Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Bonus Episode: Michael Barthmus, Owner & CEO of Sivetz Roasting Machines

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Bonus Episode: Michael Barthmus, Owner & CEO of Sivetz Roasting Machines · Coffee People Podcast

0:04
there's something I'm missing here and I want to bring it in
0:08
to the story when Brian and I you know, separated ways and I
0:14
took on Civets on my own, there was, there was somebody who
0:21
helped me through that phase and who I couldn't have done this
0:24
without is a good friend of mine who I met at the coffee shop,
0:30
who is name is Bob old father. And he is just a very
0:35
experienced business person engineer, you know, just kind of
0:39
one of those all around guys that can do it all.
0:44
He was kind enough to allow Allow me to move into his shop.
0:48
He has good really big shop on his property.
0:51
He allowed me to move in there and spend the last two years,
0:56
going through the R&D phase of getting it up to where it is now
1:01
and was a big part of the engineering side of things.
1:05
I'm not an engineer. I am not wired that way, but Bob
1:12
was, was that kind of arm for me?
1:16
And, you know, lend a hand when it came to the engineering side
1:21
of developing different, various parts of the roaster.
1:26
And so he is. His contribution has been
1:29
invaluable to me and allowing me to have that space and also
1:34
providing that input and that knowledge and the tools.
1:39
This guy has more tools than you've ever seen in your life.
1:42
I mean, I think for everything and that's been kind of the
1:46
Amazing. Part of it is getting through
1:48
this in a fairly small shop. I'm just so grateful for what he
1:53
has done for civets and for giving me that opportunity.
1:57
We're now in the process of moving to a fabricator, who's
2:01
also going to assemble for us in Portland.
2:03
They have a lot of experience in this in this field and I'm
2:07
really looking forward to accessing their expertise and
2:13
their knowledge to continue to improve.
2:16
How we build The Roaster and how it functions.
2:19
Very cool. I mean, it is really important
2:21
to just have those people that support you even if they weren't
2:25
part of that original plan or that original thought they sort
2:27
of appear when you most need them.
2:30
Yes, this is all been self-funded.
2:32
I'm, you know, I'm pretty deep on a personal level financially,
2:37
you know, didn't have Deep Pockets to to invest in all of
2:40
these. These kind of R&D steps and just
2:44
having these people in my life and having access Yes, to these
2:46
resources again through like the sbdc a business Oregon.
2:50
Omap I can't remember forget omap Oregon manufacturing
2:54
engineering. They have also been a big help
2:58
in getting it this far and you know I couldn't have done it
3:02
without having access to those people trying to really get this
3:06
done on a very small budget. Hey, good morning everyone.
3:25
Welcome to a very special holiday bonus.
3:28
Episode of the roast West Coast coffee podcast.
3:32
I'm Ryan Walt. And this is the show where I
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bring you the stories of coffee people.
3:36
We're in between Seasons, six and seven, but I recently had a
3:40
great chat with Michael bartmess.
3:42
He's the CEO and The Man Behind civets roasting machines.
3:46
In Hood River, Oregon civets is a name that has been around in
3:49
coffee for more than half a century.
3:51
The founder, Michael civets wrote a more than 700 page book
3:56
about coffee processing technology in the early 1960s.
4:00
And later, he started his own company designing and
4:04
Manufacturing fluid bed Coffee Roasters inspired by his own
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frustrations, with the efficiency and the effectiveness
4:10
of the traditional drum roaster in a civets roaster.
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The coffee beans aren't spun in a heated.
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Instead a steady stream of forced heated, air rotates the
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mass of beans in a cyclone. The heated air allows for the
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rapid and uniform transfer of heat to the beans and a greater
4:26
level of control. At least, that's what I learned
4:29
on the civets website. Unfortunately, Michael civets
4:32
passed away in 2012 and for a Time the brand was in a state of
4:36
flux. And I believe even when dormant
4:38
for a moment until a local coffee shop owner, today's
4:41
guest, Michael Barth Miss decided to revitalize the brand.
4:45
And Configure the iconic Roasters.
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With some new designs, and Technology options, you can
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learn more about the history of civets.
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While you're listening today by visiting civets.com, you can go
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directly to that link from this podcasts show notes or detour
5:01
through roast westcoast.com where you'll find that link and
5:04
so much more to set the scene. I was chatting with Michael,
5:08
while a winter storm. Was raging outside my home in.
5:10
Southern California on the other side of the video chat, was
5:13
Michael a Dapper looking gentleman with Lovely looking
5:17
fireplace in the background. I was pretty envious of how cozy
5:20
it appeared and I was excited to see him because I had an
5:23
interview to anyone in a while but interviewing and recording
5:26
is a skill like anything. And I was a little rusty, there
5:30
was just a bit of technical difficulty and the first two
5:33
minutes of our chat are lost in The Ether of the internet.
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I'm going to blame that storm so we're going to jump into this
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conversation as Michael is talking about his first coffee
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experiences wherever you are subtle.
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In. I hope you're staying warm and
5:48
you have a steaming hot mug of coffee to enjoy.
5:50
As you listen to this conversation with entrepreneur
5:53
and the CEO of civets roasting machines, Michael Barth Miss on
5:57
the roast West Coast coffee podcast.
