Latest / Global Leadership Collaborative / #08: Be Rooted: Karen Floor, Organizational Development Team Lead, SIL Global
Transcript
- Woody McLendon: Hi, and welcome to the Global Leadership Collaborative Podcast. My name is Woody McLendon, and I'm your host. And the goal of this podcast is to encourage current and future leaders in the Bible translation movement around the world. We get to do that through a series of conversations with leaders who are willing to share their journey of ministry and leadership in Bible translation. So today I'm thrilled to welcome a gifted leader and a dear friend Karen Floor, who's connecting from her home in Cape Town, South Africa. Karen, so delighted to have you on the podcast today. Karen Floor: Well, thank you, Woody. It's good to be here. And greetings from the southern tip of Africa. Woody McLendon: Yeah, that's that's awesome. It's wonderful that we can connect and the technology allows this conversation to happen, me in North Carolina and you in South Africa. So, Karen, as we were preparing for this conversation, you and your husband Sebastian have had a long and fruitful journey in ministry and Bible translation, and you shared a story about your time after about 20 years serving with SIL in Mozambique, where you reached a critical decision point for yourselves and your family. And I'd like to jump into our conversation at that point for you to share a bit of that story and what was unfolding in your lives then and how God was leading through that season. Karen Floor: You know, Woody, we... we thought we were going to be in Mozambique forever. We had made it our home and that's what we thought. And so when we felt a dawning happening, we were realizing maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe it was time that we moved back to our home country, South Africa, because of aging parents and our sons getting ready for college. And we just had a sense it was time to go, but we were very conflicted because Sebastian was the country director at the time. We didn't want to just abandon ship. We didn't want to leave our ministry in Mozambique if it was our idea and our fears and our doubts. We really wanted to know this is the Lord leading us home, to pack up and go home. We were going around in circles every day, well, should we, shouldn't we? And finally we decided to take two weeks to pray about it and not talk to each other about it, but just talk to the Lord about it and then come and share what we felt the Lord saying. So we had agreed that if the Lord says stay, we stay and we will trust Him for our family needs. But if He says go, we will trust Him for our the ministry that we were involved in. But the thing was we both had to hear the same thing to be sure, right? And we weren't talking to each other at all for two weeks about this. So that was how we came to this conclusion. I was feeling like I was hearing the Lord saying, you really need to trust Me, but it is time to go home and attend to these family things and that would be pleasing to Me. And so I was hearing that, but I was so, you know, I didn't want to be the one to pull Sebastian away from his responsibilities, and so I was still quite conflicted, but as the two weeks approached, the end of the two weeks, I felt quite sure, well, I will have to tell Sebastian this is what I've heard and then see what he's heard. Well, it turns out he heard the same thing, and much to my surprise, and so we started making arrangements and within I don't know how many it was a you know a shortish space of time three to six months I forget the exact period now that we started making arrangements to to hand over everything we were involved in in Mozambique and head back to South Africa, which was a very scary move for us because at that time there were no remote assignments the way we have today. People had to be on-site to do their job. And we were not aware of any on-site assignments that were available in South Africa. Our sending organization, Wycliffe South Africa, we weren't aware of any. And so we were really stepping off the cliff, we felt. But at least with the certainty that we had both heard the Lord say this and we were going to trust Him. you Woody McLendon: Wow, well, thank you. When and And the next steps are pretty awesome. And so we'll get to that with some some questions in a moment. But I appreciate you sharing the practical steps that you guys took as a couple to process this together. And I'm curious, you know, it sounds like there was tension in terms of just feeling like God had called you and now you have this other thing. But what were some of the other challenging components of this decision for you, you both as a couple, as you were making this transition? Karen Floor: Yeah, well, we both had responsibilities in Mozambique and actually I was at the time... you know, leading the school that we had started in Mozambique and there was, that wasn't going to be possible to hand over immediately. So we had to meet with many other people, we had to share with them that this is how we felt the Lord was leading, you know, that we were conscious of the impact that was having, going to have on many people would be hearing, the country director would be leaving, the school director would be leaving. It wasn't an easy thing to do to communicate those things and to involve people in helping to find the solutions and map out a roadmap of how we would do a stable transition. But by God's grace, we were able to do that. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. And I'm curious, what are some of the principles from that season that still influence your leadership today Karen Floor: That's a good question. I think the one thing is to really... One of my favorite verses is to not lean on our own understanding but to acknowledge the Lord in all our ways. That really takes some quietening of our heart and mind and spirit. But I have found over and over how... helpful that has been in small things, in big things, just to really consciously surrender my own understanding of the situation and trust that the Lord will reveal His understanding, His way, because He's faithful to show us His way if we just take the time to listen. Woody McLendon: Amen. Amen. Well, that's yeah, thank you. I love that those verses from Proverbs 3 also. They're rich and powerful. You know, it's funny, I find that often the the the most meaningful Scriptures are not hard to understand. They're challenging to put into practice and and but yet rich as we Karen Floor: Hmm. Woody McLendon: do. So thank you for sharing that. I wanna come back to what happened, but before we go ahead in your story, actually go back to the beginning. Telling Take a few moments and tell me a bit about where you were born and grew up and your your family. Karen Floor: Sure, I grew up in a little mining town in South Africa. So my grandparents lived there. I remember my grandfather worked on the mine, and we were happy as a family. And then some situation changed with my father's work, and so we moved up to Johannesburg, which is a big city, so a very big change for us as a family. And then I went to school, my whole school, all the school years, living in Johannesburg. And I was the eldest of five siblings, and we really had the privilege of being raised by godly parents who actually had never had the opportunity for university education but they raised us in God's ways and we really experienced so much love and security. Woody McLendon: Well, praise God. Praise God for that. Well, tell me who was a Karen Floor: Mm. Woody McLendon: significant influence upon your life at that season that influenced Karen Floor: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: who you are as a person today and a leader today? Karen Floor: Well, I could just say my parents definitely were a very big influence on my life. I think in particular, and I'll just mention this briefly, but we experienced a big family crisis when I was nine years old and my father had a very serious accident which made him become a paraplegic. He was paralysed from the waist down. But, you know, that experience gave me such a valuable opportunity to observe a deepening of faith in my parents' lives. And it just cemented into me, into my mind and my spirit, that faith in the Lord Jesus is a real thing. And I was just really, really impacted by that. I think the other thing was at the church we were attending, the minister's wife, she was running the children's ministry and she challenged us every year to read a biography of one of these faith heroes, you could say. But I was really challenged by the fact that they were not really heroes. They were made to be heroes, but when you read their stories, you saw their incredible struggles and how it was just by clinging to the Lord and just surrendering completely to Him that their lives unfolded. I just really wanted to have that kind of, you know, relationship with God. That's, so yeah, I think the minister's wife there had a big impact on me because of how she challenged us, you know, to trust the Lord for something for our lives that would be more than just, you know, attending church and going through the motions. Woody McLendon: Thanks. Thanks. Well, that's really encouraging to hear of her example and and work in your life. So it sounds like it was fairly at a fairly young age you made a personal decision to follow the Lord Jesus. Did that How did that unfold? Karen Floor: Hmm. Yeah, you know, I think I did make a decision then, but I think I was challenged again when I went to university, and that was now the first time I was not living under my parents' roof, and so it was at a next level of trusting the Lord, you know, and I realized there were definitely aspects of my life that I had not yet surrendered to the Lord. And so that was an experience for me, and I think, you know, there was something of a spiritual renewal going on on the campus at the time. And so that was a blessing to be part of a student awakening. There were a number of students who were also feeling, well, we need to figure out where we really stand with the Lord. We can't just coast along. And so it was wonderful to become part of a group that where together we were seeking the Lord for our lives. That was really where it got cemented in. Woody McLendon: Praise God. Praise God. So is that when you first sensed God putting on your heart to be involved in ministry more directly? How did that unfold? Karen Floor: Well, I wasn't particularly looking for it, but I happened to meet a young man and his name is Sebastian and he was on his way to becoming a Bible translator. And so I realized that if our relationship was going to develop, then I would need to be sure that this is something that I could give myself to as well. And so although I was quite willing to be a Ruth and go wherever he went, you know, I did have the opportunity to explore a little bit more about Wycliffe and Bible translation. Wycliffe South Africa was running a sort of a probe course in the university holidays, the summer holidays. And so I signed up for that and I was hooked. I loved the linguistics and the translation principles but also the stories, mainly the stories and the people that were presenting those modules. You could tell God had done something in their lives through their service, and I just thought what a privilege it would be actually to serve the Lord in whatever way but in this field. So I said yes to Bible translation before I said yes to Sebastian, but I did do both, yes. Woody McLendon: Well, great. That's good. and One of the the joys in this these conversations I get to have is the stories of of leaders and people that God uses, average people that God puts his hand upon and and does is able to serve in unique and amazing ways. So so tell me a little bit about saying yes to Bible translation and yes to Sebastian. How did that unfold for you both? And when then what what did the Lord do in that next season? Karen Floor: Yeah, so shortly after we were married, we joined Wycliffe and we had understood that there was an assignment available in Francophone Africa. And so we started learning French, but just in our spare time because I was teaching by then I was, you know, I had gone into high school teaching and Sebastian was was also working, and we we were learning French. And then we we heard this news that that assignment had been taken by somebody else from a different mission, a a Norwegian mission, and so that door had closed. And it might sound strange that there weren't other opportunities for us to serve in Francophone Africa, but actually part of the history that we carry as South Africans, of course, is the whole era of the apartheid regime, when a certain group came into power and they institutionalized, you