Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / An Introduction To UFOs & Aliens (Part 1) With Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast #236

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An Introduction To UFOs & Aliens (Part 1) With Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast #236 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of Christian Reed
• 0:03
  Podcast. Now before we get into today's
• 0:06
  massive, massive topic, here's a reminder.
• 0:10
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• 0:15
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  this show, please consider leaving a review, a comment.
• 0:31
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• 0:35
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• 0:38
  be in the description and Patreon support the show support
• 0:42
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• 0:45
  All the rest of the links are in the description below.
• 0:48
  Thank you so much to everybody that supports the show and
• 0:51
  listens to the show. I hope you enjoy it.
• 0:54
  Today, we've got something very special for you.
• 0:56
  I am joined by the wonderful Josh Leonard of the Pursuit of
• 1:00
  Infinity podcast. Hello, Josh.
• 1:03
  Hey Christian, thanks for having me, man.
• 1:04
  I appreciate it. It's always an honor to have you
• 1:07
  back on the show. For those who who may not be
• 1:10
  familiar, Josh Leonard hosts a wonderful, wonderful show called
• 1:13
  the Pursuit of Infinity podcast. It's an excellent kind of deep
• 1:16
  dive. It's very similar to my show but
• 1:18
  in a very, very different way. I don't know like similar maybe
• 1:21
  cadence or approach. Josh is also a stickler for
• 1:25
  facts and and just going really really into detail with with his
• 1:28
  research. So if you like this show, you'll
• 1:30
  definitely like that show. And we've also done a lot of
• 1:33
  shows together. Josh was on episode 2 Hundreds,
• 1:37
  which I did all about. We did.
• 1:38
  Sorry all about life after death and also near death experiences
• 1:43
  and with this show. The story behind this was that I
• 1:48
  was reaching out trying to get people on board to do a show
• 1:51
  about the paranormal because I figured spooky season that makes
• 1:54
  sense. Speaking of which I did an
• 1:57
  episode for my Patreon show Life with Christian Reeve all about
• 2:00
  paranormal experiences so make sure you check that out
• 2:02
  patreon.com/christian Reeve. Now I'm gonna stop plugging and
• 2:06
  I start talking about the topic at hand, which is Ufo's because
• 2:11
  Josh reached out to me and said well, I don't know about the
• 2:14
  paranormal thing, but I'd definitely be out for talking
• 2:17
  about UFOs. And I'm like that's that's
• 2:21
  interesting and I know that my audience are very into the idea
• 2:25
  of of these kind of topics, these strange and mysterious
• 2:28
  topics. I know that I am.
• 2:30
  I've always been a bit of a stickler, fascinator, fascinated
• 2:34
  type of person when it comes to the paranormal conspiracies and
• 2:39
  UFO's and everything about it just kind of ticks all those
• 2:43
  boxes really. And I thought also another
• 2:47
  element to this that I find quite interesting and I only
• 2:49
  really realized once I delved into it, is that, look, we both
• 2:54
  come from different nations and arguably UFO's and the whole UFO
• 2:58
  phenomenon originated really in the United States.
• 3:01
  But we actually have a lot of interesting stuff that's
• 3:04
  happened in the UK and internationally, and we'll get
• 3:07
  into some of that today. But before we get into that,
• 3:12
  what is a UFO? What is it?
• 3:15
  An unidentified flying object. UFO, also known as a flying
• 3:20
  sourcer, refers to any aerial object or optical phenomenon not
• 3:25
  readily identifiable to the observer.
• 3:28
  UFO's became a major subject of interest following the
• 3:32
  development of rocketry after World War 2, and were thought by
• 3:36
  some researchers to be intelligent extraterrestrial
• 3:40
  life visiting Earth. My first question to you, Josh,
• 3:45
  have you ever seen a UFO? Maybe I have a weird sighting
• 3:52
  that is not quite definitive for me, but it was something that I
• 3:57
  did see that I cannot explain with normal human reasoning.
• 4:05
  Tell us more. So real quick, I was at my
• 4:11
  fiance's sister's house, We were all just chilling, hanging out,
• 4:15
  and it was probably about 11/11/30 at night.
• 4:20
  So we walk outside, a few people are smoking cigarettes and we're
• 4:23
  just kind of chilling and we look up and it's a really,
• 4:26
  really nice view of the sky. You can really see a lot there.
• 4:30
  There's not a lot of light pollution.
• 4:32
  So you can really see a lot of stars.
• 4:34
  So we're looking up and what we see there were four of us
• 4:38
  outside in the backyard at at this particular moment.
• 4:42
  So we look up and we see what looks like a shooting star.
• 4:47
  Have you ever seen a shooting star when like they have like
• 4:49
  that nice tail on the end of it, but this one was really, really
• 4:53
  bright and instead of being more elongated, it was short and it
• 4:58
  was fat. And it was a very bright and it
• 5:01
  was very quick. So it sort of flashed in and
• 5:04
  then stopped. And when it stopped, there was
• 5:06
  just this bright light. And what it did was it broke off
• 5:11
  into four separate like lights. That's the best I can describe
• 5:16
  it. Three of them seemed to lock
• 5:20
  into a triangular formation, and then one of them just went
• 5:26
  straight back. So I followed the one that went
• 5:29
  straight back because that's the one that started moving first.
• 5:32
  So behind me was their house. So I'm looking up and up and up
• 5:37
  because it's going back farther and farther.
• 5:39
  And then eventually it gets to the point where I can't see it
• 5:42
  anymore because the house is in the way and it's just gone.
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  And then I look back at the other ones and I see.
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  So I wasn't, I wasn't following the other three, but my fiance
• 5:52
  and her one of her really good friends and her good friends
• 5:55
  husband were looking at those, the other three.
• 5:58
  So they were moving together like this, like spinning.
• 6:02
  And they were like, so to me what I saw was I just saw two of
• 6:06
  them. I wasn't, I wasn't seeing the
• 6:08
  third one because I hadn't really paid attention to exactly
• 6:11
  where they were going. So I saw the the the two of them
• 6:14
  and they were moving in unison the same way.
• 6:18
  And what my fiance said was that while I was looking at the one
• 6:22
  going straight back, they would see they they saw the three fly
• 6:28
  and whenever it would they like the the space in between each of
• 6:32
  the lights would go over a star. The star would disappear.
• 6:36
  So it looked like they were viewing a solid triangular
• 6:40
  object with three lights on either on either point moving.
• 6:46
  And even seeing the two that I saw, it was so weird because
• 6:50
  stars, they don't move like that.
• 6:52
  Because it's not as if it was a shooting star or some kind of an
• 6:55
  object that was moving, like in One Direction.
• 6:58
  These things were spinning and moving together and they were
• 7:01
  changing direction. Very, very strange.
• 7:04
  So I like to say that we witnessed the celestial event
• 7:07
  that night. I have no idea what it was, but
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  to me it was an unidentified anomalous phenomenon.
• 7:14
  This is fascinating to me for various reasons, but the biggest
• 7:18
  one, and sorry to to to introduce this at the beginning
• 7:23
  of this show, but I will be doing another show with Josh all
• 7:27
  about UFUFO sightings. Now you may be asking why are
• 7:32
  you going to do that in a different show?
• 7:34
  Why not do it in this show? Well, for two reasons.
• 7:36
  One, when you listen to this whole show and you see just how
• 7:40
  much stuff that we're going to go into.
• 7:44
  And bear in mind, it's not that it's not even the tip of the
• 7:47
  iceberg. There was so much stuff to dive
• 7:50
  into. Like I probably did like nought
• 7:52
  .5% research and I did a ton of research for this show, for both
• 7:56
  shows even, and I still let that bed.
• 8:00
  That's, I mean I found out terms that I didn't even know existed,
• 8:03
  like Ufologist for example, is a term that exists a person who
• 8:08
  dedicates their life, as the name suggests, to studying
• 8:11
  UFO's. Now I quickly want to say though
• 8:15
  on the UFO sighting thing, that everything you just said is very
• 8:20
  consistent with a bunch of accounts that I've read into.
• 8:24
  Now I'm not going to give away any more than that because I've
• 8:26
  got something very special planned for that particular
• 8:28
  show, but I will leave it at that because I think it's very
• 8:31
  interesting. Everything that you said,
• 8:32
  there's a lot of things in there like key things that you look
• 8:35
  out for consistent patterns amongst all these different
• 8:39
  sightings. You know, and I think the
• 8:41
  biggest thing about UF O's that's really interesting is
• 8:43
  that anyone that's ever seen a UFO, when they talk about it,
• 8:47
  they instantly get typically maybe not so much now I mean and
• 8:51
  we'll get into that. But back in the day you you're
• 8:54
  always kind of accused of making it up or Oh no, it's definitely
• 8:57
  like an aircraft or you know, you're just talking crazy talk.
• 9:00
  You know you're making up stories, but when you get like,
• 9:05
  I don't know, 80 thousand of these sightings throughout the
• 9:09
  years in various parts of the world, and they all have these
• 9:13
  consistencies and patterns amongst all of the different
• 9:16
  sightings, it makes you start wondering if maybe there's some
• 9:23
  element of truth to this. I don't know.
• 9:26
  It depends. I asked you about your UFO
• 9:29
  experience. I've never seen a UFO in the
• 9:33
  traditional sense. But then let's look at the
• 9:36
  definition for a second UFO unidentified flying object.
• 9:41
  Most of us assume, Oh well, alien spacecraft, right?
• 9:44
  But really it just refers to any kind of, as the name suggests,
• 9:49
  flying object in the sky that we can't identify.
• 9:53
  The only thing I've really seen close to that, with the
• 9:56
  exception of, you know, shooting stars and stuff like that, is
• 10:01
  like certain lights in the sky. And normally I'd look at the
• 10:04
  mobile like, wow, that's got to be a plane.
• 10:06
  But you can normally kind of planes have like a very
• 10:10
  specific, I don't know how to put it like speed.
