Latest / Student Ministry Conversations / 275 | Anchored Faith: Facing Fear with Faith | SMC Podcast
Transcript
- speaker-0: Hey, and welcome back to the podcast. We are in week two of October, which means we are continuing on the idea of anchored faith. and the idea for this month is the idea that, like, when when students have things that shake their faith, we have to be able to teach them and we have to be able to show them that Christ is able to hold all together. And so last week we talked about. faith that lasts and we talked about why roots are more important than reactions. and we're kind of continuing with that this week but kind of taking a little bit of a different spin on it. And specifically we're looking at the idea of facing fear with faith. And so students are growing up surrounded by reasons to feel uncertain. There's a hundred different things and if we're honest, parents are not helping, grandparents are not helping Because the parents and the grandparents and the teachers and everybody else are fearful of all these different things and we're just teaching our students to fear as well. they worry about school, friendships, family, future, world events, situations, and all of this stuff is well, most of all of that stuff is things that they can't control. And so we have to work on this idea that faith isn't knowing exactly what happens next, it's knowing who remains faithful when we don't. And so, I mean, at the end of the day, that is faith. We we trust in the fact that God is who he says he is. We trust in the fact that God does provide, that God gives us opportunities, and then God will never leave us or forsake us. and so teenagers though live with a lot of what ifs. What if I don't make the team? What if my friends leave? What if my parents' situation doesn't get better? That one's a growing, growing, growing instance. what if I don't get into the school I want when you're looking at the juniors and seniors, when they think that's the next phase of their life and like in order for me to be successful, I have to go to this ministry like I have to go to this school. what if I fail? We don't teach kids how to fail anymore. We're just like, like let's let's push you along so like we don't have to deal with your failure. And unfortunately, at least in the state of Texas, we're seeing that a lot in the education system. to where it's like, hey, we're not gonna actually make you do this again. We just wanna see you get out successfully. and so then there's what if people don't like me? What if my future doesn't work out? And increasingly students are aware of these things that are happening far beyond their immediate world. that just I mean, if we're honest, David, you and I didn't have to worry about when we were growing up. We didn't know what was going on in North Korea or China or Russia or and we didn't care. Like it was it was this magical kind of bubble experience where we got to live our lives, we got to grow up and we got to do all of this stuff to where while we might hear things on the news every now and then, it wasn't something that we were like, Well, I'm really worried about the geopolitical climate and like we didn't have to worry about that. And so how do we disciple students in this uncertainty? Go for it. What you got? speaker-1: think remembering it sounds so simple but I think The answer often isn't as complicated as we think it should be or even feel that it should be. In a in a ever increasingly anxious and scared world, the simplicity of the gospel reminding them that God is still faithful and God is still in control and that God has a plan. I think we gotta we we've gotta root everything in faith. And so now how we do that can change and I think it has to be specific to each student. You gotta tailor it. I mean, there's some students that really struggle with faith, they need imperial evidence on everything. But then you've got some students that if you just say, hey, trust God, He's got you, okay. And they take a deep breath and they feel better. I'm that kind of person. If you just remind me that God is still in control, yes, sir, I'm good. but yeah, someone like my wife, she needs the she needs a proof in the pudding kind of thing, and so So so knowing your students, knowing your leaders and knowing what they need. I think you know, having that that deep relationship with them to know what they need in that moment. we say it a lot, but remember number one to listen. Be there to listen and not just to find a a way to respond and sound smart, but just to listen. And there's nothing wrong with just saying, Yeah, it's hard. I get it. I feel ya. You know, and and then maybe reminding them about what scripture says. and that that means we have to actually kind of study what scripture says in different different areas and you know, how did how did David get through Pizzlements, you know, what did he do when he was scared and frustrated? You know, different things like that. there's a a lot of a lot of places in scripture where we can get that, you know, when when Jesus was was struggling and tired and hungry, how did he get through it? You know, and the faith that he had and you know, that's usually what I go to is like I think of Jesus in the garden, I think of Jesus in the forty days in the wilderness, I think of of Jesus after after doing a whole bunch of ministry and getting alone in the early morning. Those are the those are kind of the anchoring things for me that helps me remember, you know, when he was tired because he had worked a bunch, when he was afraid for his life, when he was hungry or feeling like there wasn't enough. you know, obviously he was Not eating for forty days. That's that's tough. You know, he was in a wilderness, that's tough. And I feel like those three things really define the biggest problems in the world. i i you know you know, our work problems, our provisional issues and what was the other one? when we fear for, you know, our livelihood. I mean, if if if those three things I think can really it and we point people to Jesus, if we're always pointing people to Jesus, and that's how Jesus handled, you know, three of life's hardest struggles, I think it at least allows us to maybe get out of our head a little bit and remember, okay, Jesus, Jesus, the, you