Latest / Whiskey Chasers / Christmas Past with Rabbit Hole gin and La Gloria Cubana by STG

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Christmas Past with Rabbit Hole gin and La Gloria Cubana by STG · Whiskey Chasers

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Whiskey Chasers, where we talk about our passion for whiskey and its history, either amongst ourselves or while interviewing distilleries.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: All while enjoying a glass.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Steve.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Nick, and I'm Chris.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Please enjoy responsibly while enjoying this week's episode of The Whiskey Chasers.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: A whirlwind of inputs.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Whirlwind of inputs.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: It will take your palate through a whirlwind of inputs.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that it has inputs in it, it's gonna take my palate through inputs.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: A whirlwind of inputs, yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: What is gonna take us through a whirlwind of inputs?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: The whirlwind La Gloria Cubana.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: La Gloria Cubana.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's our tobacco today.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Tobacco of the day.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of an old, old, cool looking old like label.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like an old oriental kind of lady.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: So this is actually made, uh, this is a brand that you know it's like cigars and and whatnot.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: But this is in English, and it's made by STG, Lane Limited.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, but this one's from 21, so it's got a little bit of age on it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't remember when I bought these.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I saw them at one point and I bought like a couple tins, and they've just been sitting in the cellar.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I've never tried it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: So never tried and never opened.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Never open, never tried.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just cool.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's kind of got that old school vibe thing going.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, like it's just in English.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't really know if there's any sort of cigar thing about it, but they definitely have cigars for this brand.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: So with that label on it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, it's cubano, right?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Cubano.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're gonna have Cubana Cigars.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think what it is is the company, this company like maybe had STG make it for them, if that makes sense.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't think STG owns this company or anything like that.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: But they definitely have cigars.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: So here's one of these if you need it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Try to pop it with your fingers.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I can do it with my bare hands, but yeah, I'll man the man.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Hercules, Hercules.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember that?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as you're trying to open that, we're we're we're doing something unique and different.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is December.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna kind of go through some different spirits.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: We are different spirits, and this was brought up by Chris and the the old uh Ebenezer Scrooge.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Ebenezer Scrooge, right?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, the the spirits, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: From Charles Dickens, Charles Dickens Christmas Carol.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: Christmas Carol, yep.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, look.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: I see it's got some browning to it already.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, nice.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Starting to get some age to it.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: For do we know roughly how old this was?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Said said 21, so not that old.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: Unless this unless that labels, maybe that's not the label.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: FA21.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's actually I don't know.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's been at least man, that's aromatic.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I haven't had a English in a minute.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say you've kind of been off the English for a little bit.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: But dude, maybe it's because I haven't had it in a while, but isn't that strong?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: I've even like opened it up.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was gonna say that that's got a cover on it still, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but just smell it through the cover.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my, it's like nightcap, but stronger.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they make this they make nightcap, so I thought maybe that's like uh that's like a campfire, my friend.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's like Lafroy, that's like logovolen.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's creosote, yeah.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So uh our our spirit of Christmas past is is a old spirit, it is with a twist.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: We are the whiskey changers, right?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we had to kind of stick in line with that idea, exactly.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So so we are going with the gin today for our Christmas past, a traditional London dry gin.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: A London dry gin, and we'll talk about what that means, but it is finished in rye barrels, which is unique, and so yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So normally there are barrel finished gins out there, but rye, I think, is a little bit special.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's the unique part.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't seen anyone do a rye barrel for the finish and tantalizing.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: It impartalizing it imparts a whole different flavor.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Watershed has their bourbon barrel gin, but it's nothing like this.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, and it's in their bourbon barrel, right?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not rye.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Most of them do bourbon barrels because it adds a bit of sweetness, and they they they stick with the dry, they stick with the that traditional feel, which is part of the Christmas past.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Old school.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: This started it off.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, have you seen what this name of this bottle is?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Bespoke.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is also like kind of old school kind of feel.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not really so it's coming back, like slowly coming back of guys like bespoke as like a style, I guess.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: But like it was kind of that old guy formal, like I think of like gentlemanly, yeah, study pretentious.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Nowadays, that's all I think of as pretentious, yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: So pretentious, but but the word is cool and the meaning makes sense, right?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, and on this bottle it works because it's got the green, it's got like that what do you call it?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's not chevron, but what is that?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's some sort of pattern.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, the pattern, yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Is that the fishbone or the I don't know what you call it?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's cool, yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's rippled, rippled, yeah.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, it's a rippled effect, yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and we like our gins.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Me and Nick really like gins.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I do too, yeah.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm with you on the gin.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you guys haven't had this bottle before.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I had this is like my third bottle of this.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I've had a lot of gins.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: I've never had anything, and I've had a lot of finished gins, but I've never had anything with rye.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: I might take it just a tip.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say we we might finish this up.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I might have to get a new bottle for the picture.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, nuts.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh boy.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh boy, and then in this this tobacco, I think it's gonna pair just fine with the gin.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking, uh, you know, add a little, because gin for as great as it is, it is kind of it's a lighter.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's subtle.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's light.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, I thought maybe something with a little bit more oomph would be a good kind of like that's why gin does so well on a cocktail, right?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is uh it it it flavor wide to, but it doesn't take over anything.
