Latest / Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry / Episode 51: Reclaiming the Divine

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Episode 51: Reclaiming the Divine · Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry

• 0:00
  Greetings everyone and welcome back to another conversations with Amoda Maa
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  Hello Amoda. Hello, Kavi. So it's been a while. It's been about a month. We've been
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  away on retreat in the time since our last podcast and we're still exalting in an absolutely
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  exquisite retreat. And so now we're back and we're pressing on and here we are doing another
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  podcast. So today, we've decided we're going to do a podcast called Reclaiming the Divine.
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  Let me just read you a little bit of a rough outline that we've got and see where to go from
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  here. In this episode, I'm going to speak with Amoda about how humanity has lost the inner
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  connection with the divine and what it means to reclaim our divinity. We're going to touch on,
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  explore, hopefully all of these points, if we, if we, you know, if it works, the externalization of
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  God in religion. The collective malaise of being disconnected from the Divine and how
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  this plays itself out in relationships, society and culture. Who or what is God? How can we
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  reclaim our divinity and what difference would it make in our lives? Can the human and divine
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  be integrated in ordinary life. There's a lot to unpack here just to say we're a
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  motor and I are both on the same page today as I was out for my morning walk. The same
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  thing came to me and about how important this kind of question is and until I'm looking
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  forward to this exploration. Amoda, let's start. I think you had a kind of quote or a story
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  that you were going to share. Maybe we can start from that point and just see where it goes.
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  See where the exploration goes. Yes. So this is a short story that
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  Osho used to tell and it goes something like this.
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  A long time ago when God lived on the earth amongst the people,
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  he was often asked to help, to relieve their suffering,
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  So he would be sent prayers and requests and so on.
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  And as the population grew, so did the prayers and requests and the begging for salvation,
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  the begging for relief from suffering.
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  And so God decided to disappear, to hide, because there were too many prayers.
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  And the people looked for him and couldn't see him.
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  And when God was hiding or wanted, was looking for a place to hide, he asked a wise man,
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  "Where should I go?" "Should I go into the forest?" And hide there, the wise man said,
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  "No, don't go to the forest because the people will find you there. The forest is not far away."
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  So he said, "Perhaps I should go to the mountains and hide in the caves."
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  And the wise man said, "No, that's also not far enough.
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  The people will find you there and you will be hustled.
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  You will be burdened by their incessant prayers."
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  So God thought about it a bit more and said, "Well, maybe I should go to the highest peak,
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  the highest peak of the Himalayas and hide there. And the wise man shook his head. So then God pondered
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  a little more. He said, "Oh, well, maybe I should go to the moon." They won't find me there.
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  And the wise man said, "They will find you there too." Well, what about the furthest stars?
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  God asked and the wise man said, "That too is too close for you. They will find you there."
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  So God had a real deep contemplation and then realized, "I know. I'll hide in the one place
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  where they won't look for me, right in their hearts. So there it is.
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  And that concludes today's podcast, because in many ways that kind of says, you know,
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  the metaphor or the talk of it, you know, regardless of not its literality, you know,
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  the metaphor speaks very deeply to what we're going to talk about today, right?
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  The one place.
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  The one place where man, woman, won't think to look because God has been externalised.
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  God has been externalized as an entity, a being of higher state of consciousness, omnipresent
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  omniscient, that lives somewhere far away. And all the images that we have is of God
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  in the sky, God in heaven. So not only is it a sort of literal representation of God
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  outside of ourselves, but it's also a kind of idolatry. He, usually a he, sometimes a
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  she has become an idol to be worshipped or to be feared and therein lies the disconnect.
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  Pretty straightforward, really, and pretty simple in some ways to see, and yet it has
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  pervaded religion of all forms and all traditions for so many thousands of years.
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  Isn't it? I'm just thinking about those religions because obviously the orthodoxy of those religions,
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  let's say Catholicism, Christianity, let's just talk about those two.
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  But the more like what are they called the more fringe elements of those religions,
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  what are they called the more esoteric, the more they tend to externalise godless.
