Latest / The Kathie Owen Perspective Podcast / 289. What the Enron Scandal Taught Me About Leadership

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289. What the Enron Scandal Taught Me About Leadership · The Kathie Owen Perspective Podcast

• 0:00
  Kathie (2): There it was, in the early nineteen-nineties, I was sitting in a downtown Houston office working for MG Trade Finance, working as a contract administrator.
• 0:11
  Kathie (2): Our New York office was on the line.
• 0:13
  Kathie (2): We were in a video conference meeting, something that was new in the early'90s.
• 0:18
  Kathie (2): We were in video conference meetings constantly.
• 0:21
  Kathie (2): High-pressure finance environments, acquisitions, fast-moving deals, big personalities, mostly male-dominated industries.
• 0:32
  Kathie (2): And that's where I first met Sherron Watkins.
• 0:36
  Kathie (2): Not through the media, not through Enron, not through history books.
• 0:41
  Kathie (2): I actually worked with her.
• 0:44
  Kathie (2): We worked in the same department, and I remember observing her constantly.
• 0:49
  Kathie (2): I remember the way she dressed, the professionalism, the composure, the way she communicated in meetings, woo, and the way she carried herself.
• 0:59
  Kathie (2): Even her body language stayed with me.
• 1:03
  Kathie (2): I admired her deeply as a young woman trying to find her place in corporate America at the time when women were just beginning to rise into major leadership roles in these environments.
• 1:16
  Kathie (2): Years later, the world would know Sherron Watkins as the Enron whistleblower.
• 1:22
  Kathie (2): And I cannot fully explain what it feels like to watch people you know professionally suddenly sitting in front of Congress during one of the biggest corporate collapses in American history.
• 1:37
  Kathie (2): Not celebrities, not people on television, people you worked with, people you spoke with regularly.
• 1:45
  Kathie (2): I knew Sherron professionally I knew Jeff McMahon professionally.
• 1:49
  Kathie (2): I watched them testify before Congress, and something about that stayed with me for decades.
• 1:57
  Kathie (2): At the time, I didn't fully understand why it affected me so deeply, but now I do because long before I had the language for it, I was already studying human behavior under pressure.
• 2:12
  Kathie (2): Welcome to the Kathie Owen Perspective podcast.
• 2:14
  Kathie (2): My name is Kathie Owen.
• 2:16
  Kathie (2): And today, we are talking about something that honestly connects almost every area of my life and work.
• 2:24
  Kathie (2): Systems adapt to dysfunction long before they collapse from it, and once you truly see this pattern, you start seeing it everywhere.
• 2:35
  Kathie (2): Not just in corporations, everywhere.
• 2:39
  Kathie (2): You see it in sports, you see it in families, you see it in leadership teams, you see it in social media, you see it in schools, you see it in relationships, you see it in wellness culture, you see it in founder-led businesses, you see it in blue-collar environments.
• 2:55
  Kathie (2): You see it anywhere humans are operating under emotional pressure for long enough.
• 3:02
  Kathie (2): And what blows my mind now is realizing that I thought everybody saw this.
• 3:09
  Kathie (2): I genuinely believed everyone noticed the emotional dynamics happening underneath systems.
• 3:16
  Kathie (2): But most people are not observing the system itself.
• 3:20
  Kathie (2): They're emotionally reacting inside the system.
• 3:23
  Kathie (2): That's a completely different thing.
• 3:26
  Kathie (2): And I think that distinction is one of the most important conversations we can have right now because psychologically unsafe systems do something very specific to human beings.
• 3:38
  Kathie (2): They train people to adapt.
• 3:41
  Kathie (2): That's what humans do.
• 3:44
  Kathie (2): If favoritism becomes normalized, people adapt.
• 3:48
  Kathie (2): If speaking truth becomes dangerous, people adapt.
• 3:52
  Kathie (2): If emotional suppression becomes rewarded, people adapt.
• 3:56
  Kathie (2): If leadership becomes unpredictable, people adapt.
• 4:01
  Kathie (2): And eventually, the adaptation itself becomes culture.
• 4:06
  Kathie (2): That's the part people miss.
• 4:08
  Kathie (2): Dysfunction rarely enters systems loudly.
• 4:12
  Kathie (2): Usually, it enters quietly, gradually, emotionally, until one day, people are participating in dynamics they no longer even question.
• 4:24
  Kathie (2): And honestly, I've seen this everywhere.
• 4:28
  Kathie (2): I saw it in corporate environments, I saw it in founder-led businesses, I saw it in my personal life, and I saw it constantly in youth sports I call it daddy ball.
• 4:41
  Kathie (2): And if you've ever been around competitive youth sports, you know exactly what I mean.
• 4:47
  Kathie (2): Favoritism, politics, parents emotionally over-identifying with children's performance, kids carrying pressure their nervous systems were never designed to hold.
• 4:58
  Kathie (2): It breaks my heart.
• 5:00
  Kathie (2): I remember watching adults scream at children from the stands.
• 5:04
  Kathie (2): I remember watching exhausted kids left on the mound because politics mattered more than emotional regulation.
