Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BREAKING: Police Arrest Architect for Gilgo Beach Serial Murders

Transcript

BREAKING: Police Arrest Architect for Gilgo Beach Serial Murders · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace, a devil walking amongst us.
0:16
Speaker 1: And of course the devil is so genius he can
0:23
Speaker 1: look just like us. He can look just like that
0:27
Speaker 1: neighbor down the street, the one with the wife and
0:31
Speaker 1: the two kids, and the architectural firm in Manhattan. That
0:38
Speaker 1: guy I am talking about none other than the alleged
0:43
Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer Rex Huerman, very well respected architect,
0:54
Speaker 1: now behind bars in the deaths of at least three
0:59
Speaker 1: and I believe many more women connected in time and location,
1:09
Speaker 1: many of them sex workers, all of them daughters, mothers, sisters, girlfriends.
1:21
Speaker 1: We've waited a long time for this day to come,
1:25
Speaker 1: for the Long Island serial killer to be unmasked for
1:29
Speaker 1: the devil that he is. I mean, I see, Grace.
1:33
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:36
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and serious exem one to eleven
1:39
Speaker 1: take a listen to this.
1:41
Speaker 2: It is one of the most baffling serial murder cases
1:44
Speaker 2: in modern American history. Centered on this lonely stretch of
1:48
Speaker 2: sand on the south shore of Long Island, New York.
1:52
Speaker 1: Gill Go be just.
1:52
Speaker 2: Small community with a big mystery on its hands. The
1:56
Speaker 2: bodies of fifteen brutally murdered young women, and there's it
2:00
Speaker 2: seems to be a pattern, many of them under five
2:03
Speaker 2: feet tall and less than one hundred pounds, all dumped
2:08
Speaker 2: in the surrounding dunes over a period of twenty years.
2:12
Speaker 3: There's been some new developments in the Gilgo investigation. Last night,
2:18
Speaker 3: a little bit around eight thirty pm, in the vicinity
2:21
Speaker 3: of thirty fifth and fifth Avenue in the city, members
2:24
Speaker 3: assigned to the Gilgo Beach Task Force did place one
2:30
Speaker 3: individual under arrest.
2:31
Speaker 4: After years of searching and fear, years of true crime
2:35
Speaker 4: hobbyists and their theories prags, did you do it? It
2:38
Speaker 4: turned out the suspected Gilgo Beach killer was hiding in
2:41
Speaker 4: plain sight the whole time. Fifty nine year old Rex Huerman,
2:45
Speaker 4: a suburban husband, father of two and cop say.
2:49
Speaker 5: A demon that walks among us, a predator that ruined families,
2:56
Speaker 5: and if not for the members of this task force,
3:00
Speaker 5: he would still be on the streets today, you darn Wright.
3:03
Speaker 1: If not for this newly formed task force instituted by
3:06
Speaker 1: the new elected district Attorney, this guy would still be
3:10
Speaker 1: walking free. And I guarantee you would still be killing.
3:14
Speaker 1: And I've got facts to support that. Theory. You were
3:17
Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at Crime Watch, DLAWABC seven and
3:21
Speaker 1: the Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison with me an
3:25
Speaker 1: all star panel. But first I want to go to
3:29
Speaker 1: a special guest joining us, Anthony M. Carter. This is
3:32
Speaker 1: the Deputy Police Commissioner in Suffolk County. Deputy Commissioner, Man,
3:37
Speaker 1: it's been a long time coming. I want to hear
3:40
Speaker 1: your reaction to the arrest of a prominent architect, a father, husband.
3:48
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to believe, but you guys have
3:51
Speaker 1: known for some time and keeping it on the down
3:53
Speaker 1: low what was happening, because you had intel. This guy
3:58
Speaker 1: was watching the police's.
3:59
Speaker 6: Every Yeah, it has. It's been for over a year now,
4:05
Speaker 6: something that we've been working on, working on tirelessly, and
4:09
Speaker 6: it really you know, it all began when Commissioner Harrison
4:14
Speaker 6: took office here at the Saffa County Police Department and
4:18
Speaker 6: one of his top priorities was the gilgle Beach investigation.
4:22
Speaker 6: And he had a vision, as you know, the former
4:25
Speaker 6: Chief of Detectives of the NYPD, former Chief Department, and
4:30
Speaker 6: the experience that he had. One of the things he
4:34
Speaker 6: knew is that we needed to get a fresh look
4:38
Speaker 6: at case, and we needed to get our law enforcement
4:42
Speaker 6: partners involved, and Commissioner Harrison created this task force, called
4:48
Speaker 6: it the Gigle Beach Task Force, and it comprised of
4:53
Speaker 6: investigators from the State Police, the District Attorney's office, the
5:00
Speaker 6: Sheriff's department.
5:01
Speaker 1: You know, you cut out on me right there for
5:03
Speaker 1: a second, but I think you said the FBI. And
5:06
Speaker 1: in the past, before the Knee regime, there was a
5:09
Speaker 1: lot of resistance to bring in the FBI. But when
5:12
Speaker 1: you've got women dyeing and going missing and now all
5:15
Speaker 1: these bodies turning up unsolved, Hey, you know what, I'm
5:20
Speaker 1: happy for all the help I can get every single day.
5:24
Speaker 1: So I just congratulate you and your Commissioner Harrison all
5:31
Speaker 1: this arrest and it was it was a joint effort.
5:34
Speaker 1: And I like that about you and your boss. You
5:37
Speaker 1: don't try to hog the limelight or say it's all
5:40
Speaker 1: about you. You really always give the credit to everyone involved.