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  I believe so. I'm not an expert in theology, but my understanding. Yes, the,
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  Oh, what's it called? It's like the perennial wisdom within each tradition, which has become
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  a religion, is at its core, the same as what we'll be exploring and pointing to, which is the
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  the realization of God within, whether it's the Christian Gnostics or the, yeah, I'm not
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  a theologian.
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  But that's my understanding is that, yes, this sort of inner wisdom, the esoteric wisdom
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  of each tradition, the Sufi, the Christian and so on, is that it's just been lost.
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  we don't really need to go into why and how, but it's obvious that religion as it's passed down
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  through conventional, let's call it Christianity, conventional, any religion that we can mention.
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  even in Buddhism that that can be an issue, it has become externalised.
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  It's almost like for the masses it's externalised and then at the higher levels of it or the deeper
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  wisdom realisations of it that externalisation has seemed to be a little bit foggy, a little bit
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  kind of not really true, but you have to be immersed in whatever tradition it is to realize
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  that actually that externalization is really about something else, quite frankly, which
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  we're not going to explore together. Yeah, I mean, needless to say, it's about some element
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  of like control or disempowerment of the masses. There is a historic political element to it
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  And as we're going to explore, because to put it in a nutshell, if you separate man
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  or woman historically and contemporarily from their innate divinity, there's always going
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  to be something wrong with them.
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  There's always going to be a hole, there's always going to be a gap, there's always going
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  to be a problem.
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  Yes.
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  And therein lies the rub.
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  Yes.
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  Yes, absolutely.
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  And again, we're not particularly, that's not what we're positing here because although
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  that seems to be the case, but what we can deduce from that, whether it was something
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  if you like planned, premeditated or came about, just because that's the way civilization
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  developed what we can say and really the starting point that I would like for this conversation is that
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  because of collective, shall we call it, unconsciousness of true nature, or whatever reason,
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  individuals, the majority of individuals have forgotten true nature and identified with the
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  separate self as an ego self, as a me self, and as a me self that's defined by race,
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  by religion, by culture, by sex, by, I mean, gender, by the roles that we play in life.
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  So the formation of the ego identity has become the disconnect from true nature, which is
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  ultimately what divinity is. So even in, let's say, more spiritual or new age cultures,
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  I still see and think there is often a disconnect because the divine is not always,
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  but often seen as something still outside some higher power, some creator, creator God,
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  some creator entity, creator being or beings, ascended masters and so on, that's still an externalization.
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  And really, you know, or some kind of even some higher state of consciousness
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  that needs to be achieved, that's still an externalization.
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  So I think it plays itself out in many different ways, simply because of the mechanism of ego
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  identification.
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  So you, so you,
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  what are you saying that the over time, the ego identification, the strategy of the ego
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  as kind of, well, it was taken over the human experience in a way because it's filling the gap
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  that innate divinity would, which is true nature, would fail, would not fail, it's not the right word.
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  but I think the disconnect is the ignorance of true nature.
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  An ignorance of true nature is ignorance of God within.
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  I would say ignorance of true nature is believing you are the separate self, which is the ego
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  identification. You go the many layers of ego identity. And then that disconnects if you like,
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  I don't know if that's the right word, but it's, it's, is not in touch with, is not embodying,
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  it's true nature, which we can call divine. Although that very word is sometimes tricky.
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  Yeah, but we're using that to refer to something that is more...
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  Let's call it the oneness, the one beingness that,
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  from which everything arises, including every single individual, that's our oneness,
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  that's true nature and the ignorance of that true nature
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  is, takes place because of the identification with the ego identity. We feel separate
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  and in feeling separate, we feel different, we feel alienated, we feel
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  either that we need to belong to a certain tribe or a certain belief system or a certain
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  ideology. And those that don't belong to that are in opposition to that or are the enemy.
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  So we have the divided world, the divided psyche and the divided world, which creates
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  all the problems here in the world and within ourselves. It's the root cause of suffering.
