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Wayne Cella | The Christian Reeve Podcast #189 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
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podcast. Today's guest is a filmmaker,
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hailing, all the way from New Jersey in the United States is
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named as Wayne camera. Welcome to the show.
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How you doing? I'm doing well, thank you for
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for having me. It's just pleasure.
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It's an honor. It's been.
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Yeah, I've had quite a few shows lately where I've just been
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doing, like, what I call it discussion shows, which just me,
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and it's somewhat new territory because I'm used to, obviously
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interviewing people on the show and And you know, every every
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show is different, sometimes it's more formal, sometimes it's
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more laid back, you know, but that kind of keeps it
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interesting and keep it a challenge for me.
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Yeah. And it's what we're on their
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toes. Well, no, it's where's yeah,
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it's more like I get kept on my toes to be honest, I can never,
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I could never sleep on things. I always do the same amount of
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research every single time, but you know, they'll have the
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research and then I'll probably won't even look at it is the
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reality. But yeah.
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No, I mean, but But what I wanted to say is that like you
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did a bunch of these discussion shows read lately and then I
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don't know. I feel like I get rusty did any
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like if I'm not doing it like every single week and then I
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have a new guest I suddenly get a bit like that today before the
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show I got bit jittery and I was like, oh, I hope I wouldn't mess
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up low. I'm sure it'll be fine.
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That's wait. Okay, let's just jump into like
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your early Beginnings. How did you get into filmmaking?
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Wow. Excuse me, essentially.
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Like I really got into writing, I think at a young age, I think
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I see I wrote my first like, it was like 150 page murder mystery
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at like 15 years old with a good friend of mine and like that
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happened. And then a couple years later,
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like I started making short films and writing with another
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group of friends. So I was like, 18, 19 years old
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and, you know, unfortunately, creative Endeavors, don't always
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pay the bills and so, you know, I pursued stability, right?
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And I think that's what we all kind of do.
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And I really didn't ya. So, I just never heard explain
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like that, like that, that's brilliant.
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Yeah. I am also pursuing stability,
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stability, wish, and wishing that I could pursue.
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Creativity. But anyway God yeah, exactly.
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And so for like 20 years I didn't really do anything.
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I didn't write wasn't creative. Wow.
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And then I moved to Connecticut for my day job my real job and I
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met this group of guys that I worked with essentially and we
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would take breaks together and they would like talk nonsense.
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But they They would tell these stories and make up these
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characters. And, and it was all very like
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silly, but it kind of got the wheels turning and at some point
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one of them was like, Hey, like like we should make this a movie
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and, and I was like, yeah, you know?
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Yeah, we should. And so I wrote it, I wrote that
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the script. It was the first time in 20
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years that I'd really done anything and it was a
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feature-length Life like, you know, 95 page script and I'm
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still very proud of that script, but nothing's ever happened with
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it, but it was it was a fun story.
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It was a it had some touching elements to it, at the same
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time, all very silly and you know goofy but it kind of like
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stoke, the fire, you know, for so long.
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I'd kind of like tried to stay away from That.
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And and really, I feel like I like made a concerted effort to
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not be creative and and suddenly, it was like, okay,
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well, like this the seems to be calling to me.
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I need to do it. And so I made a short film in
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Connecticut, and then we wound up, moving back to New Jersey
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shortly after. And you know, I wrote a couple
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things, I was always writing shooting, you know, Little micro
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shorts or short, films, or whatever.
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Some of them didn't even have dialogue.
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And then, at some point in, in December of 2017, we were on
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Christmas break and I wrote a short film called Talisman.
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And that kind of really, really got everything going.
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So, yeah, I wrote this, this short, I really like It.
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I shared it with my best friend who is also a writer very
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talented, John Manning and I said you know like what do you
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think? And he was like I think we have
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something here so he kind of you know, chaichol, John the script
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doctor basically he you know I write everything.
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It all comes out in this Big Blob and then John link molds it
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into something and makes it sound pretty essentially.
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And so John, like, kind of took a pass at it. and and we had a
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script and it was I mean I think January of 2018 by this point
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and it just sat there and but I kept thinking about it and like
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I said, I had shot some short films, but nothing You know, I
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used my friends as actors and you know whatever resources I
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had available essentially and but in May I don't know what
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happened but I was driving home from work one night and I was
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like you know what? Like I'm going to put up a
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casting call like I'm not going to work with friends when I hire
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actors. They'll be committed because I'm
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paying them, right? And I went home that night.
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We were getting ready to eat dinner and I hit submit on the
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casting call, you know? And it was just it was
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essentially four characters and I went and ate dinner, and you
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know what? 10, 15 minutes later after we
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were done eating dinner, it's getting ready to do the dishes,
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essentially, and I checked and I had like 30 submissions for, for
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these roles and I was like, wow, like Like I wasn't expecting
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that and then all of a sudden I got like really overwhelmed and
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I'm like, whoa, you know, did I do the right thing?
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But we went the next few weeks. We went through kind of the
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casting process. We got self tapes from from
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actors, one of the actors actually you've interviewed
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before Colin roach know and yeah and so we wound up.
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You know, getting our cast together and and we shot the
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short film and it turned out really well.
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It was that a I feel like at a higher level than anything I had
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ever done before and we had so much fun that I feel like what
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as soon as we called rap I started talking to the cast and
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crew and I was like you know we're going to turn this into a
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web series like we need to be back together.
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They had great chemistry as a A team and yeah, like I said it
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was so much fun. I was like, let's do it again.
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And so a year later we came back and we filmed the rest of
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Talisman the series which is available on Amazon Prime and a
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couple of other streaming that works.
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So that's kind of how it all started.
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So much to unpack the side this straight off the bat like I
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think there's something to be said for, like, when your
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creative work, or any kind of work that you're doing, like
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when you enjoy it more, like, I remember like when I first
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started this podcast, for example, in the very beginning,
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it's not to say, they didn't enjoy it but like, you know, as
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very formal with it, and I was trying really hard and, you
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know, as my focus was always do the most, the biggest numbers or
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like, how to make it look professional or this or that the
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other rope And I got really bogged down with it and I'd
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sometimes I'd sit and complain about on my live streams about
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not having enough listeners or whatever.
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And then somewhere I started listening to my livestream
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audience and my community and they were like stop focusing on
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the numbers and just start focusing on why you do this, you
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know. Yeah.
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And then that was also right around the time that I really
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started giving acting a push and pursuing that and I started to
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realize like the best thing you can do if you're a creative.
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Is to focus Your Mind Set On creating the best art that you
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can and making that your focus like everything else is
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immaterial like. Yeah.
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Great. You want to make money?
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Yeah. Great.
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You want to be successful like all these things.
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We all want these things but like when you're enjoying it I
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know it sounds like really basic obvious thing to say but Take
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this podcasters and example, I enjoyed this podcast.
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Hell of a model more than I did. I mean, it's every time I sit
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down to do it, I enjoy it. I love it and I remember why I
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do it right? And it's it has nothing to do
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with any of the things. The goals that I have for it's
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just I'm here to have a good conversation with someone
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showcase them have some chemistry whatever hopefully put
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something out that people will want to listen to etc etc.
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And I think when it comes to filmmaking and And the Arts and
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everything, is it same principle.
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You know, if you enjoy the people, you work with what you
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produce is just going to be better, it's because it's people
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can see through these things as well.
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You know, they can, they absolutely can.
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I totally agree with her and it's funny.
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I had a podcast years ago again with with my my co-writer and
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best friend. John Manning we did a podcast.
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It was actually when I was in Connecticut and even that I
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guess is kind of a precursor It's a kind of getting that
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creative juices flowing again but but same kind of experience,
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you know, in the beginning, we started out super serious.
