Latest / Identity at the Center / #165 - 2022 Gartner IAM Summit - Jaime Lewis-Gross with Saviynt

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#165 - 2022 Gartner IAM Summit - Jaime Lewis-Gross with Saviynt · Identity at the Center

0:09
You're listening to the identity of the center podcast.
0:12
This is a show that talks about identity and access management
0:15
and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
0:18
started. Welcome to the identity of the
0:24
center podcast I'm Jeff. And that's Jim.
0:26
Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself.
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I think we have an issue with temperature control.
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I don't feel like there's an issue at all.
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Fill. It feels crazy your way
0:37
sometimes. This is happening.
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There are certain non-negotiables 665 degrees in
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York. It's, I'm looking at the
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thermostat 66 degrees in here. It's like an icebox in here.
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It's nice. This is cool.
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This is like, you're going to write your user me out of here.
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Well, I've got a lot of technology in here, you know, we
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have to keep it cool. To make sure that things are
1:00
operating at a consistence level.
1:03
Here's something most people probably don't know about.
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You is, you're pretty environmental Jeff.
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It's 110 degrees outside and in her room is like 66.
1:12
Yeah. And there's three air
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conditioners in this week. By the way, there's three
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different thermostats and I have them all set to 66 because I
1:19
need to be cool and I have my fan running here next to me.
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I've spoken my piece. All right, so we're here at the
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Gartner. I am Summit AT a lot of
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different conversations with very cool people in the
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industry. Our next one is no different.
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It's with Jamie Lewis grow. She's the vice president
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Solutions engineering and strategy with sabian's.
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She's also a great friend and family of the program welcome
1:45
back. Jamie thank you for having me.
1:48
This is fun. Yeah so this is the original I
1:51
think not original I was I was probably the add-on but the
1:54
strategy team for identity strategy team.
1:57
Exactly. So it's been a little bit of
1:59
like a homecoming. I think for a lots of the former
2:02
ident rope Ian's that have been a Shore House.
2:04
We've done like different areas but the three of us were the
2:07
strategy team for Gartner. We were we developed a strategy
2:13
and roadmap for Gardner the. I think that the Eternal
2:16
identity and access management but there's still something to
2:18
be proud of. I'm not sure if we can say that
2:20
but we just did some. You just said that due to
2:22
limitations have maybe a elapsed, it was probably for
2:26
what five years ago, maybe roughly.
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But yeah, kind of a cool little feather and all of our campuses
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like hey thanks. So who did Gartner go to to
2:34
create their? I am strategy.
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Oh, they went to Jamie Jim and Geoff.
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Yes! Lord.
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Remember, people used to say you have to have the first initial J
2:44
to work at your company. He had also Jeff Chang and a few
2:48
others. Anyway, we digress.
2:51
All right, let's get back. Let's get, let's get on top.
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Let's get to it. Yeah, let's talk identity.
2:55
So Jamie, how's the conference going so far for the conference
2:59
is going? Well, there's a lot of energy.
3:03
It's certainly keeping us busy. There's a lot of people wanting
3:07
to talk to us in the booth. So, it's exciting.
3:11
We get to, you know, tell customers about the benefits of
3:16
our organization. How to solve?
3:19
Business problems and just a lot a lot happening.
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I did notice that your booth had a lot of foot traffic, so I'm
3:28
trying to have you been spending at the booth?
3:30
First going on, striking up conversations with people?
3:33
I would say 90% of my time has been striking up conversations
3:38
in the booth in the booth. Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean, I
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think, you know, I fantasize everybody is like, pretty open
3:46
to, you know, conversations like Sit down with some folks today
3:51
at breakfast. And one of the people was
3:54
wearing a shirt with the little Hershey's kiss on his, they do
3:57
you work for her. She's as like, ya know, just the
4:00
fan did, you know our shirts? I hope you saw.
4:03
I'm pretty sure I saw you. You have like a t-shirt shaped
4:06
like beer, koozie. We have beer cozy.
