Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 128. How To Raise Money Without Feeling Creepy - Jenna Goodman and Nancy Jackson

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128. How To Raise Money Without Feeling Creepy - Jenna Goodman and Nancy Jackson · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm john.
• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: And I'm Becky. And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:06
  Becky Endicott: nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started.
• 0:36
  Becky Endicott: Welcome, welcome, Becky. You know everything that you've ever heard about people from Kansas,
• 0:41
  Jonathan McCoy: what is that
• 0:42
  Becky Endicott: they are the nicest kindness like Dorothy and salt of the earth. I'm telling you, Dorothy, set the bar for like the kindness, kindness and most empathetic individuals. We are here to tell you that we have the two most extraordinarily kind, and incredible professionals development professionals on the podcast today, we were blessed to be able to get to meet the generous change folks a couple weeks ago, and Jenna and Nancy are as awesome as humans come and we are so delighted to have them on the podcast. Today, we're going to talk about how to raise money without feeling creepy.
• 1:19
  Jonathan McCoy: I love this topic. I do
• 1:21
  Becky Endicott: too. And every single one of us in development have questioned this at some point about how do I not go in and feel like I'm being manipulative or that I'm not being my true authentic selves.
• 1:32
  Becky Endicott: And I absolutely love that we are going to hit this head on.
• 1:35
  Becky Endicott: So if you had any imposter syndrome, Jenna and Nancy are going to take it away from you today. So I want to give a little bit of background about their company generous change, which is we're obsessed with the logos really great. So but a generous change. This is their comment, we are obsessed with helping you raise more money to change the world. Such a great tag so awesome. So Jenna, Nancy bring a combined 30 years of fundraising experience. And they have personally raised over $70 million for arts for education, and environment as staff and volunteers. They have led virtual and in person workshops for universities, community foundations and nonprofits across the country. And they're really just providing fundraisers, and volunteers with the tactical tools that are simple and actionable. In strategies that are fun and inspirational to help you find new ways to raise more money.
• 2:29
  Becky Endicott: And if you go to their website, I'm just going to tell you, it's generous, changed calm. It is the most joyful website and you feel like you know them or that you want to know them. And so we're about to have a joyful conversation, Jen and Nancy, welcome to the podcast. We're so glad you're here. Thank you. So good to be here. Oh my gosh, their smile. So huge.
• 2:55
  Jenna Goodman: It's so great. If you could just follow us all over the planet and introduce us every single time we go anywhere.
• 3:05
  Becky Endicott: We are far away.
• 3:05
  Becky Endicott: So we we will absolutely do that. And we will bring a megaphone. So everybody knows how great you guys are. But, you know, I think all of us have just worked with consultants for years. And I just think that you guys are the disruptive consultants, you're incredibly kind, you know your stuff. And you come at it in a way that just feels so collaborative and groundbreaking. And so I'm really excited to dive into this conversation. But I would really love to know just your background and your story, what led you to where you are today.
• 3:35
  Becky Endicott: And Jen, I'll start with you.
• 3:38
  Jenna Goodman: Thank you so much, Becky. Seriously, Becky and john, thank you for having us. We're so excited to be here.
• 3:43
  Jenna Goodman: And we have a mutual love of you all to the minute we found you.
• 3:48
  Jenna Goodman: We felt the same way about your website and in your podcast. And so we're it's a it's a mutual love affair we're sharing today.
• 3:56
  Becky Endicott: I love it too
• 3:57
  Jonathan McCoy: much. Thank you.
• 3:59
  Jenna Goodman: So the background a little bit about just me in general, I totally fell into fundraising, which I think so many of us do. I actually had a small little drive thru coffee shop that I bought when I was in college, just you know, really not following my my path. My major in college was broadcasting. So today, I'm all in we're doing it doing my major which makes me so happy. After five years of running the coffee shop, we were ready to sell my husband and I had it together and I had customers who were part of my alma mater at the university that I went to. It was central Missouri State at the time. It's University of Central Missouri now in warrensburg. And they recruited me to apply for a development position and I had zero idea what development meant. And I was even in the job description.
• 4:54
  Jenna Goodman: You know, they don't say anything about asking for money.
• 4:57
  Jenna Goodman: I wasn't until the interview that I actually figured out Oh, development is asking people for money. And I got the job. And I learned as I went, and it was wonderful. I had a great Dean that I was working with. And then I was ready to move. And I ended up coming to the University of Kansas, in Lawrence, Kansas, which is where I am today. And I started working with Nancy, my fabulous partner, and I will let Nancy share her background.
