Latest / GH Connects Lounge / Fraizer Campbell Ep5: The Sir Alex Call That Sent Him to Spurs

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Fraizer Campbell Ep5: The Sir Alex Call That Sent Him to Spurs · GH Connects Lounge

• 0:06
  Fraser Campbell, over 400 appearances across your career.
• 0:09
  You represented England at Wembley.
• 0:12
  But before we discuss any of that, I want to go right back to the start.
• 0:16
  You were born in Hudsfield.
• 0:17
  Yeah.
• 0:19
  What was Fraser Campbell like as a child?
• 0:23
  I grew up, obviously, early 2000s.
• 0:25
  No, I'm joking.
• 0:26
  80s.
• 0:26
  I was born in the 80s.
• 0:29
  I was just a typical kid in the 90s, building tree swings, staying out till dark, sprinting home before I got told off by my mum and dad and constantly had a football with me.
• 0:42
  Yeah.
• 0:43
  All beginnings, but all I ever did was play football before the internet.
• 0:46
  Yeah.
• 0:48
  Used to play out.
• 0:49
  That was it.
• 0:50
  Who inspired you growing up as a child?
• 0:55
  So obviously football-wise, I think John Barnes was the first player I used to look at.
• 1:01
  And I think he looks similar to me.
• 1:04
  He plays football.
• 1:05
  I love football.
• 1:06
  And that was my first person to be inspired by.
• 1:11
  But then...
• 1:12
  Closer than that, obviously my dad was a huge influence on me, not because he was a superstar, because we all look up to his dads.
• 1:21
  And my uncle, who, you know, we grew up in Huddersfield.
• 1:25
  They grew up in Huddersfield as well.
• 1:26
  And he, long story short, he ended up being, he runs Hey Dude, which is Crocs now.
• 1:32
  Okay.
• 1:33
  He was the president of Adidas North America a few years ago.
• 1:35
  Yeah.
• 1:37
  And even when I was little, I was driving a Porsche and I was thinking, you know, this guy's doing really well for himself.
• 1:43
  And I saw how hard he works, how hard my dad worked.
• 1:45
  And yeah, so it was my dad and my uncle and then, you know, John Barnes, Andy Cole, Paul Gascoigne, they were my footballing heroes.
• 1:57
  That's a crazy link to have there that I have no idea about.
• 2:01
  What about the team you supported?
• 2:04
  The reason I ask this is obviously you grew up in Huddersfield.
• 2:08
  We know your association with Man United.
• 2:09
  Yeah.
• 2:10
  But who did you support?
• 2:11
  So, like I said, John Barnes was my first player.
• 2:15
  Theoretically, I supported Liverpool, but I never really supported a team.
• 2:19
  It was just players that I used to watch.
• 2:23
  So obviously, he was at Liverpool.
• 2:25
  Andy Cole was at Newcastle.
• 2:28
  But Andy Cole moved to Man United around the same time I got signed to the academy.
• 2:34
  So I think that's where it changed for me.
• 2:36
  My dad's a Leeds fan.
• 2:38
  So I've got my dad's a Leeds fan.
• 2:40
  One of my uncles is a Bradford City fan and my other uncle's a Man United fan.
• 2:46
  So we've got a variation of football loyalties.
• 2:51
  But when I'd sign for United, we used to get Champions League tickets and Premier League tickets to come and watch.
• 2:57
  And that back in the day where I'd come and they'd be singing the songs for 90 minutes and it was like a whole, just me and my dad over...
• 3:05
  the smell of the burger stands, the night games, the lights, Champions League music.
• 3:11
  I've seen Brazilian Ronaldo.
• 3:14
  I've seen Batiste Dutra.
• 3:15
  I've seen Del Piero.
• 3:18
  So that's where my love for Man United really started, Champions League bright lights.
• 3:24
  Were you one of the singers?
• 3:25
  Yeah, I was singing my heart away.
• 3:28
  Because I was only 10 at the time.
• 3:30
  I don't care about people looking at you and how you sound.
• 3:34
  It's just me and my dad enjoying the football.
• 3:37
  And that era in the 90s, dominating, battering teams.
• 3:41
  It was beautiful.
• 3:43
  Yeah, no, I love that.
• 3:44
  I love that.
• 3:45
  And you mentioned that you joined Man United then at 10 years old, the academy.
• 3:50
  How does a 10-year-old from Huddersfield
• 3:53
  Going Man United.
• 3:54
  Yeah, exactly.
• 3:56
  And at the time, like now, there's kids from Huddersfield that are playing for City, United, Liverpool, Leeds.
• 4:04
  The scouting range, they're picking them up from everywhere.
• 4:06
  But back when in the 90s, it was unheard of.
• 4:12
  Like a kid from Yorkshire coming over to play at United, and it was scouts.
• 4:18
  So the scouts had come across.
• 4:19
  It was probably my dad.
• 4:20
  My dad's really strong-minded.
• 4:24
  They had Huddersfield Town were looking at me and they thought I wasn't up to scratch.
• 4:30
  So my dad spoke to different scouts in the area and Mike Glennie, who his name was, was a scout, came over to Huddersfield and watched me play in a few games.
• 4:40
  And then...
• 4:41
  It was my first proper season, actually.
• 4:43
  I think I joined a team in November, and he came in January, February time to watch me, and he invited me for a trial down at Littleton Road in April, like a two-week trial, and ended up signing at the end of it.
• 4:58
  How did that feel when you got told?
• 5:01
  I think at first, like...
• 5:04
  It's all, like, new and exciting.
• 5:07
  You get to the training ground.
• 5:08
  They give you your kit.
• 5:09
  You put it on the Man United shirt on.
• 5:11
  It was the... You remember the golden, green and yellow one?
• 5:14
  Yeah.
• 5:15
  And the one with the strings and collars.
• 5:18
  Like, this is...
• 5:19
  I've seen this on TV.
• 5:20
  This is mint.
• 5:21
  Yeah.
• 5:22
  But...
• 5:24
  obviously you're excited and it's good, but I don't think at 10, 11, I was thinking, well, this is the first steps to be getting towards where Andy Cole is.
• 5:34
  I just thought, it's my night, I'm going to be playing for my night of kids, and it was all fun and...
• 5:39
  And exciting.
• 5:40
  And I think that's how football should be at that age.
• 5:44
  The coaches, Paul McGuinness, Tony Wheeler, and types of people made sure that it was fun, but you knew that you were representing the biggest club in the world.
• 5:53
  And that was, for my kid from Waddersfield, that was just meant.
• 5:59
  What was it like leaving home at that age?
• 6:05
  Now I look back at it, it must have been a lot, but because you're young, you just go with the flow.
• 6:11
  I didn't really think of it like that at the time.
• 6:13
  I've spent three or four nights a week over in Manchester, plus a game.
• 6:19
  So playing out with my mates in my state just went away.
• 6:24
  But I was happy because I was going to do something I enjoyed more.
• 6:27
  I was with my mates at school, and then I'd come home,
• 6:31
  I'll have my tea in the car, try and do my homework in the car, drive to Manchester, get back late, and then just repeat.
• 6:37
  And I enjoyed it because I think mainly because there was no internet.
• 6:43
  There's no other distractions.
• 6:44
  I was just football obsessed.
• 6:46
  Played football at school.
• 6:47
  And then I went to Manchester and played football with the best kids in the country.
• 6:52
  So it was...
• 6:53
  I didn't see it as a burden.
• 6:55
  I just thought this is the norm for me.
• 6:58
  Yeah, that's crazy to hear as well.
• 7:01
  But who was the best player then that was coming through the academy at that time with you?
• 7:06
  In my team?
• 7:07
  Yeah.
• 7:09
  Plus, I was there from 10.
• 7:10
  I came across so many good players.
• 7:12
  Obviously, Johnny Evans was in my team.
• 7:15
  Darren Gibson was in my team.
• 7:17
  Danny Simpson was in my team.
• 7:20
  Ryan Shaw, Cross.
• 7:23
  Gerard Pique, Giuseppe Rossi came later down the line.
• 7:26
  I crossed paths with so many talented footballers.
• 7:30
  Fabian Brandy was the year below me.
• 7:32
  Danny Welick.
• 7:33
  Yeah.
• 7:34
  I remember Fabian got Barcelona, we're trying to sign him, when he was young and he didn't end up going and whatnot.
• 7:40
  But, yeah, there was so much talent in the teams, a couple of years below us, a couple of years above us.
• 7:46
  It was just...
• 7:47
  We all felt like tightly knit family because sometimes you'd play up and play down.
• 7:52
  Some kids would play up.
• 7:53
  So it was, yeah, I speak to a lot of them still to this day.
• 7:56
  But there's Ravel Morrison's in and around that.
• 8:01
  There's loads of talent.
• 8:02
  Because if you remember, back in the 90s, we were the biggest club definitely in England, potentially in the world.
• 8:10
  Yeah, well, a load of those names went on to have unbelievable careers.
• 8:13
  Half-decent careers.
• 8:15
  Half-decent.
• 8:15
  Yeah, it was okay.
• 8:17
  Why was someone like Ravel Morrison so special?
• 8:22
  He was just raw talent.
• 8:25
  The type of kid that, you know, obviously I think you probably read a lot of reports when he was older.
• 8:31
  He'd missed training to go play five-side at goals with his mates because that's what he was doing as a youngster, his training and stuff.
• 8:38
  They just liked...
• 8:40
  That, what's the word, like maverick type of player on his day, unbelievable, but you just have to make sure he's in the building.
• 8:49
  But yeah, he was super talented.
• 8:51
  It just came naturally to him.
• 8:54
  I tried not to coach too much of that maverick out of him.
• 9:00
  But, you know, he was unbelievable and he should have had a longer, better career.
• 9:05
  But, you know, it's upsetting, those type of stories, because he's missed out.
• 9:09
  Yeah, for sure.
• 9:10
  And we've missed out.
• 9:11
  And we see a lot of this today where the coaches are coaching this raw talent out of players.
• 9:16
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  And you just kind of wish, and especially people of our age, you wish there were still players there.
• 9:23
  They were like that.
• 9:23
  Yeah, Mavericks.
• 9:25
  So you see it now and it's all very regimented.
• 9:29
  You playing this role, you do this, you do that.
• 9:31
  Whereas I remember when I was in the U4 team, if you're playing three across the front, I think it's 4-4-2, front four, if I ended up right wing, left wing, in the 10, up front, it was fine as long as somebody else filled in your spot.
• 9:46
  So it was like fluid, fluid.
• 9:48
  Did the centre-backs fancy going on a run and having a shot?
• 9:52
  Yeah, why not?
• 9:53
  You very rarely see stuff like that now.
• 9:55
  And I think it's like more patterns of play and procedure rather than go out there and just enjoy your football.
• 10:01
  You're all good footballers, all got talent, but you need that little bit extra that can win a game or decide a game.
• 10:08
  So it is upsetting to see sometimes, but it's football, isn't it?
• 10:12
  It's going to change.
• 10:13
  Yeah, for sure.
• 10:14
  So your first real experience of senior football actually takes you outside of England.
• 10:20
  So you're still a teenager and United send you to Royal Antwerp in Belgium on loan.
• 10:24
  Yeah.
• 10:25
  You scored 24 goals in 38 appearances, which is unbelievable.
• 10:29
  Is that right?
• 10:29
  Yeah.
• 10:31
  But how did you find out that you were going to Belgium?
• 10:34
  So I was sat in digs.
• 10:36
  Obviously, we all lived in digs in Manchester and sat having breakfast with my family, my adopted family.
• 10:44
  And it's breaking news.
• 10:46
  Manchester United sending youth players.
• 10:48
  I was thinking, oh, who's this?
• 10:51
  Johnny Evans.
• 10:52
  Johnny's going.
• 10:53
  Darren Gibson.
• 10:54
  Danny Simpson.
• 10:56
  And then one more, Fraser Campbell.
• 10:58
  I was like, what?
• 11:00
  So I'll do it when my Diggs lady says...
• 11:04
  Oh, you did tell us you went to Belgium.
• 11:06
  I said, honestly, K, this is the first I'm hearing it myself.
• 11:09
  Did not have a clue what was going on.
