Latest / Sometimes There's Side Eye / STSE #57: Service Dog Training w/ Sunny Bravo, Part 1

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STSE #57: Service Dog Training w/ Sunny Bravo, Part 1 · Sometimes There's Side Eye

0:12
Welcome to Sometimes Their Side Eye, a podcast about two friends
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having real and unfiltered conversations about dogs and
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people. Listen as we talk about our
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lives with dogs, training, behavior, share some laughs and
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a whole lot of banter. I'm Heather.
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And I'm Christy, what are we talking about this week,
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Heather? Oh, I'm very excited because
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first of all, we have a special guest.
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Sunny. Bravo is with us.
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Yay. Welcome, Sunny.
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Thank you for having me. Oh, we're thrilled.
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And first of all, she has the coolest name ever.
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And second of all, she just told us that 26 years as a dog
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trainer, that is incredible. So bravo to you.
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Oh, I truly did not do that on purpose, but bravo to you and
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we're take us away. And I just feel like everyone
1:13
should know that Sonny's name fits her perfectly because I met
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Sonny and didn't know her name. And then when I found out her
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name, I was like, well, that's the perfect name for her.
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So. Thank you, I appreciate it.
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It's like your parents saw into the future and just knew you
1:31
were going to be this beautiful light.
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And we're like, we must name her Sunny.
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Absolutely try to live up to the name.
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You do. You do do a good job.
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We're fangirling. Yeah, well, we like to start out
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the podcast anytime we have a a guest and ask them what dogs
1:50
they live with and what their favorite thing about their dogs
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are. Yes so I live with three of my
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best friend girls that are not humans.
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My oldest is Chrysanthemum she is a standard poodle and she
2:02
will be turning 9 on June 16th. her and I are both Geminis we
2:07
suit each other perfectly and then I also have Confetti who is
2:13
my Chinese crested. She just turned 4 in November of
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2024 and she's like a cat. She's I don't see her unless I'm
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feeding somebody or passing out treats.
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She's just asleep in a corner, happy as can be.
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And then I have my latest craziness added to the house,
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which is Camoneal, who is the opposite of her namesake.
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She is not calm in any way, shape or form.
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She's soothing to me when I need her to be, but that's about it.
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She's my Dutch Shepherd who will be two years old on the 27th of
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this month, and she is teaching me a lot more than I thought I
2:59
knew about. Dust.
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Doesn't it just happen that way? It really, really does.
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Yep, I think it's so funny. So anybody who listened to our
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last episode, we actually talked about chamomile or camo.
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So everybody go back and listen, talking about Camo and her way
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to play with her teeth out and. Hackles.
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Full head to tail hackles. Ready to roll.
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I love it the. Whole time I.
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One did not remember that Chrysanthemum is 9.
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She looks amazing for her age. Holy cow.
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And then two Chinese crested. How did that happen?
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So I originally was going to, so it happened in during COVID,
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everything happened during COVID.
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She was, she was a whim. I was bored sitting at home and
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I was doing virtual lessons during COVID.
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But I was like, I just want to get my hands in something a
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little bit different. And I started researching small
4:05
breeds and I fell in love with Chinese crested breed.
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They're just incredible smart little dogs.
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And when I found her breeder, she fit everything that I was
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looking for temperament wise in the breed and just the breeder,
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everything she did. And so I originally got confetti
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for confirmation and sports and confetti said no, no, no.
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I am a cat trapped in a Chinese crested body.
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She wanted nothing to do with anything.
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We tried barn hunt, she thought the rat was disgusting.
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I tried her in Fast Cat. She said no no no I do not run
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and chase plastic bags. And we tried dock diving.
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She said you want to get my hair wet and so oh.
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My gosh, she. Just lounges around the house.
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I love it once whenever. I mean, hey, best laid plans,
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right? They don't always work out the
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way we well, what the way we want them to.
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So sometimes we got to roll with it.