know, who is God who created everything still struggled in his human flesh as much as we do, and this is how he handled it. speaker-0: Yeah, I know definitely. And I I think that's a that's a huge aspect and I I think the the most important thing that you said is like, you know, a lot of times like especially when people are hurting or when when they're going through things, like it's really, really easy and it's really really tempting to just throw that quick Christian answer of like the you know, just trust God. And like you said, sometimes that works, but for the majority of people, like it does not work. And it it's true. It's not that it's not true, but it might not always Be helpful by itself because what if the students thinking, Man, I'm trying, but like what does trusting God actually look like? Which you resorted to scripture, you resorted to talking about those things. That's where discipleship begins. And so we have to be not only telling them to trust in God, but we have to be showing them how we trust in God. and so like the dynamic behind that is huge, especially if it's not a faith-filled home. Like if if your parent, like if that student's parents aren't showing them how to actually live out their faith or having like showing how to actually trust God, like they don't know how to do it. And so like I think that's something that's super super important to understand is like students don't need to be just told to trust God. Most of the time they have to sh be like they have to know what trust looks like when they're afraid. and I think like a lot of times we can resort that back to like them trusting a parental figure. When they're going through something scary, or like when they trust a teacher, or when they trust a friend, when they feel like they're in a situation that they can't handle, like that trust that's there is important because you wouldn't walk into a fire with someone you didn't trust. Yeah. And so with that, I think it's super, super important that we understand that like faith doesn't require the absence of fear. And I think sometimes we I think some I I'm hot take. I think a lot of Christians intentionally say that. I think some I think there's this idea that sometimes is accidentally communicated and a lot of times it's on purpose. Is this idea of like, well, you must not be a strong Christian because you're you're you're fearful. And it's like scripture gives us tons of evidence when there people were terrified and still chose faith. The s is speaker-1: Hello, Jesus said, Father, speaker-0: Fine. speaker-1: take this cup from me, but still your will be done. Jesus was so anxious, he was sweating blood. But no no no, don't be afraid. If you were faithful, you wouldn't be that's crazy talk. speaker-0: If you had faint the size of a mustard seed. You know that is that is in the Bible, but you're using it wrong. speaker-1: know, I'll be totally honest. I have faith as big as a mountain and sometimes I still can't make the mountain move. I mean, come on. It's speaker-0: So but with that, like the idea of, you know, if if this like even looking at the Psalms of the Psalms is this constant roller coaster of fear and anxiety and depression and happiness and like it's all of it and the psalms regularly hold distress and trust together. That's important. Biblical faith isn't pretending that everything's okay, it's bringing what's not okay into the presence of God. Instead of faith or fear, or fear or like faith over fear, or all the little cliche things that you hear, perhaps we need students to understand that fear can become an opportunity to practice faith. Faith says, I don't know what happens next, but I do know who God is. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: It's not to me night. You're good. Go ahead. speaker-1: I This has to be said, because it drives me nuts. the sheer amount of damage I've seen us do unintentionally when someone is going through something really, really, really hard. We're talking someone whose family member is dying of cancer and it seems like all the prayers in the world and all the all the things isn't making it happen. It's not changing. And then you know what happens when that person comes to you and says, I prayed and I prayed and I prayed and God didn't listen. Or God didn't answer my prayer, and all of a sudden I've seen it so much, especially in hospital ministry, like people who mean very, very well. I am not bashing here by saying this. Yes, I get heated, but I'm not bashing because I I think so many of us mean well trying to help people in an absolutely impossible situation, but yet we say really damaging things like. I literally heard people say your faith needs to be stronger or because you made this mistake or whatever, God is punishing you, or I've I've heard people say that. And guys, if you have said that, number one, stop. Number two, repent. You're doing you're hurt you're doing more harm than good. It's not always a black and white cause and effect situation. If you need to get to the root of understanding why people die of cancer, go back to Genesis chapter three. Sin entered the world, and with that sin came chaos and death and sickness and all kinds of other things. If you have to have an answer, Genesis 3 is the answer. And everything from Genesis 3 to the end of the story, end of Jesus paying the ultimate price was God's. Redemptive story to bring us back to him, but it doesn't mean that it all goes away. It means that we are still a fatally flawed group of human beings that are suffering and it's hard and it's a struggle, but you don't even necessarily have to say that in those moments, just say, I'm really sorry that this happened and I'm gonna walk with you through it. That's all that needs to be said. speaker-0: Fatally flawed in the image of God. John Foreman reference, just FYI, if you're not pitching that. Me and me and David are huge John Foreman fans. Shout out John Foreman, Switchfoot, you know, all of your things. We're so glad that you probably speaker-1: We're so glad that you watch this podcast. speaker-0: don't watch this podcast about youth ministry. but if you ever did, like, I'm pretty sure we'd be over the moon. Like speaker-1: I I think I would actually cry a little bit. Just speaker-0: I mean