• 11:13
  So, yeah, I found out I was moving to Belgium on that yellow bar at the bottom of Sky Sports News.
• 11:17
  That's unbelievable.
• 11:18
  Yeah, it was...
• 11:20
  I mean, I think I was 17 at the time.
• 11:23
  You know, it's just one of them.
• 11:25
  You just go in with a floor.
• 11:26
  They want you to play there, you go there.
• 11:27
  But it was a change of scenery, to say the least.
• 11:32
  Did you even want to go?
• 11:36
  I mean, I didn't wake up in the morning and think, you know what, I fancy going to Belgium tonight.
• 11:41
  But, you know, I wasn't against it.
• 11:42
  I think what made it a lot easier is that I was going with the four other lads.
• 11:48
  Warren Joyce was out there.
• 11:50
  Andy Welsh was out there.
• 11:50
  We're linked to United at the time.
• 11:52
  So it was...
• 11:54
  It was more of just a different team underneath the Man United umbrella kind of thing.
• 12:00
  And it felt like we're at home, even though we were in Belgium.
• 12:04
  So it was a great experience.
• 12:06
  I think I passed my driving test in March, and by September, I'm driving other side of the road in a foreign country.
• 12:13
  Yeah.
• 12:15
  um so it was a life experience cooking for ourselves washing for ourselves and having no one to answer to what time we're getting in at night what time we're going to bed just really yeah yeah it was it was fun it was a lot of growing up and we had a lot of good times there but you know we like you said we got the taste of that men's football um at Antwerp at the time
• 12:39
  struggle a little bit.
• 12:41
  Sometimes the players were getting paid on time and they'd be kicking off and for us, it was just, you're at Man United, you're getting paid on the first and everyone got paid and it was just an arm.
• 12:51
  But then you go outside of that.
• 12:53
  This is real football where people's livelihoods depend on it.
• 12:58
  So then you've got to try and take that into account and make sure you're doing everything you can to help not only yourself, but your teammates out because they might,
• 13:07
  need these wins more than you know.
• 13:11
  Yeah, because Royal Antwerp at that time was an affiliate club of Man United.
• 13:15
  So we were sending players out on loan all the time.
• 13:18
  Something to do with work permit.
• 13:20
  I think you could get a work permit quicker through Belgium or something like that.
• 13:24
  I actually wasn't aware of that.
• 13:25
  But I think as well, getting that senior football, it forced you to grow up, clearly, with everything you said there.
• 13:31
  I'm still a bit of a child now.
• 13:34
  Did you come back to Man United after that thinking, I'm ready?
• 13:39
  I came back with a spring in my step.
• 13:43
  I wanted to play in the first team, yeah.
• 13:46
  And I'd done really well out on lawn.
• 13:48
  And I thought, you know, the next natural step is, you know, to train with the first team regularly and maybe get some minutes, maybe a pre-season.
• 13:56
  I don't think I looked at the team and thought, Van Nistelrooy, step aside.
• 14:02
  I'm raising because obviously when I was there, Solskjaer was still about Van Nistelrooy, Luis Saha, Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez.
• 14:13
  So the finishing was like top, top level.
• 14:16
  So just being around that group of players for me was sensational.
• 14:20
  But...
• 14:21
  realistically was I going to push one of them guys out to play regularly?
• 14:25
  Probably not.
• 14:26
  But to be a little bit closer, yeah, I felt like I was closer to that after that.
• 14:31
  What was your confidence like at that age?
• 14:33
  Because everything you've just said there, this is someone coming off the back of 24 goals and 38 appearances.
• 14:39
  I know you've mentioned some decent names, don't you?
• 14:42
  Half decent.
• 14:43
  Some half decent players.
• 14:44
  What's your confidence levels like?
• 14:47
  Super high.
• 14:48
  As a youngster, you know, you hear people like Ronaldo getting called arrogant.
• 14:53
  And I think a lot of...
• 14:55
  players need to have a certain level of arrogance.
• 14:59
  Otherwise, imagine I walk into that session and I look around at the names that I've mentioned and I've got to try and better some of them.
• 15:06
  If I don't believe that I'm anywhere near them, then I've got no chance.
• 15:11
  I think I was an arrogant, in a good way, 18, 19-year-old, and it helped me to believe that, yeah, maybe I'm not as good as these guys yet or not had a career that they've had yet, but...
• 15:25
  I'm at the start of mine and I'm going to try and take as much as I can from these guys, try and, you know, force my way into the first team or play regular first team football somewhere.
• 15:36
  Well, instead, they decided to loan you out again.
• 15:38
  So you went to Hull City in the championship in 2007.
• 15:42
  You scored 15 goals to help Hull reach the Premier League for the first time in the club's history.
• 15:48
  Why did going to Hull work out so well for you?
• 15:52
  Honestly, I couldn't tell you why.
• 15:54
  I turned up there when my dad went to meet Phil Brown.
• 15:58
  And at the time, there'd been a load of flood, flooding in Hull.
• 16:04
  So a lot of people's houses were flooded.
• 16:07
  So the council put everyone in hotels.
• 16:11
  Obviously, there's only a certain amount of hotels.
• 16:13
  So it started, I don't know if they were, government were paying them to rent caravans.
• 16:18
  So down some certain street, she'd drive down the street and it was just full of caravans.
• 16:22
  People moved out of the house with water damage, living in caravans.
• 16:26
  So I'm driving around thinking, what the hell is this place?
• 16:30
  A nice warm welcome.
• 16:31
  So yeah, so then I'm living in the hotel.
• 16:34
  And at first it was fine.
• 16:37
  But then I played my first game against Watford away.
• 16:41
  Played against Danny Shittu.
• 16:42
  I was like, what is this?
• 16:45
  And then I played my first game at the stadium in Hull on Sky against Barnsley.
• 16:51
  Scored two.
• 16:53
  And from that moment then I could not live in the hotel anymore.
• 16:56
  Yeah.
• 16:56
  Knocking on my door, oh, well done, last night.
• 16:59
  How are you thinking for the next game?
• 17:01
  Blah, blah, blah.
• 17:02
  Ten minutes later, somebody else.
• 17:03
  Can I get a picture with you?
• 17:04
  Just random people.
• 17:05
  Just because, obviously, everyone, you find with football, certain cities, the majority of them, the private cities, the football is the main thing.
• 17:16
  So anyone connected to the football and you're doing well, the people of Hull were fantastic, brilliant.
• 17:23
  I got...
• 17:25
  You couldn't get a moment's rest because I was living in the hotel with all the people that obviously doubt the house.
• 17:32
  But, nah, it was a great experience.
• 17:36
  But to answer your question, what was the thing that made it work?
• 17:39
  I'm not sure.
• 17:40
  It does sound like something that wouldn't make it work.
• 17:42
  It would really frustrate you.
• 17:43
  But it was like...
• 17:45
  But visually, yeah, it sounds like it, but the connection with the people was there.
• 17:51
  Something about my connection with Phil Brown and my teammates, they're all a little bit older.
• 17:58
  Obviously, I was young, let's take, and wanted to learn.
• 18:01
  Everything just clicked from that second game at the KC Stadium.
• 18:06
  We beat Banzi on Sky.
• 18:09
  Because at first, because it was like Dean Windass was there, Ian Ashby was there, captain, and they were in the 30s.
• 18:17
  I think Windass was like 38, same age as I am now.
• 18:22
  So they were looking at me as if to say like, here we go.
• 18:26
  Another Man United young lad thinks he's the dogs, bollies or whatever, coming in here and thinks it's going to be easy.
• 18:34
  So they were testing me at first.
• 18:35
  And then once I started playing,
• 18:37
  And they realized that, you know, I'm hardworking, humble-ish.
• 18:43
  They took to me and they put their arm around me and then they pushed me to work hard and do well.
• 18:48
  And, you know, we got on really well.
• 18:50
  So everything's kind of clicked and we just went from strength to strength.
• 18:53
  Well, it's funny you mentioned Dean Windass because the day I want to talk to you about is when Hull beat Bristol City 1-0 at Wembley in the playoff final.
• 19:02
  Dean Windass, 39 years old at the time, scores the famous goal.
• 19:07
  You're pretty much half his age at this point.
• 19:10
  Yeah.
• 19:10
  And the celebration, you're jumping on his back.
• 19:15
  Yeah.
• 19:15
  How do you remember that day?
• 19:19
  Moments of it were a blur.
• 19:21
  I remember, obviously, him scoring the volley.
• 19:23
  I remember running the full length of the pitch to our fans.
• 19:27
  I remember the flames before the game thinking, wow, this is hot.
• 19:30
  I remember getting cramped towards the end.
• 19:33
  But...
• 19:33
  The general feel around the day was it was just our day.
• 19:37
  Bus to the stadium, I felt like I only saw Hull fans.
• 19:41
  And it just felt like, yeah, it was meant to be.
• 19:44
  Like I said, from the moment that Barnsley game, first game...
• 19:49
  To that moment, it just felt like everything was just going in the right direction, smooth sailing, and it was just rain in the stars for the whole boy to score a volley in the top corner to win the game, to send his team to the Premier League for the first time ever.
• 20:04
  So it was...
• 20:05
  Emotions were high, but I was exhausted at the after party.
• 20:09
  I think I had about three beers and then went to sleep.
• 20:12
  Shattered.
• 20:13
  Absolutely exhausted.
• 20:15
  But no, yeah, great memories.
• 20:17
  When you're on the bus and you go into the game, do you actually feel like we are going to win?
• 20:21
  Are you feeling that confidence?
• 20:23
  Are you feeling nervous at all?
• 20:24
  No.
• 20:26
  No, because up until this point, I'd never really tasted defeat in terms of, I was at United Academy.
• 20:33
  Every time I went to a tournament, it was either semi-final, finals, winning it.
• 20:39
  Youth team games, we were dominating in the league, the cups and stuff.
• 20:43
  So I had that winning mentality all the time.
• 20:46
  So going into that final, like I said, there wasn't one part of me that thought, this can be...
• 20:53
  I didn't think it was going to be an easy game, but I thought, yeah, we're going to beat these because we've got more than them.
• 20:58
  I just assume we've got more desire and, you know, this is our day.
• 21:03
  I was, you know, confident in that game that we get what we deserved and what we worked for all season.
• 21:12
  And what was Dean Windass like then?
• 21:15
  So you already mentioned he could have been your dad at that age.
• 21:19
  What is he actually like to play around?
• 21:21
  To play with, yeah, great.
• 21:23
  He was of the old school mindset of, I'll jump up, battle with the defenders, get whacked in the face, you run around, do all the pretty stuff and score the goals.
• 21:33
  And for me, that was fantastic.
• 21:36
  But he was experienced, scored a lot of goals throughout his career, different levels, and he knew how to...
• 21:43
  use his body well.
• 21:44
  He knew he wasn't going to be running around like a headless chicken for 90 minutes, so he was picking and choosing his runs, but he was unselfish.
• 21:53
  He knew that he couldn't get into certain areas, so he'd leave it for me or be coaching me while we're playing.
• 21:59
  And at that time,
• 22:01
  It was perfect, perfect for me.
• 22:03
  And he helped me in my journey to becoming the player that I became.
• 22:09
  And now the question I think you thought I was going to ask is, what was he like as a person?
• 22:12
  Yeah.
• 22:13
  I thought, well, I could sit here and talk all day about his character off the field, but he was just...
• 22:21
  Just a geezer.
• 22:22
  You know, a proper bloke.
• 22:24
  He wanted to have five pints after a game in the lounge and talk about the things he'd done over the weekend.
• 22:31
  But he was a heart of gold.
• 22:33
  He'd do anything for you on and off the pitch.
• 22:37
  So, yeah, that's the same thing to this day.
• 22:39
  I think in his house is a picture of me and him.
• 22:41
  No way.
• 22:42
  Yeah.
• 22:42
  You on his back.
• 22:43
  Yeah, me on his back.
• 22:44
  Yeah, and that's, you know, he always talks as if I'm one of his sons, he says.
• 22:47
  But, yeah, like I said, the age gap, and it was brilliant, brilliant times.
• 22:53
  Yeah, I love that.
• 22:54
  And all wanted to keep you permanently.
• 22:56
  Yeah.
• 22:57
  We all know that.
• 22:58
  Was there ever a point that you thought, I want to stay here?