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She is the best snuggler though when you just need if you have
5:05
like a cough or a cold, she sits perfectly right on your chest
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and warms it up and it's just the best feeling.
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So she is an amazing snuggle bug of a buddy.
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That is like the sweetest thing. How much?
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Does. She weigh 7 whopping pounds.
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Wow. Yeah, that's decides.
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A little bit less, you know Trin likes to lay on the chest, but
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24 lbs on the chest is a different.
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Effect than you may be trying to kill you, Heather.
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Yeah, that's quite possible. It's quite possible.
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Press the lungs a little. So how did you get into dog
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training as a profession? I mean, if you've been doing
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this 26 years, you have seen a lot of different eras in dog
5:51
training, shall we say. So where did you start?
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So I've been doing this 26 years professionally.
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I've been working with and around dogs since I was since I
6:03
was six years old. My stepdad actually bred and
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raised and showed in confirmation Siberian Huskies.
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So I grew up around a not super biddable breed.
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And so trying to figure out how to get the dogs to want to work
6:23
with me as a child definitely put training in a different
6:29
perspective for me than maybe other people or children that
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grew up with morbidable breeds. And so that's what I started out
6:37
with. And then I would walk neighbors
6:40
dogs. All of my family, extended
6:42
family always had dogs. And so they would ask me to help
6:45
with their dogs or if their dog was sick as a child, they wanted
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me to diagnose. Whoa.
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Bet Sunny she's only 6, but she can do it.
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You know, and so I kind of just grew up around a huge variety of
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Brie. Obviously, I was just a child.
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I didn't know anything. And then when I turned 18, I
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moved out and started working at Petco and fell in love with the,
7:13
not with the trainer there, but with her, with her energy and
7:17
personality and just her being. She was a wonderful human being.
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And she would hold group classes there at Petco.
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And she was one of the first ones that started bringing the
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clicker training program into corporate.
7:30
No way. Yeah.
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And so I started, I had not heard anything ever of clicker
7:35
training, and I was 18 at the time.
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And so I would ask if I could kind of just watch her group
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classes. And so I ended up mentoring
7:44
underneath her and learned a whole lot.
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She was what would be considered now a force free positive
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enforcement trainer. So I learned a lot from her how
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to read body language was probably the biggest thing she
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instilled in me that, you know, just because a wagging tail is
8:01
happening doesn't mean the dog is necessarily OK with whatever
8:05
is going on. So that's pretty much how I
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started out. And then I, as I was learning
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that, I did dog walking and pet sitting.
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And so I got to see even greater variety of dogs in their home
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environments with strangers coming in with with and without
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their family home, being able to handle dogs on walks and seeing
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how they reacted to wildlife and other dogs.
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And it was a huge learning and growing opportunity for me as a
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young adult. And yeah, that's pretty much
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where I started and then just kind of kept going from there.
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Wow, how amazing for that to have been the first person that
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you met in the industry. What a gift.
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Yes. Yes, it I it could have gone a
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completely different direction. Oh, for sure, completely.
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Yeah, I will say, I will say the moment I knew Sunny was
8:53
something special was we were at Barn Hunt and Jackson went up to
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her to say hi and she scratched his butt and I saw him do like
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the slightest lick of the lip and look sideways.
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And I was like, oh, he doesn't like that.
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So I went to call him back, but before I could even say
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anything, Sunny said, oh, I'm so sorry you don't like that,
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buddy. Here, I'll scratch your
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shoulders instead. And it was like, you caught on
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to that. Like you really?
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And she's like, oh, it was so clear.
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It was like. Oh.
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Thank you, like nobody sees these things and I didn't want
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to be rude and be like please don't touch my dog's bottom that
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sounds weird. She was just doing butt.
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Scratches. Why'd you gotta make it weird,
9:34
Christy? I love Christy.
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And then after that, I found out you were a dog trainer.
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I was like, well that makes so much sense.
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I think that initially you and I met from the positive
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reinforcement training group that was kind of trying to get
9:54
together in the valley here and I think maybe a business card
10:00
exchange or something of the like.
