Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 2/27/26: Zohran Flawless Trump Victory, 1st AI Mass Layoff, Anthropic DEFIES Hegseth

Transcript

2/27/26: Zohran Flawless Trump Victory, 1st AI Mass Layoff, Anthropic DEFIES Hegseth · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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0:30
Speaker 3: Good morning, guys, Happy.
0:31
Speaker 4: Friday, Happy Friday Friday.
0:34
Speaker 2: Yet another commy takeover. This is a fun week for
0:38
Speaker 2: US comrades.
0:39
Speaker 4: Yes, indeed, no both sizing here. Maybe Griffin, are you?
0:43
Speaker 4: If we got the Menshevik the Bolsheviks, you're the Actually
0:47
Speaker 4: I'll do Kerensky. So we have all three sides of
0:49
Speaker 4: the center left to.
0:51
Speaker 5: Left, comforting. That's good, that's good.
0:53
Speaker 6: I identify as a political podcaster, sort of an umpire
0:58
Speaker 6: in the meetings, in the struggle sessions, uh fair and
1:01
Speaker 6: baalam balls, strikes, fouls, all that good stuff trophies.
1:06
Speaker 5: So big show today.
1:08
Speaker 6: Speaking of a COMMI takeover, there's been a comedy takeover
1:10
Speaker 6: once again at the White House with one mister Mum
1:13
Speaker 6: Donnie and mister Donald Trump.
1:15
Speaker 5: Crystal. What happened yesterday?
1:18
Speaker 2: Well, first, while I'm talking, you gotta pull up the
1:21
Speaker 2: picture of Trumpet and because it is it is art.
1:25
Speaker 2: I mean, this is no AI. AI could never create this,
1:30
Speaker 2: imit so glorious. So what you have here is Trump
1:34
Speaker 2: seated at the resolute desk. He's holding up two newspapers,
1:39
Speaker 2: one of which is real from the past Ford to
1:41
Speaker 2: City Dropped Dead and the other one which Zoran mocked
1:44
Speaker 2: up and provided to him to stroke his ego. Says,
1:47
Speaker 2: Trump to City, let's build. And Zoran is standing over
1:51
Speaker 2: him looking, you know, not really smiling, but looking sort
1:54
Speaker 2: of commanding in control, and Trump just the biggest cheesiest
1:58
Speaker 2: grin on his face, like we ate this shit of
2:02
Speaker 2: and lo and.
2:03
Speaker 3: Behold, you know.
2:04
Speaker 2: Zorn comes out and says, look, we had a very
2:05
Speaker 2: productive meeting Trump. I guess last time they met, which
2:09
Speaker 2: of course was you know, started the romance, had said,
2:11
Speaker 2: bring me some ideas for how you could build or
2:13
Speaker 2: ones like here, you go, here's what we want to do.
2:15
Speaker 2: We want to build these twelve thousand units. We want
2:18
Speaker 2: you know, federal grants to be able to do it.
2:20
Speaker 2: Trump is apparently open to the to this idea. I
2:24
Speaker 2: think it's like twenty one billion dollars that we need
2:26
Speaker 2: from the federal government to pull that off. And the
2:29
Speaker 2: other thing, very significant is there was this Columbia University
2:33
Speaker 2: student who had been arrested by immigration authorities and under
2:38
Speaker 2: really under false pretenses, they accessed her dorm at Columbia
2:44
Speaker 2: University by lying about looking for a missing child. The
2:47
Speaker 2: even mocked up faith fake like missing child posters, according
2:51
Speaker 2: to you know, university officials, and that's how they got
2:55
Speaker 2: in and ultimately arrested her. And so the other thing
2:57
Speaker 2: Zoron asked for is for her to be released, and
3:00
Speaker 2: you know, I think it was like within an hour
3:02
Speaker 2: she had been He also put uh to Trump. I
3:05
Speaker 2: think four others, uh, you know, cases that we've frankly
3:08
Speaker 2: been following fairly closely that he wanted Trump to look into.
3:11
Speaker 2: I think he gave those to Susie Wilds. So those
3:13
Speaker 2: continue to be undetermined whether or not action will be
3:16
Speaker 2: taken there, but just absolutely yet another incredible zoron w
3:22
Speaker 2: that you know, really goes beyond what anyone could have expected.
3:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's this Sunnyside yard, you know, so which
3:31
Speaker 4: is just massive, you know, wasteland of uh basically you know,
3:35
Speaker 4: a huge train yard, and they're saying build on top
3:39
Speaker 4: of it, right if I am some understanding the idea, Yeah,
3:41
Speaker 4: that's the.
3:42
Speaker 2: Idea is to put like a thing over it that
3:45
Speaker 2: you could then build on, and a lot of the
3:47
Speaker 2: housing would be, you know, for people who are kind
3:50
Speaker 2: of in New York, they have a law that helps
3:53
Speaker 2: to support people who are making too much money to
3:56
Speaker 2: be in public housing but can't afford market rates, and
4:00
Speaker 2: obviously there's a lot of people that fall into that category,
4:02
Speaker 2: and so a lot of this housing would go to
4:05
Speaker 2: those type of working in middle class folks.
4:07
Speaker 6: Twenty one billion in federal grants, and this is a
4:10
Speaker 6: big area out in Queen's Yeah, absolutely outrageous. What do
4:15
Speaker 6: you guys think is this? Is this a handshake deal
4:17
Speaker 6: that's going to go through?
4:21
Speaker 4: I mean, we'll see. It's like you got to start somewhere, right,
4:25
Speaker 4: that's right.
4:26
Speaker 3: I mean Zorn like Trump.
4:29
Speaker 2: Trump's trum, Yeah, I mean Zorn played precisely into Trump's personality, right,
4:35
Speaker 2: the egotism, Like he loves New York I'm having his
4:39
Speaker 2: face on a newspaper, loves a young, handsome, charismatic star
4:43
Speaker 2: with Zoron and uh, you know, and loves building stuff.
4:47
Speaker 2: So he's like, all right, you want to you want
4:49
Speaker 2: to work together on building, Let's do this. Look at
4:51
Speaker 2: how the public would love you, you know, look at
4:53
Speaker 2: the way the newspapers would report this. And I saw
4:57
Speaker 2: there was a meme going around that was like, you know, Zoron,
4:59
Speaker 2: let's make deal. You get one fake newspaper cover, I
5:04
Speaker 2: get twelve thousand housing units, and you know, a student
5:07
Speaker 2: released from ice attention.
5:10
Speaker 4: Yeah good, it's gonna be it'd be great. And you know,
5:14
Speaker 4: I can't imagine that the nimbies are gonna want to
5:17
Speaker 4: stop this. It's like, right now, it's a rail yard,
5:21
Speaker 4: like you want to maintain your beautiful view of the
5:24
Speaker 4: rail yard, like I'm sure some people will have set out.
5:27
Speaker 4: I had a view that now is being blocked. But like,
5:29
Speaker 4: all right, this feels like doable.
5:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.
5:33
Speaker 6: When I saw how much Trump enjoyed the newspapers, I
5:38
Speaker 6: thought that was something his team made. And then I
5:40
Speaker 6: was like, Oh, it's so genius for the Zoron team
5:42
Speaker 6: to come in with props, and yeah, I just I
5:46
Speaker 6: thought that was amazing. We also do have an image
5:48
Speaker 6: of the Columbia student here that I just found.
5:52
Speaker 5: This is her.
5:53
Speaker 6: She was at least after like one day any any
5:57
Speaker 6: garbets Crystal.
5:59
Speaker 3: I mean, her.
6:00
Speaker 2: Being extremely beautiful certainly didn't hurt her case.
6:03
Speaker 3: And I mean, just.
6:04
Speaker 2: Based on how savvy Zoron's been, Trump clearly loves beautiful people,
6:08
Speaker 2: men and women. By the way, I mean that's part
6:10
Speaker 2: of the bromance with Zoran is clearly he thinks, like,
6:12
Speaker 2: look at this young handsome guy, and I want to be.
6:15
Speaker 3: Associated with that.
6:17
Speaker 2: So I totally would can imagine so On being in
6:20
Speaker 2: there like, you know, this young beautiful, brilliant girl, Sir, sir,
6:25
Speaker 2: I'm sure this isn't what you would have wanted. Can
6:28
Speaker 2: you please look into her case, you know, putting it
6:30
Speaker 2: to him like this isn't you right, This isn't what
6:32
Speaker 2: you would do.
6:33
Speaker 4: Man, you don't say anything, I think if you're Zoron,
6:36
Speaker 4: but you show a glam shot here she is. This
6:41
Speaker 4: is who we're trying to like get out and Trump. Yeah,
6:45
Speaker 4: like all right, you know what, because Trump like does
6:50
Speaker 4: he like does he does he even like care about
6:54
Speaker 4: anyone else? Like no, not at all, Like that's what's crazy.
6:58
Speaker 4: Somebody calls her was like, what we're rating depots or
7:00
Speaker 4: raiding farms, raading hotels, Steven stop it.
7:04
Speaker 6: It's like one of the things that's like sinking him
7:06
Speaker 6: in the polls, and he's like barely aware of it,
7:08
Speaker 6: but he is aware, like in the moment that his
7:11
Speaker 6: polls are down, and so he's glomming onto someone he
7:14
Speaker 6: knows is hot, someone he knows who's got motion right now.
7:17
Speaker 5: Which is Zorn.