• 5:32
  Nancy Jackson: Yeah. And so I had a circuitous path, as Jenna said, like, I think so many of us do in nonprofits in general, and particularly those who end up doing a lot of fundraising, because it's almost always by accident as genocide. And so I actually spent a decade in scholarly publishing, which was really phenomenal practice, actually, for the nonprofit world, because it was trying to take complex ideas that tended to get kind of abstract, and then pull them down to ground and make them palatable, exciting. compelling, right. And so I spent 10 years doing that nonprofit. And then I led my own nonprofit, I created a nonprofit called the climate and energy project. So as you might imagine, in the mid 2000s, talking about climate change in the fabulous state of Kansas, was a huge undertaking, and many people hated me, initially, but not eventually. Because what I had learned was how to have really amazing conversations with people about things that matter to us both right? So creating common ground on the way to a better future, which was phenomenal. And then I went back to my alma mater, the University of Kansas, and was lucky enough to land on the same team with Jenna, where we raised a kajillion dollars and had a pretty amazing time. And what we realized in doing all of that, was that we were working with many, many people, professional fundraisers who'd never been taught to do the thing that they were doing, and neither had we.
• 7:12
  Nancy Jackson: And as managers, we were interacting with folks and feeling like, Oh, my gosh, how have we so underserved, these amazing mission driven people, so that they are feeling creepy, so that they're feeling apologetic? So that they're struggling with? What do I say, when I sit down with the donor?
• 7:29
  Nancy Jackson: How do I even get the door open.
• 7:29
  Nancy Jackson: And we realized that there just weren't enough tools to help professional fundraisers and nonprofit leaders who never meant to be fundraisers like me, when I was an executive director, you know, you go into nonprofit work, not so you can raise money. But you have to raise money to be able to do the work. So that is really kind of the gap that we saw, and why we create a generous change.
• 7:58
  Becky Endicott: I just have to say that you had me at coffee and climate. I mean, those are like two of our passions. But Nancy, you are spot on. And I think the reason that these that all of our friends in development PS, can we get the name change, because it doesn't say what we're doing and also nonprofit, yes, both of them.
• 8:19
  Becky Endicott: But it's also because of what Jenna said, We fell, we tripped into development, without any training without any background.
• 8:27
  Becky Endicott: And we are literally riding the bike while we're building it.
• 8:31
  Becky Endicott: And so I'm just here to say that, you know, we think that education is the key to changing our sector. And we don't look at other educators as competitors ever you guys feel like our partners in this. And I'm just here to say that Nancy and Jenna have such good classes. And if you love what they just said, There hold on to your backside, because it's about to get even better.
• 9:32
  Jonathan McCoy: And I want to put a pin in this too, because I love hearing everybody's story of how you tripped into fundraising. But I just think it speaks to that we need creative energy from all sides of things.
• 9:41
  Jonathan McCoy: Because these are the people that come to the table. I think if you get the passion to change the world, you can change the world like you can help us with the framework. We're not doing brain surgery or something, we can use a framework and channel our passion to accomplish these huge missions. So I just love that y'all found each other and that y'all are just buddies making this happen. So let's dive into this topic. So I love that y'all frame this of how to raise money without feeling creepy. Because I do think that's the bet. I know the first time that I was in a position to ask for money. You just feel this sinking feeling. fear comes over you. Could you kind of talk us through your framework. And yeah, let's start at like the intimidation point. If you're just starting this your first ask or maybe your first assignment, where do you start with somebody and either one of y'all can take them.
• 10:29
  Jenna Goodman: Yeah, john, I think that I felt that same fear. You know, Even interviewing and figuring out that that my first development position meant asking for money.
• 10:41
  Jenna Goodman: Even though I thought, I can totally do this, because I can sell grumpy people coffee in the morning.
• 10:49
  Becky Endicott: The world is your oyster.
• 10:51
  Jenna Goodman: Yeah. You know, I loved I had a great experience at my alma mater, I felt like I could talk about it with some excitement and passion. But when it came to actually asking someone to give money, it's terrifying. And that, that it's all those feelings of the like rumbling in your stomach, and it's everything is stuck in your throat, and you're sweating, and you just feel uncomfortable, because we were all taught that talking about money is not okay.
• 11:21
  Jenna Goodman: It's not proper, it's just not something you do. And so, to get over this, is really hard. But we do think that there are four fundamentals to not feeling creepy about raising money. And the first one is super simple, it's just have a conversation, have a conversation is, and to me, this changed everything.
• 11:45
  Jenna Goodman: Because when I went into these, these conversations, these, you know, discussions with someone, in the beginning, I felt like I was supposed to have an elevator pitch, I was supposed to have a spiel, and I was supposed to be like a salesperson. And I had to kind of walk through my spiel.
• 12:07
  Jenna Goodman: And when I learned that, that was not at all what I needed, what I needed was just to be an authentic human me who I was sitting and listening to another authentic human being who they are, and asking great questions to understand. What's the change they want to make in the world?
• 12:26
  Jenna Goodman: Who are they? How do they want to make a difference in the world? Because that's the heart of fundraising is just understanding does this person care about the same thing I care about? Do they care enough to make a gift? Do they want to make the same change that my nonprofit is making, and that change everything? For me, this is just it's having a conversation, a heart to heart with another human.
