Latest / NHA Today Podcast / 154: From Retreat to Real Life: NHA & TrueNorth Unite to Support Health at Home

Transcript

154: From Retreat to Real Life: NHA & TrueNorth Unite to Support Health at Home · NHA Today Podcast

• 0:00
  I wasn't sure we can hear Lisa.
• 0:02
  She's sideways again.
• 0:03
  Oh my God, what is going on?
• 0:07
  I kind of like it sideways.
• 0:08
  I thought you would.
• 0:11
  Interesting.
• 0:12
  How can I put mine sideways?
• 0:18
  How did you fix it, Lisa?
• 0:19
  Well, I have two choices,
• 0:23
  front camera or front ultra-wide camera.
• 0:26
  And I think the front camera looks better
• 0:29
  because it makes me a normal size.
• 0:33
  But that's the one that keeps going
• 0:34
  sideways, so I'm not sure.
• 0:39
  I think that's good, Lisa.
• 0:39
  Okay, I'll try not to move at all,
• 0:41
  and maybe it'll stay.
• 0:42
  Okay, now we're getting feedback on Lisa.
• 0:46
  Yeah.
• 0:49
  Well.
• 0:52
  Can you click your mic arrow?
• 0:57
  Are you on an iPad?
• 0:59
  I have mic or mute,
• 1:00
  and that's all I have.
• 1:02
  You don't have a little arrow next to
• 1:04
  the mic?
• 1:06
  I do, but it says iPad microphone,
• 1:08
  and that's my only choice because that's
• 1:10
  all I have.
• 1:11
  Do you see the little gear icon?
• 1:15
  I'm sorry?
• 1:16
  Do you see the little gear icon?
• 1:17
  No, there's no gear.
• 1:19
  Right now she sounds okay.
• 1:22
  Okay.
• 1:22
  Could just be a connection thing.
• 1:24
  It might work out.
• 1:25
  So all of this on StreamYard gets recorded
• 1:27
  at your local level.
• 1:28
  So hopefully that'd be fine if there's any
• 1:30
  connection issues.
• 1:32
  Okay, guys, we are recording.
• 1:34
  I'm going to jump off stage and let
• 1:37
  you have at it Dr. Frank.
• 1:40
  Welcome.
• 1:41
  I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino,
• 1:43
  and today I'm really delighted to have as
• 1:45
  my guest three very old friends and
• 1:48
  colleagues who are doing some amazing
• 1:49
  things through the NHA.
• 1:51
  That's Mark Uberman,
• 1:52
  the president of the National Health
• 1:53
  Association, Wanda Uberman,
• 1:55
  the executive director,
• 1:57
  and my dear friend, Dr. Alan Goldhammer,
• 1:59
  who is the founder of one of the
• 2:01
  most iconic health and lifestyle centers
• 2:04
  that has focused on water-only fasting for
• 2:07
  decades and decades.
• 2:08
  is at the vanguard of fasting research in
• 2:11
  the world and the only place where
• 2:13
  licensed physicians can really be trained
• 2:15
  to do proper monitored supervised water
• 2:18
  fasting.
• 2:19
  Welcome everybody.
• 2:19
  It's so nice to see everybody.
• 2:22
  Let's pause on that for a second.
• 2:24
  So we got to introduce Dr. Lisa.
• 2:27
  as well i didn't know lisa was going
• 2:28
  to be part of this yep she's part
• 2:30
  of it all right i don't know anything
• 2:32
  about dr lisa i didn't know dr lisa
• 2:34
  akasella is one of our attendings uh
• 2:37
  doctors and she's also in charge of our
• 2:40
  educational outreach program so she's
• 2:43
  going to be actually the one that's oh
• 2:47
  she's a big player in this okay we
• 2:48
  shouldn't say attending we should say
• 2:52
  rounding
• 2:53
  Rounding doctors.
• 2:54
  One of our staff doctors.
• 2:55
  How about one of the physicians at True
• 2:57
  North?
• 2:57
  That's easy enough.
• 2:58
  Yeah, that's fine.
• 2:59
  That works.
• 3:01
  So the point is, though,
• 3:02
  she's really going to be leading the
• 3:04
  charge on all of our educational efforts.
• 3:08
  Okay.
• 3:09
  Well,
• 3:09
  we're going to get to that because I
• 3:10
  want to do a little intro related to
• 3:12
  the association itself to give it a
• 3:14
  perspective and then lead into the
• 3:16
  initiatives that are going on because
• 3:18
  we're going to spend time,
• 3:19
  a lot of time with those.
• 3:21
  Lisa, pronounce your last name again.
• 3:23
  Acacella or Acacella?
• 3:25
  Acacella.
• 3:26
  Nice Italian name.
• 3:27
  Good.
• 3:27
  Perfect.
• 3:27
  It is.
• 3:27
  What's the proper way to say it?
• 3:30
  Acacella.
• 3:31
  Acacella.
• 3:32
  Okay, good.
• 3:32
  But everyone else in my family...
• 3:34
  I got to do it like this.
• 3:35
  Acacella.
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:36
  Like acapella.
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:37
  Acapella.
• 3:41
  You know, if they cut my hands off,
• 3:42
  I can't even lecture.
• 3:43
  You know that, right?
• 3:44
  Just...
• 3:51
  welcome i'm your host dr frank sabatino
• 3:53
  and today i'm very excited to have as
• 3:55
  my guest dr mark uberman the president of
• 3:58
  the national health association wanda
• 4:00
  uberman the executive director of the
• 4:03
  national health association dr alan
• 4:05
  goldhammer with the founder and director
• 4:07
  of one of the truly iconic health and
• 4:09
  lifestyle centers that has focused on
• 4:12
  water only fasting for decades
• 4:14
  It's at the leading vanguard of fasting
• 4:16
  research in the world and involved with
• 4:19
  the only place training licensed
• 4:21
  physicians to do supervised fasting.
• 4:23
  And Dr. Lisa Akechela,
• 4:24
  who is really involved in the educational
• 4:27
  initiative of one of the major programs
• 4:29
  that we're going to talk about today.