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And this is what it's going to be and I'm like, a planner to
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the point that it's absurd. Sometimes I feel like I'm a
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little OCD at times, and yeah, but it was only when we kind of
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just let go and really started having a Conversation as two
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friends that I feel like we found our groove and really
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started to enjoy it. So yeah, I totally relate to
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that and and to your point, you know, when, when you enjoy what
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you're doing and you're passionate about it, it really
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does shine through. And, you know, it's funny
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because Talisman went on to do all these crazy things that you
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want me to best director in a drama series.
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That's actually for the new Is yeah.
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Oh no. No, we won.
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I won best director in a Sci-Fi 44.
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Talisman. Yeah, we played festivals all
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around the world and it was like, seriously mind-boggling,
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you know, because honestly, all I wanted to do was was, you
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know, make a short film or that wound up, becoming a web series,
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and just tell a good story and have a good time.
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Time and I think because we were able to accomplish that, you
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know, like I said, we played festivals around the globe, we
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won some awards and it was just like this whole mind-boggling
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experience that was like, wow. Like I'm doing, you know, or I
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did what I loved and and was passionate about and it really
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just it seemed to resonate and really work out well.
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So, It was a great experience at.
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This is what I had one thing to this as well.
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When I think about all my heroes and acting and music like they
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only really started properly shining through when it was very
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clear that money and fame and everything is like the least of
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their concerns you know? I mean it's sex.
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Yes. Like I look at like I was lucky
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enough to work on a Christopher Nolan movie is just as that's
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awesome. It was a lot of fun.
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And I think one thing that I realized is that I don't, don't
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get me wrong. Of course that guy.
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Wants big box office money but the guy's been a millionaire for
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many many years. Like I doubt, right.
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Like you can tell that it's passionate like he's got an
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obsession with like telling a story and having it look a
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certain way and kind of being your like you'll notice that all
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of his films, kind of fit that brief just like Tarantino or
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whoever. It's like they all fit a certain
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brief and they tell a certain tail and like he they always
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feel big I don't know how else to put it, like a big deal.
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Like this is something you need to see like colors.
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Exactly, right. Like a spectacle like a
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spectacle, right? And it's feel like as as
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creators as performers, like, that's always the biggest Goal,
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isn't it to try? And see how far we can push
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this? Like, how, how big can this be?
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Where? Can this go, like, what can we
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do? What can we achieve with this?
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Like, I mean, I really think if your mindset is just the, sky's,
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the limit, and let's just focus on making this, as good as it
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can be. Who knows where I'll go, you
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know. Yeah, absolutely.
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No. No, you're absolutely right.
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And you know it's funny because for Talisman we had we had this
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table really great. I was very like Focused on doing
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everything properly. And so we had this table read
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and I remember at the end of the table, read first off, I was
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like, blown away because it was the first time I'd seen actors.
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You know, performing as opposed to my friend's saying some
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lines, right big difference, big deal.
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And so I was very blown away but everybody was like, okay like
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what happens after we film this? Like what's the intention?
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And I was like, well You know, we'll put it in some festivals
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and, you know, we'll see what happens and they're like, okay,
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you know, like that's a, that's a sound strategy, right?
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I mean that makes sense but in the meantime I'm like I have no
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freaking idea if anybody's going to want to, you know, put this
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this little short film or show into a festival.
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So it was almost like, I feel like when you're creative, you
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have to have some audacity. Yeah, you know, I think.
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I told this story on the podcast the other day but well maybe I
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might be, I haven't maybe, I haven't maybe I've only told it
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on the live stream. I saw a video on Tick, Tock a
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while back where this girl was talking about how she liked her
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mother had lived with Bruce Willis before he became famous.
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Like hell yeah. Like in the early 80s or
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something when he was just dirt poor and just had nothing and
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apparently she'd said that He like she knew he was going to be
15:33
a big deal from day one because of the way he carried himself
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and because of the way he was and then her daughter sort of
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said that to be successful in this industry that we're trying
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to go into. You do gotta be a bit audacious
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and or egotistical and but it's not like I think I'm better than
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everyone. It's I think I'm good enough and
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that acts. So that's so hard to explain to
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people who've got like a negative mindset or like because
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they're just Be like oh you think a lot of yourself and it's
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like yeah I do but not for the reasons that you think it's like
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I think a lot of myself because I want to get somewhere with
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this. I think I believe in my heart
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and my soul that I am destined for big things and it's just a
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matter of time and it's maybe maybe it is an egotistical
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thing. I don't know but I don't sit
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there thinking. I'm better than anyone else.
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I just think we all need a shot in life and that we all have
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different, you know, me. Like I look at people that do, I
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don't know. Things that completely
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different. Like they say.
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I look like a ballerina, right? Just for, I can hear right?
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Somewhat person putting in like ton that years and years and
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years and years of work into that to then pull off an amazing
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performance. And I look at that in or and
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just go that and that's incredible.
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And that's what I look at everything in life.
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Not just Arts, but just everything in life.
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Like sometimes I like to call it Flow State.
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Like, he just, you're in, you're in your Zone and you're doing
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whatever you're doing and only, you can do it in that.
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That way in? Do you know what I mean?
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Like, when you're absolutely. Yeah.
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Totally confident. And you know what you're doing
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and you just you're on it and it's like we're all capable of
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that. It's just about believing in
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yourself. It is and you know it's funny
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because like with Talisman as an example and I don't think people
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talk about this enough but there is a mental health aspect to be
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increasing - right? So for example, when I decided
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to kind of take the plunge and do this, like I was like oh you
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know, people are going to be supportive my friends.
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My family, everybody's going to think this is a great idea and
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it was not the case right at all.
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And so like that, affects you, it affects your mental health
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because to your point, you know, as much as As you believe in
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yourself and want to believe in what you're doing, sometimes?
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When people don't go along for the ride, you're just your left
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kind of feeling like Halo. And that's kind of how it was,
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you know, I had like my husband, for example, super supportive.
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I think he's crazy even still that he supported me in the way
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that he did. But he really did Super
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supportive about it. I had some friends.
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But then there was the rest. And so, you know, we take the
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plunge, we make this, this short film, we turn it into a web
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series and I remember I sent it to a friend when it was finished
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and all I got back was like, you know, you know, it's kind of a
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kind of campy was that what you were going for and I was like,
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what So just adjust it just a is this the one that would that was
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about lgbtq themes, or was this the other one?
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Now let's get some hilarious if it was.
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So it just like I said, it was very affecting to me, especially
19:26
in the beginning to like not have the support of people that
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I really thought I would. And and then like Talisman like
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blew up and I mean it's it we're not a household name by any
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means it's well no look at it let's look at it like relatively
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speaking. So in the United States you got
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love what like 50 million, people hundred million,
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something like that. How many?
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I think 250 or 300 million. Okay, so so right.
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So you take like okay, like for instance I watch professional
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wrestling, right? And week by week.
20:00
Right. Love it.
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I like you. I like you even more now.
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So like years ago, there was like 10 million people watching
20:08
it on a Monday night. Now, there's like 23 million
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which doesn't sound like a lot, but it's still a big call
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committed audience, people watching it.
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And the one thing I've learned about acting and film making, is
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that while you might not be in like the box office or whatever,
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you can still have like a huge following for something and it's
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it's all relative to like what your goals are like if your goal
20:29
as a filmmaker is too. Just be like one of the best
20:31
ever then. Yeah, I can see why looking at
20:34
short for me but like, oh, it's not quite where I want it to be
20:36
right, right. I, but, but they basically jet,
20:38
it's, you know, life is a marathon that our race.
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It's like, you'll get there, but you have to keep doing what
20:44
you're doing and believing in it and then one and then to get one
20:48
of those films that's big box of its you need.
