Latest / The Psychic Explorer / Choosing Your Words as a Developing Medium — with Celebrant Judy Wayman 🔮

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Choosing Your Words as a Developing Medium — with Celebrant Judy Wayman 🔮 · The Psychic Explorer

0:09
Hello, you lovely lot. How the devil are you?
0:12
Oh my goodness me. Have I got a lovely episode
0:15
for you today? You are in for a treat. Judy Wayman,
0:22
Judy Wayman, Judy Wayman. Oh, what can I say
0:23
about Judy? Well, I suppose I should before I
0:26
introduce Judy, I should restart talking about
0:29
what this episode is about. Today's episode,
0:31
it's all about words. I was changing the beds
0:36
one day and I thought, What on earth can I talk
0:39
about next on this podcast? What topic speaks
0:43
to me and who else can I get on who will be able
0:46
to talk about this said topic that would be speaking
0:50
to me and therefore hopefully speaking to you
0:52
guys too? The previous evening to this thought
0:56
I was sat in circle and we were bringing people
1:00
through and we were practicing and we were developing
1:02
as we do in the circle. and I was reminded of
1:06
the power of words. I was sat with one of my
1:12
friends in the circle and I won't go through
1:14
the exact thing of what the situation was because
1:17
that is private but to say that this person was
1:22
having a health issue and I knew this person
1:24
was having a health issue and I made one of the
1:28
biggest mistakes I have made in mediumship so
1:32
far. Whether it was misinterpretation or whatever
1:35
it is, I blurted out the word cancer. And the
1:40
look on this person's face was sort of like,
1:44
dear caught in headlights, dear God, what have
1:46
you just said? And in that moment, I thought,
1:49
why did I just say that? And I said it because
1:52
it was a sense of there was something within
1:56
this person growing. And in a sense, there was.
2:02
Again, I'm not going to go into details. It was
2:04
not cancer. It was not cancer. It was nothing
2:06
like that. But my interpretation of this thing
2:09
within her, my interpretation was that and I
2:12
thought, shit, like words seriously count when
2:16
you're doing this. And I know Nicola has said
2:18
this and she has told me this time and time again,
2:22
that your words matter. The way you say things
2:24
and how you say things is so important. But it
2:27
wasn't until that moment that I thought, wow
2:30
okay I really have the power here to make someone
2:34
or crush someone and I do not want to be that
2:37
person to crush someone that is not what I'm
2:39
here for and I got thinking about the concept
2:42
of words and how we use words in mediumship the
2:46
different nuances of language however it is or
2:49
whatever that looks like however that sounds
2:51
like it all goes to building the message all
2:56
goes to be able to convey to your sitter Who
3:00
you have, who you feel you have connecting with
3:03
you and channeling through you. So I knew I wanted
3:05
to do an episode on words. And then I got thinking,
3:10
well, who in us can talk about words? Who do
3:12
I know who has the power to master words and
3:16
to be able to manipulate them and use them in
3:20
a way which brings love and healing? And I thought,
3:24
I know exactly who, Judy Wayman. For those of
3:28
you not to know Judy Wayman is a celebrant here
3:31
in Norfolk and my god, she is phenomenal. She
3:35
is just amazing Judy was a celebrant for my mom's
3:41
funeral and you know, we've been in touch a couple
3:43
of times Since mom's funeral, but she brought
3:47
mom to light or back to life through her words
3:53
She asked me, my sister, for stories. She asked
3:56
for photos. She asked for so much information
4:00
so that she could build her story. And if I'm
4:02
honest, I really wasn't sure if I wanted a funeral
4:07
for Mum because when that happened, I'd always
4:10
been in the mindset of, I don't want someone
4:13
who doesn't know my loved one, who doesn't know
4:16
my person to get up on a pedestal and start talking.