• 4:31
  So welcome, everybody.
• 4:32
  It's good to see everybody.
• 4:33
  Thank you, Frank.
• 4:35
  As we segue into the programs themselves,
• 4:39
  I just want to make a comment because
• 4:41
  I think we need to highlight something
• 4:43
  about the association itself.
• 4:45
  You know, in the last twenty years,
• 4:47
  we've had this heyday of lifestyle
• 4:49
  medicine that has kind of escalated and
• 4:51
  everybody gets really happy and excited
• 4:54
  about all that.
• 4:55
  But before lifestyle medicine,
• 4:56
  we know that there was natural hygiene and
• 4:59
  natural hygiene was the first place that
• 5:01
  really was really addressing these
• 5:03
  healthful living parameters,
• 5:05
  including the remarkable benefits of water
• 5:08
  only fasting.
• 5:09
  And when I look at it,
• 5:10
  I find it really remarkable that the
• 5:12
  organization was founded in nineteen forty
• 5:14
  eight.
• 5:15
  Before there were even color television
• 5:17
  sets in this country,
• 5:19
  And seventy seven years later,
• 5:21
  through all of the events and economic and
• 5:23
  political upheavals and technologies that
• 5:25
  have evolved with AI, here we are,
• 5:28
  seventy seven years later,
• 5:30
  and it's still going strong,
• 5:31
  maybe stronger than ever.
• 5:33
  So I'd like, Mark, to you, you know,
• 5:35
  when you think about businesses and
• 5:37
  organizations, they come and go so much.
• 5:41
  What do you feel is the foundation for
• 5:42
  why this has thrived through this period
• 5:45
  of time?
• 5:45
  It's just a remarkable thing to me.
• 5:47
  Because I think that we were on to
• 5:49
  something very early on in nineteen forty
• 5:52
  eight and and then through the fifties and
• 5:54
  that when when we were the only people
• 5:57
  really talking about what they call today
• 5:59
  lifestyle medicine,
• 6:00
  we were talking that we had concepts that
• 6:03
  still ring true today,
• 6:04
  that health results from healthful living,
• 6:06
  health care is self-care,
• 6:07
  living in harmony with nature.
• 6:09
  These were all fundamental principles of
• 6:10
  the NHA.
• 6:12
  that I know that inspired you,
• 6:13
  that inspired Alan,
• 6:14
  inspired Lisa to become involved in the
• 6:17
  NHA over the decades and for so many
• 6:19
  more.
• 6:20
  These, you know, Shelton used to say,
• 6:22
  let us have the truth,
• 6:23
  though the heavens fall.
• 6:23
  We've had that truth from the beginning.
• 6:27
  And even as you know,
• 6:28
  as kind of a student of natural hygiene,
• 6:31
  these principles were even in the eight,
• 6:32
  seventeen, eighteen,
• 6:33
  nineteen hundreds that, you know,
• 6:36
  were bits and pieces of these concepts
• 6:38
  that we kind of all brought together in
• 6:40
  the NHA.
• 6:41
  But
• 6:42
  Again,
• 6:42
  I think I like to say often a
• 6:44
  lot of people think that the whole food
• 6:46
  plant based health movement began when
• 6:48
  Forks Over Knives came out in in two
• 6:51
  thousand eleven.
• 6:52
  But we were at this game a long
• 6:53
  time before that.
• 6:54
  And these fundamental principles really
• 6:56
  have not changed.
• 6:57
  And I'm just so proud of the heritage
• 7:01
  and the legacy that the NHA continues to
• 7:03
  hold.
• 7:05
  Wanda,
• 7:06
  you came to the party a little bit
• 7:07
  later in your life.
• 7:08
  Was there some provocation for that?
• 7:10
  Was there something that changed in your
• 7:11
  life that brought you into that fold,
• 7:14
  so to speak?
• 7:15
  There was some provocation.
• 7:16
  His name was Mark Huberman.
• 7:21
  I know him along.
• 7:21
  He's a big provocation.
• 7:22
  Yes, I get that.
• 7:23
  I grew up on a tobacco farm in
• 7:25
  the South.
• 7:27
  and knew nothing about vegetarianism,
• 7:30
  veganism,
• 7:30
  certainly nothing about whole food plant
• 7:32
  based living.
• 7:33
  And so of course,
• 7:34
  one of the first places Mark takes me
• 7:36
  is to the True North Health Center.
• 7:38
  And I spent time there.
• 7:40
  And it was an awakening.
• 7:43
  And fortunately,
• 7:44
  it just made so much sense.
• 7:47
  I had a five year old when I
• 7:49
  met Mark that was scheduled for her
• 7:51
  tonsils and adenoids stuff that I just
• 7:53
  thought all children had to go through.
• 7:56
  I learned some changes with this
• 7:58
  lifestyle.
• 7:59
  And when I took her back for her
• 8:00
  pre-op appointment,
• 8:01
  the doctor was so angry at the nurse
• 8:03
  for bringing the wrong patient records.
• 8:06
  And when he realized those were the right
• 8:08
  patient records,
• 8:09
  he was angry at me then to just
• 8:11
  go home.
• 8:11
  She didn't need surgery.
• 8:13
  And so that was plenty of revelation for
• 8:18
  me to raise my child and for me
• 8:19
  to make those healthy changes as well.
• 8:22
  Alan,
• 8:22
  you and I know that both of us
• 8:25
  have pretty much spent most of our adult
• 8:27
  lives, even most of our professional life,
• 8:30
  kind of committed and connected to the
• 8:32
  National Health Association.
• 8:34
  So let me ask you a question, too,
• 8:35
  because it's one that I ask myself, too.
• 8:38
  What has fueled your passion and
• 8:40
  commitment to this organization through
• 8:42
  all of that time?
• 8:44
  You know, keep coming back, lecturing,
• 8:45
  supporting the organization.
• 8:47
  What's that drive for you?
• 8:49
  There's a number of things.
• 8:50
  Number one,
• 8:51
  it's the place where the doctors that had
• 8:53
  the most experience using fasting and a
• 8:56
  whole plant food diet hung out.