it might it might it might have speaker-1: just a message saying, Hey, good job guys. I love your podcast. Yeah. speaker-0: but yeah, no with that though, that that idea of like, you know, like we we have to do better when it comes to that. And I'm not saying everybody does it, but I I mean you bring up a good point on the idea of like, well, if you just had more faith, like we we saw that play out in Job. That's what all the speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: It's like, well, what did you do to piss God off? Like you must have done something really, really bad, and like every single time they're rebuked, and then like so I it's not the right way. I I think the thing about Christians that makes us need to really rely on God is like we need to follow Jesus' example. There's grace and there's truth. Yeah. We have to use both. We can't just leave one at the door. So we have to gracefully speak truth where we go. Now we can gracefully speak truth to correct somebody, but there is a time and a place and there is discernment and use wisdom that has been given to you hopefully. Because if you walk into Which granted, I've been in situations where this has happened to me where it's like, you know, like I'm really happy for you today, but I really want to talk to you about this. And it's like, really? On today? Like right now, like this is when you decide this is a good conversation? Like, and so it does happen, and I'm not saying it doesn't, but like I think that there's a huge dynamic of This this is incredibly damaging to students, but this also kind of leads to point three of what we're talking about today is don't minimize what students feel. And I think that can go twofold is if you downplay what they are feeling, or if you say it's their fault that they're dealing with it, like both of those methods are downplaying what that student's going through. So One of the fastest ways to shut down a student is to minimize their fear. that's not a big deal. I dealt with that too. You know, it's a fact of life kind of thing like that. It might not be a big deal to you. You're an adult. You've lived longer. You have perspective that they don't have yet. But it's real to them. speaker-1: They don't know how to climb this mountain. Just because you've already climbed it and got the pen and the badge and it's hanging on your wall doesn't mean they know how to deal with it. It's terrifying to them. speaker-0: Yeah, it always makes me go back to a story in my first youth ministry. I had a I had a youth student, he was a sixth grader, we had a lock in, and he brought and a couple other people brought their Xboxes. And it was just one of those things. It was like we had a great time at the lock in. We set up Xboxes on TVs and projectors, and that was just getting into the like like. Really land parties were kind of outdated then, but like Xbox Live was becoming more and more and more of a thing and and so like we were playing games together, playing football, doing all kinds stuff. and then the next day everybody goes home and I take I'm sleeping. I wake up to a voicemail from this kid and it goes, Brent, call me as soon as you get this. This is a life or death situation. Click, hangs up. And I'm like, okay. So I call him back. The dude had left the like his power cord to his Xbox at the church. And I was like, all right. Not a life or death situation. Not a big deal. But I can lose a relationship right there by being like, dude, that's stupid. Why did you wake me up for that or anything to that nature? Like, instead, I was like, Man, hey, you know, sorry, like stuff like that happens. I didn't see it when I left. Like, I'll meet you up there, like in thirty minutes, kind of thing like that. And I went and did it. It took a second out of my time to go back up there to find it with him and he thought the world of that because while that was a really, really ridiculously small problem for a sixth grade boy that has no social life, Xbox is life or death. And now there are more serious situations, but I use that one kind of tongue in cheek because it kind of illustrates the idea of like what we see as serious they don't, and what they see is serious most of the time we don't. speaker-1: You know the funny thing is you we have we've talked about this before and I don't know why it's never hit me before, but it is a life or death situation. Think about it. Without that power cord, how is his character gonna be alive? And how is he gonna kill other characters? Life or death. speaker-0: You're but yeah, so like you gotta understand that like what what might not be a big deal to you can still be a big deal to them. I've had students that have come to me and been like, hey, I really like can I talk to you for a little bit? I really need prayer. And I'm like, yeah, sure. What's going on? It's like well I notice that like when I walk one of my legs feels weird. And it's like okay, like I you know it it's once again, like concern for the student. And in my brain, I'm like, I mean, do you need to go see a chiropractor? Do you need to just like stretch? Like, do you do you need to like get off your butt and quit playing video games? Like what what's what's going on? Like I can think of a thousand different ways, but once again, I'm an adult. I've lived longer. I have perspective that they don't have yet. They probably don't even know what a chiropractor is. and so with that, like We have to understand that what is real to them needs to be real to us in that moment. And it starts with listening. Hey, man, tell me what's making you afraid. Or what hey, what part of this feels hardest? What are you worried might happen? Then help them move from emotion towards truth. Not by dismissing the emotion. But by anchoring that emotion. Because when you anchor emotion, students will learn that when they have this emotion, they have to anchor it back to trusting God. That's discipleship. We don't disciple students out of emotion. We teach them how to bring their emotions under the truth of God. And so Like our our message can't just simply be, you know, everything will work out, it's fine. We've made a promise that scripture doesn't make. Sometimes circumstances don't work out the way that we want them to. speaker-1: is a such a thing as