• 10:17
  I suppose if you can make them out in the sky and they're
• 10:20
  flying over, what they're probably doing is one or two
• 10:22
  things. Either they're flying to the
• 10:24
  nearby airport, which you would hear, to be honest, But if it's
• 10:29
  far enough out that you can't hear it, then chances are
• 10:32
  they're just flying over your country.
• 10:33
  But you you can make it out. They're flying low enough that
• 10:35
  you can make it out. And they've kind of got that
• 10:37
  like quite slow gliding kind of, you know, it's it's quite
• 10:41
  consistent like a, you know, you can tell that it's a plane.
• 10:45
  A few times I looked in the sky and I assumed maybe that's the
• 10:50
  International Space Station, which is like a really, really
• 10:53
  bright light. If you can make it out in the
• 10:55
  sky, it's, it's, but it's. The thing is, it's beaming.
• 10:58
  It's almost like the moon on a bright night.
• 10:59
  It's like, and it stays fixed. You wouldn't really, to the best
• 11:05
  of my knowledge, be able to tell that it's moving because it's
• 11:07
  moving so slowly or we're spinning so slowly.
• 11:10
  I don't know, but I have occasionally seen lights pass
• 11:15
  through a little bit less brighter than the International
• 11:21
  Space Station, but it'll either be bright white or a few
• 11:25
  different lights and it'll be moving through the sky quite
• 11:27
  quickly, Not super quickly, but quite quickly.
• 11:31
  And it's definitely not a plane. It couldn't really be a
• 11:38
  helicopter because it that's too hot, there's there's a certain
• 11:40
  altitude they can't go past. So it's got to be, I don't know,
• 11:44
  either a government aircraft or something else.
• 11:49
  I don't know, but that's the kind of the best experiences I
• 11:54
  could give. What I've seen, I'm sure many of
• 11:57
  us have seen stuff in the sky we couldn't explain, but it's
• 12:00
  interesting to me the definition of what a UFO is.
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  And I'll get into this a little bit later, but the actual term
• 12:08
  UFO is now changing, that the official term has changed, but
• 12:14
  we'll get into that. Another question I quickly want
• 12:17
  to ask you about is earliest memories of Ufo's.
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  Can you sort of recall the earliest time you recall hearing
• 12:25
  about the UFO? Probably on.
• 12:29
  Do you remember that show Unsolved Mysteries back in like
• 12:32
  the 90s? I probably remember.
• 12:36
  I don't think I ever sat down and watched it, but if I would,
• 12:39
  if I'd say a clip, I probably know I definitely recognize the
• 12:42
  voiceover. Yeah, It was generally a show
• 12:45
  where they would look into like crimes and things like that,
• 12:48
  anomalous situations where they were unsolved.
• 12:52
  But some of the episodes had UFOs on them.
• 12:54
  And I remember seeing those when I was a kid and I was thinking,
• 12:56
  man, this is super interesting stuff.
• 12:59
  Because those episodes were always so compelling and of of
• 13:02
  course, they ended in mystery. Nobody knew what it what it was.
• 13:05
  Most of the time they would get the police involved.
• 13:07
  So you'd have at least that level of accountability to where
• 13:10
  you have an entire Police Department that was saying,
• 13:13
  yeah, we saw this or we got calls for this and a lot of the
• 13:19
  same types of reports coming from different parts of the
• 13:21
  state or county. So yeah, very interesting stuff
• 13:25
  there on that show. And I mean, obviously when you
• 13:27
  see something on TV as opposed to like just somebody talking
• 13:30
  about it, it seems a bit more credible.
• 13:33
  Absolutely. The earliest memory I have is I
• 13:37
  was in primary school. So I don't know what that is
• 13:39
  equivalent in America. I never know.
• 13:41
  I never know. The actual middle school?
• 13:43
  No, maybe a bit younger. Probably like elementary school.
• 13:47
  Elementary. Yes.
• 13:48
  Yeah, right. Yeah, cuz that's right.
• 13:49
  You got it split, haven't you? You've got elementary, middle
• 13:52
  school, high school, is that right?
• 13:55
  Yeah, that's right. That's right, Okay.
• 13:56
  Wow, that doesn't actually seem that complicated.
• 13:58
  Okay. Never mind.
• 13:59
  Well, I was in elementary school, I think, and I recall
• 14:05
  the teacher putting on and this is how old this is, either a
• 14:09
  tape cassette or a CD of a. The way she explained it was,
• 14:15
  oh, you need to listen to this really scary story about aliens.
• 14:19
  And we're like, and we listen to this story and it's like an old,
• 14:23
  timey 1940s, nineteen 50s radio played style thing when it's
• 14:29
  like, Oh my God, Oh my God, they're coming.
• 14:31
  They're coming from Mars. What are these creatures like?
• 14:33
  That kind of thing. Right.
• 14:35
  And she purposefully didn't tell us exactly what it was like.
• 14:40
  She explained it as aliens, but she didn't explain like the
• 14:42
  details and the history behind it until afterwards.
• 14:44
  So we listened to this recording.
• 14:46
  It's about 1520 minutes, and then she debunks it for us, she
• 14:49
  says. Right, so this was a hoax, a
• 14:51
  very famous hoax. Now, I wanted to look into this
• 14:55
  before, but I couldn't find the name of it.
• 14:57
  But I'm sure people that listen, especially in stateside, will
• 14:59
  know what I'm talking about. It's like this, this kind of
• 15:03
  fake recording, fake hoax, star recording where they made people
• 15:07
  believe it was real and they actually played it on the radio,
• 15:10
  I believe, but it wasn't real. But it kind of what's the word
• 15:17
  when you when you sort of bank off something.
• 15:19
  I can't remember the term I'm looking for They they kind of
• 15:24
  like took the fact that you know the country was obsessed with UF
• 15:28
  O's at that time and you know banked on that and and and you
• 15:33
  know inserted this insert your fake recording here capitalized
• 15:37
  that's what I'm looking for. They capitalized on that and and
• 15:41
  a lot of people believed it was real and got really, really
• 15:43
  concerned and scared and worried.
• 15:44
  And then of course it was exposed to be a fake.
• 15:48
  But it got people's attention, which is the really interesting
• 15:52
  thing. And we'll go into this a little
• 15:56
  bit more as we go out throughout this episode, making a lot of
• 15:59
  promises. Here we will deliver a lot of
• 16:04
  the early newspaper clickings that I read.
• 16:07
  So it was kind of like a battle in society in the States between
• 16:10
  people that were like, no, this is, this is clearly just an
• 16:13
  unidentified government business.
• 16:15
  This is, you know, stop talking nonsense.
• 16:18
  And then there's other people that are like, well, I don't
• 16:20
  know, there's there's something to this.
• 16:21
  This is, this falls out of logic and reasoning.
• 16:24
  And, you know, you've told us one thing and then we found this
• 16:27
  evidence that suggests something else.
• 16:29
  And I I think that was also the beginning of people starting to
• 16:32
  realize that, you know, maybe the government doesn't always
• 16:35
  tell the truth, you know, like the official government account
• 16:39
  and then what? The facts are maybe two
• 16:42
  different things. Because back then, people would
• 16:45
  just like, pretty much trust the government completely.
• 16:47
  Like only a small subsection of of society would actually
• 16:51
  question things. And if they would, they get
• 16:53
  ostracized or laughed at or, you know, targeted in some shape or
• 16:58
  form. There was always people
• 17:00
  challenging the system. But, you know, I think the UFO
• 17:05
  saga and everything that existed thereafter really helped to,
• 17:09
  like, push this narrative of not to make things political but,
• 17:12
  you know, questioning the government, questioning the
• 17:15
  information that you're given, official accounts.
• 17:18
  You know, this idea that whatever the official account is
• 17:21
  given, it might be falsified. It might in some way not
• 17:26
  actually reflect facts. And that's an interesting thing,
• 17:30
  especially with when it comes to UFO's, because we know people
• 17:33
  lie. People lie all the time.
• 17:35
  But sometimes there's no reason for people to lie about
• 17:39
  something, You know, Sometimes it's like, well, what?
• 17:42
  What would be the gain in lying, you know?
• 17:46
  So let's move on. I want to give a kind of rough,
• 17:49
  I suppose, timeline of events, Try to kind of break this down
• 17:53
  for anyone. I'm pretty sure most people know
• 17:55
  about all of these things, but maybe they don't.
• 17:58
  And here's your opportunity to to learn a little about the
• 18:02
  history of UFOs. Now I got a lot of this
• 18:04
  information initially timeline wise from history.com so if any
• 18:12
  of it is incorrect then you can blame them I it'll be a cold day
• 18:16
  in hell before I use Wikipedia as a source.
• 18:18
  So I wanted to find something that you know what I mean, like
• 18:23
  seemed fairly factual. I mean they use it, they they
• 18:26
  refer to a lot of studies and and journal articles and news
• 18:32
  articles and a lot of different things.
• 18:34
  And I think that's always just a good rule of thumb.
• 18:36
  You know, if you, if you're looking to source things, just
• 18:38
  don't use Wikipedia guys. So Roswell, now there were
• 18:44
  accounts that existed before of people potentially seeing Ufo's.
• 18:50
  But Roswell, the Roswell incident to be specific, is
• 18:54
  really kind of what put this whole idea of Ufo's on the map
• 18:57
  and put it maybe into the public consciousness as it were.
• 19:01
  So I'm just going to kind of read verbatim and we can sort of
• 19:05
  break this down together and go through all of this.
• 19:07
  So same year that Arnold saw the flying objects rancher WW Mack
• 19:13
  Brazel or name came across a mysterious 200 yard long
• 19:19
  wreckage near an army field airfield in Roswell, NM.
• 19:23
  Local papers reported it was the remains of a flying saucer.
• 19:28
  The US military issued a statement saying that it was
• 19:31
  just a Weberbloom, so the newspaper photograph suggested
• 19:34
  otherwise, His direct quote At first, the Army command at
• 19:40
  Roswell issued a press release announcing it had recovered a
• 19:44
  flying disc, as UFO's were called then.