6:15
There was no Starbucks and, you know, we were more likely to
6:18
grab a jolt cola if you had to do an all-nighter, when you were
6:22
to drink a pot of coffee, so I didn't really grow up with it
6:27
per se, but then, I was living over in Germany for all of the
6:31
90s and there's just a strong Italian influence in most of
6:37
Germany, most of Europe. You know, Italian cafes are all
6:40
over the place and, you know, drinking lattes and cappuccinos
6:44
and espresso has been a thing as a part.
6:46
Been a part of European culture for a bit longer than I would
6:50
say than in the u.s. So that was kind of how I
6:53
started getting into coffee. I had no idea that it was going
6:57
to become my my profession. Well, you were in Germany
7:01
working for an auto company. What brought you back from
7:06
Germany to the United States? What brought you Tonight, United
7:09
States in particular. How did you end up owning a
7:12
coffee shop in Hood? River Oregon.
7:15
Well, I worked for Mercedes-Benz in their world headquarters,
7:19
which is in Stuttgart Germany. I did that for about almost 12
7:22
years. I'm part German.
7:24
My parents are both originally German.
7:26
I grew up speaking German so I was kind of having an identity
7:30
crisis after 10 years in Germany.
7:34
So I decided to take a year off and travel for a year.
7:38
The US, I bought an RV and just traveled around and you know, I
7:45
wanted to have some time and see all the national parks and get
7:49
out. But also in the back of my mind,
7:51
I was looking for a place to settle down.
7:53
I kind of knew I wanted to be in a smaller Community, a smaller
7:58
town. I didn't want to live in a big
8:00
city, I thought that was just long-term, it just wasn't
8:04
healthy. And so I took that year off
8:07
traveled, A year in that year found Hood River.
8:11
Totally randomly came out here to see a concert and that was
8:16
kind of the seed that was planted but I didn't know what I
8:19
was going to do here, and I actually went back to Mercedes,
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but this time I stayed here in the US and worked for the
8:26
Mercedes-Benz USA headquarters and I was in product management,
8:32
therefore the Maybach which was a totally different thing and
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came out here on Caishen two years in found out that this
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coffee shop and in Hood River was for sale and just grabbed
8:47
the opportunity and jumped on it.
8:48
I knew if I was going to wait for the perfect thing to come
8:50
along, it wasn't going to. And I just felt like I could
8:56
take the challenge on and make it happen.
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That's really interesting to me that you bought a coffee shop
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that was in existence and I believe is still in existence
9:05
even though you're no longer the owner.
9:07
Yes. How Did you assimilate into that
9:09
Community small communities in particular?
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I grew up in a small community are very local and they know
9:14
everybody. And the coffee shop is a hub of
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that that gossip. And that is like the hardware
9:20
store. It's like a place where people
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meet and and talk. How long did it take before you
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felt like, you know what I'm part of this Hood, River
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Community. Well, the old-time residents of
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Hood, River will never say, let you say that your local but I
9:37
thought, you know, if you're going to move into a new
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community like this, that was a great way to meet people and to,
9:48
you know, gain exposure to so many different facets of the
9:52
town and the people of the town. So I really couldn't think of a
9:55
better way to get to know people very quickly.
9:59
There's a very tight-knit, small business community and Downtown
10:03
Hood River and they embraced me and took me in and it was just a
10:10
great environment to have this experience that I was looking
10:14
for was kind of getting out of the Rat Race, the hustle and
10:18
bustle of the big city life and doing something.
10:22
I wanted to do for myself in a different environment in that
10:27
type of community. When you bought that coffee
10:30
shop, did you have any coffee experience before that making
10:35
drinks? Serving customers obviously
10:37
through Mercedes, but I mean, what was your level of
10:40
expertise? I like you're shaking your head
10:43
there. Yeah, I didn't have any, I could
10:47
make a pretty mean cappuccino in my RV.
10:51
One of those little frothing, milk frothers, and I was at the
10:54
my little stovetop espresso maker and so that I was always
10:58
fun to To like, you know, blow people's minds that they were
11:01
getting this cappuccino in an RV park, so that was really the
11:07
only, you know, I didn't really have that exposure to it other
11:11
than being a, you know, I'm a customer service oriented person
11:15
I'd traveled a lot. I've tried a lot of coffees and
11:18
restaurants and I just had thought I had a good feeling for
11:22
what customer service was about. And that in the end, that's
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really what ties it all together.
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That was And what I focused on, you know, I was very good at
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working in the business and not on the business, which was a
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good thing in the first couple of years because it really had
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to gain some traction. First, I love being in the
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store. I loved making coffee, I
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probably made more drinks in those ten years than anybody
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else. That worked there, I just loved
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it. You did work there for.
11:53
You did own that property, believe doppio Cafe is up.
11:57
I pronouncing that right. Yes, don't be.
11:59
Oh yes, you do. Be out for a long time.
12:03
At what point did you become aware of civets machine
12:06
Roasters? Which is what you're doing now?
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Yeah. So, for the longest time, I
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wasn't even really aware of the civets brand, but it was the
12:18
coffee that I was serving in that Cafe.
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So when I bought it, it had been in operation for six months and
12:27
there was a lot of fixing to do and a lot of things to work on
12:31
in order to make the numbers work, a little better.