7:18
Speaker 6: So it's really clear that Trump really enjoys these meetings
7:21
Speaker 6: and likes glaming onto people who are on the up
7:24
Speaker 6: as opposed to him who seems to be in a
7:25
Speaker 6: study to climb.
7:27
Speaker 2: It was such a funny moment in the State of
7:29
Speaker 2: the Union, where you know, they've written in this line
7:31
Speaker 2: that was supposed to be like an attack against the
7:33
Speaker 2: communist mayor of New York City, and Trump can't help
7:36
Speaker 2: but deliver it without He's like the communist mayor who's
7:39
Speaker 2: actually a nice guy.
7:40
Speaker 3: I actually really like him. We spent a lot of
7:42
Speaker 3: time together.
7:42
Speaker 2: Like he can't even get through the one negative line
7:45
Speaker 2: about him without being like, you know, he's actually good guy.
7:48
Speaker 2: I actually like this guy. So I don't know, Zarl's
7:51
Speaker 2: got some kind of magical charm. I won't be the
7:52
Speaker 2: first to say it's a goddamn shame that the constitution
7:55
Speaker 2: bars him for running for president because the level of
7:59
Speaker 2: charm and skill that this man has demonstrated, both from
8:04
Speaker 2: you know, just political acumen to delivering I mean, when
8:08
Speaker 2: the rubber hit the road, he was like, Okay, we
8:11
Speaker 2: are going to deliver on our promises.
8:13
Speaker 3: I'm going to be out in the streets. People are
8:14
Speaker 3: going to see me.
8:15
Speaker 2: They're going to notice basic things like you know, the
8:18
Speaker 2: snow is getting removed and in an extraordinary way. And
8:22
Speaker 2: I'm making good on my promises with regard to you know,
8:25
Speaker 2: access to childcare and these other things. So you know,
8:29
Speaker 2: we talked about the rent, freezing the rent. He's able
8:32
Speaker 2: to accomplish that now too, So it truly is extraordinary.
8:36
Speaker 2: And you know, there have been some political decisions that
8:39
Speaker 2: he's made and I'm like, I'm not sure about like
8:41
Speaker 2: backing Hakeem Jefferies or opposing his primary cannon.
8:43
Speaker 3: Now I'm like, listen, you know what you're doing.
8:47
Speaker 2: I default to you your judgment much more than mine
8:50
Speaker 2: because of the demonstrated track record on the ground and
8:55
Speaker 2: the things he's been able to accomplish that are just
8:57
Speaker 2: already extraordinary. We were talking before where we started about
9:01
Speaker 2: there's like this whole right wing critique of the snow
9:05
Speaker 2: shoveling program, and for those that don't know, Zorn put
9:08
Speaker 2: outs of people are made, you know, one of his
9:10
Speaker 2: trademark videos and was like, look, we want emergency snow shovelers.
9:13
Speaker 2: It's gonna be thirty five bucks an hour. I think
9:15
Speaker 2: it originally started what at twenty and then he uped
9:17
Speaker 2: it to thirty five, and you know, come on out,
9:20
Speaker 2: bring your ID, we'll get you signed up with the
9:22
Speaker 2: city government. You can come and help out. And clearly
9:26
Speaker 2: this is a big part of why the snow removal
9:29
Speaker 2: operation was so incredibly effective. That it was so effective
9:34
Speaker 2: that there were people sharing photos like I don't even
9:36
Speaker 2: think it's snown like this is this is a lie
9:39
Speaker 2: or this can't be from this time, because there's just
9:41
Speaker 2: there's no way that they were able to get this done.
9:44
Speaker 2: So the program is stunningly effective. You're hiring people, you're
9:48
Speaker 2: creating jobs that are actually beneficial of the community. And
9:51
Speaker 2: the first knock on it was, oh, they need ID
9:54
Speaker 2: to shovel snow, but you don't want them to have
9:57
Speaker 2: ID at the polls, just like Okay, So they did
10:01
Speaker 2: that one, and now people are sharing videos of like,
10:04
Speaker 2: you know, it'll be like seven guys all working together
10:07
Speaker 2: on a corner and they're like, you know, oh, this
10:09
Speaker 2: make work socialist program?
10:11
Speaker 3: How dare you?
10:12
Speaker 2: And I just hope, you know, I think this critique
10:15
Speaker 2: is really smart and savvy. I hope they continue talking
10:18
Speaker 2: about zoron Mam Donnie creating jobs for Americans and like,
10:22
Speaker 2: you know, hiring them to do useful things in the
10:24
Speaker 2: city that benefit their communities. I think this is a
10:27
Speaker 2: big Like I'm devastated by this critique, and I hope
10:29
Speaker 2: they continue it.
10:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, libs of TikTok is on such a such a downslope.
10:35
Speaker 4: It's like they had talk about motion, like a couple
10:38
Speaker 4: of years ago, they had some serious motion. Like last night,
10:43
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, sixteen guys on a corner shoveling snow, Like, yeah,
10:48
Speaker 4: you ever shovel snow? Like if it's one guy in
10:51
Speaker 4: the corner, like you're gonna have to wait for the
10:54
Speaker 4: spring for it to melt like sixteen trouble bit faster
10:58
Speaker 4: it standing around. Yeah, well it's hard. Sometimes you take
11:01
Speaker 4: a break like relax. Also, you ever go buy a
11:04
Speaker 4: construction site. Sometimes people are like leaning on a shovel
11:07
Speaker 4: like it happens.
11:08
Speaker 6: This also comes during snowball Gate, which was a snowball
11:12
Speaker 6: fight happening in Washington Square Park where some cops were
11:15
Speaker 6: hit with snowballs, maybe maybe some ice balls, who knows,
11:18
Speaker 6: these could be hard snowballs. But the NYPD commissioner came
11:23
Speaker 6: out and gave an all hands on deck a statement
11:26
Speaker 6: say we're going to have to catch the people who
11:28
Speaker 6: did this the right and the Zionists were like New York.
11:31
Speaker 5: City's falling apart.
11:32
Speaker 6: And I think what's so great about Zorn is a
11:35
Speaker 6: he didn't take the bait on it and was like, no,
11:37
Speaker 6: I'm not going to ban snowball fights from New York City.
11:40
Speaker 6: But then he also flooded the zone with like real news,
11:43
Speaker 6: so he's like, not only am I not taking the bait,
11:45
Speaker 6: but actually we're actually doing like real stuff here. And
11:48
Speaker 6: I think that's so great because and you kind of
11:50
Speaker 6: need both to completely disqualify these stupid criticisms. And while
11:55
Speaker 6: we were talking about aesthetics, there's one more aesthetic that
11:58
Speaker 6: I had, like.
12:00
Speaker 4: Their little ballet move that he had on it was
12:02
Speaker 4: he when he finally did put a statement out about it,
12:05
Speaker 4: his last line was something like if anybody, if you're
12:08
Speaker 4: gonna throw a snowball at anybody, throw it at me,
12:11
Speaker 4: completely emasculating to the cops because he's telling them, look,
12:15
Speaker 4: they can't they can't take this.
12:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a subtle way of being like, you know,
12:21
Speaker 2: because he did the things like look, guys, city workers including.
12:24
Speaker 5: Cops, are out and working hard.
12:27
Speaker 2: But if anyone's going to take a snowball, it should
12:29
Speaker 2: be me, which is a subtle way of being like
12:31
Speaker 2: come on, you guys have this soft like you can't
12:33
Speaker 2: even take a snowball.
12:34
Speaker 3: I'll fine, I'll take the snowball. Don't worry about it.
12:36
Speaker 4: Like what I've told my kids, like if you if
12:39
Speaker 4: you're so angry you really need to hit somebody, like
12:41
Speaker 4: hit me, hit me, I'll take it, because it doesn't
12:46
Speaker 4: work when they.
12:47
Speaker 3: Have they've done it.
12:50
Speaker 4: Orthing, it's like fine, like if they're really don't take
12:53
Speaker 4: go ahead, go ahead, good and then like they feel
12:56
Speaker 4: better then, and it's better than them hitting their hitting
12:58
Speaker 4: their sibling who can't take it. So that's that's kind
13:02
Speaker 4: of the same thing mom Donnie did. It's like, if
13:04
Speaker 4: you're angry, hit me.
13:06
Speaker 3: New segment Ryan's parenting tips.
13:08
Speaker 6: Pitch that to Miss Rachel and you know, while we're
13:11
Speaker 6: talking about advice, but when you're talking about ballet moves
13:16
Speaker 6: and masculinity. And I had to flag this one last
13:19
Speaker 6: moment about another aesthetic choice that Zora made, which was
13:23
Speaker 6: bringing this guy into the White House. His spokesperson Joe Cavello,
13:28
Speaker 6: who of course is like Central casting perfect for Trump,
13:33
Speaker 6: look at this double breasted.
13:34
Speaker 5: Suit and President asked me to come back with some
13:37
Speaker 5: big ideas how we can build things together here in
13:40
Speaker 5: New York City. And that's what he did today.
13:42
Speaker 6: Mary took him up from this offer and went to
13:44
Speaker 6: DC Delay to pitch him about a possible project in
13:47
Speaker 6: New York City that could deliver one of the biggest
13:49
Speaker 6: federal investments in housing for the past fifty years. Boom, so,
13:54
Speaker 6: I don't know just everything about it as a masterclass,
13:57
Speaker 6: like bring a guy in that you know Trump is
13:59
Speaker 6: going to fall in love with.