10:02
My memory is terrible. I think so.
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But I just remember looking at your Instagram and being like,
10:07
hmm, she's just up my alley. And then when you started coming
10:12
to Barn Hunt and, you know, I sort of realized, oh, oh, I know
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who this is. I said to Christy, I'll go.
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She are people. You just wait.
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I'm like this is a good one. Exactly how that conversation
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went, yes. I mean, it's just like a.
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Paraphrase right there. It's just a little paraphrase
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that's so funny. Initially you worked with more
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aggressive dogs or aggression cases, right?
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I did, yes. So when I was mentoring with the
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trainer at Petco, I was just doing family pets.
10:47
It was just, you know, basic obedience, puppies, young
10:50
adults, even some older adults that just wanted to, to get some
10:53
basics down. As I continued with the dog
10:56
walking and pet sitting, I would I'll share this story with you
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guys. I had been learning from my
11:03
mentor how to handle canine aggression directed towards
11:07
humans and other animals, not just dogs.
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It was really of huge interest to me.
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So she kind of took me under her wing and we just expanded on
11:18
that knowledge wise for my brain.
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And on one of my pet sitting jobs, I was called out for an
11:25
interview and it was a young family and they needed somebody
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to come for four days and three nights to let their Rottweiler
11:33
out. So we met and I walked in the
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door and I distinctly remember to this day that it was almost
11:43
frozen in time the way that the dog looked at me from the
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hallway and they said stop right there, let me put her outside.
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And so I froze still. Something was very off.
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They put the dog outside. I came in and sat at the kitchen
11:56
table. We did the interview and they
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asked if I would like to meet the dog and I said sure.
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So they let her in and I was sitting at the kitchen table.
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My arms were folded across and I was just leaning slightly
12:07
forward. And the dog came very stealthily
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over to me and stared and her face was about 7 inches away
12:15
from mine. And I just told myself try not
12:18
to breathe and do not move. And they said, oh, you're the
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best one she's done with. She tried to bite everybody
12:24
else. And so they said, OK, we'll go
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put her back outside. So I'm frozen still this entire
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time. They get her back outside and
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she explodes at the window right when they close it or at the
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lighting door. And they said, So what do you
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think? Do you think you'll watch her?
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And I said yes, I will watch your dog be I I knew.
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So 20 years ago, pet sitting is not what it is today where
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there's a lot more pet sitters that have training knowledge and
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behavior knowledge and breed knowledge.
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I felt comfortable enough with body language.
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At that time. I was only 19 or 20.
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I think that I answered yes because I didn't want anybody
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else to get fit. I knew it that I could protect
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myself enough to at least let this dog go potty outside, feed
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it and water it twice a day. That you could manage her.
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You could manage her well enough to do it safely.
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I get you. Yeah, yeah.
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And so they left that night and I was to start the next morning.
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And for four days I came loaded up with, and I had cleared with
13:31
them if she had any food allergies or sensitivities and
13:34
they were fine or shoot, the dog was fine with everything.
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And so I came loaded up with bacon, cheese, steak, anything
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and everything you could think of that was smelly.
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I came and the next morning I arrived and I knocked and
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started talking before I even put the key in the lock.
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And the dog came right at the window and was just very
13:55
unhappy. And so I immediately cracked the
13:58
door open and threw treats as far away as I could.
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And I already had a trash can lid with me just in case.
14:05
I love it. The dog realized after the
14:09
entire first day. So my first two visits that I
14:12
came with food and so we were best friends from that day.
14:16
For the rest of the rest of the visits, I never watched the dog
14:20
again. But that was my biggest moment
14:23
in how quickly it could go South if somebody did not know how to
14:28
read body language signals. And we have to put our egos
14:31
aside because these dogs tell us very clearly when they do and do
14:36
not like something. And that was really the start of
14:39
my real deep interest in canine aggression, reactivity,
14:44
frustration and all of that stuff.