12:36
But one of the things that was working really well and that
12:39
was, you know, the very most consistent thing in there was
12:43
the coffee. And so, I stayed with that
12:47
coffee provider and Brian Graves is gentleman, who owns specific
12:52
room, coffee ended up becoming a good friend of mine and That was
12:59
the coffee. We sold their.
13:00
So, so my experience was civets more than anything is, you know,
13:05
on a daily face-to-face basis of people telling me how amazing
13:09
the coffee was and how, what, a good experience they had.
13:12
So, I had a tight relationship with civets before I even really
13:16
knew about it. And I was so focused on all
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these other things in the cafe of figuring out the food and
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figuring out personnel and you know, how it is just wearing
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many different hats as a Cafe owner.
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But the coffee was the one thing that was consistent and good.
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And I didn't even know what it, what it meant for a shop to get
13:37
beings that they would have to send back to their to their, you
13:40
know producer. We just had this very
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consistent, great quality of coffee that he never had any
13:50
intention of changing and that time that I owned it and that's
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just to clarify then. So they were roasting and
13:56
producing and wholesaling. On coffee, as well as producing
14:01
a coffee roasting machine. They're building their own
14:03
machines is that, is that what I'm understanding correctly?
14:06
So civets Michael civets, they was building Coffee Roasters, in
14:13
Corvallis, Oregon up until 2012. He passed away in 2012 and the
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brand went dormant for a couple years.
14:22
And then the gentleman that I was getting my coffee from Brian
14:27
state. In touch with the civets family
14:30
and he's the one who ended up acquiring the brand from them
14:35
and you know, bringing it back to Hood River and I joined
14:40
forces with him in 2019 to get to, to start and to kind of get
14:47
it off the ground again. And so he is the one who
14:50
originally was able to connect with the family and and acquire
14:56
there's no patents left. There was Patent on anything,
14:59
the patent that Michael civets had gotten, was back from 1976.
15:05
And so it was, you know, it had run out and like, 1998 or
15:09
something, so there were no patents.
15:11
So, it was really just about the brand and about the civets name
15:15
and the technical drawings and all of the things that we got
15:19
that showed us how the roadsters were built.
15:22
So in this is where things get really interesting to me.
15:25
You took on a brand name that Did that people in Oregon
15:30
certainly and people that were using those Roasters were we're
15:33
aware of you are coming, not necessarily from a if you're
15:39
coming from a cafe or coffee experience, and from Mercedes,
15:43
you have some product experience.
15:44
But you are going to start recreating a roaster.
15:49
That is your own building, a new coffee roaster.
15:52
That is your own, but also with that influence of the civets
15:56
Branded civets name, I'm hoping you could explain to me real
16:00
quick. What it is civets is doing.
16:02
Now, what your company is doing now and real quick is a terrible
16:05
way to ask you to do that because I'm sure it's hard to
16:07
break down. It does short thing but what is
16:10
the product that you're that you're building that you're out
16:13
there pitching now? And how did you go from working
16:18
with Brian to acquire this name and to get involved in it to
16:22
having a product that you are offering the world?
16:25
I knew that be because of the reputation and because of the
16:29
amount of Roasters that were out there all around the world, you
16:33
know, roasting 10, 20, 30 years after they've been put into into
16:38
use, I knew that there was, you know, something that was very
16:44
special about that and just having this kind of
16:47
dependability and reliability. In order to have the consistency
16:53
is like the Holy Grail of Any of any roaster is being able to do
16:58
that. And so I knew that there was
17:01
something, you know, that was a very solid core and a very solid
17:05
foundation. But I also knew that there were
17:07
some things that can be improved Upon A Lot on the mechanical
17:11
side of things and the way that the doors and shoots opened and
17:14
you know, there's a number of things that could have been that
17:18
we improved on as far as the ergonomics and how the how the
17:21
machine operates goes. That was what I would say.
17:26
Was the first part of it is, is improving the ergonomics and the
17:30
design, I mean, people are a lot more into design now than they
17:35
were in 1978. You know, it was kind of more of
17:38
an industrial machine that was in a coffee factory.
17:42
Whereas room or even, you know, coffee roasting has taken on bit
17:46
a little bit more of a romantic kind of approach where people
17:50
want to see the coffee. They want to know that their
17:52
coffees being roasted, right? Then and right there and and on
17:55
the property. So you know we knew that
17:59
improving their economics and the design was going to be, you
18:05
know, the key to one of the one of the keys to Bringing The
18:08
Roaster into the 21st century. So when I was working with
18:12
Brian, those were the things kind of weird that we were
18:15
focusing on the next stage was where I saw the real potential
18:20
of fluid bed, roasting, and that's in the world of
18:23
automation. Most of the heating of the beans
18:27
and a fluid bed. Roaster is convective, and not
18:32
conductive. And so, there are quite a few
18:35
advantages to heating the beams. That way.
18:39
There's the air roaster. The general are roaster.
18:41
We have the drum roasting world, and the are roasting World.
18:45
Michael civets was the first one to enter into this world.
18:49
He applied something. He learned in another
18:54
application. Caishen to coffee beans and kind
18:58
of started this, this are Revolution, you know kind of
19:01
pushing on the Simplicity of the design, the lack of Maintenance.
