker 3: to let that happen. I think that you know, it
2:18
Speaker 3: sat there forever, and they had groups still spinning their
2:22
Speaker 3: wheels trying to put stuff together, and we wrote about
2:24
Speaker 3: that that there were still investors meeting yesterday trying to
2:27
Speaker 3: figure out a way to get there, and they were surprised,
2:31
Speaker 3: blindsided to see this sale happen the way it did,
2:35
Speaker 3: the partial sale, but I mean that was the Option's
2:39
Speaker 3: been there for six months. The price hasn't changed, and
2:43
Speaker 3: like I think, just at some point the Pullouds had
2:45
Speaker 3: to kind of pull the plug, and by doing this
2:48
Speaker 3: they infuse much needed cash without giving up power. This
2:53
Speaker 3: probably positions them for a sale down the road, even
2:56
Speaker 3: though they say they're committed, and I didn't include that
2:58
Speaker 3: in the story today, but Joe pull D said, we're committed,
3:02
Speaker 3: but it probably positions them after the next CBA for
3:08
Speaker 3: selling them when franchise.
3:10
Speaker 2: Values might be higher. The fact that they will have
3:12
Speaker 2: half the debt.
3:13
Speaker 3: Or somewhere in that realm a significant amount less with debt,
3:19
Speaker 3: it should increase the value of the Twins and position
3:22
Speaker 3: them well later. But I mean, you know, Twins fans
3:25
Speaker 3: have been clamoring for this for probably decades since.
3:28
Speaker 2: The contraction bid in two thousand and two. You know,
3:33
Speaker 2: I mean, if.
3:34
Speaker 3: There are two thousand and one, the years are mixed
3:36
Speaker 3: up in my head here, but you know, like they've
3:39
Speaker 3: been clamoring for a sale for a long time. The
3:41
Speaker 3: last ten months we've seen just an overwhelming push for
3:45
Speaker 3: them to sell from fans, and I think they're very
3:48
Speaker 3: disappointed today. And I certainly would not want to be
3:51
Speaker 3: in the season ticket holder office talking to those guys.
3:55
Speaker 2: Dan.
3:56
Speaker 4: It's only if we would have talked about this months
3:58
Speaker 4: and years ago. I mean, it was two thousand and two,
4:00
Speaker 4: by the way, contraction because I was on the team
4:01
Speaker 4: they want to get rid of it. It was between
4:03
Speaker 4: two thousand and one and two thousand and two US
4:05
Speaker 4: and the Expos they were talking about contracting, getting rid
4:08
Speaker 4: of the the franchises for whatever reason they want to
4:11
Speaker 4: come up with. Whatever it was all bs. So here,
4:13
Speaker 4: here's the thing, Dan about this. You just mentioned that
4:15
Speaker 4: the pole Ads didn't want to sell, and they wanted
4:18
Speaker 4: Joe Polad to be on the board, and they wanted,
4:20
Speaker 4: you know, grand grandson Polad to be on the next
4:23
Speaker 4: board and then the great grandson of that to be
4:25
Speaker 4: the president twenty five thousand years from now. I mean,
4:28
Speaker 4: there was all these stipulations, right, So they never really
4:31
Speaker 4: wanted to sell. That's what it comes across to me.
4:32
Speaker 4: Unless they got blown out of the water, it wasn't happening.
4:35
Speaker 4: You know there's a possible workstop it's coming out. But
4:37
Speaker 4: what gets me about all this is we're the right
4:39
Speaker 4: people to run this team? Are you? Because I was
4:43
Speaker 4: there when Carl Pohlad the grandfather, would walk in the
4:45
Speaker 4: clubhouse and not know who the players were, and I'd
4:48
Speaker 4: be standing in my locker and he would go, oh, hi,
4:50
Speaker 4: Tory Hunter, and I'm like, uh no, I'm not Tory Hunter. Right,
4:54
Speaker 4: So like things like that, it was like, wait a second,
4:57
Speaker 4: that was twenty five years ago and we're still talking
5:00
Speaker 4: about it, right, So how can they come out and
5:02
Speaker 4: say we were the right team to or the right
5:05
Speaker 4: people to write the ship.
5:06
Speaker 2: You haven't writed it in twenty.
5:08
Speaker 4: Since nineteen ninety one, let's be honest, since that's been
5:11
Speaker 4: since nineteen ninety.