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So that that dog kind of put it all into perspective.
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And then I kind of worked with aggression, primarily human
14:52
aggression, for about 10 years. Had to be a Rottweiler.
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Had to be a Rottweiler. It is exhausting working those
15:01
aggression cases, human dog, whatever it is, the stakes are
15:06
so high. Yeah.
15:08
Yeah. In every way possible, for the
15:10
people, for the dogs, for the the specific dog you're working
15:13
and then the other dogs in the environment.
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It is just so, so exhausting. And I give you props for doing
15:22
10 years honestly. It was.
15:25
It was probably more mentally draining, yeah.
15:29
Then I switched to puppies. I get it.
15:32
Because when I decided I was going to have my training
15:35
business again, I was like, I'm doing puppies.
15:38
I mean, I've had my own aggression issues with dogs in
15:42
my own home and I was like, I don't have the heart for it.
15:44
I don't. I don't have it in me anymore.
15:47
I'm right there with you. Yeah, I was like, give me the
15:49
puppies, let me mold them and help people grow and sort of set
15:53
things up with the best foundation possible so that we
15:57
don't have as much. I mean, there's sometimes you
16:00
can't, there's no way around it, But so that we don't have as
16:03
much of the aggression and the reactivity and everything else
16:07
down the road. Or at least they have tools.
16:09
Yeah. One of these things is not like
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the others. Christie hates puppies.
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I just, I don't get puppies. She's like.
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I don't like, I hate puppies. I would never.
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Want one in my home full time. You know it's.
16:24
Really hilarious. I was really hilarious about.
16:27
This Sonny Christy also said she didn't want a Jackson.
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So in like 10 years when Christy has a puppy, I cannot wait to
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rewind all of the episodes and do like a whole mishmash of all
16:41
the times Christy said. I don't want a.
16:42
Puppy amazing. I like it.
16:45
I'm going to be here for that, yes.
16:47
Well, I didn't want a dog as young as Jackson either.
16:50
I thought 1:00 is way too young. Well, to be fair, in that case
16:55
you didn't know how young he was when you.
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But I kept thinking, this is puppy nonsense.
17:00
I'm dealing with puppy nonsense. Yeah, yeah.
17:05
And then I I got all the records and was like, it really was
17:08
puppy nonsense it. Really was thank.
17:11
Goodness, he's going to grow out of some of these things.
17:15
Yeah. We can hope and he has.
17:18
He has. Yes, yeah.
17:21
I love him. He's the sweetest guy.
17:23
He's so silly and cute. I love him.
17:25
Praise God he has a good personality because he would
17:28
have never made it home with Christy, which just looks alone.
17:32
I mean, I thought he was cute but like, German shepherds
17:35
aren't my thing. Like squishy nose dogs like pit
17:38
bulls or boxers. Those are my thing.
17:40
Labs. Christy, we have a shepherd
17:44
person on the show. Stop talking smack I.
17:47
Have a shepherd. Now she can she can join in on
17:50
the smack. It's fine.
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I mean, yeah, OK, you start out getting your wits about you,
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learning as a little baby trainer, having a great mentor,
18:01
you decide, sure, let's do aggression.
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You do that for a while, then you're like, OK, I'm burnt out,
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which happens all the time, Totally natural.
18:09
You're like, OK, now I'm going to do puppies.
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And then we get round to why you're actually on the pod,
18:16
which is to talk about being a service dog trainer.
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So when did that sort of happen at the same time?
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Or how did that kind of all come about?
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Yes and no. At the same time, I had started
18:28
the transition from aggression cases to puppies and little back
18:33
story. I've always been a huge fan of
18:36
Helen Keller and her story growing up and the teacher that
18:40
helped her kind of mold her, helped her come out of her shell
18:44
and become who she was. And so disabilities and service
18:49
dogs and accessibility in the world was always of interest to
18:54
me growing up. And as an adult, I just, I was
18:57
just always drawn to it. And that has nothing to do with
19:00
aggression cases. But that's just a bad story.