4:20
about them as if they did to me that sounded
4:23
really fake and it sounded really insincere or
4:26
at least it felt insincere but just one meeting
4:30
with judy and i knew that she was the right person
4:32
she's brilliant i am not going to say anymore
4:36
instead i will let judy's words speak for themselves
4:41
so Ah, this is just so beautiful. She is such
4:45
a wordsmith and she is just wonderful. I love
4:48
her. Enjoy. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy, guys. In 2017,
5:09
retired nurse and university lecturer Judy Wayman
5:11
suffered a life -changing neck injury which caused
5:14
her to re -evaluate her life and career. A year
5:17
later, Judy re -trained as a celebrant and founded
5:20
her business Moonstone Ceremonies. She plays
5:23
a major part in leading celebrations which mark
5:26
significant stages in people's lives. Whether
5:29
it's naming ceremonies, weddings, vow renewals
5:32
or funerals, Judy provides the words which celebrate
5:35
and connect to her clients. She has always had
5:38
a spiritual side and although she says that she
5:40
was not religious, it was whilst receiving Reiki
5:43
in 2017 that she describes having her first shamanic
5:47
journey to the upper world. Since then, she has
5:50
followed Sandra Ingerman's teachings and says,
5:53
I believe in the old ways. I am not pagan as
5:56
such, not a priestess, not a shaman. I'm a healer
5:59
and an empath. I tell people stories, celebrate
6:03
life and help people when they are raw and at
6:05
their most vulnerable by being present, compassionate
6:08
and open. Judy, what a wonderful passage you
6:12
gave me to introduce you. Thank you so much and
6:14
welcome to my podcast, The Psyche Explorer. How
6:17
are you doing? Oh, great. Thank you, Matt. It's
6:21
just lovely to be talking about, well, celebrancy
6:26
and how my spirituality and some of my experiences
6:30
along the way. It's great to be talking about
6:33
that. Thank you. Well, it's lovely to see you
6:35
again. The last time I saw you, it was under
6:39
not so happy circumstances, but you did such
6:42
a beautiful and amazing job. And when I thought
6:44
of this episode, I thought, I know who I want,
6:48
so I'm just grateful you said yes. Thank you
6:50
so much. Thank you. As someone who is stepping
6:54
into this world of psychic and mediumship reading
6:56
into myself, I feel that words are so incredibly
6:59
important. They have such an impact on the sitter.
7:03
And I wanted you on because you work with words
7:07
every day, words which celebrate, words which
7:11
have impact. I mean, again, I know how good you
7:14
are from a personal experience. And I think that
7:17
that final passage that you gave me says it all.
7:22
Words themselves are vital if we want to get
7:24
our meaning and our message across in a loving
7:27
and compassionate way. But that is not a skill
7:30
that everyone has. Many people find it unnatural
7:33
or uneasy. So I want to start from the beginning,
7:36
if that's OK, Judy. Yeah. And I know we touched
7:38
on it in the introduction, but what drew you
7:40
to this path? Oh gosh. Now celebrancy for me
7:48
is the last thing we can do for anyone. It's
7:54
something that's got to be the best thing that
7:57
we can do. And I think my background in nursing,
8:02
my time sitting with people as they died, for
8:10
me was a massive privilege to be able to be present
8:16
with them and actually many times the silence
8:25
would be filled with their presence and it's
8:32
very difficult to describe but again that privilege
8:36
of being with them and knowing that they had
8:40
a good, gentle death. So I was able to bring
8:45
that element into celebrancy. But also many years
8:52
as a university lecturer, teaching nurses, teaching
8:57
paramedics and doctors, medical students and
9:02
pharmacists. I was able to learn how to use space,
9:11
how to be present, how to draw people in to the
9:17
words, to the meaning of the words I was using.
9:21
So when I had that year, practically flattened
9:27
my back, feeling quite helpless, it was time
9:32
to think, how can I now with all of the physical
9:38
restrictions that I have, how can I now use those
9:43
skills with the best of intentions? And actually,
9:48
intention is a huge thing in celebrancy. That
9:55
intention to do our best, not just for the deceased,
10:00
the departed, but for everybody present there.
10:06
And that's why I do this. You mentioned there
10:13
about your experience. I presume that you are
10:16
a palliative care nurse? No, I worked with people
10:21
of all ages. Before I left, I worked in intensive
10:27
care. I worked with patients in intensive care
10:31
who we knew were not going to survive. and people
10:37
who most generously donated their organs. I worked
10:42
with elderly people and yes, I worked with people
10:47
who were on an end of life pathway. Such a poignant
10:51
moment in someone's life and for someone in my
10:55
situation, just an everyday lay person, that
10:58
sounds... absolutely alien and tragic, but I
11:03
guess to you it must, as you said, it's an honour,
11:06
it's a privilege to be there at this one's end
11:08
of life and to bring them comfort if that's possible,
11:12
if you can. Yeah, and actually I'm working with
11:18
a young gentleman at the moment who is on an
11:23
end -of -life care pathway. and we're working
11:27
together so that his wishes, his story, is going
11:32
to be told from his perspective. Wonderful. So
11:35
you know him already. You're getting to know
11:36
him already. Yeah, that's awesome. It's actually
11:42
quite mind blowing. I've not had the privilege
11:49
of doing that before. I met him with his father
11:54
and we actually had the most glorious time together.