4:08
Yeah, that's cool. Beer koozies for the Beer Garden
4:10
tonight, but no, the, I know Pam shirts and I know, Pam to mmm.
4:16
Yeah, mmm. You should check them out,
4:18
right? Thank you.
4:19
Each need a shirt. I'm sure we'll stop by get.
4:22
Get some get some right? That's the one thing I haven't
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done yet is go really through the vendor home or the expo
4:27
hall, whatever we're calling it. And actually, like talk with a
4:29
vendor's, I feel like I've just been working the whole time and
4:33
not only had a chance to like, actually explore and talk with
4:35
some of the vendors out there, I was hanging out the one Cosmos
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one Cosmos Booth. I can say that one Cosmos booth
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for like five minutes and I saw there's people who go around
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from Booth to Booth who just yeah.
4:49
My badge so I can get this way. Although swaggered of the you
4:53
have and throw them bag so I know why do they want to carry
4:56
all those home? I don't I just don't know what
5:00
were no. I mean early in my conference
5:02
going days I would try to get the t-shirts and you wash them
5:05
twice and then you have to throw them out because they fall
5:09
apart. Not that savings t-shirts like
5:11
that I'm sure they're very high quality and are very high
5:13
quality. High quality cotton gold and
5:15
platinum threads yes stuff like that.
5:19
I don't know, every conference seems to have those folks who
5:21
like to just accumulate all the stuff that is.
5:24
That is true. It's like RSA was the same way.
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I remember walking through like if you've been RSA it's at the
5:28
Moscone Center downtown San Francisco and they have this
5:31
tunnel that basically connects North and South which is
5:34
typically where they have like the Thunder halls and I remember
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walking through a couple years ago and they'll the walls were
5:40
lined with people with bags of stuff like big shopping bags to
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handers both. Hands like loaded with Just Junk
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and I'm like, okay, how are you going to get that anywhere and
5:56
it is that how is that worth anything to anyone, right?
5:59
I don't get it stress. Squeeze balls.
6:03
Yeah, when I was stupid stuff, I mean Jeff you forgot to mention.
6:06
Also we are in this luxurious Suite.
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We are 66 degrees and our friends at our SM are paying the
6:13
bill for us. So we're very appreciative of
6:16
that. They are.
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Thank you very much Artisan for keeping me cool while.
6:19
We're putting out this hot podcast.
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Yeah yes I don't think we have to pay extra for sure our
6:24
conditioning but well I we've got technically cops too.
6:28
So we trade this Cubs for t-shirts.
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That's a good trait. And icid, tumblers, we've been
6:33
given away to folks who have been appearing on VIPs, only
6:37
VIPs only, yes. And anyone else who we can get
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up here. So, let's get back to the
6:45
conference because you mentioned, you were having
6:46
conversations one of the conversations that you had was
6:49
Actually a presentation. Yes, it was a panel that you
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hosted yesterday that was called stories of cloud identity
6:55
transformation. And you had representatives from
6:58
brown-forman Wawa and Phillips 66 for folks who didn't catch it
7:03
live. I guess, what's the synopsis
7:05
from from that conversation? Yeah.
7:07
So I would say that overall theme was really about
7:11
technology using technology to enable a larger Cloud
7:16
transformation strategy. However, it's not just about
7:21
technology so it goes back to some of the principles that the
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three of us are very familiar with, as we did Consulting with
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our customers, is that it's all about policy.
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You need to nail a policy. The policy that needs to be
7:34
supported by the process, the process needs to be supported by
7:38
the data and then you have success with technology.
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So it was, it was a pretty interesting conversation.
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They came with different perspectives.
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Certainly, there is A lot of discussion around, you know, how
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do you approach moving from Legacy to Cloud, you know, to
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support those initiatives? Was there?
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Anything surprising? I'm sure you prepped for it.
8:02
But, you know, with, with the folks are on a panel but was
8:04
anything surprising? That came from a story
8:06
perspective was like, oh, I hadn't really kind of like,
8:08
thought of that or was it? Yeah.
8:10
I kind of knew what I was getting into and sort of what to
8:12
expect or maybe it was even the panel themselves were they
8:17
didn't realize really what they were getting into.
