Latest / MIDDLE GROUND - Real Conversations on Faith, Identity & Becoming — Through Brynne's LDS Lens of Curiosity, Love and Doubt / My Faith Journey, My Family, and Why Your Worth Was Never Up for Debate: Brynne Erickson Interviewed
Transcript
- Speaker 2 (01:06) Jennifer Ross Kelly, welcome. Speaker 1 (01:08) back. Thank you, thank you, back so soon. We're doing a roll today. We are. Speaker 2 (01:11) Yeah, we're all reversal. So the end of our last interview where I learned a ton about Jen, she was bummed that she didn't get to learn anything about me. And so she's like, want to interview you. I said, OK. Interesting. Yeah. Speaker 1 (01:24) Indeed. Yeah. be. Here we are. Yep. said uno reverse. ⁓ Now I get to dive deep into the mind of Brynn Erickson and see what she's all about. And I cannot wait. It's going to be an amazing session. So here we go. Speaker 2 (01:48) Sounds good. Yeah, I was actually talking to a guy that I'm going to be interviewing soon He was like I was hesitant to say yes because I've never like vocalized my Any of this like you just do it you live it you internalize it you help you work it out on your own and you don't Necessarily get to talk it out with other people right? You're a podcaster and that's your job exactly stories with people but even then I only share little thoughts of mine in snippets here and there. Speaker 1 (02:18) Right, because it's mainly, you know, as a podcaster, you're mainly seeking the truth and journey and enlightenment of other people and trying to bring their stories to life. But ⁓ it is different when, the microphone is turned against you and then or I should say, turn towards you, not against, but turn towards you and, bring your own journey to light, which is so important because your journey is. why you have been able to touch so many people through your podcast and why you have, through your podcast, through the people you're interviewing, been able to help so many listeners along the way. So I am really, really excited to dive into this. So if you're willing to leave your preconceived thoughts at the door, then we will have a really fun interview. So let's start it off right there because that, as I listened to your message. It reminds me of another famous person, Brynn, who said, I will knock on every person's door. And if they let me in, I will step with them through the night. If you let me in your heart, if you hear me knocking on your heart of things that feel wrong versus things that feel right, and you have the power to discern, to choose. like the plan of salvation, like the plan of agency, like God within us allows, then we get to a really beautiful place. We get to a middle ground. with that being said, if you're willing, the Savior also said, if you hear me, if you're willing, what does that mean to you? Speaker 2 (04:00) If hear me, if you're willing. ⁓ I think it's a conscientious ⁓ effort, choice to create your life with the divine. Speaker 1 (04:18) my gosh, I love that. Keep going. Love it. Speaker 2 (04:21) that is for you, I believe that there is not one way of seeing the big picture power. Whatever that is, I'm open to all interpretations. I was raised seeing a man that is human-like, like me. ⁓ So that's the image I still draw on. But I believe that there are lots of ways to commune with, to draw on that power, but it's an intentional choice. I think that it's always striving to help and connect with us. But when you choose to operate through that power, you do incredible things. Speaker 1 (05:17) Absolutely. even as like you're sitting here talking, it just, reminds me a right? You know, we say the divine, right? Like ⁓ connecting to the divine. And a lot of times I think most Christians, obviously most Christians draw on the power that is Jesus, right? But it's really interesting because when you take it, A level up the next step, what power did Jesus draw on? He drew on the light of the father. like, right there, it's just another, it's another point of drawing upon power, drawing upon faith, drawing upon a spark, Anyways, I really love that. Okay, why middle ground? Why the name middle ground leading into that? Speaker 2 (06:05) man, that's a good one. So in the beginning, it's kind of transitioned and taken shape over the last year since I came up with the idea. But as I was in my own faith journey, I realized that I just didn't believe the traditional narrative. of the Latter-day Saint faith that I had believed up to that point. So this was like my early thirties. I'm now 37. And, but I wasn't willing to step away from all of it. Speaker 1 (06:42) So it almost sounds like even in your twenties, you know, what that little knock, right? Like Jesus kind of knocking on your heart store, like Brynn, something is off here, but what are we gonna do about it now? And how are we going to navigate how to remain Brynn through this process? Speaker 2 (07:02) Yeah, and I really love my church community. Like for me, didn't make sense and nor did I want to. And that's for me. I believe that everyone's journey is their journey and