Latest / Beyond Vibe Coding / #S2.04 The Rise of the Solopreneur? - Uwe Franke
Transcript
- Sebastian: Welcome to another episode of our new season of Beyond Vibecoding partnering with Impala Search. André Neubauer: the go-to tech and executive search agency in Germany. Sebastian: In this podcast, we explore the transformational change in software engineering and knowledge work in general. I'm Sebastian Heidemeyer zu Erpen, CTO at North.io. André Neubauer: And I'm Andre CTPO at Trusted Jobs. Great to have you back. This time, we actually talk to Solopreneur, who ran a bigger digital company in the past, but is now concentrating on utilizing AI as a Solopreneur. Sebastian: Yes, he shares interesting insights into his ways of working and how it feels to be the only human in a multi-agent company. Enjoy the episode. Alright, now for the recap. What stuck with us? André Neubauer: Well, yeah, from my point of view, again, right. Three things. First thing for me is, was interesting to hear about his workflow. And I think it's mainly not a hundred percent related to solopreneurship, but the way he's working to really accomplish a lot. think that was interesting to hear because at the end, I think we all know this, but it's about compacting things, right? and yes, you can compact a lot of things in with short cycles, but then I think you get productive, maybe 100, 150 % on top. But if you really want to leverage AI, I think you need to go for long loops. And that was actually for me a reminder. And I think he is mastering that quite well. Sebastian: at least that's what it sounds like, right? And ⁓ it reminds of how ⁓ Boris and others described their ways of working where there's an extensive planning ⁓ cycle, would say, or ⁓ session the beginning, right? And then the agent has a lot of contextual information to then go ahead and implement the the feature, whatever. Yeah. makes a lot of sense. André Neubauer: I can also confirm that from my side whenever I'm doing Agenda Engineering, I spent the majority of the time on the first phase. But the second topic is actually in the same area. So what I also notice and what Uwe confirmed is ⁓ exhaustive ⁓ is. after three, four hours, he needs a break for one or two hours, I think ⁓ is maybe also something we can explore in the future with another guest. Sebastian: Yeah, yeah. And it really reminded me of Steve Yeagie's article that I didn't I don't know if we discussed it in the podcast, but shared it on LinkedIn once where he writes about the AI vampires sucking our blood or something. But he also writes that it's very exhaustive and that he also needs to take a break after three to four hours and even things about should our working days not ha only have three hours in general and André Neubauer: Yeah. Sebastian: The remainder of the time should be for socializing and for more yeah collaborative work instead of this really high intensity brain work, I would say. Right. ⁓ one thing I also took away from the podcast, or s ⁓ when he said that he's ⁓ the agent 16 hours a day, I felt ⁓ not sure if he actually nails the balance right now. ⁓ ⁓ can understand the the FOMO actually, right? Because now's the time if you wish. But I personally have dialed back a little bit my AI hours to yeah, just improve sleep and and relax a little bit more. Because in the beginning it was quite intense. Yeah, I that's something I took away. André Neubauer: Yeah, I absolutely agree. think especially the point on 60 hours, I maybe we will also see some kind of ⁓ same what happened to social media, right? This kind of addiction. then also like the way you handle that, I think it doesn't sound really healthy. It's like, I ⁓ can confirm from my side, it's like sometimes ⁓ it's fun, right? Like really pushing through things. ⁓ Overall, think in the long run, like always having in mind this like life with the marathon, not a sprint. Not sure if 60 hours is healthy. All goods are free, right? So my third point, maybe also to a recap on solopreneurship. I think ⁓ after the now with Uwe, I think overall, ⁓ Sebastian: Exactly. Yeah. André Neubauer: We got a glimpse what is possible, right? How you can leverage agents, like more or less, I think from a setup point of view, I think it's ⁓ possible, I think it's possible that a single person can run a large business. Honestly, I'm unsure if that is enough to run a billion dollar business. I think there is still... I would also say a long way to go, but I would say it's also not impossible. What's your take here? Sebastian: Yeah, I think that Uwe probably ha he has a background in tech, right? So he knows how to build software and he can build these solutions and he can teach others to to like engage this way and and learn and adopt these techniques, right? I am less sure about the validity or validity of his marketing workflows, right? Because yes, he might be impressed, but Probably I would also impress be impressed, while a person who really understands marketing might be less impressed by what his marketing team ⁓ creates, right? Though I haven't looked into I I cannot say maybe it is great what the the the the agent team that he's running is coming up with, right? It's just I've seen this over and over again that I personally created something, I