20:50
I think two things, which is a three things, one money to.
20:56
Yeah, the connections and then three.
20:59
I think something that has either enough relatability that
21:05
a mass audience can connect to it or just so bizarre, that
21:10
somehow it just captures the imagination, you know, like
21:13
remember squid squid game doing below us, that's like, I feel
21:17
like those. I don't know what it was, maybe
21:19
it was just the funkiness about it, because Korean Cinema and TV
21:22
is incredible like, and it's huge, right?
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But like it was a big thing for a lot of people and I think to
21:29
be fair That was just lockdown. We had nothing else.
21:31
Better the days might as well watch it.
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Yeah, and it was incredible. Apparently, the guy the guy was
21:36
and that's an amazing story and of itself.
21:38
The it is true that it was just sitting on that flight 10 years.
21:42
Yeah. That's not what I wanted
21:43
anything to do with it, right? No one wanted anything to do
21:46
with it and then it becomes the biggest show of all time,
21:50
essentially for Netflix. So yeah, it's awesome.
21:53
That's that's the thing as well. All it takes is like one person
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to believe in you and take a shot on you.
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And then Boom, your career goes up.
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I get my livestream audience. Tell me this all the time
22:03
because you know I get weird reactions all the time I get
22:06
told, you know, you don't have to look you're not good enough,
22:08
you don't have the voice, you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
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you know, but then I got this core audience, people that
22:15
follow me, that is growing and they truly do, believe me, and
22:18
I'm so thankful for them and then what I'd do without them,
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to be honest. And when I hear that, I used to
22:24
think like yeah, whatever but not.
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Not like I don't care but like, ya know like you know, like
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this. Don't think he's a nice things
22:30
to hear, but I don't truly believe this but now I believe,
22:33
now I really truly do believe but it's a case of just, I don't
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know, you keep rattling the cage, like I was thinking on the
22:42
way home from work, like just a quote came to mind in my head.
22:46
I was thinking like if you keep knocking on doors, eventually
22:49
someone's got to answer, do you know what I mean?
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I could someone has right? Yeah, even if it's this is tell
22:54
you to go away can be like, but I'll come back.
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I'll keep coming back until you give me a shot.
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Not see, right? It's sometimes that's what it
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takes, right? It is is exactly what you said
23:05
to keep knocking on the door and seeing what happened.
23:08
So, yeah, absolutely. It's tenaciousness.
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Like if, if you just quit as soon as you face any in
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especially in this business, and as an actor, I'm sure you know,
23:20
it, I'm lucky. I feel like I'm lucky because I
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write a story and then I choose to produce it.
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So I'm not asking permission from anybody.
23:31
I'm not beholden to a studio, right?
23:34
I come up with the story and I'm going to make it as an actor.
23:39
Like you just I feel like it's a lot of rejection and a lot of of
23:43
negativity for me it's like look I'm going to make this and I'm
23:46
going to put it out there and people are either going to look
23:48
at or they're not that's affecting, don't get me wrong.
23:53
But at the end of the day, I did it on my terms where as an
23:57
actor, there are so many If you know things that are out of your
24:02
control, you know? But I think again though I
24:05
completely relate to everything you're saying, like I know we're
24:08
coming at it from different perspectives but like my
24:10
personal opinion is I don't give a fuck if someone rejects me or
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says yeah because like what they think those words are going to
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stop me from doing what I want to do.
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Like I've had people literally turn around to me and be like
24:21
you will not achieve your dreams.
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You will not do this and I'm like, fucking watch me.
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Oh yeah, I remember being told. I don't know.
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However, it was 11, 12 years old, that I couldn't sing.
24:31
I was tone-deaf, and I'd never sing and all these years later.
24:34
I'm able to hit like, Sal Seto. So right ha take that.
24:39
Yeah, exactly. You know me, it's like, I feel
24:42
like the best the best way to always approach these things is
24:45
just, I mean, one thing I will say though about filmmaking and
24:48
acting and everything is that you know you could be perfect
24:52
for the role but you're just not quite the right fit.
24:54
Like, you know, for instance Godfather.
24:58
Robert De Niro auditioned for the role of Sonny and yeah he
25:02
did a pretty good interpreter is a decent little you know you
25:06
could see him maybe doing it but I can't remember the actor's
25:10
name that they went with, in the end, it's good job.
25:14
Well the guy that they went with in the end was a better fit.
25:19
Right. And I think visually like if you
25:22
if you watch the movie and you see like how he composes himself
25:25
and everything is, it's a better fit.
25:27
And that's the, that's the Problem is like, it's a very
25:29
visual industry but it's not all about as people think it is,
25:34
though. It's only about looks, you have
25:36
to be good-looking, you have to be this year there is that
25:38
they'll get me wrong, there's plenty of that but like, there's
25:41
plenty of Artists and creators that don't care about that and
25:45
they're just looking for like, okay, this is the dream that I
25:48
have in my head. Do these people fit in that or
25:51
gentleman can't can they make my dream come alive?
25:54
Kind of thing, right? Yeah, absolutely.
25:57
And you know, like so I guess, you know, we kind of we ran our
26:04
course with Talisman, right? And it was, it was like, okay,
26:09
what comes next, but during the course of the cement in between
26:13
when we shot the short film and the series, like I went through
26:17
some stuff and I remember waking up.
26:22
It was Valentine's Day, 2019 not to turn this into a very heavy
26:27
show, but not on, on Valentine's Day in 2019, I woke up.
26:33
And as I do every morning, I like grabbed my phone right
26:37
away, right? And I start like skimming social
26:39
media. And there was an article from a
26:43
local news station in Philadelphia, And it was about
26:50
clergy sexual assault and sexual abuse.
26:53
And I was like, I'm not reading that and you know I kind of like
26:59
got up and and like tried to to go about my day but I wound up
27:03
reading the article, it like compelled me and you know there
27:08
have been some great films that have been made on this topic and
27:11
so many expose is done in the media and stuff like that and I
27:14
just I had to And all of it out and but on this day it was just
27:19
like I need to read this and I read it and attached to.
27:25
That article was a list of of clergy in the area that had been
27:30
credibly accused. And essentially, in other words
27:34
that the church had investigated and found the claims to be, you
27:40
know, merit-based essentially. And I was like, do I really want
27:45
to do this? And I like I again, I like I
27:49
closed the article, I tried to go about my day and but again
27:54
it's just I I don't know what it was that day, but it I was
27:57
compelled. And so I went back to the
27:59
article and I I open the list and I was scrolling through.
28:05
I was looking for a name, obviously, and I knew it would
28:08
be there, you know, even though I hadn't done anything to put
28:13
that person on that list, I just knew it would be there and sure
28:18
enough it was and it just kind of you know, as a G's at that
28:24
point. What 45 year old man, it kind of
28:30
Really like rocked everything, you know, at my Foundation
28:36
because for a long, long time, I had kind of, I pushed this to
28:41
the side or I had made once in a while I would make a joke about
28:46
about it. You know, in poor taste and you
28:50
know what I mean, but that's that's the way we kind of cope
28:52
with things sometimes and, you know, my husband, we've been
28:56
together for 16 years now. So at the time it was what, you
28:59
know. 13. He he like came, he was getting
29:05
ready for work and he came into the room and he was like are you
29:09
okay? Like I guess it was.
29:11
It was all over me at that point and I like showed him the name
29:16
and he's like, who's that? And I told him the story and in
29:21
13 years this is my husband. You know, the person I spend my
29:25
life with that, I'm closer to than anybody in the world and he
29:29
was like, you know, You said something years ago but it was
29:34
very veiled you know I didn't really know that it had really
29:41
happened, you know, I assumed but there was no detail and so I
29:49
have a another best friend who lives in North Carolina and in
29:55
at that time of my life, when all this kind of took place we
29:59
were super super close. And I contacted him that day
30:04
Aaron and I said, Hey, do you remember me ever talking about a
30:09
priest? And he was like, yeah, like it
30:13
was yesterday and he was like, but again, no details, you know.