false positivity. You speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: know, I literally watched a video by my buddy Ross King posted this morning, I think. and he was talking about kind of the struggle there. he was literally watching his wife die of cancer and knowing there was absolutely nothing he could do to change it. They went through every everything they could and and having all the faith and trying to write songs and and and lead people in worship and yet he's watching these videos of of worship leaders getting up there saying that God is going to fill fulfill every promise and God is going to God is going to take care of all your needs and you already have the victory and you already have all these things and and he's like all of those things ha are rooted in truth but there's also a level of it that's it's unkind. And he was like and and and we have to consider that sometimes the way that you know while we're trying to speak truth and positivity and encouragement over our our students over our congregations over our community, we can be sometimes unintentionally unkind in that there's probably at least one person sitting in the audience going, why didn't God answer my prayer? Why wasn't my faith strong enough? Why wasn't you know what did I do wrong? What did I, you know, and they're they're it it's faith shattering guys. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: When you're talking about praying to a God to or I shouldn't phrase it that way, praying to God about the scariest moment of your life, and He says no, and you're like, What the crap? Why? What am I doing wrong? What am I? And more times than not, marriages break over these kind of things. Families fall apart over these kind of things. We'd be crazy enough to think that faith is faith is usually the first thing to go in those moments of just absolute despair and hurt and yeah and stuff like that. And so while we want to preach a gospel of hope because it's absolutely there and and trust in God because that's absolutely true. That's the core of the gospel, we gotta consider how we present it. speaker-0: Yeah, sure. No, I mean and and I think that's a that's a huge dynamic because when we at the end of the day, like how we present that is is everything. You know, like we have to teach that sometimes circumstances don't work out the way they want. Like a couple I mean it's been f four or five years ago now. I had a I had a senior. her dad had cancer for years. Died her senior year. She was like, I I I'm gonna miss out on all these things. And it's like, you're not gonna miss out on these things. I was like, unfortunately, yes, he's gone. I was like, but that doesn't mean that he's still not there. I was like, you gotta understand that like if if he believed in God, like you you gotta understand, like this is this is an opportunity for reuniting. This is not a this is not an opportunity for like I'll never see you again. And while there might be pain and suffering in in those moments, there should also be a celebration that he's not suffering anymore. And I tell people all the time, you know, like, don't feel bad bad about me when I'm when I'm dying or when I'm like, man, what a what a glorious opportunity for me to be in heaven. Like, and I I think sometimes we mix this up and a lot of times I see par like people praying and being like, God, just just heal them. Just just use this opportunity to make things better. And then God's like, okay. And like they die. Like that's an answer prayer. And a lot of times we're like, well, that but that's not you didn't do it how I wanted it. That's not the Bible says that you do what I want. And it's like, no, that doesn't say that at all. Like, you gotta understand that like circumstances don't always work out the way that we want them to work out. Biblical trust has to be deeper than that. Biblical trust is deeper than that. If you look at the stories in the Bible where things didn't go their way, like I would guarantee you there's more stories about things not going their way than stories about like opportunities of like, you know, God's this wish-graining genie. And like this, it was a really, really great day because God answered all my prayers. Like, it does happen a time or two, but it does not happen very often. And so, like, you have to understand that like we have to teach more than that. We have to teach the idea that God is good, regardless of your circumstances. speaker-1: And let's be honest, if if all God is is a magic granting genie, that's not faith. That's r that's basically press this magic button and everything's gonna work out great for you. Faith is it's expectation. It's knowing that if I do this thing, if I rub a lamp, if I press a button, if I pray real hard that I'm gonna get everything that I've ever desired, that's not faith, that's cause and effect. That's different. Yeah. Faith is I needed this thing, it didn't work out, but still I trust in God. Sure. speaker-0: Yeah. And so I mean we have to understand the fact speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: No, it's not. But we have to teach this idea that God is good all the time. I mean, we say it, but I don't think we mean it. Like and and like Forrest Frank is huge now and that's like one of his biggest songs. God is good all the time. If he ain't then he's lying. It's like, you know, that that is foundational theology that he turned into this rap hip hop song. It's like God is good, God is present, God is faithful. The number of times that we can look and see God's faithfulness in Scripture, hopefully, the number of times you can look in your life and see God's faithfulness. Hopefully, we can teach that God sees. God sees us in our moments of weakness, but he's also there in our moments of triumph. God knows us. Scripture says that he knows our inner inmost being. David writes that. Knows the hairs on our head. God remains God even when circumstances are uncertain. If he didn't, he wouldn't be God. So, this is where theology becomes incredibly pastoral. What a student believes about God determines how they interpret uncertainty. I'm going to say that again. What a student believes about God determines how they interpret uncertainty. So teach God's character. Because when students cannot understand their circumstances, they need something deeper than their circumstances to anchor themselves to. Otherwise, they're never gonna get out of their turmoil and their emotions. So, how do you practically disciple students through fear? Help students to do a few of these things. First and foremost, they have to name what they're afraid of. If they just sweep it under the rug and they never actually deal with the issue, it's never gonna go away. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. But when we say name it, we don't mean name it and claim it and become a badge of dishonor. Like we mean name it so that you can then find a healthy way through it. speaker-0: 100%. You can't solve a problem that you don't see. and so, like, I mean, just like in the AA meetings and everything else, you know, like admitting it is the first step to recovery. Like, you have to admit that you have a problem. And so, with that, yeah, they have to name what they're afraid of, they have to put it out into the air that they are afraid of something. Vague fear becomes overwhelming. Because there's nothing attached to it. Naming us allows naming it allows us to bring something specific before God. Then separate what they know from what they're imagining. The number of times and number of conversations I've had with my teenager about things that he's fearful of that he doesn't even know. It's like, dude, why are you fearful of that? Like that doesn't, you don't even know if that's true. So why are you terrified of that? Like, and there's so many things that people deal with. And the thing is, is our culture is spewing it more and more and more and more. makes me think of in sixth grade. Me and my wife went to a marriage conference, not because we needed it, because we thought it would be a fun weekend getaway. and so we went and like I I saw an ad that pastors went for free. and so I like signed up and applied for it and everything, and I got it. So I was like, hey, like, you know, it's a weekend in Dallas, like going to a marriage conference, kind of thing like that, could be a lot of fun. gave us two nights away from the kids. Like it was just an opportunity for us to get away and go spend time with each other. Well, we left on Friday morning because the conference started on Friday, and my son goes to the counselor in sixth grade. And says, I think my parents are getting a divorce because they're going to a marriage conference. We didn't tell him that. We've na we have not shown him any inclination of that. Who taught him that? The culture. Well, everybody else in my class has family has parents that are divorced. He even made the claim in fourth or fifth grade, I can't remember. He came home one day, he goes, I'm the only kid in my class that hasn't had parents that have had a divorce. Out of like twenty-four, twenty-five kids. He said, I'm the only kid in my class that has parents that are still together. That is not something that a fifth, fourth, fifth grader needs to know. That is not something that they should have to deal with. But then like it it's it's rampant. And I'm not I mean, yes, like it's it's woefully irresponsible of me to say, like, you know, if if you've been divorced, like you're ruining things. Like, things happen, I don't agree with the choice. Like life happens and we have to deal with it. And there are some grounds that are biblical for divorce, but I would say that ninety-five percent of marriages aren't following those biblical grounds when they go into divorce. and so like be mindful and be careful of that of like we see you if you're going through it. I I my heart breaks because then like I have a conversation literally with my ten year old yesterday that has a group project. And he brings home a phone number for a kid that's in his class that is his group project partner and they're supposed to come together and meet this weekend. And he goes, hey, here's his number, but you're gonna have to call dad because they're going through a divorce right now. Like that was the words that came out of his mouth. Not his name. Not anything fun about like learning this friend, hey, here's his number. You're gonna have to call his dad because he's with his dad right now. Because his parent his parents are going through a divorce. It's it's heartbreaking. But like once again It's evident in our world. Chaos, destruction. You said it before, sin enters and causes chaos. And so, but we have to name what they're afraid of. And sometimes, like it is that con it is that happening. It is that, my parents are getting a divorce, or my dad's dying of cancer, or sometimes it's super, super serious things that like we really, really need to be attentive to and shepherd well. And sometimes it's, hey, I left my power cord at the church, and I'm gonna die if I don't get it back in the next three hours. Like, so regardless, vague fear can become overwhelming. And regardless of the fear, we have to speak life and speak truth into that fear. We have to get them to name what they're afraid of. We have to separate what they know from what they're imagining, and say, you know, hey, what, you know what actually happened? Going back to my, you know, thankfully the counselor that talked to my son when he was in sixth grade was like, you know, so like what makes you think that? And began to ask those questions that we're telling you to ask now. What actually happened? Like, what what made you think that? well, they're going on a marriage conference. Okay. And in her mind she's like, Well, I mean, marriage conference checks out that could possibly be a I mean, like a last ditch effort. Versus like so what actually happened instead of hey what what are you afraid of that might happen? That's that's a dangerous question because you're opening imagination. You're opening everything they've ever heard, everything they've ever thought, everything they've ever seen, and half of that's imaginary and not true. So ask specific questions to separate what they know from what they're imagining. Now thankfully. That counselor was worth her wait and she did a great job. And she called my wife while we were driving to D F W and she was like, Hey, so your son came in. I was just checking in on things around the house, like how are things going? And she