was super impressed, and then I like showed it to someone who knew their shit in this in this ⁓ domain and yeah they were less much less impressed. André Neubauer: Yeah. But nevertheless, maybe also a reason to invite him maybe a half a year, a year to see how things are going, how far his marketing campaigns took him. Welcome to the show, Uwe. ⁓ For some of you who don't know, ⁓ we talked with Ingo Eichhorst in May ⁓ on this podcast where he presented a bit on the Eichhorst principle or where we talked about the Eichhorn principle. And after the show, he recommended to talk to you. So great to have you. And before we kick this off, you may want to introduce yourself. Sebastian: Fair fair point. Fair enough. Yeah. All right. Cool. Well then, see ya later. Or see you next time. Uwe Franke: Yeah, thanks first of all for having me here and thanks to Inko ⁓ for recommending me. ⁓ Although I know very good Müller, Ralf Müller, has been guest on this postcast as well. Actually, I will meet him in an hour about ⁓ after postcast. ⁓ yeah, ⁓ introduce ⁓ I started my software travel. in 1994 at Direktanlagebank, this time it was the first online program in We were building online program software at a time when most people didn't even have an email address or internet access, just to get a feeling for what crazy time it was. Then a few years later in 1997 I founded Byteworks, a software company which I run for 27 years focus on software for banks and trading platforms, so mostly ⁓ stock brokerage market. ⁓ I sold it ⁓ a years before to another software ⁓ and stepped of the company in late 2024. And after that, I decided to step into the business which I had the most passion in already before when I worked the last years in Byteworks and that was the AI topic. André Neubauer: Yeah, that's great. So you just mentioned it, like today will be a lot about solopreneurship ⁓ and therefore actually also fits perfectly to the first point we are always discussing, which is about the tool stack. can you give us a bit of understanding, like ⁓ kind of tools are you using? Like what is your workflow? How do you manage to be so productive? Uwe Franke: Okay, so if I would need to put it in a one-liner, I would say my team is a set of color-coded terminal sessions and I run it by talking, not typing. That's the ⁓ thing. My focus is conversational AI, voice AI on the one hand, ⁓ ⁓ set it up to myself having... ⁓ using the terminal with tmox setups. So have in each terminal ⁓ a of terminals again also to see the servers running and that stuff as well. The whole thing is set up on a m5 max ⁓ MacBook so can carry it around. I have ⁓ another ⁓ MacBook staying home. running some other agent stuff and to have a jump point there as well. And a little bit addicted to Entrophic because I like Claude mostly or the most, but I have subscriptions running on all the major providers also simply to compare the competitiveness ⁓ for the models ⁓ also some open source models on the machine Other than that, my setup is simply ⁓ hosted the applications ⁓ and the systems by a German internet provider and ⁓ having controlled Coolify and AI. ⁓ Also, the rollouts and everything. My code is on GitHub. I that's basically it André Neubauer: And how many projects you are currently working in parallel and how to not like, dunno, confused by all the changes, updates and ⁓ so So how you stay on top of all the stuff? Uwe Franke: Yeah. Yeah. most the time ⁓ I ⁓ running ⁓ six eight terminal session, simultaneously. ⁓ And ⁓ sometimes also three or four one project, but sometimes it's also, six ⁓ different scopes or projects, by own. as I said, divided mostly by colors because that's what I can mostly easily recognize and simply like ⁓ see what the AI is working on, what the agent is working on, ⁓ the agents... ⁓ why I have a 42 inch screen as my main screen ⁓ two thirds of this is covered for the ⁓ ⁓ One third is for the browser to test and to see the results ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ other screens ⁓ have some monitoring for other stuff and ⁓ MacBook is my main input and communication device on it. yeah, that's it how try to cover. it. André Neubauer: And how does it feel to be responsible for everything? Because yes, you're like, you're operating ⁓ a fleet of agents. Nevertheless, they need to get orchestrated, right? Someone needs to provide the context or is there some fully automated workflows where you actually don't need to care about stuff? I'm just wondering how does it feel to work on several different projects in parallel? Well, I think we are all used to that, right? But like now with the like a very compact workflow where you like, you always get bombarded with then answer and answer and answer answer. And like this happens like in parallel. I could imagine that's very exhaustive. Uwe Franke: Exactly, that's what it is. So I really have to take care that the limit for the productiveness ⁓ not subscription and not what the are capable of doing. limit is mostly me, I would say. I try to work on a spec level with the I think it's somewhere between that what is called level three and level four, I would say. So I sit down ⁓ try to specify the task or the feature what I want to do together the AI, very detailed. I have