• 19:47
  This press release was then retracted and further press
• 19:51
  coverage restricted. Interesting At a press
• 19:54
  conference in Fort Worth, the Army explained that the
• 19:57
  intelligence officer and others at Roswell had misidentified the
• 20:01
  debris. Which was in fact the remains of
• 20:04
  a downed balloon with a metallic radar reflector attached and not
• 20:09
  a UFO. The flames of conspiracy were
• 20:12
  further fanned in the 1950s when dummies with latex skin and
• 20:16
  aluminium bones that looked eerily like aliens fell from the
• 20:20
  sky across New Mexico and were hurriedly picked up by military
• 20:24
  vehicles. To those who believed in the
• 20:27
  earlier Roswell sightings, this seemed like a government cover
• 20:30
  up for the Air Force. These dummy drops were a way to
• 20:34
  test new ways for pilots to survive falls 50 years later,
• 20:38
  The military issued A subsequent statement admitting that the
• 20:42
  Roswell wreckage was part of Project Mogul, the top secret
• 20:47
  atomic espionage project. There's a lot to unpack there,
• 20:51
  but I think that the key thing I want to kind of focus on just
• 20:55
  now is the information that's given there and the timeline of
• 20:59
  it. So an initial statement is
• 21:01
  released. They then quickly change that
• 21:06
  and restrict information and restrict the media as well,
• 21:11
  which is interesting. And then they turn around with
• 21:14
  this story of it being a downed weather bloon.
• 21:19
  I suppose if you're going to question this, it comes down to
• 21:23
  a key question. You know, like those diagrams
• 21:26
  that ask you if you think XY&Z, then take this route.
• 21:29
  If you think this route, then think this.
• 21:30
  So I guess the key question right now is if you believe that
• 21:34
  this was in fact aliens, then you would maybe take the route
• 21:39
  of thinking, okay, there's a reason why the government might
• 21:42
  might lie and cover this up. If you don't believe that it's
• 21:45
  aliens, then it's pretty conclusive that, you know, they
• 21:49
  were just trying to kind of understand what it was and they
• 21:54
  realized, huh, if we say this initial statement, this incites
• 21:59
  panic. We need to retract this.
• 22:01
  So I guess my first question to you, Josh, would be, do you
• 22:07
  believe in aliens there? Oh, it's so hard.
• 22:12
  This is a particularly interesting case because as you
• 22:16
  had mentioned, I think it's interesting to note how quickly
• 22:20
  the US government. Responds to these types of
• 22:23
  events and how quickly they're there to clean it up and take it
• 22:26
  out and leave no evidence of anything being left behind.
• 22:33
  And a lot of the official government narrative is very
• 22:38
  suspect as well because there were pictures that were taken.
• 22:42
  I forget who the guy was, but he worked at the Air Force Base I
• 22:47
  believe, where where it was down to here.
• 22:50
  And there's pictures, you can find them online And he's
• 22:54
  holding this like metallic tin looking tinfoil object, some
• 23:00
  sort of material and he's smiling.
• 23:03
  And this was like an official government released photo saying
• 23:07
  this is what we found, this is just the weather balloon, non
• 23:11
  ordinary type of metallic metal. Nothing to see here.
• 23:16
  And later that same guy who posed with that stuff had said
• 23:22
  that that wasn't what they had found.
• 23:25
  That was not part of the wreckage and that was
• 23:28
  orchestrated by our government officials to perpetuate the the
• 23:34
  cover up. And they said that what they
• 23:37
  actually found was this strange metallic material that you could
• 23:42
  crumble it up. And then when you let go of it,
• 23:45
  it instantly would like shift right back into position as it
• 23:50
  was. They also said they were weird
• 23:52
  like hieroglyph type letters on it as well.
• 23:57
  Now again this is all sort of speculation because it mean it
• 24:00
  is coming from people who were quote UN quote there or claim to
• 24:03
  be there. But this goes against the
• 24:05
  government narrative of course. But it's interesting to see the
• 24:09
  the way that government responds and then if you try to analyze.
• 24:13
  The truth or the validity of what you're seeing, what they're
• 24:16
  presenting to you, And I mean, there's just so much of it that
• 24:18
  seems very suspect to me. Yeah.
• 24:22
  And I've always kind of thought, I mean, OK, we'll get into this
• 24:25
  in a second. Like, what's happened in more
• 24:28
  recent history within like the last year even, I believe.
• 24:32
  But for so long, it kind of seemed like the government was
• 24:35
  like just always saying no, no, no, there's definitely no, no
• 24:40
  sign. This is all nonsense.
• 24:41
  There's no chance in hell, hell chance in hell that there will
• 24:45
  ever be aliens. You know, it's just it's it's
• 24:48
  it's not factual. There are no aliens.
• 24:51
  They just kept saying that, kept saying that, kept saying that.
• 24:53
  And I don't know, the cynic in me is always like, well, that
• 24:56
  sounds like something that someone would say, like, you
• 24:59
  know, if they're trying to come with something like that.
• 25:01
  But then I did also think, like maybe they are telling the
• 25:04
  truth. I mean, you know, it's not.
• 25:07
  Yeah. They can't lie all the time
• 25:09
  about everything. Surely they must be telling the
• 25:11
  truth sometimes, you know? But we we can't really continue
• 25:18
  this conversation without talking about what's happening
• 25:20
  right now. They pretty much just came out
• 25:22
  and said, yeah, aliens are real and a lot of people at the time,
• 25:28
  Whenever. When was this was earlier this
• 25:29
  year or last year? I can't remember.
• 25:31
  But they came out and said this in a press conference and
• 25:37
  obviously my first initial reaction was what the fuck?
• 25:40
  But I was also at heart and a lot of people were like making
• 25:43
  the joke about how, you know, the government turns around and
• 25:46
  says this and we're all questioning, well, why would you
• 25:49
  say this is this distraction tactics so that we don't pay
• 25:52
  attention to something else, which is something that the
• 25:55
  media does? It's very interesting,
• 25:57
  especially when you look at, again, I don't want to make this
• 26:01
  political, but it's kind of impossible to not talk about
• 26:04
  government and government strategies when you're talking
• 26:06
  about UFOs and like the way that they do things.
• 26:09
  So often when there's like a big legislation or something that
• 26:14
  the government is even not necessarily trying to cover up,
• 26:17
  but they don't want a lot of attention on like a particular
• 26:19
  bill that's being passed, it's going to be controversial almost
• 26:24
  definitely. They'll be like some sensational
• 26:27
  news story, whether it's a big celebrity thing or some big
• 26:31
  geographical thing or just some big massive story to take your
• 26:35
  attention away from it. And it really felt at the time,
• 26:38
  and a lot of people were saying this online at the time as well,
• 26:41
  the the whole announcing the aliens, real kind of thing was
• 26:48
  exactly that, like a distraction technique.
• 26:50
  Now the first thing I thought, and again, Captain Cynic, you'll
• 26:57
  you'll see this throughout the show.
• 27:00
  I looked at it like I call bullshit.
• 27:03
  I believe that aliens exist, but I don't believe anything the
• 27:06
  government tells me about aliens.
• 27:07
  I think that's all nonsense. I think them saying that was a
• 27:11
  distraction technique. But I also did kind of consider
• 27:16
  the fact that okay, let's just say for instance, that this was
• 27:20
  genuine and they were trying to ease us into this idea of
• 27:22
  telling us that aliens are real. How would you go about doing
• 27:28
  that in a way that wouldn't incite panic?
• 27:31
  Now let's give some context here.
• 27:33
  Every single movie we've ever seen and are, granted, they are
• 27:36
  movies. But movies are often a
• 27:38
  reflection of life and how people really are.
• 27:41
  And the more I live in this world, the more I realize that I
• 27:43
  always used to think like, well, that's not how people react.
• 27:46
  And then you look at something like the pandemic and how
• 27:50
  people, you know beat each other, beat each other up in
• 27:54
  supermarkets to get toilet roll, and you realize that people are
• 27:57
  idiots and that they will panic about literally anything.
• 28:00
  Another good example, we had a massive fuel crisis here in the
• 28:04
  UK right around the time that the Ukraine, Russia war started.
• 28:08
  And it meant that people were queuing up frantically to fill
• 28:13
  up their petrol in their cars and also like pour extra stuff
• 28:17
  into like gas canisters or whatever, basically hoarding by
• 28:23
  hoarding stuff. And it was people's natural
• 28:27
  reaction. They were scared.
• 28:28
  They were worried. So they started hoarding.
• 28:30
  Yeah. During COVID everyone was, you
• 28:32
  know, hoarding loads and loads, not just toilet paper but, you
• 28:36
  know, like sanitary products, anything that was like basic
• 28:39
  essentials, you know, like just almost this kind of doomsday
• 28:43
  style approach to to survival. Right now I'm not going to like
• 28:49
  have a massive go at people. I understand, Like you get
• 28:51
  scared. You do think, you don't think
• 28:53
  rationally. I understand that not everyone
• 28:55
  is levelheaded all of the time. You know, I'm not going to sit
• 29:00
  here and say I'm always 100% levelheaded.
• 29:02
  We all have our moments where we stressed the fuck out and maybe
• 29:05
  react in a sort of purely emotional way.
• 29:07
  However, when we bring it back to aliens and we think about the
• 29:11
  concept of do aliens exist? If tomorrow, I don't know, an
• 29:17
  alien was revealed in a press conference and the aliens start
• 29:20
  talking to us, everyone would lose their fucking mind.
• 29:24
  And I guarantee you it would be like civil war.
• 29:27
  People would would be, you know, there'd be loads of people just
• 29:30
  going nuts and be like, I'm going to destroy the aliens,
• 29:33
  screw the aliens, all that kind of stuff.
• 29:37
  It would be a cause for concern for sure.
• 29:42
  A big part of me kind of looks at this and thinks, do you know
• 29:45
  what? Maybe the government in some way
• 29:50
  is trying to protect us on that front.