5:45
Speaker 1: And you know, standing by right now, Kristin Thorn is
5:48
Speaker 1: with me, very well known investigative reporter to ABC Channel
5:51
Speaker 1: seven Eyewitness News, host of Hulu's new crime show Missing Kristin.
5:58
Speaker 1: It's great to have you and you you have stood
6:00
Speaker 1: by you and I both have plotted around there at
6:04
Speaker 1: the beach looking for clues, trying to find answers. Can
6:08
Speaker 1: you believe we've finally gotten arrest? And I gotta tell you,
6:11
Speaker 1: Kristin just in time, because this pos technical legal term
6:16
Speaker 1: was just caught on camera at a cell phone store
6:21
Speaker 1: paying cash, from what I can tell, for more burner
6:25
Speaker 1: phone minutes. That's his MO. You want to tell me
6:28
Speaker 1: this guy's out of business? H E double Lno, he's
6:32
Speaker 1: still at it, Kristin.
6:33
Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, and I think that's what's really scary about
6:36
Speaker 7: this entire situation and why law enforcement decided it was time. Look,
6:40
Speaker 7: they wanted to have Maureen Brainerd Barnes included in this indictment,
6:45
Speaker 7: and she is absolutely mentioned in this indictment.
6:47
Speaker 1: Woll woa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Well, hold on, lady, back
6:50
Speaker 1: it up. You're going warped four before we can get there.
6:53
Speaker 1: There's so many bodies. But you often hear of the
6:56
Speaker 1: GILG four, correct me if I'm on, but you are correct.
7:02
Speaker 1: The GILG four were all found in burlap bags, similarly
7:06
Speaker 1: bound naked, having been sex assaulted, which really links them together.
7:13
Speaker 1: Right now, this architect, this dad, this husband is charged
7:18
Speaker 1: with six counts, three murders, three felony murder charges, three
7:23
Speaker 1: second degree murder charges, three victims. But it's just a
7:28
Speaker 1: matter of days, I believe, before he's charged with the fourth.
7:31
Speaker 1: Then we got to deal with all the other dead bodies.
7:34
Speaker 1: But you refer to a woman, Brainerd Barnes, Marine, Brainerd Barnes,
7:40
Speaker 1: aged twenty five. He's the prime suspect and she's number
7:43
Speaker 1: four in the gil go four. Did I make that clear?
7:45
Speaker 8: Yeah?
7:46
Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead, yes, And so.
7:47
Speaker 7: The law enforcement knew that they had to get him
7:51
Speaker 7: now because they were worried about what he may do next.
7:56
Speaker 7: What he was looking on his phone.
7:58
Speaker 1: I mean, creepy dude. Creepy dude. You know, my daughter
8:02
Speaker 1: and my son, they'll see they're just fifteen. They'll see
8:05
Speaker 1: somebody and go, Okay, that's a creepy dude right there.
8:09
Speaker 1: Tell us Kristen about this creepy dude going up to
8:13
Speaker 1: a woman in a park setting in the last couple
8:18
Speaker 1: of months and completely scheving her out.
8:23
Speaker 7: He was walking around and she was in the woods.
8:25
Speaker 7: Is a nice wooded park in massapeoplea park, and she
8:28
Speaker 7: was walking around and he, as she says, came up
8:31
Speaker 7: behind him and was asking about her boyfriend. And you know,
8:35
Speaker 7: he's a very big man.
8:37
Speaker 1: Six ' four. Hey, what do you put him at?
8:40
Speaker 1: Anthony Carter? Guys, I'm speaking to Anthony Carter, but he
8:44
Speaker 1: is the deputy police Commissioner. I mean, I'm acting like
8:47
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here having a cup of coffee with this guy.
8:50
Speaker 1: He's been on this from the get go, since he
8:52
Speaker 1: came in and they formed a new task force. How
8:54
Speaker 1: much does this guy way? What you put him at?
8:56
Speaker 1: Two forty?
8:56
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean he's a very large individual. I would
9:01
Speaker 6: definitely say yeah, right around there, around a two hundred
9:03
Speaker 6: and forty pounds mark. Very just very just an oversized,
9:08
Speaker 6: you know, very large man. And you know yeah, I
9:11
Speaker 6: mean I know everybody's seen that YouTube video, you know,
9:14
Speaker 6: and where he's towering over the person that's conducting the
9:18
Speaker 6: interview with him.
9:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing like that, Doctor Bethany Marshall, to make your
9:21
Speaker 1: first move on a lady to try to get a
9:23
Speaker 1: date is to sneak up behind or at a park
9:25
Speaker 1: and start asking about her boyfriend. It reminds me of
9:28
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger, right because he, you know, the guy going
9:33
Speaker 1: on trial for the sleigh of four beautiful Idaho University
9:37
Speaker 1: students time stories with Nancy Grace, doctor Bethany Marshall with
9:56
Speaker 1: me and now it's like alalyst out of Beverly Hills
9:59
Speaker 1: at to Messymarshall dot com. Because he would go coburger,
10:03
Speaker 1: will go up to women at bars and go hey,
10:04
Speaker 1: what's your home address and phone number? Of course the
10:08
Speaker 1: women would run as if they had seen a monster
10:11
Speaker 1: rearing it suddenly head like this guy. You go up
10:14
Speaker 1: to a woman in a park, sneak up behind her
10:17
Speaker 1: and go, hey, who's your boyfriend? I would run, Nanthy.