8:19
I sort of had some realizations after the fact.
8:22
Yeah, I think that what often goes on not unnoticed.
8:30
But I think what organizations don't think about is the support
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that's necessary from a multitude of various resources
8:38
to be successful. And that's something that each
8:41
of them touched on it at one point or another is, how do you
8:46
bring together the right collections of people You be
8:49
successful and whether that's to streamline onboarding, whether
8:54
it's to do data correlation, whether it's to do, clean up, it
8:58
goes back to realistic, time, schedules and how you lead your
9:06
team's through those programs because you have so many touch
9:10
points that often the often aren't thought about, I guess.
9:15
Yeah, I was also thinking is there sitting that session We
9:19
talk about those three organizations.
9:21
You measure was a brown-forman. Wow.
9:24
And while well until it's. Yeah.
9:26
So I mean, there's our organizations that were already
9:29
Big 10, 15 years ago so they've already had IM systems probably
9:35
Legacy systems that were replaced by Saving.
9:39
I'm obviously guessing right. I don't know the background,
9:41
man, but my perspective is when you're going to drop in a new
9:47
system, you have to be willing. Open-minded to change and that
9:51
change includes a, maybe the way we've been doing things is not
9:55
the way we should do them in the future for some people that's
10:00
common sense. Right?
10:01
For other people. That's like sacrilege, like
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there's no way we're to change how he on board people, right?
10:08
Ya know there's a lot of business process reframing that
10:11
has to happen. Because why Port something over
10:13
from a legacy solution into something that is going to give
10:17
you the advantage. Age of intelligence and make
10:23
suggestions to you, in terms of what users should have access to
10:27
what users shouldn't have access to.
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You know, you certainly don't want to pour it over bad
10:33
processes and bad data into a new solution.
10:36
So certainly process re-engineering and I think that
10:39
goes overlooked to, I don't think a lot of customers, spend
10:43
a lot of time realizing that there's there's work that they
10:47
need to consider as part of their Yeah, a lot of y'all to
10:53
make garbage, what do you got garbage?
10:55
Exactly this more of it, more efficient garbage, generation
10:59
minutes, you've talked a few, you know, we talked a little bit
11:02
about, I guess your role here with save Ian's, tell us about
11:06
Sabian. I think one thing that we want
11:08
to kind of bring to folks especially this week of
11:10
Gartner's, getting getting people familiar with some of the
11:12
vendors that are in this space. What a Sabian do how you guys
11:15
different from others that are that are competing in the same
11:18
area. Yeah, it's funny.
11:19
So it was roughly, I don't know, five six years ago where a sad
11:25
day oh where Jeff? And I discovered save Ian and we
11:29
were looking at the fine grain entitlements and s0d capability.
11:34
That was specific to sap. And we thought, huh?
11:38
This is interesting. They're doing something a little
11:40
bit different, it's very configurable.
11:42
There's a lot of visibility. There's a lot of orientation
11:46
around key indicators, and Health of programs.
11:51
And as we peel back the onion, we had more and more interest so
11:55
much. So that I said, I think I'm
11:56
going to go work for this company.
11:58
So here I am four years later and I think that was one aspect.
12:02
It was they were already converging you know years ago
12:07
where they started, we started with fine green entitlements
12:12
management. We realized very quickly that we
12:14
had to wrap identity governance and administration around that.
12:19
At, and then we've continued to converge from there.
12:22
So, you know, being a solution that was architected born from
12:26
the cloud. And, and it had the inherent
12:29
intelligence that, you know, these types of platforms need
12:33
were some of the, you know, very early reasons why I thought it
12:37
was going to be a pretty interesting company and and
12:40
start to shake up the industry a little bit.
12:43
Remember sitting in that demo with you and I was like, oh,
12:45
this is, this is different. This is interesting, like it Is
12:50
it showed a lot of Promise? Remember seeing it the first
12:52
time, just because of the, the approach that was being taken
12:55
with the sap rules, for example, right?