• 8:59
  That was the place that advocated the use
• 9:02
  of medically supervised water-only
• 9:04
  fasting.
• 9:04
  Even to this day, really,
• 9:06
  the NHA has been the...
• 9:09
  the primary mover behind encouraging
• 9:12
  doctors to pursue the use of water only
• 9:15
  fasting in helping people overcome health.
• 9:18
  And they've been the longest champion of
• 9:21
  this idea of eating a whole plant food
• 9:24
  diet.
• 9:25
  And so for me,
• 9:27
  getting access to the doctors that had the
• 9:29
  experience was really a key issue.
• 9:33
  And also it gave us a platform in
• 9:36
  order to share these ideas with
• 9:38
  sympathetic people.
• 9:39
  Most of the time when we're speaking in
• 9:41
  the public,
• 9:42
  there's skepticism or frank antagonism to
• 9:46
  these concepts.
• 9:47
  They're oftentimes vehemently denied or
• 9:51
  resisted.
• 9:52
  But at the NHA,
• 9:53
  it was always like going home because
• 9:55
  everybody was comfortable and familiar
• 9:57
  with this idea that it took
• 9:59
  You know,
• 9:59
  radical changes to make radical effects.
• 10:02
  And so the idea of supporting these ideas
• 10:05
  was, I think,
• 10:07
  and I think continues to be really the
• 10:10
  main focal point of the work that we're
• 10:14
  really trying to do.
• 10:16
  Yeah,
• 10:17
  I love the fact always that it had
• 10:18
  really nothing to sell.
• 10:19
  It was just really selling people on their
• 10:21
  own autonomy,
• 10:22
  their ability to heal and be well without
• 10:25
  selling products and getting lost in a lot
• 10:28
  of agendas that many organizations get
• 10:30
  involved in.
• 10:32
  As we look at the pillars of lifestyle
• 10:35
  change in lifestyle medicine or even old
• 10:37
  hygienic care,
• 10:38
  we know about the biological factors
• 10:41
  related to food and activity and so on.
• 10:42
  But one of the things that's come out
• 10:44
  very strongly in long-lived communities is
• 10:48
  the sense of community support and
• 10:50
  connection.
• 10:50
  That ability of people to come together
• 10:54
  and find support is as much a powerful
• 10:57
  tool in the process of health and recovery
• 11:00
  as many other things.
• 11:02
  And the NHA has been kind of on
• 11:03
  the forefront of that with
• 11:06
  It's issues related to the conferences
• 11:08
  that you've done.
• 11:09
  And also now you've morphed into this idea
• 11:12
  of also altering global travel with
• 11:16
  healthy transitions to trips and things of
• 11:19
  that nature.
• 11:20
  So address that idea that early on in
• 11:22
  this dance,
• 11:23
  you guys were turned on to that sense
• 11:26
  of community as a very powerful factor.
• 11:28
  And it drove a lot of the beautiful
• 11:30
  programs.
• 11:31
  And we're going to segue into the new
• 11:33
  one that's coming out.
• 11:33
  But talk a little bit about how that
• 11:36
  mentality was still fueled way back when,
• 11:39
  when a lot of people weren't really doing
• 11:41
  that.
• 11:44
  You know,
• 11:44
  I would say one thing is that I've
• 11:48
  often said that if you lead this
• 11:50
  lifestyle,
• 11:51
  If you lead a natural hygiene,
• 11:53
  what we always call the natural hygiene
• 11:54
  lifestyle,
• 11:55
  which is now the whole plant food diet
• 11:57
  lifestyle,
• 11:58
  is it can be a very lonely operation.
• 12:01
  You don't get invited out to dinner a
• 12:03
  lot.
• 12:04
  You don't invite a lot of people over
• 12:05
  for dinner a lot.
• 12:06
  A lot of friends don't understand what
• 12:08
  you're doing.
• 12:09
  There aren't a lot of restaurants that you
• 12:11
  can go comfortably at.
• 12:13
  So one of the things about the NHA,
• 12:15
  it was always a place,
• 12:16
  certainly at the annual conference,
• 12:17
  where like-minded people could come and
• 12:20
  share the joy of that lifestyle.
• 12:23
  And my father used to say,
• 12:26
  kind of recharges your batteries.
• 12:28
  It was a great gathering,
• 12:29
  and it's still that way.
• 12:30
  It's why we still sell out at our
• 12:33
  conferences.
• 12:33
  Three hundred,
• 12:34
  three hundred and fifty people come
• 12:36
  together every year for that reason.
• 12:37
  So I think that's a big part of
• 12:38
  it.
• 12:38
  That is that sense of community.
• 12:41
  And I also know that,
• 12:44
  and I'm sure all of us that have
• 12:45
  been in this lifestyle,
• 12:46
  Lisa and Alan and Frank,
• 12:48
  you know that it's also sometimes a very
• 12:51
  lonely thing, even within families.
• 12:53
  A husband may be following this lifestyle
• 12:55
  and the wife doesn't.
• 12:56
  The kids may not.
• 12:57
  The relatives don't.
• 12:58
  It can be really tough.
• 12:59
  So again,
• 13:00
  that's that mutual support and sense of
• 13:02
  community that I think the NHA has
• 13:05
  uniquely offered for such a very long
• 13:08
  time.
• 13:09
  And now,
• 13:10
  and Wanda can talk more about the next
• 13:12
  level what we've done with travel to make
• 13:14
  this an opportunity.
• 13:15
  If you've traveled the world,
• 13:17
  like if you've traveled anywhere,
• 13:19
  even in the United States,
• 13:20
  it can be a challenge.
• 13:21
  You've got to find a Whole Foods.
• 13:22
  You've got to find a restaurant.
• 13:23
  You've got to make arrangements.
• 13:24
  You have to schlep food with you.
• 13:27
  We've done something pretty magical.
• 13:29
  Wanda has done something pretty magical
• 13:31
  about that.
• 13:32
  And Wanda, you could talk about that.
• 13:34
  Well, for about, I don't know,
• 13:36
  we started in about
• 13:39
  And it was really listening to what our
• 13:41
  members wanted.