was like, What? She's like, No, we're just going for the weekend 'cause it like it was a good getaway. She goes, okay. She's like, you know, it's just the world we live in. I didn't know. I wanted to check and make sure. She was like, This was just kind of like a home wellness check and So like she did her due diligence, but she also spoke truth and spoke life into my son before he left. Finally, last two, pray honestly. Use the psalms that model honesty before God. I always think of the the psalms that are like, God, I don't feel you. Are you even there? Why would you abandon me in this moment of despair? Like all this stuff. Those aren't words that you want to say to God in a in a cutesy biblical setting. Like those aren't the words that you want to find in all God's children children Bible. Like those aren't the those aren't the like happy go lucky words. Those are like the I'm struggling with this. God, you better show up because I trust you. You also don't see the story of like Jonah, which is like, you know Jonah, like he gets swallowed by a whale and then God does miraculous things. No, Jonah was the most disobedient, disrespectful, like grumpy person in all of the Bible. speaker-1: I I would not I've said this so many times. I would not change the Bible, but I would omit the crap out of Jonah. speaker-0: Ha ha speaker-1: Even though it's an important it's an important lesson for us to learn. I cannot stand Jonah. speaker-0: I think it shows this dynamic though. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Bitterly honest with God, and he's like, it's it's he says, God, it's not that I don't trust you. It's I trust you too much. Yeah. I know you're gonna redeem them. I don't want them to be redeemed. And so like the mindset is, is like, you know, Jonah prayed honestly. He's like, heck no, I'm not gonna do that. They're my enemies. Why would I go let you save them? speaker-1: Okay. Yeah. speaker-0: No. speaker-1: some other biblical truth because I can get the weeds here. I think of Elisha after after such an incredible literal mountaintop experience and and seeing God move and and be faithful and show up in such an incredible manner and then all of a sudden he's got this very powerful person who wants him dead and he is terrified. And what I love is that in that moment when he's just like God just let me die alone here This cave. God just says, buddy, you're tired, you're hungry. Just get some. I was literally gonna say grab a Snickers, here's a sleeping bag, get some Z, eat a Snickers, you're gonna be fine. And funny enough, sometimes sometimes that is what we need. Maybe, maybe the most loving thing we can tell a student in a moment is, Hey, I see your struggle. But I also see that you're not taking care of yourself. I'll tell you, Brent has been that for me. in times when I was really struggling, and he's like, dude, you're not you're overworking. You're not sleeping enough. You're not taking care of yourself mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually. Bro, you need to rest. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong. I I think maybe the most loving thing we can do is is ask that question. Hey, when was the last time you slept? When was the last time you When was the last time you really Took care of yourself. And when was the last time you took a day off? And when was the last time you got away for a weekend or had a staycation or gave yourself an an ability to reset? Remember, Jesus got away. Jesus took a moment and rested and and refueled and stuff like that. Sometimes that's that's all that needs to be done is we're catastrophizing a situation because we're exhausted and we d and wisdom and rational thinking goes away when we're tired. And most of us are operating out of absolute Absolute exhaustion. speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. And and then the other the other thing that I was gonna say is just remember God's faithfulness. Yeah. I I tell students all the time, why is it important to see where God's faithful? It's because you look back on it when you're struggling. You look back on the moments he's been faithful to remind you that he'll be faithful again. So where have you seen God meet you before? Like, you know, I think I think that's a really, really important question. And I think that's the wrestle with students, especially with fear and anxiety and worry, is some of these students have never seen God step up. And so, like, that challenge of visualizing when God has been a parent in their life is the t is the challenge. Like, we just have to teach them that God is there, and we have to show them. where they can find God in their lives. and then you take the next step faithfully together. Students don't need ten years like their next ten years figured out. Often they just need to know, hey, what does faithfulness look like today? That's a powerful discipleship question. I had a student last night text me at like almost ten o'clock. and I had before the year started, she was like, Hey, I really like I wanna be honest, I really don't like I feel like you're pushing me towards leadership. I don't want to be a leader. I was like, That's fine. I it you know it's a it is a hundred percent a on you thing. If you want to, I allow it. I do push and when I see leadership in people, I try to give them opportunities to lead. and sometimes that doesn't work. And sometimes they're like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow, slow your roll. I don't I don't I don't like that. And this was one of those cases and I was like, that's fine. She was like, but she said, I don't want to be a leader. I feel like I I feel like for this year especially it would be better for me to be the learner. Because I feel like there's a lot left for me to learn. And I said, I'm fine with that. But I have a question for you. On a one to ten scale, where would you say you are in your faith? And then tell me why. And so she Like I had that conversation before school started and she texted me last night, Hey, I'm so sorry. I forgot. It's not that I forgot about the question. I just really haven't had time to wrestle with it. and I finally had some time with the day off to wrestle with it. I would say that I'm a seven out of ten. I speaker-1: I I have