know, apartheid. So there were many countries in the world that did not open their doors to South Africans. So there were just a few, and of those few, this particular country, it was Ivory Coast actually, Côte d'Ivoire. They were willing for South Africans to come and so we thought we were going there. But that didn't turn out to be the case and so we were thrown into a quandary and wondered well, where will we be able to go and serve? To cut a long story short, the way the Lord led us was to actually take an assignment in Mozambique, which is a neighbouring country of South Africa. It didn't feel as far as we had expected, but at the same time it was northern Mozambique, so that's a nine-day drive to get up to the north of Mozambique. So it is pretty far. But, so then we switched from French to Portuguese and we started preparing for the assignment in Mozambique. And I think you've already mentioned, you know, that's where we served for 20 years. Woody McLendon: Wow. Well, praise God. Thank you for sharing. What were some of the challenges other than this? You know, I appreciate the reality of the political in context in your country, limiting your capacity to serve. What were other challenges that the Lord helped you as a couple, young couple, overcome in that season? Karen Floor: Yes, well, you know, when we left for Mozambique, the country was still in war, but we were allowed to go on condition that we would stay on one of the islands and not on the mainland. So that was the solution. But the challenge was, you know, lack of communication and supply, a supply line. So it was very demanding, you know, to to adjust to living in those circumstances. But, you know, the Lord had a plan because we had to rely on local people for absolutely everything. And we didn't just learn the language and the culture; I think the Lord enabled us to, because we were so dependent, we learned how little we know very soon. And that made us, I think... open to advice and guidance from people around us, from local people around us. So yeah, we really praise God for that. He did a very formative work in us in those years. Woody McLendon: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. And that's a wonderful testimony of God's faithfulness in the midst of that and how He uses situations that are difficult to teach us important lessons. I'm curious, so along the way, God blessed you with sons, you have four. So tell me how or share a bit about how you and Sebastian stewarded and shepherded that balance of ministry and caring for your family in those years. Karen Floor: Well, Sebastian was there to facilitate a translation project and I was very committed to doing my bit to support him in that. I had originally thought that I would help at the translation desk, but then many things came up. Then I realized, unless these things are attended to, the translation won't happen. So I found myself attending to all sorts of support things and never getting to the translation desk. And I think it finally dawned on me, maybe that's actually God's plan for my life, that I won't end up being at the translation desk. I will be involved in behind the scenes support work, supporting in various ways. And I've made peace with that and I've really found joy in that because I found I could... I could manage my family responsibilities as well as support, you know, support roles quite comfortably. I didn't have to keep a 9-5 kind of desk routine around, know, the way the translation teams did. So that actually turned out to be a very good arrangement for me. And I would... I would do a few hours of homeschooling with the boys and then they would go off to play and then I would attend to various things, whether it was serving a meal for the people or taking care of some logistical issues that were needed. So I found I could balance the two quite well. Woody McLendon: I think one of the interesting observations I hear from folks who are thinking about ministry service are often concerned about their kids and how is this gonna work. So how did serving in Bible translation, living in a remote location, end up being a blessing for your family in ways you might not have initially thought? Karen Floor: Yeah, well, you know, we became part of a community and so the community does also help to raise your children. And we had that blessing, especially after the first six years, the community grew and we noticed that the children were doing well with friendships and with a lot of other role models in their lives besides just us parents. I think that it also gave our sons an opportunity to see faith being lived out. Again, not just by us, but by some of our colleagues and some of our friendships we were developing with local community neighbors and that. So I think that is something that has put a rich deposit in them. None of them have actually gone into Bible translation, so it's not as if that sold them on a ministry similar to ours, but we are thankful that they all were walking with the Lord. Woody McLendon: Amen. Amen. Well, praise God for that. So I want to get back to the next step in the chapter of your story after having chosen feeling you and Sebastian feeling that it was time to finish your ministry in Mozambique, returning to South Africa. What happened next? Karen Floor: Right, so we got back to South Africa, and of course, it was initially a big scramble to figure out how to live in South Africa after we'd been away for 20 years and the whole environment had changed since we had left. Praise God, the apartheid regime had fallen, and so, you know, there were many, many things that were different in church dynamics and in, you know, just society. So we were figuring out how to, you know, slot back into living in South Africa. But I think we were just a couple of months into being in South Africa when we learned that Wycliffe South Africa was urgently needing to find a new director. And they didn't have a successor lined up at the time. And so the board actually approached Sebastian and I and asked if we could just hold the fort while they did a search for a new director. Sebastian very nimbly pointed in my direction and suggested that I could do that. Keep the lights on, pay the bills, and do all the things that need to be done because he had a very full program of translation checking as a translation consultant. So he continued to travel to Mozambique and other countries as