• 13:42
  And many of the members wanted to be
• 13:44
  able to travel.
• 13:45
  They were true blue to this lifestyle.
• 13:48
  Many of them had recovered from serious
• 13:49
  health issues.
• 13:51
  And we happened to have had a travel
• 13:54
  agent at one of my conferences.
• 13:56
  And she actually was her vision.
• 13:58
  She had Lisa McCarl is the NHA life
• 14:01
  member and travel advisor.
• 14:03
  And she approached me and said,
• 14:06
  She never told anybody she was plant-based
• 14:08
  because she never wanted to do plant-based
• 14:11
  travel.
• 14:12
  And she saw how we worked with the
• 14:14
  chefs at our conferences and how wonderful
• 14:16
  the meals were for three hundred people
• 14:19
  over four days.
• 14:20
  And she said, will you try an experiment?
• 14:23
  I'll approach a cruise line and let's see
• 14:25
  how this works.
• 14:26
  And the first one was mediocre,
• 14:29
  quite frankly,
• 14:29
  and I wasn't sure I wanted to do
• 14:31
  it.
• 14:31
  And then we tried another one and it
• 14:34
  just kept getting better and better to the
• 14:36
  point that now we have cruise lines,
• 14:39
  it's become a niche and our people want
• 14:42
  it,
• 14:43
  people that aren't even part of NHA want
• 14:45
  it.
• 14:46
  And so I have about five cruise lines
• 14:48
  I'm working with and not only cruise
• 14:51
  lines,
• 14:51
  we're doing land travel and it's small
• 14:54
  groups and it is
• 14:56
  back to the lifestyle pillar of wanting
• 14:59
  connection and community.
• 15:01
  So you can travel.
• 15:02
  You're not really getting lectures.
• 15:04
  Maybe if we have a C day,
• 15:05
  a doctor will be on board and he
• 15:07
  or she can give a presentation.
• 15:10
  But it's really about living life.
• 15:13
  And it's not about always focusing on food
• 15:16
  because our lives are so much broader than
• 15:18
  food.
• 15:20
  You know,
• 15:20
  I want to add something here too,
• 15:22
  that there's been over five hundred people
• 15:25
  have now traveled with us and are
• 15:26
  scheduled to travel with us over the next
• 15:28
  two years.
• 15:30
  And the intersection for probably eighty
• 15:33
  percent of those people is True North.
• 15:35
  They've been to True North.
• 15:36
  That's why there's plenty of vegan travel
• 15:39
  opportunities out there,
• 15:40
  but there aren't vegan SOS.
• 15:43
  whole food, plant-based, SOS.
• 15:45
  That's the real niche that we have.
• 15:49
  And that intersection is True North.
• 15:50
  And that's why kind of leading us into
• 15:53
  what we're here really want to talk about,
• 15:55
  this new community membership we've
• 15:56
  developed with True North,
• 15:58
  because the alignment of True North with
• 16:01
  the NHA has been almost total
• 16:07
  from the time that it was formed,
• 16:08
  just as it was with Dr.
• 16:10
  Scott and Dr.
• 16:11
  Shelton and those places before,
• 16:12
  but never so much as it is today.
• 16:15
  And that's why I think this is such
• 16:17
  a natural extension of the relationship
• 16:22
  between the NHA.
• 16:24
  Let's segue into that because, you know,
• 16:27
  having run centers as I have for all
• 16:29
  these years and Alan and other people
• 16:32
  have,
• 16:33
  when we see these incredible results that
• 16:35
  happen in our retreats and our centers and
• 16:37
  so on one of the one of the
• 16:39
  holes often was you know how do you
• 16:43
  create and support that success at home so
• 16:46
  the idea of having a take home program
• 16:49
  or a program where people can identify and
• 16:52
  align and connect with what they've
• 16:55
  learned what they've been doing uh in away
• 16:58
  from the centers themselves
• 17:01
  was really exciting to see that you were
• 17:03
  embarking on that connection so as you
• 17:06
  merge these communities the true north
• 17:08
  community with the nha community and
• 17:11
  you're kind of filling that niche in that
• 17:13
  gap give give us a little give us
• 17:16
  a little rundown of what how you see
• 17:19
  the program operating i'm sorry i'm sorry
• 17:25
  we have a little bit of feedback
• 17:31
  Yeah,
• 17:32
  so just give me a little rundown on
• 17:34
  what and how you see the mechanics of
• 17:36
  this program, what it offers.
• 17:37
  And Lisa,
• 17:38
  you can get involved in this too,
• 17:39
  because I know you're involved in the
• 17:41
  educational initiative of this whole
• 17:43
  process.
• 17:44
  So let's talk about the program,
• 17:46
  the merging,
• 17:47
  this kind of collaboration of the two
• 17:49
  communities and what the program is about
• 17:52
  and how it's trying to organize a focus
• 17:55
  group away at home for these people that
• 17:58
  can participate.
• 18:01
  Now,
• 18:01
  one of the things that we found early
• 18:03
  on was that people at the center did
• 18:07
  great.
• 18:08
  And when they went home,
• 18:10
  some people struggled for all the reasons
• 18:12
  that we've already discussed.
• 18:14
  And that we wanted to figure out how
• 18:15
  could we provide people at home more
• 18:19
  encouragement and support.
• 18:23
  And when we started discussing this idea
• 18:26
  that
• 18:27
  the nha had developed some great skills at
• 18:30
  providing that kind of continuity and
• 18:32
  support uh we figured it was certainly
• 18:35
  natural for us to come together and try
• 18:37
  to figure out how could our patients get
• 18:40
  the support that the nha uh traditionally
• 18:43
  offered both in terms of travel in terms
• 18:45
  of ongoing support and how could we
• 18:48
  provide
• 18:49
  ongoing educational input for the NHA in
• 18:52
  terms of providing structured guidance.