• 29:52
  Like maybe aliens do exist and they're finding a way to ease us
• 30:00
  into this. I don't know.
• 30:01
  A lot of questions I can ask you with this, Josh.
• 30:05
  I think let's just start with your initial kind of reaction to
• 30:09
  that news that aliens are real. Yeah, man.
• 30:13
  One of the most interesting parts of the way that our
• 30:17
  government has been presenting this to us is that it's become
• 30:22
  quite obvious that our elected officials are not the people who
• 30:29
  are in charge of or understand these programs.
• 30:33
  There are two governments, you know, they call it the shadow
• 30:36
  government, you know, call it whatever you want, but these
• 30:40
  parts of government? Seemed to be run by defense
• 30:43
  contractors, military people. So what you're seeing is earlier
• 30:48
  in the year there was an organization that it's called
• 30:52
  Arrow a ARO and they are tasked with, it's a Pentagon based task
• 30:59
  force that's basically tasked with.
• 31:02
  And analyzing any UAP's, what they call it now that's the, the
• 31:07
  new word for UFO, Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon or I
• 31:12
  believe now they've even changed it again to UFO or to
• 31:16
  Unidentified aerial phenomenon. They they keep flopping back and
• 31:19
  forth between those two I believe.
• 31:22
  So what they did is they had a little press conference and they
• 31:24
  showed a video that was taken in.
• 31:27
  I believe it was Iraq during the war.
• 31:31
  And it's interesting that these things tend to be seen more so
• 31:34
  in war zones. That's why the first sightings
• 31:40
  or the the first ramping up of UFO sightings happened when we
• 31:44
  dropped the nuclear bombs on Japan.
• 31:48
  So this arrow is what they call it a ARO.
• 31:51
  They're tasked with again looking into the UFO phenomenon,
• 31:55
  and they released this interesting video of.
• 32:00
  A ball, it's it's like a just a sphere, a metal sphere that was
• 32:06
  just flying through. I believe it was drone footage
• 32:10
  of Iraq during the war. And they had said this is
• 32:15
  something that we just, we don't know what it is.
• 32:17
  We have no idea. And that was essentially the end
• 32:21
  of the press conference. That's all they did was
• 32:22
  essentially show this. But this video and and photos of
• 32:25
  it had already been released. They had already been
• 32:28
  declassified and you could find them online to certain people
• 32:31
  who are who cover Ufo's had already shown them.
• 32:35
  And then there was another press conference.
• 32:38
  There's this guy named David Grush.
• 32:40
  He is the most recent whistleblower.
• 32:43
  He was a high level intelligence official who came forward and
• 32:47
  essentially said that he knows of people and talked to the to
• 32:53
  the people who were involved in back engineering programs of
• 32:58
  downed craft. And he testified to Congress
• 33:02
  along with Ryan Graves, who was a military guy, and also
• 33:06
  Commander David Fraver, who's a military guy as well.
• 33:08
  Both have seen Ufo's and have actually tried to engage with
• 33:14
  them in their aircraft, which is a super interesting story as
• 33:17
  well. Both of those guys that have
• 33:19
  really, really interesting stories, but one of the main
• 33:23
  points that. David Grush was trying to get
• 33:26
  across. And something that is so, so
• 33:28
  intriguing to me is that the defense contractors of the world
• 33:32
  are the ones who are in possession of these craft, not
• 33:36
  our elected officials, not necessarily our government.
• 33:39
  The people that you and I know as government presidents,
• 33:43
  senators, you know, congressmen, those are not the people who
• 33:46
  know about what's happening here.
• 33:49
  There's a there. There's a.
• 33:50
  There's an obvious divide. Because during the congressional
• 33:53
  hearing, I mean all of our, you know, some of our top
• 33:57
  congressmen and congresswomen were asking some really good
• 34:00
  questions and they don't know about what's going on.
• 34:03
  They're they're trying to figure it out.
• 34:05
  So what's really intriguing to me is that we have this aspect
• 34:08
  of our government who funnels our tax dollars to defense
• 34:14
  contractors like Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin.
• 34:18
  And they are the ones who are in control of what happens to any
• 34:23
  of these craft that happen to be found.
• 34:25
  And this is a fascinate important.
• 34:27
  So I did steer off Ufo's for a second.
• 34:29
  But again we're gonna, we're probably gonna touch on a lot of
• 34:32
  different things connected with this that are important just in
• 34:35
  general. This idea that private business
• 34:39
  has a hold over government. It blows my mind.
• 34:43
  I saw it in the in the banking industry a lot, you know, like
• 34:47
  we bailed out a but in the UK we bailed out a bunch of banks
• 34:51
  after the 2008 financial crisis. And I remember thinking at the
• 34:55
  time and again, look, I was just some idiotic teenager, what the
• 34:58
  hell do I know, right? But I looked at it and I was
• 35:00
  like, why is the government funding or bailing out a
• 35:07
  privately owned company? Now don't get me wrong, I
• 35:10
  realized the the fact that a lot of people like people that you
• 35:14
  and me were going to lose a lot of money and and that would
• 35:17
  really hurt the economy in some shape or form, right?
• 35:20
  But I looked at that and I was like, why is another, why isn't
• 35:24
  another private company buying them out or something?
• 35:27
  Why is why is that not being taken care of by the businesses
• 35:31
  themselves? Why is that?
• 35:32
  Why is that the government and the taxpayers problem?
• 35:36
  I looked at it like, you know, I understand that a government
• 35:38
  obviously by definition has to govern, but it's always very
• 35:43
  iffy when there's interference. Now a lot of what I'm saying
• 35:47
  will come across as like naive. Like I do realize that the
• 35:51
  government is heavily invested in business in many shapes and
• 35:54
  forms, both legal and maybe not not so legal.
• 35:59
  And you know, I know there's things like, as you put it,
• 36:01
  funneling or another way. But it is lobbying.
• 36:05
  But we know that people who support government will give
• 36:12
  them money particularly during the time.
• 36:17
  So like in these states, it'd be during the US presidential
• 36:20
  campaigns. That's how all of the candidates
• 36:23
  get their money. If you ever wonder and like, how
• 36:25
  do they have all this money, a lot of it will be from their own
• 36:27
  pocket. You know, for instance, you know
• 36:29
  Bush that all that money came from oil for the most part.
• 36:32
  But there were a lot of financial backers as well, like,
• 36:34
  be it companies, people of interest.
• 36:36
  You had an interest in that specific person getting elected
• 36:39
  because when that person gets elected in return, it's like a
• 36:43
  reward. It's like I give you this money,
• 36:46
  you make sure that this goes into law or you make sure that
• 36:49
  this thing happens and and the exact same thing happens in the
• 36:53
  UK, just in a slightly different way.
• 36:55
  Now bringing it back to UFO's, it's interesting that as you
• 37:01
  said, like pretty much all the power and information comes from
• 37:06
  privately owned companies and not from the government itself.
• 37:08
  It's always like the government just knows Jack shit.
• 37:11
  They have to wait for the companies to tell them and also
• 37:15
  tell them like how they need to relay this information.
• 37:18
  And like, it's hard to not sit and play conspiracy theories
• 37:22
  because I like to kind of look at the facts at all times and
• 37:27
  not just can purely delve into to conspiracy.
• 37:30
  But at the same time, when you ask these people like a straight
• 37:34
  question and they can't give you that answer and the official
• 37:39
  statements on any given incident just have so many holes in them,
• 37:45
  it's very difficult to take it seriously.
• 37:47
  So when you mentioned, for instance, the idea of like a
• 37:49
  shadow government, right, I've always been open to that
• 37:53
  possibility and concept. But when it specifically comes
• 37:56
  down to UF O's and the concept of whether or not UF O's exist,
• 38:01
  I feel like the governments that we see, they can't be the only
• 38:07
  player in. There's got to be many other
• 38:11
  people around the world, organizations, companies, many
• 38:14
  of which we're aware of as the build, build, build, build about
• 38:18
  group is an example of that. Obviously, you've got a lot of
• 38:21
  the world's wealthiest families as an example.
• 38:24
  You know, like the way things are and the way they're told to
• 38:28
  us are two different things, you know, and that all again, try
• 38:33
  not to get into conspiracy, but that's the reality.
• 38:36
  I mean, we see it every day. We get lied to in a very small
• 38:40
  manner in everyday life, and sometimes we look at that and we
• 38:46
  go, yeah, this shit happens. But other times if we sit there
• 38:49
  and we go, no, hang on, that's outrageous.
• 38:51
  I want justice. How dare they lie to me?
• 38:53
  How dare they do this? How dare they do that?
• 38:55
  It's interesting because when you start challenging these
• 38:58
  things, that's when sometimes dodgy things can start
• 39:03
  happening. Unexplained phenomenon can start
• 39:06
  happening. I think we're in a very
• 39:08
  interesting time right now because if we take things like
• 39:13
  the Epstein thing just as an example, I was amazed that that
• 39:19
  guy actually got convicted and sent down and so did his
• 39:23
  associate Jesus name Maxwell. I believe her name was.
• 39:29
  That fascinated me because those were two people that were very
• 39:31
  kind of invested in that higher world.
• 39:34
  And and you know, like they had all high and friends in high
• 39:37
  places as the old saying goes. But they were all like very
• 39:41
  clearly had their finger in a lot of different pies And they
• 39:43
  knew and a lot of people and they were operating at a level
• 39:46
  that we would never see or know about like, you know, then they
• 39:50
  get arrested and charged for these crimes.
• 39:56
  And I looked at that and I was like, I don't know about you,
• 39:59
  but I looked at that and I thought, who did they piss off?
• 40:02
  Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't look at their
• 40:06
  crimes. I was like, who?
• 40:08
  Who? Because they must have been
• 40:12
  protected or or like, let's look at it in a very basic manner,
• 40:19
  your friends are your friends until they become your enemies.
• 40:23
  And what happens when people become your enemies?
• 40:26
  Some people. You know, they hold a grudge.
• 40:29
  They just don't want anything to do with you.