a ⁓ setup on my projects. So ⁓ with ⁓ feature bug. tasks, here are documents in GitHub where exactly is described what is all needed to be described before a feature can go into production. And one of my most important lines in the prompt is that it needs to be on a 95 % confidence before the AI is allowed to start working. that ticket template covers also tests. It also covers data sovereignty, and all that stuff. So sometimes I need to sit down between ⁓ one hour four hours only for the specification for one feature. But then when kick it off, then it ⁓ really runs a of agents. ⁓ And sometimes it ⁓ André Neubauer: Wow. Uwe Franke: five, six, seven hours or even a day until the AI comes back to me. And it's also described that it needs to do the end-to-end ⁓ all that stuff within as well. And I kicked off one task, then I can concentrate on next session and do the same and ⁓ so on. so I try to keep up the productivity, but to be true after... ⁓ free to max for hours, I need a break for one to two hours. Then I try to do sports and after that I come back with a fresh mind. And I already start off like six, 30 in the morning. to use time nobody's calling me or sending an email whatever. André Neubauer: Yeah, makes sense. a short follow up question. do you use any specific spectrum framework or is it developed on your own? Because there is, I don't know, getting shit done, open spec kit. No, open spec, spec kit. Uwe Franke: make a heavy use of the semantic anchors. ⁓ Greetings Ralph again. ⁓ Yeah. I'm ⁓ deeply ⁓ test-driven Yeah. So I that a test which goes wrong first before we start implementing ⁓ is, is the best proof André Neubauer: ⁓ okay. Uwe Franke: something is correctly specced and not yet implemented. And I work with some semantic anchors which I give to the AI ⁓ and a ⁓ which ⁓ tells AI that if we are not confident enough, then we are looking up for the state of the art solution. best practice and what top players in the market would do on our own. And from that free perspective, the AI needs to get back to me with free recommendations. And then I try to choose from that and going into that. I also have prepared framework. On myself, call it launchpad, which gives me the opportunity to directly kickstart an application. it has already in everything from P2 encryption, multi-tenant architecture, multi-language, multi-currency, multi-date format, all that things what I know from more than years of doing that stuff for other clients. ⁓ that gives me. ⁓ and good advantage and I have a main agent knows all my projects ⁓ another agent on every project which can also refer to the main agent and so I really try to use the AI as team members as I would do it with real humans. ⁓ André Neubauer: Interesting. Sebastian: Yeah, that there was actually one question I had before. If you have like for your different applications, if you're always using a similar stack, but that that ⁓ obviously you you you answered just now. ⁓ what you didn't answer w was when Andre asked how many ⁓ products you have ⁓ in production. So ballpark. Uwe Franke: Okay, so I'm currently working on two products or three products on my own. One is the open source product. It's the voice recognition for the Mac because I used one paid before and then one client of me told me, hey, please don't use it for my project because we are doing sensitive stuff. And then I started writing. it on my own and I also shared it on GitHub. And I'm doing one software as a service development as a trading journal for day traders and swing traders. That's come from my old area and I started it only for my own to be true because I was using an US based trading journal and I was ⁓ not happy with that because It did not support European progress and it did not support your account and all that stuff. And so I just started building my own and then I shared it to some friends and all that friends said, okay, that's cool. And that's cool. And at the moment I'm just waiting for the contracts, ⁓ which I also wrote with Claude to be reviewed by an official lawyer. And after that it will be. started out as an own SaaS service. the other one what I'm working on is Prickstar. That's a Lego pricking system where my son had the ID for. ⁓ I have ⁓ one major ⁓ who me for the work. That's the part where I spend the biggest time on. It's a German IT company, a bigger one, like with 35,000 employees, helping to enable them to jumpstart into AI-driven software development and handing them over more and more. ⁓ beside that, I have three to four smaller clients. ⁓ which partly are already ready developed and I maintain and implement new features or where I help to enable them to build the software with the help of AI on their own. Sebastian: So basically, I don't know, a handful of actual products, right? And then additional like capacities. Okay. Yeah, that's a lot. Thank you. André Neubauer: Absolutely. How does it feel like compared to the old days where you ran a software company? So now being in charge for everything, I could imagine that is like, this is nice, but also has some, I don't know, downsides. So ⁓ how does it feel compared to, to the past? Uwe Franke: Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ that's very interesting because I was reviewing