• 18:55
  Because you know what happens sometimes is
• 18:57
  that support groups can be diverted from
• 19:01
  the primary attention with a lot of the
• 19:03
  peripheral noise that
• 19:05
  it inherently gets involved in any kind of
• 19:07
  social setting so we wanted to provide a
• 19:09
  little bit of support and structure and
• 19:11
  guidance but at the same time create an
• 19:13
  environment that's not lecture didactic
• 19:15
  type of environment but one which is more
• 19:18
  you know people sharing with each other
• 19:20
  and that's why we're really excited when
• 19:21
  dr akasella agreed to help participate
• 19:24
  because this happens to be an area she
• 19:26
  can walk both sides she understands all
• 19:28
  the technical and the doctor stuff but she
• 19:30
  also
• 19:31
  has actually a personality that she cares
• 19:33
  about people and stuff which is kind of
• 19:34
  novel and is willing to share that and
• 19:37
  help provide uh kind of a supportive
• 19:39
  environment where everybody can be
• 19:40
  successful uh in that regards lisa talk to
• 19:44
  me about how you see that implemented what
• 19:46
  what are the actual things you see and
• 19:49
  feel are essential to manifesting what
• 19:52
  alan is talking about
• 19:54
  Well, I think that first and foremost,
• 19:57
  it is the belief that you're not alone.
• 20:01
  Because when people come to True North or
• 20:05
  when people find their way to the National
• 20:07
  Health Association and are connected to
• 20:12
  others,
• 20:12
  either at a conference or through a stay
• 20:14
  at True North,
• 20:16
  they are feeling very empowered by the
• 20:19
  connections that they make.
• 20:20
  And even with the promise to stay in
• 20:23
  touch, life happens.
• 20:26
  And so this platform that has been created
• 20:31
  gives that opportunity for
• 20:34
  whether it's daily or weekly or only for
• 20:37
  a scheduled event,
• 20:39
  to have a way to drop in and
• 20:43
  to remember what's important.
• 20:46
  And I think another part of this that
• 20:50
  is really great is
• 20:53
  being able to also find through this
• 20:56
  platform people that might be near them so
• 21:00
  that they can have in-person experiences
• 21:04
  that are, you know,
• 21:08
  just enabling community to grow.
• 21:11
  I feel like another piece of this that's
• 21:14
  tantamount and has already been mentioned
• 21:17
  is that
• 21:19
  There may be other plant-based
• 21:21
  communities, but they're not SOS free.
• 21:24
  And I've become aware of late of this
• 21:29
  leniency, this,
• 21:31
  I call it a false belief that it's
• 21:33
  all right.
• 21:35
  It's all right to, you know,
• 21:37
  have a little sugar,
• 21:38
  have a little salt or have a little
• 21:40
  oil.
• 21:41
  And
• 21:41
  And especially for the people that come to
• 21:43
  True North, the pleasure trap is real.
• 21:47
  And I feel that it's important that
• 21:51
  there's a place that holds firm,
• 21:53
  that holds space to health comes from
• 21:57
  healthy living.
• 21:58
  I mean,
• 21:59
  I found the National Health Association in
• 22:02
  in and by joining this organization and
• 22:07
  by, you know,
• 22:09
  having three well-timed fasts,
• 22:13
  I fully recovered my health in my early
• 22:17
  thirties that I didn't have for the time
• 22:22
  leading up to that.
• 22:24
  So where most people have these challenges
• 22:27
  late in life for me to have them
• 22:29
  from birth
• 22:31
  through all of my young adulthood,
• 22:34
  I just feel like I'm a really good
• 22:36
  person to support and educate,
• 22:40
  holding firm and not believing
• 22:43
  misinformation about why a little or some
• 22:48
  is okay.
• 22:53
  I was going to say that it's just
• 22:56
  an interesting observation of mine that in
• 22:58
  the last month or two,
• 23:00
  It's almost like the dam is broken on
• 23:04
  things that there was just everybody sort
• 23:06
  of agreed that oil, ninety percent agreed,
• 23:09
  no oil and then salt should be limited.
• 23:12
  There was McDougal out there.
• 23:13
  A little bit of salt was OK.
• 23:14
  You need a little bit of salt and
• 23:16
  sugar was OK.
• 23:17
  Well, maybe a little bit of this.
• 23:18
  But now it seems like the dam is
• 23:20
  broken now.
• 23:20
  Hey, you know what?
• 23:22
  Hey, listen,
• 23:22
  as long as you're eating plants,
• 23:24
  you're OK.
• 23:25
  And it is the pleasure trap all over
• 23:27
  again.
• 23:28
  And I think it just drives home about
• 23:30
  the fact that the NHA has upheld a
• 23:32
  standard that's been the standard
• 23:34
  unbreakable principles that we've had
• 23:36
  since our founding.
• 23:37
  Nobody talked about SOS in the NHA until
• 23:41
  Alan kind of coined the term maybe twenty
• 23:43
  years ago.
• 23:44
  But there was no SOS because salt,
• 23:48
  oil and sugar weren't whole foods.
• 23:50
  They were never part of the NHA.
• 23:52
  And so, again, I agree with you, Lisa.
• 23:54
  I think that that is something that really
• 23:56
  does not just distinguishes our travel,
• 23:59
  but distinguishes our community.
• 24:01
  That's a really good thing.
• 24:02
  It's what we're trying to do here.
• 24:04
  Well,
• 24:04
  that's the voice of addiction screaming.
• 24:06
  We know that.
• 24:06
  So people want to come back and hold
• 24:08
  on to things that they found harder to
• 24:11
  give up when you want to focus on
• 24:13
  this community a certain way.
• 24:14
  But let me ask you a different question
• 24:16
  and play a different kind of devil's
• 24:18
  advocate.
• 24:18
  As you create this group and this program,
• 24:22
  you're going to have people at all stages
• 24:24
  of development entering potentially this
• 24:26
  program.
• 24:27
  So some will already be really far along
• 24:30
  on that dance.
• 24:31
  Some will be just starting.
• 24:33
  Is there a place for incrementalism within
• 24:36
  the context of this program?
• 24:37
  And how do you see that being implemented
• 24:39
  when you're trying to hold the line for
• 24:42
  really SOS free and all of that?
• 24:44
  I think there was someone just recently
• 24:48
  that came to True North and she's like,
• 24:50
  my fast has been great and I know
• 24:51
  that I can't do this.