there isn't a right or wrong way to experience it. Speaker 1 (07:19) for sure. Speaker 2 (07:22) I truly felt in the middle like I was in navigating new territory of how to be a member of the Elias Church, while creating new beliefs, while my beliefs were changing and evolving and I was wrestling with history of the church and things that had never been a problem before, but all of a sudden it felt like they were a problem. And so trying to figure it makes sense of that, but wanting to still be a part of the community, a part of... My culture, like really when you're born into a religion, it is a part of your identity. And to just walk away from that is really hard. And I talked with so many people that that is one of the hardest parts about stepping away is you're letting go of a part of an identity that you've had for so long. And so I... Speaker 1 (08:09) Yeah. And let's like deep dive that a little bit more, right? Because you're really now talking about how I would say you're describing as Christ is now shaping your heart instead of the handbook, instead of the ⁓ ritual weekly meetings, instead of the sacramental prayers that are repeated, right? I mean, quite literally, we even find in scripture, Do not have a repetitious prayer unto me. My ears shall fall death on you. But cry unto me. Is that possibly perhaps what you're hinting at, Brynn? Was your heart crying? Was your heart thirsting on how to mediate? when your mind and heart no longer are at a oneness with every single principle, law, practice, association that the church has. Speaker 2 (09:27) Yeah. ⁓ Speaker 1 (09:30) So in short, would say like, it sounds like you dropped or maybe not dropped, but per se, you stepped away from the church shaping you. And now you really were allowing the spirit alone, your heart alone, ⁓ perhaps the hope of Christ to teach you personally alone to shape you. Speaker 2 (09:52) Yeah, I would say I've definitely more leaned on the essence of the gospel. This is the container of the organization, the structured building, the handbook, the rules, the principles, or the procedures and all of that. Policies, that's the word I'm going Speaker 1 (10:06) Yes. Rules, words implemented by men to make it easy, perhaps, but growth of truth is not easy. Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:24) I'm learning that. Yeah. And there's a difference. My mom, she's so great. She talks about how like there's a difference between the church, the religion, the gospel, and ⁓ that they're not all the same thing. And I've thought a lot about that. And it is interesting to have been in this process. ⁓ learning about the principles that Jesus taught on according to the spirit and grin versus what other people have told me it's supposed to look like and what it's supposed to feel like and Speaker 1 (11:11) So let's define that. Let's define that. What is a principle that Jesus is teaching Brin's heart that is right? Speaker 2 (11:19) Bye. I really cling to hold tight to that just everything's going to be okay. Yeah, hope and the atonement. Like the atonement truly is, I got you. Like no questions asked. It's not this you do everything and then I take care of the rest. It's I took care of it all. Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:30) The hope. Now trust. Speaker 2 (11:47) Trust and live and learn and grow and spread light and goodness. It's not do do do and then It applies. Mm-hmm. So that is one that has really helped me on this journey It's just trusting that no matter where I land it's going to be okay and Allowing that same truth for everyone else no matter the choices that they make in this life Speaker 1 (12:13) Yep, we're all gonna have a moment to reflect with God, right? Or reflect with that higher power or reflect with, you know, Christ, whatever that looks like for the individual journey. We all have a moment where we get to decide, I trust this, it's going to be okay. Or we get to decide, I'm trusting something else and I hope it will be okay, because someone else told me it will be okay, right? Like it really is just a battle of. a ⁓ battle of where we put our trust in our heart, which leads up to my next question, which was what told your heart that living this quote unquote middle ground was right and true, which I think you just touched on a little bit because you said, ⁓ you know, it was, you made the decision that things are going to be okay. Jesus did enough. I am not the supplier of the law. I am the supplier of his gifts. Speaker 2 (13:10) Yeah, and it all stemmed from when I really had to face the reality of this ⁓ situation, circumstance of my family dynamics when my brother came out as gay and my other brother had stepped away from the church. So I know my once in LES terms, celestial family was no longer celestial worthy. or eternal worthy, right? In the eyes of Mother Day Saint religion. Yes, according to what I interpreted as, and I believe most people do. And so I took that to the Lord and I asked, what do you think about my family? Speaker 1 (13:42) Churchley. what a beautiful