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  So to know ourselves beyond ego identity is actually to know ourselves as the one, the one
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  beingness, which is God, but not God that is outside as a separate being, but our true Godness.
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  We can call it the divine wholeness from which we have arisen as individual entities.
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  Okay, so let's explore a little bit more about this thing like disconnection,
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  you know what it means, how does the disconnect from true nature or inner divinity? Let's just
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  use that term, we know what we mean by it. How does that show up? Where does it show up?
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  In an individuation?
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  Well, I think it's
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  accurate to say that it shows up in every...
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  In every relationship with life, every aspect of life, let's start with the self, shall we?
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  The relationship with the self, the disconnect,
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  arising from the ignorance of true nature. But we can also call it the forgetting of our innate
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  wholeness, the forgetting of our innate godness. Yeah. Okay, that's good. I like it.
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  Yeah, it shows up in the, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy enough. That's the fundamental
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  one. We can take it to the extreme, I'm not worthy enough, is the belief that I am a sinner.
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  That's right.
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  And we are back to religion, right?
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  We are back to religion.
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  We're trying to avoid religion, but we're back to religion.
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  Well yes, because it's predated.
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  Some religions, not all by any stretch, are predated, whatever that word is.
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  You know, it focuses on the fact that you've, by the very, hold on, we're going to get
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  a crack of thunder, I think, by the very fact that you've sinned before you even arrive
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  here.
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  How insane can we get?
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  That is an affirmation of our non-dividendity.
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  You've already sinned before you were born.
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  Yeah.
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  Really, the fact that you are born makes you a sinner.
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  Therefore, you have to adhere to certain rules, ethical rules, moral rules, belief-based
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  rules and so on.
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  And there we have the problem of religion.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, I just want to interrupt with that.
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  Because even in that, there is an inherent truth.
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  I don't want to cast all religion or any religion to the wolves and say it's a terrible thing.
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  Because actually, on a certain level, there's a sort of truth in it.
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  There is a sort of truth in it.
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  When we give away or lose the conditioning, runs rampant through our lives, we feel less
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  than.
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  Sin is nothing more than to miss the mark.
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  So have we sinned when we arrive?
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  Well, you know, we sinning becomes, missing the mark, becomes the very thing that you're
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  talking about.
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  Absolutely.
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  So I'm saying there is a truth in it.
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  There is a truth in every life.
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  And absolutely, and perhaps we can return to that, but suffice it to say that the distortion
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  of that truth is what has created the major disconnect, the mass disconnect, let's say,
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  the mass forgetting, you know, the mass belief that I am a separate self.
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  Yeah, so that's the relationship with the self. And then that is a problem because we suffer in
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  that we suffer in the belief that I'm not worthy, whether it's at the extreme end of believing I'm
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  a sinner according to fundamentalist beliefs, or if it's a more subtle sense of unworthiness that
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  is very common in almost all people, which causes us to strive in life, to look for love, to look
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  for success, to look for recognition in order to feel more worthy, more complete, and therein lies
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  the human condition. So the relationship with the self is a major reflection of where we have
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  sinned, where we have missed the mark. And then of course that plays out in relationships with
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  others. That's where it goes next, the relationship with others, where we, in intimate relationships,
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  it'll play itself out as needing the other to love us, needing the other to approve of us,
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  needing the other to be a certain way in order for me to feel complete and happy and so on.
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  And there we have codependency, the root of codependency. I need you to love me and so on.
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  instead of knowing our true nature, knowing our innate wholeness and letting love, if you like,
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  flow or shine from that, not from a place of need and transaction.
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  Then of course, shall I carry on? Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. So on a roll.
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  So let's keep going. I'm rolling through the human experience.
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  you know, and then we have the problem in with others, not necessarily intimate relationships,
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  but we can expand that into friendships, which is much the same, and family, which is much the
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  same really plays itself out there. And then with others in society,
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  where it plays itself out as tribalism. Yes. I thought you were going to say that.