12:57
And that was a weakness that others in the space had and it's
13:01
a notoriously difficult system for any IGA vendor to really
13:05
kind of get, right? And it was, it was interesting.
13:07
It's, it's always fascinating to see, you know these, these
13:09
vendors and out there saving included, but others, you know,
13:12
playing in the same space and their evolution on the different
13:15
capabilities and I look at save Ian and I see A platform, right?
13:20
And we were talking with, we saw maida and clear skies built on a
13:25
platform, they're built on the servicenow platform, right?
13:27
So, I see this is sort of like the other side of that coin,
13:30
which is okay. We want to have our identity
13:32
system, be the platform, right? Yeah.
13:35
And we've done it in a way that it's been very organic in
13:38
nature, you know, we're our own platform, we haven't done a
13:44
number of, you know, Tech Acquisitions, but we then have
13:47
to fold into Our solution. So it's all been very natural.
13:52
We have some Visionaries, you know, in the organization and
13:56
that's what brought us to Pam, you know, needing and seeing the
14:02
the need for that single Enterprise journey and the
14:07
appropriate context that you apply to that single Enterprise
14:10
Journey. So that, you know, if you're a
14:12
regular user doing regular user things, you can do it very
14:16
easily versus if you need Need to perform something that's
14:21
administrative in nature. Well, we only want to give you
14:25
the access that you need for that moment in time and that
14:27
moment in time might be five minutes, it might be 10 minutes
14:30
and giving the visibility to ensure that whatever was done
14:34
with the access that was granted for that period of time or just
14:38
generally speaking. If you're a regular user that we
14:41
have the history you know behind it to support that Enterprise
14:45
Journey. Can you prove what you said you
14:47
did? It happened in the way.
14:49
You said it was going to happen. Rent.
14:50
Exactly, yeah. One of the things that I've
14:54
always felt when I saw saving, was that, you could really
14:59
configure the system to work the way you want.
15:02
And I think like this, why? There are so many parts, so many
15:05
products in the imc's, there's different ones that suit
15:08
different needs and different organizations wants and desires.
15:13
So my thought on the configurability is like I love
15:17
that personally. I'm like, I want It to be able
15:19
to tune the system to the way I want others want.
15:24
Like, give me the exact, you know, Simple Simon way to
15:29
configure the system, and I don't want that configurability,
15:32
but I think that as a product, or as a platform, you have to
15:37
decide which end of the spectrum.
15:39
Are we going to be on? Or we're going to try to
15:41
restrict your ability to configure the system, or we
15:44
going to enable that and it seems to me that Savings more on
15:50
the, we're going to enable you to have the system work, the way
15:53
you want. Yeah, 100%.
15:55
There's a lot of configuration capability, but there's also the
15:59
movement towards, you know, continuing to be very API
16:03
friendly as an example and the the thought around bring your
16:10
own. So now, you know, we want to
16:13
encourage customers and partners to do things like build their
16:18
own integration. Nations build their own, you
16:21
eyes and bring those things along.
16:23
So, you know, not only can you configure the 80% of the
16:28
standard capability that you might require the other 20% that
16:33
you might want to make very specific to your unique business
16:36
problems. You can bring it along with you
16:39
because we have that extensibility layer to do so.
16:43
Building your own UI that is bold because I think that's
16:47
something that normally most people would associate.
16:50
It was the identity space with more of a consumer based
16:53
approach where you've got like marketing and communication
16:56
seems everyone. I like craft the customer
16:58
experience and usually you'll see things like apis and stuff,
17:01
kind of power and things behind the scenes.
17:03
And I guess this is maybe a little bit of news to me, so you
17:05
can educate me. When you say build your own UI,
17:09
what are you talking about? So I would say that At a likely
17:13
scenario would be mostly or more along the lines of third-party
17:19
access governance. So, you know, it's not science
17:23
necessarily but you have delegated Administration and you
17:27
have diverse different business entities, different types of
17:32
third, party users. And perhaps you want to create a
17:36
very simplistic UI for the third party users.