speaker-0: have a f a relationship with God, I trust him greatly, and I was like, Great. Here's two questions for you to think of on your own. What does a seven out of ten look like in your week to week? Like how are you modeling that I'm a seven out of ten? How does that infect and invade the rest of your week? And then secondly, I said, I'm gonna have to look it up. no, secondly I said, yeah, she she said, you know, I I'm confident in my abilities, I'm I'm I I feel great and I feel strong in my relationship with God, but occasionally I still struggle with these sins. And I said, My second question for you to rhetorically think about is is this a sin that you need help with? Do you need accountability from a peer? Like, and I said, for example, like if your sin was like you can't stop cussing, do you need friends to call you out every time they catch you cussing? Kind of thing like that. Do I do I need accountability for whatever my sin is? Or is this a sin that I feel like I can remove on my own with God's help? And so those are the two questions I asked her. But she said, Hey, look, I I'm here and I said, Great, here's your next step. How does faithfulness look like today in that step? Those are discipleship questions, and we have to be working and moving towards those opportunities to where we are constantly challenging students to take their next step. Because if we're leaving students idle, we're doing a disservice to them. Our students are going to experience uncertainty, and we cannot eliminate that. But we shouldn't be building ministries that pretend Christianity provides an easy answer to every frightening situation. We can give them something better. We can give them a trustworthy God. So maybe the goal isn't raising students who never ask, what if? Maybe it's raising students who eventually learn to answer. Even if I don't know what happens next, I know who I'm following. Faith doesn't always give us a map for what comes next, it gives us an anchor for when we can't see the way. That's all I have David. I don't know if you have anything else to throw. speaker-1: No I think it's been solid. speaker-0: With that being said, like thank you so much for the support. the I man, we gotta we gotta keep on shouting out Hong Kong, China, Japan, like those are the metrics that are showing up in our our our listeners right now, which is wild. And America too. Like, I mean, but like over the last month, 36% of our listeners has been in America, which is mind-blowing to me. And so like If you are listening in another country, thank you so much. It's wild to us that you would even find us, let alone listen to us and think that we're worthy of being listened to. but time and time again, people keep showing up from different countries. and or diff I mean diff it it's wild. I don't even know what to say. But either way, we are excited that you have found us as a platform or something to listen to. hopefully you're finding it that it edifies you and builds you up and then gives you opportunities for instruction and ministry. we just want to see Jesus reach the next generation. it's been what we have been passionate on for decades now. and we are just as passionate and just as motivated to get it out to the new youth pastors that are working in our world today. We see you. We love you guys. Thank you so much for listening. and we just if if we can do anything to encourage you more, like please let us know because that is our goal. We want to equip, encourage, and inspire you to be a better youth pastor for the church that you're serving in. And it's wild to me, David, to think about that like there might be someone in an underground church listening to our podcast. speaker-1: Man, that's humbling. speaker-0: That that's wild. But in all reality, if if we have that many people listening from China, like keep doing what you're doing. that's absolutely wild. just I I I don't even have speaker-1: It almost makes me reframe a little bit because it's like sometimes we talk about things so simplistically, you know, and and we we speak from our our very privileged and limited view of the freedom that we have to do what we do. I mean the freedom to openly talk about youth ministry, to have a podcast without any fear of repercussion or, you know, I I don't fear that anybody in my church, I mean, even even looking on it on a different perspective, I don't fear that my church is gonna, you know, yeah, you know, be sitting there with a clipboard going, Mmm, okay, well that's a fireable offense. Like you know what I mean? Like no, I've had people who listen to our podcast and go, I think it's awesome that you guys are doing all of that and I think is awesome that you're encouraging people. Like this has been a a cool, cool opportunity for us, not just for for youth pastors, but for people in other sides of ministries. We've talked about that. Like we we've heard of children's ministers and volunteers that are in totally different areas of their church that have taken some of this stuff and they're like, hey, I think that applies, which is really cool. But it is, it is humbling in a sense of thinking like, what if there is somebody in an underground church who's just trying to get the gospel? speaker-0: But man, talk about fear faith and fear and anxiety and all that stuff. So I'd love to speaker-1: Get some of those guys on here. Obviously we can't, but man, yeah. We could just shut up and let them talk about what faith really looks like, you know. speaker-0: Then there then there's also just the other things of like, you know, shout out Nick in my Wesleyan Biblical Seminary class that was like first day of class. He was like, What'd you say your podcast was? You know, it's like student ministry conversations. He was like, yeah, I listened to you guys. He was like, I knew I recognized your voice, which is wild. Like, so stuff like that. It's it's super cool. It gives us encouragement, gives us the desire to keep pushing and keep going. I mean, this is episode 270. Five, we are halfway through season six. And that is crazy to me. but I feel like I have more of a love and a passion for this podcast now than I have ever had. and it just keeps getting more and more fun, getting to do this week to week. And so with that being said, I am pretty