• 12:52
  Becky Endicott: Okay, I love that so much. And it's so funny to me that that is disruptive, right? Because if you think about walking into someone who has a major gift prospect for your organization, there is a very high likelihood that that individual is also a major good prospect for a million other nonprofits. And so if they're all walking in with their elevator speech, and they're pitching the mission, and they're not just looking you in the eye and saying, what are your values? what is important to you and your family, your company, whatever, however they're giving, that creates a human connection. And immediately they are disarmed, because they're talking about the things that matter to them.
• 13:35
  Becky Endicott: And all of a sudden the conversation is about them and not about your mission. And what a great starting point.
• 13:41
  Becky Endicott: Brilliant,
• 13:42
  Nancy Jackson: Becky, that is.
• 13:42
  Nancy Jackson: That is exactly it. And I feel like for myself, when I started fundraising exactly, as Jenna said, we were actually to the extent we were taught anything, it was to have kind of an elevator pitch. And that just exacerbated this feeling that what I was supposed to be doing was educating someone into making their gift. Right? So exactly, as you just said, Becky, that's what everybody's doing. Everybody's walking in saying you should you have a nice, lovely, amazing donor should give, because we're doing these things, right. And that's kind of it's it's the wrong presumption, it's the wrong place to start. So if you go back to what Jenna said, and walk in, ready to listen, curious thinking about what is it that this amazing, wonderful, generous donor wants to do?
• 14:31
  Nancy Jackson: Where is our shared cause?
• 14:36
  Nancy Jackson: Right? Then you can know how to present your work in the most compelling way. And I think most of us because smart people work in nonprofits, and smart well educated people making amazing change in the world feel like they want to tell you how it is right. And so we all tend to favor kind of an academic style of writing, and a kind of an interchange that's about facts and figures. Because again, we feel like we're educating, right. So what we don't always do as great a job in is really helping the person that we're talking to fully understand and imagine the before and after, with their gift in between.
• 15:19
  Nancy Jackson: Right. So this is the second principle, the kind of fundamental of fundraising that we really work on is people remember stories much better and relate to them right much better than facts and figures. It's our heart that moves us together.
• 15:34
  Nancy Jackson: The vast majority of the time.
• 15:34
  Nancy Jackson: So in order to get there, instead of just citing facts and figures, if we can tell the before, here's what can't happen today, right? So in a food pantry example, you know, a family is really afraid that they're not going to be able to put food on the table for their children because of something that's happened, right. And the food pantry allows them not only to shop with dignity, right, but to be part of classes that teach them how to make use of some of the fresh foods that they're getting. There's some community element to it, right. And so what you're able to do is tell the story of here's what it was before. And here's what it is after. And you donor are the hero that can make this happen.
• 16:24
  Nancy Jackson: That can help us go from before to after, that's a different kind of conversation.
• 16:28
  Jonathan McCoy: And I think I love that you use this word, this has come up this value has come up in a conversation before but use the word dignity. Yeah.
• 16:33
  Jonathan McCoy: And I think that if that is a value of your donor, talking about that aspect is like how else can you live, you know, if you that, in our society can even land this, but I love that you went there, because that's what it's all about. That's when you have these in depth conversations, because you understand at the core, what's going to connect and not to play them, but to just understand which aspect is going to be meaningful to them?
• 17:01
  Nancy Jackson: Yes, absolutely.
• 17:01
  Nancy Jackson: And john, I think what we tend to do is to say, we do the McDonald's version of fundraising. Remember, when McDonald's used to have the sign that said over a billion hamburgers served,
• 17:11
  Jonathan McCoy: it was like a changeable number, right?
• 17:14
  Nancy Jackson: To say, you know, over 100 families fed, for the food pantry example that's meaningful, for sure. But when you tell the story that gets to the why of this, and the difference that it makes in human lives, which is dignity, which is safety, which is comfort, which is you know, release from panic, as a parent, those things are the things that actually make the donor feel like, Oh, that's what I want to do. Right? It's a different,
• 17:42
  Jonathan McCoy: it's a different a different level, like on at a transactional level. But a transformational level, like that speaks much deeper to the core of what I want to do. Yeah.
• 17:50
  Becky Endicott: And I also just think that by taking that approach, you have all of a sudden created a visual for your donor, to see your person to see the people that you are serving, and when you walk out the door, and perhaps you've left the brochure, the packet of materials behind but I would have to think that if that individual is sitting there thinking about a single mom who has lost her job, and she is struggling, and you talk about we're not just providing her food, we're trying to get her back up on her feet. We're doing this training, I if you walk out my door, after you've told me that story, she's who I'm picturing. And all I keep thinking is I want to help her, I don't want her to feel like that she is less than that she should feel any shame in this, I want her to only feel buoyed.
• 18:42
  Becky Endicott: And that is going to be way more powerful than saying, We serve this many families and this much food came in and we had this I mean, it just doesn't tell the same story. So thank you so much for threading storytelling into this. I can't wait to hear what number three is.