question. And what do you feel? He told you. Speaker 2 (14:08) Yeah, and I just felt with so much peace in my heart and calmness amidst the storm that was going on outside of me that it was all going to be okay. And that my family loved us, that we were loved exactly as we were and there was nothing wrong with us. And I can't deny that no matter what it contradicts. ⁓ Speaker 1 (14:38) Yeah, because you can't deny what the love of God testifies to your heart is true, right? I mean, truly to deny that is to deny something. It's almost like to deny that is to deny the peace of love that God has to offer every single one of his children when you really think about it. Speaker 2 (14:59) Yeah. And so it took a lot of try. It's, it's hard to trust yourself. And that has been a beautiful, empowering part of my process. And my journey is learning to trust my own thoughts, my own intuition in conjunction with whatever, wherever that comes from. Right. Speaker 1 (15:28) your situation, what's happening. Speaker 2 (15:30) I believe it's for my good. I believe that that power, that divinity, it is striving to elevate us, empower us, to make us more than who we can be on our own. Speaker 1 (15:49) That's God right there in the nutshell Speaker 2 (15:51) I think so. That's worth believing in for me. ⁓ Speaker 1 (15:56) I don't think there's a higher belief than that. think that's the end goal. Trusting and having faith that the higher power changes us, makes us worthy because of our hearts, because of our desire to get there, because of our ⁓ earnest efforts of doing good to be one with Christ. And actually, it was really funny. Sorry, a quick side note, but because it attaches to this pretty well. Me and my friend were actually... contemplating life after death, right? The magical three levels and not to call it that, but to put into effect levels of enlightenment, right? The LDS theology is there's ⁓ a gloom level of light. We call that the star level and it mimics stars. there's like a medium level. middle ground light, we call that the moon light, and then there's, you know, the celestial light, and we call that the sun light. And I think we as human beings overcomplicate things a lot. life after death, when we look at the pattern of Jesus, did he die? Everyone should, like really, everyone should question themselves that, did he die? Because there is either a yes or it's a no. The answer is, Speaker 2 (17:06) I Speaker 1 (17:21) Yes, he absolutely died. Jesus himself here on this world died. Life, now death, now to receive life again, right? Resurrected. Three days later, now where is Jesus? Like these are really simple questions, but we as human beings overcomplicate them so much. Where is Jesus now? The answer to that is he is still here. So now we have this new world he died for, for all of us through the power of God. to literally live in his presence forever. And he's still here waiting for us. So this theology that I'm not gonna make it with my family is total utter rubbish because we're all here already. We have made it. And that's the huge mind shift that needs to change. Your brother has made it. He is here in the flesh waiting to be changed. Your mom, your brother, you, we are here and he also is here. Speaker 2 (18:21) So not three degrees that we will end up after this life. Is that what you're saying? Speaker 1 (18:26) Correct, yeah, it's just this Garden of Eden world again to be made new again, this middle era ground that is happening right before our eyes right now. ⁓ Which leads me to my next question. What is the purpose of Brynn's life right now? What is Brynn's mortal purpose right now? Speaker 2 (18:49) My purpose is going to vary from everyone else's, but I believe this life is just an experience to be had. That's what I've landed on for right now. I think there's too many discrepancies in the human experience to be held to the same rules. Absolutely. Speaker 1 (18:55) Mm-hmm. And that's why the journey is so individual. Speaker 2 (19:11) And that's the whole point. is the point for me. Speaker 1 (19:15) Yes. Because there's only one Brynn Erikson. Right. And Christ cares about that one Brynn Erikson. God, you know, the power of God cares about that one Brynn Erikson. Speaker 2 (19:26) I believe so. And that's for every individual, regardless of the choices that we make. that's, we're here to use agency. Right, truly. practice using it, maybe, or just to use it in general. ⁓ My beliefs of what is to come after this, I have no idea. We can theorize all we want. Right. And there's lots of beliefs. ⁓ Speaker 1 (19:57) Isn't that like the beautiful thing about the journey that we're on together? Like everyone's a part of the journey together. Speaker 2 (20:05) Absolutely, it's a collective. ⁓ Then you can join in on trying to help and ease the burdens and lift of each other or you can make it harder for each other and you can complicate it and grace comes into play because we all see things so differently. Where you might see something as helpful, I might see it as hurtful and that's where... Speaker 