Latest / I Do, Part 2 / It’s a Secret Love Story, 40 Years in The Making: Ollie and Fawn

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It’s a Secret Love Story, 40 Years in The Making: Ollie and Fawn · I Do, Part 2

0:02
Speaker 1: Hey there are folks. It is Sunday, September the fourteenth,
0:06
Speaker 1: and a love story forty years in the making. Congratulations
0:11
Speaker 1: to Oliver and font The couple just got married recently,
0:18
Speaker 1: but their love stories started forty years ago, and it
0:21
Speaker 1: started with one of the biggest political scandals in US history.
0:27
Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to this episode of Amy and TJ and Robes.
0:31
Speaker 1: Do you I guess Watergate? But when you think biggest
0:36
Speaker 1: political scandals of all time, where does your mind actually.
0:42
Speaker 2: Go, Well, Watergate is definitely. Now that you've put that
0:44
Speaker 2: in my head, it's got to be number one. And look,
0:47
Speaker 2: a lot of this has to do with whoever's listening.
0:50
Speaker 2: How old you are, Yes, but if you are of
0:53
Speaker 2: a certain age, another scandal that will come immediately to you.
0:57
Speaker 2: And if you if it didn't when I say it,
0:59
Speaker 2: it'll be f familiar. The Iran Contra affair. And so
1:03
Speaker 2: for me, that was when I was I think I
1:08
Speaker 2: was still in single digits, but I remember it always
1:10
Speaker 2: being on like we didn't have We didn't have twenty
1:13
Speaker 2: four or seven television period and certainly not news agencies,
1:18
Speaker 2: but this was something that was on constantly, and even
1:22
Speaker 2: I remember the uproar and the constant coverage. Even as
1:27
Speaker 2: a kid, I remember the Iran contra affair.
1:30
Speaker 1: I for whatever, does it count? The Clarence Thomas I
1:35
Speaker 1: remember that.
1:35
Speaker 2: Yes, that was huge to Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas, that
1:39
Speaker 2: was all in the same vein. Actually, I've just did
1:40
Speaker 2: the math. I think I was more. I think I
1:43
Speaker 2: was like ten eleven, twelve, like that age. But it's
1:46
Speaker 2: you're impressionable enough. You don't know and remember all the specifics,
1:50
Speaker 2: but you remember the players and you remember the general
1:53
Speaker 2: concept of the controversy.
1:56
Speaker 1: You know what that's throwing me now to your point,
1:58
Speaker 1: just how impressional we are and how much these things
2:03
Speaker 1: impact of Why am I? When I was a kid,
2:08
Speaker 1: I remember watching Anita Hill.
2:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so do I test?
2:12
Speaker 1: I remember Clarence Thomas about a damn coke can.
2:15
Speaker 2: But here's my question. So we didn't have obviously, we
2:18
Speaker 2: didn't have iPhones, we didn't have mobile phones, we didn't
2:22
Speaker 2: have computers, we didn't have email, we didn't have access
2:26
Speaker 2: to information. So when you did, when something rose to
2:30
Speaker 2: the level that it got your attention as a ten, eleven,
2:33
Speaker 2: twelve year old, it had to be serious. Because now
2:37
Speaker 2: our kids from TikTok and whatever you name it. They
2:41
Speaker 2: know kind of everything that they have the basic idea
2:45
Speaker 2: of what's going on. They're in tune. We were not
2:48
Speaker 2: unless it got to a certain level, and these specific
2:53
Speaker 2: controversies were few and far between. But when they were there,
2:57
Speaker 2: you remember that you.
2:58
Speaker 1: Know the other without a doubt. And some would maybe
3:01
Speaker 1: even does some degree, put this larger than I don't
3:04
Speaker 1: know about larger than Watergate, but Lewinsky scandal, Monica Lewinsky, Oh.
3:10
Speaker 2: God, yeah, I mean I was already working at that point,
3:13
Speaker 2: wasn't I or in college? At least I was in
3:15
Speaker 2: college at that point, but one, yeah, I was. I
3:18
Speaker 2: was college aged, but yes, yes, And obviously O. J.