19:06
It's they it's just a very easy roaster to maintain on and to
19:12
enter repair. And so these were all the things
19:14
that were kind of pushing it to the Forefront when lowering
19:19
introduced their Roasters. And this is not a fluid bed,
19:24
roaster. What luring and IMF are doing is
19:26
this recirculation roaster. So it's again, using mostly
19:31
convective heat. But the beans are being agitated
19:34
by the paddles where, as, in a fluid bed roaster, there's a
19:37
steady stream of air blowing in through the bottom of the Rose
19:41
chamber. That is both agitating and
19:44
heating being in the beans at the same time.
19:46
So there are some, you know, differences within the
19:50
recirculating roaster and the fluid bed.
19:52
Roaster that We'll set them apart from each other but that's
19:59
kind of the main difference within within the the air
20:02
Roasters. How long was it from the time
20:06
that you started working on this to the time that you had a
20:09
product that you felt this looks the way I want it operates the
20:13
way that I want or at least as close to it as I am before I put
20:17
it out for people to judge and tell me if I succeeded Yeah,
20:23
well, we kind of, you know, we presented The Roaster for the
20:26
first time at the sca said, we had a booth at the sca show in
20:30
Boston in April. And that was kind of the first
20:33
time that we were able to present this newer design this
20:38
this improved ergonomics and show some of the automation side
20:46
of what we were doing. You know, we were having able to
20:49
have our touch screen there and the PLC and Was was on the back
20:53
of the roaster. And so we were able to at least
20:56
kind of show what we were doing. But since then has been kind of
21:00
this focus on the automation, side of things and getting it
21:05
dialed in to where we're on the one side or we're allowing the
21:10
user to preset recipes. You know, where you're setting
21:13
like 10-step profile where you set the recipe and that takes
21:19
place within our without our own.
21:22
Elsie and within our own Community there.
21:25
And then we also wanted to make access to our gas controls
21:29
available to third-party software.
21:32
So now we can connect to Artisan and we can connect to crop stir
21:37
and we're able to control the gas on our burner with that
21:41
setup. Sure.
21:44
And those are coffee roasting software's that are used to one
21:47
track what you're doing, but also to control the different
21:50
variables that people are that roast.
21:52
Ours are using when they're roasting their coffee.
21:55
Yes, Artisan is used. I would say more for, you know,
21:59
tracking your roasts, the actual roasting process itself.
22:05
Crops Turner is more of like an all-around, you know, business
22:09
model that roaster. He's use, you know, bigger
22:12
production, Roasters used to run their whole operation where it's
22:17
tracking their green bean inventory.
22:19
And you know, they can put all their cupping notes.
22:22
Everything can kind of exist in one ecosystem, that also allows
22:27
them then to, to control our, you know, our roaster with that,
22:32
with that software. How has this experience of?
22:37
I mean, you're essentially creating, you're designing a
22:40
product, and now you're manufacturing it and I believe
22:43
you're manufacturing it in Oregon.
22:45
That just seems so overwhelming to me for one.
22:47
But how does this compare to, you know, that 10 years running.
22:52
In the cafe, where every day is its own, kind of entity.
22:56
Obviously there's a bigger picture, but you're dealing with
22:58
problems, kind of immediately, you know, in the moment and
23:01
dealing with customers in the moment.
23:02
And here you're dealing on, you're working with this
23:05
long-term kind of vision for what this roaster is going to
23:08
be. And I assume as you're
23:10
developing meeting potential clients, taking orders, that may
23:14
be getting the roaster six months from now.
23:16
I mean, how is that transition been for you personally?
23:20
It's been, I mean, it's been tough.
23:23
I guess I underestimated a lot of those challenges, but I did
23:27
make this conscious kind of effort to get off of what I call
23:31
the front line, which is retail, if you're in a coffee shop
23:34
environment, 7 days a week, five in the morning, till 7:00 at
23:38
night. You know, there's a certain
23:40
grind and repetitiveness to that, that will wear you down
23:44
over time. And that's what I call a work in
23:47
the front line. So this is an opportunity.
23:50
You tape it take a step back from that kind of what I call
23:55
the pickaxes and shovels approach, which during the Gold
23:59
Rush, the people who really struck it.
24:01
Rich were the people selling pickaxes and shovels and not the
24:04
people panning for gold. So once you've figured out how
24:08
to pan for gold, you should move on and be a provider of those
24:13
things or the knowledge to do those things.
24:16
And so that was kind of my intention was hopefully taking
24:20
on something that would get me off the front line.
24:24
And so this was that the part that I underestimated is how
24:29
linear the development in the R&D is and the fact that you
24:34
can't Leap. Frog, two other steps.
24:37
Everything has to happen. Step after step, after step, you
24:41
know, you can't figure out your modulation until you figured out
24:44
which gas while valve works. The best with this burner and
24:48
you can't figure out your profiling until you figured out
24:52
how to dial that. Roaster, you know, that burner
24:55
range incorrectly. So all these things happen in a
24:58
very linear fashion that have made it frustrating and but
25:05
challenging at the same time and I can't imagine how much more
25:09
difficult that would have been trying to work with an overseas
25:12
manufacturing, and of things having everything here in the US
25:17
and having everything pretty much mostly in Oregon or
25:20
Washington, most of our vendors as It made it more manageable to
25:26
to work our way through this Rd phase that we're kind of still
25:29
in, but coming out of them. That's really interesting that
25:33
it's actually easier. I think one reason people assume
25:36
to send manufacturing overseas is pricing, but the value that
25:40
you're getting in return for having access to all of your
25:43
vendors locally is proving to be more beneficial.