17:42
Who are accessing your system. That's just that's one thing
17:45
that comes to mind but, you know, there's a lot of
17:49
configuration within the UI itself.
17:51
So there's not a necessity to bring your own, we just wanted
17:55
to give that extensibility to customers.
17:58
I would say, you know, Integrations are probably more
18:02
popular than say, bring your bring your own UI.
18:05
So here's the topic that Jeff and I run into a time, right?
18:09
You have the potential client where Their HR Group is saying
18:14
our HR System is for employees only, we're only going to manage
18:18
employee data yet. They have all these non-employee
18:22
users contractors Consultants guests and you as an IGA vendor
18:30
or really is like a consultant to your clients.
18:33
How do you recommend that they address that problem?
18:36
Is it manage those people in our solution or look at some other
18:41
solution created? The base.
18:43
What what is your approach to that problem?
18:47
It's often managing an hour solution, you know, we have
18:50
third party access management, so you can do the whole
18:53
cradle-to-grave full lifecycle management of those identities.
18:59
So, that's kind of the Consulting role of working with
19:03
your clients and one of the big themes here at Gartner.
19:06
This week was talking about selling and I am program within
19:11
the business rate. I think the way you know I've
19:14
referred to how Rebecca who is Talk about Bri, you know,
19:19
there's this value of I am, was, you know, we're going from
19:22
having a seat at the Kids Table to having a seat at the adults
19:25
table. I am is being taken seriously
19:28
now, right? But the way we need to
19:30
communicate the value is in terms of the business value that
19:36
I am praying, so business results.
19:40
Are you helping your clients with in terms of like expressing
19:44
that value? Explain that value?
19:46
Is that something that's in your wheelhouse or something?
19:49
They're doing ahead of time? No, it's in our wheelhouse.
19:52
I would say, oftentimes customers Focus so much on very
19:57
explicit requirements because you're talking to technology
20:02
folks. So we, it is our responsibility
20:04
as subject matter experts to take those requirements and
20:08
really understand what's at the root.
20:10
Roots of them wanting to do something in a certain manner
20:14
or, you know, supporting a particular use case.
20:18
So, you know, we always have to explain business value.
20:22
I go back to my days of Consulting, the the so, what
20:26
you're going to do this. So what, you know, what does it
20:29
mean to the business? Well, you know, if you're going
20:32
to implement, you know, Pierre analytics as part of your access
20:37
request process. The so what it is that it is
20:41
going to suggest you the appropriate access and it makes
20:45
it faster more efficient and then there's less work for your
20:49
end users and therefore they're spending less time managing
20:54
their access. So we always have to go back to
20:56
the. So what and the business value
20:58
and ensuring that you know, we have the right level of risk
21:02
balance with the right level of, you know, business process and
21:06
efficiency. Yeah.
21:07
I think that's the big partnership.
21:10
We're a technology vendor or Consulting partner can bring to
21:15
their clients has you know being able to help articulate that
21:20
message and kind of, you know, one of the thoughts.
21:24
I was also having a sure you kind of run into this.
21:27
A lot is, how do you help clients hit the ground quickly,
21:32
rather than like buying software and then kind of coming up to
21:35
me? It's like, you know, you need to
21:37
have that roadmap, you need to have that plan.
21:39
Before you, you know, execute your contract and that clock
21:44
starts ticking read the bills. Start piling up pretty quickly
21:48
and you want to get something out there in production as
21:52
quickly as possible. And reality like the scenario
21:56
where you buy the software and it becomes self-aware for your
22:00
the technology vendor doesn't want that, right?
22:03
That's it's like not like our goalie.
22:05
Hey like was like gym, memberships, like I think Jim's
22:08
like to sell memberships and The people stop dumbbell upright,
22:11
they don't show up, that's their bhisma.
22:13
I don't think that technology vendors want that, right?
22:17
We don't and in fact, we've done a lot of things to be able to
22:23
implement micro phases microprojects and six eight, ten
22:27
weeks to drive that value. So something that I think is
22:31
interesting that, you know, we do as an organization is you
22:35
know, the concepts in selling. You have mutual action plans.