• 40:31
  Other enemies will throw you under a bus in order to save
• 40:35
  themselves, right? We see this very commonly in the
• 40:40
  workplace. And this is with like people
• 40:42
  that aren't your friends, people that barely know you.
• 40:44
  They're just trying to save their own back.
• 40:45
  And in order to do that, they will absolutely throw you out to
• 40:49
  drive. But when it's people that you've
• 40:52
  known and done business with and maybe even are very close with,
• 40:57
  that's kind of like an unreal level of betrayal.
• 41:02
  And I look at instances like this and I just kind of can't
• 41:08
  help but think there's more to it.
• 41:10
  I just can't sit and believe the information that's given to me
• 41:14
  officially because going back to just, sorry to, you know, sound
• 41:18
  like a broken record. But the official accounts never
• 41:21
  really hi there. And, you know, I look at like
• 41:24
  the wider read. There's a reason.
• 41:25
  There's always several reasons behind anything.
• 41:27
  And the media never sits and talks about those things.
• 41:31
  They're not going to sit there and say, well, we reckon that
• 41:33
  actually the reason this has happened is because they've not
• 41:36
  annoyed some people and fallen out with some.
• 41:38
  They're not going to say that. They're going to talk about
• 41:39
  whatever fits the agenda at a given time or whatever whoever's
• 41:45
  paying them is telling them to say.
• 41:48
  This is one of the reasons why I don't watch the news, because
• 41:50
  it's not the news, You know, It's like you you want the news
• 41:54
  and facts. You have to kind of like go out
• 41:56
  and find them yourself. Really can't rely on media
• 41:59
  outlets anymore. I don't think you ever really
• 42:01
  could, to be honest. But I don't know.
• 42:03
  There's a lot to unpack there. How can we bring this back to
• 42:06
  your face? Well, it definitely seems like
• 42:11
  they probably killed Epstein. I mean, I don't know.
• 42:14
  It just seems that, who knows, I'm in the legal Regency.
• 42:19
  Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 42:20
  Let's let's allegedly. Allegedly the alleged
• 42:24
  informational and entertainment purposes only.
• 42:30
  But he was also involved a lot with scientists and contractors
• 42:34
  himself, so it's even possible that he was involved with some
• 42:39
  of this this UFO UAP stuff. But yeah, I it's.
• 42:44
  It seems that somebody had to go down for what was going on with
• 42:48
  the whole Epstein thing, and he was starting to get sloppy.
• 42:50
  He was arrested a few times. And if if you ask me, I I think
• 42:55
  that there's people beyond Epstein that are doing the same
• 42:59
  things he was. I mean, it's just seems that he
• 43:01
  was the kind of guy that would get dirt on you and then that
• 43:08
  would allow him to control you, you know what I mean?
• 43:10
  He seemed to me like a government asset.
• 43:14
  Somebody who would. I mean, he had a painting of
• 43:18
  Bill Clinton in a dress in his like the lobby of his apartment.
• 43:23
  Like, come on, that is a clear statement that he owns Bill
• 43:28
  Clinton. If you walked into one of your
• 43:30
  your friends houses and you saw a painting of yourself up on the
• 43:34
  wall in a dress, you would think to yourself, shit, this guy's
• 43:37
  got me, you know what I mean? It's a clear power move.
• 43:40
  And there there's just so many things with Epstein that are
• 43:42
  really, really suss in my opinion.
• 43:44
  But I can. I could tie this back to Ufo's,
• 43:49
  I reckon. So speaking specifically to the
• 43:53
  idea of being sloppy. I agree with everything you just
• 43:57
  said, by the way. But I think that maybe when it
• 44:02
  comes to the reporting of Ufo's and certainly people who speak
• 44:06
  out or people who, you know, whistleblower certainly have to
• 44:11
  always be careful. I mean just look at Snowden as
• 44:13
  an example. Now granted that wasn't to do a
• 44:15
  UFO, that's to do with government stuff.
• 44:16
  But he how has to live pretty much in an existence where he's
• 44:22
  like off the grid constantly avoiding the government.
• 44:27
  Don't forget that. It's like it's not like a dodgy
• 44:30
  wing of the government or something.
• 44:31
  He's avoiding the government, like the official government for
• 44:36
  just coming out and saying what he saw.
• 44:40
  And granted, a lot of people will say okay, well, maybe he
• 44:42
  lied about it, you know, and then that, you know, if if
• 44:46
  someone has lied about something, an organization that
• 44:48
  you're a part of would want to refute that.
• 44:51
  Right? You know, especially if it was
• 44:52
  not nonfactual. I get that.
• 44:54
  I understand that. But let's suppose for a minute
• 44:56
  that he was correct in in the things that he was saying, you
• 44:59
  know, should he not be protected for doing that or you do what
• 45:05
  I'm saying like. That's the thing.
• 45:07
  It's like the US government has never actually refuted his
• 45:10
  claims. They just say we got to get this
• 45:12
  guy because he, you know what I mean?
• 45:14
  So they're just after him. They they've never said, you
• 45:17
  know what, same with Julian Assange.
• 45:19
  They threw that dude in jail and he's rotting in prison just for
• 45:22
  being an honest journalist That him and Snowden, To me, they're
• 45:26
  heroes of our time that are just not appreciated to the degree
• 45:30
  that they should be right now. I see this again and again and
• 45:33
  again in various countries in the world, and it it really
• 45:37
  often makes me think about this idea that like, if you do speak
• 45:41
  the truth or you try to eventually the system's going to
• 45:44
  get you, it's going to punish you for doing so.
• 45:48
  Shit. I mean, look, we're just two
• 45:49
  random guys doing a podcast, but you look at it and you're like,
• 45:54
  what if this became a problem? You know what I mean?
• 45:56
  Like, every time. But I'm.
• 45:58
  I'm of the opinion, you know what?
• 45:59
  Like, fuck it. Like there's so much to worry
• 46:02
  about in the world and be scared of just fuck it.
• 46:05
  Just you might as well just speak the truth.
• 46:07
  And if some people hear it, good.
• 46:10
  But I I'm also kind of open to the idea that there's a lot of
• 46:13
  bullshit. You know like just because
• 46:14
  conspiracy theorists want to you know throw all these ideas out
• 46:18
  there that doesn't make it fact either because I I find with a
• 46:22
  lot of conspiracy theories there are major holes in them a lot of
• 46:27
  the time. And it's it's it's always a
• 46:28
  shame as well when a conspiracy theory stops being about the
• 46:33
  quest for truth and facts and starts becoming about trying to
• 46:37
  support a given narrative or theory.
• 46:39
  It's a bit like if a scientist, you know, has like a very
• 46:41
  specific hypothesis and that you know the the experiment is not
• 46:46
  going well and they're not getting what they want.
• 46:48
  And it's like, well, but this is a good thing because now you're
• 46:53
  disproving this or or you're learning something else, but
• 46:56
  they're so desperate in, you know, finding evidence that this
• 47:01
  thing is true. And that's a deeper problem that
• 47:04
  exists in humanity of this idea of of like if you can't believe,
• 47:08
  defeat your own beliefs and purely just focus on the facts,
• 47:14
  then you're going to always be trapped in this idea of of
• 47:16
  chasing that which is not true, that which is in fact
• 47:22
  nonfactual. Or you know you'll never be able
• 47:25
  to grow, but you got to be in a position where you can accept
• 47:28
  that, hey, you're going to be wrong about things and things
• 47:31
  are going to be disproven. And it's something that maybe
• 47:33
  even like everything that you believe in right now might be a
• 47:35
  total lie. You have to be prepared for that
• 47:38
  and and understand that you might have to change everything
• 47:43
  potentially. But that's only going to happen
• 47:47
  if if you're focusing purely on the facts and not just what
• 47:50
  people tell you or what you read about.
• 47:52
  And you know, I really want to push that idea as well because
• 47:55
  like although a lot of the, especially when it comes to UF
• 48:00
  O's, we're talking about secondhand accounts of things,
• 48:04
  you know. Now one thing and I'll explore
• 48:07
  this more with you Josh, in the UFO Sightings episode that we're
• 48:11
  going to do as a follow up to this episode.
• 48:12
  But I find it very interesting, like the different sources that
• 48:16
  it came from. Because it's one thing when it's
• 48:20
  like just a random member of the public, but when it's coming
• 48:23
  from like police officers, air traffic controllers, former REF
• 48:27
  pilots, it starts to kind of lend a bit more weight to it, I
• 48:31
  suppose, or a bit more, should we say cachet?
• 48:35
  You know, you start wondering, Well, it's like one thing if,
• 48:38
  if, you know Bob is out in the garden and he thinks he sees
• 48:41
  like something flying across the sky versus former RAF pilot
• 48:46
  who's been, you know, in the skies for like 30 years of his
• 48:49
  life. And, you know, he sees a lot of
• 48:51
  different things and would be able to distinguish between, you
• 48:54
  know, what's maybe a government aircraft or Weber balloon and
• 48:57
  what is something that you've never seen before in your entire
• 49:00
  life that doesn't fit. Anything that you would be
• 49:05
  either trained to look out for or be aware is just human craft,
• 49:09
  not necessarily alien craft, but just something identifiable as
• 49:14
  like a human craft, Some description, but yeah, so we
• 49:19
  brought it back to UFOs. There you go.
• 49:21
  See, I tried my best. Let's talk more about the the
• 49:25
  timelines of and the history behind UFOs.
• 49:28
  So Project Blue Book sightings of Unidentified aerial
• 49:33
  phenomena. See already got UA P's back in
• 49:36
  back in the day, and in 1948 the US Air Force began an
• 49:41
  investigation of these reports called Project Sign Cold War.
• 49:45
  Tension was mounting, and the initial opinion of those
• 49:48
  involved with the project was that the UF O's were most likely
• 49:51
  sophisticated Soviet aircraft. Although some researchers
• 49:55
  suggested that they might be spacecraft from other worlds,
• 49:59
  the so-called extraterrestrial hypothesis ETH.