25:47
I'm assuming. Absolutely.
25:49
Absolutely. And then I've also you know
25:52
there's there's a lot of support out there for businesses that
25:59
are trying to keep things in Oregon or in the S.
26:02
So one of my great discoveries has been the relationships, I've
26:07
stacked established with business Oregon, and with the
26:11
Small Business Development Center, who have provided
26:16
numerous grants and and opportunities to help get me
26:22
through this phase, they understand kind of the struggles
26:25
and the, and the difficulty of getting something like this off
26:29
the ground, and Have been just fantastic to work with and
26:34
provide me more resources and provide me with connections to
26:39
the people that were able to get us to the next step.
26:42
I think that's an important just lesson or a reminder even for
26:46
myself as you're saying and I'm thinking about about it
26:49
selfishly but you don't always have to do everything alone,
26:52
especially when you're you're building something new that will
26:55
hopefully uplift your community and the business Community as
26:59
well. You come from an entrepreneurial
27:01
family. You're married into an
27:03
entrepreneurial family, believe your wife owns a business as
27:05
well. How do you guys work together
27:08
Inspire each other? Or what kind of push and pull is
27:11
there from having more than one person who is pursuing this
27:15
effort? Which can be challenging
27:17
individually. But certainly when you're a
27:19
team, there's different rules. Yeah, and also we have a
27:23
seven-year-old so that kind of adds even more.
27:27
My wife Christine has been a huge influence on me.
27:31
Me and has been kind of my backbone and and getting me
27:35
through these these first couple years of getting this off the
27:39
ground and you know, having kind of that that business mindset
27:46
has really helped me. You know, to have somebody to
27:49
balance all these ideas off of and she has helped very much
27:53
form how this company has evolved.
27:56
You know, we were for a while there, she had the jewelry store
27:59
and I had the coffee shop. Pop to retail operations was a
28:03
bit much that was just, you know, Relentless, especially
28:09
with mind being the seven days a week one, you know, it never it.
28:13
Never let up. So having one retail operation
28:17
now and having one kind of this manufacturing company just seems
28:23
to be working. Well, as far as, you know,
28:25
separating those things and being still being able to help
28:28
each other out. Sure.
28:30
And it's just the logistics of of life for anyone listening.
28:35
I know we have a lot of listeners who are either in the
28:37
industry or aspiring to be that seven days a week thing.
28:41
You've mentioned a couple of times, that's something I'm
28:43
familiar with it. Really is more.
28:45
It's almost feels like more than seven days a week because when
28:48
you're not at work, you're still at work and your mind is still
28:53
working on it. When you're taking your kids to
28:55
school, or when you're getting groceries, there's never really
28:58
a break and being the face of the community.
29:00
I'm so boxing a little bit. Now, a face in the community,
29:03
people will recognize you and say hello and you have to be on,
29:07
you know, in a way you don't have to be at home or if you're
29:10
behind the desk somewhere, which just a different challenge.
29:14
What's something that you've learned since kind of taking
29:15
over this company that has surprised you or is kind of a
29:19
lesson that you're going to be taking with you, as you're
29:21
moving forward, I've had, we've had a lot of curve balls thrown
29:27
at us. I like one of the things that I,
29:30
that I really, we've said a lot and that I like, like to kind of
29:34
use, you don't know what you don't know.
29:38
And so in this kind of phase where we've been, you know,
29:42
figuring things out and constantly going into into new
29:47
territories. It's amazing, what you find out?
29:50
What was what's out there, what's available that you didn't
29:53
even know about that? You really, really Pays off to
29:59
do the research and to talk to as many different people as you
30:02
can and to get as many different opinions as you can because
30:06
there's you just don't know what you don't know, you don't know.
30:09
And the only way you'll find out is to you if you go seek out the
30:12
information and so I've just had a really good community of of
30:18
talented people who have been able to go to to kind of
30:21
collaborate and pull all this together.
30:24
So that's kind of when a big one, you don't know what you
30:27
don't know. And then Then the other thing
30:29
that I really learned trust but verify, I can't tell you how
30:33
many times we trusted that part that we got was was was the
30:39
right one and we would you know, figure out way later that what
30:45
we assumed was the right thing was not, we spent a couple weeks
30:49
going down a rabbit hole when one of our thermocouples, was
30:55
the gentleman who said it up said, is it that?
30:58
Set up to be a j-type thermocouple and we just
31:02
couldn't get it to work and the readings were all over the
31:04
place. And finally, after weeks and
31:05
weeks, someone, you know, made us go in and check it with, you
31:10
know, stick the stick. The thermocouple in a cup of
31:13
boiling water and should read to 12 and it wasn't.
31:17
And so we knew that something else was off, and then we
31:19
figured out it had been programmed for a k-type
31:21
thermocouple and not a j-type thermocouple.
31:24
So we verified that and not just trusted it.
31:28
You know, we would have saved ourselves a lot of work and a
31:30
lot of banging our heads up against the wall, trying to
31:34
figure out why these readings were all over the place.
31:37
Sure, I think my dad told me that as a joke, 20 years ago, 40
31:41
years ago about, you know, when you hire someone to come and fix
31:44
your tractor or your washing machine or whatever and they you
31:48
know, they come in and they bang around and it's still broken.