14:00
Speaker 5: Uh. Incredible stuff.
14:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we we know, we know Joe.
14:05
Speaker 2: Joe has been on a lot of different campaigns, and
14:08
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sure gonna be a great spoke.
14:10
Speaker 4: Was he was? He left, Uh, he left grand Partner's
14:12
Speaker 4: campaign to join Zorn.
14:15
Speaker 6: Actually, I don't think that suit would have fit on
14:17
Speaker 6: an oyster boat.
14:18
Speaker 4: But if he's on his, he's on his Fetterman redemption tour.
14:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.
14:23
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, in fairness, many did not see where
14:26
Speaker 2: that was going, myself included.
14:27
Speaker 3: So yeah, you just need to be on that redemption tour.
14:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say, Graham's partner and zoron Mom Donnie a
14:35
Speaker 2: pretty good way to reclaim your cred there.
14:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, Well moving on, let's do some bad
14:43
Speaker 5: news now.
14:45
Speaker 6: So we've got uh block stock here, which correct me
14:48
Speaker 6: if I'm wrong, is block a I, which is Jack
14:52
Speaker 6: from Twitter's company?
14:53
Speaker 5: Is that correct? Crystal Jack Dorsey?
14:56
Speaker 6: So uh, Jack Dorsey uh cut of his workforce over
15:03
Speaker 6: the last twenty four hours, and the stock is now
15:08
Speaker 6: shooting through the roof Crystal.
15:10
Speaker 5: What does this mean?
15:12
Speaker 2: Well, not only did he cut forty percent of his
15:15
Speaker 2: workforce all at once, but he put on a statement
15:18
Speaker 2: that said effectively like look, we saw the writing on
15:21
Speaker 2: the wall, these jobs are going to go and so
15:23
Speaker 2: because of AI, and so we had a choice.
15:27
Speaker 3: We could either do this sort.
15:28
Speaker 2: Of dribbling them ount over a longer timeframe, or we
15:31
Speaker 2: could just do it all in one fell swoop. And
15:33
Speaker 2: he talks about, you know, we're going to give them
15:35
Speaker 2: twenty weeks plus one week per year of tenure of
15:38
Speaker 2: their salaries so they have time to adjust, blah blah blah.
15:40
Speaker 2: But basically, we just decided to do the one fell
15:43
Speaker 2: swoop approach and cut forty percent of our labor force.
15:47
Speaker 2: And then, you know, predictably, but it's still noteworthy the
15:51
Speaker 2: you know, like the stock market loves when you lay
15:54
Speaker 2: off workers. So for other companies that are looking at,
15:58
Speaker 2: you know, how to approach the AI era, it sounds
16:01
Speaker 2: a pretty strong signal that if you're mass doing mass layoffs,
16:06
Speaker 2: your stock price is going to be pretty significantly rewarded. Now,
16:10
Speaker 2: I will say I'm not an expert or analyst. I
16:13
Speaker 2: really know nothing about this company, Okay except what I
16:15
Speaker 2: was reading on Twitter yesterday. But I saw some people
16:17
Speaker 2: who were saying, like, yeah, well, what's really going on
16:20
Speaker 2: here is that he over hired during COVID and now
16:23
Speaker 2: he's using AI as an excuse to get rid of
16:27
Speaker 2: the excess of labor force that he really didn't mean.
16:29
Speaker 2: Now he directly disputed that and said, no, that's not
16:31
Speaker 2: what's going on. Look at you know, our productivity levels
16:34
Speaker 2: and how much bang we're getting for the buck of
16:36
Speaker 2: all of our workers.
16:36
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
16:38
Speaker 2: But in a sense, I think it's kind of irrelevant
16:40
Speaker 2: because the point here is really the market signal. The
16:43
Speaker 2: story that is out now is when you do these
16:46
Speaker 2: mass layoffs, it will create a massive reward. And then
16:49
Speaker 2: the other piece of this is there is just simply
16:52
Speaker 2: no doubt. And I know there are still people that
16:54
Speaker 2: are in denial about this, but there is just simply
16:56
Speaker 2: no doubt that with the advent of Claude, code mode
17:00
Speaker 2: and cloud Cowork and where AI is today, there is
17:04
Speaker 2: going to be significant disruption. How quick, what fields? You know,
17:10
Speaker 2: what's the uptake in terms of it takes large organizations
17:13
Speaker 2: a while to figure out how they can do this.
17:15
Speaker 2: Do people do mass layoffs or do they just let
17:18
Speaker 2: people you know, naturally move on to other jobs and
17:20
Speaker 2: they just don't rehire. That's still all kind of an
17:23
Speaker 2: open question, but that's why this particular move is really
17:26
Speaker 2: significant because this puts some you know, pushes some chips
17:31
Speaker 2: to the side of companies are just going to start
17:33
Speaker 2: doing mass layoffs and this could accelerate really really quickly.
17:38
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and this is not a small company, right,
17:41
Speaker 4: this is square and like this is this is not
17:45
Speaker 4: these are not just like Jack Dorsey's like side hobbies
17:49
Speaker 4: like this.
17:49
Speaker 5: Is right, it was made ten thousand employees.
17:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's huge, especially for a tech company. So yeah,
17:57
Speaker 4: this is I just just yeah, completely really crystol And
18:03
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, the left in particular is going to
18:06
Speaker 4: need to come up with serious solutions to this crisis
18:12
Speaker 4: that are going to require going beyond like the baseline
18:16
Speaker 4: has to be some obvious things like Medicare for all,
18:19
Speaker 4: Like that's an easy one. Like it's even easier as
18:23
Speaker 4: you're heading into you know, mass unemployment, like everybody needs
18:27
Speaker 4: health care, like okay, so that that's an easy one.
18:31
Speaker 4: Green jobs, easy one like that. So there's some there's
18:34
Speaker 4: some like left wing ideas that easily kind of translate
18:36
Speaker 4: into this era. But then there's there's going to need
18:39
Speaker 4: to be a lot of creative thinking too about what
18:42
Speaker 4: can you do in in a moment of possibilities that
18:47
Speaker 4: has opened up by a rupture of this degree, like
18:51
Speaker 4: if you do have mass unemployment coupled with like mass
18:56
Speaker 4: fear about where things are headed, coupled with rage at billionaires,
19:01
Speaker 4: like what what can what can you offer to those
19:04
Speaker 4: people that isn't dystopian mass surveillance and and like incarceration
19:10
Speaker 4: and a police and a miseration, because that's that's that's
19:14
Speaker 4: the other thing that will be on offer.
19:16
Speaker 2: So the offer currently, as best I can tell from
19:19
Speaker 2: this administration is the you know, the mass surveillance and
19:23
Speaker 2: police state, and you know the the one point five
19:26
Speaker 2: trillion dollar defense budget, Like that's that's the We'll keep
19:29
Speaker 2: everybody in line using guns and surveillance, right. And then
19:33
Speaker 2: the other thing is this sort of like lotto casino
19:36
Speaker 2: economy where we don't have the American dream is dead,
19:40
Speaker 2: like no one believes anymore can just work hard and
19:42
Speaker 2: get ahead, especially not with AI. So instead we're gonna
19:46
Speaker 2: hold out to you, dangle in front of you the
19:48
Speaker 2: possibility that maybe, as the example I've used before, maybe
19:52
Speaker 2: you'll get cast is the grass in Bad Bunnies halftime
19:54
Speaker 2: show and know who the singer is going to be
19:56
Speaker 2: and be able to cash in on polymarket. Maybe your
19:58
Speaker 2: parlay is gonna hit this time, like maybe maybe you
20:02
Speaker 2: just you really know a lot about uh basketball, and
20:05
Speaker 2: you're going to be able to work that out, and
20:07
Speaker 2: that's how you're going to be able to succeed.
20:09
Speaker 4: And so it's still coin you pick like is gonna
20:12
Speaker 4: blow up and you get out before the rug.
20:13
Speaker 2: That's right, You're you're gonna pick the right meme, you know,
20:16
Speaker 2: shit coin, and you're gonna you're gonna be one of
20:18
Speaker 2: the lucky few that makes it big before the before
20:22
Speaker 2: the rug. So, uh, that's really the thing that is
20:26
Speaker 2: being offered. And of course we all know that, and
20:29
Speaker 2: most people, I think intellectually know that those things overall
20:33
Speaker 2: are deeply they're extremely predatory, you know, and the vast, vast, vast,
20:37
Speaker 2: vast vast majority of people are going to be net
20:41
Speaker 2: losers in a big way with all of those things.