1 (20:34) Or criticizing, right? So many people are like, it's constructive criticism, but it's hard, right? Cause we're all each our individual things and your lens matters. And that's why just being here, having our own experience, like you said, but ⁓ serving others in kindness, I think is like such a huge. Yep. Exactly. Speaker 2 (20:45) Yeah. and doing your best to do that even if it isn't perfect and that's where humility comes into play and saying sorry and all you do to watch your beats of Christ. So yeah, that's where I've landed on it's pretty simple here to have an experience. Speaker 1 (21:13) I love that. I love that and it's so true. So true, Brynn. Okay. So. ⁓ If you could understand the answer, this is little bit of a deep dive, but if you could understand the answer, what would you ask Jesus if you were here right now? just first off the cuff. Speaker 2 (21:38) Right now for me, I want to know how much of my thoughts are my own and how much of them am I being acted upon by an external force or power. Speaker 1 (21:50) ⁓ that's beautiful. True self discernment. That's something really good to pray for Brynn. Speaker 2 (21:52) really Love you. trying to figure that one out. I've gotten a lot better at just whatever thought comes to my mind, just getting curious about it and examining it. And if it's a lines, great, I keep it. If it doesn't, I throw it out. regardless. Speaker 1 (22:14) And it's okay to throw something out. Like how many times are we told that, you you got to do this, you have to do this, you have to do this. And if you don't do one of those things, it leads to a negative, but it's okay to throw something out. Like it's just such a gift to be able to throw something out and to not let it affect you and still keep the positive of that person in that situation or however that looks like. Speaker 2 (22:16) Absolutely. Yeah, so that's been a big one. That would be something I would love to know the logistics of. I'm sure it's a lot simpler because I'm learning that things are more simple than we think. But what's really working for me is just what, who do I want to be and what aligns with me. And if that thought that comes to my mind doesn't, I'm not gonna. Speaker 1 (23:05) Yep. Speaker 2 (23:06) Yeah, I'm not going put any emphasis on that. That would be a cool thing to talk to him about. Speaker 1 (23:13) Love that. Okay, next question. Kind of leading into that. What was the moment when you felt the spirit tell you, yep, this is the day I do this. I'm starting middle ground. This is the time and I'm doing it. What did that moment look like for you when your ⁓ core values started to turn on what Brynn was going to define Brynn's faith as? Speaker 2 (23:42) Yeah. It was a process of trust for sure. I was very resistant to it because it was so new and so foreign, especially when you're getting thoughts that again are so contradictory to what you were raised to believe ⁓ that a family with children not going to church or doing any of the covenant path things ⁓ could actually end up being together and okay. but it felt so good and I had, I just didn't want to feel anything but that and I had to trust it. And that's when middle ground truly started to take shape for me. It was definitely just allowing myself to be in this messy middle of not knowing. but being present there, not running away from it, but existing in it. And I don't know that we're meant to stay in middle ground forever. There's so many different ways you can look at middle ground. That's why I kind of like it is it can speak to you however it needs to. However it aligns with you, whether that's where you want to be, where you aim to be, or it's a place of temporary residence. Speaker 1 (24:59) Love her. ⁓ readjustments or reorganize. Speaker 2 (25:11) evaluate and then you move forward in either one direction or the other. So ⁓ that's how it materialized for me as far as the podcast. It didn't come until a little later when I was feeling more confident and having more conversations with people who were in the same position as me. It is fascinating and beautiful when you are willing to open up about your doubts and your ⁓ questions. You find a lot of other people feel the same way or have at least pondered the questions even if they haven't come to the same conclusion as you. And that has been really fun and beautiful to witness and be a part of. I just ⁓ Speaker 1 (25:59) Yeah, you find out you're not alone. You feel so alone. It feels like such a only Brin's walking this journey, only Jennifer's walking this journey, only, you you walking this journey. there's a lot, right? There's a lot more people that feel the same way we feel, which leads to a truth that like, we're just trying our best as human beings, we're trying our best. Speaker 2 (26:02) Because you feel really alone. Speaker 1 (26:27) And in general, the answer sounds like if we trust, we're gonna get there okay. We're gonna be okay together. Speaker 2 (26:33) That seems to be a common theme with a lot of people is if you allow yourself to be in the