• 50:03
  Remember that because we're going to be using that a lot
• 50:06
  throughout this conversation. Within a year, Project Sign was
• 50:10
  succeeded by Project Grudge. Who names these for the
• 50:13
  projects, by the way? Just like a Project Grudge,
• 50:17
  which in 1952 was itself replaced by the longest lived of
• 50:21
  the official inquiries into UFO's, Project Blue Book.
• 50:26
  Headquartered at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in
• 50:30
  Dayton, OH from 1952 to 1969, Project Blue Book compiled
• 50:36
  reports of more than 12,000 sightings or events, each of
• 50:41
  which was ultimately classified as one identified with a known
• 50:46
  astronomical, atmospheric or artificial, which they say is
• 50:50
  human caused phenomenon or two unidentified.
• 50:54
  The latter category, approximately 6% of the total of
• 50:59
  the total, included cases for which there was insufficient
• 51:02
  information to make an identification with a known
• 51:06
  phenomenon. One thing I just wanted to touch
• 51:09
  on quickly here is that this was obviously, as the text mentions,
• 51:15
  that happening throughout the Cold War.
• 51:19
  And you just know that those two governments were using this to
• 51:23
  their advantage to sort of you would dissuade the public or
• 51:29
  distract the public or try and kind of convince them, you know,
• 51:32
  like oh it's it's it's the Russians doing and what's the
• 51:34
  Americans doing or it's like that it's this that never.
• 51:37
  And I don't know it's it's interesting when politics get
• 51:41
  involved with things like this because UF O's and
• 51:44
  extraterrestrial beings that supersedes government and
• 51:48
  earthly things, right. If we discover tomorrow
• 51:53
  definitive 100% thousand ironclad proof the aliens exist
• 51:59
  and are among us, it kind of means that our problems here on
• 52:04
  earth are quite lesser than really.
• 52:07
  I mean I think they are anyway, but and I I look, I'm like Miss
• 52:11
  Captain wishes it was Star Trek. So I look at you know Star Trek,
• 52:18
  The Next Generation, the the movies.
• 52:21
  I I knew this was going to come up at some point.
• 52:23
  But in the movie Star Trek the first contact I believe is the
• 52:29
  movie. It tells a double story that
• 52:32
  basically an alien species trying to kill humans and the
• 52:36
  rest of the universe blah blah blah.
• 52:37
  But they go, they have. Basically part of the story is
• 52:39
  they have to go back to the point where humans established
• 52:44
  first contact with aliens, specifically the Vulcans.
• 52:50
  Now it's explored in the story that the the aliens, the Vulcans
• 52:55
  have been monitoring the humans for some time and they've also
• 53:00
  sort of established this as law within the Star Trek series that
• 53:03
  aliens always do this, but they hide, they don't interfere on
• 53:07
  purpose because of this thing called the Prime Directive.
• 53:09
  They don't want to kind of interfere with natural progress,
• 53:11
  which kind of makes sense logically.
• 53:14
  I think that's probably something that we would most
• 53:17
  likely establish if if we were able to do that, you know.
• 53:21
  Anyway, the the reason why the Vulcans choose to come and meet
• 53:25
  humans is because the humans create faster than light travel
• 53:32
  or as they call it, warp, warp speed, right.
• 53:36
  And this, as they kind of say in the movie, is an example of
• 53:39
  humans intelligence reaching. It's kind of funny as well.
• 53:43
  It's like reaching a point that's actually worth, like the
• 53:47
  aliens taking a legitimate notice in and therefore wanting
• 53:51
  to meet them because before that they were considered primitive.
• 53:53
  Which I just found that hilarious because it's clearly a
• 53:56
  comment on current humans. And, you know, I think it's fair
• 53:59
  to say that we are primitive. When you look at the world's
• 54:01
  problems overall and then you look at like our potential, what
• 54:04
  we could be doing and what we are doing, it's very difficult
• 54:07
  to argue with the fact that we are primitive in a lot of
• 54:10
  different ways. Not to say we're not capable of
• 54:12
  amazing things, and we don't do amazing things every day because
• 54:15
  we do just say we could be exploring the stars right now.
• 54:19
  What are we doing? And I think that movie really,
• 54:22
  really just, I know it's a movie, but it really does
• 54:26
  outline some of the problems we're having and bringing it
• 54:31
  back to what we've discussed so far.
• 54:34
  You mentioned this earlier, and I thought this was interesting.
• 54:37
  You'd said that there was an influx of sightings right around
• 54:43
  the time that we, you know, drop the the nuclear bombs.
• 54:49
  I wonder if maybe that's not a coincidence and maybe that's
• 54:55
  aliens taking notice of that. And see, this is twofold because
• 55:01
  you can look at this in two two different ways.
• 55:04
  Either one, it's just a weird coincidence, or two, the aliens
• 55:10
  are taking an active notice in us and that explains why there's
• 55:13
  been so many sightings. But then also it begs the
• 55:17
  question, are these aliens just really sloppy?
• 55:19
  Like being seen like all the time.
• 55:21
  But or does it not matter that we see them because we can't
• 55:24
  really comprehend what they are? I mean, it's interesting
• 55:29
  because, I mean the there's crazy stories about they've seen
• 55:35
  Ufo's come down over military bases that are containing nukes
• 55:41
  and they have shut the nukes down.
• 55:45
  And they've also turned them on. There's been a situation where
• 55:50
  nuclear weapons have been activated by UFO or UAP.
• 55:55
  And the people who were at the facility were flipping out,
• 55:58
  like, how do we turn? Like they couldn't even turn it
• 56:01
  off. They don't, they don't know what
• 56:02
  to do. And then the UAP shut it down.
• 56:06
  So it's like they're it's almost as if they're almost showing us
• 56:09
  that they have control over. All the things that we do, which
• 56:13
  begs to question what kind of technology is it really that
• 56:18
  we're seeing here, like what's the potential of that tech?
• 56:22
  And it has been speculated that they take an interest in war.
• 56:29
  In terms of humans against humans they seem to be.
• 56:34
  All over the place in war zones. As I said earlier, Arrow
• 56:37
  released that video of the spherical object over Iraq.
• 56:42
  That was during the war. And they do seem to have an
• 56:45
  interest in in in that. And I think about it as if, you
• 56:49
  know, it's like us humans when we view like chimps and ants and
• 56:56
  all kinds of other animals, one we don't interfere with them
• 56:59
  generally we let them do their thing.
• 57:01
  We observe from afar. They can see us, obviously.
• 57:05
  You know, they they've already responded to, you know, visual
• 57:08
  cues of us being there. But just like the UFO and UAP,
• 57:12
  we don't really get involved. I wonder what they think are
• 57:15
  squirrels thinking when they look at a car, they're like,
• 57:17
  what is that? It's a UFO.
• 57:18
  We have to go, you know what I mean?
• 57:20
  Or an unidentified driving object.
• 57:22
  We have to go tell the Klan. But it's just interesting, you
• 57:26
  know, like there's a there's a zoo hypothesis, they call it.
• 57:31
  To where essentially they're looking at us as we look at
• 57:35
  other species, they're researching us.
• 57:38
  And one of the most interesting things you can research as a
• 57:41
  human is if you're seeing a warring species, you see them go
• 57:45
  at like go to battle. That's gotta be the most
• 57:46
  interesting thing you can observe.
• 57:48
  So I would think that they would come and and observe that with
• 57:52
  us. Hey, you remember earlier when I
• 57:56
  said do you believe in aliens? Let's just come back to that for
• 58:00
  a second. Where'd you sit on that?
• 58:02
  Man, it's so tough to me. There's a vast number of things
• 58:08
  that this could be David Grush and a lot of these
• 58:12
  whistleblowers, claimed NHI, which stands for non human
• 58:16
  intelligence. That is a better explanation to
• 58:20
  me because it doesn't have the connotations of like a Gray
• 58:24
  alien with big eyes that looks like us and sort of walks around
• 58:27
  like us and flies ships. Non human can mean anything
• 58:31
  that's not us. And with the level of technology
• 58:36
  that we're seeing, to consider it, non human is.
• 58:40
  It's very intriguing because then you have to think about.
• 58:43
  So then what does non human mean?
• 58:45
  What kind of forms can non human take?
• 58:48
  And also how are they able to have the level of technology
• 58:54
  they have? I mean the the fact that we see
• 58:56
  them moving at breakneck speeds, turning on a dime, no heat
• 59:00
  signature. I mean generally when you have a
• 59:03
  high-powered object that moves, there has to be a heat signature
• 59:07
  because it exudes heat to then go in One Direction.
• 59:11
  But it seems that these, according to some people who
• 59:15
  have been in the back engineering programs like Bob
• 59:20
  Lazar is another one he He came out back in like the 80s and he
• 59:25
  had claimed to be part of a back engineering program where he was
• 59:29
  hired to try to recreate what these UAP&UF O's are according
• 59:36
  to some of the the crashes and crash reports.
• 59:39
  And he claimed that they were able to these, these ships were
• 59:44
  manipulating gravity. And it's interesting also to
• 59:48
  think that they could be drones. They might not be manned ships.
• 59:52
  They could, they could be drones of some sort.
• 59:54
  They could be Chinese or Russian drones too.
• 59:57
  They could be, you know, American.
• 59:59
  So I think the people who claim to be in the know about this say
• 1:00:05
  a lot of times that most of what we see.
• 1:00:09
  Is actually man made, but it has been back engineered from downed
• 1:00:15
  craft that we've found. So we may be seeing some things
• 1:00:19
  that are are from whatever star system or you know whatever you
• 1:00:22
  want to speculate as to where these non human intelligences
• 1:00:25
  come from, but they say that most of the stuff we see is
• 1:00:28
  actually ours. Yeah, this is interesting to me
• 1:00:32
  because. I feel like it's foolish to to
• 1:00:36
  assume we're the only sentient life or any life form.