20:44
Speaker 2: But that's the new the new American dream that is
20:46
Speaker 2: being offered by this administration is like, you know, just
20:51
Speaker 2: a roll of the dice, right, a pull of the
20:54
Speaker 2: slot machine. Some hope and a prayer and a wish
20:56
Speaker 2: and a dream and a fantasy that your crypto coin
20:59
Speaker 2: is gonna hit, Your parlay is going to hit. You're
21:01
Speaker 2: going to stumble upon some side of some sort of
21:03
Speaker 2: insider information because you know, there was a world, I
21:08
Speaker 2: guess more in the Bannonite lane where you could imagine
21:11
Speaker 2: them creating some sort of social safety net that at
21:13
Speaker 2: least applies to like their quote unquote heritage Americans. But
21:16
Speaker 2: they're not even bothering to do that. So it's even
21:19
Speaker 2: I mean, it's you know, it's it's deeply dystopian what
21:22
Speaker 2: is on off or there. So it shouldn't be hard
21:25
Speaker 2: for the left to come up with a different deal, like, Okay,
21:28
Speaker 2: we're ripping up the social contract, let's do it, but
21:30
Speaker 2: let's come up with something where people are going to
21:32
Speaker 2: actually benefit, where we're gonna have control, human control, like democratic,
21:36
Speaker 2: small d democratic control over this technology, so that it's
21:39
Speaker 2: not deployed just for the benefit of a few capitalists,
21:42
Speaker 2: but it's going to be deployed for the benefit of
21:44
Speaker 2: you know, of human beings, which is not the direction
21:47
Speaker 2: we're headed in right now. But it's going to require
21:49
Speaker 2: a lot, a lot of big thinking. You know, going
21:52
Speaker 2: back to this mass layoff, maybe this is like a
21:56
Speaker 2: kind of a horrible thing to say, but we were talking.
21:59
Speaker 2: We've talked before about how you need some sort of
22:01
Speaker 2: a shocking event to wake people up and to get
22:04
Speaker 2: them to take this stuff seriously. And in a sense,
22:07
Speaker 2: I'm actually more afraid of the other scenario that Jack
22:10
Speaker 2: laid out of, Like I could have done it slowly
22:13
Speaker 2: over time, but I kind of thought it was better
22:15
Speaker 2: to rip the band aid off because if you have
22:17
Speaker 2: a displacement that is large but still in the scale
22:21
Speaker 2: of things we've lived through historically, there is going to
22:25
Speaker 2: be a lot less political incentive to act. There's going
22:28
Speaker 2: to be a lot more storytelling about like, oh, well,
22:31
Speaker 2: you know, the professionals who were really skilled made it.
22:33
Speaker 2: So just work a little harder, just like college degree,
22:35
Speaker 2: a little harder, Just get in your grindset and you'll
22:38
Speaker 2: be fine. Whereas if we have something that is truly
22:42
Speaker 2: you know, unprecedent or approaching unprecedent, or cataclysmic, where you know,
22:45
Speaker 2: the jobs are shedding and there can't be any story
22:47
Speaker 2: around why it's your fault you lost your job, that's
22:50
Speaker 2: when we're much more likely to get actual political action
22:53
Speaker 2: and some sort of coalition together. I mean, I really like,
22:56
Speaker 2: I hope you guys know, I hate talking that way,
22:58
Speaker 2: but I think that's it. The the riskier situation is
23:01
Speaker 2: actually where you end up in the same place, but
23:04
Speaker 2: it's a slow drip, and so there's no one moment
23:07
Speaker 2: where people are really galvanized to come together and make
23:11
Speaker 2: you know, a new social contract, which is what we need.
23:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're all acceleration iss now, I guess, well sort of,
23:19
Speaker 6: it's a different kind of it because, yeah, the.
23:24
Speaker 4: Old accelerationism never stipulated that without it you could have
23:31
Speaker 4: human extinction. Like that's a significant difference. Like the old
23:34
Speaker 4: accelerationism was like the contradictions embedded within the system are
23:39
Speaker 4: going to lead to some sort of revolution eventually, so
23:43
Speaker 4: we might as well just accelerate it and do it. Now,
23:46
Speaker 4: the timeline spat up the timeline. The new one is saying,
23:50
Speaker 4: if we don't do something, we might add like like
23:53
Speaker 4: these ais might nuke the planet and that's it. So
23:58
Speaker 4: we need to stop. You're not so it's not accelerations
24:01
Speaker 4: because you're not trying to bring the future forward. You're
24:03
Speaker 4: trying to stave off a potential future deviationism in a different.
24:09
Speaker 5: Deceleration deviationism, pump the brakes ism. Uh for sure, but.
24:16
Speaker 4: It can't just be pumped the brakes. You have to
24:17
Speaker 4: actually detour also, like you to hear off the road
24:21
Speaker 4: that we're on.
24:22
Speaker 3: Mm hmm yeah.
24:24
Speaker 2: But for now, I do think the you know, the
24:26
Speaker 2: most important work is just how can we slow things down?
24:30
Speaker 2: How can we resist the Data Center?
24:31
Speaker 3: Is?
24:31
Speaker 2: How can we slow things down? Because this administration is
24:33
Speaker 2: not going to do anything.
24:34
Speaker 3: I mean, we can.
24:35
Speaker 2: This is probably good transition to the the Anthropic that
24:38
Speaker 2: fight with the Pentagon, which we've been covering because I
24:41
Speaker 2: think it's so important and so significant. You have the
24:45
Speaker 2: stakes here are Anthropic, which model clawed is used extensively
24:49
Speaker 2: by the Pentagon. They have a two one hundred million
24:51
Speaker 2: dollar contract and they believe. Their belief is that it's
24:56
Speaker 2: really important to work with the US government because it's
24:58
Speaker 2: much better for a democratic country to achieve AGI or
25:02
Speaker 2: superintelligence first. So they're all in on like the War
25:05
Speaker 2: Ai war against China. They're perfectly happy, like work with
25:09
Speaker 2: Palenteer and get this Pentagon contract.
25:11
Speaker 3: Okay, so these are not like, you know, super.
25:14
Speaker 2: Hippy dippy like whatever, but they had two red lines.
25:18
Speaker 2: One of them is we don't want our tech used
25:20
Speaker 2: for mass surveillance of Americans, and number two, we don't
25:24
Speaker 2: want to use for autonomous killer robots, like no autonomous
25:28
Speaker 2: death machines. And then Pentagon said, absolutely not, and if
25:32
Speaker 2: you don't comply, we are going to either use the
25:35
Speaker 2: Defense Production Act to deem your technology essential and just
25:39
Speaker 2: take it, or we're going to deem it a supply
25:42
Speaker 2: chain risk. And as Dario is pointing out, like these
25:44
Speaker 2: two things are directly contradictory, but anyway, for that aside
25:47
Speaker 2: a supply chain risk, we're going to cancel your contract
25:51
Speaker 2: and we're going to make it so all of our
25:53
Speaker 2: other contractors cannot use your product, which would be you know,
25:56
Speaker 2: a massive economic hit because of course every large company
25:59
Speaker 2: works with the Pentagon effectively.
26:02
Speaker 3: So today is the deadline.
26:04
Speaker 2: And yesterday Dario put out a statement saying that you know, no,
26:09
Speaker 2: we're we're.
26:09
Speaker 3: Not going to comply like this.
26:11
Speaker 2: They they tried to the Pentagon tried to say, well,
26:14
Speaker 2: we won't use it for any unlawful purposes, and Anthropics said, well,
26:18
Speaker 2: that's really not good enough because technically, like the law
26:22
Speaker 2: has not caught up to reflect the constitutional rights that
26:26
Speaker 2: Americans actually have. And on the Fourth Amendment, it's you know,
26:29
Speaker 2: the clarest cut where it's like, yeah, technically it's not
26:33
Speaker 2: illegal for you to use and collect all of this
26:36
Speaker 2: information that exists and use AI to collate it, but
26:40
Speaker 2: it clearly is a violation of the Fourth Amendment. So
26:43
Speaker 2: you just saying that you're not technically going to violate
26:46
Speaker 2: the law with it is really not good enough. So no,
26:49
Speaker 2: we refuse, and you know, and that's kind of where
26:52
Speaker 2: we are. I just saw an update this morning from
26:54
Speaker 2: Sam Oltman is saying we're going to see if there's
26:57
Speaker 2: a deal with the Department of War that allows all
27:00
Speaker 2: models to be deployed in classified environments that fits with
27:02
Speaker 2: our principles. So Altman trying to get in there, we'd
27:05
Speaker 2: ask for the contract to cover any use except except
27:08
Speaker 2: those which are unlawful or unsuited to cloud deployment, such
27:10
Speaker 2: as domestic surveillance and autonomous offensive weapons. I don't know
27:13
Speaker 2: how they're thinking they're going to draw the line in
27:15
Speaker 2: a different place than Anthropic did. But Sam Altman, trying
27:18
Speaker 2: to get in on this Elon of course already was like, Oh,
27:20
Speaker 2: I have no principles.
27:21
Speaker 3: Don't worry, I'll do whatever you want to sign me up.
27:25
Speaker 2: But my understanding is that you know, Claude has already
27:28
Speaker 2: been implemented in a lot of these in all these
27:30
Speaker 2: classified systems, and Claude is the most effective, Like it's
27:35
Speaker 2: it's the best product for what they.
27:36
Speaker 3: Want to accomplish.
27:38
Speaker 2: So it's not so simple to just like flip the
27:40
Speaker 2: switch from you know, Claude to Grock or you know,
27:44
Speaker 2: chat Jubut or whatever. So it will be messy for
27:49
Speaker 2: them to untangle. So that means Anthropic has a little
27:51
Speaker 2: bit of leverage here. But the quote that I saw
27:53
Speaker 2: from some senior military official quota by Axios was like, Yeah,
27:56
Speaker 2: it's going to be messy, and because of that, we
27:58
Speaker 2: are going to make them pay for doing this.