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  I belong to this set of beliefs, whether it's political or, I don't know, it could be anything,
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  ideological or, yeah, or I belong to this club or I belong to this, whatever it might be,
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  and or this or this religion versus your religion or this nation versus your nation
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  yeah and so on and and there we have huge problems in the world of creating a divided world and
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  creating enemies out of those who have different ideologies or beliefs it becomes a problem and
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  it becomes a fight, it becomes opposition, it becomes who's right and who's wrong. And a lot of,
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  I would say unnecessary wasted energy goes into that. We call that the world.
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  That's not necessarily the world, but it's the laying out of unconscious identities.
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  God Almighty. Yes, and then we have war and then we have violence and so on.
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  One realizes the enormity of the simple actual issue, which is the loss of God on the inside.
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  the lack of God really truly on the inside.
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  You know, which means, like you were saying about tribalism and war,
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  you know, really, you know, if I
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  haven't, don't feel through direct experience,
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  my godness, God on the inside, then I feel a certain lack.
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  But I don't want to feel a certain lack, so I'm going to project that outwards and create a tribe.
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  And that tribe usually has its fundamentalist in the sense that it believes strongly in a,
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  let's say, in a God out there. But then it looks to the other and says, "And you're not that,
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  and you're not that." So it can't recognize the divinity in the other, because if we all
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  damn recognize the divinity in ourselves, ipso facto truly would have to recognize the divinity in
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  the other. And if you recognise the divinity in yourself and the divinity of the other,
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  the game is over because we've actually started to love each other instead of fear and hate each
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  other. You can still believe in something, but it's not going to drive you to killing.
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  Let's face it. That's right. That's right. It's sort of the ego identity, the separate self-identity
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  feeds on differences, feeds on righteousness, self-righteousness and other ronciousness,
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  it feeds on comparison and competition and all that goes with that position taking. So
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  the true sense of lack, the true sense of unworthiness,
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  the true sense that there's something missing in me never gets addressed,
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  because it's, like you said, it's projected outwards,
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  and therein lies the human condition. So it's powerful. It's powerful
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  to reclaim our divinity in a way that is a return, if you like, or a remembrance, or
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  a true knowing of who and what we are, which means a true knowing of who and what everyone
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  is. And everything, there's nothing separate from it. It includes the other sentience
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  sentient beings, you know, the creatures of the world, the animals and the so on, it includes
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  those. They are also not separate or excluded from this. To know that everything arises
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  out of the one is a reclamation of our divinity. So it's powerful stuff to understand what
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  the root of the problem is?
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  I think that we're in the times now where the opportunity, I don't know, maybe it is the
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  shifting of the ages or maybe something else, maybe it's just an evolutionary impulse.
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  I don't know, we don't really talk about that.
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  not our speciality, but there is an increased sense on many, many levels that this alienated
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  way of moving around the world that results in all the strategies and the things that
• 3:50
  you were talking about is actually running its course and really hasn't got anywhere
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  else to go apart from annihilation of each other, really. And that bifurcation point is over time,
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  is where we're at in so many ways. And so this awareness that we're speaking to here now,
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  is actually a conversation that goes on in many different spiritual traditions, whether they're
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  new age or not. It doesn't really matter. It's a conversation that people are asking,
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  You know, what happened? What's happened? That we could make that fundamental error so greatly
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  that God is hidden inside us and we're searching around the world to try and fill a hole that isn't
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  empty. This is a big issue. This is not a peripheral spiritual
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  conversation really. This is a conversation that is right at the very heart of the human
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  dilemma. Yes, it's not just for spiritual seekers. No, it's for everyone who
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  who is asking the question, who is however it's being expressed,
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  and has the capacity to go within, perhaps through the doorway of the heart rather than
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  the doorway of the mind, to, if you like, connect with an inner wholeness that is beyond
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  any lack beyond any circumstance, beyond any identity, to discover that who we think we
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  are is not simply on the surface, simply a circumstantial situation, a circumstantial
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  manifestation. And I think every human being has the capacity to at least touch on that
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  in some ways. Can I ask you, so you just said, not really, you know, do you mentioned that the heart
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  is almost implied that that's going to have to get involved somehow, because just on the level of
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  mind, it actually extrapolated from what you said, it's going to stay on the level of belief.