well to do translation checking. And then I just was able to give a little bit of time every week to holding the fort of Wycliffe South Africa while running the home and helping the kids settle into life in South Africa. But by the end of that first year that we were in South Africa, the board made a decision and approached us and asked if I would accept an appointment to be the director that they were looking for. God had graciously opened our eyes to seeing that spending just one year at home in South Africa wasn't going to be enough to attend to the needs that He had made us aware of, made us realize we needed to come back to South Africa. So we knew we couldn't go back at the end of that year. And so that was just a convergence of our family need, and then the need for Wycliffe to find a new director, and us being in a position to actually accept and do both of those things, that was a joy and that just made us realize, you know, God knew exactly what He was doing when He led us to back to South Africa, not only for our family, but also because of other things that were unfolding. In His foresight, He knew that there was a need there. So it all came together amazingly. I was blown away. I didn't expect to be able to find something to do in South Africa. So it was a real joy. A daunting joy. Woody McLendon: That's awesome. Karen Floor: I never thought I'd ever be director of Wycliffe South Africa. Woody McLendon: Yeah, so so how did you how did you and Sebastian prayerfully process that decision as you were reflecting? You know, it must have been a bit of a surprise to have the board come and say, hey, would you take this on full time now? Karen Floor: Yes, yes, it was a surprise and my first, of course, my first reaction was how would Sebastian feel about it? He had been the country director for SIL in Mozambique and now it was almost like switching roles and I felt a bit uncomfortable about that but he did not. He felt this is exactly what you're made for and he did not feel he was at all made for that. So he was very, very supportive and we just realised that, time and again, I'd found myself in a position where there was a gap that needed to be filled and if I was able to step in the gap and help, that brought a lot of joy to me and also it seemed to help. So this was just another one of those gaps that had opened up and the Lord was just pointing to it and saying, there you go, another gap for you to step into. Woody McLendon: Well, and and as you shared with me, this was a pretty big gap. I mean, you talked you touched a bit about the fact that when you all, you and Sebastian left for Mozambique, apartheid was the controlling regime; when you returned, that had ended. Tell me about what was happening in the life of Wycliffe South Africa at that season. What were you inheriting as a new director? Karen Floor: Yes, no, you're quite right, Woody. It was the daunting part of it was the realization that the way Wycliffe had been run and been led in the past could not continue. It had to change to, you know, to reflect the changes in the country as well. And so my first conversation with the board was about that. Unless we were all on the same page about committing ourselves to learning how we could go about changing the face of Wycliffe South Africa, diversifying, creating pathways that would make it possible for anyone in South Africa to become involved, that had to be our highest priority. But we weren't designed as an organization for that because of the limitations put on us during the apartheid regime. So it was a huge paradigm shift. We had to go through a complete organizational redesign and repurpose. We had to have a new purpose, a new wineskin, and it was a completely new season, and we didn't really even know where to start. So it was from day one, we're going to have to just depend on the Lord to show us, show the signposts, this way, that way, contact that person. I'm going to show you who you can call to walk you through this step of diversifying the board. And we needed help. We needed contacts. And but the Lord the Lord just proved to be so faithful, you know; He really did show step by step, and it wasn't easy, for sure, but it was certainly His time and His way. Woody McLendon: What were some of the biggest challenges you had to face? I mean, it it does sound like a profoundly transitional season. I I'm grateful for your willingness to accept and see that and and encourage the board and this and the team to embrace. But what were some of the biggest challenges in that season as you were getting started? Karen Floor: Mm. one of the biggest challenges was we were not connected to, you know, churches from all the different communities in South Africa. That was a huge challenge, so we needed help with that. And the Lord brought us into contact with the director of Campus Crusade, who was the first, you know, first non-white director in South Africa, and so he had walked that journey himself. And we asked if he'd be willing to coach us into how we could do that journey. And he was very gracious and agreed to show us some things that we would need to do differently. We were keen to learn, but we didn't want to just do it our own way. We needed help. So that was a big one. Another big challenge was there was a lot of fear in the membership about the change. You know, when something's always been done one way, it's very difficult to change without feeling some anxiety and feeling that maybe the way they've been cared for in the past will change. So that was a huge challenge. And then of course a lack of resources. We knew that to bring a much more diverse membership on board and staff on board, we were going to need to trust the Lord for new ways, that He would provide in new ways. Those were challenging times, I must say. I'll just mention those. I think those were the big ones. Woody McLendon: So how in your leadership, I mean, you've talked about trusting the Lord for the next steps. What did that look like in practice for you? I mean, and you were in your leadership, it sounds like you were prayerfully looking for people who could counsel you, but what steps did you take to help steward? I mean, you had the board, the leadership, as well as the the the members and the larger church connections. How did God equip you and guide you in those specific steps in those early years? Karen Floor: There was a couple who came in three times a week to help out in the Unfortunately, there wasn't much we could do because we of a lack of resources. We spent a lot of that time praying together and asking the Lord to open our eyes to new doors and new opportunities. And one morning, I remember we were praying and all of a sudden it dawned on us that Wycliffe South Africa was approaching its 40th anniversary. And we just suddenly realized this is a very significant thing. This is a gift. We can leverage that to make something special about this big transition. And we had Yeah, we actually designed a new logo and the logo was inspired by Habakkuk, where the whole earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. We used that as our theme for the anniversary to really celebrate the first four decades, the waves of new participation in the Bible translation movement, where 40 years ago, South Africans had not been able to participate. 