11:59
The laughter as well as the poignant and sad
12:04
moments. Again, it reaffirmed that's why I do
12:09
what I do. Yeah, you're on the right path, yeah.
12:15
This question I've got here and I feel that you
12:19
have sort of half answered it already, but I'll
12:21
ask it anyway and I'll let you lead the way.
12:24
Was there a moment when you've realized the power
12:27
of words to transform, again that word, poignant
12:30
moment in someone's life into something sacred
12:32
or meaningful? I would imagine that came actually
12:36
before your decision to do celebrancy. Yes, and
12:41
I thought hard about that question. And it goes
12:46
back to when I was a student nurse, probably
12:49
around 1980. I had a placement in the theatres,
12:54
operating theatres, and we had a South African
12:58
theatre sister, Christian, very strong -minded.
13:04
And she was railing against one of the consultants
13:09
who could be quite cutting. She said to me, Words
13:15
are like fire, they destroy. Now I think that's
13:20
from the Bible. But I thought about that for
13:25
a long time and I saw the other side of it. That
13:30
words can be beautiful, they can be uplifting,
13:36
they can be transformative. And that really set
13:43
me on that path about words. And English literature
13:49
has been very important to me since my childhood.
13:53
I've always loved reading. I love words. I bought
13:59
a thesaurus, Roger's Thesaurus, when I was about
14:03
13 or 14. And I still enjoy diving into the sections
14:08
of it. So I'm... very, very careful in my choice
14:13
of words when I write a tribute. But what I will
14:18
say is those words are not always mine. Sometimes,
14:24
I'll tell you how I work. So when I've spoken
14:30
to a family, listened to a family telling me
14:33
their loved one's story, and I might have one
14:36
person in the room and I might have half a dozen.
14:39
telling me the story. And I will always ask for
14:44
a photograph. Can I see a photo? I didn't always
14:49
used to do that, but I do now. And I'll often
14:55
say, if they came into the room now, what would
14:59
they say to us? How would they react? And so
15:03
when I've got all of the information and a picture
15:06
in my head, I'll go away the next day. sit in
15:10
the corner of my favourite cafe with my laptop
15:13
on its stand and my headphones in and I will
15:18
centre myself and I will just listen. And when
15:23
I feel that I have that voice in my head then
15:27
I'll start typing. Sometimes it doesn't come
15:32
straight away and sometimes I either get that
15:36
feeling or hear that voice that says No. That's
15:41
wrong. That word's wrong. You haven't quite got
15:44
it. So I'll go through that process again and
15:47
I'll just let them tell their story through me.
15:50
That's not something I say to very many people.
15:54
It sounds to me that you've really leaned into
15:56
your connection. Yes. Very much so. You've got
15:59
it, Matt. 100%. And I know that you said you
16:04
don't always choose the words, but... these situations
16:08
that you put yourself into, whether they be a
16:11
celebration of love and marriage or a celebration
16:14
of someone's life, there's so much emotion involved
16:18
in that. How do you know which words to choose?
16:22
How do you know what is appropriate? I think
16:25
that comes from intuiting. And when I've written
16:30
something down and I read back that paragraph,
16:33
If I don't believe a word fits that person then
16:37
I won't use it. I will just reflect quietly until
16:41
I know I've got the right word. And just to say
16:46
I've learnt to be my authentic self and so I
16:50
now only take end -of -life ceremonies. Do you?
16:54
I've stopped doing weddings unless I have a connection
16:59
with that person. Same with vow renewals. I recently
17:04
was asked to do a vow renewal because I took
17:08
the lady's mother's funeral. And they felt that
17:14
I was part of their story, part of their journey.
17:17
And that was again, I was absolutely humbled
17:21
by that. So I sometimes get blown away by people's
17:27
stories. And so I have to work hard at it. Yeah.