5:12
Speaker 3: One, right, No, Look, I mean just on recent examples alone,
5:17
Speaker 3: they're going to miss the playoffs for the fourth time
5:18
Speaker 3: in five years this season. Are in some miracle comeback
5:21
Speaker 3: that's not going to happen. They are on pace for
5:25
Speaker 3: one point eight million tickets right now.
5:27
Speaker 2: It's going to be the lowest.
5:29
Speaker 3: I think it's currently on pace for five thousand more
5:32
Speaker 3: tickets than the all time target field low. They're going
5:35
Speaker 3: to miss that. People are gonna not show up. They'll
5:38
Speaker 3: they'll end it probably sub one point eight million. They
5:41
Speaker 3: don't have secured a they have not secured a market
5:46
Speaker 3: media deal like significant deal there. There's lots of things
5:50
Speaker 3: to point out right now to say this isn't going well.
5:53
Speaker 3: So when I heard that, I mean, yeah, of course,
5:55
Speaker 3: that's why it's in the headline. There's a little bit
5:58
Speaker 3: I get they're excited Joe Pollad, this really gives.
6:02
Speaker 2: Him run as a shot, and it.
6:05
Speaker 3: Clearly was probably up in the air the last couple
6:07
Speaker 3: of years. I do think if they had gotten the
6:09
Speaker 3: right deal, they would have got out. I think that,
6:11
Speaker 3: you know, it's a big family. Started with Carl Pohlad,
6:14
Speaker 3: but he had three sons. There are now seven grandchildren,
6:18
Speaker 3: and then all of them have kids, and you're talking,
6:20
Speaker 3: you know, a huge family. Not everybody has the same interests.
6:25
Speaker 2: One of the brothers is in.
6:26
Speaker 3: The movie industry, like they you have diverse interests when
6:30
Speaker 3: you have a big, rich family. I don't think everybody
6:33
Speaker 3: is totally on board. I think a handful definitely are.
6:37
Speaker 3: But there's been just this air of uncertainty, and I
6:40
Speaker 3: think had they gotten that big offer, they would have
6:44
Speaker 3: taken it just because how do you pass that up?
6:46
Speaker 3: But it's been just awkward, and you know, like you said,
6:51
Speaker 3: the statement, the phrasing. This is the same group that
6:55
Speaker 3: said they wanted to right size the business last spring
6:57
Speaker 3: training after the thirty.
6:59
Speaker 2: Million dollar pay cut.
7:01
Speaker 3: They make headlines from time to time that have not
7:03
Speaker 3: been flattering, to say the least, and frankly anger fans
7:08
Speaker 3: and I can understand it.
7:09
Speaker 2: And you know, Joe pull Out as a friendly dude.
7:12
Speaker 3: I enjoyed my interactions with them, but this is two
7:16
Speaker 3: statements like that where it's like, you know, those aren't
7:19
Speaker 3: the best statements, and they make headlines and they stick
7:22
Speaker 3: around for a while, and I think fans will definitely
7:25
Speaker 3: use that for a while, especially if the team isn't
7:27
Speaker 3: able to turn this around now.
7:28
Speaker 2: I mean, clearly they infused a.
7:31
Speaker 3: Lot of talent the deadline, even though they salary dumped
7:35
Speaker 3: Carlos Correa. You look at their pitching, there's some really
7:38
Speaker 3: intriguing arms along with still having a lot of starting pitching.
7:41
Speaker 2: Intact. You saw Joe Ryant last night.
7:44
Speaker 3: Bailey over maybe looks like he's getting back on the
7:46
Speaker 3: right track. Pablo Lopez is around the corner. Zebbie Matthews
7:49
Speaker 3: looked pretty good Monday a Yankee Stadium. And then you
7:52
Speaker 3: have TODJ. Bradley of Mike Abel and you have Kendrick Rojas.
7:55
Speaker 3: I mean you have some good starting pitching. Like there's
7:58
Speaker 3: a world where you.
7:59
Speaker 2: Can see them maybe getting healthy.
8:02
Speaker 3: Quicker if some young guys developed, But if they don't,
8:06
Speaker 3: like how long are people going to hold those kinds
8:07
Speaker 3: of phrases over their heads?
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9:10
Speaker 5: I had another question, but just talking about what you're
9:12
Speaker 5: talking about. When they said we're the right people to
9:16
Speaker 5: write this ship, what does writing the ship look like?