• 19:00
  Jenna Goodman: Yes, Becky. So it leads straight to number three, everything you said, builds to ask unapologetically. And because you are making amazing change happen, your nonprofit is doing amazing things in the world. You don't have to be sorry about that. You shouldn't be sorry about that. It takes money to make that change. And that's just the truth. And there are people in the world who want to give money to make more change. Your goal is just to find those people. So you're not twisting arms, you're not being a creepy salesperson, you're just finding your people, you're discovering whether or not they're your person, and they want to make the same change that you want to make. And then you're honoring them by asking, instead of, you know, kind of sitting back and thinking, Oh, is this person ever going to do this? I'm scared to ask I can't.
• 19:59
  Jenna Goodman: It's an actual honor to be asked to help to make a difference in the world. And so asking, unapologetically, it's so critical to not be sorry for what you're doing out in the world and to go out and say it just like you said, Becky with leaving these stories and experiences with people so that they clearly understand why they're giving and who they're helping when they give and then you don't have to be sorry about that. There's no reason to be apologetic. You ask unapologetically.
• 20:33
  Becky Endicott: Okay. don't want anybody to miss this. But what Jenna and Nancy are saying here is a complete mindset shift.
• 20:42
  Becky Endicott: Instead of walking into these interviews with shame and trepidation, it's almost like your mission is your armor. And we are so proud and emboldened to be able to do this work. And I am guaranteeing you anyone who is listening to this episode, and probably any one of us having this discussion, how many times have you met people in your life who asked what you do, and you say, I'm a fundraiser and they cringe. And then they say, the next obvious thing that always comes, Oh, my gosh, I could never ask anybody for money. But my response was always, it is my joy. To be able to do this, I had a completely different mindset into what I was doing, I felt so proud. And so like it, like it selfishly filled my cup, that I got to go out and be the conduit to bringing these miracles to life through philanthropy.
• 21:43
  Jonathan McCoy: And I add that I mean, this is a tip that helps me is that if you're personally invested, if you've made a gift, whatever level, to me that takes some of the creepiness out to I mean, it's something that I personally have put my money into or talk about other donors that have invested, it changes the game, because it's joining this, it's honoring those that have already stepped forward.
• 22:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And to me, it just makes it less creepy, or whatever the word is.
• 22:07
  Nancy Jackson: I actually love what you both said. I mean, Becky, I think I think that notion of your mission is your armor is incredibly beautiful.
• 22:12
  Nancy Jackson: And I think we will definitely be quoting you on that. And john, you're quite right. I mean, when when your conviction is so deep, that of course you yourself are giving, right, and you can tell stories about all the other people who are giving and why they give, as well as the transformation story all the before and afters that you can share. In Becky going back to you know, it's an honor to be able to give, I think, feeling like I remember when my nephew at Christmas, sat and he said, Hey, so Nancy, how is it that you decide that you decided to be a fundraiser, you know, were you in kindergarten, and you and your teacher said What does everybody want to be and you're like, Oh, I want to be a factory, sir. And he was clearly making fun of me and the, and in a good hearted kind of way. But that but the implication was, this is kind of creepy. And what I said at the time, and what I have always said is very much like what you just said, Becky, which is We are so lucky and really blessed that we get to work with the world's most generous people every day, who want to make a difference for people that they'll probably never meet. Because they just care that much. Right. And that is it just turns the tables on how we can feel showing up.
• 23:35
  Nancy Jackson: Because remembering that we're talking with people who are incredibly generous, helps us to be less apologetic, about about making this about making those requests. The last thing, which I think is maybe the hardest in fundraising, it connects back to everything we've said is to persist. Because I think that for many of us, because talking about money is uncomfortable because we're talking to strangers. And sometimes that's uncomfortable. All of the things, right. We don't want to bug people. And so we stop too early. And what we want to remind all all nonprofit leaders is to keep going. And that means when you're first trying to get in the door, try try try and try again, try until they say go away. Because we assume it's so easy to take it personally and think they don't like me or they don't like us, the nonprofit or whatever the thing is, but in reality, it's just that the vast majority of philanthropists of donors, people who are giving, as you said, Becky, they're being asked by lots and lots of people, they're by definition really busy. And so we're not top of mind for them. So we just need to remember that and stay humble, but also stay optimistic and recognize they're probably just busy. Maybe they meant to send a note back but they didn't get time. Maybe somebody else listened to the voicemail and they never heard it. So keep trying both to get in the door.
• 25:01
  Nancy Jackson: And then when you're in conversation, and this is one of our big, big, big takeaways. I would say one of the biggest things that we wish we'd known that when we figured it out it made a game changer difference for us is that once you're in conversation with an amazing person who has voted for your organization by giving right there a donor, stay in conversation. stay top of mind stay in touch much more frequently than you probably think you should. You think you're better them, but donors give to feel like they're making a difference in the world, right? They want to know the impact that their gift is going to make or has made, or both.