10:22
Speaker 9: What it tells me is that he was constantly trolling
10:26
Speaker 9: for victims, and as a part of trolling for victims,
10:29
Speaker 9: he had this whole list of questions. I mean, number
10:33
Speaker 9: one would be, hey, do you have a boyfriend? Who's
10:35
Speaker 9: your boyfriend? The reason for that is who is he
10:38
Speaker 9: going to have to separate the woman from. Does she
10:42
Speaker 9: have family? Does she have people who's interested in her?
10:44
Speaker 9: And if so, it's going to make it more difficult
10:47
Speaker 9: to kidnap sex assault her. Secondly, he's looking for women
10:52
Speaker 9: who are quite short or petite, women he can easily
10:55
Speaker 9: handle easily, you know, kidnap and transport for from one
11:00
Speaker 9: area to another. And then he actually probably has many
11:04
Speaker 9: other aspects of his victim profile that are going to
11:06
Speaker 9: come out during the course of this investigation, especially as
11:10
Speaker 9: it pertains to his online searches on maybe under h kids.
11:14
Speaker 9: Twinks was one of the things I heard, you know.
11:16
Speaker 1: Young hey, well, what was the last thing you said?
11:18
Speaker 6: Twinks?
11:19
Speaker 1: You need to tell everybody what that means, Okay.
11:22
Speaker 9: A twink is a young man who looks very feminine,
11:27
Speaker 9: usually underweight, very small, and the old fashioned word for
11:32
Speaker 9: them is twinks. So that was one of his victim
11:36
Speaker 9: profiles that he was looking for with these kinds of
11:39
Speaker 9: young men.
11:39
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, this includes you, Kristin Thorn, Toby Wilson, Todd Shipley,
11:45
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Deputy Commissioner Carter, doctor Bethany John Ray,
11:50
Speaker 1: the lawyer for the family of Shannon Gilbert. She may
11:55
Speaker 1: not be connected to Hureman, we don't know that yet,
11:58
Speaker 1: but it's because of her that all of these bodies
12:01
Speaker 1: were found. She's dead. She was killed there on Long Island,
12:06
Speaker 1: and I believe it hadn't been for her body being discovered,
12:09
Speaker 1: we may never have found the other bodies that said,
12:12
Speaker 1: everybody jump in whenever you have a thought. But you
12:16
Speaker 1: hear doctor Bethany Marshall correctly describing the fact of these
12:22
Speaker 1: Google searches we have just learned about. The police, of course,
12:25
Speaker 1: knew about it with me. Todd Shipley, cybercrime expert, author
12:30
Speaker 1: of investigating Internet crimes. You can find them at darkintail
12:35
Speaker 1: dot info. Todd, just follow up, please with what doctor
12:39
Speaker 1: Bethany just said about this guy's perverted Google searches. I'm
12:44
Speaker 1: sure you've seen them, right, sure.
12:46
Speaker 10: I think what's important is the fact that that was
12:47
Speaker 10: available once they identified the suspect and they were able
12:52
Speaker 10: to go to Google and subpoena and because they did
12:54
Speaker 10: over three hundreds of poenas early on, so there's a
12:58
Speaker 10: lot of information that we still don't know about yet.
13:01
Speaker 10: But once they started looking at this guy, was pretty
13:03
Speaker 10: evident that he was the one, because the searches were
13:06
Speaker 10: evident looking for information about the case. He was trying
13:09
Speaker 10: to find out what the law enforcement agencies knew about
13:12
Speaker 10: him and what they were divulging online and how much
13:15
Speaker 10: information was there, and he was doing you know, his
13:18
Speaker 10: dating and all the other things that go along with
13:21
Speaker 10: what was happening. So it was pretty apparent, you know,
13:24
Speaker 10: once they started looking at his searches, that this was
13:27
Speaker 10: a person of interest work for them. And it's pretty
13:29
Speaker 10: telling that there's that much information about us when we
13:32
Speaker 10: start thinking about you know, evidence online and what we do.
13:36
Speaker 1: You know what, that's perfectly put But if I were
13:41
Speaker 1: putting this to a jury, I'd say something more like
13:46
Speaker 1: blonde girl crying being raped, black slave girl being raped,
13:56
Speaker 1: America's five most tatorial old cases. Why hasn't Long Island
14:00
Speaker 1: a killer being caught? Why could law enforcement not trace
14:05
Speaker 1: calls made by Long Island serial killer? I mean, who
14:08
Speaker 1: would know to ask that particular question except for the
14:13
Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer exactly. I mean when I would
14:16
Speaker 1: think about the Long Island serial killer, I would have
14:19
Speaker 1: so many thoughts, so many questions. But I didn't know
14:23
Speaker 1: at the time because people like Deputy Commissioner Anthony Carter
14:27
Speaker 1: kept it so secret as he should have. I didn't
14:30
Speaker 1: know about the use of burner phones. Well somebody did.
14:34
Speaker 1: This guy was looking up why can't they trace his
14:37
Speaker 1: burner phones?
14:37
Speaker 10: No? I mean that's specifically what they ended up doing.
14:40
Speaker 10: Is if you look at how they started pieces together,
14:43
Speaker 10: which was brilliant by the agents that were involved and officers.
14:47
Speaker 10: They started to find those pieces and they started to
14:50
Speaker 10: relate to proving the negative who was around those burner
14:55
Speaker 10: phones when they had the geolocations that they had from
14:58
Speaker 10: ten years ago. And so the fact they went back
15:01
Speaker 10: and looked at all that evidence and started to prove
15:03
Speaker 10: that the target was close by, you know, those same
15:07
Speaker 10: phone calls, was a brilliant move to prove that he
15:09
Speaker 10: did it. And then they were able to go back
15:11
Speaker 10: after you know, his phones himself and starting to look
15:14
Speaker 10: at what's there. Now what's going to be interesting too
15:16
Speaker 10: is the digital evidents that they find in the search
15:18
Speaker 10: of his house. I can't wait to see what they
15:20
Speaker 10: found in his computer because that's going to be telling too.