• 23:03
  But it's a difficult one because I enjoy my time there, 100%, no doubt.
• 23:07
  But I'm a Man United player.
• 23:09
  I was only on loan.
• 23:11
  The goal of the loan was to get closer to playing the first team.
• 23:15
  So for me, my priorities had never changed.
• 23:19
  I still wanted to try and break into the Man United first team.
• 23:22
  Yeah.
• 23:25
  And I came back with that attitude, hoping to get some minutes with the first team.
• 23:30
  And it didn't.
• 23:31
  Didn't happen, I ended up going out on loan again.
• 23:33
  But my mentality was to play for Man United.
• 23:37
  I mean, you were at Man United since you were 10.
• 23:39
  You've gone on loan to Belgium, you've gone on loan to Hull.
• 23:42
  How determined were you to actually prove that to Man United?
• 23:48
  Yeah well yeah that's all even to this day I still wake up and twitching having dreams about playing at Old Trafford still and that's all I did from eight years old you know my dream to play for my United so getting to 16 you know making my debut at 17 I've been a little tasting of it then 18 19 20 going out on these different lawns still desperate to play for to play for my United so it's
• 24:14
  Yeah, I was on the verge of playing and that was still at the forefront of my mind.
• 24:20
  How can I get into this team?
• 24:23
  Because I was a massive fan and the team was full of stars and it was a team that you wanted to be involved in, but...
• 24:30
  It was a lot of hard work.
• 24:32
  Yeah, of course.
• 24:32
  Obviously, you have to do as you're told.
• 24:35
  Go on loan here, go on loan there, do your job, and then hopefully when you've come back, get another chance.
• 24:41
  When you say do as you're told, did Sir Alex Ferguson ever tell you you'd get your opportunity?
• 24:48
  Well, yes and no.
• 24:49
  It didn't say, look, you go out on loan here or you train well.
• 24:53
  But it was the Man United way.
• 24:55
  So I didn't have to speak to Sir Alex about that.
• 24:59
  It was filtered through.
• 25:00
  So, for example, my first professional contract when I was 17, it was Gary Neville that did it.
• 25:07
  He said, oh, you've been doing well in the youth team.
• 25:09
  I'm scoring goals, blah, blah, blah.
• 25:12
  You've been offered a new contract.
• 25:14
  I was like, no.
• 25:14
  He said, oh, I'd jump to go and ask the boss.
• 25:17
  It should be a new deal.
• 25:18
  And I was like, this is a trick question.
• 25:20
  Why would I say no to that?
• 25:22
  And how old's Gary Neville at this point?
• 25:26
  I don't know.
• 25:26
  I'm about 17, so I don't know how old's Gary Neville now.
• 25:30
  But what year was it?
• 25:31
  It must be...
• 25:33
  He must have been early 2000s, 2003, 2004.
• 25:39
  Okay.
• 25:41
  So I don't know how old he was then, but late 20s, I'd say he was.
• 25:45
  He was obviously a captain-esque, if he wasn't the captain at the time, and he went in and negotiated a new deal.
• 25:53
  And I got a new deal.
• 25:54
  So then that was the feeling around the place.
• 25:58
  It's not like you need to go banging on people's doors and asking for, if you do the right things, you take the right steps, get the rewards.
• 26:08
  And I think that contract I signed was only six months after I signed my last contract.
• 26:13
  So it was...
• 26:14
  No one needed to ask any questions.
• 26:16
  It was like, you do your work, you do hit your targets, and then obviously you progress through the ranks and get your chance.
• 26:24
  So he never really said to me, do this and you'll play on the first team.
• 26:29
  It was just known if the Man United were kind of thing.
• 26:31
  Yeah, well, Gary Neville must have thought a lot of you to do that.
• 26:34
  Yeah.
• 26:35
  He was either a set-up or, yeah.
• 26:37
  But it's not just me he was doing that for.
• 26:40
  It's, that's, obviously, the boys, the class of 92, they essentially ran the club following Fergie's blueprint.
• 26:50
  So, it just kind of filtered down to us.
• 26:52
  So, yeah, you know,
• 26:55
  I learned a lot from them boys, and they were always so approachable, mainly because they went through the same process themselves, and they know what it's like.
• 27:08
  Imagine going to see, knocking on Fergie's door at 16 and say, I think I'm doing well here.
• 27:11
  I can have a new deal.
• 27:13
  So they obviously recognized things like that and put their arm around us, coached us, helped us.
• 27:19
  That's what made the club so special.
• 27:22
  What was Sir Alex like with you personally?
• 27:25
  Me personally, he was great.
• 27:27
  Obviously, I was there a long time.
• 27:29
  I remember his car being, if I went to Carrington, like 11, 12, his car had been there.
• 27:36
  Everyone was like, oh, Sir Alex is in.
• 27:38
  And you'd wander around the training pitches and you'd get a little interaction with him.
• 27:43
  So he knew, and he had a memory like no other.
• 27:46
  So he knew everything about my mum, my dad, my brother.
• 27:50
  So he'd always ask questions about them.
• 27:53
  And then when I came from school, I was in there every day, being on the canteen, he would shout out Campbell.
• 28:01
  I'd want me jam and toast, a cup of tea, bring in me office.
• 28:05
  So then I'd be making his things, stuff like that.
• 28:08
  So, yeah, it was... Well, you would make it for him?
• 28:10
  Yeah.
• 28:11
  Yeah, of course.
• 28:12
  If Sir Alex wanted a cup of tea and his jam on toast or whatever he wanted, then you had to make it and drop it off in his office.
• 28:18
  Oh, okay.
• 28:19
  But it was a respect thing.
• 28:22
  Or if you were stood around making a brew or whatever, a hot teaspoon on the back of your ass.
• 28:28
  Ah, thanks.
• 28:29
  Thanks, Sir Alex.
• 28:30
  That's unbelievable.
• 28:32
  I didn't know this.
• 28:33
  Yeah, he was in and around the team a lot.
• 28:36
  So it was, obviously, there was that side of him that was thoughtful and playful.
• 28:41
  But then, obviously, you hear about Berge's hairdryer and all that.
• 28:45
  You know, you respect him toward the line, but you don't cross the line at all.
• 28:51
  Was there ever a moment where he made you believe that you could make it here?
• 28:54
  I think...
• 28:58
  I don't think there's one standout moment, but there was subtle messages.
• 29:02
  So my first ever start against Newcastle, I think it must have been a Euros year or a World Cup year because Cristiano wasn't around or he was just coming back to fitness.
• 29:16
  So there's only me and Waza available for the game.
• 29:21
  Yeah.
• 29:22
  So I'm training with the first team as norm, but then Giggsie pulls me off to training just to ensure he's off.
• 29:29
  You're starting to my friends.
• 29:30
  I was like, and I know what you're like, Giggsie.
• 29:34
  Total wind-up merging, drive sense of humour, and it gives nothing away with his fish.
• 29:40
  He was like, playing.
• 29:43
  Anyway, Waz, I speak to Waz, he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, start me and you start up front tomorrow.
• 29:47
  So I'm like, well, I care.
• 29:49
  So then I've obviously played it cool.
• 29:53
  straight into the restroom, got my phone and rang my mum, my dad.
• 29:57
  You never guess what I'm playing tomorrow, I'll start tomorrow.
• 30:00
  So little things like that in putting his confidence in you to start, you know, I think it was the first home game of the season against Newcastle.
• 30:09
  Obviously, they were a good side at the time.
• 30:11
  So it was little things like that.
• 30:14
  I knew that he had confidence in my ability and, you know, because he wouldn't have started me otherwise.
• 30:20
  I wouldn't have even had me around the first team.
• 30:22
  So,
• 30:23
  Yeah, little things like that made me super proud that he could count on me to do a job.
• 30:29
  What did it feel like putting that shirt on for the first time?
• 30:32
  It was, obviously, it was brilliant.
• 30:35
  And that was the moment.
• 30:37
  You know, I'd come on before that, a couple of years before when I was 17,
• 30:43
  but making you start felt like a completely different ball game and off the back of a couple of years on loan, I'd done well to get the start.
• 30:53
  I remember I was in the jacuzzi after the game, sat with Vida, Rio, and Vida was like, yeah, you had a good week, a good training session, started for the first two.
• 31:05
  I was like, yeah, this is the life, isn't it?
• 31:08
  This is mint.
• 31:08
  So, yeah, I was on cloud nine, played the game, and I thought I played really well as well, and a couple of chances to score, and one chance I had, Wayne's crossed it in outside of his boot, diving header near post.
• 31:23
  I thought, this has gone perfectly.
• 31:25
  Shea Gibbon's gone like this.
• 31:27
  Hit him in the side of the face, and I think he might have gone out for a corner.
• 31:31
  So I was like, how has he saved that?
• 31:34
  And he was in September, because I remember he left Newcastle,
• 31:39
  like four or five days later.
• 31:40
  And I always remember thinking, I wish he'd have left the week before.
• 31:43
  That might have got in.
• 31:44
  I might have started and scored.
• 31:45
  It would have been a dream, a dream start for me.
• 31:48
  But no, yeah, I look back on that game.
• 31:50
  We've, I remember it.
• 31:53
  We've,
• 31:54
  Some of the names you've mentioned there is unreal.
• 31:56
  And does that feel surreal for you?
• 31:58
  You just mentioned Wayne Rooney crossing the ball in for you.
• 32:01
  Yeah.
• 32:02
  Are you getting on the end of it?
• 32:03
  It does.
• 32:04
  When I'm telling other people my stories, and you can see them thinking, oh, well, that's a big name.
• 32:10
  But for me, it was just the norm.
• 32:12
  And Wayne's obviously a year older than me, or two years older than me, so...
• 32:17
  He was just another one of the lads, obviously brilliant at football, but we're all good at football.
• 32:22
  So it was kind of, I don't know what the word is, it made it less impressive.
• 32:29
  Obviously he's an impressive footer, he made it less, I can't think of the word.
• 32:33
  It's probably more impressive looking back rather than in the moment for you because you're part of that.
• 32:38
  Yeah.
• 32:38
  You're one of them.
• 32:39
  Yeah.
• 32:40
  Exactly that.
• 32:41
  So when you're looking back, it's like, wow, I've played with these amazing players at these amazing stadiums, an amazing time for the club.
• 32:49
  But at the time, I was just in it.
• 32:51
  It's like, oh, yeah, this is decent.
• 32:52
  Wayne's passing it well.
• 32:55
  Well, the names we've mentioned as well, so you've got Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney.
• 32:59
  When you're training with players of that level,
• 33:02
  Do you think it makes you train a lot harder?
• 33:04
  Yeah, a thousand percent.
• 33:06
  Even the boxers, the rondos at the start, like piggy in the middle type of thing, come out for them.
• 33:13
  And my heart rate would be sky high because obviously I'm a massive Man United fan and I'm trying to play it cool on the outside, but inside I'm just giddy to be out there thinking, this is me.
• 33:25
  I'm playing football with some of my heroes that I was going to watch in the Champions League when I was 11, 12 years of age.
• 33:31
  Now I'm training with them.
• 33:32
  So it's like your heart rates and you're enjoying it, but at the same time thinking, I can't afford to not be at my best here because...
• 33:41
  on their worst day, they're still miles better than everyone else.
• 33:44
  So I need to be up there pushing myself.
• 33:47
  And I think that's what he did.
• 33:49
  It drove the type of people they were as well.
• 33:52
  Roy Keane, for example, they drove the standards.
• 33:55
  So they were, no matter who you are, no matter what your name was, was work hard, do well for the team, because that's the bare minimum.
• 34:05
  So everyone was just at it every day.
• 34:08
  Couldn't afford to turn up tired or definitely couldn't be late or anything like that.
• 34:12
  He was just like, this is us.
• 34:14
  And if you're not willing to hit these markers, then you're out the door.
• 34:21
  Did you ever feel that any of them felt they were above anyone else?
• 34:24
  Or did everyone feel on that equal level?
• 34:28
  to me they all felt like they're all like equal level obviously you had the captain kino he was the one that you know was the the leader as such but then you know everyone else was like vice captain um and he didn't necessarily have to say anything because if he's thinking it the other 10 12 well 20 players are thinking it so it was
• 34:51
  That's just how it ran.