• 1:00:39
  I like this idea that you present of non human life form
• 1:00:43
  not having to be like a physical being because obviously that
• 1:00:46
  opens up and we've had conversations about this before
• 1:00:48
  like you know inter dimension different planes of existence
• 1:00:53
  and stuff which are totally there with you on that one.
• 1:00:56
  But I I kind of find this idea fascinating of of us being
• 1:01:00
  investigated. By the aliens or non human life
• 1:01:05
  forms in the same manner as us looking at ants because we're
• 1:01:09
  fascinated by ants. Fuck me like the amount of
• 1:01:12
  documentaries out there, but then ants are amazing, like the
• 1:01:16
  way that they just. I don't know guys, if you ever
• 1:01:18
  get a chance, go check out some Ant documentaries.
• 1:01:20
  They are amazing like the way they work and stuff.
• 1:01:23
  But the point is, if you look at the state of the world right now
• 1:01:28
  and how humans are. I imagine if you were studying
• 1:01:32
  the human species, there'd be a lot of takeaways you'd have,
• 1:01:37
  right? You'd see the compassion, you'd
• 1:01:38
  see the love. But you'd also see that we are a
• 1:01:41
  species obsessed with war, you know, and we're talking over
• 1:01:46
  hundreds, thousands of years. You know, I think that in many
• 1:01:52
  ways, a lot of the movies we've seen, particularly in sci-fi.
• 1:01:55
  Have all often tried to depict worlds, and I'm not counting the
• 1:01:59
  dystopian ones or the dodgy ones, because obviously that's a
• 1:02:01
  reflection on the current day and and where we're likely to be
• 1:02:04
  headed. But the ones that are a bit more
• 1:02:06
  utopian trying to, you know, I mentioned Star Trek earlier as
• 1:02:10
  an example like where they're trying to paint this idea of
• 1:02:12
  like what we could be. It's like and that's still very
• 1:02:16
  possible, but at the same time it does kind of ignore.
• 1:02:22
  Some of the the the more negative aspects of humans, you
• 1:02:26
  know, we can be compassionate, we can be sharing, we can be
• 1:02:29
  loving, we can also be benevolent, malevolent, so we
• 1:02:33
  can be destructive, we can be selfish, you know, and it's
• 1:02:38
  difficult to navigate those traits.
• 1:02:40
  We can try to educate each other, we can try to to to work
• 1:02:43
  around those issues. But you know, we can't deny what
• 1:02:46
  we are. You know, all we can do is
• 1:02:50
  strive to be better. When I look at aliens and
• 1:02:54
  nonhuman life forms, this idea that they want to see us war is
• 1:02:59
  kind of horrible. But then I look at like
• 1:03:02
  intentions. If if, let's, let's look at it
• 1:03:05
  like this. If you're a higher species and
• 1:03:09
  you're observing a lower species, why would you be
• 1:03:13
  obsessed with the idea of of their war capabilities, with
• 1:03:17
  this idea that you plan to one day fight them?
• 1:03:21
  You know, doesn't really make my sense to me because I mean,
• 1:03:24
  obviously they could completely annihilate us right now.
• 1:03:28
  And I don't know, maybe unless they're like really sick and
• 1:03:30
  they just like this idea of like, oh, we're going to prime
• 1:03:33
  our future opponents. Maybe it's that sort of weird,
• 1:03:36
  you know, like predatoresque world where they're like
• 1:03:38
  scanning us and thinking about like, oh, once it becomes fair
• 1:03:42
  game, this is going to be great. It's going to be like sport for
• 1:03:46
  us or. Are they literally just showing
• 1:03:50
  a genuine interest? Are they just kind of fascinated
• 1:03:54
  and wondering what our potential are?
• 1:03:58
  Because I think we're an interesting point in history
• 1:04:01
  right now. In 100 years from now, the world
• 1:04:05
  is going to look very different obviously.
• 1:04:08
  But we've I see it as a very clear path.
• 1:04:11
  We can either go towards destruction, complete or an
• 1:04:14
  utter destruction or we can go towards.
• 1:04:18
  Something more positive where we build as a utopia.
• 1:04:22
  I also do look at this idea that maybe to get to the more
• 1:04:27
  positive point, perhaps we need to be destroyed first.
• 1:04:32
  Maybe that's the only way we learn bringing it back to Star
• 1:04:35
  Trek. And I know this is like really
• 1:04:37
  negative and people will be like, what the fuck is he
• 1:04:39
  talking about in Star Trek? First contact.
• 1:04:44
  They talk about the fact that World War Three has happened and
• 1:04:47
  that it's been like 20-30 years later and the remaining people
• 1:04:51
  are trying to rebuild society, sort of.
• 1:04:54
  They have some warring factions and stuff still.
• 1:04:56
  But these few people that are trying to build society, what
• 1:05:00
  are they trying to do? They're trying to build faster
• 1:05:02
  than like travel. They're trying to do something
• 1:05:05
  positive, and then that's the beginning of what then becomes
• 1:05:11
  their. Quite UN quote civilized society
• 1:05:13
  that they then build a a system where they've eradicated, you
• 1:05:20
  know, homelessness and famine and all these different things.
• 1:05:24
  They've created a world where people, humans, strive to be
• 1:05:28
  better because they now have purpose and are able to pursue
• 1:05:33
  things that aren't. The destruction of humanity or
• 1:05:37
  fighting over the basic resources.
• 1:05:39
  Everyone has access to those resources.
• 1:05:41
  Therefore the quest is for growth and for knowledge now,
• 1:05:45
  which is a beautiful concept, But again, it came at a cost.
• 1:05:52
  It came through the destruction of society.
• 1:05:56
  We look at video games for example, like the Fallout
• 1:06:00
  series, which explores this idea that, you know things go back to
• 1:06:04
  basics and humans kind of go into different factions.
• 1:06:07
  Same as The Walking Dead. I think The Walking Dead is is a
• 1:06:10
  I'll bet it's just aside it's got its inconsistencies and
• 1:06:15
  issues, which I can go on a whole podcast about that.
• 1:06:19
  But the way it sort of portrays humans I think is spot on if we
• 1:06:23
  were in a zombie apocalypse. You would definitely have people
• 1:06:27
  that would try and work together and then you'd have people that
• 1:06:31
  would just call out, try and kill others, get their
• 1:06:34
  resources, rob them, whatever, right?
• 1:06:36
  And you would always have that because that represents
• 1:06:39
  humanity. You've got you're good, you're
• 1:06:41
  bad and you're ugly. That's how it is.
• 1:06:44
  I don't think you can never really like stamp out the ugly,
• 1:06:46
  so to speak, because that is a part of us.
• 1:06:49
  We are all three and we are governed by our choices and
• 1:06:52
  decision making. That's what ultimately?
• 1:06:57
  Continues to be the driving force I think in human evolution
• 1:07:01
  is is like the choices we make and by the key decision makers
• 1:07:04
  and where that leads us. You know, anyway, we're veering
• 1:07:09
  off the path and try to bring us back is everything you want to
• 1:07:12
  sort of comment on there before I continue, Josh.
• 1:07:15
  Yeah, I mean just that, you know, you say human evolution
• 1:07:18
  and you know, human evolution, technological evolution, you
• 1:07:22
  know, if you're a nonhuman species, say, you know, we'll
• 1:07:26
  just say, we'll speculate and say they're from a different
• 1:07:29
  Galaxy or something and they have the ability to come here
• 1:07:31
  and to to view us. And you know, there as there is
• 1:07:36
  anecdotal evidence, maybe not I wouldn't consider anecdotal, but
• 1:07:39
  there are cave paintings. There are stories in like
• 1:07:43
  ancient stories about nonhuman intelligence, aliens being
• 1:07:48
  around here, even back then. So what's interesting is, say
• 1:07:52
  they were viewing us and looking at us ever since ancient times,
• 1:07:58
  and now they see that we've been able, as a species, to harness
• 1:08:02
  the power of a star and we put it into a weapon.
• 1:08:06
  That to me would be a really, really big reason to come back
• 1:08:10
  more often and be like, yo, what are these things doing?
• 1:08:13
  What are these monkey things doing with the ability that we
• 1:08:16
  we've, we've been able to harness the power of of of a
• 1:08:19
  star and put it into a bomb in order to kill other people, in
• 1:08:26
  order to to take over other lands.
• 1:08:28
  And if you look at what it is, what the Earth is, we don't even
• 1:08:33
  know what the Earth is. We think we know what the
• 1:08:35
  planets are because we have telescopes where we can look at
• 1:08:38
  them. But if you think about deeply
• 1:08:41
  what it is to be a solar system, why is the solar system doing
• 1:08:46
  what it does? What is the sun?
• 1:08:48
  What is the purpose of the Goldilocks zone?
• 1:08:51
  Like what is what's the what is the function of the Earth?
• 1:08:55
  And if there is a a biological entity that has grown on the
• 1:08:58
  earth that has the ability to literally destroy it, then I
• 1:09:03
  would think that's a very interesting thing to to keep
• 1:09:06
  track of and maybe even intervene with if it gets to a
• 1:09:09
  point where we are actually about to destroy the entire
• 1:09:14
  planet. OK, a couple of things there.
• 1:09:16
  Firstly, do you then think that maybe those aliens are scared we
• 1:09:22
  might use said technology to essentially destroy them in the
• 1:09:26
  future? Is that kind of what you're
• 1:09:28
  somewhat implying with that? I feel more so that they have a
• 1:09:33
  relationship and I care for the cosmos itself.
• 1:09:39
  I think that if they wanted to like engage with us in a violent
• 1:09:43
  manner, I think in an instant we could we would be gone.
• 1:09:46
  I don't think we have any chance.
• 1:09:48
  We could drop every nuke we have on them simultaneously and I
• 1:09:51
  don't think it would do a single thing.
• 1:09:54
  I don't think we, I mean, you know, according to a lot of the
• 1:09:56
  fighter pilots and people in the military that have witnessed the
• 1:10:00
  advancements that these things have have been able to show, I
• 1:10:05
  would say that we have no chance against them.