15:23
Speaker 1: Other searches. And I want to go to John Ray,
15:27
Speaker 1: the family lawyer for victim Shannon Gilbert. I know that
15:34
Speaker 1: Shannon's family has been tortured, especially when they see this
15:37
Speaker 1: guy's searches which say things like blonde haired girl, young,
15:42
Speaker 1: depressed teen girl, oiled bodies, nude slave girls. I had
15:49
Speaker 1: to leave out some of this because even I wouldn't
15:51
Speaker 1: say it blank shot and crying porn girl, hogtiede torture porn,
15:59
Speaker 1: skinny red head tied up porn, short, fat girl tied
16:04
Speaker 1: up porn, tied up and raped porn as doctor Bethany
16:09
Speaker 1: poor in it out, Asian twink tied up porn, tied slave,
16:15
Speaker 1: force fed. I'm not gonna finish that one. I mean,
16:19
Speaker 1: teen girl begging for rape, porn, pretty girl with bruised
16:23
Speaker 1: face porn. My mouth feels filthy. I need to go
16:27
Speaker 1: wash it out with soap. This was what is on
16:31
Speaker 1: his Google searches. John Ray. Now Shannon's family has to
16:36
Speaker 1: read this and only imagine what Shannon may have or
16:40
Speaker 1: the other victims put up with, what they endured, what
16:43
Speaker 1: they lived through before they died. I want to vomit.
16:47
Speaker 11: I can plame everybody, does I think this monster, this
16:52
Speaker 11: giant monster who I characterize as Taratosaurus Rex, his image
16:59
Speaker 11: is now frozen in the minds of the Gilbert family.
17:02
Speaker 11: And I also represent Jessica Taylor's family and the same
17:06
Speaker 11: they have the same reaction.
17:08
Speaker 1: Twenty year old Jessica Taylor also found there along the beach.
17:13
Speaker 11: Go ahead, yeah, and these families haven't this image now
17:18
Speaker 11: that's frozen in their mind, that he is a killer.
17:22
Speaker 11: There's no way to be sure that he had anything
17:24
Speaker 11: to do with Shannon Gilbert at this point. We're looking
17:27
Speaker 11: hard at that but as we speak, but you know,
17:31
Speaker 11: just the image itself of what happened, and when you
17:34
Speaker 11: take what we do know of what happened to Shannon
17:38
Speaker 11: that the night, that early morning that she disappeared, we
17:42
Speaker 11: know that she was under a threat from somebody like him,
17:46
Speaker 11: either he himself or somebody like him, and there is
17:50
Speaker 11: probably more than one of them. But we're still very
17:56
Speaker 11: optimistic now and delighted that Ray here needed a district
18:02
Speaker 11: attorney and Rodney Harrison, the police commissioner, finally may put
18:06
Speaker 11: together the agencies that weren't working together so that this
18:10
Speaker 11: can be done. So we're looking forward. We think that
18:12
Speaker 11: is a really good chance that Taranosaurus Rex killed the
18:16
Speaker 11: others as well, because he was a hunter and hunters.
18:20
Speaker 11: He was a proficient hunter. They have tools and they
18:23
Speaker 11: take apart their animals, so he's certainly capable of having
18:27
Speaker 11: dismembered these others that are there.
18:30
Speaker 1: So, of course, and you know another issue. Kristin Thorn
18:33
Speaker 1: joining me, investigative reporter to the ABC star of hulu's
18:37
Speaker 1: true crime show Missing Kristin. Just because he ran out
18:41
Speaker 1: of burrow at bags, Okay, that does not mean he's
18:45
Speaker 1: not connected to all the other bodies. And I'm telling you, Kristin,
18:49
Speaker 1: there are more victims. There are more victims.
18:53
Speaker 7: You know, Nancy. I think what concerns me and what
18:56
Speaker 7: has kept me up at night the last few days
18:58
Speaker 7: since this happened, is not in a necessarily of course,
19:01
Speaker 7: the remains that are still left to the six other
19:03
Speaker 7: remains there along Ocean Parkway on Long Island, But it's
19:07
Speaker 7: the women we haven't heard about yet, right, So, in
19:10
Speaker 7: some of the cases I've covered in my show, I
19:12
Speaker 7: had some concerns, and I do hope that they will
19:15
Speaker 7: be using some of the DNA evidence that they have
19:19
Speaker 7: to look at some of these other women who have
19:22
Speaker 7: disappeared in the Tri State area, who I believe in
19:25
Speaker 7: their family believes were victims of violence, one in particular,
19:29
Speaker 7: who was worked in the same line of work as
19:32
Speaker 7: the other women. And so that's what concerns me. Who
19:35
Speaker 7: is out there the women or anybody else, because we
19:38
Speaker 7: haven't yet identified his profile, right we know about the
19:41
Speaker 7: Gilg War, but we don't know who else he may
19:44
Speaker 7: have been interested in killing or where his interest quote
19:49
Speaker 7: unquote lie, Can I make.
19:51
Speaker 6: A comment about that?
19:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, Japan. But I need to go to Anthony Carter
19:56
Speaker 1: about what they're doing right now, Bethany, hold on just
19:58
Speaker 1: a moment, Commissioner Carter, I pray to God in Heaven
20:03
Speaker 1: that this new task force, and I'm sure you're not
20:06
Speaker 1: going to tell me, is comparing his DNA to every
20:10
Speaker 1: other DNA that's been found in let's just say the
20:14
Speaker 1: Tri State area, because once these bodies were discovered, you know,
20:18
Speaker 1: he found another dumping ground, all right, comparing his DNA
20:23
Speaker 1: looking at who else He's been calling on his many, many,
20:26
Speaker 1: many burner phones and figuring out where he was seen
20:33
Speaker 1: in that Chevy avalanche, which I want to ask you,
20:36
Speaker 1: Wuty Commissioner. I happen to know that the avalanche discontinued
20:41
Speaker 1: manufacture in twenty thirteen. Yet here's an avalanche part outside
20:45
Speaker 1: his place, I believe a relative's place. An avalanche was
20:49
Speaker 1: seen at one of the victims' homes. Let me think
20:52
Speaker 1: I believe it was Amber Costello. Long story short. I
20:56
Speaker 1: can go on and on and on about Wow, here's
20:58
Speaker 1: the avalanche part outside at his home, a few miles
21:02
Speaker 1: away from where the bodies are found and a witness
21:05
Speaker 1: place is an avalanche at one of the victims' homes.
21:08
Speaker 1: How come it took so long? But that is something
21:11
Speaker 1: for me to chew apart on another day. Just I
21:15
Speaker 1: want to know that his DNA is being compared to
21:21
Speaker 1: other DNA, especially in that Tri state area.
21:24
Speaker 6: No, and that's a great that's a great question. And
21:28
Speaker 6: the one thing that maybe some some out there may
21:31
Speaker 6: think that you know, the arrest was made. We arrested
21:34
Speaker 6: this subject that the task force has you know, concluded
21:40
Speaker 6: their investigation and is going to go ahead and just
21:44
Speaker 6: look at Rex. The the investigation, the task Force is
21:48
Speaker 6: going to remain intact and they are going to continue
21:53
Speaker 6: gathering evidence in both with Rex and the Go Go
21:58
Speaker 6: Beach investigation is far from overt And Okay.
22:01
Speaker 1: I'm going to take that as a yes. Even though
22:03
Speaker 1: you're not saying yes, I'm taking it as a yes.
22:06
Speaker 6: You say to examine every piece of evidence.
22:09
Speaker 1: That's right, though, absolutely, speaking of every piece of evidence,
22:13
Speaker 1: let's take a look at it. We can talk about
22:15
Speaker 1: them that all the women work, many of them contacted
22:18
Speaker 1: on Craigslist. They were sex workers. They were found dead
22:22
Speaker 1: in the same way. Physical similarities all these four putt
22:25
Speaker 1: in Burlett bags disposed of on a lonely stretch of
22:29
Speaker 1: beach about twenty plus minutes away from his home at
22:33
Speaker 1: Massapeaker Park. But what about the evidence the heart evidents
22:37
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut three g are friends
22:40
Speaker 1: at ABC seven.
22:41
Speaker 4: Prosecutors say the smoking gun was a pizza crust. Police
22:44
Speaker 4: dug through Heureerman's trash, matching DNA from a partially eaten
22:48
Speaker 4: slice to previously unidentified hairs found on three of the
22:52
Speaker 4: Gilgo victims. Today they booked Heureman on murder chargers, accused
22:56
Speaker 4: in the deaths of Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, and Lynn Costello.
23:01
Speaker 4: And he's a prime suspect in the death of a
23:03
Speaker 4: fourth marine, Brainerd Barnes.
23:06
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about the hard DNA evidence evidence from
23:12
Speaker 1: a hair. One of those hairs was found at the
23:15
Speaker 1: bottom of one of the Burlat bags that one of
23:19
Speaker 1: the victims were discarded in. Also, apparently, and correct me
23:25
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, jump on. At kirsten Thorn, three victims
23:29
Speaker 1: had the defendant's wife's hair on them, obviously a transfer
23:36
Speaker 1: from her to him and from him onto the victim.
23:41
Speaker 1: So that's at least four pieces of DNA that we
23:45
Speaker 1: know of, then one of the victims to tie it
23:47
Speaker 1: up with a leather belt. Hopefully maybe DNA touch DNA
23:51
Speaker 1: was taken off of that. Am I missing any DNA? Kristen, No,
23:55
Speaker 1: that sounds okay.
23:56
Speaker 7: That is absolutely correct. But I would love to talk
23:59
Speaker 7: about the.
24:00
Speaker 1: Hair, sure, because I've got a professor of forensics with
24:04
Speaker 1: me and a for forensic consultant specializing in DNA waiting
24:08
Speaker 1: to jump on this because this this is going to
24:13
Speaker 1: get him in addition to all of the circumstantial evidence.
24:17
Speaker 1: Tell me, Kristen, here's.
24:18
Speaker 7: Here's my question, and I would love to hear from you, Nancy,
24:21
Speaker 7: and from your experts. To me, finding the wife's hair
24:26
Speaker 7: on one victim would have been interesting to find it
24:31
Speaker 7: on three. I'm trying to actually, you know, when you
24:35
Speaker 7: try to think.
24:36
Speaker 12: How does this happen? How does the wife's hair end
24:42
Speaker 12: up on it each time? And again, I am not
24:45
Speaker 12: implying anything about her. I'm trying to actually go through
24:49
Speaker 12: how this happened.
24:51
Speaker 7: Does anybody have any thoughts on that?