• 6:18
  unknown: Right, right, right.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas if you're talking about uh whiskey cocktails, the whiskey is important, it's a it's a key factor.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas the gin cocktail, the the additives is kind of where it shines and this this plays well with others.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Gin is one you don't shake because you don't want to bruise it.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: So what I just thought of finishing in a barrel.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Are they worried about bruising the gin if they move the barrel around?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so, because you can still stir gin.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like you know, you're not really attacking it in the barrel.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if you think about what happens on what happens on the inside of a cocktail shaker, that is violent, right?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, think about being in one of those things.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're throwing it's it's like a metal cylinder, you're throwing ice in there, and then you're throwing a spear in there, and you are for like if you ever seen some people shake those things, like I almost want to be like, take it easy, just a little bit.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, people really shake the crud out of those things.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they really dig deep, and they're like all their anger goes into that shaker.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, anytime that they have they're like, Okay, childhood trauma is what they dig for.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen some people shake, I'm like, that doesn't even look like it.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: I would like would pull my shoulder doing it that hard, guy.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, but and even the way they slam the lid on and slam it off, you know, it's like it's not a gentle process, it's not no that's bruising it, you know.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Bruising a lot of things, bruising a lot of things, yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So for gin, you know, since we're we're a whiskey podcast, so I wanted to go a little bit of detail on what gin is so that we can figure out how they relate.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so gin is like I said, that's your early, early spirit.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: The it started as Genevere, which is disgusting way back when.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Genevere is is the first version of gin.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not Genevieve, not Genevieve, or Gwinevere.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not not or Gwinevere, Genevere.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Ginevere.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and that was made with malt wine, not mold wine, malt wine.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like mad dog 2020, like mad dog 2020.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not great.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: There are a few, there's a book, there are there's a few companies that still make it, like you can buy it, but it's not recommended.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty distinct flavor to it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Echo Echo Spirits here in Columbus.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you said that twice.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Echo, echo, echo, echo, echo, echo.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: He does that every time he says that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you've never have you never noticed that.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: You always say it twice.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: You echo yourself.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Huh.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: So Echo makes or used to make this I think they still do.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: It is potent.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Jennifer.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Jenovere.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So Jennifer based on the malt wine.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and even back in the day, Jennifer the malt wine distilled was not very good.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't like it, which is why they started adding juniper to it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so the juniper was her flavor.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was your that was what you were doing to cover up everything else.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: So like juniper, juniper does have juniper in it, but that's that's why they added the juniper to it.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Juniper is that flavor in gin that gives it that Christmas tree feel, the the pine salt smell and all that.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the juniper.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So way back when that was the original.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then they switched it and they started using just natural grain spirit and adding juniper to it, which is why gin is flavored vodka.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: It is.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it really is.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's a stance.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I wanna I don't know if I want to agree with it.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, but that's what it is.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's it's vodka that's been flavored, but naturally and done well.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically like a liquor tea.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when we get to London Dry, which is what this is, that's when we start getting into some really cool vapor infusions and stuff because they vapor infuse these flavors into this.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they do way cooler stuff with gin than they do with any sort of but you're right, it all comes from a neutral grain.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: It all comes from a neutral grain spirit.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can't get on too high of a horse when you're talking about gin, I guess.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, the next was old Tom.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Old Tom Gin came next, and that was your first natural grain spirit.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've had we've had old Tom.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I have.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's still around, like it's still around.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can get it.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: We had a bottle of it one time.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, me and you did.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's very cheap looking nowadays, I think.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's usually a bottom shelf deal.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but a bottom shelf.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's uh there's various stories on how it gets his name.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's like a person named Tom and all that.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the coolest one I heard, and it's almost for sure not true, but it's a but it's just really fun, is there was uh there was some gin laws that came into effect with taxes and all of that, and and so they didn't wanna you didn't want to buy it legally because you'd have to pay all these taxes and stuff.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they put up these little Tom Cat statues with uh with a with a hose on it, and you'd you'd pay your quarter or whatever into the statue, and then a little slug will come out and you'd get your get your little gin fixed.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you it this might not be a false story.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that's where Tom and Jerry, like Tom from Tom and Jerry comes up?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: So Neely Family Distillery, they they got their start doing moonshine, right?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they did something similar, but they would shove it in stumps, and so they'd have one stump to put money in and another stump to go walk and grab your yeah, your your bottle or whatever your bottle from, but they'd stash it in there.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea of like stashing that in a Tomcat, like that idea of a Tomcat statue, yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: I would have put the whole story like a like a cookie jar.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so both of those happen, and then you get to London Dry Gin, and that's where we really are now.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know, if you're if you're buying any of the name brand gins, all of your your Bombay Sapphire, your Tangera, your beef eaters, those are all London Dries.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But what London Dry did different is one, they that's that's the start of the column still.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Column still showed up, which is how they were able to get the distillation so strong.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can get it get it up in in proof that you want, because these are an age spirit, so you have to get to get it all the way up.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they'd bring it all the way up to like 95% or whatever, so like straight straight ethanol, and then they'd switch it to a pot still, but the pot still has like an onion top where they'd put the gin bag, and it was this bag full of all of the the botanicals and stuff.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So then the vapor comes up through the pot still, hits that, and then it's collected at the end.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's your vapor infusion of all these flavors, and then after that they cut it and sell it.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, for it to be, does it have to be made in London?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: It does not.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Location no longer matters.