3:21
Speaker 2: Simpson like, there were just certain moments, certain trials, certain
3:26
Speaker 2: scandals that rose to a level that no matter what
3:29
Speaker 2: age you were, you knew of them.
3:30
Speaker 1: So of all the political scandals we think of, if
3:34
Speaker 1: you think of a love connection coming out of one,
3:37
Speaker 1: it's hard to think no iran contra.
3:39
Speaker 2: That usually does not happen. There are not usually love
3:42
Speaker 2: connections formed in those moments.
3:44
Speaker 1: This is the one, folks, A love story forty years
3:47
Speaker 1: in the making, and yes, it all comes out of
3:51
Speaker 1: the Iran Contra affair, if.
3:53
Speaker 2: You'll remember, in the late eighties, this was the scandal
3:56
Speaker 2: that erupted in the Reagan administration. So it was discovered
4:00
Speaker 2: that the US was secretly selling weapons to Iran and
4:05
Speaker 2: then using the proceeds from those illegal sales to fund
4:10
Speaker 2: anti government rebels in Nicaragua. Oh my god, this is
4:13
Speaker 2: all coming back to me right. There were daily televised,
4:18
Speaker 2: high drama congressional hearings that were investigating what was actually happening.
4:23
Speaker 2: And at the center of all of this, we all remembered.
4:26
Speaker 2: He was handsome, he was dashing, he was in command.
4:31
Speaker 2: His name, of course, was Marine Corp Lieutenant Oliver North,
4:35
Speaker 2: or as he was called in my house, Ali North. Yeah,
4:39
Speaker 2: I will say, I remember my family. This might be
4:42
Speaker 2: giving away a little bit, but they were big fans
4:44
Speaker 2: of Olie North. They loved him. Yeah, so he was
4:47
Speaker 2: like a national hero in my house, Ali North.
4:50
Speaker 1: You remember why?
4:51
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I just remember. So it's funny
4:53
Speaker 2: I as a kid, when I think of Oli North,
4:56
Speaker 2: regardless of what he was charged with and convicted of
4:59
Speaker 2: and pardon, I thought he was a good guy. He
5:03
Speaker 2: was a hero. Like That's my takeaway as a kid,
5:06
Speaker 2: like just the feeling in my home.
5:07
Speaker 1: This weird to thing, like what was that that that
5:10
Speaker 1: shaped that narrative in some way.
5:12
Speaker 2: I don't know.
5:12
Speaker 1: He was doing his duty, right, he doing he was
5:15
Speaker 1: following orders, he was still doing something in service of
5:18
Speaker 1: the country. I'm sure a lot of people did see
5:20
Speaker 1: it that way.
5:21
Speaker 2: Other might not have. I was I was living at
5:25
Speaker 2: that point. This was late eighties, so I guess at
5:31
Speaker 2: that point, I maybe my family had just moved from
5:33
Speaker 2: Missouri to Georgia, conservative areas, so it would make sense. Yes,
5:38
Speaker 2: so Ali North was a National Security Council staffer. He
5:42
Speaker 2: oversaw a lot of this covert and yes illegal program.
5:48
Speaker 2: But when everything hit the fan, Ali famously shredded the documents.
5:52
Speaker 2: We remember this, right, the shredder. This is when I
5:54
Speaker 2: think I first learned about what a paper shredder was.
5:56
Speaker 2: But he shredded the documents that were the evidence of
6:01
Speaker 2: this covert program. And it was his secretary, the beautiful
6:05
Speaker 2: oh see. And maybe this is also why I remembered
6:08
Speaker 2: she was like a part time model, gorgeous fawn Hall.
6:12
Speaker 2: She helped him as his secretary shred documents and then
6:16
Speaker 2: even smuggle some of them out of the White House
6:20
Speaker 2: into her clothing like that was all testified to and together. Definitely,
6:27
Speaker 2: Oliver North and Fawn Hall were Yeah, they were the
6:30
Speaker 2: two most famous and central figures of the Iran Contra scandal. Well,
6:36
Speaker 2: guess what everyone forty years later a very secret and
6:44
Speaker 2: kind of buried headline that I just happened to see
6:47
Speaker 2: this week that sent me running to tj oh my god,
6:53
Speaker 2: guess what. Oliver North and Fawn Hall have just gotten married.