30:18
But anyway, so it kind of like I said, it really turned
30:22
everything on its side and for me and I felt like I I don't
30:29
know, I had to kind of reassess and readjust everything and but
30:39
again, like I said, we're in, we're in the midst of of
30:41
pre-production on Talisman. And I just remember, I said to
30:46
Colin, in fact, one of your past guests.
30:49
I was like, I need to tell the story and so Talisman.
30:56
Is this like big spectacle, right?
30:58
Right, I remember playing film festivals where, you know, you
31:02
have all these like artsy arthouse films and then there's
31:07
Talisman and it's like a little mini Blockbuster.
31:10
That's what I used to tell people.
31:11
Like it has, you know, visual effects and, and all this crazy
31:16
stuff. And so we always I always felt
31:20
out of place in some of those film festivals because like I
31:23
said, you know, you had this artistic stuff and then this
31:27
like, Your Entertainment kind of story until assessment, but I
31:32
told I told Colin I was like, I need to I need to tell the story
31:36
and it is 180 degrees from what Talisman is like, you know, I
31:44
need to find a way to tell the story with authenticity and
31:47
compassion and I started working on it.
31:51
As soon as we wrapped Talisman, I started writing our next
31:56
series, which is insignificant And you know, apples and oranges
32:02
experience, but but and topic really.
32:06
But, you know, probably the most rewarding thing I've done so
32:10
far. Other than wanting to tell your
32:15
story. What do you hope to kind of
32:18
achieve by telling this story? So it's funny when I guess it's
32:26
like this, I grew up in the 90s. Those were my formative years,
32:31
right? And in the 90s that there
32:34
wasn't, there wasn't representation.
32:37
And I know that that's a Hot Topic among people.
32:40
Some people think that representation is overdone and
32:43
people are trying. And too hard and and all that
32:46
stuff but representation matters and and growing up in the 90s
32:54
the victim of a sexual assault. There was nothing for me to
33:00
relate to. There was no positive
33:02
representation of the lgbtq society in the media.
33:08
There really wasn't now in the late 90s.
33:10
You know, we had Will and Grace and and it was like it was fine.
33:14
Finally starting to turn, but in the early 90s, there was
33:17
nothing. And if, if there was a gay
33:19
character in a film or on a show, it was it was often, you
33:24
know, derogatory or stereotypical or whatever.
33:29
So, I think more than anything, what I really wanted to
33:32
accomplish with this is since I felt alone, when I went through
33:37
that experience, that I don't want other people to feel alone,
33:41
so they're going through that. Or have gone through that a to
33:46
know that a there is hope and be you can overcome and see that
33:53
they're not alone. You know.
33:55
Those are the things that are important to me.
33:58
Absolutely, I am intrigued as well because there's a lot of
34:02
Series going around right now that are like, for instance,
34:06
just is a little bit of a diversion, but same principle
34:10
that 90 show, which is, yeah, like a direct sequel to That 70s
34:14
Show. Really.
34:15
Really cool. But, but, you know, you got a
34:17
bunch of gen Z actors. Do it playing 90s kids and
34:20
there's been some people going back and forth on like, oh, boy,
34:24
is this, is this good? This is a bad thing like I'm In
34:27
the actors like what difference does it make?
34:29
I don't get that argument. I really do.
34:33
But one thing I think is interesting is, you know,
34:35
telling historic stories especially with like themes such
34:38
as lgbtq versus telling like modern-day ones like I mean
34:46
What? I suppose.
34:47
I guess, what I'm asking is like, what value do you think a
34:51
series? Like this can have where, it's
34:53
sort of, telling a historical perspective, and it's also, you
34:58
know, exploring sexuality as well.
35:00
I think. I actually really struggled with
35:05
the decision of whether to set it in modern day or in the 90s.
35:11
But I felt in the end, a bunch of people were like, you've got
35:16
to set it in the 90s and I'm not sure that I totally agree.
35:22
I think the story would work today as well, but I think the
35:27
90s because of where we were as a society in the world.
35:32
And even where things were so much less accepted and, you
35:39
know, I don't I think there are Universal themes to people who
35:43
are lgbtq. I think we all go through some
35:48
isolation and depression and loneliness because I think when
35:53
you're kind of Realizing your sexuality.
35:56
Sometimes it's a very isolating feeling right?
36:01
When I was a kid. I just remember feeling like I
36:04
was the only person in the entire world that felt the way
36:08
that I felt and obviously that's not the case but but that's how
36:12
that's how I felt. And so I think yeah the decision
36:17
to set it in the 90s was really to let that timeframe kind of
36:22
inform the story and Show how far we have come, we have come
36:27
far growing up. I didn't consider that I would
36:33
ever be married or that it would be allowed or anything.
36:36
You know it wasn't it wasn't anything that was on the plate
36:40
because it wasn't it just wasn't a thing and so, you know, but
36:46
here I am, you know, I've been married for almost 13 years now
36:49
and congratulations. Thank you.
36:51
And yeah, so, Just I kind of wanted to let that timeframe
36:56
inform the story a little bit, a because it is the time frame in
37:00
which I grew up. But also, like I said it shows,
37:06
it shows how far we have evolved as a society, we still have a
37:09
long way to go with so many things, but at the same time,
37:15
you know, I look at, you know, 30 years as being, you know,
37:19
forever it's really not, you know, it's a very small Fragment
37:25
of time and and we've come a long way in those 30 years.
37:30
So yeah, I think that that is kind of the point of the story
37:37
and you know, like I said to establish hope and let people
37:40
know that they're they're not alone.
37:44
I mentioned briefly earlier about how there is
37:48
representation now and it's maybe there's sometimes too much
37:53
or whatever, but what do you make of Hollywood's kind of
37:56
approach to representation so far?
37:58
Okay, I have my personal opinions.
38:00
I thought my personal, I'll give you my take shirt.
38:03
That's right. I think the focus should always
38:08
be on the story itself that you're telling you should never
38:11
do things to. I don't know fill a quota or
38:14
like Tinker box or whatever. Like the focus should be.
38:17
This is the story I'm telling and these are the characters,
38:20
you know, if it if a particular relationship is part of a
38:24
narrative, great, make it part of the narrative.
38:27
Like I think there's so many series do this really well.
38:29
I think Star Trek. Does it really well and that the
38:32
new series, I think he's not sexually, but Mandalorian season
38:38
2, we watched like the end of like the final episode, everyone
38:43
in that shot is female, right? There's no males.
38:46
And I didn't realize, I sort of was watching it and then I was
38:50
looking on Twitter like the day after and everyone's like, oh,
38:53
wow, this is awesome shot. And I was thinking like, yeah,
38:55
this this is so much better than say what they tried to do in end
38:59
game, which was just so like I get it, it's cool but but they
39:04
were making out like there's never been any like females.
39:06
Paris there. Absolutely has make sure if it's
39:09
sort of like, Xena Warrior Princess and the 90s.
39:12
Exactly Buffy the Vampire. So I could go on.
39:14
But I mean, okay, it's like okay there's two things here.
39:18
Like one, what you said earlier, it's good that it's just
39:20
happening, right? Even if it's not exactly how you
39:23
feel, we can argue all day about like what the right way, or
39:26
wrong way to do it is because it's good that it's happening.
39:28
But as a filmmaker I think your opinions really valid here.
39:32
Like what, what do you, what do you make of it?
39:34
Like, is it good? Is it bad?