• 34:52
  You had one guy that was the captain, but everyone else was more than capable of being captain.
• 34:58
  Yeah, that's why they had so much success during that period because everyone was accountable for everyone else's actions.
• 35:05
  Yeah, no, that makes sense.
• 35:07
  After this, there comes one of the craziest days of your career.
• 35:11
  Deadline day 2008.
• 35:13
  Man United are trying to sign Dimitar Burtel from Tottenham and suddenly your name becomes part of the deal.
• 35:18
  Burtel.
• 35:19
  You've described these minutes, well, you've described this as three minutes that changed your life.
• 35:24
  Take me into those minutes.
• 35:26
  So I set the scene.
• 35:28
  It's obviously deadline day.
• 35:31
  Must have been September.
• 35:33
  Yeah, September.
• 35:34
  And I was on international duty.
• 35:37
  I was with England under 21s, I think.
• 35:41
  I know that I'm going on loan, but I think I'm going on loan to Wigan.
• 35:46
  So at the time, Steve Bruce is the manager of Wigan.
• 35:48
  So me, Steve Bruce, my dad, they're in a hotel somewhere with England and the 21s.
• 35:54
  And this is how long it was, waiting for a fax to come through.
• 36:01
  so we sent the first bit of the fax we've got to sign it or what not and then we've sent that fax that back to the club and the fax is going back and forth we just need this final fax to come through and then I'm going to Wigan on loan
• 36:17
  great so we sat talking about what we're doing this season I think Heskey's there at the time Sibierski two like veteran strikes I think you can learn a lot from these guys Wigan at the time mid Premier League club not too much expectation but they're not going to get battered every week so it was a great opportunity for me to go from top of the championship to mid-brand perfect
• 36:40
  Anyway, we're waiting.
• 36:41
  It's like maybe 11 o'clock, waiting, quarter past 11, half past 11.
• 36:47
  What's going on here?
• 36:48
  Then the phone's on the table and it starts ringing, but it's a withheld unknown number.
• 36:54
  And we all know it's an unreal rule, isn't it?
• 36:56
  You're not answering that, especially if it's like half 11, quarter to 12 at night.
• 37:00
  He said, well, you better answer it because it might be someone from the club trying to sort something out.
• 37:07
  So he answered it.
• 37:07
  I was like, hello?
• 37:07
  I was like, oh, Fraser, you all right?
• 37:09
  I was like, you know, his voice sounds familiar, but you're thinking, who's this?
• 37:13
  He said, it's the boss, Sir Alex.
• 37:16
  Oh, my God.
• 37:17
  First time he's ever rang me.
• 37:18
  So I'm like, oh.
• 37:20
  Hi, what's going on?
• 37:22
  He's like, so we've got a deal going through for Berbatov, £30 million.
• 37:32
  Obviously, them times, that's a lot of money.
• 37:35
  But there's a problem.
• 37:38
  So I'm like, okay, he said, the deal's not going to go through unless you agree to go on to Spurs.
• 37:45
  Yeah.
• 37:46
  So, you know, now it's quarter to 12, deadline's midnight.
• 37:50
  He said, I'm going to give you five minutes to think about it, and then I'm going to call you back, and you just let me know what you want to do.
• 37:55
  I was like, okay, boss, put the phone down.
• 37:59
  And Steve was like, what's that?
• 38:01
  I was like, so Alex?
• 38:03
  He was like, no, what's happened?
• 38:05
  So I told him, and he was like, no, well, he's still come to Wigit.
• 38:08
  I was like...
• 38:10
  I think he knew, and he was fine with it in the end, but it's like, there's no way I'm bringing Sir Alex back and saying, yeah, yeah, I see what you're trying to do with Berbatov, but I'm just going to go to Wigan and have my career instead.
• 38:24
  So obviously I had to go along with what the manager wanted.
• 38:28
  So, the facts came through immediately for Spurs.
• 38:33
  And Steve Bruce was gutted, and he was one of them things.
• 38:37
  What was Steve Bruce's reaction when that happened?
• 38:40
  He was gutted, but he knew that there's not a lot I could do.
• 38:44
  I could go against...
• 38:45
  I could go against United and Sir Alex, but obviously that's not going to end well.
• 38:51
  They'll probably cancel my loan to Wigan and then my career's over there essentially.
• 38:56
  So I just went with the flow, went to Spurs.
• 38:59
  Obviously Spurs, brilliant team.
• 39:01
  And I think Tom Huddleston, Jamie O'Hara, Aaron Lennon were all in my England camp at the time.
• 39:08
  So it was like, well, at least I know half the team there.
• 39:12
  So it was, that was my first...
• 39:15
  proper experience of a deadline day deal and it was yeah mental you know i bet do do you think obviously steve bruce knew sir alex very well yeah you think you gave him a call like what are you doing i think probably after in the days after he was like you you set this up like yeah why have you taken away from it but
• 39:32
  It's one of them football things change really quick.
• 39:35
  And, you know, would have learned to have Wigan helped me?
• 39:41
  Who knows?
• 39:42
  I don't know.
• 39:42
  It's just one of them things that I'll never know.
• 39:44
  Yeah.
• 39:45
  At this point, well, first of all, did you actually feel like you had a choice?
• 39:48
  Because like you said, the boss has called you.
• 39:50
  How could you turn around?
• 39:51
  No, yeah.
• 39:51
  I had no choice at all.
• 39:53
  I didn't have...
• 39:54
  enough credit in the bank to say, listen, I'm going to do my own thing.
• 39:59
  But yeah, and obviously I'm in the mindset of, I want to play for Sir Alex.
• 40:04
  I want to play in the first team.
• 40:06
  Can't really be upsetting him.
• 40:07
  Well, stay in his good books.
• 40:08
  Yeah, exactly.
• 40:11
  Did you ever wonder though at this point, like, will I get a proper chance for United?
• 40:17
  I don't know if I was ever really thinking about it because...
• 40:20
  Like I said before, once you're in it and you're mixing with the players and you're playing this game, playing that game, you're going on loan.
• 40:26
  You're just on a conveyor belt and things are just happening really quick.
• 40:30
  You haven't got time to sit there and think, what are my actual chances?
• 40:35
  Just playing, trying to be available.
• 40:37
  And if the opportunity arises, try and take it.
• 40:40
  Because I think for me, every time I was at the club,
• 40:46
  Everyone was fit and nobody was injured.
• 40:49
  No one was like bad form.
• 40:51
  And they always had three or four top quality strikers.
• 40:55
  But then it seemed anytime I went on loan somewhere, like when Makeda scored.
• 41:00
  He got his chance.
• 41:01
  Yeah, you just need that one chance.
• 41:02
  Danny Welbeck's around, he gets his chance.
• 41:04
  Obviously, great players and still playing today.
• 41:08
  Welbe, isn't he?
• 41:09
  Brilliant, but...
• 41:10
  Sometimes you just need that little bit of luck to get your opportunity to score a goal or whatever.
• 41:17
  For whatever reason, I was always out.
• 41:19
  But it's football.
• 41:21
  Like I said before, I've got zero regrets throughout my career.
• 41:25
  There's moments where I think, I wonder what would have happened, if this would have happened or that would have happened.
• 41:30
  But...
• 41:32
  What about emotionally then?
• 41:34
  So you mentioned there that, you know, you recognise it's part of football and it's these kind of things, but you're set up, you're ready to go to Wigan.
• 41:41
  You've ended up at Tottenham now.
• 41:43
  Does that affect you at all emotionally thinking, I don't want to be here?
• 41:47
  Yeah.
• 41:49
  Yes and no, but you get used to it.
• 41:52
  People always ask me the question about the fans.
• 41:55
  What's it like stepping out in front of 90,000 people?
• 41:58
  And I'm like, well, yeah, it is a lot.
• 42:01
  But if you think back from when I was 10, there might have been 15 people around the pitch.
• 42:07
  Then you go to 11, maybe 30.
• 42:09
  So as you're getting older, you're getting slightly more.
• 42:12
  You might get to 15.
• 42:12
  There's like a couple thousand people watching.
• 42:14
  So then by the time you get to 19, 20, and you're playing in front of 12,000, 20, 25, it's just thousands by this point.
• 42:22
  And it's noisy, but it's...
• 42:25
  doesn't take away from what you're doing.
• 42:27
  So as to answer your question, you just get used to it.
• 42:33
  It just becomes the norm.
• 42:35
  You've got plans for something.
• 42:36
  Even my 21st, I had go-karting planned in Manchester.
• 42:40
  I had a restaurant and a bar booked for all my mates.
• 42:43
  Scrapped all that because I was in London.
• 42:45
  So you just, you have to learn to adapt really quickly and, you know, have a thick skin, not get too upset with things that are completely out of your control.
• 42:59
  Nine times out of 10, you've got no choice.
• 43:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 43:03
  What was that Spurs dressing room like then when you joined?
• 43:07
  It was mint.
• 43:08
  Good class.
• 43:08
  Like I said, Lennon was there, Huddleston, O'Hara, obviously Gareth Bale was there, Modric was there, Genus, Darren Bent, Pavlichenko, Defoe, Robbie Keane.
• 43:22
  A lot of competition again.
• 43:25
  Yeah, so he just went from one dressing room with superstars to another with superstars.
• 43:30
  So it was great for my learning curve.
• 43:34
  Played in Europe and obviously lived away from home down in London.
• 43:41
  But yeah, it was another good team to be at and around by quality players.
• 43:46
  You played under Juan de Ramos first and then Harry Redknapp.
• 43:51
  What were they like as managers?
• 43:53
  So Juan de English was shocking.
• 43:56
  So Gus Boyett was his interpreter.
• 43:59
  So I always wondered, is he interpreting word for word here?
• 44:03
  Or is some of what he wants me to do getting lost in translation?
• 44:06
  But...
• 44:07
  Fandey liked me a lot.
• 44:09
  He did a lot of work with me and he was happy to have me there and develop me as a player.
• 44:16
  But then, obviously, when a manager goes, a new manager comes in, it's full of opinions.
• 44:21
  So it's always difficult
• 44:24
  it's always unknown you don't know where you're going to lie with this next manager and for me Harry wasn't really having me at all I think I heard someone saying I think physio not physio an agent saying that why does he want to play the loan player if he does well he goes back to his loan club and
• 44:42
  So it was a bit counterproductive from when he came in after that.
• 44:46
  Didn't really play much, the odd game here and there.
• 44:49
  But still being around that elite environment, training every day with the other players, like I said, Modric, Gareth Bale.
• 44:57
  It was great for my development, but I just didn't play as much as maybe I would have done at Wigan.
• 45:04
  Or maybe I would do as much as I would have done if Ramos would have been sacked.
• 45:07
  In 2009 then, after being at Man United since you were 10, it finally ends.
• 45:12
  Yeah.
• 45:13
  You signed permanently for Sunderland.
• 45:16
  How difficult was it accepting at that point, okay, Man United are now letting me go?
• 45:21
  Yeah.
• 45:22
  Again, I didn't...
• 45:24
  I feel like, you know, it was, I was gutted.
• 45:29
  Like, maybe if you get released from a club, it's a bit.
• 45:32
  But you're going from one place, which you loved, and, you know, I enjoyed every minute of it, and then going to another place where I went to Sunderland, the Premier League team.
• 45:42
  Steve Bruce is the manager.
• 45:43
  I think Kieran Richardson was there.
• 45:46
  Paul McShane was there.
• 45:47
  Players that I'd played the youth system with.
• 45:49
  Phil Barzer was there.
• 45:51
  Darren Bent was, I knew he was going there as well.
• 45:55
  I remember sat, where was we?
• 45:57
  I think we were in South Africa on tour with United.
• 46:01
  And I was sat next to Neville again, I think.
• 46:05
  And I was like, what should I do, guys?
• 46:07
  Obviously, I want to play United, but it seems like it's impossible at this point.
• 46:14
  And these clubs want me to go there.
• 46:15
  It's like, just go out and make a name for yourself.
• 46:19
  you know, just because you're leaving now doesn't mean you can't ever come back or you might go somewhere and do really well and get a move somewhere else.
• 46:27
  You're in the mix now.
• 46:29
  You know, you're rubbing shoulders with us lot.