17:34
So much of what you're saying is resonating with
17:36
me because although I'm, you know, I'm still
17:39
early in my development in all this, when I do
17:43
readings, I notice that I am sitting, I'm trying
17:47
to connect and I'm saying what I'm saying and
17:50
suddenly I say a word and I'm thinking, no, that's
17:53
not right, that is not right and I just know
17:55
it and I say... I almost, the way that I see
17:58
it, Julia, I almost see these words falling out
18:00
of my mouth. And when there's a word that's not
18:02
right, I almost want to like lasso it with a
18:05
rope and sort of put it back in again and say,
18:08
no, that's not quite right. Let me just sit with
18:10
that a bit, a bit more and just. Yes. Yeah. Get
18:13
it out properly. Yeah. Yeah. That's really it.
18:19
Sometimes, if I'm taking a service and I feel
18:25
the atmosphere is flat or sometimes the room
18:29
feels cool, I go off script a bit and I intuitively
18:34
will say something different or change the manner
18:40
of my speaking and then I'll find that everything
18:43
warms up again and people are with me. And it's
18:48
learning. I have done, what, 700 funerals, celebrations
18:53
of life now since 2019. And just being able to
18:58
feel that it's not quite right in the moment,
19:05
as you're saying, you know, that that's not quite
19:08
right. That's not. It's yeah. So that's what
19:13
I do. You were saying a moment ago about stories.
19:17
And I want to know, do you consider yourself
19:21
a storyteller? Oh yes, absolutely. My celebrant
19:28
superpower, if you like to call it that, is storytelling.
19:32
And researching that story, I'm currently doing
19:36
some research on the lady where the client, her
19:39
distant relative knew nothing about her. So finding
19:44
people in her life, and getting him to find people
19:49
from her childhood. I've got about eight or nine
19:53
desperate stories about her and then weaving
19:57
them together. I love that word weaving. To be
20:02
her voice, to connect to all of those people
20:07
who will be there, who knew a little bit about
20:09
her life. That to me is wonderful. It's being
20:14
part of that journey, isn't it? It's being part
20:16
of someone's story. Not only are you able to
20:20
talk about that, but you're also able to participate
20:23
in it as well. Something that my circle leader
20:26
says to us, when we are connecting and when we
20:32
are giving readings, she says, make it into a
20:35
story because it makes it so much more tangible.
20:38
If you're able to interpret these images, these
20:41
sounds, these feelings that you have, into something
20:44
which is more tangible, then it means so much
20:47
more to the sitter. It's so much more for them.
20:52
Yes, you're absolutely right. And I don't tell
20:57
a story in a linear way. I try and theme the
21:02
stories. I now try and bring out something that
21:06
nobody really knows about that person or is so
21:11
special. that it has made an impact on either
21:15
their or other people's lives. And just using
21:19
those words, just to bring everybody into that
21:24
space and hold that space. Yeah. It's wonderful.
21:28
I think holding as well, something you said there
21:29
about the holding, that's really important. Again,
21:32
this is why I wanted you on because there's so
21:34
many similarities in what you do and what mediums
21:37
do in those sittings because you need to hold
21:40
the sitting, you need to hold the reading and
21:43
be aware of when they might be drifting off if
21:46
you're not catching their attention. Yeah, fascinating.
21:51
And talking about mediumship, in a way, both
21:54
of us speak to the unseen. I try and connect
21:57
with spirit. you to the memory, the legacy and
22:01
the emotion. How do you prepare yourself to be
22:06
a channel for something larger when you speak?
22:10
I have a routine. So when I go to the venue,
22:19
usually a crematorium or a burial hall. More
22:26
often now a hotel or a field or a village hall.
22:31
I sit quietly for a while, then I go through
22:35
everything that I've written. I make sure that
22:38
all of the music is ready, that everybody knows
22:41
what's happening. And I just still myself. And
22:47
I have a breathing routine. And then I know that
22:51
I am ready. for not just to tell that person's
22:56
story, but to show gratitude for them, to reflect
23:01
their values, to talk about their legacy. And
23:07
I think when I am centered in that, then I can
23:11
go forward. And I think in a way that's the same
23:15
that you do. Again, as you're speaking, there
23:19
are lots of things going on at the moment and
23:21
I'm feeling particularly disconnected at the
23:24
moment. And as you're saying these things, I'm
23:27
thinking, yeah, that's what I need to do more
23:29
of. I need to ground myself. I need to center
23:32
myself more before I step into this work rather
23:36
than just coming from work, have dinner and get
23:40
straight to it. There needs to be a process.
23:43
Yes, very much so. Yeah. I just want to share
23:48
something with listeners. You were the celebrant
23:51
of my mum's funeral and you did it beautifully.