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the style.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, that's the style.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's who came up with it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: What where does the dry?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: I've always wondered where does the dry aspect come from?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's the thing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why they initially called it London dry gin, but I do know that early on when somebody said they wanted a dry martini, they didn't mean they wanted no vermouth in it, they meant they wanted a London dry gin in their martini.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then since then it's become, well, that is the gin, that's the only gin you're gonna get anyway.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's now it's a distinction on how much vermouth to put in it, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because martini should be made with gin.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, vodka martini is something that came out way later and Bond made popular, but a true martini is made with gin.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I think you were on the podcast episode with Ryan when we talked about this.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do you guys remember talking about prohibition in England with Ryan?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: So this is this is probably like a year, two years ago now that we talked about.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: But gin was the Kickstarter for their prohibition over there, like there was an issue with people just down over doing it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Which kind of cracks me up because I think of London dry gin and the dry aspect.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think of like a dry county.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, do they call it dry gin as like it's it's not alcoholic, it's just alcohol free gin.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we can get away with it because it's dry gin, you know, don't worry about it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's just what they had over there.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's just at that time, it w whatever alcohol was your your your go-to is what they attacked, but which is fascinating to me.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: That it starts out that way over there.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we talk about old school, old person, you know, uh Christmas past, I guess you could say.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: So starting over there, Jin caused their prohibition.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's when did Jin start coming over to America?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't feel like it was a very popular American made thing.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think it always was a thing over here.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't over here all the time.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't make it here until later, I think.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, Irish people like were even making it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think if you watch even like the Peaky Blinders, and they were like Romanian or whatever, but they were from England, and uh I think they were in somewhere in England, but they were making it and then shipping it to America or something like that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: They had like that, they were selling it to America.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: So Americans were getting ship shipments of this stuff from Ireland and England and different parts of Europe or whatever.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if we were making it in America, but we were drinking it in America, and the fact that we pro we probably weren't making it, which is why like at some point we quit drinking it, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like scotch is one thing, you know, but like I think there was a time where we just kind of drank what we could get, and that's when all that kind of fancy stuff went out the window.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: But was gin ever popular in like the 70s?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like gin and vodka, I think like clear spirits, clear spirits were popular, but like that's why like a gin martini was the thing, and it wasn't a vodka martini.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Vodka really didn't gain popularity until a little bit later.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Mainly when we started adding flavors.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say like the 80s, probably vodka started kind of coming up, and then adding it to like what was it, Zima and stuff like that.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Was there vodka in that, or I don't know, but started acting adding it to like little wine cooler type type little yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember Zima?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, what is Zima?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: You remember Zima?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: They used to have it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody listening is gonna be like, oh yeah, Zima.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't even think they I don't know if they make it anymore.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was a it was a clear bottle with a clear liquid in it.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was like smearing off ice without all the flavoring, if you can imagine.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: So just a hard seltzer?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was like a hard seltzer, yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like a malt.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's basically what it was.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was the original, like I think it was malt, but it was the original, like not, yeah, because the I think there's marginal claw.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's not too sweet, but it's like it's sweet, but not too sweet.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was, it was white, unflavored white claw.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: It had its own flavor to it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely had some, like like underage, you know what I mean?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I don't even know when they quit making that stuff.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: But Zima, yeah, there's commercials and stuff for it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: It was a big deal, like 80s, 90s, probably early 2000s is probably when it died out, something like that.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I was probably like way underage.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds like it might have been.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds like it could have been.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember seeing those things all the time, you know.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was I think that was a new um I don't know if it was neutral grained or if it was vodka based, or I don't know, but it was definitely like kind of that kind of that idea, you know.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: When people started moving to that kind of way of doing things in the 80s and 90s, I guess, is probably when it got a little bit more popular.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Although I think I feel like gin has had did have a little bit of resurgence when all these craft distilleries started showing up.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because they could make it quick, they needed to make something quick.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of American gins have since showed up.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: We also had Plymouth gin that showed up during uh like after London Dry, and that's basically the same thing as London Dry, but it's made just with a pot still, and there's a lot more roots in the like gin infusion, so there's less citrus, so it's a little bit more earthy, more earthy, less citrusy, because you can have I mean, all the the pine, there's pine like, and then there's more floral, botanical, and or even the gunpowder tea type stuff.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, before you even jump to like American gin, you've got stuff in Europe, like over there, like Ireland has their gunpowder gin.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's Austrian gin.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's another and I didn't never heard of this one before, but I was doing my research, I found pink gin.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And pink gin was used by the navy, and so it's just regular gin, but it's mixed with Angostora bitters.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason for that is it helped fight seasickness and and some scurvy and stuff.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you get digestive, you know.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, Navy, like that was a big thing in the Navy gin.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, navy strength gin.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like pirates, you think rum, but navy you think gin.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's what they kind of do you is that kind of your thought process?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think gin for navy.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: All the books that I've read and stuff, like with sailors, and I don't mean pirate sailors, but like sailors and and and even naval sailors and things like that.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh there's a lot of talk about gin bottles there and gin bottles there, less rum, like that's more pirate type stuff.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: But for whatever reason, people on board ships would drink, at least in the stories, it was always gin this and gin that.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: But again, because it's an old world spirit, maybe you know old world spirit, but also has a lot of roots involved.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, like maybe that helps with like calming the stomach kind of thing.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's got a lot of like earthy botanical like plants involved with the steeping that might help calm some of the stomach.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: But coming back to this, what's interesting after talking about what what you were saying, Steve, with the um, you know, the different ways that gin has gone to, and the fact that these um small distilleries are making gin because it's quick and easy and whatever.