• 46:31
  You've been to Spurs.
• 46:33
  You've been at Hull.
• 46:33
  You know, you've got...
• 46:36
  You're there or there about.
• 46:37
  He didn't say you've made it, but he was alluding to that.
• 46:40
  Go out and make a career for yourself now.
• 46:41
  Go out, play somewhere regular and see where it takes you.
• 46:46
  So again, Gary Neville got me a new deal and got me out the doors.
• 46:49
  What we're realising is Gary Neville played a big part.
• 46:52
  But something interesting there as well is you said Steve Bruce.
• 46:55
  And Steve Bruce obviously wanted you at Wigan, didn't get you.
• 46:58
  And he's come back in for you to sign you permanently at Sunderland.
• 47:01
  How important was it having that stability at Sunderland?
• 47:05
  Massively, because that's all players are searching for.
• 47:08
  You want to go somewhere where you know your role, you know that the players, the manager respects you and trusts you to do your job.
• 47:16
  You want to have some sort of connection with the fans and you want your team to be doing well and you want to feel valued where you can put down some roots and not relax a little bit, but you can just express yourself, be yourself and show your talent.
• 47:35
  What was Steve Bruce like with you when you came?
• 47:38
  It was old school.
• 47:39
  An old school, work really hard Monday to Friday, do well on a Saturday, and I'll look after you.
• 47:49
  Give you a day off here and there.
• 47:50
  It was a give-and-take relationship, do you know what I mean?
• 47:54
  He expected everyone to work hard minimum, and if you did that,
• 47:58
  he wouldn't have any problems.
• 48:00
  Tactical stuff, yeah, you might get wrong and stuff like that, decision-making, but as long as you were at it and trying to do what he wanted, he was happy.
• 48:09
  And that was how I was.
• 48:11
  And obviously, he was at United for a long time, so we understood United way.
• 48:15
  A lot of ex-United players went there after as well, so it felt like a second home.
• 48:22
  Yeah.
• 48:22
  So it was class.
• 48:23
  Well, obviously, your first season, you're playing regularly.
• 48:26
  You're scoring a number of goals.
• 48:29
  It looks like you're really starting to see yourself at this point as a Premier League player.
• 48:34
  Then football changes very quickly for you in August 2010.
• 48:37
  Yeah.
• 48:38
  You're playing against Man City, you get injured.
• 48:41
  Did you immediately recognise it was a serious injury?
• 48:45
  No.
• 48:46
  I knew it was painful, but at the time I did my knee ligament,
• 48:53
  I don't remember reading a lot about it before that.
• 48:57
  But yeah, I knew something wasn't up because I'd never really had an injury before.
• 49:01
  Maybe a little muscle strain out for 10 days or two weeks max and then back at it.
• 49:06
  But this one, I jolted my knee.
• 49:10
  Then when I went to stand up, my knee felt really loose.
• 49:14
  I thought, oh, I don't feel great.
• 49:16
  And getting stretched it off.
• 49:18
  and even when I got stretched off and I was walking around the next day and stuff I didn't feel like it was going to be right, this is going to be me for the next 18 months, I just thought I'll be alright in a few weeks because like you said, my first season was my um
• 49:35
  finding my feet season.
• 49:36
  I came back in pre-season and I scored something like seven goals in nine games.
• 49:41
  So I was really, really fit, really at it.
• 49:44
  And second game of the season, my knee gives way.
• 49:48
  So it was an emotional time the months after that initial injury.
• 49:55
  Yeah, I mean, what goes through your head when you're told you've done your ACL here?
• 50:00
  Like I said, the first time, the first question was like, so how long till I'm back playing?
• 50:09
  It's six months.
• 50:10
  What?
• 50:11
  That's near the end of the season.
• 50:13
  Like we're in August.
• 50:14
  I'm not going to be back till March time.
• 50:16
  That's...
• 50:16
  That's too long.
• 50:19
  For someone who's, like I said, first season, decent start, never really been injured for, living up in Sunderland on my own, then to be sidelined, yeah, it was probably that period, that 18 months of the worst period of my life, to be honest, mentally, physically.
• 50:42
  It was tough.
• 50:44
  Yeah, you work then for months to get yourself back.
• 50:49
  And like you said, it's really difficult.
• 50:51
  You're finally approaching your return, April 2011.
• 50:54
  You're preparing for a game against Man City again.
• 50:57
  And the same knee goes again.
• 50:58
  Yeah, it's Man City, isn't it?
• 51:01
  It's always them.
• 51:02
  No comment.
• 51:02
  It's always them.
• 51:03
  I don't know, a couple of charges.
• 51:08
  You're later told that it was only around 5% chance of this happening again.
• 51:15
  How do you deal with something like that?
• 51:17
  See, so the first time was, you know, it was bad, but it was all new.
• 51:21
  I didn't know what was in store.
• 51:24
  The second time...
• 51:26
  after hearing stats like that, 5% chance, knowing what the painful process that I've been through already, but it's going to be an extra six months longer.
• 51:38
  That was probably the lowest I've ever been.
• 51:42
  Yeah, I remember.
• 51:44
  And what made it worse was this scan date.
• 51:48
  Second time I did it, just for our city, I went, got a scan.
• 51:52
  waiting for the results, they read the results from a previous scan.
• 51:57
  So it was like, oh, it all looks off.
• 51:58
  Okay, it should be all right in 10 days.
• 52:01
  So I'm thinking, thank God.
• 52:03
  You know, I was thinking the worst, thinking my knee's massive.
• 52:06
  I've done it again.
• 52:07
  I've got another six months at least, probably nine, 10 months till I can, you know, back trading again.
• 52:14
  They rang me and said, oh, it's all right.
• 52:16
  You'll be all right.
• 52:17
  It was like an hour later, they rang me and said, oh,
• 52:19
  Sorry, we've read the wrong scans.
• 52:24
  I was like, what?
• 52:24
  What do you mean?
• 52:26
  So you've actually ruptured your ACL again.
• 52:28
  I was like.
• 52:30
  And then he was talking.
• 52:32
  I don't know if I was on the phone for 10 minutes or an hour after.
• 52:35
  I just don't remember anything of the conversation.
• 52:38
  My mind just floated off.
• 52:39
  And then hung the phone up.
• 52:41
  I must have sat in my car for about two hours just crying.
• 52:43
  So I thought, I can't do this again.
• 52:45
  Can't mentally, physically go through all that again.
• 52:49
  Especially when I had the high of thinking, oh, it's going to be a few weeks.
• 52:52
  Said it was all right.
• 52:53
  And then I rang the back to correct it.
• 52:55
  Saying, oh, it's going to be nine, ten months that you're out now.
• 52:59
  That was a kick in the stomach.
• 53:02
  And I'd say for a month or so, a month or two, I didn't want anything to do with football.
• 53:07
  I didn't want to talk about football.
• 53:08
  I didn't even want to be in my house up in Sunderland.
• 53:12
  Came back to Yorkshire, lived at my mum's for a bit.
• 53:16
  And then just got to a point where I thought, you know, I can't keep moping around like this.
• 53:20
  I need to...
• 53:22
  start on the journey to getting back.
• 53:25
  And that's what I did.
• 53:27
  Did you ever think at this point, I might not come back?
• 53:30
  Yeah, that was at the forefront of my mind.
• 53:32
  Like it's happened once, I've come back, it's happened again.
• 53:36
  What if it's just this, what if that's just my body?
• 53:38
  Maybe I'm just not built for playing this level of football.
• 53:42
  Maybe it's too much for my joints, my ligaments, and it's going to be forever a problem because...
• 53:49
  I can't remember the name of the kid.
• 53:50
  There was a kid that played for Middlesbrough, similar kind of age for me, and he did his knees six or seven times, like left one, right.
• 53:58
  And it was like, he was meant to be the next best thing.
• 54:01
  And in my mind, I think that was the only comparison I had.
• 54:03
  I was thinking, what if that's me?
• 54:06
  Um,
• 54:07
  So, yeah, it was testing times, especially when the ACL injury 10 years previous, or maybe 15 years previous, that was a career ender.
• 54:18
  There was no surgery to bring you back.
• 54:20
  It was just that was you done.
• 54:22
  So, yeah, I was...
• 54:25
  slightly concerned, at least.
• 54:27
  Well, how did you keep yourself strong mentally?
• 54:30
  Obviously, you've mentioned there you struggled.
• 54:33
  When you had that switch and you're like, I need to get back.
• 54:36
  Yeah.
• 54:37
  I need to start this journey.
• 54:38
  How did you do that
• 54:40
  I don't think it was me.
• 54:40
  I think it's my family around me.
• 54:43
  So I'm really close to my mum and dad.
• 54:46
  My brother was my girlfriend at the time.
• 54:49
  My now wife had a good inner circle that helped me.
• 54:54
  And at the round, I've always said this as well, around the same time I started Twitter, Twitter account, showing my age again, and...
• 55:05
  a lot of the Sunderland fans were on there and they were just being like super positive, super nice.
• 55:10
  So then I started coming round and then I started doing a lot of work in the community and being out in the community, helping food banks and homeless people and just going into schools and stuff like that.
• 55:25
  That made me...
• 55:26
  feel like I had some worth at the club.
• 55:29
  And I couldn't show my worth on the pitch, but being like community champion and stuff like that, I got awards and stuff from the people that sent them.
• 55:38
  That meant a lot to me at that time when I probably really needed it the most.
• 55:44
  What were these people that you were helping saying to you?
• 55:47
  Obviously they know you're right.
• 55:48
  For a long time.
• 55:49
  Were they injecting positivity into you?
• 55:52
  Yeah, just being really positive.
• 55:54
  Just saying, like, we saw you, you know, playing for United or we were doing great in pre-season or last season we came down to this game and watched you.
• 56:04
  Brilliant.
• 56:04
  I want you to, you know, hopefully back soon and back scoring the goals.
• 56:09
  And they were just like...
• 56:10
  I think because I'm just a normal, humble, working class person and I'm honest and that's essentially what it's like in Sunderland, similar kind of vibe, mentality.
• 56:24
  And I got on with them, but they couldn't see that.
• 56:26
  I wasn't one of their own, but I was in a sense.
• 56:30
  We had a real good connection.
• 56:32
  I don't know if you saw, I went down there last week, a couple of weeks ago to watch the Renfrew game.
• 56:36
  It was amazing.
• 56:37
  It was meant because they're real honest people and they helped me tremendously get through that time, just being positive and, to be honest, showing me that there's more to life.
• 56:49
  Sometimes you're injured, it's not great, but look at all these amazing things you can do in the community to try and inspire some other kids and help some families out and...
• 56:58
  and still be important.
• 57:00
  Maybe not in the way you want to be on the pitch, but I found my groove when I was injured, Sunderland, just being part of the community.
• 57:09
  Well, you did become important on the pitch because 18 months after your last competitive appearance, you're finally back.
• 57:15
  January 2012, Sunderland against Middlesbrough in the FA Cup.
• 57:19
  You come on at halftime, and within 15 minutes you score.
• 57:23
  What did that goal mean to you after all of this you've gone through?
• 57:26
  Honestly, if I don't know how to describe it, it's like I felt like I was in space, like gravity.
• 57:33
  All my weight just scored and I was shouting and screaming and it just felt like all the demons had exited my body and teammates jumping on me and I think...
• 57:43
  I'd missed it.
• 57:44
  That feeling was like a little pat on the back for the last 18 months.
• 57:49
  And all the hard work that I'd done and the hard times, it became instantly worth it.
• 57:58
  And yeah, it was, like I said, a lot of negative energy just lifted off my shoulders.
• 58:03
  And that's probably my favorite goal that I've ever scored.
• 58:06
  And it wasn't like a screamer or...
• 58:09
  in the final of a, it was the third round of the FA Cup or whatever against Middlesbrough, but it meant a lot to me.
• 58:16
  And just three days later, you score again against Norwich.
• 58:19
  You also get an assist.
• 58:21
  Could you believe how quickly, at this point, everything has just changed?
• 58:25
  Yeah, I couldn't and I could at the same time because that's the thing about football.
• 58:30
  One week you can be a villain, next minute you're the hero.
• 58:34
  And say I went from being nowhere near it 18 months prior to the next minute I'm scoring volleys against Norwich in the Premier League game.