40 years ago, they began to have that opportunity to participate. And there were just many people joining at the time, and churches getting on board to support and send people to Bible translation kinds of assignments, mainly with SIL. And so there was a lot to celebrate and we designed the program for that anniversary celebration to include a great deal of celebration for all that God had done in the first 40 years, four decades, but then also used it to launch Wycliffe South Africa into a new season of responding to Macedonian calls that were popping up all around us in South Africa and also neighboring countries. And we realized we had an opportunity to respond and become part of something that God was doing in our country and not just continue recruiting people, but we could do more than that. We could also get involved in language communities who had been swept under the carpet during their apartheid years. Their identity had been ignored. And so this was a wonderful opportunity to launch Wycliffe South Africa into a new season of growth. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. That's awesome. Now now unpack that Macedonian call a bit, because I think that's also an interesting piece of this puzzle. God was working through this transition and these communities, as you mentioned, that were kind of swept under. How how did that start showing up literally on your doorstep as an opportunity and need? Karen Floor: Well, we hadn't been in South Africa for long when we heard that language communities were knocking at Wycliffe's door because, you know, on our website and on our front door it said Wycliffe Bible Translators, and so you know, it's a logical thing for a community who is looking for a Bible translation to come knocking at our door. But we kept pointing them in the direction of SIL and the Bible Society and others because at that time Wycliffe was only recruiting. We weren't actually involved in the translation side of things at all. But it became clear to us that everybody was overextended and nobody could respond. And so in a meeting with everybody else who had also been approached by these communities, it was decided collectively by SIL, Bible Society, if Wycliffe South Africa Board would be willing to provide its... know, covering for an exploration of what exactly do these communities need, what would it actually take to respond to them, then that would be very helpful for the other organizations to at least know what's going on. But if we could, if we could do the work of responding to the communities and going to meet with them and learning more. So that's where it started. We started by responding, you know, just going to find out more. And when we brought the report back, the other organizations said, well, we really don't have capacity. Do you think you might have some capacity to respond and, you know, in some way, because maybe another season, but right now we cannot respond at all. And so we found ourselves, well, do we get engaged in Bible translation now or just tell these groups wait another 20 years or so? Yeah, that's when we became one of the Wycliffes with language programs. Woody McLendon: So obviously you said yes, but that sounds like it must have been Karen Floor: Yes. Woody McLendon: its own challenge. Share about that for just a moment. I'm curious. How did you you Karen Floor: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: and the board and the staff come to that place of saying yes? Karen Floor: I'm so thankful to the Lord for the board that He brought together because many of the board members were from some of these communities themselves and they were able to open our eyes to the fact that the way to really respond would be to acknowledge that they are oral societies, you know, that an oral translation would really be the way to have impact with them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't also have a written translation, but the place to start would not be wait until people can read and write, but get going with oral translation. And so, yeah, the board decided that is what we would do. We would get involved in... I suppose we thought it was just an entry-level strategy until others who did whole Bible kinds of translation would be ready. But we got involved in, you know, with these communities translating story sets to give them a whole redemption panorama from creation, to the first coming of Jesus, to the second coming, I mean right from Genesis to Revelation, key passages that would give them the gospel overview of the gospel story. So that's what we got going with and we did have a number of SIL people who had also found that they had been tapped on the shoulder by the Lord and similar season of life and had come back to South Africa. So we had a number of people who could actually help with translation work. Woody McLendon: Wow, wow, what a what an awesome story. So I'm curious, you're you're obviously not just you're not a caretaker. You're stepping in to lead significantly in a major transition. Who who and how did God continue to equip you as a leader through this season of growth and and really like transformational growth for Wycliffe South Africa? How did that process work for you personally as a leader? Karen Floor: Well, I think the board chair was the founding board chair and he was the one who I had met when I did that probe course back in my, I wasn't even 20 yet, you know, and he was still Woody McLendon: Oh my! Karen Floor: the