• 25:42
  Nancy Jackson: And so the more that we can be in touch showing the before and after introducing them to other people in our organizations, right, the more that you can send things, saying, Oh, I saw this, and I thought of you, not only does it keep you and your organization at their top at the top of their mind, but it shows that they're at the top of your mind. And both things really matter. Because donors like all of us want to feel smart. And they want to feel like they're making a meaningful difference.
• 26:13
  Nancy Jackson: They want to feel purposeful.
• 26:16
  Nancy Jackson: And so the more that you can really interact, heart to heart and mind to mind, the better.
• 26:21
  Nancy Jackson: And that just means more frequent contact than you think.
• 26:25
  Nancy Jackson: So keep doing it.
• 26:29
  Jonathan McCoy: That's powerful.
• 26:29
  Jonathan McCoy: And because in my mind, giving is not the only way that they can make a difference to so I think in these in between times, there's other ways that they can open doors for you or be an advocate or be a volunteer, or all these other ways to plug in.
• 26:41
  Jonathan McCoy: And having that continuous conversation, they won't feel like this is the only way that you want to engage with them. I mean, the missions too big for that. Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who happens to be one of our favorite companies virtuous, you know, we believe everyone matters. And we witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see an activate donors at every level. And virtuous is the platform to help you do just that. It's so much more than a nonprofit CRM. virtuous helps charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising.
• 27:10
  Jonathan McCoy: And we love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized donor engagement. Sound like virtuous may be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org, follow the link in our show notes.
• 27:24
  Becky Endicott: I want to talk to you a little bit about what you've learned in your fundraising careers. And Nancy, I think I want to start with you like what has surprised you? And what are those big aha moments?
• 27:35
  Nancy Jackson: You know, I feel like the biggest one was actually that people are not offended to be asked. You know, when I think about where I started, and where I got my my biggest fear was that I was going to offend people. And that they wouldn't like me, that was that was probably a twin fear, as I was asking them for wouldn't like Nancy, and I think the journey of change was recognizing that the vast majority of people, not even just donors, the vast majority of people are not only not offended to be asked, but they tend to be honored to be asked.
• 28:09
  Nancy Jackson: And similarly, I thought for a long time that if I asked for too much that it would be offensive. But what I learned is that actually, I'm more frequently offended by asking for too little. And so I feel like in many ways, my biggest realization is that people are far more generous than we know.
• 28:29
  Nancy Jackson: And, and they want, most people are walking around the world thinking, I want to make a difference. And I'm just not sure how. And so our job as fundraisers, as Jenna said in the very beginning, is really to have as many conversations as we can, so that we can find the ones who want to make the difference that we're making, right? That's not all people, but find the ones who want to make the difference that we're making. And then go ahead and ask because it's an honor, not an offense. So I would say that was that was my biggest
• 29:03
  Becky Endicott: it's almost like a one good thing that was a really good something. What about you, Jenna?
• 29:09
  Jenna Goodman: Mine starts with the movie The Muppets take Manhattan, there is the the guy who owns the diner. And he tells Kermit that people's his people's. And I think and I it, to me, it applies to fundraising, because we're all just humans talking to other humans. And I was so intimidated by some of the people that I was sitting down with. So you know, starting this out early in my career, sitting down with people who were super successful, and I felt like I didn't know how I was going to connect with them.
• 29:49
  Jenna Goodman: what reason did I have to sit there, I was worried like Nancy, that I would offend them. And I never felt like I would I would know enough or be smart enough or accomplished enough to have these conversations. Until I had enough of them that I recognize that we're all just people. And there's always one thing that you can connect with someone on always every time. There's one thing and it just takes that one thing and it's listening really carefully for that thing, asking super great questions to get to that thing. And being able to connect deeply on it, and then not be afraid to go all the way into it, you know, and just and to me Knowing that I'm just sitting down with another person, and we're all just people, peoples as people. That was my biggest turnaround as a fundraiser. And I love that it
• 30:48
  Becky Endicott: feels like you're even talking about embracing vulnerability. It's like, let whatever that thing is. Don't be ashamed to talk about it, like talk about it honestly, how do you feel about that one thing? What is the experience been like?
• 30:59
  Becky Endicott: vulnerable, like connection, the greatest human connection lies when someone is brave enough to be vulnerable. And I really think that that could be an incredible connection point to a donor as well. So that was also excellent. Okay,
• 31:14
  Jonathan McCoy: you tuned out, we're drinking this pitcher of Kool Aid, the job then mixing, you're so kind, you're so relatable, you're so human, you make this seem so easy, and doable. And then you go and create generous change, which the name even makes more sense after spending more time, right.
• 31:31
  Jonathan McCoy: Tell us a little bit about this journey of how you created this, what it does, and some of the amazing courses you have coming up down the pike.
• 31:39
  Jenna Goodman: I would say that, you know, Nancy had mentioned that we started this really from a place of honestly frustration that it didn't exist, you know, so same, we were looking for tools that and just straightforward, simple, you know, ways of talking about raising money that aren't jargony that don't feel unattainable, that go back to the basics in in every single way. And we couldn't find it.