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  And that's the trouble. That's the trouble, that's running... So what does that mean for,
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  let's say, for an individual? And let's go into the... What does that mean for an individual to
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  except, let's say, or to accept the invitation that's being posited here.
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  They're large, generally speaking, we're alienated from our true nature,
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  and we've replaced that absence with a whole set of beliefs and constructs
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  with who we think we are and we strategize our way around the world. But to actually realize
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  are true in a divinity, or what you've said earlier. I can't remember that phrase that you used.
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  Natural wholeness or something. We're going to have this going to have to be a journey because
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  it can't stay simply on the level of belief. It is a journey. It's not one that can be
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  It's not a formulaic journey.
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  It's a unique journey for each individual to
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  look within and
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  ask themselves, perhaps this is a sort of primary doorway to ask themselves a question,
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  something like, do I want peace? Or do I want suffering? Yeah? I would say that most
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  people, if not all people, actually want peace. But they're the unconscious mechanisms
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  and conditioning and layers of ego and identity.
• 4:25
  Hi, Jack and distort the way that that piece is
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  attempted to be found and ends up as the opposite of that.
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  Yeah, peace, peace, peace through war.
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  Yeah, piece through my safety, through piece through my
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  rightness, piece through, you know, upholding my beliefs,
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  piece through protecting myself or defending myself. And I don't
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  mean physically, I mean, psychologically, and all of that.
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  So it's very distorted and hijacked. But if we look within,
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  if we ask ourselves, or if an individual,
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  Is ready or willing or yeah, to really go within and ask the question, then it sort
• 4:35
  of opens the door to the possibility of seeing within and within one's life.
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  Now let's call it tight fistedness is suffering, arguing with what is, is suffering, arguing
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  with oneself is suffering and that sort of opens the door to the possibility of at least
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  being willing to find out within oneself what the unclenched fist feels like and what that
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  reveals as a new way of being, which is wholeness, which is goodness, which is love. I mean,
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  it is a journey with many different aspects to it.
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  I think it, you know, what I hear you saying is that there is a kind of multi-layeredness
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  to it to you, sort of discover one layer of your resistance or one layer of your fight
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  to one layer of the clinchness and manage somehow, you know, through whatever way presents itself
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  where you find, you know, then you find another layer, you know, and yet another layer, because
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  we are multi-layered over in many ways until we get to the clear light of unity or union.
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  I like the word union until that kind of somehow rises, which is entirely natural.
• 4:47
  entirely natural. It's like we've, you know, the, what is not natural within us? Well, it's
• 4:48
  the mind mechanism that's running the entire show. So I, yes, I agree. Yeah.
• 4:49
  Yeah. And of course, if I may say, hey, we do this in the way that is possible for us
• 4:50
  through our work, through our teaching. Yeah. I mean, there are many ways that's why it's
• 4:51
  not a formulaic. So I don't think we're positing some formula or solution for humanity. I
• 4:52
  speak for each individual, yes, so we're being quite generic.
• 4:53
  Oh, I not. Come on.
• 4:54
  The way that it takes place, which is the only way that we know and what's possible is to
• 4:55
  support that journey and that inner discovery of true nature, of true wholeness, of true goodness,
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  of what actually is enough, what actually isn't tainted by not enoughness, that collapses in
• 4:57
  a division between being worthy and unworthy. That's what we do and we speak to that. That's
• 4:58
  what I speak to. So on that level, we are supporting the knowing of God through the discovery of
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  the wholeness and the ever-present nature of beingness, which is where we actually meet each other
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  at a deeper level that is beyond personality and beyond beliefs and beyond culture and beyond
• 5:01
  anything that we can define ourselves as. We touched this, I mean, we didn't just touch it,
• 5:02
  we bathed in this at the retreat, to be honest. And it was a revelation in some ways for some
• 5:03
  people. But actually, entirely natural. And that was the feedback was like, "Oh, this feels so
• 5:04
  natural and yet exquisite at the same time to actually feel it within oneself direct experience
• 5:05
  and then to recognize it in another because it's not precious to the individual and everybody was
• 5:06
  you know people having that kind of experience and that's not to say this is the way because there
• 5:07
  are so many different ways you know but it but it is to say that there has to be an unveiling
• 5:08
  yes it's an unveiling of the stuff about before it's an unveiling of the self and you see the
• 5:09
  through this unveiling, what's left? And you realize that we've turned God into a series of belief
• 5:10
  systems that take you further away from one's innate notes. This is the trick of the world.