board chair and his encouragement along the way over the years had always been really significant and he was so encouraging during these first years and the fact that he and the rest of the board said yes to these Macedonian calls and said we don't know where the resources will come from but let's take it step by step and we're right behind you. So we became a team, we weren't alienated from each other. It would never have worked if the board had one idea and I had another idea. So for me it was the board and then fact that Sebastian and I were able to to process this together and that was very meaningful. So I think that was hugely significant, Woody. The other thing was when we realized we could really do with some help in redesigning how Wycliffe South Africa is built and we need a new engine room. How do we go about that? And that is when our paths crossed with Seed Company's Growth Partners. They weren't called Growth Partners at the time, but it was such a huge relief when they stepped into the room. Totally unassuming, unprescriptive, but there to help. And so I had that enormous privilege to be, you know, as a new director of a few years and realizing this is way bigger than what we can do on our own, to have people like Maria Vega and Henry Huang and Glenys Sweetman come alongside, and it was just a gift from the Lord really. Their encouragement and their skill to guide and advise, it just made an enormous difference. Woody McLendon: Praise God. And it's wonderful for me in these conversations to hear these stories and understand of connections between different leaders and how God works. Earlier on, you shared about a radio interview that was a a critical kind of point of reflection or clarity for you in in this new season for Wycliffe South Africa. I'd like you to touch on that for a moment Karen Floor: Hmm. Woody McLendon: and what you learned. Karen Floor: Yeah, I remember it so vividly. You know, as we had now launched into language programs, you know, partnering with language communities, we also realized we needed to be more proactive in mobilizing resources for the ministry in South Africa. And that wasn't an easy thing. But we were trying to make the ministry known and looking for opportunities, and one day I found myself on a radio interview and I was sharing about how the Lord had led us with these Macedonian calls and now, you know, here is an opportunity for South Africans to get involved, and become part of what God is doing in these communities. I'll never forget the awkward moment when the interviewer asked me, well, that's very interesting, you know, because we know that there are other organizations, I mean we all know the Bible Society in South Africa and they also do Bible translation, so do you actually talk to each other and do things together? Very innocent question but it put me on the spot because I couldn't actually honestly answer at that moment that yes, we do, we you know, we collaborate, we talk to each other, we see how we can complement one other's efforts to serve these communities that we all find ourselves in South Africa to serve. I could not answer that honestly. I don't remember how I dodged the question, but I could not answer honestly, yes, we do. So of course I went away from that interview knowing that has to change. I never ever want to be in a radio interview or any kind of conversation where that question comes my way and I'm not able to say, yes, we are collaborating, we are doing this together. So that started another journey. Woody McLendon: Yeah, so tell me about that for a a moment or two here. This is great. Karen Floor: Yeah, we started approaching the leaders of other organizations, discovered that there were six organizations in South Africa involved in Bible translation. Not all of them were only focused on South Africa. Some were focused regionally, some were focused globally, some were focused on the deaf only. But everybody had some stake in Bible translation in South Africa. It took a while. A lot of, you know, skepticism. Well, what are we really, what could we possibly do together? Very unlikely that we could ever do anything together. We're so different. But finally, we were able to all get around the table, and we decided there's one thing we can do together. And even if that's the only thing, that would be good. And that would be to come up with a collaborative statement, a statement of intent that we would commit to collaboration rather than competition, looking for ways to remain relationally connected rather than allow rivalries to develop. And so along those lines, relationship versus rivalry, collaboration versus competitive. We believed we could formulate a statement that we could all share if ever we found ourselves in a radio interview like that or in a church or anywhere where that question might be put. We would be ready to all answer with that same answer. And so that's where it started. It took us several months to develop that statement, which gives you a clue as to how difficult collaboration is. But we did manage Woody McLendon: Exactly. Karen Floor: to do it, and it was a great joy. And you know, after that, everybody felt when we asked ourselves, are we done now? Do we just stop meeting now? Because for several months we'd been meeting every month to try and chisel away at this statement of intent. And everybody said, no, we mustn't stop meeting. We must continue meeting because now we've got the connection. Who knows what else might happen, and so let's keep meeting and asking God to show us what else can we do besides just making up this statement of collaboration. And so a few years later here we are; we still we still meet regularly, all the the six organizations and yeah, it's just we just praise the Lord for that. Woody McLendon: Well, and there is a there actually is a structural connection point now, correct? With LuminAfrica? Karen Floor: Yes. Woody McLendon: And that's and praise God for that. So thank you for your ongoing leadership. This is awesome. I I have a few more questions, but I want to take a moment and kind of shift gears just for a bit of fun. This has been a delight, and I really appreciate all Karen Floor: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: that you have shared and your transparency and your heart. But just also just to get to know you a little bit better, I like to throw in a few fun and silly