19:04
So it's. Fine, that's what I was doing.
19:07
So I started transitioning into puppies and I got a call from a
19:11
young woman who had in home care.
19:14
And so I wasn't sure what that meant at that time.
19:17
I just wasn't aware of it. I think I was 28 or 29 and she
19:23
had a black lab puppy and she was actually wheelchair bound
19:26
and so she had minimal use of her hands and she had no use of
19:29
her legs. And so her in home care was
19:31
actually 2 full time nurses that were rotate day and night shift.
19:35
She couldn't do a whole lot for herself independently.
19:39
And so she had gotten this puppy.
19:41
I didn't know it until I I went and met her.
19:44
But to be her service dog. And so she wanted at least the
19:48
very basic, so the puppy just to learn just basic skills at home.
19:54
She actually wanted to do it right, but she wanted to then do
19:56
basic skills in public and then possible leading into service
20:02
dog work. And so I, anybody that knows me
20:05
really well knows I love researching anything.
20:09
If you wanted me to research like a dirt clod and how it
20:11
forms, I would love to do that. Like if it involves research, I
20:16
don't care what it is, I will deep dive into it.
20:19
And so after I met her, we were starting doing the in home
20:21
basics. I had to figure out how to help
20:25
her reinforce this puppy with minimal body functions for her.
20:32
And so she the this puppy typical lab loved balls.
20:36
And so I taught the puppy with me while I was at her home with
20:41
the nurses there, how to teach a retrieve to hand.
20:44
And so the puppy would then go to the hand.
20:47
And so we started then moving our hands around and going from
20:50
standing to sitting so that the puppy would always take it to
20:53
the palm. And so this woman's left hand
20:56
was the most functional, more functional than her right hand.
20:59
And so we ended up being able to teach the puppy to bring the
21:01
ball to hand. And so she was able to throw
21:04
treats with her right hand and kept the ball in her left hand
21:07
after the puppy retrieved it. And so we were able to get that
21:10
reinforcement base going so that if she dropped her treat pouch
21:14
or if she just didn't have access to treats, she always had
21:18
one of her nurses actually made it, which was pretty cool.
21:20
A sew on ball holder that attached to her wheelchair
21:25
handle. Oh, that's cool.
21:27
Yeah. And we have them now.
21:29
I think Kong makes them where it's for the little clip, but it
21:32
was something similar. But she, her nurse made it for
21:35
her for her wheelchair handle. And so she was able to grab it
21:39
with her hand and throw it for her dog.
21:42
Dog would retrieve it. She put it back in the pouch.
21:43
It was very comfortable for her hand to be able to use the ball
21:47
for reinforcement. And so I then did a deep dive
21:50
into service dog training because I enjoyed this woman was
21:54
just the kindest person I had ever met.
21:57
And the dog was lovely. Had the she couldn't have picked
22:00
more perfect dog. And so I just did a deep dive
22:02
research into how to do anything and all things service dog
22:07
training related. And so I started that way and I
22:11
got as many books as I could. There was very few online things
22:16
in terms of signing up for things online and then being
22:18
going to them in person. But I did as many of those and
22:21
seminars and workshops that I could.
22:24
And so she was actually my first service dog client and I worked
22:27
with her until the dog was about 2 1/2 pulling her wheelchair,
22:30
retrieving items of clothing, pulling the zipper down from her
22:34
jacket. It so that if her nurses were
22:37
busy doing something and she needed something, she could ask
22:39
the dog to do it. And so she was actually my
22:41
first, first service dog clients and black lab puppy.
22:46
That probably was my happiest 2 1/2 years of my life of working
22:50
with with these people. Yeah, that's amazing.
22:55
So if she wouldn't have called me, I don't know that I would be
22:58
where I am today in terms of being a service dog trainer.
23:03
Isn't that funny how things just happen, send you down a path
23:11
that's amazing. I love how to me, doing service
23:16
dog training requires an such an element of creativity because
23:22
you're teaching specific tasks. And I'm of course I'm like going
23:27
off the rails here, but you're I.