39:36
Can I do so? Like you brought up a couple of
39:41
examples where you said I didn't even realize, right?
39:46
And I think that's when it's I think that's when it's done.
39:49
Well, is that you don't even realize?
39:52
But at the same time it's so important to to have that
39:56
representation and stuff like that.
39:59
I think we still have a lot of work to do, I really do and you
40:05
know, a lot of people May disagree with me, it has been
40:12
like mind-expanding for me to see some of the projects that
40:17
have come with so much diversity and from a whole different, you
40:23
know, point of view. I think it's awesome.
40:27
You know, we watched a show called pose, I don't know if
40:31
you've ever seen it. In America, it's a why can't I
40:35
remember is Ryan Murphy, he worked on the show, just a
40:42
phenomenal show but it's about black Trans women growing up,
40:47
you know, or living essentially in the early 90s as well.
40:51
And just a, such, an impactful show, but it was, it was
40:58
something I'd never been exposed to.
41:01
I didn't know that was even In a thing to tell a story about.
41:05
And so, to catch that that point of view, like I said, it was
41:12
really like by opening an incredible.
41:16
I think that's what art can do. Right?
41:21
Art can show you somebody else's point of view and if you're open
41:25
to it and that's a, that's a, you know, big if these days.
41:30
But if you open yourself up to it, And allow yourself to really
41:34
see from that point of view. It teaches us so much.
41:38
It can teach us so much about other cultures, you know, they
41:43
say it's a lifestyle. I don't think lgbtq is a
41:46
lifestyle. But but, you know, I always find
41:50
that odd like in the sense. Yeah, I'm not really liking.
41:54
I think it depends that doesn't it.
41:56
Because like, your thing here about like, it's a community,
41:58
it's a greater people and it's like I've met other lat.
42:02
Of gay friends. I have a lot of friends I've had
42:04
over the years and they've all had different kind of
42:06
philosophies on it, like some are like yeah, absolutely.
42:09
I want to be part of this community.
42:10
I want to do this. Won't be that great.
42:11
Yeah. And then other people are a bit
42:13
more like like, you know, this is a part of me, but it doesn't
42:17
Define me, you know, and it's so it's like, I don't know.
42:21
It is an interesting one to me. I kind of Marvel at it.
42:23
I look at it like, with like kind of Wonder, like I'm just
42:26
yeah, it's just interesting to me.
42:28
Jen and I mean, like, here in Manchester we have Gay Village
42:33
alcohol area where it's like loads of like clubs and
42:37
different venues and stuff. And there's a lot of history
42:40
here as far as lgbtq and stuff. Like it's interesting place to
42:45
learn about these things, right? And it's just a whole other
42:48
world and it's but then, you know, I see people all the time
42:51
that don't hang out. In those areas, they hang out
42:53
elsewhere and they're just like, yeah.
42:56
So I don't know. And I think that You've got to,
43:01
you've got to kind of choose your path, right?
43:05
You know, it's it, it's about being an individual and about
43:10
being yourself and being your happiest, best version of
43:14
yourself and sometimes that's, that's really hard to get to and
43:18
hard to achieve, but yeah, you know, whatever makes you happy
43:24
if it's not hurting other people than, you know, for me, it's
43:29
all, it's all. Is about growth and learning.
43:32
I feel like that. Yeah, for me, that I feel like
43:36
that is, that's my journey right?
43:38
Is to try to find ways to be a better person to and if that
43:44
shows up in my art, then that's awesome.
43:48
You know? And, and really, like I said,
43:51
that's kind of the point of insignificant is to try to boil
43:55
down the things I've learned in 48 years.
44:00
And and sharing with people, in a way that gives people some
44:04
hope. And, and I keep saying it but
44:09
you know, lets them know that they're not alone. so, Would you
44:14
say? Generally in society.
44:17
Now, there's there's enough, I say, resources and help and
44:24
information, etc for people like because I don't know, like, it's
44:29
not something I can really relate to you, personally, but
44:31
as I said, I've had friends of, you know, yeah, her friends at
44:34
school excetera and like it. Even in that time, when we were
44:38
at school, I remember our our schools useless with that stuff
44:43
like they, they, they tried not to alienate.
44:46
In 8 people like I remember I don't think I've ever told this
44:48
story on the podcast before. So when I was at school in the
44:53
2000s using the term gay was kind of like akin to I don't
45:00
know saying like that's crap that shit like we all used it,
45:04
including the gay people in my school so everyone use that term
45:09
and and there were two gay guys and we're year, one of whom was
45:13
outwardly gay. His name was Stefan but we call
45:15
him. Stephen Affectionately, right?
45:19
And there was another guy who I can't.
45:20
Remember if he came out that point because we were like 13 14
45:24
says, you know, he was very obviously gay.
45:26
We all know but like I don't think he was confident enough
45:30
and with but I'll school was like really cool.
45:32
And my brother I don't ever remember anyone being like
45:34
homophobic or whatever. Like if there were there was
45:37
awesome. It was maybe like two people,
45:39
you know like but anyway I never forget this assembly.
45:45
Oh my God. So we're in this Assembly Hall
45:48
and there's maybe like 50 of us there and the head teacher comes
45:51
in and he's just like, okay guys, it's a really serious
45:55
issue. We have to talk about right now.
45:58
We can't be using this word anymore, it's derogatory and
46:01
it's, you know, it's really in the end, here's the thing.
46:03
The word gay is not derogatory. It is how you eat a lot of time.
46:08
When you, when you use a word, it's how you use it, like
46:11
chicken, you can make any word, probably.
46:13
Derogatory, in terms of how you use the word.
46:15
But like, historically, gay men, like happy and good and then it
46:20
became like a negative thing. And now it just means it was
46:23
just stating a fact and it, right?
46:26
So and the, what the meanings of words change over time I get it
46:29
and as soon as I heard that like we all got the message in the
46:32
first minute, it was like, okay, don't use this word in a bad
46:35
manner, got it, no problem. Right?
46:37
Might take us a while to just, you know, the Habit.
46:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine.
46:44
We're not, we're not idiots, will get it, it's okay.
46:47
But then he keeps talking and this is where it gets horrible
46:50
horrid and awkward. He's like, you have to remember,
46:53
guys, they're people too, and they have feelings too, and I'm
46:58
just sitting there with secondhand embarrassment.
47:00
I'm like, ah, and I turn and look behind me and it's
47:04
different seeing maybe, like, 3, 4 rows away.
47:06
And I just looked directly in his eyes and he's just like,
47:10
yeah, like this just like with his head in his hands, like Hey,
47:16
and I melt, and we way that's the thing, he kept going, we had
47:20
to sit there for like 15 minutes left.
47:22
We all walked out like this. And there's an example of
47:28
somebody trying to do something good.
47:30
But yeah, I like medic. I don't think the teacher event.
47:34
Yeah, I think he meant well, but yeah, the guy was in his like,
47:37
60s, or whatever and he's just trying to be relatable.
47:40
It's like cracking. Okay, good.
47:43
That one minute conversation you move on but no I don't know.
47:47
But I would hope these days it's a bit more except I mean, I've
47:52
got people in my community, for instance, there on the younger
47:54
side. Some of them have like trans
47:57
identities, some summer young, and coming out whatever and it's
48:01
it sounds like we're in a time where people are more accepting
48:05
but the same time you're still hearing the same.
48:08
Yeah, kind of difficulties growing and I think maybe that's
48:11
always going to be a part of just growing up.
48:12
There's always Gonna be indifferent.
48:14
She always going to be you know may be targeted for being
48:20
different, you know, but that's the thing.
48:22
I feel like a lot of the time but when you're an adult like
48:25
most people don't care about, you know, me like oh you listen
48:29
to this music? Great.