• 32:13
  Jenna Goodman: And so we created it. And when we recognized that it could help not only professional fundraisers, which we were and the fact that it was missing from professional fundraising, meant that it was definitely missing from the nonprofit world. And so we wanted to be able to give these tools to everybody we possibly could. And we're just on the verge of creating a course called raise money.
• 32:45
  Jonathan McCoy: Course ever and I love it,
• 32:47
  Becky Endicott: the simplicity of this entire discussion is so my jam. I am like, going.
• 32:54
  Jenna Goodman: Thank you that may I feel I love that the simplicity is is the word that you chose.
• 33:00
  Nancy Jackson: Well, and one quick thing to just cuz john, you had said at the beginning that this none of this is rocket science. You said it in a nicer way. reality. fundraising doesn't I do think that fundraising is one of those weird parts of the work that we all do, that we vastly overcomplicate. And part of the reason is that we don't want to tell talk about it. In terms that mean what it is, I mean, we talk about development, we talk about advancement, we talk about philanthropic advising, we're really asking for money. And we need to just get comfortable with the idea that money fuels our mission. Because as soon as we can feel that way, and show up with conviction, that's really what all of these tools are about, so that it does become easy, because it shouldn't be hard. You know, nonprofit leaders are the best possible champions for their organization for their work for their cons for their before and after. And fundraising. That's all it is, as Jenna said at the very beginning, it's having a great conversation. So sorry, Jen echo.
• 34:02
  Jenna Goodman: No, I think the the goal of this course is really to answer every pressing question that nonprofit leaders might have about fundraising or that fundraisers might have about fundraising. And so really, the whole course is videos that are super straightforward. With really practical takeaways. Every video ends with Do one thing, so that you're ready to do one thing, right? You can you can finish that video and no, if I just do this one thing, I'll be moving forward toward raising more money and making more change.
• 34:37
  Jenna Goodman: And so the course itself is really just a series of answers to really pressing questions like, how do I ask a friend for money? How do I ask someone to leave us in their will? How do I talk about money without feeling creepy?
• 34:55
  Nancy Jackson: How do I make a fundraising plan? Do I need a fundraising plan? I mean, all of those pressing questions, we make some some simple steps for nonprofit leaders and fundraisers to just take some action today. And to do the next thing to do the next best thing to start raising more money. And so at some of the tools, sorry, Genet some of the tools that are they seem really Elementary, and it would be easy to look at them and say, I don't need that. One of the things that we share, I would say our most popular tool of all time, is an email formula. And everybody thinks I can send In a perfectly good email, but when we walk through kind of the donor, the donor is what almost all of us naturally do. And so how to flip that, and it isn't hard, but it is game changing. And so literally the folks that we work with are getting five, six times more responses to the new kinds of emails. So it's stuff that's just that simple. And it doesn't take long. And as soon as you've got it, you've got it. And you can go,
• 36:00
  Jenna Goodman: Yeah, and it's that email that helps you get in the door with a foundation, you know, a program officer with a corporation with a donor that you've never talked to before.
• 36:08
  Jenna Goodman: And so that ability to really flip the way that you're reaching out to people, and again, being more human, and less apologetic that runs through the entire course. So that course, we will be ready to launch by July one.
• 36:23
  Becky Endicott: I just love so much what you all are building here and the ethos of it with your company, and just how you show up is so wonderful. And I even tell you that as you were talking about something like you say it's just an email, it's not just an email people, it because if that email is the catalyst to beginning that relationship, that email is everything. And so we cannot just think about it in terms of will I'm just going to put together to Nancy's point earlier, an academic reply, you know, email with all of these things, no, like, let's figure out what the formula is where people are five to six times more likely to reply, think about what that could do to your portfolio just in terms of prospecting and cultivation, I mean, it would just explode. So I am just here to thank you both for what you are putting out into our sector because it feels so frictionless and it feels like you could be a young professional starting out, which is wonderful, and anyone and we have a huge young, professional base that listens to this. And I think this would be a great place to start. But even if you're well into your development, career, your advancement career, these are things that can help us pivot and sharpen ourselves. And I just think continuing education is the way that we can change the world. Because the better that we can get at connecting with each other, telling our stories. And I mean, again, our missions are worthy of that level of investment. So, so much appreciate the generous change team what you guys are doing. We love storytelling, as you all know, on the podcast, and you both feel like natural storytellers. I'm wondering if there's this moment of philanthropy or a story in your careers that has stuck out to you that's really touched you personally that you'd be willing to share.