24:52
Speaker 1: I got a thought, but I'll bring in the experts
24:54
Speaker 1: a transfer just like Okay, just a few minutes ago
25:00
Speaker 1: before we went to air, my co worker Sydney handed
25:04
Speaker 1: me a big stack of papers to go through about
25:06
Speaker 1: three minutes before we started, and she leaned over me
25:09
Speaker 1: with her long blonde hair and I turned. I guarantee
25:14
Speaker 1: you some piece of hair or some something brushed up
25:17
Speaker 1: against my jacket and it's there. Okay. You know who
25:21
Speaker 1: loves talking about this. Joe Scott Morgan. He loves what's
25:26
Speaker 1: your You have some quote you always start with? Why? Okay,
25:30
Speaker 1: I'll let you tell it. Joe Scott Morgan with me
25:32
Speaker 1: professor friends at Jacksonville State University, and I've got to
25:35
Speaker 1: tell you I've been to their crim pro building and facilities.
25:41
Speaker 1: That's an incredible program. Joe Scott, author of Blood Beneath
25:45
Speaker 1: My Feet and host of a hit series Body Bags.
25:47
Speaker 1: That Joe Scott Morgan, go ahead, No, action doesn't leave
25:51
Speaker 1: the trays? Ll la, la la. What's the rest of that?
25:54
Speaker 13: The cards principle, Every contact leaves a trace and it
25:58
Speaker 13: is a cornerstone that we work from in forensics, and
26:02
Speaker 13: it's that axiom is over one hundred years old and
26:05
Speaker 13: it still applies.
26:06
Speaker 1: Tell it, Joe Scott, preach it. Preach it, father, because
26:10
Speaker 1: this tie is going down because of this DNA. And
26:13
Speaker 1: when I think of these computer searches at him, acting
26:16
Speaker 1: out those horrible, horrible, evil computer searches, all these ladies
26:24
Speaker 1: to hell with him. Now, I got to figure out
26:26
Speaker 1: a way to prove it hit it.
26:28
Speaker 13: Let me give you a hellscape here, and I think
26:30
Speaker 13: that it exists in that house. And this is my
26:34
Speaker 13: supposition here. You know, we were speaking just a moment
26:38
Speaker 13: ago about the transfer of the wife's hair. You know
26:41
Speaker 13: you mentioned Sydney in the studio. What space do you
26:44
Speaker 13: guys share, probably on a daily basis when you're laying
26:48
Speaker 13: down sound, it's in that studio, okay, So within that
26:52
Speaker 13: environment you kind of coexist in that environment. I am
26:58
Speaker 13: very curious, Nancy, relative to the accused, where any of
27:02
Speaker 13: these victims brought back to this home.
27:04
Speaker 1: That's such a good idea, Joe Scott, because you remember
27:07
Speaker 1: Joe Scott many of these and jump in Anthony Carter,
27:11
Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner, and Kristen Thorn because you may know better
27:14
Speaker 1: than Joe Scott and I many of these murders occurred
27:17
Speaker 1: while his wife was gone, and she has very distinct hair.
27:21
Speaker 1: She is Icelandic, so her DNA is going to be
27:27
Speaker 1: very identifiable. And this is mitochondrial DNA, which comes from
27:31
Speaker 1: your mother only. So anybody jump in with a thought
27:35
Speaker 1: in Bethany, I promise I'm circling back.
27:37
Speaker 8: This is Toby. First of all, the hair. I was
27:42
Speaker 8: a FREENSIC hair examiner for a short time. Also, the
27:45
Speaker 8: average person that has hair loses about one hundred hairs
27:48
Speaker 8: at a day randomly, So the hair connection on just
27:53
Speaker 8: the one per victim would be coincident, could be yell
27:57
Speaker 8: called coincidence on three victims, that becomes or of a pattern.
28:01
Speaker 8: But the locations of the hair is because of that.
28:03
Speaker 8: If she rode in the avalanche, if it was on
28:08
Speaker 8: his clothing, if he took any of the victims home,
28:12
Speaker 8: all those are reasonable explanations for where the hair is
28:16
Speaker 8: that the DNA was done on came from because of
28:19
Speaker 8: the fact that we lose hair so easily, so that connection,
28:25
Speaker 8: you know, is more open to interpretation. Where you come from.
28:30
Speaker 8: It's very probable because he transported them, or may have
28:34
Speaker 8: transported them in the avalanche, that the hairs were on
28:38
Speaker 8: him or in that vehicle and that's where the transfer occurred.
28:41
Speaker 8: Or if the you know, if the fur loot bags
28:44
Speaker 8: came from his home. They could have been transferred there.
28:46
Speaker 8: But hair transfers are a common thing, and you know
28:50
Speaker 8: there it makes it harder to interpret what's going on
28:54
Speaker 8: because of how common it is.
28:55
Speaker 1: But I agree with you. You're hearing Toby Wilson, forensic
28:59
Speaker 1: consult especially in DNA erology bloodstain at no Slow Forensic
29:07
Speaker 1: dot Com. Well, he's right, of course, Joe Scott Morgan.
29:11
Speaker 1: But three hairs, as Kristen Thorn pointed out, each one
29:16
Speaker 1: on a different victim. I want to explore your theory
29:20
Speaker 1: that these victims may have been taken to his home.
29:24
Speaker 1: I mean, when you've got three hairs on three different victims,
29:27
Speaker 1: the only thing the defense can do now is an
29:29
Speaker 1: AJA defense it was planted. I mean, let me hear
29:33
Speaker 1: your theory, Joe Scott.
29:34
Speaker 13: Well, this is one thing that I'm very encouraged by
29:37
Speaker 13: and that thieves folks are doing, is that I saw
29:41
Speaker 13: these images on the news of the police, the investigators
29:45
Speaker 13: going in and out of that home and Nancy. I
29:48
Speaker 13: hope they retain this place and take it down to
29:50
Speaker 13: the damn studs. That everything that they can harvest out
29:53
Speaker 13: of that environment from an evidentary standpoint is going to
29:58
Speaker 13: be acquired. Here's one more thing, and I'll be quiet.