myself only a few days before to get back the old feeling. ⁓ there as always, are pros and cons. The biggest pro for me is I was all the time, I was a technical guy. And when I founded the company, I wanted to build real cool software, especially for banks and brokerage. And after the years passing by, I recognized that I wasn't the tech guy anymore. I was more on sales, on regulations, ⁓ on... reading contracts and managing the team. Yeah. So that the company always has been like, too small for having an extra management line, but too big to handle it on your own. ⁓ the other thing is ⁓ I'm interested on money. Yes, sure. Everybody is interested on money, but I'm not interested on, ⁓ not counting success or fortune on ⁓ buck. ⁓ the freedom that I can do what I want to do. ⁓ I simply felt not happy anymore by only managing a company, but not ⁓ building on my own. I wanted to get back deeper into tech stuff. ⁓ And what I have now. For me, it is a... not counting success or fortune on ⁓ buck. ⁓ the freedom that I can do what I want to do. ⁓ I simply felt not happy anymore by only managing a company, but not ⁓ building on my own. I wanted to get back deeper into tech stuff. ⁓ And what I have now. For me, it is a... is the biggest feeling of freedom what I have now because is the biggest feeling of freedom what I have now because whatever I wanted to build in my life, it's now possible. whatever I wanted to build in my life, it's now possible. And I really, ⁓ when my son came up with that idea on can we build free described ⁓ 3D models ⁓ of Lego with the plans how need to it together from a picture or photograph or from a given set what I have. And I had, I have personally, have no ID, I have no intelligence in that how a Lego model is built and so on. we, I simply started discussing with the AI and I saw that it's a complete different domain, but I could build it because I could imagine it. And I think that's the, that's also what I tell everybody who wants to get in touch with AI. say, don't ask. Can I do it? Ask the AI, please do it. And the AI will tell you what it can do and what it cannot do. And you will be surprised that almost everything that they in software is possible. Even if you cannot believe it right now, it's possible. You can do it. ⁓ that's the biggest thing of freedom. To the downside, it's very easy. I need... to manage my time because the next feature is only 10 minutes away. And that's something what I really feel that I get sucked into it like it has been when I was a kid and I was doing text adventures. You look on the watch and say, ah, the next level I can check onto it. And the next time when you look on your watch, it's 4 a.m. André Neubauer: Hmm. Uwe Franke: And you are still completely driven into it and you cannot get away from the machine. That's a very, very big thing. My son was really coming to me and say, yeah, dad, you sold the company. And one of the reasons was you want to have more time for sports, family, more free time and so on. And now you're sitting in front of the computer like 16 hours a day and What the hell are you doing there? Why? And I say, and then I tell him, I have so much fun. have, I really have the biggest fun in my life because I'm free to do everything. I'm not an CI CD specialist to deploy things, but I can do it. can manage it. can manage with the AI to set up things like Coolify to deploy all the stuff automatically to have the monitoring. and all that stuff where I needed tons of people before which told me, it will take a week. And now I see it can take two hours to solve it. That's the big difference. And the other very big downside is, beside managing time, is talking to humans. That's what I'm really ⁓ missing. try to ⁓ make... to three appointments a week to get out of my self-made cubicle ⁓ not to end up as a whatever strange guy coming out from the cellar ⁓ ⁓ not talked to human people for three weeks. ⁓ the biggest downside where I really see ⁓ direct exchange going to the office. ⁓ talking to the people face to face, it's a complete different thing. You cannot get this with AI. André Neubauer: Thanks. Sebastian: Yeah, but it would be bad if you could get this from AI because then you you really wouldn't need other people, right? ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Might be right. Uwe Franke: I think a lot of people think they can get this from AI and they think that they can even get it better from AI than from humans. Sebastian: That's also true. Yeah. André Neubauer: In regard to impact, how would you rate that? You mentioned earlier, it was not really a fulfilling life, so to say, just managing a company. ⁓ Nevertheless, at the end of the day, you need to sell something pay the bills. ⁓ I think it's the way you described it. I like the idea of freedom. I like the idea of power. The question to me is, how do you see this from the impact point of view? So you can work on a lot of stuff, but does it pay off? could imagine, I remember when I think it was some Altman said, there will be a $1 billion company run by a single person. ⁓ So do you think that is possible? That is something you should strive for or what's your view here? Uwe Franke: So. The first one, the first question, can a one person company really