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: An interesting way of doing it is what we're trying here.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're taking something that is quick to make, but then you're finishing it in a product we all like that takes a while, right?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Rye or bourbon or whatever it is.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: So when they started making these gins finished in these whiskey barrels, whoever came up with that idea, that is a really fantastic idea because it just kind of leeches on.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: Just enough flavor of the whiskey leaches onto this gin in a way that the botanicals leach onto it and it comes out like because I can really taste the the rye.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure, yeah.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And with this company with rabbit hole, they're using their rye, so it's their boxer grail.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Is it box of girl or box of grail?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Boxer grail.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, there's an extra R in there.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: It throws the end.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I see it, I just a quick glance, I'm like, oh, it's box of girl.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what's a box of girl?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, box of grail.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: That makes a bit more sense.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's their it's their rye, but they're importing the gin.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so they don't make their their own gin for that, which is interesting.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the opposite.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're they're they're reversing it a little bit.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're letting the pros do the gin and they're using their barrels, which is super fascinating to me.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: But do they make any of their own stuff to begin with, or do they source a lot?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think they source a lot of it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they make it or not now, but they definitely originally started as sorcers.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Which made sense to me when it when they first started to source everything, including their gin.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you're not gonna do anything, source it all immediately.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do it all, yeah, exactly.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, don't skip out and be like, oh, we'll make our own vodka in our gin, but the harder stuff we're gonna we're not gonna touch.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like we're not gonna do that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't do a ton of research into rabbit hole because I figured, you know, we'll get I think we'll do another bottle on these guys.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: But just as a real basic run on it, the owner, it started in 2012.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: The owner is from Tehran.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, he he came here when he was 14 years old.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Tehran, I think it's in Arizona.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm kidding.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: The look on Steve's face.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Tayron Aeroson.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Tearon.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: We got that festival down there.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: The Marmadillas.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere in the Middle East.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Middle East, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, he came over here when he was 14 in like 2003, I think.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: He was 14 at the time, got married to somebody from Kentucky, and that's how he ended up in the in the whiskey world.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: He just really fell in love with bourbon and Kentucky and moved there and then started Rabbit Hole.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: He had uh business as a psychoanalyst and a psychiatrist for like 20 years.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: And an academic.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: He tried to fix people, couldn't do it, and was like just I guess I guess it's the answer.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: This this might help.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: This might fix your brain just drink.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I always uh not again, not getting too into rabbit hole.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, wait.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Don't go down the rabbit hole, rabbit hole.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: But well, that's what I was about to say.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds like he went down the rabbit hole.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Which is a good thing because every time I see rabbit hole, I'm such a Lewis Carroll fan that uh, you know, Alice in Wonderland and stuff like that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: When I see it, I'm like, gosh, that's so cool.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably not that rabbit hole.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like it's probably just some stupid like thing, you know.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, but it would be so cool if it was like, yeah, no, this is based kind of the on off the idea of like Alice going down the rabbit hole, kind of a it really sounds like it could be.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if he it's a little bit, I mean it's like a psychotic kind of like but that's dude, that's that book, right?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people watch the cartoon or whatever, but if you've ever read the book, like I have uh many times, it's actually, and what's cool about it is like people do like I think even normal people have some, like we're all crazy a little bit, you know what I mean?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, and you can go crazy, you know.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: But that's kind of what that book is trying to show.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like not mental illness per se, but like it is definitely people in different stages of life or or different mental states at any given time, and and uh we're all a little, and I think it even says it in there.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think if I remember right, we're all a little mad, you know what I mean?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, but we totally are.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: The Mad Hatter says that, yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like and and Alice is not exempt in that book.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: She's got her own freaking issues.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think she's worse off than the Mad Hatter, really, when you think about it.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it sounds like that he did kind of just fall down the rabbit hole of bourbon and then ended up in this, especially coming from the Middle East, exactly.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's random, and he's very uh big into like the architecture and did all that.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, the their their distillery is a pretty architectural wonder down there, also.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like it looks kind of cool.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: I've been told it's a it's a butte.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: It I've been told several times you gotta go visit because it's it's just beautiful to look at, yeah.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so we'll like I said we'll do a deeper dive into rabbit hole in the future as we go.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: But gin in general, in terms of a spirit of the past, it's something all three of us really like.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's still like prevalent to this day, which like a lot of things from the past, you know what I mean?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's it's it's stood up to the test of time.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: Still being we're smoking pipes, you know what I mean?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's another thing from the past that that has been holding on the way gin has.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's not super popular, but there's definitely people that are probably all all about gin.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like it's making a comeback with the American gin, exactly.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like the craft distilleries, as you're saying.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's at least solidifying its foothold, and I'm not going away.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the number of times that I'm doing like watershed tastings during the summer, we'll do we'll pull out their gin and and sample their gin.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the number of people that come up and be like, oh, I don't like gin.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to, I don't want to try that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's free.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Give it just a little bit, just just try it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just because I know what you're thinking.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking of London dry gin, which is a distinct flavor that some people don't like.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Watershed is not.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, watershed is a is a citrus forward gin.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's very little juniper in it, and a lot of American gins have kind of done that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or you have like Hendra Hendrix is a cucumber forward gin.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: I want to see a pickle one.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: A pickle gin?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds interesting, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: It does sound interesting.