31:50
Someone else comes a bang around, still broken.
31:52
And finally, you, you hire the person who's charging ten times
31:55
as much and they walk up and they do one little thing and
31:58
Fixed you're not paying them for fixing it, you're paying them
32:01
because they knew how to fix it. It's right and or how to fix
32:04
something and so that's kind of what you're learning.
32:07
Yeah. What is next for civets?
32:10
And actually before before you answer that who is the client
32:14
for civets? Who is the customer that is
32:16
going to be buying? These is it?
32:19
I'm not even going to presume I'll just let you answer that
32:21
question. Who's the customer?
32:22
And then what do you see as kind of the next phase of what you're
32:25
doing? Yeah, I think we're kind of From
32:28
at least, you know, our experience up to now with the
32:31
the roasters we've sold, our biggest source has been smaller
32:36
are roasters. So they're coming from a coffee
32:39
Crafters, Artisan or an ash roaster or you know, one of
32:44
these five ten pound are Roasters and they make fantastic
32:49
coffees. They Bennett have a lot of the
32:52
benefits you know, is they're What's called the spouting fluid
32:56
bed roaster. For the most part.
32:58
So they're open air, they're not in a contained environment.
33:01
But they make fantastic coffees and there's people have been
33:05
very successful with them and when they outgrow that machine,
33:10
you know, when they're working that thing, 12 hours a day, six
33:13
days a week and they have all the spare parts already ready to
33:16
go, you know, that's that's when they come to us and they're
33:20
looking to to increase their capacity, increase their daily
33:26
amount that they can roast. But they still want to stay with
33:29
are roasting, they understand and want to continue to offer
33:34
the benefits of are roasting, but on a bigger scale, I would
33:38
imagine as a roaster it's not something I had thought about,
33:41
but committing to a roaster roasting machine is is almost
33:46
like a partnership in and of itself because that's the style
33:50
you're learning on. That's the equipment you're
33:52
learning on. So you to just say, oh, well,
33:55
I'm going to buy a new machine. That's not an error.
33:58
Roaster. It's, you know, drumroll stir
34:00
something to give me. Different somehow wouldn't just
34:03
be as simple as plugging in a new machine and going to work
34:06
you starting all over. Yeah, yeah.
34:09
I mean even between the smaller are boaster and a bigger
34:13
roaster. There's still a learning curve
34:15
there to, you know, make that make that leap.
34:18
But it's not nearly as complex. It would be to switch to a drum
34:22
roaster from from one of these smaller smaller are Roasters.
34:26
Sure. And I had interrupted you.
34:28
You my question had been. What's next?
34:30
You know, what's the next phase for Summits?
34:32
That? Would you say just the second
34:34
group that we want to see the growth in is drum Roasters
34:40
convert people that are converting from from drum to an
34:42
air roaster. You know, I think loring's done
34:44
a great job of increasing kind of the visibility and the
34:50
understanding of what are roasting can be.
34:54
So I think, you know, being able to Convert some drum Roasters is
35:00
going to be a big part of our of our next or next, push going
35:05
forward. Yeah, I think there's there's
35:07
definitely some benefits and advantages that are coming to
35:10
light more and more and hoping that that we can be a part of
35:15
that Trend. So what's next from servants you
35:19
were asking about that. You know there's A couple of
35:22
things that we still need to improve on that.
35:26
We want to focus on, I think, first and foremost, we are in a
35:33
climate crisis. We are definitely facing
35:36
unprecedented changes to our environment and our our part in
35:43
that, as a large-scale, roaster is not insignificant and I'm
35:50
taking that on. Tan has a challenge to become
35:53
more environmentally sustainable.
35:55
We're going to start it, you know, implementing or working
35:59
with a heat exchanger. So we're bringing some of the
36:02
heat back into the roaster. We're working with Vortex to
36:06
offer this, this wet scrubber that can help, you know, your
36:12
carbon footprint and the amount of emissions that you're letting
36:16
into the air without burning additional fuel is the great
36:20
thing about the Tex is that you're not having to run an
36:24
afterburner, some afterburners can use as much or as much as
36:28
three times three to four times what the actual Roasters using.
36:33
So making a few changes and trying to become more efficient,
36:39
we're going to try to develop a smaller roaster.
36:42
We're Mike civets built Roasters, anything between 500
36:47
grams and and to Baggers, he covered that whole range.
36:51
So we Want to offer a five to ten pound roast, or something,
36:55
in that range. That will be an electric
36:57
roaster. And then we want to move up into
37:01
the larger Roasters. Probably the most requests I've
37:05
had where her for the half bag roaster.
37:07
What we're doing is the quarter bag.
37:08
It's a 15 kilo roaster. And there has been a lot of
37:13
demand in the 30 kilo size. So I think that's the size that
37:17
we will kind of move move up towards developing.
37:21
Of these editions with a better environmental stewardship in
37:27
mind. I think we need we need to do
37:29
better than that. There's a lot more technology
37:32
out there that's going to help us, you know, even now, like our
37:36
burners, it's a modulating burner.
37:39
Now, that was one of the main changes that we made is that we
37:44
can fluctuate the fan speed and we can modulate the gas.
37:48
And so it's already now, become much more.