22:38
So what are the steps that are required Acquired to
22:41
essentially, get a customer to buy a solution and and what we
22:45
do is we create a technology aspect of that.
22:50
What are the things that need to happen for the customer to,
22:54
truly understand the advantage of the solution?
22:58
And then break it down into little teeny, tiny Parts.
23:01
Because we're still in a situation where all the
23:03
education that we're doing is really being done through Zoom.
23:07
There's still a lot of fatigue in these, these room.
23:09
Meetings. People don't want to be in 345
23:13
our Workshop settings so we break it down into technical
23:18
action plans, so that we peel back the onion.
23:21
We really can focus in on the pain points and then we can
23:24
drive a strategy that aligns with essentially, like a quick
23:30
start approach to getting something laid down for the
23:33
customer, so that we don't take time between, you know, a
23:38
customer being on board. Added as a saving a customer and
23:41
then seeing that value. So we try to set that up in
23:45
advance through those workshops. I love that idea that what you
23:49
call it quick action plan, but like four weeks six weeks, eight
23:53
weeks of value. Give us some examples of like
23:56
what the scope of something like that might look like.
24:00
Yeah. So I would say, for example, you
24:04
know, taking some number of critical applications and Just
24:10
going back to what is your data look like.
24:12
So something that's very easy as you start with the data.
24:15
What does that mean? Well, let's look at your risky
24:21
entitlements for particular number of applications and let's
24:27
get it through a certification. Let's get the revokes in place
24:30
and let's clean up the data. So very very quick way to get a
24:36
win in eight to ten weeks. Yeah, for an organization that's
24:39
About to spend money on an IGA solution, you can be pretty sure
24:45
there's some data issues, right? There's going to be some say
24:48
it's always cobs. What I'm talking about man.
24:50
Yeah, you give me some cobwebs in that data.
24:53
So they get data cleanup exercise, where you can leverage
24:57
that investment is a fantastic idea.
25:00
You need to do the cleanup, right?
25:02
But you don't want to take six months and that's all you do,
25:06
right? So if you can kind of lay down,
25:07
some technology footprint, sir. To import that data correlated,
25:12
look for the bad stuff and maybe gate your user interface out to
25:18
some business users. Who can start to, you know,
25:22
knock out the cobwebs. Great idea.
25:25
Yeah. And a super high-value activity
25:28
is around, you know, Pam remove standing access standing
25:32
privilege. Get just-in-time laid down, you
25:35
know, for a series of users and we turn that on and get it.
25:39
Implemented for customers in six weeks.
25:41
So now you've just taken some of that privilege and
25:45
administration burden away from, you know, your classic users
25:51
that have just too much privilege.
25:54
So eliminate that very quickly. Yeah, what I'm hearing is
25:58
Jamie's going to come to your house and in six weeks all,
26:00
while your identity problem. Not going to try here, she's
26:04
gonna get in there. She should clean your data.
26:06
Everything's gonna be just in time micro phases.
26:09
Projects, build, success, build momentum.
26:12
We all want to, I'm sorry if you think that, then if you think
26:17
it's gonna all be done in six weeks, like I've got some
26:19
beachfront property in Nebraska, I've got a saw you, but you can
26:23
get stuff done. You can get stuff done.
26:25
It doesn't always have to be like this.
26:27
Gee whiz, you know, huge public facing thing.
26:30
It could be. Yeah, we got the data cleaned up
26:33
and that's a precursor and guess what the data is clean now.
26:36
Like it's going to be used other places to that could be an
26:38
example, could be a very basic Workflow to do basic onboarding
26:41
basic off-boarding. I feel like sometimes we get
26:43
lost in the grand picture that we forget to celebrate the
26:46
little lens on the way, I think. That's where the best road maps
26:49
come in is, how do you show iterative improvements, right?
26:52
Can't just go say, Hey, you go me to give me 2 million dollars
26:55
and I'll come back with a night. And I am platform in two years,
26:58
like, that's not gonna happen. Yeah, we talked about it is, get
27:00
clean. Stay clean.