7:00
Speaker 1: Congratulations to them. Congratulations, this is you. I don't know
7:06
Speaker 1: what the reaction is supposed to be short of anyone
7:10
Speaker 1: who's making a decision that you want to get married.
7:13
Speaker 1: I congratulate you to get to that point that there's
7:16
Speaker 1: somebody you want to take that step with. Congratulations. They
7:19
Speaker 1: have a history that makes this love story a significant
7:24
Speaker 1: one and a fascinating one. And when I want to
7:28
Speaker 1: hear so much more about it.
7:29
Speaker 2: I would love to have a glass of wine and
7:34
Speaker 2: pull up next to these two and say we want
7:37
Speaker 2: to hear about your story everything. So I also want
7:42
Speaker 2: to say this, I love someone. Look, I told you
7:45
Speaker 2: I kind of grew up in a household that loved
7:47
Speaker 2: Ollie North. I want to be that person who at
7:53
Speaker 2: eighty one has so much zest for life and hope
7:57
Speaker 2: for life and belief and love and partnership.
8:01
Speaker 1: And believe in time.
8:03
Speaker 2: Yes that I feel like it is worthwhile at eighty
8:06
Speaker 2: one to get married again. I think that's pretty cool.
8:11
Speaker 1: And a remind or say a reminder. Most people aren't
8:14
Speaker 1: aware he was married fifty six years.
8:17
Speaker 2: Fifty six years.
8:18
Speaker 1: She just passed within the past.
8:20
Speaker 2: She passed in no year, November of twenty twenty four
8:23
Speaker 2: she passed, so just shy of a year. But yes,
8:27
Speaker 2: so we know the official marriage date of Olie North
8:30
Speaker 2: and Fawn Hall. It was August twenty seventh, and so
8:34
Speaker 2: his wife who passed was in November, so that would
8:38
Speaker 2: be what nine months after her passing, the two got married.
8:42
Speaker 2: And the story as they tell it, how they met
8:46
Speaker 2: or rekindled or I shouldn't say rekindled. That's not fair.
8:50
Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, that's that's not fair.
8:53
Speaker 2: They they were reintroduced to one another, they began dating.
8:59
Speaker 2: They reconnected, that's the word I was looking for. Reconnected.
9:02
Speaker 2: At the funeral of his wife. This is according to
9:04
Speaker 2: a family friend who discussed their relationship, which had been
9:08
Speaker 2: secret to all of us and to almost everyone.
9:14
Speaker 1: And that's okay. I don't think there's scrutiny necessary. The
9:19
Speaker 1: first thing I hear about this is I thought, can
9:25
Speaker 1: I think it beautiful? Can I think you know what
9:27
Speaker 1: I am always a fan of are unorthodox or just
9:33
Speaker 1: non traditional love stories right, and non traditional stories of
9:38
Speaker 1: marriage and the idea that an eighty one year old man,
9:42
Speaker 1: no matter what, wants to and thinks there's value in
9:46
Speaker 1: getting married. I don't know what their reasons were, if
9:50
Speaker 1: it's purely love, if it's purely romantic, or of all
9:55
Speaker 1: I know, it could be having to do with insurance.
9:58
Speaker 2: I have no idea. The fact that these two have
10:00
Speaker 2: history and the history that they have together, look and
10:04
Speaker 2: there was I think that people might have raised eyebrows.
10:07
Speaker 2: He was a very good looking, even older man at
10:10
Speaker 2: that point. She was obviously a gorgeous woman. He even
10:13
Speaker 2: acknowledged it during the testimony during the Iran Contra hearings.
10:20
Speaker 2: I actually have a quote. The New York Times did
10:21
Speaker 2: a story about their marriage and they even remarked that
10:25
Speaker 2: during the testimony, Ali North said this, under oath, you
10:30
Speaker 2: know that I've got a beautiful secretary, and the Good
10:33
Speaker 2: Lord gave her the gift of beauty and the people
10:36
Speaker 2: snicker that Ollie North might have been doing a little
10:39
Speaker 2: hanky panky with his secretary. Ali North has been loyal
10:42
Speaker 2: to his wife since the day he married her, and
10:44
Speaker 2: he testified to that. He acknowledged he knew people were like, wow,
10:49
Speaker 2: you guys work together, and she shredded all these documents
10:52
Speaker 2: for you at the expense of her own potential legal freedom. Hmm.