28:02
Speaker 4: And so the hexeth had threatened the Defense Production Act,
28:06
Speaker 4: which Trump has shown willingness to use. He just used
28:10
Speaker 4: the DPA, which is a law that allows the government
28:14
Speaker 4: to force a private company to produce something if it's
28:18
Speaker 4: in national security interests of the country. He just did
28:20
Speaker 4: it for Roundup. Bizarrely, he told Monsanto, which is owned
28:24
Speaker 4: by Bear, you need to make more more round up
28:27
Speaker 4: and we need more phosphorus. Phosphorus is it is an
28:30
Speaker 4: issue that the US has round up?
28:33
Speaker 5: Huh?
28:34
Speaker 4: Anyway, we need we need more cancer.
28:36
Speaker 3: That's what we need, need more.
28:38
Speaker 4: So, they threatened that they would use the Defense Production
28:41
Speaker 4: Act to require Cloud Claude to work with the Pentagon.
28:46
Speaker 4: That would lead to an interesting court case where you
28:49
Speaker 4: would then have to litigate whether the Pentagon's demand is legal,
28:53
Speaker 4: Like if and if and if their claim that this
28:56
Speaker 4: thing will kill people without due process and will surveil
28:59
Speaker 4: people in violation of the Fourth Amendment is true, then
29:01
Speaker 4: it's hard to see how you can compel the government
29:05
Speaker 4: can then legally compel anybody to break the Constitution.
29:10
Speaker 3: Well, it is.
29:11
Speaker 2: I do want to underscore what I was saying before,
29:13
Speaker 2: the contradiction between these two different paths that they've laid out,
29:16
Speaker 2: either the Defense Production Act or deeming it a supply
29:19
Speaker 2: chain risk. So it looks like they're going in the
29:22
Speaker 2: direction of supply chain risk. I think, probably precisely for
29:25
Speaker 2: the reasons that you lay out, Ryan, that it would
29:27
Speaker 2: be legally tenuous and they'd have a pretty good case
29:30
Speaker 2: at getting that locked. And you know, the courts are
29:34
Speaker 2: very even up to the Supreme Court, as we saw
29:36
Speaker 2: with Terris, like, they're very pro business. So I think
29:39
Speaker 2: I think Anthropic could have a pretty good shot at
29:42
Speaker 2: winning that case. But if you do the Defense Production Act,
29:45
Speaker 2: what you're arguing is that they're essential to national security.
29:48
Speaker 2: If you do the supply chain Risk, you're arguing they're
29:51
Speaker 2: a detriment. They're a risk to national security. So the
29:55
Speaker 2: fact that those are the two paths that they're choosing from,
29:57
Speaker 2: it's like it's either essential or it's terrible. And it
30:01
Speaker 2: looks like they're going to go in the direction of
30:03
Speaker 2: saying that it's this is terrible for for national security.
30:05
Speaker 3: But I mean, we'll see.
30:06
Speaker 2: They may, they may taco right, they may, especially as
30:09
Speaker 2: we're on the cusp of war with Ron as it
30:12
Speaker 2: appears you're going to be changing out this system that
30:15
Speaker 2: you you know, really rely on at this point and
30:18
Speaker 2: are comfortable with, et cetera. There's a lot going on militarily.
30:21
Speaker 2: Is that really, you know, something you want to deal
30:23
Speaker 2: with right now? You really want to you really want
30:26
Speaker 2: to bring XAI and their total lack of scruples in
30:28
Speaker 2: to to fill the you know, to fill the void there.
30:32
Speaker 2: So we'll see how this all plays out, but I
30:34
Speaker 2: think it's a fairly credible threat that they'll, you know,
30:36
Speaker 2: that they will decide to wage a kind of like
30:40
Speaker 2: both UH government and ideological rhetorical war against anthropic and
30:46
Speaker 2: say this is like the woke liberal Ai and we
30:49
Speaker 2: should none of us should have anything to do with it,
30:50
Speaker 2: and it's the woke mind virus and it's going to
30:52
Speaker 2: destroy civilization, et cetera, et cetera.
30:55
Speaker 5: How much do you.
30:56
Speaker 6: Think this is like brand preservation by anthropic that like
31:00
Speaker 6: anthropics sees the Trump administration sees people like Pete Hegsath
31:04
Speaker 6: and is like, oh, like, I don't want like the
31:06
Speaker 6: anthropic like brand slapped over a drone swarm that attacks.
31:12
Speaker 5: Springfield, Ohio or something like that. Like do you think that.
31:15
Speaker 6: There's some of that where they're like, well, let grok
31:18
Speaker 6: be the ones that do like the first bad Ai
31:21
Speaker 6: incident that kills a bunch of people, Like cause you
31:23
Speaker 6: look at this administration how lawless they are and how
31:25
Speaker 6: they kind of have gone a million different directions, and
31:28
Speaker 6: it's like, oh, yeah, we easily see how like in
31:31
Speaker 6: the next year we could have the anthropic terminator, you know,
31:36
Speaker 6: I don't know, blowing up all.
31:37
Speaker 5: The boats in the Caribbean or what have you.
31:41
Speaker 4: I don't know.
31:41
Speaker 3: I think it's pretty go ahead. Ryan.
31:44
Speaker 4: No, just like that ethics and safety are central to
31:48
Speaker 4: Anthropics brand. They also just recently dropped their safety you know,
31:55
Speaker 4: the one of their key safety lines that they've been
31:58
Speaker 4: walking around with for a very long time. So yeah,
32:01
Speaker 4: I think in some ways it could be too much
32:03
Speaker 4: to do that and then follow it up with, Okay, fine,
32:06
Speaker 4: we'll do these autonomous drone swarms and mass surveillance for
32:09
Speaker 4: the Pentagon. But I think some of it is I
32:12
Speaker 4: don't know, real Like if you read Dario's writing, he's
32:15
Speaker 4: a complicated guy obviously, and you got to read everything
32:18
Speaker 4: with a grain of salt, But like it's been consistent
32:21
Speaker 4: on these questions, Yeah, so you have to credit that
32:26
Speaker 4: consistency with something.
32:28
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty hard to make a case that
32:31
Speaker 2: this decision Bianthropic is just purely like a capitalist maximizing
32:37
Speaker 2: play because the times we're timelines we're talking about now
32:42
Speaker 2: with achieving I mean, many people, myself included, I'm persuaded
32:45
Speaker 2: that we've already achieved artificial general intelligence, and people keep
32:49
Speaker 2: like moving the goalpop post and not really admit that.
32:51
Speaker 2: But I think we're already. I think we're already there,
32:54
Speaker 2: and the next milestone is super intelligence, which will be
32:57
Speaker 2: equally kind of like difficult to draw a line of
32:59
Speaker 2: like we've made it. But you know, these timelines for
33:03
Speaker 2: when these things are being achieved are extremely quick. You know,
33:07
Speaker 2: we're talking about like I'm hoping that we don't get
33:10
Speaker 2: there before the next presidential election because we need time,
33:13
Speaker 2: as we were discussing before, to develop policy framework from
33:17
Speaker 2: the left and be able to really meet the moment,
33:19
Speaker 2: and that's not going to be that's going to be
33:21
Speaker 2: a very significant task. So you know, you're looking at
33:24
Speaker 2: three more years of this administration and this is a
33:28
Speaker 2: critical moment. And if you're having a fight with the
33:31
Speaker 2: US federal government and have your contract stripped and you know,
33:35
Speaker 2: who knows what other ways they're going to screw with
33:37
Speaker 2: you and not approve whatever you need approved and block
33:41
Speaker 2: this or that merger that you're trying to do, etc.
33:44
Speaker 2: It's going to make the task of anthropic coming out
33:48
Speaker 2: on top in that AI race more difficult. And that's
33:51
Speaker 2: ultimately all of their you know, that's all of their
33:53
Speaker 2: goals and anthropic their view is like, we need to
33:56
Speaker 2: be there first because we are the only ones that
33:58
Speaker 2: have any you know, any and suppose whatsoever. And frankly,
34:02
Speaker 2: at this point, I think that's actually kind of fair
34:04
Speaker 2: that they are correct about.
34:05
Speaker 3: That, and so you know, so.
34:10
Speaker 2: I have no doubt that if the Pentagon follows through
34:13
Speaker 2: on their threats, and I believe that they could, that
34:17
Speaker 2: this will be damaging to Anthropic in terms of winning
34:20
Speaker 2: that ultimate AI race. And like I said, because of
34:23
Speaker 2: the timeframe, you know, it's they all see it as
34:28
Speaker 2: very zero sum, like whoever makes it is going to
34:32
Speaker 2: be the model. And you know, if you were just
34:35
Speaker 2: interested in my model is going to be the one
34:37
Speaker 2: to proliferate, you wouldn't care about any of the safety concerns,
34:40
Speaker 2: even though the like really dire ones you lay out
34:42
Speaker 2: Griffin of like the drones swarm attacking some American town
34:45
Speaker 2: or whatever. Being the one that gets there first is
34:49
Speaker 2: all that matters in terms of ending up on top
34:52
Speaker 2: as the dominant model.
34:56
Speaker 6: Well, that's optimistic, like it. We don't need to spend
35:03
Speaker 6: a lot of time on this story. But I think
35:05
Speaker 6: just a tag for this conversation, that is, I think
35:08
Speaker 6: thematic uh US military uses laser to take down border
35:13
Speaker 6: protection drone lawmakers saying FAA closes airspace near El Paso, Texas.
35:18
Speaker 6: It's happening again, these lasers in El Paso. UH so yeah,
35:24
Speaker 6: more of that in the future.