• 5:14
  Kathie (2): I remember watching children blamed publicly for mistakes while entire groups normalized behavior because nobody wanted to disrupt the emotional system.
• 5:26
  Kathie (2): That breaks my heart, too.
• 5:29
  Kathie (2): And here's the hard part.
• 5:31
  Kathie (2): When you can see the dynamics clearly, it doesn't mean they stop hurting you.
• 5:37
  Kathie (2): In many ways, I think it hurts more.
• 5:40
  Kathie (2): Because you're watching human beings adapt in real time.
• 5:45
  Kathie (2): You're watching nervous systems shift into survival.
• 5:49
  Kathie (2): You're watching emotional suppression become normalized.
• 5:53
  Kathie (2): You're watching people stay silent because they understand the social cost of speaking up.
• 6:00
  Kathie (2): And I've lived that personally, too.
• 6:03
  Kathie (2): I lost a job I genuinely loved and was extremely good at because of these exact kinds of dynamics.
• 6:12
  Kathie (2): Not because I didn't care, and not because I wasn't effective.
• 6:17
  Kathie (2): But because psychologically unsafe systems often protect the system before they protect the truth.
• 6:26
  Kathie (2): And this is why psychological safety matters so much more than most people realize.
• 6:32
  Kathie (2): This is not just an HR buzzword.
• 6:35
  Kathie (2): This affects leadership, enterprise value, emotional health, communication, trust, performance, retention, families, children, and nervous systems.
• 6:49
  Kathie (2): Because prolonged psychological unsafety changes people physiologically, emotionally, behaviorally, and once I consciously recognized this pattern, my reticular activating system started seeing it everywhere I went.
• 7:07
  Kathie (2): Now, I cannot walk into a room without noticing emotional suppression, nervous system activation, Perception management, power dynamics, favoritism, silence, over-accommodation, fear-based communication, and emotional contagion.
• 7:32
  Kathie (2): And honestly, this is one reason Reality Transurfing affected me so deeply when I first discovered it.
• 7:40
  Kathie (2): Because Vadim Zeland, the author of Reality Transurfing, talks about pendulums, and pendulums are exactly what many dysfunctional systems become.
• 7:50
  Kathie (2): They feed on emotional energy, emotional reactivity, importance, unconscious participation.
• 7:59
  Kathie (2): Sports can become pendulums.
• 8:01
  Kathie (2): Politics can become pendulums.
• 8:04
  Kathie (2): Corporate systems can become pendulums.
• 8:07
  Kathie (2): Social media absolutely becomes a pendulum.
• 8:11
  Kathie (2): And the more emotionally attached people become to the system, the harder it becomes to observe the system objectively.
• 8:21
  Kathie (2): People stop observing and start feeding the emotional field itself.
• 8:26
  Kathie (2): That's when clarity disappears.
• 8:29
  Kathie (2): That's when dysfunction normalizes.
• 8:33
  Kathie (2): That's when people lose themselves.
• 8:36
  Kathie (2): And to tell the truth, I think this is why leadership coaching and consulting is becoming such an important part of my work now.
• 8:45
  Kathie (2): Because once leaders can see these patterns clearly, they stop unconsciously feeding dysfunction inside their own systems.
• 8:54
  Kathie (2): That changes everything.
• 8:55
  Kathie (2): That changes communication.
• 8:57
  Kathie (2): That changes trust.
• 8:58
  Kathie (2): That changes retention.
• 9:00
  Kathie (2): That changes culture.
• 9:02
  Kathie (2): That changes enterprise value, and most importantly, it changes human beings.
• 9:09
  Kathie (2): If this conversation resonates with you, please subscribe to the channel because we are going much, much deeper into this.
• 9:17
  Kathie (2): Please hit that like button and even comment too.
• 9:20
  Kathie (2): This shows YouTube this content matters, and I believe it matters now more than ever.
• 9:27
  Kathie (2): Honestly, I think there are probably at least fifty, probably a hundred conversations connected to this one topic alone.
• 9:37
  Kathie (2): I'm sure your comments alone will bring more conversations to light.
• 9:42
  Kathie (2): And as always, I include a blog post that includes bonus resources and a lot more content that goes with this episode, and I will link that in the show notes and description below.
• 9:55
  Kathie (2): Be sure to check that out too.
• 9:57
  Kathie (2): And if this episode made you think differently- share it.
• 10:01
  Kathie (2): Sharing it helps too, because these are conversations we desperately need right now.
• 10:08
  Kathie (2): I'm so excited about this.
• 10:10
  Kathie (2): People are adapting to distraction.
• 10:13
  Kathie (2): They're adapting to emotional overload.
• 10:16
  Kathie (2): They're adapting to the noise, to the dysfunction, and many don't even realize it's happening.
• 10:24
  Kathie (2): But once you see the pattern, you start seeing it everywhere, and that awareness can completely change the way you lead, communicate, regulate yourself, and move through the world.
• 10:37
  Kathie (2): All right.
• 10:38
  Kathie (2): Thank you so much for being here.
• 10:39
  Kathie (2): I trust that you found today's episode helpful, and I will see you in the next episode of the Kathie Owen Perspective Podcast.