questions, maybe get a smile or a laugh. So curious, for your family, tell me something that you guys have together that's a fun or silly tradition to that you you all do. Karen Floor: Well, we love it. I mean, we don't have sons living at home anymore, but we still do it as a couple. But it started when our sons were in their teens, you know. We would invite people over for dinner. We would make homemade pizza because there were no pizza shops down the corner. And we would play a certain game to break the ice. And the game was called Up and Down the River. So something you need to know about my husband: he always tells people, well, you know you get different kinds of games. You get high brain, low fun games and you get high fun, low brain games. And he said Up and Down the River's a bit of a both. So Woody McLendon: Mm-hmm. Karen Floor: it takes a bit of skill. So of course that puts everybody a bit on edge, but then it's really very simple game but right at the end you can only win the game if you are willing to take this one risk, and that is when you hold the card up on your forehead and only everybody else can see what's on your card, you can't see. You see everybody else's card, they see yours, you don't see yours, and you have to make your decision based on what you don't know. And we Woody McLendon: That sounds great. Karen Floor: just absolutely love that. You get triple points if you play your card right. But of course, what are the chances that you would because you don't even know what card you have? So it is great fun and we've had a lot of really fun times. Even, I mean, it's not meant to be intimidating at all, but it's just an icebreaker, you know. And people always Woody McLendon: That's great. Well, thank you. Karen Floor: ask when can we play that again? Woody McLendon: Oh, good. Wow. Well fun, fun. So I understand you you work from home, the home office. I'm curious, tell me something that that you see in your office that makes you smile when you look at it. Karen Floor: I do love looking at this big painting that I have that somebody gave me. She's an artist and she did some finger painting with oils and nobody bought the painting. She's a professional artist and so she asked if I'd like to have it. So I thought, wow, this is done by a real artist; why wouldn't I have it? But I love it because it's a tree. It's a tree and you can imagine using your finger to paint a tree. No problem. But what I love about it, Woody, is that the roots are just as long as the rest of the tree. I call it my roots and fruits tree, and it always reminds me to remain rooted in God's Word and His ways because there will never be any fruit unless the roots go deep in the right way. I love that painting, and it's just fun though because it's a finger painting so it has a very different look about it. It's something very childlike and yet very coordinated and beautiful colors of the fruit. Woody McLendon: Wow, thank you. What an awesome an awesome thing and a wonderful to reminder to have. So tell me something unique about you that most people wouldn't know. Karen Floor: Well, maybe it's a silly thing as well, but I love hiking and that's probably a lot of people know already, but one thing... I really, really like doing a circuit route. I don't like doing a there and back route. So whenever we go for a hike, if I can find a route or a path that looks like it will take you back another way than the way that you came, that's what I really try and go for. But it's endless conversations at the dinner table sometimes and on the hike itself. But yeah, I just don't know, I just have a preference for a circuit route rather than a there and back. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Woody McLendon: Like to keep the discovery process going all the way through, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you like to relax other than hiking, w Karen Floor: Mm. Woody McLendon: are there other things that you enjoy doing to relax? Karen Floor: I like putting worship music on, and yeah, I like doing housework while I'm listening to worship music and it almost becomes a housekeeping dance, you know. Woody McLendon: So tell me how many languages you speak. Karen Floor: Well, I don't think I speak that many very well, but I do speak English and Afrikaans. Afrikaans is one of the languages of South Africa. It's kind of a Dutch-Malay Creole. And of course, we learned Portuguese when we were in Mozambique and Kimwani the language community we were with. I think I'm very rusty on the Kimwani now. I haven't spoken Kimwani for 10 years. And then I'm still trying to learn French even though we didn't go to Côte d'Ivoire. Woody McLendon: Well, good, good. So when you listen or read the Bible, which language do you prefer and why? Karen Floor: I think I'm most comfortable in English. That was my home language growing up. So think it is the language I'm most comfortable with. Woody McLendon: Good, but it sounds like you have experience in and several can appreciate them. So good. Thank you. Thank you. Those were great answers. Really interesting and fun. So that's a delight. So in the last couple of minutes of our conversation, I'd like to kind of zoom out to the Bible translation movement as a whole. God has equipped you and used you in some really unique and and important ways, and I would touch on collaboration and seeing that as an unfolding thing. But I'm curious, as you look at the movement at large, you Karen Floor: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: have connections through organizational development of your own, board service, what things encourage you the most that you see today? Karen Floor: Well, I'm really encouraged, Woody, to see how collaboration has become such a big thing on the radar for Bible translation, and not just the translation side, but the scripture impact side. I really take so much joy in hearing organizations really challenging themselves to how can we shift gears, how can we do some things differently to ensure that the Scriptures will really have an impact in people's lives? And I know that a lot of that is the Holy Spirit's work, right? But there are things we can do differently. And that's a recurring theme that I hear a lot is how can we do something differently to make sure that this has a real it really takes root, it really hits the spot, you know, in people's lives? And so I think those