37:51
Ficient. Because once we're at our once,
37:54
The Roaster is hot and in motion, the burner percentage
37:59
will come down quite a bit and it's just operating at a more
38:05
efficient level, whereas it used to be the gas was on 100% And
38:08
The Fan was on 100%. And those are those were your
38:11
two options there. And so we're already doing
38:15
making some some strides with this with the, with the way that
38:20
we're roasting now with the Smudge, letting gas in this
38:22
variable fan speed, but we will continue to work in that
38:26
direction and make it more environmentally sustainable
38:30
product. While I commend you for taking
38:33
on that, that challenge kind of the push and pull of trying to
38:36
create something that you're going to put out into the world.
38:39
When there are direct challenges to, your two values, or your
38:43
beliefs about sustainability and climate change.
38:46
And you're trying to put something out, that will be
38:48
better in the long run, but in the short term, you're Well,
38:51
creating something else that Patagonia problem.
38:54
Yes. Where you're building and
38:56
growing, which in is inherently wasteful.
38:59
But at the same time, you're trying to create a better
39:02
future, very challenging. So I wish you the best on truly,
39:06
on that before we go, you obviously, enjoy coffee.
39:10
Your coffee drinker. If you are driving down the
39:14
road, you may be, you pass. Multiple multiple Falls and you
39:18
see a random coffee cart on the side of the road?
39:20
What are you? Ordering what are you going to
39:22
drink for yourself? Americanos, I'm an Americano
39:27
guy. That's kind of what we my wife
39:29
and I drink here at the house. We wake up in the morning and I
39:33
have a nice little espresso machine.
39:35
That was my going-away gift, from doppio my incentive to give
39:38
that up. And yeah I do enjoy a latte or
39:44
cappuccino, you know, on the weekend or later in the day,
39:47
perhaps. But for the most part, I'm I'm
39:51
drinking americanos, which is a funny old story.
39:54
Do you know the story of why they're called americanos?
39:56
I think I do. But I'm open to hearing it
39:59
again. Yeah.
40:00
Maybe you can verify that this is correct, but the gis that
40:05
were stationed over in Italy during WWII were being given
40:10
espresso. And they thought that that was
40:13
way too strong and they just wanted coffee.
40:15
And so they're like, well let's just water it down for you and
40:19
we'll just add a shot to a bunch of hot water.
40:21
ER, and then you can drink it, like your coffee and that's
40:25
where the name Americano came from.
40:27
That's what I have heard. But I've also heard as an
40:30
extension of that that there are arguments about whether the hot
40:33
water goes in the cup first, or the espresso goes in the cup
40:36
first and people are passionate and particular, I know I asked a
40:41
little bit before, but just to double-check anything that I
40:44
missed today that you wanted to share.
40:47
Probably the funnest thing, I'll say two things.
40:51
The the funnest thing that has come out of, this is this
40:56
roaster does an amazing job with nuts.
41:00
So I've been roasting hazelnuts and cashews on this roaster that
41:04
have found huge fans and thinking about or wondering, you
41:11
know, how I can turn that into kind of a side business and of
41:15
course focusing more on Selling the roasters to the nut Growers.
41:19
You know we have a pretty big hazelnut growing community in
41:23
Oregon. It's the second largest hazelnut
41:26
producing area in the world after turkey.
41:29
That's been really fun to just you know roast nuts on this
41:33
thing. They're just been been
41:35
mind-blowing Lee good without any salt or sugar or anything
41:38
you just roast them in there and it just brings them to life and
41:41
in a really good way. The other thing I'd like to
41:43
share is what's coming up for us for The sca Expo that's going to
41:48
be. In Portland, in April, we are
41:51
going to have a booth there. Again, will have a 10 by 20
41:53
booth that will be displaying at will have a roaster there for
41:57
that. And then we're also planning an
41:59
off-site event, that will be a few blocks.
42:02
Hopefully from the convention center where we're going to be
42:05
able to roast and do a demo on an A, on one of our Roasters
42:10
that's actually hooked up and and roasting coffee.
42:13
You know, we can't really see that in the Ian Center, you're
42:17
not able to roast in there and so I'm really excited to be
42:22
hopefully we're partnering with crop stir and with Vortex to to
42:26
arrange this event at a roasting Co-op and that's going to be our
42:30
first opportunity to really get out and have people have the the
42:34
face-to-face contact to The Roaster watching an operation.
42:37
Try the coffee's that are that are coming out of it, watch how
42:41
the automation, you know, does the work for them, just kind of
42:44
having that ability to demonstrate that.
42:47
Is something I'm really looking forward to and it was probably
42:50
one of the hardest parts about getting through covid is not
42:54
being able to demo the machine and not being able to show
42:57
people, you know, come to my shop.
43:00
Let's look at it and nothing. That's, you know, one of the
43:04
tougher parts of going through it, going through covid, and
43:08
weíll start, trying to start a Manufacturing Company, it's not
43:12
being able to bring people in, but having that opportunity to
43:15
expose something Think I'm really looking forward to and I
43:19
hope that the people in the Northwest especially are going
43:23
to come out to, to Portland and come by and see us.
43:27
Very cool. I believe that I will be there,
43:30
so maybe I'll get a chance to go to that demo.
43:32
Very exciting. Great to meet you and I'll keep
43:35
an eye out for bartmess nuts in the future.