9:19
Speaker 5: Or have started turning the runner because history shows you
9:24
Speaker 5: they've had good pitching. History shows you they've had infusion
9:30
Speaker 5: of really good position players. Now they have Byron Bucks
9:33
Speaker 5: News healthy and you think Royce Lewis is gonna get
9:36
Speaker 5: better because he actually plays worse when he's playing all
9:39
Speaker 5: the time, and he plays better when he's hurt all
9:41
Speaker 5: the time. So you know, it's it's you have that infusion,
9:44
Speaker 5: it's the same Twins team. What does the writing of
9:47
Speaker 5: the ship actually look like? If that is true?
9:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's hard to say.
9:52
Speaker 3: Look, the previous plan, the plug got pulled after the
9:56
Speaker 3: playoffs when they signed Carlos Career. I want to say
10:00
Speaker 3: the day that Christian Vosque has signed was the day
10:03
Speaker 3: Korea was going to have his press conference with the
10:05
Speaker 3: San Francisco Giants, and I sat in Joe Poulad's office
10:08
Speaker 3: that day with Dustin Morris, communications director, and we talked
10:11
Speaker 3: about what payroll could look like if the business was right,
10:14
Speaker 3: and Joe Poled said there was a world and I
10:17
Speaker 3: used the quote, there's a world in which if the
10:19
Speaker 3: business is healthy and the team is ready, I could
10:22
Speaker 3: see us having a one eighty two hundred million dollar
10:24
Speaker 3: pay well. I floated the numbers, one eighty two hundred million,
10:27
Speaker 3: and he said, I could see.
10:28
Speaker 2: That being a reality. That was the plan.
10:33
Speaker 3: Then they signed Carlos Korea. Three weeks later. They had
10:36
Speaker 3: the record payroll that year was either one hundred and
10:38
Speaker 3: fifty seven million dollars or maybe one sixty But then
10:42
Speaker 3: they pulled the plug on that year. Later they cut
10:43
Speaker 3: payroll by thirty million dollars. They stopped adding around that group,
10:47
Speaker 3: so it's kind of incomplete, like you're seeing what is
10:51
Speaker 3: left of that now, which is a not an athletic team.
10:53
Speaker 3: Luke Kishaw has been a breath of fresh air because
10:56
Speaker 3: he is athletic. Roys Lewis is starting to show some
10:59
Speaker 3: of the signs of that again because he's looking healthy.
11:02
Speaker 3: Byron Buckston clearly is one of those guys. Now we're
11:05
Speaker 3: going to see them go in this younger athletic direction.
11:09
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say they're going to go what the Rays
11:12
Speaker 3: are doing or the Milwaukee Brewers are doing, but I
11:15
Speaker 3: mean it wouldn't shock me if.
11:16
Speaker 2: They try to go in a new direction. It's yeah,
11:21
Speaker 2: it's confusing.
11:23
Speaker 3: If I was a fan, i'd be frustrated that July
11:27
Speaker 3: thirty one was a dark day. I mean, I've struggled
11:31
Speaker 3: to find anyone that can tell me at any point
11:34
Speaker 3: where they've seen ten players traded. And by the way,
11:36
Speaker 3: I apologize for my camera, this is not optimal, but
11:41
Speaker 3: you know, this has been a really rough stretch and
11:46
Speaker 3: what getting right looks like, I don't know. I think
11:48
Speaker 3: that's why fans wanted a fresh perspective coming in, a
11:53
Speaker 3: clean break, and clearly we're not getting that, and you
11:56
Speaker 3: have to wonder what the future holds.
11:58
Speaker 4: Okay, I got to ask because Falve came out and
12:01
Speaker 4: said he was directed by ownership to trade everybody. But
12:04
Speaker 4: now the ownership saying we didn't say that, So who
12:07
Speaker 4: wanted to fire sale?
12:08
Speaker 2: You brought it up.
12:08
Speaker 4: They traded, you know what, almost half their team away
12:11
Speaker 4: in like four hours, So who was it on. Was
12:14
Speaker 4: this a fallavi decision, Was this a whole out decision,
12:17
Speaker 4: or was it the fans are going to be mad
12:18
Speaker 4: at me, so we'll just do it anyway's decision.