process and actually get curious about your questions and your doubts, you come to find that you reach peace and a beautiful new Speaker 1 (26:52) Not just peace living in the world, but like truly a peace within yourself that maybe you didn't even know you were missing before. Speaker 2 (27:02) Yeah, so true. Speaker 1 (27:05) Yeah. Okay. With that said, what is advice? What's some advice, general advice, personal advice, however detailed advice you want to go or non-detailed, but something to someone who's seeking what you were seeking a few years ago, what would you tell them in a marital situation where maybe the other doesn't think the same or? maybe they're afraid to really even explore because it's really, again, as we've already said multiple times during this podcast, it's really hard to ⁓ be aware of that fear or recognition or thought of, whoa, something's not sitting right. And it's really easy to cover it up with a nice fuzzy blanket and be like, I'll tackle this later. Like, what would you say to this situation? Speaker 2 (28:02) So actually people ask me, like, does your husband think about where you're at? And I tell them, actually he's okay with it. But obviously I haven't left the tradition. I haven't stepped away from it. And I do know that if that were to occur, we would be having a different conversation. But we have built such a beautiful foundation because I've been so honest and open in my, since the beginning. ⁓ It was hard to put into words, but thankfully, Dallin is my person and I love him so much that I wanted him to be a part of my process. Speaker 1 (28:41) I'm going to pause you right there. Can you tell me ⁓ if you wouldn't mind a little bit, describe some of those first words that you finally found the voice to. What did those words sound like? Speaker 2 (28:53) Yeah, those were, they were questions, like things I was specifically, like one of the hardest conversations we had was what is truth? And I would, I wouldn't surprise him. I'd just be like, Hey, do you have some time that we could talk about something that's on my mind tonight or tomorrow? And he would give me some of his time. I, thankfully I've been doing like some therapy and some life coaching. I was, it's easier for me to be like, I don't expect you like to advocate for myself and our relationship. It's like, I don't expect you to have the right answers. There's no right answers here. I'm just truly trying to sort out what I'm thinking. This is very new for me. And I'm trying to put it into words and I'm trying to make sense of it. And because I love you, I want you to be in on this with me. Speaker 1 (29:48) Yeah, and I don't want to keep anything from my mind from you because you also chose to love me. And right now, this is Brynn's mind. Together. Speaker 2 (29:59) Right. we committed to do this together. And if you're married in the temple, that even puts more somewhat pressure on the relationship. When you do believe in this, we have to do the same things. Otherwise, this is a good out for us. Yeah. Yep. So and when you have a spouse that is all in on that and can't reconcile that, then you definitely probably should get some additional help and figure out, figure that out. But All I can say is when... get emotional. For me, love, which is the first and greatest commandment, supersedes everything else that has ever been taught or ever will be taught in any religion. from here forward or that has ever existed. Speaker 1 (31:01) words of truth by God's own mouth. I just want to throw that in there Speaker 2 (31:05) I think if you take your situation and your true desires to God He, they help you make sense of it. Right, and it didn't make sense to me that if God loves families, why would He want them to fall apart? Speaker 1 (31:19) they provide the way. Speaker 2 (31:35) for his religion. Like, why would we put so many stipulations and rules on what family should be like to qualify to be in his presence when there are endless variations of families? Like, there is no one right way of being a person. There's no one right way of being a family unit. And if the only thing that keeps a family together is that you go through a building and you're saying that you're going to do things, then to me that really limits God's power and potential. Speaker 1 (32:18) tenfold over. I could not agree more. And in fact, the New Testament testifies of that. Acts 2 and Acts 7. God does not dwell in temples built by man's hands, word for word. The end. Period. What else does Jesus say? I will change your hearts. What else does Jesus say? You will inherit my presence for those who have never seen yet still believed and walked in my attributes. The end. Greatest two commandments right there. The end. ⁓ Speaker 2 (33:01) think we limit God's magnitude, His majesty, and His love, and not to belittle temples and covenants because I do think those are beautiful parts of organized religion. Speaker 1 (33:18) They are, and they're mirrors of what God truly was trying to say. You, Bryn Erickson, are my house. Me, Jen, I am a house