23:54
Thank you. And I remember when you came out to
23:56
see me and my sister. You didn't initially say
24:00
anything about anything shamanic or spiritual,
24:04
but I think my sister said to you that mum was
24:06
into her spiritualism, reincarnation and life
24:10
after death and all that sort of thing. and suddenly
24:12
from your handbag you've produced this little
24:14
bag of what you call grease stones and at that
24:19
moment I was like what is going on like I was
24:23
in my world back then I was like this is completely
24:26
alien I don't know what is going on here would
24:30
you if you wouldn't mind would you just share
24:33
that why you have that on what does that mean
24:36
to you why do you do that I probably have couple
24:41
of hundred crystals upstairs in my bedroom and
24:46
I always carry a grief bag with me and in that
24:50
I don't always have the same crystals but always
24:54
a rose quartz which is protective to the heart.
24:58
I will often have an amethyst which is very much
25:04
about the crown chakra I'll sometimes have a
25:08
carnelian which is red which is very much grounding
25:12
and I'll always have tourmaline or obsidian and
25:17
they are protective. I carry them with me but
25:21
I now carry a spare and if I am with someone
25:28
whose grief is overwhelming or perhaps there's
25:34
some block to their grief, and I'll maybe see
25:37
a crystal, they'll maybe talk about their partner,
25:40
loved one, had crystals, then I'll give them
25:44
a grief bag. And it serves many, many purposes,
25:49
but in one respect, I carry my own, because it
25:53
allows me to be present without absorbing the
25:57
difficult stuff. But I'm going to tell you a
26:01
little story, if I may. I saw a gentleman, his
26:09
wife, who was only in her late 40s, had died.
26:13
She had cancer. She went to a spiritualist church.
26:21
She had her own crystals. She was beautiful inside
26:26
and out. and I gave him a grief bag, I put it
26:32
on his seat at the funeral and it was the most
26:36
beautiful funeral and I really felt her presence.
26:41
We went out afterwards and I was talking to everybody
26:45
and as usual I said my goodbyes. I said my goodbye
26:49
to him, we actually hugged and from somewhere
26:53
came the words, I love you. That wasn't me telling
26:58
him. That was her telling him. And I will say,
27:05
it knocked me sideways. He took it in his stride.
27:10
You told him this? I actually said those words
27:14
to him. I love you. And he looked at me nodded
27:20
and smiled. And I think my face must have been...
27:26
What have I just said? What have I just said?
27:31
What does he think of me? But he knew. He knew
27:38
that was from her. But I think that connection
27:43
and the crystals and actually her niece who spoke
27:50
at the funeral, she had some crystals. And I'd
27:55
got her a grief bag too. And we looked at the
28:00
crystals and we both had the same crystals. So
28:04
we all work in different ways. Sometimes with
28:09
the most amazing outcomes. Well, what do you
28:19
think? Isn't Judy brilliant? Absolutely lovely
28:23
and so genuine in everything that she says. What
28:27
I love is that I tend to blurt everything out
28:30
as it comes and luckily I can edit as I go on
28:33
this podcast. Judy though, oh, she thinks about
28:37
every single word. And if there is a lesson for
28:40
any medium or psychic out there, it is that the
28:43
words you speak have power to use your words
28:46
with kindness and to use your words with thought,
28:49
love and intelligence. And on that note, I will
28:53
use my words to shamelessly self -promote myself.
28:57
Remember guys, you can find me at the .psychicit
29:01
.explorer at Facebook, threads and on Instagram.
29:05
Love to hear from you. I'd love to hear your
29:07
thoughts and your feedback on this podcast. Give
29:11
me a rating, like, follow, subscribe, all those
29:13
shenanigans. But enough of that, let's get back
29:16
to the wonderful Judy Wayman. Judy, how has your
29:27
shamanic or spiritual beliefs influenced the
29:30
way that you use words in your work? I don't
29:35
know how much you know about shamanism, but shamanism
29:41
actually comes from Mongolia. and a shaman is
29:46
asked a question by a villager and that shaman
29:49
will journey on their behalf. The villager may
29:54
not get a straight answer but there will be an
29:59
answer or something will come of them that guides
30:05
the person to what they need to do. Shamanism
30:09
has spread across the world and did so many,
30:14
many centuries ago. I have a power animal who
30:19
is wolf. I also have a shamanic guide. And sometimes
30:24
when I have something difficult, something where
30:29
I'm not getting the answer, I will journey and
30:35
ask the ancients, ask the spirits, ask the guides.