35:26
Speaker 4: This reverse this time. Last time it was DHS just
35:29
Speaker 4: goofing around with the with their toys. This time it
35:33
Speaker 4: may be DHS goofing around with some drone toys and
35:36
Speaker 4: not telling the military that they were doing it. And
35:39
Speaker 4: so the military military seems to have very little patience
35:42
Speaker 4: for dhs, and I think and considers them to be
35:45
Speaker 4: amateurs and.
35:46
Speaker 3: And hacks, like why would they where would they.
35:49
Speaker 4: Get where they would get that? Yeah?
35:54
Speaker 7: Yeah, the the idea that we gave the border patrol
35:59
Speaker 7: these freaking like laser weapons and whatever else they have
36:03
Speaker 7: in their arsenal is utterly terrifying, utterly terror I mean,
36:07
Speaker 7: look at these guys, like.
36:10
Speaker 3: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know, guys, I don't.
36:12
Speaker 2: Know how any of us are going to make it
36:13
Speaker 2: through this regime because these people are evil and buffoons,
36:17
Speaker 2: like the Combination, I didn't you know, it's not the
36:20
Speaker 2: movie Combination you get and Griffin you could probably speak
36:22
Speaker 2: to this usually, like the evil types are like masterminds,
36:25
Speaker 2: you know, they're they're geniuses.
36:27
Speaker 3: I've had to.
36:28
Speaker 2: Really, you know, struggle to anticipate and understand the evil idiot,
36:35
Speaker 2: not the evil genius. Mind the like evil idiot mind
36:38
Speaker 2: what does that one look like?
36:39
Speaker 3: What is that one going to bring us.
36:41
Speaker 4: Much more Cohen Brothers DHS than anything else?
36:45
Speaker 5: Yes?
36:45
Speaker 6: Yeah, whatever, it's Fargo, USA here. Well also on that, Yeah,
36:51
Speaker 6: what do you.
36:52
Speaker 4: Real quick on the Pakistan and Afghanistan are at war?
36:56
Speaker 5: Uh?
36:57
Speaker 4: People can read more about that in our newsletter or
36:59
Speaker 4: elsewhere and go find the details. But yeah, border clashes
37:04
Speaker 4: between you know, Afghanistan and Pakistan led to Pakistan then
37:07
Speaker 4: launching bombing raids on Kabble and Condahar amids against the Taliban,
37:13
Speaker 4: right against against Taliban amidst some false claims that the
37:18
Speaker 4: Supreme Leader seemed to be false claims that the Supreme
37:21
Speaker 4: Leader in Afghanistan had been killed. You there's videos going
37:25
Speaker 4: around of the Taliban kind of sacking some Pakistani bases
37:28
Speaker 4: because I think on the ground, the Pakistani military is
37:32
Speaker 4: not much of a match for Taliban. But Talban has
37:36
Speaker 4: no air force because I don't think we left the
37:37
Speaker 4: keys behind in those planes.
37:40
Speaker 3: Haven't figured out how to.
37:43
Speaker 4: Know they need Tom Cruise to Tom Cruise top Gun two.
37:48
Speaker 4: He just finds an old jet and just hops in it.
37:51
Speaker 4: And they so they need somebody like that who can
37:55
Speaker 4: figure out how to fly those without that the Pakistan's
37:58
Speaker 4: Pakistan Air Force has been striking Afghanistan. I saw some
38:03
Speaker 4: conspiracy theories that this was from that this was like
38:05
Speaker 4: that the US instructed them to do this to like
38:09
Speaker 4: to weaken after the week in the Taliban so that Iran,
38:12
Speaker 4: when Iran regime change happens, that things will be calmer
38:17
Speaker 4: on the Iran Afghanistan border. I don't see any reason
38:20
Speaker 4: to credit any of that. I feel like this has
38:23
Speaker 4: its own logic going on to it. But anyway, just letting.
38:28
Speaker 2: People maybe we didn't exactly discourage it. Maybe as one
38:30
Speaker 2: of those right.
38:32
Speaker 4: Well, Trump, this could be his what fifteenth war that
38:35
Speaker 4: he can stop he hurries up and stops.
38:38
Speaker 3: I lost count after a certain point.
38:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, you do, you do so much peace.
38:44
Speaker 6: Well, you can check out that story at drop site
38:46
Speaker 6: News this morning. I'm guessing it'll be in our newsletter.
38:49
Speaker 6: Yeah awesome. Well, we've got probably one more story to
38:53
Speaker 6: fit in the first half here. What do we want
38:55
Speaker 6: to do? Do we want to do paramount? Do we
38:57
Speaker 6: want to do this? You've been working on Kat?
39:00
Speaker 5: Also?
39:00
Speaker 4: You want to do this one real quick?
39:02
Speaker 3: Ye?
39:02
Speaker 5: Do Cat? What's going on with Kat?
39:04
Speaker 3: So we reporting.
39:06
Speaker 6: So Kat is running for Congress in Illinois, correct right, Chicago, Chicago.
39:13
Speaker 4: She just had a just had a debate kat Abo Gazella, uh,
39:17
Speaker 4: Palestinian American as the running is kind of the most
39:21
Speaker 4: left wing candidate against Daniel Biss, who was he the
39:25
Speaker 4: mayor of Evanston and kind of like an Elizabeth Warren
39:28
Speaker 4: type liberal yeah and.
39:31
Speaker 2: Yes for sure, but not exactly like Bernie wing right.
39:34
Speaker 4: And then Laura Fine, who is getting all of the
39:38
Speaker 4: APEX support. So it's kind of like a three way
39:41
Speaker 4: race between them. The latest poll I saw had Biss
39:45
Speaker 4: up by like six seven points, with Kat in second,
39:49
Speaker 4: which was and then both of them beating Laura Fine,
39:54
Speaker 4: which is remarkable because Fine was kind of, you know,
39:57
Speaker 4: Fine had the pole position here her. But it seems
40:02
Speaker 4: like the APAC money is actually dragging her down. It's
40:05
Speaker 4: it's a very it's this Evanston area is a very
40:07
Speaker 4: well educated district, and so once it got out that
40:11
Speaker 4: she was secretly backed by APAC, it seems like all
40:16
Speaker 4: of that money is is as much of a handicap
40:18
Speaker 4: as it is helping her. But so Kat may actually
40:22
Speaker 4: win this race now, So we went to her campaign.
40:26
Speaker 4: We went to her for comment about about what we're
40:29
Speaker 4: going to talk about now, and her back told her
40:31
Speaker 4: she's welcome to come on this on the show to
40:33
Speaker 4: talk about this as well. She has a and let
40:36
Speaker 4: me put this up up on the screen she has.
40:38
Speaker 4: It turns out her national security advisor is is is
40:44
Speaker 4: quite the hawk. And so his name's Ben Mermel and
40:49
Speaker 4: he is a So he's he's the guy that does
40:52
Speaker 4: her foreign policy and national security. So there's an email
40:55
Speaker 4: going around an activist circles that has that has gotten
40:59
Speaker 4: to me in which one of the kind of Washington
41:03
Speaker 4: based organizations reaches out and say, hey, you know, Cat's
41:07
Speaker 4: doing well, Like, can we get some clarification on what
41:13
Speaker 4: we've seen on her website, which seems seems to be
41:16
Speaker 4: some unusually hawkish positions we see on the like we
41:22
Speaker 4: see on there that she seems kind of to the right,
41:24
Speaker 4: more hawkish than Trump on Taiwan, more hawkers than Trump
41:27
Speaker 4: on Ukraine, but she's great on Palestine. So what's going
41:29
Speaker 4: on here? And so so that they got back and
41:34
Speaker 4: I agreed to conceal the person's names that the person
41:37
Speaker 4: so that not this person, but like that somebody would
41:39
Speaker 4: leak the email to me because it's it's getting a
41:42
Speaker 4: lot of attention kind of in the background, but it's
41:44
Speaker 4: something that the public should know about too. So here
41:48
Speaker 4: so I'll roll through these. You don't even need the questions,
41:52
Speaker 4: but you can pause this and read them if you want,
41:55
Speaker 4: because the answers are are fullsome and they they kind
41:59
Speaker 4: of incoor break the question one he talks about his
42:03
Speaker 4: role here. So number four, so this is about China
42:09
Speaker 4: and Taiwan.
42:10
Speaker 6: You aren't supposed to scroll that far down, Ryan, You're
42:13
Speaker 6: supposed to get tired of reading by.
42:14
Speaker 4: That point, right, So asked about China to because they
42:18
Speaker 4: said it look on the website, it looks like the
42:20
Speaker 4: kind of concerning language on the website. Are you sure?
42:23
Speaker 4: Is this really what Kat believes when it comes to Taiwan?