• 24:53
  And so again,
• 24:54
  it's just like breaking it down.
• 24:56
  And so one of the things is realizing
• 25:00
  that creative solutions exist and can
• 25:03
  emerge.
• 25:04
  And like with her,
• 25:05
  what we found was she could commit to
• 25:08
  an SOS free breakfast.
• 25:11
  So there, doing that seven days a week,
• 25:15
  she's thirty three percent,
• 25:17
  thirty three point three three percent
• 25:19
  there.
• 25:20
  She's already there.
• 25:21
  And just her having that reframe,
• 25:23
  having that mindset shift that she wasn't
• 25:27
  failing.
• 25:28
  that she was thirty three percent there
• 25:30
  and that then she could go to fifty
• 25:33
  percent by having big salads with beans
• 25:38
  three days a week right and then she's
• 25:40
  at fifty percent and so again there is
• 25:43
  a way that if you can just have
• 25:45
  a platform to support and educate and so
• 25:49
  this isn't about exclusion but it's also
• 25:52
  not about
• 25:54
  saying that something's all right like
• 25:56
  let's have steps and let's have a path
• 25:59
  and also looking at other factors besides
• 26:03
  the food you know and how they tie
• 26:06
  in because a lot of people here's some
• 26:08
  there's some there's some feedback yeah
• 26:12
  yeah well that was my only concern
• 26:17
  that people weren't there yet you've
• 26:19
  you've you've really been clear on the
• 26:22
  idea that you've got a way to bring
• 26:24
  them into the fold giving them an
• 26:26
  opportunity to make those changes because
• 26:29
  if it gets too hardcore right out of
• 26:31
  the block we know it we know what
• 26:32
  the best direction is the question is you
• 26:34
  don't want to turn somebody off because
• 26:37
  they're not there yet when you want to
• 26:39
  allow them an opportunity to get there
• 26:42
  It's important to recognize there's a
• 26:43
  transition that everybody goes through,
• 26:46
  but it's also important to know what the
• 26:47
  direction is.
• 26:48
  That's why we call True North, True North.
• 26:51
  Just because something's difficult doesn't
• 26:53
  mean it's not correct.
• 26:54
  And just because somebody is not perfect
• 26:56
  doesn't mean they don't get a good result.
• 26:58
  And so the point is people need to
• 26:59
  do well enough within their own
• 27:02
  environment that they can be getting
• 27:04
  healthier faster than they're getting old
• 27:06
  and sick.
• 27:07
  So they win.
• 27:08
  It doesn't matter how long it takes them.
• 27:10
  Just because it's difficult doesn't mean
• 27:12
  it's not doable.
• 27:13
  That's right.
• 27:14
  It's also I think the way we've looked
• 27:16
  the way one and I look at the
• 27:17
  NHA and NHA travel is that we know
• 27:21
  that that sixty percent of the people that
• 27:23
  come on these trips are not SOS free.
• 27:25
  But we've set a standard.
• 27:29
  We always keep our eye on the prize
• 27:31
  and we're here to demonstrate that you can
• 27:33
  enjoy this lifestyle.
• 27:34
  You can do it.
• 27:35
  And I think my own opinion is I've
• 27:37
  not done a study to confirm it.
• 27:39
  But I think that these these seventy
• 27:44
  percent of the people that intersect with
• 27:46
  True North that come on our travel because
• 27:48
  they know this is what they want to
• 27:49
  be.
• 27:50
  This is where they want to be.
• 27:51
  So that's that's we've always set the
• 27:54
  standard out there.
• 27:55
  We've never done it by way of exclusion,
• 27:57
  though.
• 27:57
  We know everybody's you're right.
• 27:58
  Everybody's on the path.
• 28:00
  But we're here to show that you can
• 28:03
  achieve great health and you can set that
• 28:06
  standard out there.
• 28:08
  There's a difference between giving people
• 28:10
  just what they want and what they actually
• 28:12
  need.
• 28:13
  And when eventually what they want becomes
• 28:15
  what they need, they succeed.
• 28:19
  Lisa,
• 28:20
  let me ask you a question to get
• 28:21
  a little bit more pointed.
• 28:23
  Can you just give us a couple of
• 28:25
  bullet points of what actually will be
• 28:27
  offered so people have a clear sense,
• 28:29
  a little clearer sense of what the program
• 28:31
  and the initiative is about?
• 28:33
  Well, I know from
• 28:35
  the true north perspective,
• 28:37
  it's going to be some tangibles.
• 28:39
  Like one of the things is that it's
• 28:42
  just, you know,
• 28:44
  when you've been doing this a long time,
• 28:46
  you forget that when someone leaves,
• 28:49
  they might need steps around how to
• 28:52
  appropriately set up their kitchen,
• 28:55
  how to appropriately think about grocery
• 28:58
  shopping.
• 29:00
  just even the concepts of batch cooking.
• 29:03
  So they're not having the belief that this
• 29:06
  takes a lot of time.
• 29:08
  And these are some things that have come
• 29:11
  to my consciousness just recently and
• 29:15
  hearing how the patients are worried
• 29:18
  about,
• 29:20
  what they're worried about upon their
• 29:21
  return home.
• 29:22
  And so it's just normalizing and
• 29:25
  encouraging.
• 29:26
  And then also,
• 29:29
  Um,
• 29:30
  just giving bite size tips about how to
• 29:36
  manage, you know, um, Dr. Sabatino,
• 29:39
  you're the ones,
• 29:41
  your lectures trained me on how to manage
• 29:44
  a menu at a restaurant.
• 29:45
  And that's one of my favorite talks that
• 29:47
  I do is like how to go in
• 29:49
  and wield your way through a menu, right?
• 29:52
  Just the concept.
• 29:54
  that you can can read and make a
• 29:57
  delicious meal off salad and sides.
• 30:00
  That's, you know, beautiful.
• 30:04
  And, you know, so just things like this,
• 30:05
  like driving these concepts home that that
• 30:09
  you can be empowered to think outside the
• 30:12
  box and get your needs met and have
• 30:16
  successes and wins like Atomic Habits
• 30:19
  talks about and continue to build
• 30:23
  you know,
• 30:24
  your ownership of a new lifestyle that's
• 30:27
  fully health promoting.