• 1:10:06
  And I I happen to agree. I don't think we have any chance
• 1:10:09
  in like a military conflict. But what I do see is it seems
• 1:10:14
  like they they care. You know, I I feel like if I was
• 1:10:18
  to say whether or not they are benevolent or malevolent and I
• 1:10:21
  had both of those options, I would lean more toward
• 1:10:24
  benevolent for a few reasons. We like to look at them and we
• 1:10:29
  anthropomorphize. You know, we we kind of project
• 1:10:32
  human traits onto higher and lower beings.
• 1:10:37
  So it feels to me like when we look at them and we project
• 1:10:40
  violent tendencies on them, we are just looking at a reflection
• 1:10:44
  of ourselves. I totally agree with you there.
• 1:10:47
  So I go on and I I feel like if you are say evolution is, I
• 1:10:54
  think it's it's hard to argue that evolution is not the
• 1:10:58
  evolution of consciousness. To me it seems obvious that
• 1:11:01
  evolution is the evolution of consciousness.
• 1:11:04
  And if you evolved and you have a higher level of consciousness
• 1:11:10
  than us, it seems that with with the higher levels of
• 1:11:14
  consciousness comes a greater sense of benevolence, a greater
• 1:11:18
  sense of unity. You know, I've accessed, as
• 1:11:21
  we've talked about before, higher states of consciousness
• 1:11:24
  using psychedelics and other people have using spiritual
• 1:11:26
  practices. And whenever you come into
• 1:11:28
  contact with it, with something that's at a higher level
• 1:11:31
  consciously, it's always based in a foundation of love and
• 1:11:35
  unity. And it seems that that's what
• 1:11:38
  we're working toward, that's what humans are doing.
• 1:11:40
  As we're evolving we we seem to be getting less and less warlike
• 1:11:46
  very slowly over time. You know we're we're seeing the
• 1:11:50
  greatest countries in our world abolishing slavery, treating
• 1:11:56
  women right. You know what I mean?
• 1:11:57
  It's like we're we're moving in the trajectory of higher levels
• 1:12:01
  of benevolence. So to me it it, it seems like if
• 1:12:06
  the non human intelligence call them aliens, whatever you'd
• 1:12:09
  like, if they're interested in anything it's probably
• 1:12:12
  preserving the cosmos. So they don't, they don't want
• 1:12:15
  us to blow each other up, I wouldn't think.
• 1:12:18
  Now this makes an interesting question cuz as I mentioned
• 1:12:20
  before, in the Star Trek universe they had the idea of
• 1:12:23
  the non intervention prime directive never interfere.
• 1:12:28
  Do you think set extraterrestrials?
• 1:12:31
  If we got to the point where we would considered destroying
• 1:12:34
  ourselves, do you think they'd intervene or not?
• 1:12:38
  I think if we had the potential to destroy the entire planet or
• 1:12:42
  to throw off the balance of the solar system, to throw off the
• 1:12:45
  balance of any cosmic ecosystem, I think then they would, if they
• 1:12:50
  are, you know, out there at all, I think then maybe they would
• 1:12:55
  interfere. Well, that begs the question,
• 1:12:57
  because theoretically we already have that power.
• 1:13:00
  That's what nuclear warheads are and if we are to believe what
• 1:13:04
  we're told. All of those nuclear warheads
• 1:13:07
  are all pointed at each other and all it takes is a few
• 1:13:09
  buttons and boom end of the world.
• 1:13:13
  So we already have that capability, do we not?
• 1:13:17
  Yeah. I mean, maybe again with the
• 1:13:20
  evolution of consciousness, maybe they can see farther into
• 1:13:26
  time more than us. Because time, in our opinion and
• 1:13:30
  our the way that we're taught time is like this linear thing.
• 1:13:34
  It takes a it's a timeline, it starts here and ends there.
• 1:13:39
  But in some wisdom traditions, time is not necessarily just one
• 1:13:45
  timeline. It's not eternal, it's more
• 1:13:47
  infinite. So it's possible that they have
• 1:13:50
  more of an insight as to our trajectory and when they see
• 1:13:53
  that we're on a trajectory that we can't turn ourselves around
• 1:13:56
  from, that's maybe when the intervention will happen.
• 1:14:00
  I mean, that's kind of hopeful, but who knows?
• 1:14:02
  Makes a fascinating question as well, because it's like, OK,
• 1:14:06
  let's suppose that these life forms can somewhat see into the
• 1:14:11
  future, but they can't see specifically which timeline and
• 1:14:15
  which future it is. I mean, that goes back into the
• 1:14:18
  whole timeline theory, universe theory, you know, quantum
• 1:14:22
  immortality theory. I think I've spoken to you about
• 1:14:24
  that before. For anyone who was not aware,
• 1:14:26
  it's this idea. That the end of the universe or
• 1:14:29
  end of the world is always occurring.
• 1:14:31
  But it happens so frequently and so often that we don't actually
• 1:14:36
  know that it's happening. And we just get bumped into new
• 1:14:39
  universes all the time. And the only evidence of it
• 1:14:42
  happening is things like the Mandela Effect.
• 1:14:45
  Yeah. Like things where you're so sure
• 1:14:47
  that that thing was a certain way and now it's different, you
• 1:14:49
  know? And then, you know, when you go
• 1:14:51
  to look back into it conveniently, it's it's
• 1:14:53
  different. But then.
• 1:14:55
  There's also the argument that while memory is fallible and
• 1:14:58
  maybe we're just remembering it differently, but I don't know, I
• 1:15:02
  think maybe there's some something to that.
• 1:15:05
  Anyway, moving on in the timeline of the Ufo's, I'm just
• 1:15:10
  going to kind of blast through this and if there's anything
• 1:15:12
  that's kind of worth delving into or delve into it.
• 1:15:16
  So we want to kind of finish this, this particular aspect of
• 1:15:19
  it off. So there's the Robertson
• 1:15:21
  Robertson Panel and the Condon Report.
• 1:15:24
  An American obsession with the UFO phenomenon was underway in
• 1:15:27
  the hot summer of 1952. A provocative series of radar
• 1:15:31
  and visual sightings occurred near National Airport in
• 1:15:34
  Washington, DC. Although these events were
• 1:15:38
  attributed to temperature inversions in the air over the
• 1:15:41
  city, not everyone was convinced by this explanation.
• 1:15:45
  Meanwhile, the number of UFO reports have climbed to a record
• 1:15:49
  high. This led the Central
• 1:15:51
  Intelligence Agency to prompt the US government to establish
• 1:15:54
  an expert panel of scientists to investigate the phenomena.
• 1:15:58
  The panel was headed by HP Robertson, a physicist at the
• 1:16:01
  California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, CA, and
• 1:16:06
  included other physicists, an astronomer, and a rocket
• 1:16:09
  engineer. It's like in the beginning of a
• 1:16:11
  joke and the Robertson panel met for three days in 1953 and
• 1:16:16
  interviewed military officers and the head of Project Blue
• 1:16:19
  Book. They also reviewed films and
• 1:16:21
  photographs of UFO's. Their conclusions were that 90%
• 1:16:26
  of the sightings could easily be attributed to astronomical and
• 1:16:29
  meteorological phenomena. e.g., black bright I love that go.
• 1:16:33
  They give a definition of this e.g. bright planets and stars,
• 1:16:37
  meteors, aurora's iron clouds, or to such Earthly objects as
• 1:16:42
  aircraft, balloons, birds and searchlights #2.
• 1:16:46
  There was no obvious security threat. #3 There was no evidence
• 1:16:50
  to support the ETH. Parts of the panel's report were
• 1:16:54
  kept classified until 1979, and this long period of secrecy
• 1:16:59
  helped fuel suspicions of a government cover up.
• 1:17:03
  A second committee was set up in 1966, at the request of the Air
• 1:17:07
  Force, to review the most interesting material gathered by
• 1:17:10
  Project Blue Book. Two years later, this committee,
• 1:17:14
  which made a detailed study of 59UFO sightings, released its
• 1:17:18
  results as Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects,
• 1:17:24
  also known as the Condom Report. Named for Edward U.
• 1:17:28
  Condom, the physicist who headed the investigation, the condom
• 1:17:32
  Report was reviewed by a special committee of the National
• 1:17:35
  Academy of Sciences. A total of 37 scientists wrote
• 1:17:39
  chapters or parts of chapters, for the report.
• 1:17:42
  Which covered investigations of the 59UFO sightings in detail,
• 1:17:46
  like the Robertson panel. The committee concluded that
• 1:17:49
  there was no evidence of anything other than commonplace
• 1:17:52
  phenomena in the reports and that UFO's did not warrant
• 1:17:55
  further investigation. This, together with a decline in
• 1:17:59
  citing activity, led to the dismantling of Project Blue Book
• 1:18:02
  in 1969. Before we continue, I find this
• 1:18:05
  really interesting because it's like they did all these
• 1:18:08
  different studies, all this, you know?
• 1:18:11
  Heavy investigation. Got the world's top people
• 1:18:14
  involved and essentially it was just like, yeah, nothing.
• 1:18:17
  Nothing to worry about. Absolutely nothing.
• 1:18:19
  All nonsense move on. Like, really nothing at all.
• 1:18:24
  It's just, I don't know, maybe it's Captain Cynicism coming out
• 1:18:27
  of me again. But just do you know what I'm
• 1:18:30
  saying? You know, very, very convenient.
• 1:18:34
  A massive thank you for watching or listening to this episode of
• 1:18:38
  the Christian Reef Podcast. We will be continuing this topic
• 1:18:42
  in Part 2. In the meantime, please
• 1:18:44
  subscribe to our YouTube channel, Christian PK Reeve,
• 1:18:49
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• 1:18:51
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• 1:19:02
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• 1:19:05
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• 1:19:08
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• 1:19:12
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  as well as other content from all different areas, including
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  the Patreon exclusive show Life with Christian Reeve This month
• 1:19:27
  we covered paranormal experiences as part of our
• 1:19:30
  spooky season. Thank you very much.
• 1:19:34
  Be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.