42:26
Speaker 4: And so the quote here, If elected, Kat would strongly
42:29
Speaker 4: push for amending the Taiwan Relations Act to include language
42:33
Speaker 4: dropping our strategic ambiguity towards defending the island from a
42:38
Speaker 4: Chinese invasion. Strategic ambiguity is actually precisely kind of what
42:43
Speaker 4: AOC was mocked for presenting when she was kind of
42:46
Speaker 4: babbling and kind of immune searching for an answer like
42:49
Speaker 4: that is literally, the current American strategy towards Taiwan is
42:52
Speaker 4: to just babble and not answer, so that China doesn't
42:56
Speaker 4: know like what we will actually do. And so what
43:00
Speaker 4: Cat is saying here through her advisors that that doesn't
43:03
Speaker 4: work anymore, that we need to we need to say
43:06
Speaker 4: that we're going to hit him. So as of now,
43:08
Speaker 4: China knows that Trump won't send the seventh Fleet or
43:11
Speaker 4: any other Indo pac Coom assets to defend Taiwan, and
43:15
Speaker 4: the event have been all out assault. We owe it
43:17
Speaker 4: to Taiwan and democracy to demonstrate that America will do
43:20
Speaker 4: everything possible to counter wars of aggression with force. Extremely
43:27
Speaker 4: hawkish position from from Cat there on Palestine strong, strong statement,
43:35
Speaker 4: The genocide in Gaza is a disgusting failure. You know,
43:40
Speaker 4: you've heard her talk a lot about the genocidin in Gaza,
43:44
Speaker 4: and so nothing here would surprise you. But then she adds,
43:48
Speaker 4: but then he adds on her behalf, that does not
43:51
Speaker 4: mean that our historical impulse to use military force versus
43:54
Speaker 4: correct it hardly ever, is and often causes untold damage.
43:58
Speaker 4: There are a wide range of options of fail well
44:00
Speaker 4: to both the Executive and Congress, precluding kinetic force, from
44:03
Speaker 4: sanctions to NGO support, all of which are likely to
44:07
Speaker 4: produce results when applied correctly. Kat is firmly an interventionist.
44:12
Speaker 4: The world is better off when America takes a leading
44:15
Speaker 4: role in it, but that role must be ethical and lawful,
44:18
Speaker 4: and it must place human rights first, so that you know,
44:22
Speaker 4: so we don't want to necessarily do war, but we
44:25
Speaker 4: do want sanctions, We do want to fund NGOs that
44:28
Speaker 4: do these like protests, and you know, support our favored
44:34
Speaker 4: folks inside these different countries. And quote firmly an interventionists.
44:38
Speaker 4: So I don't think that's what people would necessarily have
44:42
Speaker 4: expected from from what from how people understand her when
44:46
Speaker 4: it comes to Palestine. And then on Russia Ukraine, if elected,
44:51
Speaker 4: the alogy to the good stuff. If elected, CAT will
44:54
Speaker 4: hold the line. Russia cannot be allowed to eke out
44:57
Speaker 4: a win in Ukraine, and CAT stands firmly against any
44:59
Speaker 4: attempt by the Trump administration to sell out our European
45:03
Speaker 4: allies to Putin's imperialism. Kat fully supports funding the Ukrainian
45:07
Speaker 4: war effort to the hilt until the Russian forces are
45:10
Speaker 4: degraded to the point where a near restoration of pre
45:14
Speaker 4: war borders is possible, or any other outcome preferable to
45:18
Speaker 4: the Ukrainian government. She strongly supports the forward deployment of air, naval,
45:24
Speaker 4: and ground assets to the NATO front line, as well
45:28
Speaker 4: as the positioning of dual use missile and drone interception systems.
45:32
Speaker 4: So ground assets are we talking about American ground assets?
45:38
Speaker 4: Hopefully we give them clarity from her on that we
45:40
Speaker 4: must additionally surge IM one oh four page And this
45:43
Speaker 4: sounds like Ben Murmel here is kind of like one
45:47
Speaker 4: of the like a bit of a military geek, So
45:50
Speaker 4: he goes deep into the weapons systems that he wants
45:53
Speaker 4: to see placed on the border. The Chinese are closely
45:56
Speaker 4: watching our actions in Ukraine, and the outcome of this
45:59
Speaker 4: conflict will determine the nature of their attempt to seize Taiwan,
46:03
Speaker 4: possibly preventing it altogether. If Ukraine can pull off a
46:07
Speaker 4: diplomatic win, we owe it to those that gave their
46:09
Speaker 4: lives aggression throughout our history and people seeking freedom everywhere
46:16
Speaker 4: to not cower in fear. Kat will be that voice
46:19
Speaker 4: on the hill and she won't stop until Russia is
46:22
Speaker 4: made to pay for its crimes. So I don't know what,
46:25
Speaker 4: like what do you is that what you would have
46:29
Speaker 4: expected from.
46:31
Speaker 2: No, not at all, not firmly an interventionists like WHOA
46:37
Speaker 2: and so I mean, I guess my question is, you know,
46:40
Speaker 2: it's like I have a lot of I guess, sort
46:44
Speaker 2: of charity towards new congressional candidates, having myself been a
46:48
Speaker 2: congressional candid in the past and knowing where I was
46:50
Speaker 2: coming from as just being like, you know, kind of
46:52
Speaker 2: a regular person who just want to deserve the country.
46:54
Speaker 2: I mean, granted, Kat has been in the political space
46:56
Speaker 2: for a long time, right, foreign policy outside of she's
47:00
Speaker 2: you know, place plan in her flag very effectively in Palestine,
47:03
Speaker 2: it's not like that's what she's known for, right, So
47:06
Speaker 2: you know, I would be open to the idea that
47:08
Speaker 2: like she kind of just she kind of outsourced this
47:12
Speaker 2: to Ben and hasn't really fully thought it through, in
47:14
Speaker 2: which case there's a lot of opportunity to say, you know,
47:17
Speaker 2: this is not this is how we end up in
47:18
Speaker 2: the Iraq War, right, this is how we end up
47:21
Speaker 2: bombing Livia, this is how we end up with failed
47:23
Speaker 2: states and messing doing all these like color revolutions, and
47:26
Speaker 2: this is effectively the type of foreign policy we've had
47:29
Speaker 2: for decades going back into the Cold War, and you know,
47:32
Speaker 2: if you want to do something different, this is not
47:34
Speaker 2: what it looks like. So I am you know, I
47:37
Speaker 2: am anxious to hear from her directly on this because
47:41
Speaker 2: this is very, very surprising to me that this is
47:44
Speaker 2: the type of language that is being used here.
47:47
Speaker 4: There's also one other weird element here. This guy Ben,
47:55
Speaker 4: according to a the sud this GW article, he was
47:59
Speaker 4: at this He's quoted at a Pro Israel rally where
48:06
Speaker 4: he's I can maybe put this on Twitter, but let
48:10
Speaker 4: me let me find this. What's his quote here? It's like,
48:14
Speaker 4: what are you doing at the Pro Israel So Benmurmel
48:16
Speaker 4: here it is, actually I'll just here, let me put
48:19
Speaker 4: it up. Ben Murmel, a graduate student in the School
48:22
Speaker 4: of Public Affairs, attended the Pro Israel rally alongside Harris Mowbray,
48:26
Speaker 4: who graduated from the School of International Service in two
48:28
Speaker 4: thousand and two. Referring to the nearby encampment, there's a
48:31
Speaker 4: lot of points that they're making over there that I
48:34
Speaker 4: also agree with. I think they've done a bad job
48:36
Speaker 4: police and the anti Semitism that sometimes rears its head
48:39
Speaker 4: within that movement, and I think that's turned quite a
48:42
Speaker 4: lot of people off this comment aside, Like during the
48:48
Speaker 4: genocide in Gaza, there was an encampment at GW and
48:52
Speaker 4: Ben went to the her advisor went to the pro
48:56
Speaker 4: Israel rally that protested the encampment. So that's why, maybe
49:02
Speaker 4: more to your point, that she may have just outsourced
49:05
Speaker 4: this to this guy and he's like, well, and that's
49:09
Speaker 4: very greating up on the website and it's getting out
49:11
Speaker 4: to groups as official kind of campaign stuff. Responsible for it.
49:16
Speaker 2: But right, if you don't have a really formed foreign
49:21
Speaker 2: policy view, the people you surround yourself with become really important.
49:26
Speaker 2: You know, if you like have a fully formed view
49:30
Speaker 2: and maybe you want someone who has a different ideological
49:33
Speaker 2: orientation to kind of push you and you know, be
49:36
Speaker 2: the person in the room and says, well have you
49:37
Speaker 2: thought about this? That's kind of a different deal. But
49:41
Speaker 2: if you're coming in somewhat unformed and you're bringing in
49:45
Speaker 2: this person who is very hawkish and you know, just
49:48
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago was going to pro Israel protests,
49:51
Speaker 2: then you're you know, that's obviously what's going to be
49:54
Speaker 2: reflecting your campaign. That's going to really help shape and
49:57
Speaker 2: mold your own thinking, you know, as you're kind of
50:01
Speaker 2: coming into this fresh.
50:03
Speaker 3: Yeah.
50:03
Speaker 2: I mean people have talked about like with AOC, Mett
50:05
Speaker 2: dous Is advising her, and you could see that right
50:08
Speaker 2: in her language and her approach and the things she
50:11
Speaker 2: was saying at the Munich conference as well. And I
50:14
Speaker 2: think foreign policy has always been an area from I
50:16
Speaker 2: remember when you know, AOC first got elected and she
50:18
Speaker 2: got that question about Israel Palestine and she was very
50:21
Speaker 2: like she knew there were things land mines here, but
50:26
Speaker 2: she didn't know exactly where they were, and she kind
50:28
Speaker 2: of had just like a general instinct of like I
50:30
Speaker 2: want peace and Palistanstinian should have rights, but I don't
50:33
Speaker 2: know exactly what to say about this. That's kind of
50:35
Speaker 2: where she was, And I think she's always been much
50:38
Speaker 2: more comfortable on domestic policy than she has been on
50:41
Speaker 2: foreign policy, and so it reminds me a bit of
50:43
Speaker 2: that with Kat, although again, I mean Kat has been
50:47
Speaker 2: a political you know, she's been a political actor, not candidate,
50:50
Speaker 2: but a political actor for a long time. So anyway,
50:53
Speaker 2: those are some of my sort of like thoughts and
50:55
Speaker 2: reflections of just you know, reacting to this in real time.