of light waiting to be turned on. ⁓ aha, so now we see the devices of men with outside temples and outside religions, but. Speaker 2 (33:37) Yeah, and I do. And I've seen that across all many religions and people. We like having a place to go to. Like this is all just meaning. Yeah, making sense, making meaning in our little finite minds, trying to make sense of bigger things that we have had a veil placed over for a reason. Yep. And I it's with good intent. Speaker 1 (33:47) congregating, gathering. Speaker 2 (34:06) I believe that it is striving to take care of people. ⁓ I don't, ⁓ but I do believe that there have been a lot of limitations on how life can be lived and still honored and good and worthy and. Speaker 1 (34:23) Perhaps. Yep, all of the good words, all of those good words, that's right. And it's interesting because I believe and I would definitely think, we share the similar road path in the sense of like you believe that. as we change, as we continue to walk our journey. ⁓ the good things that we do enable us to receive gifts of God. God is waiting to bless us. God is waiting to change our families all together to ⁓ a more enlightenment type of person, ⁓ to be greater people, like to experience greater things, to have joy, be good people and grow and grow and have our minds opened even more so, right? The true unveiling is... ⁓ a mind that is changed for good. That is the true unbelling. And ⁓ the true spiritually renewed in Christ is a heart that used to love sin, but the new heart that just wants to do good and wants to try their best, right? So all these amazing things. Speaker 2 (35:46) And what's cool about all those things is you get to do them on your own. Speaker 1 (35:49) Exactly. And they look exactly as you said, like your own experiences because they are your own experiences changing you or shaping you. Speaker 2 (36:00) It's not contingent upon being given or blessed or you have complete control of that within your journey. Speaker 1 (36:13) Yep. Speaking of having control in the journey, let's bring up kids. Okay. If you could ingrain one thing into your kids that they never veered from, what would you teach them? Speaker 2 (36:34) that love truly is everything. I don't exactly know what that is. I think we try so hard to define love and I don't know that there is one definition. Right. Objective. Speaker 1 (36:45) Right, right, right. Because when your son, right, right. Like when your son or your boys, you know, get into a fight, love looks a lot like separating in timeouts, right? That's love because we're keeping the peace, right? But other times we love each other and it's a group hug and we bring them all in and that's love, right? Like. Speaker 2 (37:04) There's so many aspects of it, but I do believe it's a good guiding star. Speaker 1 (37:09) Yes, absolutely. Love never faileth, as Jesus said. Speaker 2 (37:12) Right, and I think it's important to take time to create a relationship with yourself as much as it is with other people and with God. Speaker 1 (37:24) I think that's really important. Speaker 2 (37:26) Yeah, I think I like to keep it simple even though love isn't that even my brother is like dating he's like what's love I'm like my gosh like I don't know like that's a totally different you're like I can question mark Speaker 1 (37:31) Even though that was... Undefined? Is that undefined? Messy? Amazing. experience. Hard. Speaker 2 (37:44) And I can see I found love. But that's going to be totally different from everyone else's experiences. Speaker 1 (37:57) Yeah, it's just the heart finding yourself, the heart finding itself. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yep, okay. ⁓ One of my last like two or three questions. Speaker 2 (38:01) while you're putting it. Speaker 1 (38:13) Ugh, I'm gonna try not to cry because... Brynn, you're just such an incredible person and you're doing so good with your life. Speaker 2 (38:16) you Speaker 1 (38:25) when you meet your savior. what's something that you hope you hear him say to you. Speaker 2 (38:37) first phrase that just came to my mind which is so funny is hearing him say you kneeled it. You did it! You got it! I'm so proud of you. Speaker 1 (38:45) I love. celebration. Brynn, you passed. Speaker 2 (38:53) Yeah. Yeah, whatever that means. Right. Yeah. Speaker 1 (38:59) Isn't it funny though that if you heard that because that's just what came to your heart your heart would know that it's ⁓ Speaker 2 (39:05) Yeah. Amazing. And I love that. fact, there was a conference talk or something. I was talking with some ladies about it and it was if you met Jesus today or if you knew Jesus was coming to your house, like what would you do and what would you think? Right. lot of the ladies were like, I would need to clean up or I would feel inaccurate or Speaker 1 (39:27) The face to face. Speaker 2 (39:33) ⁓ incompetent and not enough and I was like Speaker 1 (39:37) Martha, you're missing the point, Speaker 2 (39:39) I was truly like, I wouldn't care what state my house was in. I'm like stoked. Out of my