48:29
Okay. Oh you're gay.
48:30
Okay, great. Like you just did, you know me,
48:33
you just keep moving on. It's like, are you a decent
48:35
person? Yes, can we hang out?
48:37
Yes, great. Exactly.
48:40
And frankly that's how it should be.
48:42
But yeah. To your point.
48:45
I think they're, you know, insignificant itself, I mean, is
48:49
it's angsty, right? I mean, that's, that's what
48:53
growing up is. I feel like it's dramatic and,
48:57
you know, it, it kind of has these elements of of making
49:03
things out to be bigger than they are.
49:06
But that's what we do when we're growing up.
49:08
And so, yeah, to your point, whether you're gay straight or
49:12
whatever in between, Yeah, there's always going to be some
49:18
angst around being different and, you know, trying to find
49:21
your way but that's, you know, it can be a tough thing for
49:26
people. But at the same time, it's it's
49:28
part of the journey, right? It's what makes us us.
49:31
What would be your main message to like the younger generation,
49:34
right now? That may be a coming out or
49:36
trying to find their way in the world?
49:40
I, It's just, I always think back to to how I felt as a young
49:49
teen or a teen in, in that time frame and it was just such an
49:55
isolating thing for me. And, and I think for, for some
50:00
of my friends as well, you know, but the beauty of living in the
50:07
world that we live in now is is that there is more acceptance
50:10
and you can be yourself Um and yes there are always going to be
50:17
people who derived you for that, but that's going to be there.
50:21
No matter who you are or what you are.
50:24
You're always going to have critics, you know, there's
50:27
always gonna be haters. I hate to say that but it's the
50:29
truth. And so I think the thing that I
50:34
would say is find out who you are find out, what makes you
50:39
tick, find out what makes you passionate and throw yourself
50:42
into do it, do it, be it and live that because, you know, I
50:47
look at, at my life, as an example, and I've had a great
50:51
one, there have been some bumps in the road, of course, but but
50:55
at the same time, I've had a great life, but I spent so much
51:00
time when I was younger, especially, and even as an adult
51:07
trying to fit into other people's ideas and ideals of
51:11
what I should be. I have a fantastic job.
51:15
I work for a great company. But filmmaking and storytelling,
51:22
that's my passion. And, you know, for so long.
51:24
I steered myself away from it because, you know, it's not
51:28
stable and you can't make a living.
51:31
And, but, you know what? Here I am it.
51:36
You know, I said earlier, it takes audacity.
51:38
Sometimes to take the chance to do something like that, it's
51:45
been such an amazing ride for me.
51:48
I've met amazing people. We've gotten to tell a couple of
51:53
really cool stories to me. Maybe they're not, everybody's
51:57
cup of tea, but, you know, they're cool stories.
52:01
And, you know, we've made, I always say this.
52:05
They're my film family, you know, we have, we have turned
52:12
this group of strangers that were cast, you know, in this
52:15
little short film for five years ago, Into a family.
52:20
You know, James Yoder plays Ryan and Talisman after we wrap
52:27
Talisman. He decided he wasn't going to
52:29
pursue acting and he went into the military, right?
52:32
Wow. Yeah.
52:33
A little about face but he just got out and like, last weekend
52:39
he came and like visited us, right?
52:41
He lives two and a half three hours away came and spent, you
52:45
know, the afternoon and evening with us and spent the night.
52:50
And we got to catch up and it was like, this is all because I
52:55
decided to take a chance and I have these amazing relationships
53:00
in my life, because of that. Colin is another example.
53:03
Column is like a son to me. Well, you know, truly, truly and
53:08
love his parents. We've gotten to be great friends
53:10
with them as well, but, you know, he actually helped write
53:15
insignificant. Wish you know on a story that's
53:20
as personal as this one is to me to be able to have somebody come
53:26
in and share your passion and want to tell that story.
53:29
And feel like it's important is such a huge honor.
53:33
So yeah, it just it, like I said, it's been a, it's been a
53:38
great journey for me. I'm so grateful to have the
53:41
people in my life that I have, you know, professionally and
53:47
personally, you know It's a things really can work out
53:51
pretty damn. Well, you know, if you let them
53:53
so, is that the golden for you to become a full-time filmmaker?
54:01
I mean, you said, what, what, what are you doing for work
54:03
right now? Because utilized as a passion
54:06
and man, I know where you're coming from on this.
54:09
Like, I, I so badly. Want to be doing what I'm doing
54:14
outside of work for a living. So I know where you're coming
54:17
from. I know.
54:18
How much it's just like eats you up sometimes it does.
54:22
But yeah, what are you doing right now?
54:24
What's the, what's the goleman? So, I excuse me.
54:28
I'm a distribution center manager.
54:31
Wow. So I'm sorry, I don't know
54:35
what's happening. Losing my voice.
54:38
There we go. Overcome with a mess.
54:41
Yeah. No, I'm a distribution center
54:45
manager, so I 102 people every day.
54:51
It's a lot. It's very gratifying.
54:54
I enjoy what I do for the most part.
54:56
But yeah, you know to your point, the dream is to tell
55:02
stories and to be a filmmaker, you know, full-time.
55:06
I'm I'm lucky I guess in a sense that in, you know, seven years
55:13
I'm going to probably be able to pull the plug on my day job and
55:18
Pursue this but, you know, something happens in the
55:22
meantime that would be fantastic.
55:23
But that's the thing. It's I feel like it's a matter
55:27
of time you're already doing it. Like I think the same about what
55:30
I'm doing now like it's exactly. It literally is just a matter of
55:33
time. Yeah you yeah if you continue to
55:38
plug away do the work, you know something you said earlier,
55:43
you're a good person. So much of my experience.
55:48
You know, in the the couple of projects that we've worked on at
55:53
the next level I guess is about having great people on set and
55:58
and building a team that is, you know, all pulling in the same
56:03
direction to tell a story. You want to be one of those
56:07
people that that you're like yeah I want I want him back
56:10
because he was so great to have on set.
56:12
He was helpful. He was supportive of his cast
56:14
members, whatever like that's the kind of Stuff that you
56:18
should be trying to do. And so many times people don't
56:23
do that, but I don't really understand when you when you
56:27
hear about like, some famous actor or whatever, that is
56:29
really hard to work with, and you're just like, but why like,
56:32
right? Because your work and dry up
56:34
like, okay, I've shit on him before, I'm gonna check on him.
56:37
Now, I'm I really dislike James, Corden.
56:41
I don't care. I know I'm not a big deal.
56:43
Now, maybe I will be one day and this will become an issue, but
56:46
fuck it right here. To be a better human being.
56:50
You just constantly hear these stories about how he's
56:53
unprofessional and arrogant and over the top, and he rubs other
56:57
actors, the wrong way because of it.
56:59
It's like all people on set like Janome, like, oh, I'm better
57:03
than you, I'm the actor. I'm the big deal and it's just
57:05
like, yeah, but you'll work dry up so quickly.
57:08
Yes. What that's why they call it 15
57:09
minutes of fame? First of all, secondary, true.
57:12
I don't think you get anywhere in life by treating people like
57:14
shit. You don't, it will catch a
57:16
really dull. Yes, it It will end.
57:20
I share your opinion by the way. Yeah, loving the James Corden
57:25
slander here. Yeah.
57:28
At the end of the day it's so much easier.
57:31
Just to be a good person. Like if if you're if you're
57:34
living your dream and, you know, being a famous actor and you
57:40
have this platform in the celebrity Like why be pissed
57:46
off? I treat people like crap.
57:47
You are literally living the dream, I just can't find
57:52
anything about that to be upset about, you know, maybe on the
57:56
other side, it'll be different. But I think is the ego thing,
57:59
man. Like you you got to look at
58:01
like, I was looking at, like jet black the other day.