12:21
Speaker 3: I think Korea was definitely something from an ownership level,
12:26
Speaker 3: the impending free agents, that was a given we were
12:29
Speaker 3: going to see them get traded anyways, you know the
12:34
Speaker 3: way they've described it is. And I asked Joe Paul
12:37
Speaker 3: specifically about the deadline yestady, and he said, I thought
12:39
Speaker 3: it was good baseball decisions for the long term, short
12:42
Speaker 3: term and long term health of our franchise.
12:44
Speaker 2: So I know they plan on using there. I don't
12:48
Speaker 2: know how they will use it, because he phrased it
12:50
Speaker 2: if we choose to do so. But he talked about
12:53
Speaker 2: the financial flexibility.
12:55
Speaker 3: I don't know that the payrel is going to go
12:57
Speaker 3: up much from where it is right now, and next
12:59
Speaker 3: year it wouldn't shock me if we saw them around
13:02
Speaker 3: one hundred million dollars. But I mean, honestly, those aren't decisions.
13:05
Speaker 3: They're made until October November anyways. But it's going to
13:09
Speaker 3: depend on season ticket base and what that looks like.
13:12
Speaker 3: And I can't see the season ticket holders sticking around
13:15
Speaker 3: right now.
13:16
Speaker 2: It's going to be interesting to see what that fallout
13:19
Speaker 2: looks like. But I would say it was directed.
13:22
Speaker 3: From ownership level, even if they're saying no, they were
13:25
Speaker 3: motivated to move Carlos Corey's money absolutely the way too.
13:30
Speaker 2: I think partly you can say it's Derek Falvey.
13:33
Speaker 3: As far as knowing what direction they're heading and knowing
13:37
Speaker 3: that they needed a talent in fusion.
13:39
Speaker 2: One way to do that is sell off a good bullpen.
13:41
Speaker 3: And so I think that's why we saw Louis Varlin
13:45
Speaker 3: get traded, Griffin Jacks get traded, was hey, we can
13:48
Speaker 3: bring in this younger talent that's, you know, high upside
13:52
Speaker 3: and very attractive.
13:54
Speaker 2: Even though Louis Varland.
13:55
Speaker 3: Himself had very little service time. They really love the
13:59
Speaker 3: guy that got Ken Rojas. They love Alan Roaden. They
14:01
Speaker 3: think Alan Roden and I've heard a lot of people say, man,
14:04
Speaker 3: this performance has been so consistent across the miners. I
14:07
Speaker 3: think he at one hundred and sixty five walks, one
14:09
Speaker 3: hundred and sixty five strikeouts, and thirteen hundred minor league
14:12
Speaker 3: plate appearances. They want to see what he can do
14:14
Speaker 3: at the major league level they were. They were blown
14:16
Speaker 3: away by that offer and decided to make that. So
14:20
Speaker 3: it wouldn't shock me if it was a little boats,
14:21
Speaker 3: but I would not.
14:23
Speaker 2: I think think.
14:23
Speaker 3: Ownership's fingerprints are all over the whole the whole scheme
14:27
Speaker 3: in general.
14:30
Speaker 5: Can you confirm this? Maybe I got trolled on a
14:33
Speaker 5: story I read. Did the Twins up season ticket prices
14:37
Speaker 5: for next year right before the trade deadline? Or did
14:40
Speaker 5: I not read that correctly?
14:41
Speaker 2: You know what? I honestly, I doe. There's been too
14:44
Speaker 2: much going on. I don't know. I'll look into that
14:46
Speaker 2: and get back to you guys, But the last three
14:49
Speaker 2: weeks as of bar it's just a bo kratzy.
14:51
Speaker 4: I'll tell you what happened. I was told that they're
14:53
Speaker 4: going to up at five percent. So I could be wrong.
14:56
Speaker 4: I could be trolled. I could be been given bad information, Dan,
14:59
Speaker 4: I don't know. It was something that I was told
15:01
Speaker 4: from people not in the organization that I know outside
15:04
Speaker 4: the organization, that said there's there was a rumor and
15:08
Speaker 4: they think it's fact that the ticket prices are going
15:10
Speaker 4: to go up five percent next year and so right,
15:11
Speaker 4: And this was right after the trade deadline when they
15:14
Speaker 4: were going to send out the season ticket list.
15:17
Speaker 3: I mean, I've seen people online today just kind of
15:20
Speaker 3: grandstanding showing that they're canceling their accounts. I've heard from
15:24
Speaker 3: one person that it's a busy day in there, and
15:27
Speaker 3: not the fun kind of busy day.