become a billion dollar product? Yeah, I think that was the question what some old man answered. And at the point when he said that, I was ⁓ my head and said, I don't think so. But in the meantime, I generally believe it can. ⁓ On the state of today, one person to a billion ⁓ product is possible now. But I think there is a condition that the people skip right over. It will not be possible for everyone. ⁓ Only if ⁓ were a professional in that field ⁓ and you have the passion to go deeper than everybody else. then it's possible. So when we're talking of software products, because that's the area where I can talk about, I cannot talk about medicine products or cars or whatever, because that's not where I some expertise in. looking on the software field, SaaS services or whatever, I would say someone with no real software background simply can't operate AI as effectively. as a pro can and today, a today state of art. I think in two to three years, that's a little bit of the dystopia what I had from the Cloud Code conference. I'm not ⁓ sure I would repeat that sentence. ⁓ I ⁓ imagine it then will turn around. ⁓ But really helps me is when I talk to AI and when I specify the things that I spent three decades on going the classic route. I have been a junior developer, I have been a senior, I then turned into a team lead, then I had the architecture ownership after the software architect and finally the solution architect. And as I have been also the ⁓ of the business, I had a additional qualification I would call it. It was always paired with the understanding what the customer actually needs, how to make the money and how to manage a room full of stakeholders. And that's a part why I'm not sure if I can do this nowadays. And I think that's exactly the judgment the model still doesn't have. And the stakeholders must not be humans, must not be physical persons, but it's also something like GDPR. Like in voice AI, we have in Germany, especially that voice is biometric data and has the highest responsibility for someone acting with voice and all that things. so, yes, it's possible, not from Germany, I would say nowadays. ⁓ not if you are not an absolutely pro in the area where you want to test it. André Neubauer: Not sure if you want to ⁓ share that or if it goes beyond, ⁓ but I'm wondering if you're a solopreneur and you basically do consulting. I think this is one of your jobs is how do you sell that? How do you find the right price point? I don't know. would be curious to hear how companies think about the price if they realize It's just you, right? So because at the end you're operating a fleet. like what is an agent worth? Is it the same as a consultant back in the days or how do you, how do you do this and take this in consideration? Uwe Franke: Yes, so I have two different ⁓ models what I'm selling. The one is really workshops on introducing, for example, voice AI or conversational AI, helping on the setups, explaining what needs to be done from legal to software stack. also with sample prompts and so on. This is simply where I put on a price tag, which I know also from other people in the area. I would say that's like a good lawyer. Also, Texas's work, that's just this level. And I have longer lasting projects, which is ⁓ really consulting only. This is more about developing an MVP, start for a software product and enabling the company and the people ⁓ working with the AI together on ⁓ with that later on. ⁓ this is a mixture of value and time. So it's and to be true, it's ⁓ André Neubauer: Impact. Uwe Franke: not on everybody the same. It's also a little bit how interesting the stuff is. that's it. But I don't ⁓ a price tag. Like it must be exactly that ⁓ some per hour or per month or whatever. Because ⁓ my clients know that I have several projects running and they give me the freedom ⁓ I can share between this. And yeah. André Neubauer: Thanks for being so open. Uwe Franke: And to be true, I try to find a way that in ⁓ years, ⁓ ⁓ have the opportunity to be free from ⁓ outside contracts, I would call. So that really I can ⁓ the money, what I need for a living ⁓ from the company. itself so example with the trading journal or with the the lego service as a stock trader for 30 years also some kind of trading has some influence on that because i'm i really make my thoughts on on the point what i saw on on that clod code conference in in london ⁓ if speed ⁓ keeps on going up at the same speed as it is right now. What will happen in three years with that knowledge what I have? I'm aware of that, that this is coming, but still I make my mind up, will my knowledge be needed in still in three years or not? Because the AI is then probably so much ahead of that what we have today. that I'm not sure if somebody can simply put in a prompt and say, make me this up. And four hours later, they ask back, yeah, do you have an domain which I should point to the solution. André Neubauer: Yeah. Yeah. think we would cover that topic at the end of that episode. ⁓ No, no, all good, all good. But this is already a nice cliffhanger. So maybe ⁓ let's go already a bit in the direction before we talk about ⁓ hottest shit ⁓ ⁓ stuff. I was wondering, is there anything where you like improve your organization? So you mentioned