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: I've made a couple of, you know, like pickle bags, but I was gonna say make a pickle bag with gin.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty good.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've had gin pickles, yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's good too.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like pickles that were at Journal.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, is that where we did?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh god, those were good in soaked in the gin kind of watershed.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: So when I first tried watershed, I want to say it was like 2013, something like that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: It was like they were like new, pretty new, and they had like two or three products.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think they had their apple vodka, it was just vodka, but it's made with some apples.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: They had the three-peeled gin, and then they had their bourbon.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's like it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, this is before I really got into bourbon, but I was still drinking gin pretty regular to the point where I picked up the watershed three-peeled gin first.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Four peel, yep.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: Or four peel.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's right, four-peeled gin first.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember thinking, like, this is like the best gin in the world.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think I Googled it at the time it was listed like for the world, like one of the best gin.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, oh, it was right.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, even I think there was something in England that were like, we love this stuff, you know.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, this stuff is the crud, you know, but nobody talked about it except for the few things I found online.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I feel like, and I thought, like, this is gonna take off.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: And like you just mentioned, watershed's been here now for how long?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: And people still like don't really, and again, maybe it's they don't drink gin, I don't know.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: But as far as gins go, the four-peel gin is different, and it's so good.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you're into gins or even if you're dabbling into gin, and and at the price, you can even make it into a cocktail, no problem.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: But drinking it even straight or on ice, it's got a lot of different things going on.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: That at the time when I tried that, I had only ever tried like what you're talking about, like you know, dry gin, yeah, very basic, all like it's all the same kind of a thing.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Some are better than others.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: You can tell some are better than others, but flavor-wise, there's quality differences with the same flavors, yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then to open my eyes, the gin can be different flavors like that.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then now you see all the other stuff coming.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: I then now obviously they've done barrel finish and whatnot, like what we're having.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: But like you said, Nick, I just think it's it is an old spirit, but it's it has enough still going on in innovation-wise, that maybe it is a it is still evolving and changing, which is crazy for something that's been around for that long, right?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, has wine really been involving evolving and changing?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's been around forever, too, but it hasn't really.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: But something like gin that's been around for a long, long, long time, still can go through like fundamental changes.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's pretty interesting.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Which excites me for this bottle, right?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: You talk about that idea of it being an old world kind of thing.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's this is scotch and and and gin are your your old man's drink, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: People always thought it's the old man's drink, and you know, have a pipe and drink scotch, right?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what you have with gin.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you have pipe with gin, I don't know, a tobacco of some kind.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or this is going really well.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is working, English is working great.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: You think of that, and you're like, oh, this is the old person's drink.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Then you also think about what this this specific bottle for me is finished in is rye barrels, which is a lost.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: I it's coming back, but I feel like it's a lost spirit.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's one of the yeah, it's one of those like people are like starting to get back into it.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: The one like the wandering spirit.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's the one that like people are iffy about because it's a weird flavor, it's too spicy, or it's this like Uncle Ted.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, people are iffy about Uncle Ted, and we only see him every now and then, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: But you combine those two together, and the flavor that you get out of this is like what the meant to be like meant to be together, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, what's crazy is if you were to do this with vodka, it would taste like complete garbage.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just sit and sip vodka.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do, but I'm people I'm weird, okay.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Without without like you know, it's not water, which feels like it's water, but it's not water.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, it's not water.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you you're drinking straight vodka?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you doing that?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: I because I like it.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, leave me alone.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: I I tried to drink straight vodka one time and it was a blueberry flavored, I think it was three olives, maybe, or smug off.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, I can't do just straight vodka.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: I could do like something like a vodka, a flavored vodka on ice.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, see, that's before we do that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like flavored vodka, period.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's gotta be just regular, just vodka and room temperature or on ice is fine.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: It would have to be cold for me.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Weird, I know.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: Room temperature.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know how I like my martinis.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: How do you like your martinis?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: What is your martinis?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think we've said this before, but Nick, you want to tell them what how I like it?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's just straight vodka, right?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you just look at the vermouth.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just look at it.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Just look at it.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe some olives.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you're feeling risky, maybe some olives.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'll and I'll shake it up in with some ice, but I'll also just I've also just put poured like because I'm lazy too.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, usually I So you like Martini.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's what I do, yeah.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: Chill, chill, yes, maybe chills.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like my first one might be like shaking, and then like the second one, I'm by the like at the end of the day.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: At some point where you're just lazy.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: You're just pouring it into the fancy glass, and I'm drinking it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's when Nick was like, What do you do?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: What are you drinking?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, leave me alone.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: Just vodka.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Just leave me alone.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm having a good time.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cocktail because it's in a pretty glass.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's in a glass, it's a cocktail.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you like your gin martinis?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, gin?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I do like a little vermouth with my gin.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you why, though.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's because not because I like gin straight, obviously, the for the flavor.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're talking about a martini with gin, I think you're hitting on that old world idea.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, when I have a gin martini, the way it should be, it's like an old world drink.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: And what else is very vermouth is very old world.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I love vermouth.