mind. Speaker 1 (39:47) Jump into his arms. What took you so long? Speaker 2 (39:51) ⁓ I've learned since I've learned so much about myself and to trust myself and my worth and my value comes from me and no one else Yeah, it's allowed me to show up in lots of different ways and that I would not have before like I truly am fine with people coming to my house and it being in disarray and That doesn't have to mean anything about me and answering the door in a robe and my nightgown and my messy bun and saying, how are you? Do you need something? Are you coming in? Okay, cool. Like, right. It has. Speaker 1 (40:34) Yeah, because people close in your life don't show up to sit at clean countertop. They ring your doorbell to see you. Speaker 2 (40:45) But I've gotten to the point where it doesn't even matter who it is. Like I got a mailbox in my room. Like I don't care. But that has come through realizing that my worth, regardless of how I show up in this lifetime, is just mine. I own it. I don't have to earn it. I just inherently have it because of whose child I am. And that has changed everything. for me. So. Speaker 1 (41:18) Yeah, so what does being a daughter of God mean to you? Yeah. Speaker 2 (41:23) for me, it... Yeah, I am the daughter of the ultimate creator. Speaker 1 (41:25) just that. And everything a part of you is inherently yours. And you don't have to do anything to earn it because you are living and breathing right now and you are you all of it. Speaker 2 (41:40) and I am made of divine DNA. Like, I can do anything. My potential is limitless. Like, I feel invincible. If I wanted to put Speaker 1 (41:57) You should, Queen, because that's what Jesus is waiting for. He's waiting for people like you to show up and say, I am a queen of God waiting for a crown on my head next to Jesus, not below him at his feet, because a good father loves to raise up his kids. Speaker 2 (42:18) Yeah, and we'll find every way to encourage you, to strengthen you. And I believe that more people are on that team of please use me to lift and love and strengthen my brothers and sisters. That is when life gets exciting because you are busy. Like if you want to be on that team, there's always an opportunity and it doesn't even have to be big. Speaker 1 (42:21) That's right. Speaker 2 (42:46) and it's in lots of small ways, but I'm so grateful for every prompt. I'm really good at texting, so I love every prompting that I have of a person that comes to my name or to my head. And I just text them, hey, your name came to my mind. Why might that be? And yeah, and they're just simple ways, but simple ways can have profound impacts at the store and when we're driving and. Speaker 1 (43:04) Love that. Acting on your thoughts. small and simple means bring about the works of God. Speaker 2 (43:18) That mustard seed like how many analogies Speaker 1 (43:21) The little spark, right? Little tiny spark can grow into big and brightest things, right? It's his parable. The smallest of seed, the biggest of trees. Speaker 2 (43:32) So it's everything and whether you believe it or not, it doesn't matter. But when you do and you take ownership of it, it's pretty. Speaker 1 (43:44) Yeah, everything about you changes. Speaker 2 (43:46) Amazing things. Yeah for good or for bad like it is the same power that power can be used either to do great good or great harm Which yes a lot of responsibility. Yeah Speaker 1 (43:58) Yeah, because it's agency that each individual of us have, Speaker 2 (44:01) Yeah, that's what I believe. Speaker 1 (44:04) That's beautiful. That's a beautiful belief. All right, last question. ⁓ Speaker 2 (44:07) Thanks. Speaker 1 (44:12) if you had the microphone to the world, but Jesus is behind you. Three words, what do you say? Speaker 2 (44:24) to. Speaker 1 (44:29) Jesus is your backbone. What do you say? And you never deny it because you know it. Those words are in you and you know it's true and he is right on your back. Like listen to her. What do you say? Speaker 2 (44:46) The first thing that comes to mind is you are enough. ⁓ I don't think we're here to prove anything, which took a lot of work. Speaker 1 (45:01) Yes, unwiring it takes everything to believe that. Speaker 2 (45:06) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, you truly are enough. I don't know what that will entail on the other side because in my theology it was always you do the things to earn the outcome. Speaker 1 (45:22) And if it's not the tippy-tappy tier, well, then you didn't deserve it. Yeah, just so much mind imprisonment. And really, everything about being a free daughter of God is everything opposite of that. It's exactly as you said. Speaker 2 (45:28) Yeah. Speaker 1 (45:47) owning everything you are, everything God has to give you, everything God changes you to become that you are not yet. Everything. It's what really... Speaker 2 (45:54) Yeah. The parts, the good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful, where all of it, the light and the dark. ⁓ And then was, it's meant to be that way. We have to have the opposites to learn