23:28
Would like it noted that Heather has I'm.
23:31
Going off the rails and not Christy this not Christy first.
23:34
So you're training these specific tasks and every dog is
23:39
different, every client is different, every disability is
23:42
different. So you're coming up with this
23:44
creative connection to make all of that happen.
23:48
That is such a really cool piece of it.
23:51
And it takes a really special talent to to be able to do that.
23:55
You know, we talk about it. Oh, dog trainers.
23:57
Oh, you got a nail and I got a hammer.
23:59
It's better to have a full toolbox, you know?
24:02
And I feel like in situations like this, it's really
24:04
imperative that you have a really, really large toolbox.
24:08
Because. You have to think outside the
24:10
box. Outside the box and on the flag.
24:13
Because yes, sometimes it's the human, sometimes it's the dog
24:16
that something isn't working for.
24:19
And especially if you're in a public place, you have to be
24:21
able to come up with two to four different things to try to
24:26
resolve that potential issue for it to work for both parts of
24:30
that leash. So yeah, lots of on the fly
24:33
stuff happen. That is so very cool.
24:38
That's amazing. Would you mind just maybe
24:41
telling people what the difference between a therapy
24:44
dog, an emotional support dog, and a service dog is?
24:48
Sure. Yeah.
24:48
So they're not one and the same. They don't all have the same
24:52
definitely. Not.
24:53
Definitely not. I think a lot of people get
24:56
confused due to the media's misinformation that they put
25:00
out. Meaning a lot of times we'll see
25:02
some news stories, right, about an emotional service dog that
25:05
bit somebody on an airplane. They're not one and the same.
25:08
It's one or the other. So I'll start with not the
25:11
least, but the one that has the least access, right.
25:15
That would be typically emotional support and therapy
25:18
dogs. They have the least access
25:19
rights for public places that pets are not allowed an
25:22
emotional support dog or actually it's an emotional
25:25
support animal. That's true.
25:28
That is true. It can be any species as long as
25:32
it's allowed in your state and city ordinances.
25:36
It can be anything that helps you feel better or about
25:41
yourself or about the moment that you're feeling or about the
25:44
situation that you're in, in your home, whether that's a
25:48
house, an apartment, a condo, an RV, whatever that is.
25:53
They are allowed to remain with you in your residence.
25:57
And it's just an an animal or creature that makes you feel
26:02
better. It helps soothe your feelings.
26:04
It helps bring you comfort. That could be a fish, a bird,
26:07
dog, cat, horse, pig, anything that helps you feel good.
26:12
They are not allowed on airplanes.
26:14
They are not allowed in hotels, they're not allowed in not pet
26:17
friendly places. So if they serve food not
26:19
allowed, Nordstrom's may or may not allow them.
26:22
I'm not going to ask them. They're typically pretty pet
26:24
friendly. But if it serves food, not
26:27
allowed to go in there unless it's a task trained service
26:29
done, a therapy animal, because it could be a variety of animals
26:33
as well, are specifically trained to help bring comfort to
26:39
a variety of people or a large group of people.
26:43
And that could be anywhere from dogs that go into schools that
26:47
help little kids that maybe have some reading difficulties.
26:51
They get to be read to by those children.
26:53
Or it could be a an animal going into a hospital or Hospice care,
26:59
bringing comfort to a group of people or an individual also
27:03
seen and you guys might have seen it or or other people and
27:06
throughout the world might have seen it at least in the US
27:08
therapy dogs at airports. Yes, it's.
27:10
Very good. It's more common now.
27:13
It is. It is definitely more common.
27:14
It's very cool though. I would.
27:15
Love to do it. I would I hope I have a dog at
27:18
some point that I can do it. It's I some of the dogs there
27:22
are amazing. They're.
27:24
Incredible. I just pictured Jack from doing
27:26
it and barking at all the strange.