15:28
Speaker 2: So it's going to be very interesting.
15:31
Speaker 3: And you know what, rarely my perspective do you cover
15:34
Speaker 3: a team from a the business side of things, But
15:37
Speaker 3: clearly that's something that we have to keep an eye on.
15:39
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a team that just went to
15:42
Speaker 3: MLB run Twins TV this year. You know there there's
15:47
Speaker 3: a lot of uncertainty going forward and you know where's
15:51
Speaker 3: where ticket sales are to be Next year is gonna
15:53
Speaker 3: be really interesting.
15:53
Speaker 1: Now.
15:53
Speaker 2: The one thing that's true is winning does cure all.
15:56
Speaker 3: And if you put Luke Kishaw and Royce Lewis and
15:59
Speaker 3: Byron Bucks and that's starting staff together and get a
16:02
Speaker 3: little bit of help here or there, because they do
16:04
Speaker 3: have financial flexibility. If they do piece it together, maybe they.
16:08
Speaker 2: Are an interesting club.
16:09
Speaker 3: But there's just more pressure on that team to win
16:13
Speaker 3: right now to get the business side going again.
16:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, otherwise they're taking the franchise. This is a page
16:18
Speaker 1: out of the John Fisher Book of how to move.
16:21
Speaker 1: But they're not moving and they want to move the team.
16:24
Speaker 1: This is such a mess.
16:26
Speaker 3: It is and why you know, that's the one part
16:27
Speaker 3: is why would you want to move from Targetfield? Target
16:29
Speaker 3: Field a spectacular ballpark. I know that April sucks in
16:34
Speaker 3: the weather there. If we ever see what a late
16:36
Speaker 3: October looks like, that's could be very interesting. But they
16:40
Speaker 3: have a long lease at target Field that there. It's
16:43
Speaker 3: the same reason contraction didn't happen. There was the least
16:45
Speaker 3: the Metrodome. The judge ruled that you can't get out.
16:48
Speaker 2: Of your lease.
16:49
Speaker 3: This cannot happen, and that shut down contraction talks real quick.
16:53
Speaker 3: Twins have like twelve fifteen years left on their lease
16:56
Speaker 3: at target Field.
16:57
Speaker 2: They're not going anywhere, so you know.
16:59
Speaker 3: It really is it's just a really interesting ten months,
17:06
Speaker 3: last three weeks.
17:07
Speaker 2: It's it's insane.
17:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, they could not care less. They have tried to
17:11
Speaker 1: move the team, contract the team now fake sell the
17:14
Speaker 1: team for really over two point one billion dollars if
17:16
Speaker 1: you include the debt, and everyone was like that's crazy.
17:18
Speaker 1: Someone offered like one point five and they hung up
17:21
Speaker 1: the phone, like this is just an utter disaster. But
17:24
Speaker 1: at least, and I'll end this the way that we
17:26
Speaker 1: started this, at least this is the right person to
17:29
Speaker 1: take them through the storm. Declared by I don't know
17:32
Speaker 1: the high heaven. Somebody declared it. No one knows who
17:35
Speaker 1: it is, but someone declared that Joe paulad is going
17:38
Speaker 1: to lead this franchise to glory into victory, and if
17:41
Speaker 1: he does, obviously he's going to sell it. So we
17:43
Speaker 1: know where they'll be voting, and they'll be trying to
17:45
Speaker 1: lock out the world. That's why this is a baseball problem.
17:47
Speaker 1: They're going to try and lock out the players and
17:50
Speaker 1: the fans from watching baseball next year because it would
17:52
Speaker 1: raise the franchise value if they can suppress salaries. It's
17:55
Speaker 1: that simple. Someone can come on and tell me otherwise.
17:58
Speaker 1: There is no doubt that's where they'll be voting. Behind
18:00
Speaker 1: the scenes story for another day. We'll get to that
18:02
Speaker 1: in the off season. Wanted to get to the on
18:03
Speaker 1: field product here, Dan, we got to jump. But great stuff, man,
18:06
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us, and good luck with the complaint
18:09
Speaker 1: line over there where. It'll be all about the twins
18:11
Speaker 1: and the flights are traveling. Everything's good right now. Flights
18:14
Speaker 1: are storing Delta is great, all
18:17
Speaker 2: Right, guys, thanks for having me.