• 30:29
  The other thing that I think what I'm
• 30:31
  excited about,
• 30:32
  and I think True North is excited about
• 30:34
  as well,
• 30:35
  is that
• 30:35
  You know,
• 30:35
  they have an extraordinary array of
• 30:37
  doctors that lecture weekly,
• 30:39
  that put all this content out there.
• 30:42
  And we're really excited to share that
• 30:44
  with our members.
• 30:44
  Let them understand, let them hear from,
• 30:46
  you know,
• 30:47
  some of these incredibly charismatic,
• 30:49
  bright, thoughtful people.
• 30:50
  And that we'll have access to those,
• 30:52
  our members of the community,
• 30:54
  of the NHA community will have access to
• 30:56
  what people get when they're at True
• 30:57
  North.
• 30:58
  They'll be able to get it all through
• 31:00
  the membership,
• 31:00
  through their membership in the NHA.
• 31:01
  They'll be able to get that in addition
• 31:04
  to the podcast that Frank does and all
• 31:07
  the other kind of resources in the NHA.
• 31:09
  And of course, Health Science Magazine,
• 31:11
  that people get this advertising free
• 31:14
  publication that all the three North
• 31:15
  people will get to have the benefit of.
• 31:19
  Well,
• 31:21
  I really like the idea that the program
• 31:25
  was set up for the docs to give
• 31:26
  short little presentations with Q&A and a
• 31:29
  lot of feedback.
• 31:30
  And that's always a cool thing,
• 31:32
  because a lot of times you get docs
• 31:34
  that are just talking heads,
• 31:36
  and there's people outside just listening.
• 31:37
  But in this case,
• 31:38
  you can present some material,
• 31:40
  really have it interactive,
• 31:42
  and really address the concerns that
• 31:44
  people have in real time.
• 31:46
  to what you're actually teaching and
• 31:49
  talking about.
• 31:49
  So the mechanics of this are we've created
• 31:51
  this new partnership with the True North
• 31:53
  Health Foundation.
• 31:55
  For fifteen dollars a month,
• 31:57
  you get access to the True North resources
• 32:00
  as well as the podcast that you and
• 32:03
  other colleagues are going to be doing.
• 32:05
  Of course,
• 32:05
  you get Health Science Magazine.
• 32:07
  People who do that as a new membership
• 32:09
  tier in the NHA for fifteen dollars a
• 32:11
  month or one hundred and fifty dollars a
• 32:13
  year
• 32:14
  They get two months free, essentially.
• 32:17
  And we share that revenue with the True
• 32:19
  North Foundation.
• 32:19
  So it's kind of a win-win for both
• 32:21
  of us.
• 32:22
  And it's something really exciting.
• 32:24
  As I mentioned earlier,
• 32:26
  the alignment between the NHA and True
• 32:29
  North is almost indistinguishable.
• 32:32
  And it is the same health education.
• 32:34
  It's the same health program.
• 32:35
  We've uniquely championed it for probably
• 32:38
  twice the life of True North.
• 32:40
  True North has been around a long time.
• 32:42
  This is really pretty exciting.
• 32:44
  People can go to healthscience.org,
• 32:46
  click on our membership,
• 32:49
  join the community for fifteen dollars a
• 32:51
  month or one hundred fifty dollars a year.
• 32:53
  Or they can call us,
• 32:54
  they can email us and we can get
• 32:56
  more information on.
• 32:58
  I want to jump in, if I could,
• 32:59
  to add to what Dr. Apatow was saying.
• 33:02
  This won't be a chance for people to
• 33:05
  interact.
• 33:05
  It won't be the doctors talking.
• 33:09
  We're going to have the Zoom that
• 33:12
  everybody's comfortable with,
• 33:13
  and somebody could be monitoring it.
• 33:16
  And so we're going to be answering
• 33:17
  questions.
• 33:18
  It really is the community,
• 33:21
  not a lecture series.
• 33:23
  That's important, I think, Wanda,
• 33:25
  because I found that one of the real
• 33:27
  benefits of True North is people's
• 33:28
  interaction with each other.
• 33:30
  But this dramatically broadens that
• 33:33
  because we have tremendous resources
• 33:35
  within our patient population,
• 33:37
  people with tremendous skills, experience,
• 33:39
  and that have actually lived in the real
• 33:41
  world too,
• 33:42
  not just those of us that live at
• 33:43
  True North and it's relatively easy.
• 33:45
  And I think their capacity to share with
• 33:47
  each other their experiences is going to
• 33:50
  be extremely valuable.
• 33:52
  Agree.
• 33:54
  So as we as we kind of wrap
• 33:56
  this up,
• 33:56
  is there any final words that any of
• 33:58
  you would like to share with the audience
• 33:59
  out here?
• 34:01
  Again,
• 34:01
  kind of just what I said a minute
• 34:02
  ago,
• 34:02
  this has just been a long time coming.
• 34:05
  I'm really excited.
• 34:06
  It's a natural fit.
• 34:09
  I wish it had happened ten years ago,
• 34:10
  but we're here now.
• 34:12
  And I think the sky is the limit
• 34:14
  in terms of the education
• 34:16
  that the NHA is going to be able
• 34:18
  to offer and that TrueNorth patients will
• 34:20
  be able to get through the NHA.
• 34:21
  I think it's just a perfect marriage and
• 34:24
  I'm really excited about it.
• 34:26
  I think my last comment is just with
• 34:31
  podcasts that Dr.
• 34:32
  Goldhammer has done in the last couple of
• 34:36
  years and people finding true north
• 34:40
  through that avenue,
• 34:42
  getting this introduction to the NHA.
• 34:45
  Because one of the things that I
• 34:47
  appreciate is that the history of the NHA
• 34:50
  and
• 34:52
  and what it avails with its membership.
• 34:57
  And I just feel, you know,
• 35:00
  that it's a tremendous opportunity for
• 35:03
  people to understand that a whole plant
• 35:06
  foods,
• 35:07
  SOS-free lifestyle truly did exist long
• 35:11
  before the China study was published or
• 35:14
  Forks Over Knives came out.