27:28
Don't touch me, don't look at me.
27:32
But he could he could be very cute facial wise.
27:34
Oh my gosh, just don't. Look at him.
27:37
Tiago would be like I literally I'm having the best day of my
27:41
life. At all me he could do.
27:45
It but I do have a friend with a therapy pig who is an emotional
27:51
support pig for her daughter, but she also then trained it to
27:55
go to the it's not a nursing home, but it I well, it might be
27:59
a nursing home that she works in and they all feed the pig
28:02
Cheerios and so. That's so sweet, goes.
28:05
To work with. Her.
28:06
Almost daily. When I love that.
28:09
When I had so I had a a pit bull Daisy and we did quite a bit of
28:14
therapy work. We worked alongside therapy
28:17
birds and a therapy pig and a therapy miniature horse one
28:24
time. And I, I also, people try to say
28:28
to people that emotional support animals are for you and therapy
28:32
animals are for others. It's that is a distinction.
28:37
But I have a special place in my heart for doing therapy work.
28:40
It's really. Yeah.
28:41
I miss it very deeply. Yeah.
28:44
It's really beautiful to see teams out there and to really
28:48
see animals, whether whatever species that really enjoy it.
28:53
And a lot of these animals, you can really see that they really,
28:56
truly enjoy visiting wherever they're visiting.
28:59
They just, it's nice. And and then seeing the patients
29:03
or the kids or whoever their clientele is, you see their
29:06
faces light up and almost like a just sigh of relief overcome
29:11
them when they see their animal. And it's, it's really beautiful.
29:13
It's a gift. It is?
29:15
Yeah. OK.
29:17
So that's those two. So now what sets a service
29:21
animal? Do we say animal?
29:24
Yes, service. Animal, and I'll clarify because
29:29
it's only two animals. All right, go for federally.
29:33
It's only two animals, a miniature horse and a dog.
29:37
OK, I was. Going to say I was like, I'm
29:40
gonna ask you about miniature horses because I feel like they
29:44
I've heard that they can be OK. Yeah, yes, yeah.
29:48
So we're like, what? What tell?
29:50
Us more federally those two animals are covered miniature
29:55
horses and dogs. There are some states that allow
29:57
cats to be service animals for their human.
30:01
It is. What Yes, there are some things
30:04
like cats would just. Knock your medication off the
30:06
counter and be like you get. It yeah, I can't, I should have
30:12
had that prepped. But I, I don't recall the, the,
30:15
the states that do allow it. There's a handful of states that
30:18
do allow it. And so they are allowed to be
30:21
service cats in their state if they were to cross say, into
30:24
Arizona. It is not, they're not
30:27
recognized here. So they do have to remain within
30:29
their municipalities, but so federally miniature horse and
30:34
dog. Some states also allow cats.
30:38
A lot of people, like I said earlier, mistake emotional
30:42
support and service dog are the same.
30:43
Emotional support is not a specific theme trained the dog
30:47
or cat or whatever is just there and it helps you feel good when
30:50
you're feeling down. Perhaps a service dog is a or or
30:55
miniature horse is an animal that has specifically been task
30:59
trained to mitigate the symptoms of a person's disability.
31:03
Typically it's considered a life altering disability.
31:06
So some people say well it's just anxiety, can you just deal
31:09
with it? Some people, it might be just
31:12
anxiety and they might be able to process it better than other
31:16
people or other people that anxiety.
31:19
It is life altering and debilitating.
31:21
I'll give a little personal info.
31:24
I had some pretty traumatic stuff happen a while back and I
31:29
had initially anxiety that I could just deal with stuff.
31:34
After my traumatic incident, I couldn't just deal with stuff.
31:39
I would go to the grocery store and I would sit in the parking
31:42
lot for about 20 to 30 minutes just trying to get out of the
31:47
car, just just to get out of the car.
31:50
And that's when I realized, OK, I might you might need a little
31:54
bit more help. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:57
I can't wish this one away. Yeah, yeah, probably need to
32:00
breathe. Through it, Yeah, yeah.