• 5:11
  And then you realize, well, how do I find God? I was asked this on a session that I did yesterday.
• 5:12
  I am looking for God and I was stumped because all I could say was, well, you are God. What are
• 5:13
  are you looking for? It's a realization. It's not a search, external to it.
• 5:14
  One of the problems is that God has become an idea, even in spiritual circles of perfection.
• 5:15
  Therefore, I can't be God because I'm not perfect, says the individual. Yeah, my personality,
• 5:16
  a personhood with my tendencies and my life isn't perfect. So how can I be God because
• 5:17
  God has an image of perfection? Whatever that looks like, everything works out fine, it's
• 5:18
  all of a higher order, it's all perfect, it goes according to my wishes, it goes, yeah,
• 5:19
  and so on. So this creates a disconnect too. And so only awakening out of the dream of
• 5:20
  self, of me identity, can we discover what the true meaning of God is, of Godness, of
• 5:21
  our innate Godness, our innate divinity, which has nothing to do, it is perfection on some
• 5:22
  level in that there's nothing that nothing's a problem in this in this. Yeah, it doesn't
• 5:23
  need anything added to it doesn't need anything taken away from it in order to make it perfect,
• 5:24
  but it's not perfection according to the mind's idea of perfection. But it does change the way we
• 5:25
  are with ourselves, with each other, with the world, with life. And it changes the the suffering
• 5:26
  of drama and trauma and poor me and victim identity into being at one with life, which
• 5:27
  brings trust in life. However, whatever the circumstances, which we can't control, but
• 5:28
  it does put us in a, if you like, in a, in a, in a,
• 5:29
  bina, yeah, vibrational field.
• 5:30
  Yeah. And that does have an impact on, on, on our relationship with
• 5:31
  ourselves and our relationship with everything and all of life.
• 5:32
  That's what I call divinity.
• 5:33
  It's not divinity in the sense of being a light being and being,
• 5:34
  you know, perfect and having superpowers or having a perfect life for any of that. It's very human,
• 5:35
  but it's human on a whole other level of wholeness than what we see collectively or what we see even
• 5:36
  individually in our own lives prior to awakening to true nature. Yeah, so it's powerful, but yeah,
• 5:37
  each person has to go on their own journey with it.
• 5:38
  I think, you know, some of just picking up on what some of what you said is the idea of innocence,
• 5:39
  for instance, because I believe, you know, the idea of innocence, not the idea of innocence,
• 5:40
  but innocence, yeah, is inherent in what you're talking about. It's actually not something that
• 5:41
  that can be lost is something that is inherent to us. It is our divinity, is our God nature,
• 5:42
  and it is covered over through the issues of wounding and trauma and belief systems.
• 5:43
  And that goes straight to the heart of what you're talking about with the imperfection.
• 5:44
  the imperfection of us and we believe that and that's reinforced by religions and reinforced by
• 5:45
  culture and reinforced by all these things. And yet, some of the most powerful poems, for instance,
• 5:46
  that I've written point directly to the fact that despite the fact that you might feel unworthy,
• 5:47
  despite the fact that you might feel imperfect, despite the fact that you might feel flawed,
• 5:48
  when you really take apart those beliefs, what do you find underneath them? You find union,
• 5:49
  you find wholeness, you find innocence, you find worthiness that has nothing to do with ego,
• 5:50
  nothing to do with being taken away or added to. That's kind of what you're talking about. And
• 5:51
  therein lies a great revelation, I think. Yes, and that speaks to the same
• 5:52
  as looking for God externally, the looking, if we bring it right into the individual experience,
• 5:53
  looking for perfection externally, we could say that the personhood, the personality, the body,
• 5:54
  mind, system, the way it looks, the way it acts, the way it, you know, whatever tendencies it has,
• 5:55
  is actually on the surface. Yeah, it's the vehicle, if you like, or the vessel. And looking for
• 5:56
  perfection in that is the wrong direction. They're still looking outwards. Yeah. How can I fix myself?