30:39
And occasionally, I can think of a couple of
30:42
occasions where I've had, oh gosh, such difficult
30:48
situations. I have journeyed and asked for guidance
30:53
and for help. And so that helps me. But also
31:00
knowing that some of the ancestors may have been
31:08
reincarnated or maybe they're waiting for their
31:12
loved one, it actually puts maybe a bit of pressure
31:16
that I really do need to take this seriously
31:23
and get it right. I don't know if that answers
31:27
your question Matt. It's interesting because
31:30
what you're saying there is that I don't want
31:36
to reuse the word pressure but there's this responsibility,
31:39
there you go, there's the word, there's responsibility
31:41
to get it right. There's no awareness that you
31:45
need to, especially if you are doing this just
31:47
for, you know, if you're choosing to do this
31:50
solely for funerals or celebration of life ceremonies,
31:55
is it so important to get that right? When you're
31:59
using the word journeys here and you're talking
32:01
to a shamanic novice here. What do you mean by
32:07
journey? Because in my mind, I'm thinking you're
32:08
taking LSD or magic mushrooms or something, you're
32:11
in some sort of sweat lodge. What is this journey?
32:18
There is a way of preparing, almost going into
32:26
a trance, say. I'll often use some drumming music.
32:32
there's lots on YouTube. I drum when I'm awake
32:36
or I have drum to help other people journey.
32:39
So if you get to a certain beat at a certain
32:44
rhythm then it takes your brain to that point
32:50
where you are in a trance and you just in that
32:56
trance ask your questions. Yes there are some
32:59
people that use LSD or go to sweat lodges or
33:02
whatever but I'm not that extreme. A journey
33:08
can last 20 minutes or an hour. I have been known
33:12
to fall asleep but there's a drum rhythm that
33:15
starts it and a drum rhythm that brings you out
33:18
of it so that it's all perfectly safe. I wouldn't
33:24
imagine that there's that many sweat lodges in
33:26
Norfolk. I bet there are a few actually, I bet
33:32
there are a few, guarantee it. Okay, let's go
33:38
back to the words then. So do you think that
33:41
part of the healing comes from the words themselves
33:44
or is it the act of them being witnessed and
33:49
honored? It's both. I'll talk about the second
33:54
part first maybe. The words have been witnessed
33:59
and honoured by people who truly loved, liked,
34:04
respected the person whose life we are honouring.
34:07
Now that could be one, two people. It could be,
34:12
as in a service I'm about to do, it's going to
34:15
be over 300. They choose to be there as witnesses
34:21
to honour the person. And whether I have one
34:26
person there plus me and maybe the funeral director
34:30
or 300, it is that same responsibility, that
34:36
same need to have the words that fit that person,
34:42
their personality, their beliefs or not, their
34:47
spirituality or not. The things that they did
34:51
in life that meant something to them, whether
34:55
that's talking about their amazing apple pies
34:59
or the quilts that they made or the fact that
35:05
they were a CEO of a massive international corporation.
35:10
I often say we may not have lived remarkable
35:16
lives or done remarkable things, but everybody
35:21
is remarkable in their own way. And that I always
35:26
centre myself on when I find out people's stories.
35:31
And sometimes if that tale hasn't been told,
35:35
I think they get frustrated from the other side.
35:39
I think there are things not only do they want
35:44
to say to their loved ones, but things that they
35:47
want to maybe nudge their loved ones into. I'll
35:51
always remember my grandmother died when I was
35:55
18, 19, and I was living 20 miles away. I knew
36:01
when she died because she visited me. There was
36:04
something reassuring about that, something quite
36:07
beautiful. And I have had similar episodes. So
36:13
I know I'm an empath. maybe not channeled it,
36:18
maybe I channel it through my celebrancy. But
36:21
I do know how important it all is, not just to
36:26
the living, but to the dead. And I think that
36:28
makes massive sense to you. Absolutely. And it's...