• 58:45
  Like the 18 months previous, it never happened.
• 58:49
  So it was, again, it was all a whirlwind.
• 58:53
  It was brilliant.
• 58:55
  And at that point, I think I'm just running off adrenaline because obviously being out for 18 months and then playing two games within the space of three days is a lot for anyone.
• 59:05
  Yeah, I was high.
• 59:06
  I was high on adrenaline and it was just the perfect introduction back into football for me.
• 59:13
  And it doesn't just stop there either, though.
• 59:15
  It gets unbelievable because you spent 18 months out of football.
• 59:19
  You're only back playing for a matter of weeks and England won you in the squad.
• 59:23
  Yeah.
• 59:23
  How did you find out that you've been called up for England?
• 59:27
  I can't remember who told me, but I remember being at training and Martin O'Neill was telling, I can't remember what he was talking about, but anyway, he was like, yeah, so-and-so's going off, and Fred's being called up to the English squad.
• 59:40
  And I remember, like, Keira Richardson, obviously I've known him since I was a kid, he was like, what are you talking about?
• 59:48
  He was like, really?
• 59:49
  I was like, yeah, so he was bantering me at first, but then after a while, everyone was buzzing for me because, like I said, they were all around for the last 18 months.
• 59:57
  They knew exactly how hard it's been for me to get back to the moment I was and then to get that England call-up from Stuart Pearce.
• 1:00:07
  He was my England manager, so he liked me a lot, was...
• 1:00:12
  It was a perfect way to put that 18 months behind.
• 1:00:18
  Yeah, because at one point you didn't think you were going to play football again.
• 1:00:22
  Exactly, yeah.
• 1:00:22
  And a few weeks after that, you're coming back, you're walking out of Wembley with England.
• 1:00:27
  How do you even process that moment when you're walking out?
• 1:00:30
  You don't.
• 1:00:31
  You don't process it.
• 1:00:32
  When you're in the moment, it's like, oh yeah, this is completely normal.
• 1:00:37
  I was nearly retired a year ago, but here I am.
• 1:00:40
  trying to represent my country after scoring a rocket, the Premier League the week before, and then scoring in the FA Cup the week before that.
• 1:00:47
  So it's like, you can't write these things.
• 1:00:50
  And obviously, I'm probably going to mention, my daughter was born the same day, and it was a leap year.
• 1:00:58
  So it was the 29th of Feb.
• 1:01:00
  I've not, yeah, a lot of things, all the stars aligned in that period of three weeks and it was just, it blew me away.
• 1:01:09
  And obviously I'm a happy, positive person as it is, but that 10 days, two weeks was just like one of the happiest moments of my life.
• 1:01:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:21
  It was obviously a very special moment, your daughter being born, you're getting your England Cup.
• 1:01:24
  Did you think at this point, I'm going to get more England Cups?
• 1:01:28
  I'm not even thinking further than the day because it's dangerous to do that.
• 1:01:34
  I was doing that before and ended up injured.
• 1:01:37
  So I just thought, you know what?
• 1:01:38
  I think that was part of my process through my injury thing.
• 1:01:42
  One of the things, the second time anyway, that helped me get through it better was...
• 1:01:46
  Don't look too far ahead into the future.
• 1:01:47
  Just look like the next week, just do the next five days.
• 1:01:51
  Do Monday to Friday.
• 1:01:52
  Think about what you're doing Monday to Friday and take it Monday to Friday every week and reset the weekend and come back again.
• 1:01:58
  So I think I took my injury rehab
• 1:02:02
  into my life and footballing career after that.
• 1:02:06
  And I think it helped me massively.
• 1:02:08
  Of course, I'd have dreamed of playing hundreds of games for England, but to get that one on that one day after what I'd been through
• 1:02:17
  You know, I could have been forced to quit football the night of that game and I'd have been a happy man.
• 1:02:24
  I ticked all the boxes in my life.
• 1:02:26
  You know, when you're a kid, you're dreaming about playing for your boyhood team.
• 1:02:30
  I did that.
• 1:02:32
  I'm playing for England and I did that.
• 1:02:34
  So maybe you want to play for Wales, but...
• 1:02:38
  Well, this is interesting you say that because this takes me to your next chapter.
• 1:02:42
  In January 2013, you joined Cardiff City.
• 1:02:46
  I hope this was a dream for you.
• 1:02:50
  I'm a Newport boy, so it doesn't matter.
• 1:02:52
  But within months, Cardiff are promoted to the Premier League.
• 1:02:55
  What actually attracted you to Cardiff?
• 1:02:59
  So I think on the back of playing for England the next six months, I was in and out of the team at Sunderland.
• 1:03:05
  They got to a point where I wasn't playing regular.
• 1:03:07
  It got to January, I thought, I've had them 18 months where I couldn't play.
• 1:03:11
  I don't want to do that again.
• 1:03:13
  It's been four or five months now.
• 1:03:15
  I'm not playing.
• 1:03:16
  I want to go play football again.
• 1:03:19
  So then Cardiff are on the phone and I was just like, yeah, I'm not fussy where it is.
• 1:03:25
  I just want to go somewhere where I'm appreciated, somewhere I'm going to play football.
• 1:03:29
  I think there were 10 points top of the table.
• 1:03:32
  I thought they're going to be in the Premier League next season, which for me, six months in the champ, build up my fitness, my confidence and back into the Prem.
• 1:03:42
  So it was a...
• 1:03:43
  It was a no-brainer for me to go down there and Cardiff as a club.
• 1:03:48
  There always seemed to be that playoff club to get there or thereabouts and never really make it over the line.
• 1:03:56
  And I think the narrative at the time was they're going to bottle it at some point.
• 1:04:01
  They're going to bottle it and everyone's heart's going to be broken.
• 1:04:04
  And so, yeah, I was excited to join that.
• 1:04:07
  And Wales are obviously such a passionate country.
• 1:04:10
  Yeah.
• 1:04:10
  Probably connected with the Wales free player.
• 1:04:12
  What was it like actually joining a club that's chasing promotion?
• 1:04:15
  And like you said, so much expectation around them.
• 1:04:18
  Yeah.
• 1:04:19
  It was pressure.
• 1:04:20
  But like I said before, I was used to the pressure.
• 1:04:23
  Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  And for me, it was a challenge.
• 1:04:27
  Last time I was in the championship, we got to the player final and we won it.
• 1:04:31
  So I wanted to, this time, kind of a top of the league, I wanted to make sure we stayed there and ended up getting promotion.
• 1:04:39
  I think when I went there in January, played four games, I was the only person to score all the four games.
• 1:04:45
  So it was a perfect start for me.
• 1:04:47
  I got player of the month.
• 1:04:49
  I don't know if I got goal of the month, but I got player of the month.
• 1:04:52
  in the championship, won all the game.
• 1:04:53
  And I thought, yeah, this is top.
• 1:04:57
  City, great city.
• 1:04:59
  Like you said, the people are passionate down there and, yeah, connected instantly with the fans.
• 1:05:05
  Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  During this then, you're back in the Premier League.
• 1:05:09
  Did you feel like you had anything to prove at that level again?
• 1:05:13
  Um...
• 1:05:16
  No, not really.
• 1:05:17
  In my mind, I was a Premier League player that had just had a little stint in the championship at that point.
• 1:05:23
  So, you know, we go into the new season, first game of the season, Man City at home.
• 1:05:30
  So I'm thinking, right, this is a challenge for us, but a challenge that I'm relishing.
• 1:05:36
  As a youngster, you don't dream about playing...
• 1:05:39
  dog and duck in a Premier League game.
• 1:05:42
  You dream about playing against Man United, the Liverpools, the Chelsea's, the Arsenal, the city's now.
• 1:05:49
  So first game of the season, league champions coming down to Cardiff.
• 1:05:54
  And I could not wait for that game.
• 1:05:56
  I was excited, working hard in pre-season.
• 1:05:59
  Everything was geared up to that moment.
• 1:06:04
  But yeah, I wasn't trying to prove that I was worthy.
• 1:06:07
  In my mind, I knew it was a familiar player.
• 1:06:11
  And it was exciting to go out and show that.
• 1:06:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:15
  In 2014, then, you go and join Crystal Palace.
• 1:06:18
  Yeah.
• 1:06:19
  You worked under several different managers during your time there.
• 1:06:23
  How difficult is that for a player?
• 1:06:25
  It's impossible.
• 1:06:28
  In terms of...
• 1:06:31
  football is full of opinions me and you could watch one player play I could think yeah he's great and you could think no he's rubbish, I'm not wrong, you're not wrong but I'm also not right and you're not right it's just an opinion so when you assign for Crystal Palace and Tony Pulis was the manager
• 1:06:51
  And he'd been a Bayern man for a while because when I went to Hull the first time and got promoted, he was the manager at Stoke and he took Ryan Shawcross and we were obviously teammates through the academy at Belgium.
• 1:07:04
  He always said, oh, you didn't tell me to sign your mate.
• 1:07:07
  Signed the wrong United player.
• 1:07:09
  Anyway, so he was there, but he was only there for 10 days.
• 1:07:12
  I don't know if you remember, there was a whole controversy.
• 1:07:15
  I was there for 10 days and he left.
• 1:07:18
  So I was like, well...
• 1:07:19
  I don't really know my teammates that well.
• 1:07:21
  I don't even know who the next manager is going to be.
• 1:07:23
  So then it's just a level playing field.
• 1:07:26
  So when someone brings you in, you've always got that assurance that, you know, if there's a decision between you and somebody that was always there, he's going to play you because, you know, he's bought you.
• 1:07:38
  He went out of his way to bring you to the club.
• 1:07:40
  So it's always difficult.
• 1:07:42
  when a new manager comes in, because you don't know the lay of the land then, you don't know if he's going to like you or not.
• 1:07:48
  And sometimes it's fine, they'll like you more.
• 1:07:51
  And sometimes, you know, they don't like you at all.
• 1:07:54
  But again, I experienced that at Spurs, so it's just another step in the journey.
• 1:08:00
  Do you think having these manager changes can really alter a player's career?
• 1:08:05
  I think so, yeah.
• 1:08:06
  I think if you're doing really well or you're on the verge of doing really well and the manager gets sacked because the team's not doing well, it can put you back six months.
• 1:08:16
  Like I said, when I was at Spurs, I was involved in all the games, starting to build confidence, starting to play well.
• 1:08:22
  Then it got to Christmas time, new manager came in and I didn't really play for the next six months.
• 1:08:27
  So then that six months, I could have...
• 1:08:30
  I'd done really well under a different manager, but I didn't even get the opportunity to do anything under Harry.
• 1:08:37
  I think a manager can make a big difference on certain players' trajectory, but like I said, just get used to it.
• 1:08:46
  You want to be in as little of those situations as possible when you're not playing and try and play as much football as you can.
• 1:08:54
  How do you make that decision though?
• 1:08:55
  So when you're joining the club, I know a lot of times it sounds like you didn't have much choice.
• 1:09:00
  But when you're joining a club, do you ever look at a club and go, okay, that manager's going to be stable.
• 1:09:07
  I'm happy to join them.
• 1:09:08
  Does that ever cross your mind?
• 1:09:12
  It does and it doesn't because I think modern day football now, managers are changing.
• 1:09:18
  If you spent three years at a club, you're doing really well.
• 1:09:22
  So you can't plan on a manager being there the whole time you're there.
• 1:09:28
  So it's really difficult to get a feel for where you should go.
• 1:09:32
  You've just got to try and...
• 1:09:34
  find the place that feels the best, like whether it's the teammates, the manager, the league they're in, or it might just be about how much money they're going to pay you.
• 1:09:44
  There's loads of things that add together to make a decision, but I don't think it's really difficult because managers are always changing.
• 1:09:54
  Yeah, for sure.
• 1:09:55
  And in 2017 then, almost a decade after you've helped Hull reach the Premier League for the first time, you go back there.
• 1:10:04
  Why did you want to return back to Hull City?
• 1:10:08
  I wanted to play football again.
• 1:10:11
  Again, I was at Palace and I wasn't playing towards the back end of that.
• 1:10:16
  And yeah, I wanted to come back up north.