• 5:57
  How can I heal myself? How can I perfect myself? How can I be a better person or whatever it might be?
• 5:58
  And actually, the call, the necessity is always to go in and in and in, and in to the place where
• 5:59
  there is no person, to the inner space, which is really the inner space of awareness, the inner
• 6:00
  space of consciousness, because that's where it is. That is the light, that is the divinity.
• 6:01
  And so it really is a going within deeper and deeper.
• 6:02
  As Jesus said, the kingdom of heaven is within.
• 6:03
  It's also, I mean, it's been said many times.
• 6:04
  It's like, you know, the other roomy poem that I can't remember,
• 6:05
  but it's, but it's like, you know, going out, searching, searching for the goal.
• 6:06
  I think even Gangaji talked about it.
• 6:07
  somebody, you know, like the gold, while going around the world, you know, searching for gold,
• 6:08
  searching for gold, and eventually got so exhausted they went home. And it was in their back garden.
• 6:09
  That's the metaphor. Yeah, the treasure is always within. It's like, you're knocking from the inside.
• 6:10
  And that is a powerful realization to realize, and some of this is just inevitable. You do search
• 6:11
  the world until the world points you within because you run out of options and that's what our
• 6:12
  show was pointing to in a way. You're going to search in the Himalayas. That's okay. You're
• 6:13
  going to search on top of the mountain and by the time Elon Musk gets us to Mars,
• 6:14
  we're going to search on Mars and there's not going to be a god there. And eventually,
• 6:15
  we're going to get so tired of it that we're going to go in and say, oh, oh, you know,
• 6:16
  Sure. I mean, that's it.
• 6:17
  Yeah.
• 6:18
  There's a metaphor that speaks to me to a certain extent in that as well as being, you know,
• 6:19
  the metaphor of being banished from the garden holds some of that imagery.
• 6:20
  As soon as we ate from the tree of knowledge, yeah, and we got lost in thought, we got lost
• 6:21
  in emotion, we got lost in guilt, we got lost in shame.
• 6:22
  And we were banished from the garden kind of thing and we have to atone for our sins
• 6:23
  and we have to wander the earth, you know, desperately looking for that which we feel
• 6:24
  that we've lost.
• 6:25
  But in many ways, you know, that we didn't leave the garden.
• 6:26
  It was a thought.
• 6:27
  It was an error of thought, which is sin.
• 6:28
  You know, there is no garden that we've actually left.
• 6:29
  Union is right here right now, right?
• 6:30
  Yes.
• 6:31
  Yes.
• 6:32
  Well, you know what I think in conclusion with this, to this, to this conversation is
• 6:33
  I'll invite you to, you know, just to offer something.
• 6:34
  Yeah.
• 6:35
  Some, some, some, something that people can use.
• 6:36
  Yeah.
• 6:37
  Some way in that might be useful to people.
• 6:38
  Yeah.
• 6:39
  On the, on their individual journey.
• 6:40
  Okay, yes.
• 6:41
  Something that is very simple and accessible to every individual that really yearns for
• 6:42
  peace, really yearns, whether they call it divinity or God or anything else, just the
• 6:43
  simplicity of peace, which is our innate wholeness, the peace that can only be found within, that's
• 6:44
  where it starts, not looking for it externally in circumstances or belief systems or whatever,
• 6:45
  or actions, but really going within, which is the only place it can start, is to have a moment
• 6:46
  a practice, let's say, of a moment or a few moments during the day and it's good to perhaps
• 6:47
  decide what those moments are. I would say either on awakening in the morning, although
• 6:48
  sometimes that can be a busy time, but just before you go to sleep even, just before going
• 6:49
  to bed or when you're in bed, before you actually go to sleep before you lie down completely
• 6:50
  or even when you're lying down to have some moments of doing nothing. No reading, no cell phones, no iPads, really doing nothing.