earlier, you tried to ⁓ Uwe Franke: Okay. André Neubauer: Well, like use agents in a way as a classical organization. So you do some kind of organizational development. Is there some stuff where you improve, where you say, ⁓ if we meet next time, I have another 42 inch ⁓ monitor because ⁓ I ⁓ my company, right? Now I'm running 20 agents in parallel because I learned, ⁓ I introduced a middle layer also by agents. ⁓ Uwe Franke: Okay. Mm-hmm. André Neubauer: Is there, you have any plans in that direction? Uwe Franke: So actually every Friday afternoon is ⁓ time when I make some, ⁓ say, sprint review with my team ⁓ we see what has changed ⁓ last week. ⁓ this is mostly about what new skills or what's ⁓ changes in the skills we had in the last week, what changes in the Claude MD files we had last week and all that stuff. And I tried then to go from bottom up to check for duplicates, what should be in the master Claude MD file. I have a structure of Claude MD files from the main level to project level and sometimes even in ⁓ a sub part of it. ⁓ So my, my cloud hierarchy is the, really the main setup is in the main cloud empty and in the, in the project files itself, it's domain specific. And I try to clean it up on every Friday. I also use that review function of cloud a lot, which gives me hindsight on where I should get more productive. And so I try to refine my work, but I also have running for example, for marketing stuff, a domain where I have no idea on. I'm absolutely not a creative person. So in things of making advertising and so on, I have outsourced it to a paperclip instance, which takes care of that. ⁓ is looking also for my competitors, mostly in the trading journal ⁓ ⁓ Claude is managing that paperclip. as well. And so I tried to extend my team, because what I found good on the paperclip system is that it runs as a company and I hired it as a marketing company to fulfill my needs. So my target is really to run a fully automated marketing system with paperclip. ⁓ ⁓ made up a new credit card ⁓ with spending, small spending ⁓ of euro per month for now, ⁓ which be used by it. ⁓ Test water before ⁓ you in deep. ⁓ And mainly the way I try to ⁓ double or triple my team size ⁓ by ⁓ special and things that I can automate even more. I also have a company dashboard, which is driven by Cloud Cowork, which checks my bank account for pay builds, open builds, which is coming from the trading account, which amounts and so on. And how we move on to the target to get 100 % independent by end of 2028. And it also checks my calendar. André Neubauer: Hmm. Uwe Franke: ask me how we want to structure the day to be most productive. ⁓ for this it's important to know that really every task has a ticket for me in GitHub, ⁓ organizational tasks. And we do a triage every day in the morning ⁓ which task needs to be done today. André Neubauer: Hmm. Uwe Franke: So ⁓ I have a lot of control on my workflow and I also need this kind of control, this structure in a day. André Neubauer: Impressive. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also makes sense to not reinvent the wheel, depend on like, like make use of something which is well known, right? Like so organizational structures, like roads ⁓ and these kinds of things, maybe to not sure if everyone knows what paper clip is about. Maybe, maybe can you summarize it in one or two sentences? Uwe Franke: Paperclip is an AI agent framework, maybe a little bit also similar to OpenClaw, ⁓ but on the same level of being independent. But ⁓ with you create a company there ⁓ and only talk to the CEO of the company ⁓ and rest the agent starts managing on its own. So when I told him I want to research LinkedIn on my own posts, which work best and ⁓ to give me new topics that I can write on and to prepare this as well, he made a contract with LinkedIn professional assistant or something like that. He also ⁓ a researcher on ⁓ trading journal companies to see what the market ⁓ there. And it works also ticket based, which is very friendly for me. yeah, the organizations that grows on its own, only where you have to ⁓ watch all the time is how your tokens are spent and with it also your money is spent for the AI. ⁓ but supports also different models and also open source models. André Neubauer: got to know. Yeah, I got to know Paperclip some months ago after I tried to build up my own organization. then while researching, found out, there is a huge, huge project. I think it's very well known in the open source space. And this is maybe how, ⁓ maybe, maybe find a question. How much do you make use of these kinds of open source ⁓ products? I think they like you use that. on purpose to leverage ⁓ yourself, your solopreneurship, or you tend to build stuff on your own very precisely for your needs. Sorry. Uwe Franke: mainly I'm really the second part. Yeah. It's, hard for me to pass by, to build something on my own because I simply have fun on that. Yeah. So I ⁓ a lot of sports ⁓ ⁓ also have my, my own sports coach, which ⁓ this, my, training stuff within my week plan to get the optimum out of it. And I found it fascinating that I really can. build it on my own and that it more or less really in an area like 90 % exactly matches that what I get from professional training plans or from human