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there was a time that people were drinking vermouth straight, either as an aperitif or um, you know, just as a cocktail on its own or what they wouldn't like really mix it with anything, maybe or maybe a squeeze of lime or something, but or lemon.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: But vermouth in itself is old world.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: So when you mix the two together, I just feel like I'm it's really sophisticated.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like that is a so to me, that's a very sophisticated drink, especially in the glass it comes in.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: And if you do a twist of, you know, lime or or or lemon or whatever, uh, or an olive, even to me, an olive kind of is quality.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like an old another old world thing that, you know, at one point was probably kind of a luxury because it's imported and whatnot else.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the idea of mixing vermouth and gin together is cool.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, so as far as the flavor goes, it tastes good too.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I I'm just fine drinking vermouth on its own or gin on its own.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I do like the mixing of the two, and it does taste good.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I've definitely had as far as a 50-50.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: I used to have a 50-50.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Remember that?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: 50-50 martini.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: You ever heard that?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard of it, but I've never had one.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's half vermouth, half for gin.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like every time like I have to explain it to a bartender, they're like, Oh duh, you know what I mean?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've had that of like, well, 50-50, what are you talking about?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, just half, I want half vermouth and half gin.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, we can do that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I do, if we've never tried it, it's good.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've ever tried vermouth by itself.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've added like I've used vermouth in a in a Manhattan or in a martini, and I've had them both, and I've liked them both, but I don't think I've ever just poured a little bit of vermouth and tried it by itself.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll I should do that because I should see what that flavor is by itself.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: Just like we did with the uh the port, right?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that that way you know, and then and then you have the sweet vermouth, which is very different from the dry, the the dry vermouth.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have some sweet vermouth at home because I've been making making uh manhattan.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll have to try that.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: You you would enjoy it.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think you would like it.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Again, it's a more of an aperitif if you're gonna drink it straight.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, you should definitely try some of it, like on its own.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's always good to pull the flavor.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Then put them together and try it again and be like, oh, okay, so I always see how it fits in there, you know.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Or then when it doesn't fit in there when it mixes so much that it makes different flavors, that's when it gets exciting, right?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing with pipes or bourbon or whatever.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about the vapor infusion of of gin and how that's done with just like a essentially a tea bag uh floating there and it's being hit by the vapor and sucked in or whatever else.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then if you go back to early days, so it doesn't steep in the liquid.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's steeped in the vapor.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's coming, it's being it's boiling, coming up, it's mixing with the vapor in the air, and then goes through the the coils and turns back to liquid.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, it becomes too concentrated.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, that I just that is insane to me.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like the flavor, the off of that, like yeah, yeah, that doesn't that doesn't like I it's like tea, like I should steep it.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's definitely like more than just steeping it, I feel like, because it's really kind of changing like the molecules and everything, like it's really kind of going into its DNA in like vapor form, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Then becoming liquid again.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and as I'm thinking about this, I could see where you could become famous early on in these in these gin days by having a still that's the right size, because if it's too big, then maybe your flavors would be weak because there wouldn't be enough, it wouldn't be enough like touching it or whatever.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So like your your the still size probably matters quite a bit.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the heat.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So like if you're using wood burning or versus coal or whatever else, the the temperature change could change that how quickly the vapor moves through to see how much this stuff is gonna touch it.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of variables.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you could become known as a really good gin maker as as uh being being able to do it properly early on.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas with something like a vodka or a or really even whiskey early on, you know, it's it's the same still.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't that kind of process with it that you're making something edible and that's good enough.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna kill me, it's not gonna make me blind.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So pass, you get it.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas something like this, that flavor profile could change quite a bit, and even whatever it is you put in your teabag, in your gin bag, because that's not like official either.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's just there has to be some gin juniper in it, but other than that, that's it.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's lots so you could have your own gin and it would be very unique to you because of that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: We've had some pretty unique gins.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: We have had a lot, we've had we've had a lot of different games.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it to be called London Dry Gin, it still has to use the the vapor infusion.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: So all those people that are doing it, they're they're using that.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because there we've definitely had some gins where they dunk stuff in there and let it steep, but it feels like it, yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: But that's at even after probably this vapor process, you know.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've had one that's no longer in production.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of Avery's Trail.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: That one was not in production or just not in Ohio.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, they're they're gone.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, as a company they're done.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that stuff was so good and underrated.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, clearly it didn't do well enough.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's unfortunate.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think it tried to take off before craft distilleries really started doing gin, and people kind of caught on of like, oh, this is this is not London dry gin.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: That was another one that was starting early on with the finishing of the uh finished in in whiskey barrels or whatever it was.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: They had some non, but they had well at least one that was finished, and it was darker than the other ones.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that Average Trail was pretty good.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: I then uh I mean, there's so many.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: I like the botanist.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the botanist is a good one.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there's out of Skyland, that's uh that's a yeah, yeah.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what's great with gin, just talking about gin.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I and again, we're not we don't have ice if anybody's listening, because we wanted to try this without, but it is good with ice, it's refreshing.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, but a little gin on ice, straight with if you've ever done this, if you haven't, you gotta try it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: But the uh salt and vinegar chips, you if you like those with with gin on ice, that is a treat.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: You ever done that?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I can I could see like the the tangent.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: The the gin is so refreshing, such a refreshing drink.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I feel like you almost feel like you're hydrating as you're drinking, right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: And when you eat those chips, I love those, they're such a distinct flavor.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: But for one thing, you need something to drink with them, and then another thing, you get thirsty as it's all get out.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: So it really it's a great pairing.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: I've done this before many times.