• 1:10:20
  I've got two kids and a third on the way at this stage and I wanted to be close to babysitters.
• 1:10:25
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:26
  So we moved back to Yorkshire and, you know, I went back to Hull.
• 1:10:32
  But it was interesting this time because obviously the first time struggling, championship, no ambition to go up and, you know, we made it happen.
• 1:10:42
  And this time it just come down from the Premier League and it was a transition type of period for the club and they wanted to get some stability and, you know, go back up into the Premier League.
• 1:10:53
  So...
• 1:10:54
  It was nice to go there a second time and be on the opposite end of the scale where I was the Dean Windass of the team rather than myself.
• 1:11:03
  So, you know, Gerard Bowen was there at the time.
• 1:11:05
  I was a 19-year-old kid.
• 1:11:08
  He was just starting on his career.
• 1:11:09
  So, it was nice to have that.
• 1:11:12
  It was kind of the same kind of comparison.
• 1:11:14
  Obviously, we didn't do as well.
• 1:11:15
  I was at the Hull the second time.
• 1:11:17
  But it was nice to be in that experienced role and for a club that, you know, was probably the start of my career.
• 1:11:24
  my career did it feel like the same club at all going back um yes and no i had all the good feelings from last time um but like i said he was a the club itself was in a different position they had a lot of expectation and the second time whereas the first time they'd have just been happy to to finish mid mid table so
• 1:11:46
  expectation level was higher.
• 1:11:49
  A lot of players that played in the Premier League had stayed and questioned about how good some of the players were.
• 1:11:57
  So, yeah, it was a different feeling, but the core value of the club was still very much working close-hand, working team and connected to the fans.
• 1:12:09
  And going back somewhere that you left with such amazing memories, ever live up to the first time?
• 1:12:17
  No, no.
• 1:12:18
  Yes and no.
• 1:12:19
  So, obviously, if it had gone back and would have won promotion again, it would have been probably similar kind of feelings, but...
• 1:12:26
  I think I felt different at the time.
• 1:12:29
  You know, I wasn't as young.
• 1:12:30
  I was in just turn 30, I think, when I went back there.
• 1:12:33
  So I wasn't as agile as I used to be.
• 1:12:37
  But like I said, the club had had a lot of different experiences to being up and down in the Premier League and to get back.
• 1:12:44
  So I...
• 1:12:46
  yeah going back a second time you hope that it's going to be the same but it was never going to be the same because you know I wasn't the same same player I wasn't the same person I was more mature they had a different role within the change but I I equally enjoyed it I think that's the first place I went where I was like
• 1:13:07
  a leader in dressing room people was listening to what I was starting to say looking up to me because they knew that I'd done being in there and done it uh so I think that was the start of my my um coaching voice but being part of that hierarchy did they put you in the same hotel when you first joined no I lived in Huddersfield I drove back and forth every day it was like an hour and a half every day but wow
• 1:13:32
  My kids were settled in school and some of that.
• 1:13:34
  Family life was settled, so I didn't want them to halt again.
• 1:13:40
  So I just thought, get them set up in Huddersfield and just commute.
• 1:13:44
  Well, that actually brings us to your career, doing a full circle.
• 1:13:49
  You grew up in Huddersfield and left home chasing this dream.
• 1:13:54
  And at the end of your career, you finally get to represent the club that you grew up.
• 1:13:58
  Is this, is it something you always wanted to do?
• 1:14:01
  It sounds nice, doesn't it?
• 1:14:03
  It's, um,
• 1:14:05
  It wasn't something I always wanted to do because, like I said, Huddersfield told me I wasn't good enough when I was 10.
• 1:14:09
  So the first seven, eight years, I hated them.
• 1:14:12
  Every time we played Huddersfield, I was running around extra, putting a little bit extra in my tackles and I was desperate to beat them because...
• 1:14:21
  You know, they shunned me.
• 1:14:23
  Maybe that shun was what I needed to, you know, to have that desire in my belly to do well.
• 1:14:28
  But to come back at the end to Huddersfield was, you know, it was nice for me.
• 1:14:34
  Because when I was living in Huddersfield, people were looking at me as to say, is that him?
• 1:14:40
  Is it him?
• 1:14:41
  But obviously when I was playing for Huddersfield, it was mental.
• 1:14:44
  Like, obviously they knew I was there.
• 1:14:47
  Obviously my family, all my family's from Huddersfield.
• 1:14:50
  So...
• 1:14:51
  I went to school with your dad.
• 1:14:52
  Oh, I used to work at this shop with your mom.
• 1:14:54
  I used to do this.
• 1:14:55
  I've not seen you since you were this big.
• 1:14:57
  So I got all that, which was...
• 1:14:58
  It was nostalgic for the first six months.
• 1:15:01
  And then I just found myself hiding in Sainsbury's just keeping my head down and stuff.
• 1:15:05
  But it was nice to...
• 1:15:08
  It was nice to let my family, not just my immediate family, but my aunties and my cousins see what it was like while I'd been moving around the country.
• 1:15:16
  They've come to all the odd games and stuff, but they're not being there for the majority of it.
• 1:15:21
  But when it's in our hometown and everyone's talking about it every week, it was nice for them to experience that and get to see a little glimpse of what it's been like for me for the past 17 years or what.
• 1:15:35
  it was nice.
• 1:15:35
  Yeah, this is probably, like you said, extra special knowing that they rejected you.
• 1:15:40
  Did you feel at the end of this that this was the right time to call it a day on your football career knowing you've now done that as well?
• 1:15:47
  Yeah, so when I was at Huddersfield, I think, obviously we've got B in the playoff final.
• 1:15:51
  I think if we'd have won that game,
• 1:15:56
  I might have thought, I'll just give it another year just to play in the Premier League one more time.
• 1:16:02
  But that would have been the perfect, you know, see you later moment got in the Premier League.
• 1:16:08
  I'm done now.
• 1:16:11
  Like you said, full circle back.
• 1:16:13
  But yeah, when I finished there, I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted to do.
• 1:16:20
  I just thought, you know what, I'm going to keep fit over the summer and see what comes up.
• 1:16:25
  And then I was getting offers to go abroad, India, Japan.
• 1:16:31
  But then I was getting offers like down south, Midland.
• 1:16:35
  I was like...
• 1:16:37
  And then one of the clubs offered me a deal.
• 1:16:41
  I won't tell you the name of the club.
• 1:16:42
  And I won't even tell you how much they offered.
• 1:16:44
  But I thought to myself, I could go work in McDonald's part time.
• 1:16:48
  And by the time I travel back and forth to this club every week, I get more money working at McDonald's.
• 1:16:53
  So why am I doing that?
• 1:16:54
  Why am I killing myself driving two, three hours a day?
• 1:16:58
  that I could just go work for Deliveroo or Uber Eats or Just Eat or whatever.
• 1:17:03
  The money was that bad?
• 1:17:05
  No, the money was good, but because it was so far away...
• 1:17:09
  Okay, it was costing you more in travel.
• 1:17:11
  Yeah, so I'd have to pay to fill up my car £100 a time.
• 1:17:14
  I'd have to pay for a hotel a couple of times a week.
• 1:17:16
  Surely they'd cover that.
• 1:17:18
  No.
• 1:17:19
  If you're on loan, they might do.
• 1:17:20
  But if you're getting paid, whatever.
• 1:17:23
  It just didn't make any sense.
• 1:17:25
  Yeah.
• 1:17:26
  And at that stage, I thought...
• 1:17:28
  Am I being a bit selfish here, just trying to chase the dream for a little bit longer, when in reality, I can just stay at home and just not do that and do something based around Yorkshire or Manchester or whatever.
• 1:17:43
  So, yeah, I called it quits after a few months of getting these dodgy offers.
• 1:17:49
  Yeah, well, it's interesting you say it because you retired at 34.
• 1:17:53
  I actually watched you in a Legends match against Southampton.
• 1:17:58
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:17:58
  And you scored two goals that day.
• 1:18:01
  Yeah.
• 1:18:01
  I actually posted these videos online and they went everywhere.
• 1:18:05
  And the comments all over these videos, and I'll show you it at some point, the comments, why is he still not playing?
• 1:18:11
  And this is at 38 years old.
• 1:18:13
  You are unbelievable in this game.
• 1:18:16
  Could you have played for longer?
• 1:18:17
  100%, yeah.
• 1:18:19
  I could have definitely played for another, a high standard anyway, for another two, three years.
• 1:18:25
  Like I said, it didn't fit in my family's plans.
• 1:18:31
  I'd have had to move everyone around and...
• 1:18:34
  It gets difficult because when you're used to, like obviously my education football was from Man United.
• 1:18:40
  We had certain standards from 10 to the left there at 21.
• 1:18:43
  And then at other clubs, I had the same, similar kind of standards.
• 1:18:46
  But as you start to go down the leagues, which I would have had to, standards are slipping.
• 1:18:53
  Even locally, as I got off to playing a local team, I was like, all right, okay, I'll come up and watch the game.
• 1:19:01
  chatting to a few of the players after, yeah, I only had, like, felt good today.
• 1:19:04
  I only had seven pints last night.
• 1:19:06
  Like, what?
• 1:19:06
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:19:08
  It's like a different... Why am I killing myself when half the team are having seven or eight pints?
• 1:19:14
  And that's fine, because that's your level.
• 1:19:16
  That's your standard.
• 1:19:17
  But I don't think I'll be able to deal with that.
• 1:19:19
  And I'm turning up.
• 1:19:20
  I'm expecting you to put 110% in.
• 1:19:22
  I don't want to smell what you've been drinking last night.
• 1:19:26
  It's not...
• 1:19:27
  good enough, so then I'm not taking it seriously, so then why am I doing it?
• 1:19:31
  So it's, yeah, I could have definitely played for a bit longer, but I think my body's all working still now.
• 1:19:41
  Some people I know have knee replacements, hip replacements in the 40s, so I don't want to do that either.
• 1:19:48
  Yeah, because we're talking literally, you're 38 now, right?
• 1:19:51
  Yeah, 39 now.
• 1:19:51
  39, yes, sorry, 39, so this was only...
• 1:19:55
  I don't know if it was the back end of the lot.
• 1:19:56
  It might have been this year.
• 1:19:58
  It was March.
• 1:19:59
  Yeah, it was this year.
• 1:20:00
  It was this year at St. Mary's Stadium.
• 1:20:01
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:02
  You can definitely still play.
• 1:20:04
  I can move around still a little bit.
• 1:20:06
  But it's like I've got three young kids and I'm running around with them and I do a bit of coaching and stuff now.
• 1:20:13
  So I'm still moving.
• 1:20:15
  But yeah, I struggled the days after.
• 1:20:17
  So I played well in that game where I couldn't walk for about four days.
• 1:20:23
  you shared the dressing room with some unbelievable players we've mentioned so many names during this Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tevez Rio Ferdinand, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs Luka Modric Gareth Bale
• 1:20:36
  I could go on.
• 1:20:37
  You've played with some unbelievable players.
• 1:20:39
  Everyone talks about Ronaldo's mentality.
• 1:20:42
  I know we touched upon it briefly earlier, but what was he actually like to be around?
• 1:20:47
  He just wanted to be the best.
• 1:20:50
  Probably heard it a million times, but he was first in and last out.
• 1:20:54
  I just...
• 1:20:55
  My memory of him was out early doing the finishing, re-kicks or whatever, and then after, just going and dribbling around Carrington, around all the pitches, just dribbling the ball at his feet after training the finish.
• 1:21:13
  Just his dedication to his craft was second to none.
• 1:21:19
  He went away for one summer, and we had the squiggly blonde bits in his hair,
• 1:21:25
  I don't think he'd stopped training since the end of the season to the start of the next.
• 1:21:29
  And he just like got wings and stuff.
• 1:21:32
  Like lats had gone massive and he's like chiseled.
• 1:21:35
  So I was thinking, this guy's serious about what he's doing.
• 1:21:39
  And yeah, but it wasn't just that.
• 1:21:41
  It was...
• 1:21:42
  If he's playing football, I'm going to be the best at the free kicks that we're doing.
• 1:21:46
  If we're playing table tennis, I'm the best at table tennis.
• 1:21:48
  If you're doing weights, I'm going to do more weights than you.
• 1:21:51
  Swimming, I'm going to be you in a swim.