• 35:16
  And likewise, I'd like to add,
• 35:18
  I'm really proud of our travel and some
• 35:20
  of the other things I'd love to see
• 35:23
  people start more people register for the
• 35:25
  conference before it's sold out.
• 35:27
  But I love the idea for fifteen dollars
• 35:29
  a month.
• 35:30
  You can still have community.
• 35:31
  We certainly recognize not everybody's
• 35:33
  going to have the opportunity to travel.
• 35:36
  That's a small segment in reality of what
• 35:38
  we're doing.
• 35:39
  So to be able to expand and give
• 35:41
  you the quarterly hard copy magazine that
• 35:44
  comes to your house,
• 35:46
  And the newsletter that you'll get and the
• 35:49
  podcast, the resources,
• 35:52
  the NHA website itself is a virtual
• 35:54
  library that if you started today,
• 35:57
  I don't care if you're twenty or fifty,
• 35:59
  you could never read all of it.
• 36:01
  It's extensive.
• 36:03
  And then to have this community activity
• 36:05
  with so much variable information at
• 36:09
  fifteen dollars a month.
• 36:10
  I don't know why you wouldn't try it
• 36:12
  if you're looking for the least bit of
• 36:14
  help in this lifestyle.
• 36:18
  Anybody else?
• 36:20
  You know, I was just going to say,
• 36:21
  we were talking about our relationship.
• 36:24
  I think Alan has not missed an NHA
• 36:26
  conference other than last year for his
• 36:28
  wife's special birthday.
• 36:29
  She hauled him off to the North Pole
• 36:31
  or something.
• 36:33
  And same thing with you, Frank.
• 36:34
  I mean,
• 36:34
  I don't think you've missed an NHA
• 36:36
  conference in thirty, forty years.
• 36:39
  That's how connected we are.
• 36:41
  And, you know,
• 36:42
  Wanda's been to True North several times.
• 36:44
  Alan and I go back so far.
• 36:45
  It's ridiculous.
• 36:47
  But it's just a natural fit.
• 36:49
  And I'm really excited for this whole new
• 36:52
  era of growth for both the NHA and
• 36:55
  for all the members of the NHA to
• 36:57
  learn about the world-class care that True
• 36:59
  North offers.
• 37:00
  Because I don't care how you may eat
• 37:03
  the best SOS-free diet in the world and
• 37:06
  exercise and rest and all that.
• 37:08
  We all are going to need True North
• 37:10
  at one time or another.
• 37:11
  And the more you know about it,
• 37:12
  the more comfortable you are,
• 37:14
  but that's going to be another tool and
• 37:16
  member benefit of the NHA to have access
• 37:19
  to become that familiar with that,
• 37:21
  that availability of True North.
• 37:23
  So that's, that's,
• 37:24
  I'm really excited for that too.
• 37:26
  Well,
• 37:26
  I can't thank my guests enough for being
• 37:28
  with us today.
• 37:29
  And I urge you all to take advantage
• 37:31
  of this incredible community initiative
• 37:34
  We know how important it is to have
• 37:36
  that ongoing support and connection at
• 37:38
  home,
• 37:39
  even after you've had remarkable results
• 37:41
  in these wonderful centers.
• 37:43
  And now there is that available to you.
• 37:45
  Don't miss this incredible,
• 37:47
  incredible opportunity.
• 37:48
  And we thank you all for being part
• 37:50
  of this very healthy community.
• 37:52
  And I look forward to seeing you on
• 37:54
  the next episode of the NHA podcast.
• 37:57
  Thank you so much.
• 38:00
  Okay, good job, everyone.
• 38:02
  Thank you guys.
• 38:03
  We'll try to get the, uh,
• 38:05
  I think the echo thing we'll try to
• 38:07
  get out of there, but, um,
• 38:08
  hopefully we can edit that.
• 38:10
  So I assume you're going to want to
• 38:13
  work a call to action into the whole
• 38:14
  thing.
• 38:15
  Yeah, we'll have it in the,
• 38:16
  in the notes.
• 38:18
  If you, um,
• 38:22
  Unless you want to modify what you just
• 38:24
  said there, Frank, at the end,
• 38:26
  and just include, go to healthscience.org,
• 38:31
  and I'll mark where you did it,
• 38:32
  but reinforce it.
• 38:34
  Just at healthscience.org?
• 38:35
  Yeah.
• 38:35
  Yeah, and go on the membership link,
• 38:39
  and you can join the community.
• 38:41
  Okay.
• 38:42
  So you want me to take it from
• 38:42
  there?
• 38:43
  Yeah.
• 38:44
  Okay.
• 38:45
  I want to really thank you all for
• 38:46
  joining us today,
• 38:47
  and I urge you to take advantage of
• 38:49
  this incredible community initiative
• 38:52
  We urge you to go to healthscience.org and
• 38:54
  really join this community.
• 38:56
  It'll be the best thing you've ever done
• 38:58
  to really give you that home support and
• 38:59
  connection and a community sense that will
• 39:02
  help you be much more successful as you
• 39:04
  take this incredible information home.
• 39:07
  And I want to thank you for being
• 39:08
  with us.
• 39:08
  And I look forward to being with you
• 39:10
  on the next episode of the NHA podcast.
• 39:12
  Thank you so much.
• 39:15
  Perfect.
• 39:16
  Thank you.
• 39:18
  Hey, Frank,
• 39:18
  do you have just a second to give
• 39:19
  me a call?
• 39:21
  yeah absolutely and alan nine o'clock let
• 39:24
  me call you by phone yeah yeah tonight
• 39:27
  right yeah give me a call at extension
• 39:30
  one one four two okay five eight six
• 39:34
  five five five five extension one one four
• 39:36
  two okay
• 39:39
  Hey guys, hold on one second.
• 39:41
  Stay with the,
• 39:43
  don't leave the studio until the recording
• 39:48
  finishes uploading.
• 39:50
  Hold on a second.
• 39:50
  Let me just end this.