43:38
And Michael, I just, I really appreciate one that you're
43:42
taking on this challenge especially taking on a
43:45
Manufacturing. In the United States, which
43:48
obviously there's been a push for in the last couple of years,
43:51
but you're actually doing it and to just for taking time to chat
43:54
with us about what you're doing, it's been great pleasure.
43:57
Thank you so much for taking the time and giving me the
43:59
opportunity to present the new civets.
44:13
Okay, to recap Hood River, Oregon is White magical think,
44:18
good coffee and beer, shoutout to free and Brewing Company and
44:21
windsurfing and waterfalls. If you happen to find yourself
44:25
in the Pacific Northwest, it is worth the detour.
44:29
Michael got into coffee while in Germany in the 1990s.
44:32
But at the time, there wasn't any reason to believe that
44:35
coffee was in his career future fast forward a bit and he buys a
44:39
young coffee shop in Hood River. That coffee shop doppio still
44:43
exists. He ran that business for years.
44:45
But in looking for an Tunity to step back from the day-to-day of
44:49
retail, which I can confirm is Relentless.
44:52
He found a new home with civets roasting machines.
44:55
It speaks to the concept of right place, right?
44:57
Time. If Michael hadn't bought a
44:59
coffee shop, that already had a relationship with the civets
45:02
family, who knows where he'd be now, where he is is as the head
45:06
of civets roasting machines which domestically manufactures,
45:10
the SRM 15 fluid bed, roaster, and that's pretty cool.
45:14
It's been updated from the original designs.
45:16
But it is based on the original civets Roasters.
45:20
Next up, for the company, is to take on the challenge of
45:22
becoming more environmentally sustainable.
45:25
And then applying that not only to their company but to their
45:27
product offerings. They're also looking into the
45:29
development of a larger 30 kg coffee roaster, which is one of
45:33
the biggest requests from their customers.
45:36
I'll share more about civets roasting machines and some not
45:39
from the show coffee content in this week's roast West Coast
45:42
newsletter, which if you don't already subscribe to can be
45:45
found on roast was Coast.com. And if you're an aspiring or
45:49
established roaster, looking to learn more about fluid bed
45:52
Roasters or how to acquire the civets SRM 15 had to civets.com.
45:58
That's SIV, eat easy.com again you can find that link and all
46:03
of these links in the podcast notes, onto some closing
46:06
business. I want to thank Barista magazine
46:08
for including roast West Coast, and the soon to drop new podcast
46:12
coffee smarter in their top four list of coffee podcasts.
46:16
You should be listening to. I'm personally stoked to be
46:19
included in that list along with the cat and Cloud podcast which
46:22
is one. I love as well.
46:24
I'll share the link to the article on roast westcoast.com
46:27
and you should know that we've already started recording.
46:30
The new show coffee smarter which only exists because
46:34
listeners, like you were asking for a podcast that focused
46:37
specifically on brewing, a better cup of coffee and having
46:41
a better coffee experience at home.
46:44
The first episode of the coffee smarter podcast.
46:46
Will be released Wednesday January 4th 2023 but you can
46:52
follow the show on Spotify Now. Search for coffee smarter and
46:55
hit the follow button so you don't miss it in your feed.
46:58
A second bonus episode of the roast West Coast coffee podcast.
47:02
Featuring Nettie, Taylor of rage and coffee and band in Oregon
47:06
will be released on Thursday this week.
47:08
So you'll definitely have new content to listen to while
47:11
getting packed for the holidays. Before I go today, I have a few
47:15
coffee industry. Runners who I depend on for
47:18
expertise and a bit of financial support.
47:20
I've been lucky that I only have to partner with Brands.
47:23
I really believe in and I feel good telling you to support,
47:26
you'll find links to these Partners in the show notes in
47:29
each newsletter, post and even on the front page of roast
47:32
westcoast.com. So a shout out and a big thank
47:36
you to Cafe litter. Most, your coffee company.
47:39
Steady-state, coffee, roasting Camp, Coffee Company, coffee
47:42
cycle, roasting ignite, Coffee Company.
47:45
Maria coffee. Porn coffee, importers zoom bar,
47:48
coffee, and tea, and Ascend Coffee Roasters.
47:51
A special shout-out to Alden Missouri, who recently left calf
47:54
a litter to turn his focus on to his own Roastery, Crossings
47:58
coffee. And thank you to everyone else
48:01
for listening and supporting this show, this episode of the
48:04
roast West Coast coffee podcast is was has been written produced
48:08
and recorded by me Ryan Walt. I hope this episode is found you
48:13
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity to make it.
48:16
Through the day, always tip your Baristas and be sure to drink.
48:20
Good coffee. I'm Ryan Walt.
48:51
And my neighbor is building something outside.
48:54
So if you hear him in the background, my bad.
48:58
Did you know that this podcast is a listener and reader
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supported creative effort? It's true.
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There are a bunch of crazy. Cool people.
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Who subscribe to the paid version of the newsletter at
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49:25
Thank you. Did you know that this podcast
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49:03
It's true. There are a bunch of crazy.
49:05
Cool people. Who subscribe to the paid
49:08
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49:10
If you've been enjoying this episode or the 125 or so that
49:14
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49:17
The podcast is always free but damned if I don't appreciate the
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subscriber roll. Thank you.