• 38:18
  Nancy Jackson: Mine is probably, it feels very self serving to talk about but but I think especially for brand new executive directors, my hope is that this rings true and supports you. And so when I started the climate energy project, I was lucky enough to have a little bit of seed funding. And I had, I had no business running something called the climate and energy project at all. I had no background in climate and I had no background in energy. I had no track record. And I got into the Rockefeller family foundation, thanks largely to an introduction by my then father in law and, and I walked in, and I sat down with the most amazing program director. And this is a plug for all of you in nonprofits. Do not just send a letter of interest to a foundation, talk to your program director because program directors are some of the smartest, most generous, amazing people and they can teach you so much. And honestly, I feel like they taught me how to be an executive director. At any rate, I walk in Rockefeller family foundation, I'm in New York City. I'm you know, from the small town Kansas girl in New York City, going up to talk to the Rockefeller family foundation, I was very intimidated and very excited.
• 39:37
  Nancy Jackson: And I sat down and I told him what my plan was to make huge change on climate and energy stuff in Kansas. And I got to the end of my we had this amazing conversation got to the end of it all. And he was quiet for a minute or so. And he said, Well, do you think that 250,000 would give you a good start? And I walked out of there feeling like I had just been handed the moon I remember calling my mom from the street outside screaming and jumping up and down and saying I can't I cannot believe it. And the idea that an organization like the Rockefeller family foundation, would have enough faith in me without a track record without all of the bonafides that they'd be willing to make such a significant Can't investment because they so deeply believed in the change that they were funding and that they believed I could make. It made me want to do cartwheels and backflips and any number of other things to make sure that that change happened, which, of course, is what I spent years been doing.
• 40:49
  Nancy Jackson: And I just want to kind of I tell that story, because it always reminds me how terrifically generous people are, and that those gifts are our people putting their faith and confidence in us to make something remarkable happen. And there is no greater trust than that. There's no greater charge than that. It was so inspiring to me. And it not only fueled the mission, but it fueled me going forward.
• 41:22
  Jenna Goodman: mind goes to the third grade theme here, right like the Muppets. And so I might actually is really more about I think the first time that I knew philanthropy was a thing without ever calling it philanthropy.
• 41:40
  Jenna Goodman: And for me, my mom was single mom got divorced when I was six, and she worked at a private grade school that she had attended, and she wanted me to attend. And so I was there until the third grade, and at the third grade, she was struggling to pay for the tuition. And even though she worked there, I think there were some discounts, but it just wasn't quite enough. And so I had to go to public school for a few months. And during that time, someone anonymously paid for my tuition. And I was able to come back to school at the private school that my mom wanted me to go to, and I stayed there until well, the eighth grade and then I went to private school for Catholic, you know, Catholic High School, and then was able to go on to college and be the first person in my family to go to college. And I on a full scholarship, by the way, yeah,
• 42:40
  Becky Endicott: yeah. And Anssi lighting up,
• 42:43
  Jenna Goodman: moment, me, I know that that moment shaped my whole education. And I had no idea until years later that someone did that. And I still don't know who it was. And I know it meant so much to my mom, of course, but to me, it shaped my path, it shaped my future.
• 43:04
  Jenna Goodman: And for me, education has been something that truly changed my life. And somebody did that for me. And so to me, that moment of philanthropy, and not knowing what it was and who did it really made me when I think about my kind of bizarre optimism and humans, I think a lot of it is kind of grounded from that experience. And just knowing there are people out there that they care, and they do magical, wonderful transformative things for people in the world. And I was one of them.
• 43:46
  Becky Endicott: So it's reminding me of that quote, and I think it was Mother Teresa that said it. If you can't feed 1000 people feed one people.
• 43:51
  Becky Endicott: Jenna is literally walking around paying that gift forward every single day with your work right now. I think about the compounding effect of someone investing anonymously in you and how you are showing up in this industry, to invest in professionals and how you are paying it forward. And I could not love you both more at this moment.
• 44:20
  Jonathan McCoy: Say I love you guys so much. So right back at you. Well, I don't know how we start to put a bow on this episode. But I really can't wait to hear your answers to this. We ask all of our is another reason why we're kindred spirits. We close every episode asking what's your one good thing, something that people could do today to implement? What's a secret that you have maybe to your success? Or just a good habit? piece of advice? Jenna, you want to go first?
• 44:47
  Jenna Goodman: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:47
  Jenna Goodman: Something that Nancy and I have said 1 million times your best donors are your best donors.
• 44:57
  Jenna Goodman: Which means the people who are most likely to give to you are the people who already give to you. And there is this myth this like there's always this magical unicorn that somewhere is out there that's going to give you this amazing gift. And yes, you should always be looking for more donors. You should always be having more conversations persist. Yes, you should do that. And you already have this wealth of of humans who care about your cause. They're already sitting there. they've they've raised their hand they've invested in you start their house. Have a conversation with some of your best donors.
• 45:37
  Jenna Goodman: And you will be shocked to learn why they give to you. What keeps them giving what their hopes and dreams are for your mission. So your best donors or your best donors, start there, talk to them first. And it will help you to have every other conversation. Nancy, what about you
• 45:55
  Nancy Jackson: still mind actually goes back to persist.