30:01
Speaker 1: I don't want you to be quiet. I love everything
30:03
Speaker 1: you're saying.
30:04
Speaker 13: It's something that really sent a chill up up my spine.
30:07
Speaker 13: And maybe it's maybe it's a wild goose chase, but
30:10
Speaker 13: this one victim. I was looking at this charging document
30:14
Speaker 13: that's mentioned the Mari Miss Marine Brainer Barnes, and one
30:18
Speaker 13: thing that kind of sent a chill up my spine
30:21
Speaker 13: was that this burner phone that the accused had, or
30:24
Speaker 13: that he is alleged to have had, had contacts with
30:29
Speaker 13: Marine's phone sixteen times Nancy over a period of time
30:32
Speaker 13: from July to sixth or July the ninth. Okay, they
30:35
Speaker 13: have her phone finally dropping off the face for a while,
30:41
Speaker 13: and there's like a couple of days lag in there.
30:44
Speaker 13: But then here's the chilling part. He apparently the perpetrator
30:50
Speaker 13: opened her phone up again and began to check her messages.
30:58
Speaker 13: Let me ask you something, Nancy, would you just blindly
31:03
Speaker 13: give without any kind of fighting back. Would you give
31:07
Speaker 13: somebody the code to your cell phone to check your messages?
31:12
Speaker 13: I mean, I know I wouldn't. I don't know about
31:14
Speaker 13: the other folks on the panel. But how did he
31:16
Speaker 13: get that information from her in order to get in
31:20
Speaker 13: to her voicemail to check it? If that is true?
31:22
Speaker 13: What they're a legend, and that to me is chilling.
31:25
Speaker 13: That to me shows that he may have been in
31:30
Speaker 13: control of that person in particular about the rest of them.
31:33
Speaker 13: I have no idea.
31:34
Speaker 1: Well, all you've got to do is look at his
31:36
Speaker 1: Google searches Joe Scott and figure and I can tell you.
31:40
Speaker 1: I mean, he looks up a hog tyme raping woman.
31:45
Speaker 1: I'm obviously he is fixated on torture. I mean, Dr
31:51
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, you don't see that kind of Google search
31:54
Speaker 1: every day, and I've looked at plenty of people's computers
31:57
Speaker 1: in their searches.
31:58
Speaker 9: You absolutely not frame our discussion. If you think of
32:01
Speaker 9: this guy as a combination of an obsessive sex addict
32:07
Speaker 9: who thrives off power and inflicting pain in order to
32:11
Speaker 9: enhance his sexual arousal, his victim profile is going to
32:16
Speaker 9: keep changing if he goes to more and more extreme
32:20
Speaker 9: types of pornography and more different types of victims in
32:25
Speaker 9: order to enhance his sexual arousal. So maybe he starts
32:28
Speaker 9: with someone with it in his own race, an age mate.
32:31
Speaker 9: Then he goes to a younger person, than a smaller person,
32:34
Speaker 9: than a bigger person, than a man, than.
32:36
Speaker 1: A woman, than a child.
32:37
Speaker 9: And so I think that the complication and why the
32:41
Speaker 9: investigation is going to have to focus so much on
32:44
Speaker 9: the data and the science is this guy is going
32:48
Speaker 9: to find anything in order to increase his sexual arousal,
32:53
Speaker 9: and not just finding different victims, but stalking them, with them,
33:00
Speaker 9: perhaps taking them back to his house. This is not
33:04
Speaker 9: a one and done kind of guy where maybe someone
33:06
Speaker 9: looks at pornography, masturbates, closes the computer. This is a
33:11
Speaker 9: guy who's going to get as much sexual satisfaction out
33:15
Speaker 9: of any one victim as possible. So it's multiple assaults
33:19
Speaker 9: against one victim over an extended period of time.
33:23
Speaker 1: Which goes back to Joe Scott Morgan's theory that some
33:26
Speaker 1: of the victims may have been taken to the home
33:29
Speaker 1: because an extended period of time assault probably would not
33:33
Speaker 1: take place in a vehicle a Chevy Avalanche, but somewhere
33:38
Speaker 1: like a home or a motel room. Time Stories with
33:56
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Anthony Carter joining as deputy police commissioner. Deputy Commissioner,
34:06
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can comment on this, but
34:08
Speaker 1: can you describe how his DNA was obtained off a pizza.
34:14
Speaker 6: Crust during surveillance. You know, he was being observed and
34:19
Speaker 6: there was an opportunity where he had discarded a I
34:24
Speaker 6: guess like a small personal pizza box into a garbage
34:29
Speaker 6: in the city and our undercovers were able to retrieve
34:33
Speaker 6: that box. And just to go back on a point
34:38
Speaker 6: to you know, whether you know his home may have
34:42
Speaker 6: been involved in the location of the homicides. The one
34:50
Speaker 6: thing that we can say is that it's not a
34:53
Speaker 6: coincidence that his wife and family were away and three
34:57
Speaker 6: of the murders and we're taking you know, like I said,
35:03
Speaker 6: active investigation. We're at the home. I think somebody had
35:06
Speaker 6: mentioned on the call here that we're taking the house.
35:09
Speaker 6: We should take the help and I think that is
35:13
Speaker 6: the plan to get every piece of evidence that we
35:18
Speaker 6: can possibly get while we're inside of that home with me.