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: Almost every time we have salt and vinegar chips, I bust out the gin.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody listen to the try?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Amy, my wife, is a big fan of both of those things.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: She's a gin drinker more than anything else, not a big fan of the whiskeys and stuff, but she likes her gins and she likes the salt and vinegar chips.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'll have to try that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: She's gonna be like, This is it, this is the trick.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Holy cow! It's a great, it's a great thing to eat with that with gin.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh just pairs so well.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, how does this pair with your pipes?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's very good.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we were right in going with an English blend because in English, that litekee and stuff, it does have a little bit of a punch to it.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a stronger tobacco, I think.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's not super strong, more kind of middle of the road to too strong, but that makes up for kind of the subtlety of gin.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I think it works well.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: Which actually makes sense too, because if you think about even the name English, the reason why they're called that is because this is the style of tobacco that they smoked so often in uh Europe way back in the day, like in England and stuff.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: English, it's English style tobacco.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's why they call it an English blend, you know what I mean?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: So again, this is an old world type of smoke mixed with this gin, which is an old world spirit.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: So this does pair really well in that aspect, but flavor-wise, I think the gin needs this, you know what I mean?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: It it could be fine without it, but I actually don't think a light tobacco would be great with gin.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have a hard time imagining tobacco going well with gin.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know why.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe because uh in the back of my mind, I think of it as the vodka that has a little bit of fluffed upness to it kind of thing, which is that's an understatement.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: That that's really like killing what gin really is.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: But also, I mean tobacco goes great with vodka too.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, talk about blank canvas, right?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Talk about an absolute something absolutely dying for flavor.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably one of the best things to to drink when you smoke because you can really pull out the flavors of the tobacco.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: To me, I think of it more uh if you reverse go farther backwards, yeah.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So to previous gin and previous tobacco, they're both of them are flowers, so it's just they they go together, they're in fields, they're you know, you're going together.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're going all at their genetic makeup right there, and so because I mean gin is it's kind of like a tea, and tobacco is I mean, this is a combination of the tobacco and kind of a salad.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is like sacrilegious, but I've said it for a long time.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: I like a pipe with tea more than I like a pipe with coffee.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think tea and smoking go way better than that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: How is it sacrilege?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because I just think when people think cigars or or pipes, they think like coffee or whatever.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: I could say cigars, but cigars go with coffee and pipes go with tea.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think like pipes, I think pipes, I think England and I think tea, like I love tea with my pipes.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: You like some mud water with your pipes?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Especially in the morning, yes.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's the other thing.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm more of a tea guy in the morning and a coffee guy at night.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's how we grew up.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: But most people are the other way around.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why that is.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I like tea in the mornings more than I do coffee.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Evenings, I like coffee.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, what was the the ghost of Christmas past?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like I vaguely remember which each one was.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Marley.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and he went he went back and talked about his first wife.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not in the cartoon, in the the like TV, like the movie, right?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Which which movie?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's like 70 of them.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is that ever talked about in the any of the movies?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is most I think I think it's in most of them.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: They go backwards and they go back to when he was a kid and he was made fun of in school and everything, and then he finds a girl.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I never remember the girl part, but he leaves her because he he wants to make money, and he spent all of his time working, and so she leaves him because of that.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that was your that was the Christmas past was was the childhood trauma.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Was he the cripple kid?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Crippled kid is is actually future, maybe is where he gets involved because that's that's the workers' kid.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's what it is.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Bob Cratchit's kid.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: Bob Cratchit's a kid, uh Little Timmy or Timmy or Jimmy or whatever it was.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's funny you said Cratchit the whole time.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking again, always sunny in Philadelphia.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking Cricket.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Cricket, Jimmy Cricket.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Cratchit.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, like cricket, that's not Cratch.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't go and see Cratchit until that's present and future because he sees what will happen with the the lad.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: But if I'm trying to remember, uh Bob Marley shows up first, and then he says, You're gonna have three spirits.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's your fourth spirit, is Bob Marley.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Or not is it not Bob Marley?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is Marley.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is Marley, but I think it's Marley might be his first name.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not Bob.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: It might be just Mar old Marley or something.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Something Marley, Jacob Marley, Jacob Jacob.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: Jacob Marley and Evan Easier Scrooge.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's all coming back to me now.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, he sees him on the door, he goes inside, he says, You're you're you could be digestion or whatever.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: But after that, he says, You're gonna be visited by three ghosts, and he's like, Bah hum bug.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: But then past comes and shows him it's basically the Goes to memory.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's his childhood, the ex the girlfriend.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: Things that went right, things went wrong, things that led him on where the path he is now and the path he's gonna take later on.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Then present and then uh future, then death, and everything else shows up and all sorts of things.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: What's interesting is when present starts to leave for for future to come, that's when it gets weird.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because he's got if you read the book, present's got this big rope.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: He looks like Santa Claus, he's huge and he gets very jovial.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: But there's these two kids that are under his robe the whole time.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one's hunger and one is jealousy.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, it was something weird.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: But these two, like there's a boy and a girl, and they become very like smeagal, like like golem, like like you know, like like like very like creature like type.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that they try to reach out at some point or it gets very creepy.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: If you read the book, it gets very creepy.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a ghost story.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it is it's a Christmas ghost story, it really is.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's spooky.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about most early Christmas stuff was ghostly, like it was very scary.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: We've Disney fied Christmas.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be much scarier than it was than it is now.