10:59
Speaker 2: It was never proven, but certainly there were there was talk.
11:04
Speaker 1: And still she was and she was very you can
11:09
Speaker 1: call her young and beautiful, but there was also something
11:13
Speaker 1: what you say, dynamic about her parents. She had a
11:16
Speaker 1: look to her that was almost unique, and she had
11:18
Speaker 1: her big hair.
11:19
Speaker 2: So she was living in the eighties. She was full
11:22
Speaker 2: of okay, yeah, but she was a professional and to
11:25
Speaker 2: that point, so he says and maintains that he was
11:27
Speaker 2: loyal to his wife, his wife of fifty sixty years,
11:30
Speaker 2: by the way, and mother of their four children. She
11:33
Speaker 2: died in November, as we mentioned, at the age of eighty.
11:35
Speaker 2: But we should mention that Vaughn Hall actually went on
11:39
Speaker 2: to marry Danny Sugarman, who was a manager of the
11:41
Speaker 2: rock band The Doors, and she had some introduction to
11:46
Speaker 2: drugs and some issues and went through rehab and all
11:48
Speaker 2: of that. But they stayed together until he passed away
11:50
Speaker 2: in two thousand and five at the age of fifty.
11:53
Speaker 2: She was just forty six, so she has been a
11:55
Speaker 2: widow for twenty years. So she went on to get married.
11:58
Speaker 2: He stayed married. His wife dies this past year, and
12:03
Speaker 2: she's been a widow nearly for twenty years. The story
12:06
Speaker 2: is that she came to the funeral of his wife.
12:09
Speaker 2: She knew her obviously because she worked for her husband,
12:12
Speaker 2: and that is where they reconnected. And for I don't
12:16
Speaker 2: know this story. We no one knows the story of
12:18
Speaker 2: their romance. But they were married pretty quickly. But at
12:21
Speaker 2: a certain point, you understand that you don't have a
12:24
Speaker 2: lot of time left, so you got to get busy living.
12:26
Speaker 2: So there was no reason to wait. I mean, if
12:28
Speaker 2: they realized they had a connection, if they realized they
12:30
Speaker 2: had a partnership, if they realized that maybe they had
12:33
Speaker 2: always had this foundation of something and now they were
12:36
Speaker 2: actually able to explore it, good for them. That's amazing.
12:41
Speaker 2: I kind of love this story.
12:43
Speaker 1: I love this story too. There's nothing that I don't
12:47
Speaker 1: feel like, there's anything I need, no just together or
12:51
Speaker 1: raise an eyebrow or anything else. I'm fascinated how people
12:55
Speaker 1: like that can can stay that kind of connected after
13:01
Speaker 1: literal decades.
13:03
Speaker 2: Forty years Okay, so was.
13:06
Speaker 1: There something then? And I say something not a spark,
13:10
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean they acted on it. But I
13:12
Speaker 1: wonder if someone that far gone in your life, if
13:18
Speaker 1: there really was a forty year gap and then you
13:22
Speaker 1: reconnect and you're married in nine.
13:25
Speaker 2: Months, babe, I do Actually, that makes a lot of
13:27
Speaker 2: sense to me. Wow, you and I had I don't
13:31
Speaker 2: think neither one of us acknowledged it. We both weren't
13:34
Speaker 2: in a position to even consider exploring it, and it
13:36
Speaker 2: was never in my head. And we've talked about this
13:39
Speaker 2: multiple times, but we had a spark. We had a connection,
13:43
Speaker 2: and it wasn't necessarily romantic. It wasn't because we didn't
13:46
Speaker 2: explore it, we didn't let ourselves go there. But there
13:49
Speaker 2: was a connection. There was a spark, and anyone who
13:51
Speaker 2: watched us on TV would say, Wow, they have great chemistry.