50:59
Speaker 2: But there's I am definitely surprised to see what is
51:03
Speaker 2: in this you know, campaign communication that purports to speak
51:08
Speaker 2: for her and her.
51:08
Speaker 4: Views we made to Yeah, no, the offer stands like
51:14
Speaker 4: we reached out to catches and welcome, welcome to come on,
51:17
Speaker 4: will absolutely you're here of perspective at length on this ahead.
51:23
Speaker 6: I also think that there is a definite lack of like, Okay,
51:28
Speaker 6: for the Taiwan on one, it's kind of hashtag random
51:31
Speaker 6: like for what we're doing there, uh, But for the
51:33
Speaker 6: Ukraine one, I think there is actually like a vacuum
51:36
Speaker 6: of leftist perspective on the Ukraine war, like like like,
51:40
Speaker 6: I don't think that there's like a lot of strong
51:42
Speaker 6: national figures on the left that are talking about how
51:46
Speaker 6: many people are dying every month there, that are talking
51:48
Speaker 6: about the average age of the Ukrainian soldier, that are
51:51
Speaker 6: talking about how the front lines haven't moved in years,
51:53
Speaker 6: or that we would have to actually deploy ground troops
51:55
Speaker 6: and start World War three to win back this land
51:59
Speaker 6: mine strewn land. So because there has not been even
52:05
Speaker 6: on shows that I like that are pretty leftists, you know,
52:07
Speaker 6: I don't. I don't think the Majority report talks a
52:09
Speaker 6: lot about that stuff. That's probably one of the biggest
52:11
Speaker 6: leftist shows, probably a show that Kat watches. So I
52:13
Speaker 6: think there has been like that vacuum on the on
52:16
Speaker 6: the Ukraine thing, but this is still pretty unacceptable. You
52:20
Speaker 6: have to like find like good people to surround you.
52:24
Speaker 6: But you know, I do like that she's been good
52:25
Speaker 6: on ICE, she's been good on Palestine, and she's been
52:27
Speaker 6: good on TV, which is important. You know, she goes
52:30
Speaker 6: on these CNN panels and she's awesome.
52:33
Speaker 5: She's like a great fighter. She's like clear someone we need.
52:36
Speaker 6: So I'm willing to like say, maybe she picked the
52:40
Speaker 6: wrong guy, but if these are her views, this is
52:43
Speaker 6: kind of a classic example of like progressivism being too
52:46
Speaker 6: broad a term and like being like, oh, you can
52:49
Speaker 6: fit all sorts of stuff. You can be of you know,
52:52
Speaker 6: you can be a we need to sack Vladimir Putin progressive,
52:55
Speaker 6: or you can be a non intervention is progressive, And
52:57
Speaker 6: it's such a broad term that it becomes kind of useless.
52:59
Speaker 6: And I think people that are on the more hardcore
53:03
Speaker 6: least should probably depart from the term.
53:06
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think the Ukraine point is an interesting
53:10
Speaker 2: one to dig into a little bit more. You know,
53:13
Speaker 2: early on in the Ukraine War. Member, there was a
53:16
Speaker 2: group of progressives who tried to put out some letter
53:19
Speaker 2: I don't remember. It was like Ryan, you'll probably remember better.
53:21
Speaker 2: It was like calling for a ceasefire, negotiations or diplomacy
53:24
Speaker 2: or something. It was I remember it being very tame, right,
53:29
Speaker 2: It was very like piece is good, you know, like
53:32
Speaker 2: that was basically the vibe. And they faced so much
53:35
Speaker 2: backlash for penning this letter, and it worked like after that,
53:40
Speaker 2: everyone just kept their mouth shut and they're like, oh,
53:42
Speaker 2: I guess we'll just got to do this war forever
53:44
Speaker 2: and kind of like slowly fade.
53:46
Speaker 3: In weapons and you know, create some.
53:49
Speaker 2: Sort of like miserable, deadly, destructive status quo. And here
53:53
Speaker 2: we are, and you know, I mean, I understand, I
53:57
Speaker 2: understand why Ukraine is a difficult position for progressives because
54:01
Speaker 2: there are competing principles.
54:03
Speaker 3: At stake here. Right, Russia was the aggressor.
54:06
Speaker 2: It is an illegal war, you know, Ukraine is like
54:09
Speaker 2: are the the underdogs?
54:10
Speaker 3: Like it's it's not right? What has been done to that?
54:13
Speaker 2: I would say, what are you know, screwing around with
54:15
Speaker 2: Ukraine and using this as a proxy war is also
54:17
Speaker 2: not right? And then of course the competing principle there
54:21
Speaker 2: is that people are dying. This war has no end
54:23
Speaker 2: in sight, and even though any resolution right now there's
54:27
Speaker 2: it's not going to be a just resolution. There's just
54:30
Speaker 2: no doubt about that. It's going to be a very
54:33
Speaker 2: ugly and difficult pill to swallow. But meanwhile, people are
54:36
Speaker 2: dying and the wartime goes on the worst the solution
54:40
Speaker 2: is likely to get for Ukraine. So I understand why
54:44
Speaker 2: that is a difficult issue for progressives to just kind
54:48
Speaker 2: of like take a hard stand on, and because you
54:51
Speaker 2: do have these competing principles at play. But you know,
54:55
Speaker 2: by and large, at this point with both parties and
54:58
Speaker 2: with the Trump administration, I mean, he bare we mentioned
55:00
Speaker 2: Ukraine at all in a State of the Union. It's
55:03
Speaker 2: just become another one of these intractable, intractable conflicts where
55:07
Speaker 2: it is easy for every political actor to just pretend
55:10
Speaker 2: like it's not happening and allow a horrifying, grinding, deadly
55:17
Speaker 2: status quo and dangerous by the way status quo to persist,
55:21
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, it reminds in the sense of Afghanistan,
55:23
Speaker 2: where it was like everyone knows it's a mess, we
55:26
Speaker 2: don't even know why we're there, anymore, like what are
55:28
Speaker 2: we even doing? And yet it just grew, it creates
55:31
Speaker 2: a logic of its own because politically, it's easier just
55:34
Speaker 2: to put it on the back burner and push it
55:36
Speaker 2: out of the news than to actually bring it to
55:38
Speaker 2: what ended up being a rather ugly conclusion, from which
55:41
Speaker 2: Joe Biden himself like that's when his approved writing falls
55:44
Speaker 2: off and he never recovers. So that's kind of where
55:47
Speaker 2: we are with the Ukraine War, which is really across
55:50
Speaker 2: the board, you know, Republican, Democrat, progressive, modern everybody issue
55:55
Speaker 2: at this point where it's like no one really wants
55:57
Speaker 2: to focus on it or talk about it because it's
55:59
Speaker 2: easier not to.
56:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, and history nerds can fact check me. But this
56:03
Speaker 4: has lasted longer than World War One, now, like for you,
56:07
Speaker 4: this is this is and with frankly no end in
56:11
Speaker 4: sight other than the complete demographic collapse of of Ukraine
56:16
Speaker 4: coupled with a genuine demo demographic hit to Russia that
56:21
Speaker 4: will resonate and ring out for generations. It's insane.
56:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, and all right, you sorry I cut you off, Ryan, No, No, okay,
56:33
Speaker 6: just buttering with rage.
56:35
Speaker 5: All right, Kat, we'd love to talk to you about that.
56:39
Speaker 6: We'd love to keep talking more about the Ukraine War,
56:42
Speaker 6: because I do think it's a topic that fell by
56:44
Speaker 6: the wayside. And it's tough because I think, yeah, everyone
56:47
Speaker 6: kind of has just shrugged it off as never ending.
56:50
Speaker 5: But yeah, that's going to do it for this first half.
56:52
Speaker 5: We got a lot of topics.
56:53
Speaker 6: In the second half, we wanted to talk about some
56:56
Speaker 6: horrible ice video that's been on Earth by a reporter
57:01
Speaker 6: of a blind gentleman that then passed away after being
57:05
Speaker 6: left out in the cold. We've got some stuff on
57:08
Speaker 6: the Save Act that we wanted to get to with Trump.
57:11
Speaker 6: And then now some China election interference claims about the
57:15
Speaker 6: twenty twenty election. And of course our friends over at
57:19
Speaker 6: Paramount have won the day and it looks like they
57:23
Speaker 6: will be the ones to purchase Warner Brothers. So we're
57:26
Speaker 6: gonna get all that some more if we do have time.
57:30
Speaker 4: This plumber from the Green Party, a hand of the plumber,
57:35
Speaker 4: just won this massive election. That could be like a
57:38
Speaker 4: dagger in the heart of the Labor Party, like that
57:41
Speaker 4: might make Kerstarmer like literally the last Labor prime minister
57:46
Speaker 4: in world history, like ever again in the.
57:49
Speaker 3: Well, wow, okay, all right, we'll do that.
57:54
Speaker 6: We're doing that first. Ryan, all right, let's get to
57:56
Speaker 6: the plumber right now. See you all there. Breakingpoints dot
57:59
Speaker 6: com