35:21
Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner Anthony Carter from Suffolk County Police, I got
35:26
Speaker 1: to tell you something, Deputy Commissioner, I'm the first one
35:30
Speaker 1: to scream when police screw up an investigation because it
35:37
Speaker 1: hurts me as a former prosecutor and a crime victim myself.
35:40
Speaker 1: But I am so impressed with your surveillance of hereman,
35:46
Speaker 1: your identification of him. I know it's been a long
35:49
Speaker 1: time coming, but this is a fresh homicide task force.
35:53
Speaker 1: This is a whole new look because this case was
35:56
Speaker 1: ignored by prior administration. You guys come in there like
36:01
Speaker 1: a barn on fire. You find this guy, you surveil him,
36:05
Speaker 1: you really look at the evidence. Then you catch him
36:08
Speaker 1: discarding a pizza crust and get his DNA which matches
36:12
Speaker 1: up to other DNA. You get his wife's DNA. Do
36:19
Speaker 1: we have any idea? Can you comment on how you
36:21
Speaker 1: did that?
36:22
Speaker 6: Deputy Commissioner, So the same you know, same methodology in
36:27
Speaker 6: trying to obtain abandon examples. You know, very similar fashion
36:32
Speaker 6: where we were able to obtain recycled cans from their look,
36:39
Speaker 6: you know, from where they live.
36:40
Speaker 1: So that's how you got the wife's DNA.
36:42
Speaker 6: That's correct.
36:42
Speaker 1: Wow, there's so much I hardly know which way to go.
36:45
Speaker 1: But let me understand something, Kristen Thorne, anybody on the
36:49
Speaker 1: panel that knows the answer to this. The way I'm
36:51
Speaker 1: reading the affidavit and other information, was this idiot actually
36:57
Speaker 1: traveling with a burner phone and his own private mobile
37:01
Speaker 1: phone together like toyburger. You know, you can see him
37:05
Speaker 1: traveling away from the crime scene. Did that happen? Does
37:08
Speaker 1: anybody know?
37:10
Speaker 7: Well, we know that they certainly there are They certainly
37:14
Speaker 7: tracked the burner phones relationship and location near Matsapequa Park
37:20
Speaker 7: as well as his midcount office, and they called that
37:23
Speaker 7: the box. That was the point that they used to triangulate,
37:29
Speaker 7: although in that word it would be three sides, but
37:30
Speaker 7: the box would be four to really, you know, pinpoint
37:35
Speaker 7: that his locations where he was, where he lives, where
37:39
Speaker 7: he worked, were also coordinating with the hits from these
37:42
Speaker 7: burner phones.
37:43
Speaker 1: Okay, break that down too, regular people talk.
37:46
Speaker 10: This is todd So I think what significance is what
37:48
Speaker 10: you're saying, and what they alleged in the court documents
37:51
Speaker 10: is that they found no instance where the suspect was
37:55
Speaker 10: in a separate location from the other cell phones when
37:58
Speaker 10: the communications occurred when he was talking to them from
38:01
Speaker 10: the Burner phones, and so at that significant that they
38:04
Speaker 10: tied them together from those soteller records, that his phone
38:07
Speaker 10: was there and the Burner phone was there in instances
38:10
Speaker 10: outside of the calls his phone, you know was not there.
38:15
Speaker 10: So it's pretty significant.
38:16
Speaker 1: Okay, that is entirely significant to Anthony Carter, Deputy Police Commissioner.
38:23
Speaker 1: What do you make of that theory?
38:25
Speaker 6: So, you know, I think when we talk about some
38:28
Speaker 6: of the locations that we talked about, you know, the
38:30
Speaker 6: burner phones versus his phone, and trying to tie that
38:34
Speaker 6: all in, I think it was you know, it was
38:37
Speaker 6: challenging because we look, we're looking in an area of
38:40
Speaker 6: over fifteen hundred homes that also included a portion of
38:45
Speaker 6: the Massapeka Preserve, and that also then opens up which
38:51
Speaker 6: are hitting those cell towers to people that may or
38:54
Speaker 6: may not even live in Massapeka, may or may not
38:56
Speaker 6: even live in Nasa County. So I mean that is
39:00
Speaker 6: one of the things behind the exhaustive effort committed by
39:06
Speaker 6: the members of the PASK Force to try to drill
39:09
Speaker 6: down and get the right information and the right evidence
39:14
Speaker 6: to you know, move us forward in the case.
39:16
Speaker 1: Christen Thorn w ABC Channel seven, what can you tell
39:20
Speaker 1: me about recent revelations of a storage unit a search?
39:24
Speaker 7: So we know that there's an active investigation right now,
39:27
Speaker 7: but around a storage unit on Long Island, and for
39:32
Speaker 7: all we know and we believe that it is connected
39:35
Speaker 7: to this investigation. You know, I think what they're going
39:39
Speaker 7: to be looking for. And I also noticed in the
39:41
Speaker 7: indictment and we talk about his house and how they
39:43
Speaker 7: do need to and are going to tear apart that house,
39:46
Speaker 7: there were items missing from the victims, so jewelry, some
39:50
Speaker 7: pieces of clothing. Those are things that would probably be
39:53
Speaker 7: familiar to the family that the family told them she
39:55
Speaker 7: used to always wear this necklace, this bracelet. That's very
39:59
Speaker 7: common we find, and so those things were missing, and
40:02
Speaker 7: so those are the things that they're going to be
40:04
Speaker 7: looking for in the house and in this potential storage unit.
40:07
Speaker 1: This is rapidly developing, but for right now, a suspect
40:13
Speaker 1: in custody in the Long Island serial killings. We wait
40:19
Speaker 1: as the evidence unfaults get by friend