36:35
I'm trying to think of something philosophical
36:36
and clever to say, but... I think that what you
36:43
are saying just shows the importance And this
36:47
is not necessarily fair for everyone, but it
36:50
shows how good you are at what you do, because
36:54
this is such an important part in people's journey,
36:58
whether it is a person who has died or their
37:01
family and their loved ones, because you take
37:04
that time to try and connect. Even if the family
37:08
aren't into all this woo -woo stuff, you can
37:11
still... connect, you can still make an impact
37:15
without making it too, again, that word in a
37:19
vertical, that too woo woo. And it makes such
37:23
a difference. Yeah, it does. And how I present
37:28
myself to people depends on the feedback that
37:33
I'm getting at the time. In education, it's called
37:38
reflection in action. And that's why sometimes
37:43
I ad lib and change my script mentally during
37:49
a service. Because as I'm going through, I'm
37:53
thinking, ah, now I need to react in this way
37:57
because I'm not guessing or I really am getting
38:01
these vibes. But that's about being there in
38:06
the moment with the clients. Yeah, you're not
38:08
just following a script, you're living it. Absolutely
38:11
not, no. I'm sure you have heard of this phrase
38:15
and I hope I'm using it in the right context
38:17
and in my mind I know what this phrase, what
38:20
this thing is, but as you're talking about what
38:24
you do and you're also, I'm also reflecting on
38:29
your previous nursing career as well, have you
38:32
heard of the term soul midwife? Yes. I am very
38:37
good friends with one of the foremost soul midwives,
38:43
Katie Costello. She and I were on a retreat a
38:48
couple of months ago together and she is also
38:52
a celebrant and she sits beside people when they're
38:56
dying. She has conversations with people about
39:00
death. She runs a podcast called Dying for a
39:06
Copper. It's something that, oh, it's like death
39:10
-do -lers and soul midwives come to the same
39:15
role but from different philosophical and spiritual
39:19
perspectives. I have immense respect for anyone
39:25
who is a soul midwife. I think it's something
39:29
that maybe if I were 20 years younger, I would
39:33
explore. But I know that now, it's not my calling.
39:39
End of life celebrations, my calling. And if
39:42
I can reach more people like this young man that
39:45
I'm working with, and in some respects, that
39:50
is a small part. But yeah, soul midwives are
39:53
amazing. How aware are you that the words that
39:58
you choose to use or that you feel are being
40:02
given to you has such weight and impact on a
40:06
moment? How aware are you of that? Oh, I think
40:13
because of the feedback I get almost instantaneously.
40:21
I've sometimes said something and I hear maybe
40:25
a gasp or see a nod or see a smile. As I'm looking
40:30
round, I'm not necessarily just looking at my
40:34
iPad for my script. I just see or hear or feel
40:40
that reaction. I think, my goodness, that's touched
40:45
someone in such a way that it's just brought
40:51
them into that moment, almost pulled them into
40:55
that moment. And again, I have to take a deep
40:59
breath and carry on because what I want to do
41:03
is go talk to that person or listen to them and
41:06
say, what was it? What was it about what I just
41:11
said? But they'll often come to me afterwards
41:14
and say, oh, my word. What you just said just
41:19
captured everything about them. Or sometimes
41:23
I'll be standing outside and somebody will come
41:27
and just give me a huge hug. Because I'm a very
41:31
huggy person. You are. I can attest to that,
41:34
yes. So, again, that gives me a certain affirmation
41:42
that what I'm doing is right. Yeah. What impact
41:50
has being a celebrant taught you about grief?
41:54
Because it's something you come into contact
41:56
with every day, I would imagine, of your life.
42:00
But about grief and about love? Yeah. They are
42:05
so intertwined. As a nurse, I learnt very early
42:10
on is that grief is not linear. Grief doesn't
42:15
come straight away. They talk about the stages
42:19
of grief and in a day you can go through all
42:24
of the stages of grief and you can come back
42:27
again. I'll use an example of my own. My father
42:32
died when I was just 25. My mother was so grief
42:41
-stricken that she could barely function and
42:44
my brother was too young really to take it all
42:47
in. So I dealt with all of the mechanics of registering
42:54
his death, going to the funeral director and
42:57
all of that and I pocketed my grief and I didn't
43:01
let it out until about 10 years later when suddenly
43:05
that grief just hit me. So it doesn't always
43:18
follow that if you're not necessarily grieving
43:21
for somebody, you don't love them. We're all
43:25
different. We all show our grief differently.
43:29
But I do believe that love and grief are together.
43:39
And I have something that I kind of nicked from
43:44
somebody else and I paraphrased it. that says
43:49
that grief is simply the love that you're unable
43:53
to show anymore. Grief comes out in your tears,
43:59
comes out hollow in your chest, a lump in your
44:02
throat. It's love that has no other way to go.