and appreciate the ups. Yep. Over the downs. Otherwise we wouldn't know. So to villainize our weaknesses, our shortcomings, ⁓ and say that God will make up for those. It doesn't even make sense to me anymore. it's... You just have it. It's just within you. And funny enough... Even though you might think, well then what's the point? Like you could go, if you're loved and worthy no matter what, you can go and steal and hurt people and all of that. Yeah, you can, but why? That's not the person I want to be. I still know who I want to be because I chose conscientiously that I want to be her. To me, it's way more fun to help someone smile. Speaker 1 (47:12) Yep. absolutely. You right? It's you choose to put on and wear the attributes that Jesus tells us to. You choose to wear the kindness and wear love. Speaker 2 (47:28) And I don't believe you have to. Right. And like I said, to earn anything. if you want to find as much peace and joy and love in this life, I do believe that there is. You. You want the way. Speaker 1 (47:39) We'll try. We'll try that. Right. If you want to. Exactly. It's really simple. If you want to have a good life, you will try out the practice of being kind, you know? And it is simple. Yeah. Yep. Speaker 2 (47:58) So you are enough exactly as you are. And if you want to change or become more than who you are, it's because you want to. And to me, it's worth it. Yeah. Speaker 1 (48:11) It is worth the effort. And Brynn, I just want to close with, ⁓ truly... Knowing you has been a blessing being able to grow a relationship with you and see what you think of life is a treat and I Have seen it very early on but Christ is standing right behind you constantly pointing pointing at her mouth, you know listen to her You have such beautiful thoughts. You have such beautiful words of testimony, every single person would benefit from listening to. Because you preach good. Because you preach about how to love, even when you're different, how to be kind, even if you don't agree. ⁓ And that is what is so beautiful about everything you're doing to establish a middle ground so that the peace of Christ can come in to the conversation. So thank you. Speaker 2 (49:20) That was really, really nice of you, Jen. And I feel, yeah, I feel so honored to have met you and so many other amazing people because I'm willing to. I think I asked you like, so do you do the church thing at the park? That's kind of my opener. Like it's silly, but I've learned. Speaker 1 (49:37) Yeah. But it's and actually it's where to start Speaker 2 (49:46) It's easy and not. Speaker 1 (49:49) Yeah, it's not too heavy. Speaker 2 (49:51) And then they can kind of like, what do you mean? I'm like, do you go to church? Speaker 1 (49:55) Yeah, like what's your Sundays look like? What is church to you? Speaker 2 (49:58) You don't you tell me about it. Yeah, that has been the most helpful opener to vulnerability and honesty that I was guided to and I'm so grateful that you reciprocated because not everybody does and that's okay. Yep. It is my vulnerability and willingness to talk about the hard messy things brings connection. Speaker 1 (50:26) Yep. Speaker 2 (50:27) and lightens loads. And I just gonna say, and to me that's what being a disciple of Jesus Christ is all about, is just sitting with people, asking the questions, and then not having to save or condemn or prove, but to take it in and then either in that moment or later, like what do I really think about that? Speaker 1 (50:29) It does, yeah. And it's the gospel of Christ at work. reflect. Speaker 2 (50:55) And it's okay if you land in the same place. trying to see, why might they, how is that work? Why is that working for them? That's a great question to ask people. Tell me about how this is working for you. Why is this working for you? How did you find this? And trusting that everyone's journey is honored by God just as much as yours, even though you'll land in different places. Speaker 1 (51:19) Yep. And the journey might be harder or easier for others. But that's okay too, because I have gone through, you a lot of family things. You've gone through a lot of family things, but we love our family so much. It's almost like a godly appreciation that maybe one day we'll say, we wouldn't have had it any other way. Thank you, God. Speaker 2 (51:44) Yeah, I've heard that people go through some really hard things and even as hard as it was, they wouldn't necessarily go back and do it over again because of they are after. And there are some atrocious things that happen in this life and I don't know how to make sense of that. But I sure want to help as many people as I can in whatever way they need me. And thankfully, God knows. Yep. And if we're willing. Speaker 1 (52:14) And that's the true X too is serving. How can I help you? Speaker 2 (52:19) Right. Right, what does that look like in this moment? Yep. Thank you, Jen. Speaker 1 (52:24) Yep. Well, thank you for helping me, Bryn. You help me all the time. I appreciate it. Yeah. I appreciate it. You're so welcome. Speaker 2 (52:29) Likewise.