58:03
Like, there's a guy that's never changed.
58:05
He's always been the sound guy. He's just loving life living
58:07
life, right? Yeah.
58:08
And if you take compare him to like James Corden, James Corden,
58:13
Kind of gives off this like entitled Vibe, like he's like
58:16
yeah I know, I deserve this, I deserve this attention, I'm A
58:19
Cut Above everyone else and it's like all the same that's the
58:23
reality in life. We're all the same.
58:26
Does anybody really deserve that attention?
58:28
I don't know that they do truly but I mean I did that, I'd look
58:33
at it differently. Like I think because I've met a
58:36
lot of celebs over the years and they've mostly been
58:38
disappointing and it kind of made me just think like oh I
58:40
guess they're all just assholes, right?
58:43
But then some people just decent people, you know, but brailler
58:47
people are people. There's no matter how famous you
58:50
are or how successful you are like people are people you
58:53
remember how people made you feel you, remember how they
58:56
treated you, absolutely. And if I ever become successful
59:01
famous, you know, I've said it a million times before.
59:04
Let's see, we'll see now, you will, but if it ever happens,
59:09
I'll do my f like Evelyn best to kind of try to make everyone
59:13
around me feel special bit like a fan or people I work with or
59:17
whatever because the last thing I'd ever want is to make another
59:20
human being feel bad. Because of me like I take that
59:23
stuff. Really seriously.
59:25
Just think that like I couldn't imagine going around not caring
59:30
about how you make other people feel like that's it just it
59:33
feels off in some way. It's like And especially so I
59:38
did bring it to it to a sort of deep level but like I've had a
59:42
lot of friends that taken their lives over the years and lot
59:45
seen a lot of death seeing more. Now I'm getting older it's
59:51
Life's too short man. Just be nice to people.
59:53
You have no idea even if someone's just being an ask to
59:55
you just just try and be nice anyway because you just have no
59:59
idea man, I say that all the time, you know, you really don't
1:00:05
know what somebody else is. Going through and, you know, I
1:00:10
know through a lot of my struggles and my experiences
1:00:14
over the years, I put a smile on, I made jokes because you
1:00:19
know, hiding behind humor is is a great coping mechanism.
1:00:22
Apparently, I don't know if it's a healthy one, but that's what I
1:00:26
did and but yeah, just because somebody's smiling and laughing
1:00:32
and and all that stuff. That doesn't mean that they're
1:00:34
not struggling and You know, a little kindness, won't go a long
1:00:39
way. So and I really feel like as a
1:00:42
society, that's that's sometimes the point that we miss, right?
1:00:45
It's really a little kindness, can go a long way, it's really
1:00:49
that simple. It's just as interesting as
1:00:52
well. Got a little tangent here but
1:00:54
like when I look at the media and what the media does versus
1:00:57
what I see day to day on the streets in real life, two very
1:01:01
different things. Mmm, don't get me wrong.
1:01:03
You, you do, you do see like, real kindness and stuff.
1:01:06
That I feel like a lot of the time when it comes to the media.
1:01:09
It's like, oh we're doing this. Because, you know, we're trying
1:01:12
to tell you that this is the right thing to do and it's like,
1:01:14
you know what, real kindness is just choosing organic.
1:01:20
Yeah, you just choose to do the right thing because it's just
1:01:23
the right thing. Like, for instance, I was out
1:01:25
the other night and it was like really early in the morning and
1:01:29
we're partying whatever, right? It's freezing.
1:01:32
It must be like - fight and we're outside and there's Is
1:01:36
this homeless guy, right? And there's a lot of
1:01:38
homelessness in Manchester. I've done quite a bit.
1:01:40
Charity, work here to help homeless.
1:01:42
That's awesome. I've seen it, and it's rough.
1:01:45
Like it's, it's not easy and that you feel for them in days,
1:01:48
like this, where it's just so cold, it's ridiculous.
1:01:51
And he's just outside this shop. And the shop staff are refusing
1:01:56
to buy him stuff. Or, or they're saying like, no,
1:01:59
we're not going to let you in the start, something like that.
1:02:01
And people, I was rather like, no damn that we're going to get
1:02:04
in food and it was just all of a bit of a rush.
1:02:06
Otis. And then I see that the guys
1:02:07
crying like he's upset and I just come up to him, sit down
1:02:14
with him and just start talking to him and I just said, like hey
1:02:18
here's a place. I worked out for a while.
1:02:20
This is what you can do. This is how they can help when
1:02:25
he starts weeping and he's like getting me and I'm just like,
1:02:28
yeah, and I remember like kissing him and just being like,
1:02:30
Hey listen man. It's going to work out, it's
1:02:34
going to be okay, but you got to like, you got to go through
1:02:37
these procedures where the go on this list, gets that getting
1:02:40
yourself on they like start moving forward.
1:02:42
Like this is how you do it. This is unlike you keep trying,
1:02:45
you keep pushing it will happen because you see it all the time.
1:02:48
You see like stories of like people being on drugs on the
1:02:52
streets or whatever and then they change their life around
1:02:54
that it's a journey. It's not.
1:02:55
I'm not saying it's just going to suddenly change or stay the
1:02:59
its You can change your life at any time and that's another
1:03:03
thing I said to him was like the only person that can change.
1:03:06
This is you. Yeah, and you alone but you can
1:03:10
do this. And I don't know, like and I
1:03:15
wasn't trying to say that stuff to be, I just felt like, I
1:03:17
needed to say that to him and that maybe he needed to hear
1:03:20
that because he was listening, but he wasn't like impatient.
1:03:23
He wasn't like annoyed or anything.
1:03:25
He was just listening to me. And yeah, we were chatting and I
1:03:28
was like that. Is an example of what like,
1:03:33
that's what's real. That's the thing, we're human,
1:03:38
and we need each other. No matter how much we might try
1:03:41
to deny it. We need each other and that's
1:03:43
how you help each other. Totally agree.
1:03:45
And whether he took your advice or heard what you were saying, I
1:03:50
probably the thing that probably mattered more than anything, is
1:03:54
that a human being took some time to have a conversation and
1:03:59
so, show some interest and some carer Concern for another
1:04:03
person. I really.
1:04:06
That's I think probably the most important piece of that, whether
1:04:09
you realize that or not. Yeah, I agree.
1:04:12
Like, especially when you see people that don't extend that
1:04:16
level of kindness or like when you see people do, the wrong
1:04:20
thing will choose to do the wrong thing by another person,
1:04:23
it's kind of shocking. Sometimes I see it.
1:04:24
Sometimes of this place that I work people's decisions on
1:04:28
certain things and I get that. The decision sometimes but
1:04:33
they're not always like morally, what's acceptable, like what you
1:04:37
should do. And you know, let me in and I
1:04:39
always try to err on that side because my conscience just
1:04:43
punishes me, I can't life shit and I can't do the wrong thing
1:04:46
because no, I just feel terrible so I can't do it.
1:04:49
Yes. And as you said, it's easy to
1:04:51
beat to be nice and decent. Like, have you ever tried
1:04:54
carrying around a grudge of being hateful in life?
1:04:56
Trust me. It just makes it sucks.
1:04:59
Yeah. It's always better to go for the
1:05:04
good stuff grow for them. The moral, totally agree.
1:05:08
Yeah. So, anyway, what's the best
1:05:12
advice you've ever received? It's funny.
1:05:18
I just I didn't interview in a magazine the other day and the
1:05:23
question that was asked was, you know, like about a motto or
1:05:28
something like that. And and honestly, it was just,
1:05:32
you know, be kind work hard, stay humble.
1:05:36
I really feel like those are core tenets.