trainers. I had a human person as trainer before, but that person ⁓ really wanted to push on its own training plan and ⁓ simply not really recognize that for me work and family is first and I do not earn any buck from sports. So it's not my priority on that. I want to be competitive, but it's like my third priority, not my first priority. but I also, all the time I tend to build things on my own ⁓ I really need to control myself to not to do it. And the paper clip thing was intentionally I heard of it and I played around a little bit with it. And then I wanted to rebuild it by myself, but recommended it to a friend of mine. And he then came back after two or three weeks to me and said, hey, that's great. All I can do all with that. And he exactly uses it for marketing. ⁓ And then had a session with him ⁓ and he showed me what he has done and he is not a developer and not nothing. He simply used it as the tool as it is and I was really fascinated by that and then I said okay for that marketing stuff I really need to rely on on paperclip and I need to stop wanting to do it by myself. André Neubauer: Thanks. Sebastian: All right. Shall we ⁓ slowly but surely get to the last lap basically? André Neubauer: Yeah, reality check, right? So ⁓ as we said back in the days, heiser scheiß, so the hottest things and for sure also the what the fuck moments. Like, can you share some? Uwe Franke: you want the really actual one? ⁓ André Neubauer: Sure. Uwe Franke: fable. The disappear of fable. And it's really funny. You can look on my LinkedIn timeline. On I think on Thursday or Wednesday I posted something about how important it is that you own the stack and that nobody can put a kill switch on you. Exactly one day later, Fable has been turned off by the US government. And the crazy thing about this, ⁓ for now, it really hit all because in traffic, say, so ⁓ like the US government ⁓ intended that ⁓ it not be used by non US people. It's simply not possible for them because they cannot control when somebody is employed in US company if this is in US resident or not. ⁓ all the people have been hit by that decision. ⁓ if my business would really rely on Fable as this model, ⁓ would have been a kill switch. ⁓ this was the... ⁓ André Neubauer: Hmm. Hmm. Uwe Franke: absolutely not wanted proof on what I wrote in that one post and that was really the biggest what-a-fuck moment right now in these days. In this case it's not a technical ⁓ that I was surprised by the result but I was really heart hit that this can happen. This did this, what I never expected that this can happen, that this can happen. And really from one day to another, I woke up, looked at my terminals because I had some jobs running in the night and they all stopped at the same time because I was using Fable for doing it. and I was like, what happened? Did I had an internet outage or whatever? And then I opened up and the first message was, traffic stopped the model. André Neubauer: Yeah. think everyone is doing, everyone is doing risks. A lot of larger companies are doing risk assessment. They usually say, right. So what happens if like the excess is denied? And then usually I think the comment there is likelihood low or close to zero, right. Or very, very low. And I think after Friday or after Saturday, we all learned we may need to recalibrate. ⁓ Not sure if Sebastian and would do a podcast on that, but I think that is really a tough thing. ⁓ Actually, at least I do not have a simple answer how to react on that, but you absolutely have a proof. You have a proof on the post before. ⁓ So congratulations. Nevertheless, congratulations. Uwe Franke: what I did not want. It's a... Sebastian: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm just thinking like everybody's saying, Okay, this is a wake-up call now, right? I mean how many do we need? It's ⁓ pressing this news button again, I'm pretty sure. ⁓ let's see. André Neubauer: And in regard to the hottest shit, so what are you giving a try at the moment? What is like really fascinating you? Can you? Uwe Franke: Yeah, what's really fascinating for me is right now, that's what I named right before, the usage of paperclip. ⁓ the one thing why I have really ⁓ competence in is ⁓ marketing. And had some dry runs ⁓ right And ⁓ when see... ⁓ what that agent also produces on creatives and also summarizes me where I have to go in for marketing to sell my subscription service for the trading journal. It even brings me up that there is some guy sitting in Switzerland using a US-based journal and he would be a good influencer ⁓ he should make up an email ⁓ him to get him using my journal and to having as a leading person there. ⁓ And me up to complete different business models what I had before. ⁓ My main model was driven by a SaaS and then he came back with research telling me, maybe it's not the SaaS what you should go for. You should bundle up with brokers and they pay you a success fee when somebody opens an account and this can be like one on a... one fee on a one performance fee could be like three to four years subscription fee. So it's a model which I did not have on my mind. And also what I have seen on the ⁓ images creatives, ⁓ it reproduced for me, it's really cool. And it really touches the fine