• 1:21:53
  He was just like competing on every front.
• 1:21:58
  And that's just...
• 1:22:00
  I know people that can do that for a little burst.
• 1:22:03
  I'm not in burst, but 24-7, seven days a week, year on, year out, to do that, you've got to be a little bit nuts.
• 1:22:12
  And it's not a surprise that he's had the success that he's had because he's putting the work, he's putting the dedication,
• 1:22:20
  Added with his ability and his talent and his football intelligence, he's grafted really hard to get where he is.
• 1:22:28
  And, you know, it's obvious to see.
• 1:22:30
  And when you're around that and you're seeing this, obviously you've mentioned a few times in this that everything felt like the norm.
• 1:22:37
  This doesn't sound like the norm to me.
• 1:22:39
  Did you think at this point, this guy is going to be the best?
• 1:22:43
  I don't know.
• 1:22:43
  I don't know.
• 1:22:44
  Because maybe not at the time... Like, in his early years, maybe not thought, this guy's going to be the best in the world.
• 1:22:51
  Because he was doing...
• 1:22:52
  He was overdoing it.
• 1:22:53
  He was doing too many step-overs.
• 1:22:55
  And lads were screaming at him and shouting at him.
• 1:22:59
  But...
• 1:23:00
  he had always had the confidence to be like, okay, I'm going to do it again, do something again, keep going.
• 1:23:05
  And then like when he, he'd run out a defender, the defender took it off him.
• 1:23:09
  He won't sulk and his head go down.
• 1:23:11
  Keep doing the same thing, the repeated actions, which is a sign of, you know, top player because, you know, you're constantly trying to learn, all right, he did that to me there.
• 1:23:22
  I'm going to adjust that.
• 1:23:23
  I'm going to do this.
• 1:23:24
  And he's constantly working on his game and,
• 1:23:27
  and he's not scared of failure because you have to fail in order to succeed.
• 1:23:31
  And he could see that from an early age, and he was willing to learn.
• 1:23:36
  So I've seen kids that have got great talent, technical, but they don't listen.
• 1:23:44
  So you've got someone like Roy Keane telling you, don't do this, don't do that.
• 1:23:46
  You keep doing the same thing and not adjusting it at all, then they're going to get annoyed with you, and then you're going to start getting battered and your confidence is going to drop.
• 1:23:56
  They were telling him things, and he was taking it in, and he was doing things, extra things, and he could see how hard he was.
• 1:24:02
  So he was destined to do well.
• 1:24:07
  But at first, I don't think anyone would have said, yeah, he's going to be the best player in the world by a mile.
• 1:24:13
  But now, after a few years, you thought, well,
• 1:24:16
  the signs are there because he's doing everything he can and he's got a great frame his mentality like I said was second to one and he's he was a fantastic still is footballer 41 yes mental absolutely mental so the other names that we've mentioned honestly we can't push them aside they're unbelievable but
• 1:24:36
  Two I want to talk about here is, and it's a question to you, if you had one game you needed to win, and you got to choose a left winger, your choices are between Ryan Giggs and Gareth Bale.
• 1:24:49
  Who are you choosing?
• 1:24:50
  Prime.
• 1:24:51
  Prime.
• 1:24:52
  Oh, my God.
• 1:24:57
  That's a horrible question, that.
• 1:24:59
  Why would you ask me that?
• 1:25:01
  I love them both.
• 1:25:01
  They're both Welsh.
• 1:25:02
  Both Welsh wizards.
• 1:25:04
  I'm going to have to say Giggs here.
• 1:25:06
  Because he did it for, what, 800 games or whatever it was?
• 1:25:10
  Yeah.
• 1:25:11
  But either is a great option.
• 1:25:15
  I was lucky enough to share a dressing room with both of them, and they were just...
• 1:25:20
  I think Ryan doesn't get the praise he deserves because he was an unbelievable footballer.
• 1:25:27
  Some of the goals he scored and the fact that he's played so many games for such an illustrious team and won literally everything.
• 1:25:37
  He's a brilliant player, but equally Gareth Bale over a kick Champions League final.
• 1:25:43
  Yeah.
• 1:25:45
  top, top level, top player.
• 1:25:47
  Some of the stuff we did to Mike on Inter, scored four, did he score four or a hat-trick in the Champions League for Spurs against Inter Milan?
• 1:25:56
  I think it was a hat-trick.
• 1:25:57
  Yeah.
• 1:25:58
  I should know this.
• 1:25:59
  I should know this.
• 1:26:00
  But stuff like that, and Mike on obviously was a world-famous right-back and absolutely took him to the cleanest side.
• 1:26:08
  either I could flip a coin I think you know I'm going to go for Giggs because we're in Manchester aren't we yeah well the reason why I ask that question is we all know Gareth Bale has had some game winning moments but then you know there's Ryan Giggs FA Cup and then the longevity of what a player he was and one of the Manchester greats
• 1:26:27
  You also played under some huge names.
• 1:26:31
  Let me read out some of the managers as well.
• 1:26:33
  This is just a few of the ones you played.
• 1:26:35
  You got Sir Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp, Steve Bruce, Martin O'Neill, Olly Gunnar Solskjaer, Tony Pulis, Alan Pardew.
• 1:26:41
  Some massive characters in there.
• 1:26:42
  Yeah.
• 1:26:42
  Who did you enjoy playing under the most?
• 1:26:46
  Um, probably Steve Bruce.
• 1:26:48
  Probably I played the most under him.
• 1:26:50
  Um, he just gave me freedom to just, just like I worked hard constantly.
• 1:26:56
  And then if I put some flair onto that, yeah, I would.
• 1:26:59
  And he knew, um, how to keep me, you know, like confidence.
• 1:27:04
  Um,
• 1:27:05
  went to have a go at me, went to put his arm around me a bit and he just understood where I was at.
• 1:27:10
  So I really enjoyed, obviously if I'd have played more under Sir Alex, that would have been fantastic, but a few games is not really enough.
• 1:27:19
  But yeah, I'd probably say Steve, which is the one that I enjoyed playing under the most.
• 1:27:24
  Well, this leads me to a real tough question again that I'm going to ask you now.
• 1:27:29
  And if you had to play one more game under a manager to save their job,
• 1:27:35
  Out of those managers there that I've just mentioned, or another one, but I'm presuming it's going to be one of them.
• 1:27:40
  To save them.
• 1:27:41
  Who would it be?
• 1:27:45
  What?
• 1:27:48
  I'd like to think Sir Alex wouldn't need his job serving.
• 1:27:50
  So probably wouldn't want to...
• 1:27:51
  The hell of a story.
• 1:27:52
  Yeah, what's happened here?
• 1:27:56
  I'd just go Steve Bruce again because I got on with him really well.
• 1:28:00
  And yeah, loyalty in football.
• 1:28:03
  I'd want him to keep his job.
• 1:28:07
  Do you still speak with Steve?
• 1:28:08
  Every now and again, yes.
• 1:28:09
  I bump into him in functions and stuff like that.
• 1:28:11
  I don't speak to him regular.
• 1:28:12
  At the start, I asked you, who inspired you growing up?
• 1:28:16
  I'm going to ask you the same question now so who inspires you now?
• 1:28:19
  like when I was younger I wanted to be a footballer and that was you know footballers were my inspiration like I said my dad and my uncle were life they inspired they were inspiring in terms of where we came from and what they were doing with their life so I'd probably still say my dad and my uncle inspire me still um
• 1:28:44
  But I'm a dad now.
• 1:28:46
  My dad now, I'm doing a bit of media and stuff.
• 1:28:48
  So just other people in the same lanes are inspiring.
• 1:28:55
  So like your story, for example, not been doing it long, a hundred thousand people following you.
• 1:29:01
  That's meant I enjoy stuff.
• 1:29:02
  I enjoy it.
• 1:29:04
  seeing stories like that, really positive stories.
• 1:29:08
  I take my inspiration from everyday things, just people, good people, doing well.
• 1:29:15
  That's amazing to hear that.
• 1:29:17
  I mean, it's the first time someone's answered like that, especially having me on their inspiration list.
• 1:29:21
  Well, not you.
• 1:29:23
  No, you said it.
• 1:29:24
  You said it, you said it, all right?
• 1:29:25
  You know what I mean?
• 1:29:26
  We'll cut that there.
• 1:29:29
  Nah, people are inspiring.
• 1:29:30
  There's a lot of people doing a lot of good things.
• 1:29:34
  And it's not easy.
• 1:29:35
  Like some people, to be an influencer, I just think you take a few pictures, but the amount of travelling you've done, the research you're doing, finding guys behind the cameras.
• 1:29:45
  Have a look.
• 1:29:46
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:29:49
  It takes a lot and it's good to see people doing well.
• 1:29:53
  I appreciate it.
• 1:29:54
  Well, when you look back,
• 1:29:55
  But when you look at young players suffering their first injury now, do you ever feel like...
• 1:30:02
  your experience gives you something valuable to tell them?
• 1:30:07
  Yeah.
• 1:30:09
  Like I said, touched on it briefly before, you've got to fail sometimes to succeed.
• 1:30:15
  And I think my failings, my injury and whatnot, helped me come back a stronger-minded person in a probably physically...
• 1:30:26
  better condition, looked after my body more.
• 1:30:28
  So if I can pass that message on to other young footballers, potentially and hopefully before they have these big injuries so they can get their mind right before they have it, might not have these injuries.
• 1:30:42
  So, you know, yeah, I think it's important.
• 1:30:45
  Knowledge is key.
• 1:30:46
  Passing it on to future generations, not just footballers, but just, you know, just young human beings.
• 1:30:53
  What would you say to a 20-year-old?
• 1:30:55
  Let's say a 20-year-old right now has just done their ACL.
• 1:31:00
  Yeah.
• 1:31:00
  What would you say to them?
• 1:31:03
  You're not the first person to ever do it.
• 1:31:05
  You're definitely not going to be the last.
• 1:31:07
  So there's people out there that can help you in your situation.
• 1:31:11
  Speak to someone.
• 1:31:13
  Speak to a physio that knows someone that's worked in a club.
• 1:31:18
  I don't know if they're in a club or not, but...
• 1:31:20
  There's always people to talk to, get advice, don't try and do it on your own, because it's important that you get these things right.
• 1:31:28
  A lot of people out there that have got, like me for example, done it twice myself.
• 1:31:34
  Both times I did it different ways and it's,
• 1:31:39
  There's no textbook way to treat one thing.
• 1:31:42
  So it's best to get as many opinions and many different people.
• 1:31:48
  I mean, to look at your scenario and try and find the best cost of action.
• 1:31:52
  Well, Fraser, you joined Man United at 10 years old from your home in Huddersfield.
• 1:31:56
  Yeah.
• 1:31:56
  You left England to play football in Belgium.
• 1:31:58
  You helped Hull City into the Premier League for the first time.
• 1:32:01
  Played for teams like Man United, Tottenham in the Premier League.
• 1:32:06
  You came back from two ACL injuries and...
• 1:32:09
  the same knee and just weeks after returning for 18 months injury you make your debut for England at Wembley if you could just give one piece of advice to a 10 year old boy who has just been scouted for the first time
• 1:32:24
  what would it be?
• 1:32:26
  Keep dreaming?
• 1:32:28
  Because, you know, it's going to be a roller coaster that you're on.
• 1:32:31
  There's going to be some good bits in it.
• 1:32:33
  Mentioned there, and there's going to be some low bits, but, you know, I'm super positive.
• 1:32:39
  I always try and do everything I do with a smile on my face and see the fun side of it because...
• 1:32:45
  things happen really quick uh sometimes you've got control of them sometimes you don't but you've just got to learn to find a way to be content with that and enjoy the ride because if you just you just said to me read those things out that you've just done when i was 10 years old i would have been absolutely buzzing so you know i feel the same way now you've read them out and it
• 1:33:10
  So, yeah, it's been a journey, and I've enjoyed every moment of it.
• 1:33:14
  So, yeah, any young lad that's on the start of it, just enjoy it, embrace it, and see what it takes.
• 1:33:20
  Well, he's a combo.
• 1:33:22
  Absolute legend.
• 1:33:23
  Cheers, pal.
• 1:33:23
  Appreciate it.