1:05:40
I feel like you can, you can go pretty far just by Bye-bye doing
1:05:44
those things, you know, we all have a dream, you know, yours to
1:05:51
be an actor in mind to be a filmmaker and, you know, but you
1:05:57
have to work at it. It doesn't just come to you, you
1:06:01
know, and like for other filmmakers, you know, it's easy
1:06:05
to give advice, right? It's just do it.
1:06:08
Like, if you, if you have an idea, I don't care if you shoot
1:06:12
it on your phone. Whatever.
1:06:14
It doesn't matter. You know, people get all hung up
1:06:17
on on gear and and what kind of technology that nobody cares
1:06:21
about that? If you tired, good compelling
1:06:23
story, it's a great story, right?
1:06:25
That's the thing. Took a look at my show like the
1:06:27
cameras shit. My lighting shit.
1:06:29
Like I got a decent dish Mike but like I started with like 10
1:06:34
euro microphone. Yeah.
1:06:36
You know what? One day this will be in a studio
1:06:38
and I have people in the studio courses will fanciful.
1:06:41
But like, as you said, it's just about about doing the thing and
1:06:45
that's what people really care about.
1:06:46
Yeah, it really is and like we get hung up on that, you know.
1:06:52
We like I said, I always, you know, that moment.
1:06:56
Like I told you, I was driving home that night and decided I
1:06:59
was going to put up a casting, call it took, you know, 43 years
1:07:03
to get to that point. And even then, I was like, am I
1:07:06
crazy? There were like several nervous
1:07:09
breakdowns along the way? You know, I'm like, did I bite
1:07:12
off more than I can chew? But at the end of the day, I did
1:07:16
it and like I said, whether people you know enjoy Talisman
1:07:22
or they don't, whether people will be able to relate to
1:07:26
insignificant which I feel like insignificant has something for
1:07:29
everyone. It's not just about one
1:07:32
character you know I guess I kind of see it from that lens
1:07:37
because that character is based on me but there's a lot more
1:07:41
going on in the story and I really do I feel like There's
1:07:44
something for everyone in this story, gay straight, you know,
1:07:49
absolutely something for everyone to be able to relate
1:07:53
to, but yeah, at the end of the day, I took the chance and I did
1:08:00
it, and no one can take that away.
1:08:04
If we, you know, are lucky, you know, we want to know award last
1:08:08
night. So proud of that we've already
1:08:12
won a few and the shows not even out yet.
1:08:14
Thank you, but it's not about that, you know, it's about the
1:08:19
fact that we made this thing, and we took that chance.
1:08:23
And, and, like I said, no one can take that away from you at
1:08:27
the end of the day, you know, if I were to Die Tomorrow.
1:08:30
Very dark, I'm sorry. But if I were, you know, I have
1:08:34
a legacy of having, told a couple of stories that were
1:08:38
important to me and, and hopefully, you know, leaving
1:08:43
behind And a legacy of being kind to people and trying to be
1:08:47
a good person. And I think that's a hell of a
1:08:49
legacy, you know, truly. So yeah, I guess that.
1:08:57
That's the advice is work at it be kind, stay humble.
1:09:03
And, you know, you'd be really surprised what you can
1:09:06
accomplish. What's the biggest life lesson
1:09:09
you've learned so far? Wow.
1:09:14
Very deep Christian. Biggest life lesson.
1:09:22
I feel like I don't want to be repetitive here.
1:09:25
All right, fellas, right man? Yeah, usually the right thing it
1:09:29
is, you know, I think the biggest life lesson for me,
1:09:36
obviously I've shared some of my experience today is Finding
1:09:44
yourself finding out what makes you tick finding out what makes
1:09:48
you happy. It's so important.
1:09:52
You really, it's really hard to get anywhere or to be a happy
1:09:59
person or a fulfilled person. If you don't find that, that
1:10:04
sort of care for yourself and that, that manifests itself in a
1:10:09
lot of ways, right? So for me, it's about the people
1:10:14
that I surround myself with, and that, that sort of love, that,
1:10:21
that you get from the people that are in your life, whether
1:10:24
it's family, friends. We talk all the time about
1:10:28
chosen family in my house because you know, they say, you
1:10:33
can't pick your family but you can, you know, you can pick the
1:10:38
people that you choose to surround yourself with.
1:10:41
If you surround yourself with good people, I feel like your
1:10:44
life really can be. Fulfilled in a way that you
1:10:51
would never have expected. You know it took me a long time
1:10:54
to kind of learn those lessons but once I did it's been a very
1:11:04
rewarding experience a very rewarding life sometimes I feel
1:11:10
like I'm not worthy you know like really truly Some of the
1:11:18
things that I've gotten to do some of the places, I've gotten
1:11:20
to go and and the people in my life it's just it's it is a
1:11:26
dream. So whether I you know, wind up
1:11:30
making a 50 million dollar budget movie someday or I don't
1:11:36
I don't I don't know that that mattered so much.
1:11:38
You know what matters is that the journey has been so
1:11:43
rewarding and fulfilling and I I just feel like I have learned to
1:11:53
focus on the things that fill me up.
1:11:56
That that make me passionate that, you know, bring joy right.
1:12:03
The world can be a dark place sometimes, but if you find those
1:12:05
things that matter to you and bring you Joy, you know, it
1:12:11
helps to brighten your world and kind of Send you on a better
1:12:17
path. I feel like I don't know.
1:12:18
I'm not very good with my words today, for whatever reason.
1:12:22
But yeah I really think that's important, you know, hopefully
1:12:28
put months. Thank you so much as we joking
1:12:30
about this. You know I always say like at
1:12:34
the end of the day when it comes from the heart.
1:12:36
That's when you know it's real and that's that's the best
1:12:40
thing. You know I stumbled and fumbled
1:12:42
my words all the time, you know, my background is marketing.
1:12:45
I Used to, like, selling myself advertising stuff.
1:12:49
And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter as long as the
1:12:51
sentiment and the realness is there.
1:12:54
That's what? Yeah, yeah, you're right.
1:12:57
As we draw things to a close for today.
1:12:58
Do you have any upcoming projects or final thoughts that
1:13:01
you'd like to share with our listeners?
1:13:02
So yeah, insignificant will be out very soon in the US and the
1:13:08
UK. I'm hoping soon as soon.
1:13:13
This is a tough question, right now.
1:13:15
When we booked this months ago, right?
1:13:19
Right. Like yeah, by then I'll have a
1:13:21
release date. Everything would be sad and I
1:13:24
was talking to Colin last night. I was like, I don't have a damn
1:13:26
release date. It could be the 28th of this
1:13:29
month, so I'm hoping for that, but we'll have to see.
1:13:35
Yeah, if not by the end of this year, then very early in 2023.
1:13:40
So I look forward to say, I'm excited, I'm excited about it.
1:13:44
I like I said, I think Ink people.
1:13:48
Will be able to relate to some of the struggles that these
1:13:51
characters are going through. And there is there something for
1:13:55
everyone and but at the end of the day it's a story that has
1:13:58
some hope in it. So perfect.
1:14:01
And I feel like today's podcast has certainly been full of Hope
1:14:06
and positive vibes and everything in between.
1:14:08
So thank you so much for being a wonderful guest on the show,
1:14:11
man. It's been a real pleasure.
1:14:12
It was totally my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
1:14:15
I appreciate it. Pleasure was always mine and to
1:14:18
my listeners. Thank you so much for watching
1:14:21
this episode of the Christian Reef podcast as always.
1:14:24
Please let us know your thoughts.
1:14:26
Let me know what you think. Let me know who you'd like to
1:14:28
see on the show next, let me know what you'd like to hear on
1:14:30
the show. Next.
1:14:32
And as always be safe, be well and I'll see you in the next
1:14:35
one.