• 45:57
  Nancy Jackson: And I think one of the reasons that this is so important to me is that I, I'm not good at it naturally. I am very forward focused. So I tend to be thinking about kind of the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, instead of thinking as I should, and I'm now getting much, much better at about the conversation I just had. And so in many ways, the crux of our entire sort of system for fundraising is when you've had that beautiful heart to heart conversation, and you've listened so carefully, for what this person's connection to your work might be, then the crucial thing is to really think forward and say, I mean, in john, you hit it right on the head, there are all kinds of ways that donors want to be involved in your organization, who could they introduce you to? Could they volunteer with you? Would they like to come and attend an event? Would they like to, you know, there are all kinds of possibilities for next steps.
• 46:56
  Nancy Jackson: And really sitting down the moment that conversation is done, and they're still fresh and alive in your mind, and brainstorming and thinking about what all those next steps could be and then putting them on your calendar. This is the part that I for too long, didn't do. And the result was I had many ideas about what I should do what I was going to do. And then it was only when I had reason to see that person again, that I realized I'd done none of them.
• 47:27
  Nancy Jackson: And what that meant was that I hadn't deepened the conversation or the relationship in the way that I should have been doing to help that person feel important and valued as they are and to help them better be, you know, live into the organization because the more someone participates in the life of your organization, they, the more they co own it with you. And that's the moment that people step forward and say, What can I do? What do you need? I've noticed this Can I help, right?
• 47:57
  Nancy Jackson: And so my, my big message is to think hard about every way to engage someone in the life of your organization, when you believe that they can really make a difference for you. And then put it on your calendar, and make sure that you honor those entries in your calendar.
• 48:12
  Nancy Jackson: Because that's how you build really not just sustaining but transformative relationships for your organization. That's my big one.
• 48:23
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, can I just say something? This is why y'all are such an amazing team. Yeah, as if you put your to one thing as good things together, you've got your development plan for the year for the for the year for your life. Like, I love your compliment of each other. I love what you both have said like it's so wicked smart and so true. And just practical. So thank you both.
• 48:45
  Becky Endicott: Everyone needs to get to know Nancy and Jenna, you need to come and find them on socials. Where can people connect with you both with generous change, and also meet your awesome third member?
• 48:56
  Becky Endicott: Kelsey, we want to give Kelsey a shout out today to so
• 49:02
  Jenna Goodman: yes. And so since Kelsey has specially designed our entire website, Becky, I feel like
• 49:09
  Unknown: Oh,
• 49:10
  Jenna Goodman: yes, yeah. So they anybody that is wants to connect with us, you can obviously just send us an email, which would be the easiest thing to do Jenna at generous change, calm, Nancy at generous change, calm, or Kelsey at generous change calm. And you can check out our website. And there's a place for you to subscribe and get to know more about raise money, the course. And then we are mostly on LinkedIn. And so you can find me, Jenna Goodman on LinkedIn, or Nancy Jackson on LinkedIn or Kelsey Barnes on LinkedIn or generous change on LinkedIn is the place
• 49:48
  Nancy Jackson: and I do before before we close, I just want to thank all of you at we are for good, and john and Becky, for this conversation. And for all the amazing good that you're doing. I cannot say more strongly. I mean, when I was an executive director, had I had access to the kind of resources that you are offering multiple times a week, not just I mean, fundraising is our little piece of it. And you're everywhere all over what's important to the nonprofit world. And so I can't say strongly enough, you know, all the kindness that you've, you know, sent our way we want to mirror back because you all are doing something that's so necessary and Welcome, and inspiring and important and so we're so grateful to, to be in community with you and to have this chance to hang out together, it's been a massive treat.
• 50:44
  Becky Endicott: Oh my gosh, well, we both come from the place of we were all frustrated with the thing that did not exist. So we built it is again to my same point about being a fundraiser. It is our great joy to be able to do this. And I hope it comes through. So
• 51:00
  Jonathan McCoy: I can't get rid of us now. We're just a state away. So we're BFFs for life.
• 51:04
  Becky Endicott: We need to hang out and do some disruption in this metameric. So I feel like we're here for it. Thank you guys so much. We so appreciate this conversation. I feel so buoyed by it. really encourage everyone to check out the this incredible class that Jenna and Nancy are putting together it's called raise money. I am just geeking out on that name. So thank you guys so much. And we're excited to see you more in our world. Thank you so much.
• 51:33
  Jonathan McCoy: Thanks so much for listening to today's conversation with Jenna and Nancy of generous change. I hope they've inspired you to go out and raise more money today. I hope you hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. That's why I'd love for you to join our good community. It's our own social network like an after party for every episode, a place to meet new friends and find inspiration when you feel stuck.
• 51:53
  Jonathan McCoy: Sign up today at weird for good calm slash Hello. One more thing. If you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and Your support helps more people find and join this community. Thanks friends. Our production hero is the most generous person in the room.
• 52:07
  Jonathan McCoy: Julie Confer and our theme song is sunray by ready boys boom.