two things are just growing themes, you know, collaborative conversations and conversations about what can we do differently for this to make a real difference in people's lives. So not so much, you know, thinking of the product, but everything else that goes, you know, the process and the partnerships and even the style and the methodology, you know, those are things people are thinking seriously about without throwing quality out the window, really taking it seriously that, you know, there are things that can be done differently if we want to see different results. Woody McLendon: So is there Is there some specific Scripture impact thing that you're seeing that is particularly comes to mind, or are there just a number of activities happening in that realm? I'm curious. Karen Floor: I love that organizations are putting Scripture engagement at the front end and it's not afterwards. It's becoming more and more an integrated process, putting Scripture engagement integrated with the actual translation work. And I think oral Bible translation does lend itself to that very much. But you know, you hear lots of conversations nowadays about multimodal translation, and so it's a lot of things happening all at the same time so that people are engaged with Scripture from the beginning of the translation process right to the end, and it kind of gets plugged into the life of the church and the life of the community, so not compartmentalized. So yeah, I just see a lot of those conversations happening. I know about 10 years ago, oral Bible translation was still very new, but I think that it has really grown in momentum and is recognized as a real piece of the puzzle of Scripture impact that we don't want to lose sight of. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. So you shared what encourages you. What remaining challenges do you see that we need to be focused on together in this coming season of ministry? Karen Floor: That's a more difficult one I guess. I think that organizations are still... not feeling they are where they want to be, to really bear the fruit that they would like to bear in their ministries. So of course that's close to my heart, the organizational strengthening side of things. But I do think it continues to be a big challenge. And so wonderful that there seems to be more and more people involved in addressing that. But I think a big part of that is what your focus is, is leadership development. It is, you know, it's raising up leaders. It's talking about leadership in ways that are going to really equip leaders to go the long haul. And I think there's wonderfully exciting things happening in that space, but I think it is still a big challenge. So I'm thrilled that you're focused on that Woody. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. I'm I'm touched, and it it is a privilege for me and in my own leadership journey the thing that I found most encouraging and helpful were Karen Floor: Hmm. Woody McLendon: other leaders who are willing to share their stories. What did they learn? How did God guide them? What happened in the face of crises? So this for me is a joy to be able to have conversations with you and others, again to draw out those lessons and I've I've learned quite a bit from each one and already from you today, some things that I just Karen Floor: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: really am grateful for. So as you think about speaking to leaders, Karen Floor: Mm. Woody McLendon: this is a goal to talk to current current and future leaders. What Karen Floor: Hmm. Woody McLendon: would you say if you could distill your experience, sense of wisdom, what would you want to encourage leaders today or leaders who God may be preparing to serve in Bible translation in the future? What's on your heart? Karen Floor: Well, I think on my heart is to really not worry so much about positional leadership, but to think about the preparation for leadership is really it starts with the heart, you know. And I'm always inspired by the Psalm, I think it's Psalm 72, where says, David led with a heart of integrity and with skillful hands. And I love how the integrity of heart comes first, and then the skillful hands comes next. They're both important, but without integrity of heart, no matter how much skill of hands, there will never be good leadership. There will never be the kind of leadership that will bear the fruit that God is looking for. So my encouragement to the younger generation aspiring to leadership and maybe sensing God calling them to leadership is not to worry about whether they find themselves in a leadership role or not. That will happen in good time. But to really allow the Lord to do whatever work is needed at the heart level. So I like to encourage young leaders to be a worshipper first, then you'll be a worker. I think that's so important. For me, that was totally transformational to see that that's what God wanted in the first place, to learn that from Him. And then for others who have been in leadership for a long time, I would say we need to make space for younger leaders more. If we can find more opportunities where they can serve. Maybe they won't be the king of Israel yet. Maybe they're still looking after sheep. Maybe they, you know, but they can lead in significant ways even before they come into positional leadership. It's such a joy every time we come across younger leaders who are hungry to learn, hungry to serve, eager to serve. So we need to make space for them. Woody McLendon: Wonderful. Thank you. These are really wonderful insights. And I am really touched and appreciate so much your sharing today. So thank you. Thank you so much, Karen. So I want to turn to those of you watching or listening. If this episode, this story of Karen's life and her journey encouraged you in some way, I ask that you would share it with one other leader or one other leader to be who might be encouraged to hear her journey. So thank you for sticking with us through this entire conversation and thanks for those of you participating and sharing about the this podcast. And thank you, Karen, again and pray each of you would have a a blessed and fruitful season. And and I love this picture staying rooted in order to bear good fruit. So let us do that together. Thank you. Karen Floor: Thank you for having me, Woody. It was a joy. Woody McLendon: Well well, thank you. It's a great pleasure.