13:55
Speaker 2: I think that can exist, and if the timing isn't right,
13:58
Speaker 2: it isn't right, But it doesn't mean that spark or
14:01
Speaker 2: that chemistry isn't still there in an undercurrent, and so
14:05
Speaker 2: then I totally get it when the time is right,
14:09
Speaker 2: when the path is cleared, whether it's through death, divorce, whatever,
14:14
Speaker 2: and then you decide, hey, you know that thing I
14:18
Speaker 2: think we both know exists, Let's see what happens. And
14:23
Speaker 2: when you get to a certain age, what are you
14:25
Speaker 2: waiting for? If you know? And you've lived a long
14:29
Speaker 2: time perhaps thinking about what if, and now you get
14:32
Speaker 2: the chance to say, let's figure it out. Let's find out.
14:36
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.
14:37
Speaker 1: You put it in some context. That helped me understand
14:39
Speaker 1: a little better. Okay, now I get it a little
14:44
Speaker 1: better when you put it in those terms. Yeah, something
14:46
Speaker 1: just being there. I am fascinated that that thing that
14:50
Speaker 1: was there forty years ago could still be there, that
14:54
Speaker 1: it can show itself once again. That I just I'm
15:00
Speaker 1: so fascinated by these this non traditional paths of love
15:05
Speaker 1: and marriage and what it looks like and what human
15:08
Speaker 1: connection can look like. I am. I love love, I do.
15:12
Speaker 1: I love this story for so many reasons. But it
15:15
Speaker 1: doesn't seem everybody necessarily loves this story. In particular, perhaps
15:20
Speaker 1: some in Oliver North's own family. Stay here, we'll tell
15:26
Speaker 1: you what some of his family members are saying about
15:31
Speaker 1: this marriage.
15:41
Speaker 2: Welcome back to this edition of Amy and TJ. And
15:45
Speaker 2: we are talking about a forty year love story. And
15:52
Speaker 2: there was I would imagine some level of love, respect, friendship, kinship,
15:57
Speaker 2: something that was there that stayed there between Oliver North
16:02
Speaker 2: and Fawn Hall. They worked together, they were grilled together,
16:06
Speaker 2: they went through public scrutiny together, and then they went
16:09
Speaker 2: on to live their own lives. She marries off, he
16:13
Speaker 2: stays married, and he claims and says very as Duteley
16:17
Speaker 2: testified to the fact that he remained loyal to his
16:21
Speaker 2: wife of fifty six years until the day she died
16:23
Speaker 2: in November of last year. But at her funeral, Oliver
16:27
Speaker 2: North and Fawn Hall, the central figures in the Iran
16:30
Speaker 2: contra affair, were brought back together, they say, and they
16:35
Speaker 2: very quickly in nine months, him at the age of
16:38
Speaker 2: eighty one, her at the age of sixty five sixty six.
16:41
Speaker 2: I've seen two different reports tied the knot in a
16:45
Speaker 2: secret ceremony August twenty seventh in the state of Virginia.
16:49
Speaker 2: And I say secret because it was I don't even
16:51
Speaker 2: know how some reporter dug up or found this marriage certificate,
16:54
Speaker 2: but it we've seen the photo imagery and the evidence,
16:59
Speaker 2: and they have not publicly commented on it. But some
17:03
Speaker 2: reporters have done their job and they have managed to
17:08
Speaker 2: at least get some sort of reaction from one of
17:12
Speaker 2: Oliver North's children. And look, you know, this is a
17:16
Speaker 2: touchy subject. They've lost their mom. He shared four children
17:19
Speaker 2: with his wife of fifty six years. But his daughter
17:26
Speaker 2: was asked about what she thought of the wedding. Her
17:31
Speaker 2: name is Sarah Katz, and the New York Times did
17:33
Speaker 2: this article and I thought this was really fascinating. But
17:35
Speaker 2: Sarah Katz said that she and her three siblings were
17:39
Speaker 2: not aware that their father was even in a relationship
17:43
Speaker 2: with Fawn Hall. And look, I get it, Like we
17:45
Speaker 2: get it. He understands why his children might not be
17:49
Speaker 2: receptive to that and why a lot of people might
17:53
Speaker 2: suddenly go aha, I knew it. They were always together,
17:58
Speaker 2: So it was just probably at this point, this stage
18:00
Speaker 2: in their lives and they've had enough publicity that they
18:03
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, let's just we're at a point where
18:06
Speaker 2: we can live for ourselves and not for anybody else.