44:06
It's grief that has no other way to go. The two
44:10
are hand in hand. And I very much feel that The
44:15
person who wrote that originally understood grief.
44:20
Just thank you, thank you, thank you so much,
44:22
Judy. This has been absolutely wonderful. Again,
44:26
your words have been, have really touched me
44:28
and I'm sure that those listening to this will
44:31
also be touched. I have one final question for
44:34
you. Before we say our goodbyes, Judy, what does
44:40
a goodbye mean to you as a celebrant, as Judy?
44:46
Goodbye as Judy. I would say it's got to be more
44:51
than a good goodbye. That is, I would say, my
44:57
bottom line. I think it has to be more than that.
45:02
I hope during a goodbye, there's a roller coaster
45:07
of emotions. I often say I haven't done my job
45:12
unless I've got people laughing and crying. It
45:15
kind of fluffs up my ego. If somebody says at
45:18
the end, how long did you know so and so? Then
45:23
I know I've done the job well. And somebody said
45:27
to me the other day, you must have had some conversations
45:31
over a glass of wine or a pint. And I said, I
45:35
wish I had. I really wish I had, because I really
45:40
would have loved to have met that person. So
45:45
that's a good goodbye. Yeah, I think the amazing
45:50
job that you do, you allow people to have that
45:52
moment, you allow people to have that goodbye
45:55
when you make them laugh in a moment that is
46:00
unexpected. They don't think they're going to
46:02
laugh. and you touched them and I think that
46:05
what more could you want from a perfect goodbye?
46:08
Oh gosh, thank you so much. Judy, where can people
46:13
find you? That is if you want to be found, giving
46:16
you this option. Oh of course I want to be found
46:20
so if people look up Moonstone ceremonies and
46:25
I can be found at info at celebrantnorfolk .co
46:30
.uk And I'm more than happy to have phone calls
46:37
out of the blue. I don't work office hours. I
46:41
work evenings and weekends whenever people need
46:44
be or need a celebrant to work with. Wonderful.
46:51
And I can give you a five -star review from personal
46:54
experience. Just a wonderful experience. We already
46:58
have, Matt. Thank you. You're right. I did. I
47:00
did. I'll give you another one. Thank you, Judy.
47:05
It's been absolutely marvellous. Thank you so,
47:07
so much. Thank you. You are most kindly welcome.
47:12
Thank you. Please tell me you enjoyed that as
47:30
much as I did. I've listened to that so many
47:33
times since I recorded it and each time I listen
47:35
to it, it just fills me with joy and brings a
47:39
smile to my face. A massive thank you to Judy.
47:43
That was the first time Judy had done an interview
47:47
for a podcast and she said that off the back
47:51
of that she wanted to do more. So I'm really
47:53
grateful that I was able to get in there first.
47:57
and share her words about words with you a lovely,
48:02
lovely lot. Also a massive well done to Judy.
48:06
I thought she performed fabulously. A total pro
48:10
from the get -go and yeah, just fantastic. I
48:14
said in the interval that as a psychic or medium,
48:17
one of the biggest lessons we can take from this
48:19
is that words have meaning, words have impact.
48:22
And actually, I want to just reframe that. You
48:25
don't need to be a psychic or a medium for words
48:27
to be important. As we live our life in this
48:31
physical world, we can hurt people. I've done
48:35
it. We've all done it. We can love people with
48:38
our words. We can also hurt people. And sometimes
48:40
we don't realize we do it until it's too late.
48:43
Things at the moment in the world, I mean, this
48:47
has been recorded at the end of July, things
48:49
in the world haven't been good for quite some
48:52
time, but they are seriously not good at the
48:54
moment. And I wonder just how much of this could
48:58
be averted with just a bit more understanding,
49:00
a bit more empathy, and by choosing words which
49:05
were not necessarily diplomatic, just kinder,
49:09
kinder and truthful. If you take nothing else
49:14
from this episode, take that. Take that idea
49:19
that you have the power to change other people's
49:22
lives, not necessarily through actions, but through
49:25
your words. You can bring a smile to someone's
49:29
face who may be having a really crappy day. You
49:33
have that power just by one simple word, by maybe
49:36
saying hello or asking how they are. You have
49:40
that power. Make that change and let's see where
49:44
that ripple goes. Until next time guys, I'm sending
49:49
you all my love. Take care. Bye.