stereo target group and so on. ⁓ is ⁓ interesting because It really... ⁓ ⁓ it gives a contract to that. What I said before that you need to have the core competence and that what you are doing with AI, because it shows that I absolutely do not have competence on marketing. That's something what I, it's not my thing. Yeah. I also do not like to post on social media, but I have good LinkedIn posts because I learned it and I tried to step outside a little bit. But this is really the, for me, the hottest shit to get into it, how I can make more use of that, helping me also on other things where I have deficits or which I do not like to do. and to scale my one person army. André Neubauer: You Uwe Franke: My Swiss knife. André Neubauer: Good. I mentioned earlier, so there will be, we will also, you will talk about the prediction. So maybe now is the time. So where does this all lead to from your perspective? Uwe Franke: Okay. The prediction is also prediction for for for which timeframe or over all prediction. André Neubauer: Let's say in short, I worked with some consultants back in the days when I was at DHL. They always said, Andre explained it short, mid and long term. Uwe Franke: for them. Okay, ⁓ okay. So, so short term, let's see if you think on short term, like, like two to three years, I think that the within the three years, the software sector is the first industry hit hit by full force. So I would say, if you're a mid level developer, who is not passionate about software development and who stepped into that industry because there was a good salary to earn. I would say run, run as fast as you can. Learn on something else, maybe how to cut bonsai trees in the favorite way, because this will be not be replaced by AI, ⁓ in 10 years, not in 20 years. Why? ⁓ it's a passion of people ⁓ not a business thing. But... the not passionate people in the industry will simply disappear. ⁓ don't need it anymore. ⁓ that's a ⁓ prediction. ⁓ think on the long-term view, probably ⁓ also need to find maybe a new social contract for our whole society because ⁓ work and life will change. I'm not sure if we will have ⁓ enough work for all the people, at least not on industrial intended way. But ⁓ we manage it ⁓ make a change there, ⁓ then probably ⁓ social ⁓ will much better than it is. ⁓ today, but it's a challenge. And I think that wave is coming much, much faster than everybody expecting right now, especially when robotics and AI get on the next level. Sebastian: ⁓ that that's a topic we have debated on this podcast before. And there's ⁓ sides to the or two perspectives, right? So one pers perspective is the ⁓ always forget. it's is it Jevons paradox or and anyhow. So like ⁓ any ⁓ new in the history, right? Be it the mechanization of ⁓ of agriculture ⁓ or it the ⁓ steam whatever. André Neubauer: Yeah Uwe Franke: Mm-hmm. Sebastian: did not lead to less work but more work because of the rebound effect, right? And it's like to me it's really still open how this will end up because ultimately what what you have, and and I think you described it n nicely ⁓ at some point, as long as you're doing or creating products and services for humans, and the models are not like perfect how do I say it ⁓ twins of humans that that have taste that have the the emotions that have like ⁓ world model of of humans if you wish right then it will be hard to ⁓ this fully without humans ⁓ I mean ultimately yeah the the goal I think back in the I don't know thirties or fifties already was like at some point we only need What was it fifteen hour work week or something? Or maybe even less because everything is automated. Let's see. Uwe Franke: And now our Chancellor talks of like 60 hours work weeks to get Germany back again. But anyhow, also, yeah, I heard on a... Yeah, event I have been some weeks before, I heard interesting information. I'm not sure if it's right or not right. But it was said that we already like skipped the highest point of population on Earth. And that it's only Africa, which still has a growing population and all the other continents have already ⁓ ⁓ steady reduce. ⁓ André Neubauer: They're shrinking. Uwe Franke: in the shrinking in the population and for example if China does not make a turnaround in the birth rate it's expected that already in 2017 so like 50 years from now they will say will be back like to 550 millions so then anyhow, it solves the problem of maybe having less jobs because there also will be less people. And that's also an interesting approach, yeah, that's a different podcast. Sebastian: That's true. Just for for completeness, it yeah, just just for completeness, population is still growing by ⁓ point eight four percent, at least from last year to this year, but the growth rate is declining and it's expected to stop at some point and then pretty much turnarounds and then growth will be negative. Yeah. Uwe Franke: Mm-hmm. Yeah. André Neubauer: Thank you for sharing. ⁓ Let's see if that turns out. So we also need to meet. This is the good thing. So looking forward to meet you again, maybe not in two or three years, maybe earlier, And until then, much success with your solar entrepreneurship. Thanks for having you. Uwe Franke: Thanks for having me and that was really interesting. Sebastian: Thank you.