18:08
Speaker 2: But anyway, Sarah Katz, his daughter, said that they had
18:12
Speaker 2: not seen Fawn Hall in decades until she did. Yes,
18:16
Speaker 2: they have confirmed she attended their mother's funeral late last year.
18:21
Speaker 2: And the quote from Sarah Katz is this, we were
18:25
Speaker 2: not at the wedding because we didn't know it was happening.
18:30
Speaker 2: And she said this this week to the New York Times.
18:33
Speaker 2: She said, and mostly this was sweet, and mostly we
18:37
Speaker 2: hope it won't impact our relationship with our dad because
18:41
Speaker 2: we do love him and we're still in the process
18:44
Speaker 2: of mourning our mother, which was a little bit Yeah,
18:49
Speaker 2: it can be true, and it can still be cutting.
18:51
Speaker 2: At the same time, it was it seemed as if
18:53
Speaker 2: a little bit of a veiled poke it we're still
18:56
Speaker 2: mourning our mom, Why aren't you that kind of a thing.
18:59
Speaker 2: But that might be reading into that statement.
19:01
Speaker 1: But that can be We'll go. That's tough. And I
19:06
Speaker 1: was doing the numbers on the years forty years ago,
19:10
Speaker 1: that would have put him at around forty forty one.
19:13
Speaker 1: That would have put her at around what twenty.
19:19
Speaker 2: Years younger than him? Like, give it, give her take
19:21
Speaker 2: a few Yeah, right, Well is she like, wait, sixty
19:24
Speaker 2: five and eighty one, I'm so bad with Matt. That's
19:26
Speaker 2: sixteen years younger.
19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have put her twenty five and him
19:31
Speaker 1: a forty one.
19:32
Speaker 2: There you go. See, I'm gonna go with with your
19:35
Speaker 2: your numbers.
19:36
Speaker 1: Those are good.
19:37
Speaker 2: Yes, So I mean, and that's a big age gap
19:40
Speaker 2: at that point and now later in life, I do
19:43
Speaker 2: think that's look I still think and I'm gonna choose
19:46
Speaker 2: to take them at their word that they both might
19:50
Speaker 2: have had feelings and maybe there was a spark and
19:52
Speaker 2: maybe there was some even just a kinship, maybe just
19:55
Speaker 2: a friendship, maybe just I like you, I've got your back,
19:58
Speaker 2: and there was a trust between to and when the
20:01
Speaker 2: right time reveals itself, they realized they had a connection
20:05
Speaker 2: that they could explore, that they could take deeper.
20:07
Speaker 1: But what happens at eighty one? Did you say it's
20:11
Speaker 1: still worth it? I love that to do this, to
20:13
Speaker 1: make this type of commitment, to make that statement at
20:17
Speaker 1: eighty one.
20:18
Speaker 2: It means that you still believe in love. It means
20:21
Speaker 2: that you still value the years and the time you have.
20:24
Speaker 2: No matter what your body looks like, no matter what
20:26
Speaker 2: your body is capable of, your mind and your heart
20:29
Speaker 2: are still beating and are still hungry for companionship and
20:33
Speaker 2: camaraderie and affection. I think that's really cool. I actually
20:37
Speaker 2: see this story, and I find hope in it that
20:40
Speaker 2: it's never too late to find love, it's never too
20:43
Speaker 2: late to give up to finding that special someone, and
20:47
Speaker 2: sometimes there are really awesome second chances and next chapters,
20:52
Speaker 2: and that can be just as beautiful as the first chapter.
20:56
Speaker 1: Congrats to the news at eighty one Congress all of
21:01
Speaker 1: the North, then Phone Hall and with that, folks, we
21:04
Speaker 1: always appreciate you hanging with us. For my dear pride,
21:08
Speaker 1: Amy Robot and T. J. Holmes was the ulcer m
21:13
Speaker 1: m hm
21:15
Speaker 2: Hm