• 6:51
  I mean, just for five minutes is a beginning. Five minutes of doing nothing, being still, being quiet.
• 6:52
  We don't even have to formalize it as meditation.
• 6:53
  Forget about meditation.
• 6:54
  Just be quiet.
• 6:55
  Be still.
• 6:56
  I used to offer this to my mother because she was very agitated.
• 6:57
  She did respond to it.
• 6:58
  She responded.
• 6:59
  She was very agitated in her mind.
• 7:00
  She was constantly doing and worried and anxious and she knew that I was meditating at the
• 7:01
  time for many years.
• 7:02
  she wanted to do what I did, but it was out of reach for her.
• 7:03
  And I taught her, or maybe not taught her,
• 7:04
  but I showed her the way to just sit and do nothing.
• 7:05
  And she responded.
• 7:06
  And there was such peace in her that, you know,
• 7:07
  it was like, wow, she said, is this it?
• 7:08
  Is this what it is?
• 7:09
  And that was very moving and touching to me.
• 7:10
  So I know it's accessible even in the most,
• 7:11
  agitated mind. Just for a few minutes, that's all it is. To connect maybe with the breath,
• 7:12
  to just bring attention to the rise and fall of the breath and do nothing. Do nothing.
• 7:13
  Just be still, be quiet. And for a moment, peace will reveal itself. If you recognise,
• 7:14
  the problem is that that gets overlooked. Oh, well, that doesn't, that isn't anything.
• 7:15
  not even recognised as the doorway to that which we're speaking of, which is peace, which
• 7:16
  is goodness, which is in our wholeness. But if you recognise it as that and really honour
• 7:17
  it and sense its true nourishment, even for those few moments or one moment, that opens
• 7:18
  the door. So it's very nourishing to the whole being. The body will be nourished by that. The
• 7:19
  emotional body, the physical body, the mental body, the soul will be nourished by that.
• 7:20
  This is the beginning of just going within. This is the beginning of peace. And if you want to take
• 7:21
  it further, then set yourself several times in the day. That's more valuable than trying to sit
• 7:22
  in meditation, if you're not familiar with that for 40 minutes or whatever, just a few
• 7:23
  moments in the morning, in a noon in the afternoon, just set yourself a time, literally a few
• 7:24
  minutes, that's all it takes. It's like finding the space within, recognizing the space within.
• 7:25
  I think left to our own devices, so to speak. It's actually quite hard to get to that, which
• 7:26
  is why we've sort of formalized it into meditation. But actually, I think what you're talking to,
• 7:27
  it's almost like, and we've talked about this before, a kind of prayerfulness without any prayer.
• 7:28
  Yeah, that's silent kind of, you know, going within. It doesn't have to be anything. No
• 7:29
  piousness, no belief, no striving, no struggle, but simply the invitation, like you say, to
• 7:30
  rest. It's a deep rest, isn't it? It's deep rest. And what are we resting in? We're resting
• 7:31
  in the silence. We're resting in the stillness. We're resting in the wholeness and completeness
• 7:32
  of this eternal moment which is God. That's Godness.
• 7:33
  That's right. Yeah. So that's the invitation to court that. In my language, one can court that.
• 7:34
  Invite it. Yeah, of course.
• 7:35
  You invite it in. Yeah. Okay, that's, that's, I think that's a beautiful place to end the podcast for today.
• 7:36
  So thank you very much for listening.
• 7:37
  Share this please if you're moved to do it.
• 7:38
  Thank you so much, Amoda
• 7:39
  We'll see you again as soon as we can for another episode of Conversations with Amoda
• 7:40
  Mar.
• 7:41
  And until then, Namaste.
• 7:42
  Namaste.