much out of things. We'd love for you to share this with your youth pastor friends. because we wanna reach more. And so like if if you would we do word of mouth and that's it, because we are two youth pastors that have no promotional funds, materials. I don't really know. we we post episodes. Yeah, we post episodes and we don't pay for anything other than Riverside, which is the podcasting platform that we use. and so with that being said, thank you for your sharing with your youth pastor friends. If this episode was great, share it with someone you know. If you have another favorite, share it, or just share our podcast. we would love to hear from we'd love for more people to hear and have opportunities to be invited into the conversation. And then just another reminder, r We have moved our website. It is no longer student ministry conversations.org. It is smcpodcast.com. And so there you can find every single episode we've ever done. You can find an about us page for all about me and David and about the podcast. and then also I put a newsletter article out for every single episode that we do that is a continuation of each episode. It kind of expands it a little bit more. And then it also has like practical challenge questions for you to kind of pursue on a week to week basis. And so that comes out at the same time as the podcast does. You can go to our website, smcpodcast.riverside.com, and you can subscribe to the newsletter and you can get in in your email, or you can just go to the website and read the newsletter articles. but I'm kind of just treating it like a blog post. and we're going going from there. we are like I said, it's been weekly for the last probably two months now. and every single week that we have one of these episodes, we have a blog post that comes out the same day, same time, that has all the extra information and content. And any show notes, maybe links that we talk about in the discussion, I'm also putting those in those blog articles. And so super good information to know if you haven't. and then also, like I said, we're just trying to help out as much as we can. So if there's anything else that you could Or like, you know, it'd be really beneficial if we had this. Let us know. I'm not gonna say we can always do it, but we wanna help out where we can. and we love you guys. David, I believe it's your turn to pray. I don't remember. But with that, why don't you why don't you close us out in prayer and we will call it an episode. speaker-1: Absolutely. Well, Father God, we just thank you so much for your love, your grace, your mercy. Lord, we thank you for the humbling opportunity we have to to have a small impact, God, to have this platform in which we can not only hopefully encourage student leaders and volunteers through various ministries, not just youth ministry, but Father, also just the encouragement for ourselves to know here's some things that we're we're doing well, here's some things. That we're working on. Here's some things that we we really need to improve, and sometimes just simply hashing out these episodes are a reminder. I mean, as much as we hopefully say some stuff that are noteworthy, we're taking notes too and reminding ourselves of the basics, you know, keeping the main thing, the main thing, and continuing to pursue excellence in our ministry and and being honest when we're not doing the best job or being honest when we're failing. But Father, just thank you for this platform. Thank you for this opportunity that we have to to hopefully encourage and to inspire and equip leaders out there listening. From all over the world as much as that surprises us, God, there's a part of me that just goes, We shouldn't be surprised because where two or more are gathered. There you are also in the in our midst and you're you're working all things for the good of your people and w as we also know your work never returns void. And so God of course you're moving, of course you're equipping, of course you're you're encouraging people and we wouldn't be doing this if if your hand wasn't moving in this situation. So of course you're doing all those things and it has nothing to do with us. We just get to be the vessels. We just get to open our mouth and and yap a bit, which is a pretty special and and fun thing to get to be a part of. And so Father, we thank you for this. we're humbled by it, God, and and we're grateful. We're grateful for the way that you're moving. God, I pray for each person that's listening on the other side of this, God, whatever they're going through, whatever struggles they're feeling, whatever insecurities they're they're dealing with God. I just pray that you would in fear for that matter, not just for our students. We talked a lot about the student student fear, but God, we know that we as leaders feel those things too. God. And yes, maybe we've got some things on our bookshelf that and some Ebenezer moments that's gotten us through it doesn't mean that we don't still have moments of fear ourselves. And so God, I just pray that you would speak life and truth and and peace and wisdom into all of those situations, God, that you would your hand would move and that You would comfort where comfort is needed and bring wisdom where wisdom is needed. And ultimately, God, that your your gospel truth would reign over all fear, over all frustration, over all doubts and and feelings of of just completely of complete inadequacy, God, that your your truth would reign so far above all of those things that you would replace any lies with your truth and your wisdom. God, we thank you for what you have done. We thank you for what you are doing. God, I I pray as always that that your peace, which surpasses all understanding, would guard our heart hearts and mind in Christ Jesus. God, ultimately, that that's gotta be the the the best thing that I can pray over anybody is that is that your peace and your wisdom and your truth, God, that goes beyond what we think and what we know and what we feel. God may that peace guard our hearts and our minds that we can lead with boldness, that we can lead with joy, we can lead our these students, our congregations, our church, our community with the confidence that you're the one who's in control. And we can trust you. It's in your name we pray.