27:02
Mmm. Yeah.
27:03
Well I also think that in certain situations as the I am
27:08
program manager or Of you know the practitioner, it takes some
27:14
some bold leadership, sometimes to, you know work up the chain
27:18
and say we're not going to be flipping a switch and nine
27:21
months, all of our problems aren't going to go away.
27:24
It is a matter of we're going to be running an IM program from
27:29
now. Until we both retire, we're
27:32
always going to be in this game and we're going to get
27:36
ourselves, you know, make the path to better.
27:40
But in nine months all of our problems are going to be solved.
27:43
That's sometimes hard just delivering bad news, right?
27:46
That nobody wants to hear my spending a million dollars to
27:49
get better. Well, that's that's the world we
27:52
live in. Now, there's always look the
27:54
look for guarantees, right? It's, if I give this to you, I
27:57
will never have another audit finding again.
28:00
Ya know, you're reducing the risk.
28:04
The chance of it happening, maybe, but it's not a real like
28:06
realistic expectation. Yeah.
28:09
All right. Let's And start to wrap things
28:10
up. But before we go why know that
28:12
we have Star Wars Super Fan over here next to me.
28:15
So we're going to close it on a lighter note.
28:17
I've got actually a couple, the first one.
28:21
Yes. Who or what is your favorite
28:24
Star Wars character? I know what you're going to say.
28:27
I'm going to ask you for an alternate.
28:29
I don't want rules. I mean it has to be Leia.
28:33
Okay? Every little girl loved Princess
28:37
Leia because she embodies empathy and she brings together
28:43
people for the greater good. And that's what I like to think.
28:47
I do. You still have those big buns on
28:50
the side of your when I can you can't?
28:52
I've seen the pictures. All right?
28:56
And then my My second question, still in the Star Wars Universe
28:59
you have a daughter. What order did you show her?
29:02
The Star Wars movies and obviously we started with
29:05
episode for the true first episode.
29:08
The true first episode A New Hope and then we moved on to
29:15
five and six and then we went seven, eight and nine because
29:19
one, two and three, they just don't exist.
29:21
Slow curveball here. Hmm.
29:24
I liked what I mean look I I like Star Wars.
29:27
I like them all. Sure, there were some annoying
29:29
things. Even 789 had some weird stuff
29:32
somehow Palpatine returned. This is the ladies.
29:35
Yes, piece of writing, I think I've ever heard in a major like
29:38
franchise, but I still enjoy it for what it is.
29:42
Well, I can tell you that Ray is also very well-liked in the
29:47
household. Okay.
29:48
Mhm. I would say she's a second
29:51
favorite. Okay, I can see it.
29:53
Jim favorite Star Wars character.
29:55
Captain Picard I'm not expect it boy.
30:00
There goes all of our credibility.
30:03
You've been listening to the last episode of Daredevil in
30:06
certain pockets. It's right.
30:08
It's gonna be a solo show going forward and I like to look at my
30:10
new clothes. Jamie I'm gonna go with Han Solo
30:14
just cause I always thought he was bad ass.
30:16
And, you know, any orange jumpsuit known on the orange
30:19
jumpsuit. That was the best console.
30:22
What. Yeah.
30:23
What are you talking about? We know that's wrong.
30:26
Captive card. All right, we're going to call
30:29
this one because it's gone off the rails.
30:31
Yep. We're we've gone off the tracks.
30:34
All right, thank you very much for joining.
30:37
It's good to see you again. Lovely to see you.
30:39
Another part of the family here from Identity, as far as we go,
30:43
you can find us on the web identity to center.com.
30:45
We're on Twitter at idea. See podcast.
30:47
If you want to learn more about savings and connect with, Jamie
30:52
will have Shola links in the show notes, but you can find
30:55
save Aunt, essay, Avi ynt.com and we'll go ahead and leave it
31:00
there for this week. Thanks everyone for listening
31:03
and we'll talk with everyone in the next one.
31:08
Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast.
31:11
If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and
31:14
visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.