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about somebody who literally didn't give a crud, and then in the span of a night, like basically gets everything into salvation, yeah, scaled into everything.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've you know what I've never seen is that movie Scrooged.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Bill Murray where he he he's like Scrooge after like the day after that when he realizes like, oh crud, I didn't have to be like that nice.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Or I think that's what it's about.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's like poor, he gives everything away and he's like, Oh man, I overdid it, or something like that.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that's what it's about.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: I've never seen it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't either.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to watch it, but I've got to be a lot of it.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: Bill Murray, I mean it's a comedy, you know.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: This particular gin, we haven't really talked about the flavors on this, but it is a London dry, it has a lot of juniper in it.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's fairly, fairly Christmas tree-like, has that juniper flavor.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Piney.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the rye does come through on it.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: It adds some sweetness to it, it kind of mellows it out a little bit.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it adds sweetness to it, yeah, which is really weird.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: That the rye sitting in that rye barrel adds it opens up the weird fruity side to juniper that I never thought juniper could have a fruity side, but it's almost like a berry.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: It is more berry-like to me, also.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also got this like deep flavor, yeah, like deep spice to it.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe that there's that much wood coming out of it.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of wood, wood, and it's adding depth to it, and that it plays so well together, or base, I shouldn't say.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the weird part.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it plays so well together, and you think like, okay, I'm basically, and this is really dumbing it down.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm putting water in a barrel and letting it sit.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: That water should taste really nasty.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: But this somehow, everything that's involved with the gin prior.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, with the juniper, what like in my head, if I'm picturing juniper, if I'm drinking a Bombay sapphire and I'm picturing in my head what does juniper look like, it looks more like uh like like a pine tree branch.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's not really a flower or a berry on it, it's it's more of a branch, a root, like that kind of that's kind of the feel I get out of it.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: It has some small berries on it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Also, yeah, juniper, it's a berry on it.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: In real life, there are berries on it, but in this, it almost it it like if I'm image if I'm trying to think about what a juniper might look like in this, I'm thinking of a hollybush.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of like a like a very red berry, yeah.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: Smaller though, but yeah, yeah.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think in real life they probably look more like elderberry, they probably look like something like that.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the leaves are longer and whatnot.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: I've had um quite a bit of juniper just on its own, uh, flavoring-wise.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: So when I used to get tobacco from Sweden specifically, you know, like my pouches, the snufs.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: So the way that they do that over there, it's you know, it's steam cured tobacco put in a pouch.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: But the they flavor it with real flavors, they don't do any artificial flavors, and they'll put like some salt and flavor, like real flavor.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a time that I was getting a bunch of juniper flavor.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't remember what the word is over there in Sweden for juniper, but I looked up what it is, and they'll do like cloud berry and they do flavors that we don't do.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: But one of the ones that they did was juniper.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm gonna try that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: And uh you stick that in your upper lip, you know what I mean, for a long time.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: You really get the sense of what juniper tastes like, and it is very much like gin, like pine, but clean, very clean, very refreshing.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not a flavor Americans use, you know what I mean?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: But they do in Europe, not just like Britain or whatever, like even in Sweden and what like it's something I'm surprised we don't use more of.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I feel like even just the smell of those pouches, or the smell of gin, but that's you know, alcohol, but the smell of those pouches at least.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why people don't even put like hang up juniper leaves in their house because it's very refreshing smelling, it's a good natural smell, you know.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: For gin, it's something interesting.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've always like I drink it in the summertime more than any other time, but the imagery in my head of gin is very Christmassy.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: It is it's it's very Sweden-esque.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot, it's it's very like mistletoe.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like it should be something that'd be very good with snow, yeah, and sleighs and and uh yeah.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: So growing up, did you guys cut down your own Christmas tree?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: We did not.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have in the okay, so you had like a real Christmas tree.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know what you're you're getting at.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I I was thinking about this as you were like describing Chris was trying to describe like juniper.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if sometimes I wonder if I like gin because I grew up we always cut down our own Christmas tree every year, and we had it in the house up until New Year's, and then we took it out and we burned it.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was one of those things, and it was always you had that like pine smell, but then you also had this like pine sappy smell along with it, where it was yeah, with the wood, a little bit of sap, sticky.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I wonder if that's why I enjoy gin so much is that memory of like waking up in the morning every morning to that smell around Christmas time.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because it definitely does have a full house smell, like you can tell that you have a real Christmas tree in your house versus a fake one.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: And people have tried to try to manipulate that, they try to have fake ones, then then put like the fli the sprays or whatever.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work, it's not the same.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: I've always thought about gin as a spring and summer drink, but the idea of drinking it around Christmas time is interesting to me.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we should normalize gin at Christmas time.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: This is something we this is a soapbox we should get on.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: But you talk about putting ice on gin.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: I uh before we even started recording, I was like, anyone getting ice?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I prefer ice with gin.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's great.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: But but that's a spring summer.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if you wouldn't want straight, yeah, just buy neat is great for the winter Christmas time because you get different flavors.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: You can't go outside and grab a handful of snow and throw it in there.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta make sure it's clean snow, though.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the problem is the problem is all snow is not clean anymore because of the because of what's in the air.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: We used to make snow ice cream and eat it and everything else, but now it's like the air's so polluted that you really can't do that.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: You could.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: You just shouldn't.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: Just not often.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea of that is cool, you know.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Christmas past has been has been finished.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's in the past now.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's now in the past.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: The spirit of the past.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: It no longer is it was.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we'll see you for Christmas present in the future.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the podcast.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you want more great content and other perks, be sure to support the show by clicking the link in the show notes.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: We can be reached on our website, whiskeychaster's comment.com, with any ideas for the show.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again.