32:02
So there are different levels of anxiety for for folks.
32:06
Absolutely. People just handle things
32:08
differently, whether it's anxiety or depression or
32:10
anything else. People just process things
32:12
differently. And So what might be life
32:14
altering to me may not be life altering to somebody else.
32:17
It just depends on that person's processing and how they are able
32:21
to cope with it and if they have support to help deal with
32:25
everything. If there's more support, they
32:28
might be able to cope with things better than somebody else
32:31
who doesn't have any support. So there's just so many factors
32:34
that go into a huge variety of things on whether or not
32:38
somebody needs or does not need a service animal to assist them.
32:42
What I have always told my clients is if you're going to
32:45
work with me and I'm going to teach you and your dog a task,
32:49
it has to be able to be held up in court.
32:52
We don't want to get lapped out of the courtroom.
32:55
So a dog laying on somebody's lap, that's a very Gray area.
33:00
A judge may or may not see that as a task that is life altering
33:04
for your disability. I teach Chrysanthemum to put her
33:08
paws up on my shoulder and she lays her head here and then
33:11
pushes into my neck right on my Vegas nerf.
33:14
So it helps slow it down. I'm forced to take deeper
33:18
breaths. I'm forced to take slower
33:20
breaths. Seeing a dog put their paws up
33:23
and push into the vagus nerve. A lot less Gray area there.
33:27
Very specific, very specific, yes.
33:32
And and that's what it's about. It's about that the specific
33:35
task to accomplish a certain thing with your dog as a
33:41
therapy. Yeah, and a lot of people don't
33:43
know about the vagus nerve and that I, I think when somebody is
33:49
in need of a service dog or has a dog that they really want to
33:52
be trained for service work and they're looking for a service
33:54
dog trainer, people don't know what they don't know.
33:58
And I, I kind of wish there was just this general website of
34:03
information on what to look for in a specifically a service dog
34:09
trainer. Because if you're ever taken to
34:11
court because a business says your dog did X or Y or Z, you
34:15
need to be able to prove without a shadow of a doubt that your
34:18
dog is specifically task trained.
34:20
And if you happen to come across a trainer who just wants your
34:22
money, which there are lots and lots of, good luck.
34:25
They need to know what, why and how it helps you and how it
34:29
mitigates your disability. It's it feels like I don't know
34:35
why I put this all together. I totally understand that a
34:40
service dog is supposed to be trained for a task and all of
34:43
that. I totally understand that they
34:46
are protected right through the ADA and all of that stuff.
34:50
But I guess I never put all of that together to, Hey, if you
34:55
have to go and defend yourself in court, I never sort of put it
35:00
in that box or put it in that, you know what I'm saying?
35:02
Like I had all these different pieces, but then I never
35:05
thought, well, do people actually take people to court
35:08
over their service dog? But then there's like the flip
35:10
side of it from my this is my perspective of it's really
35:14
important that you not fake service dog.
35:16
So like that side of it. I totally see.
35:19
I don't know, I just, I just didn't like put all of that
35:21
together, but it makes complete sense.
35:23
That's. A real mess.
35:25
It's so much to think about. I think the general public,
35:29
specifically the ones that are like, oh gross, why is that dog
35:32
in the restaurant? I think them and then them and
35:34
everybody else who maybe doesn't know a lot about service dogs
35:37
just kinds of lumps lumps it into oh, they just have anxiety.
35:41
They just need to bring their dog everywhere.
35:43
It's really an ESA. So for people that actually need
35:46
it but have never had them before and aren't super
35:49
knowledgeable and are just getting started into that
35:51
service dog world and having this animal by your side 24/7
35:55
like a 2 year old and four year old toddler.
35:58
There is so much to know and there's so much misinformation
36:02
out there and there's so many trainers that want to take your
36:04
money and there's so many handlers that are just also
36:08
potentially misinformed. And so they're giving you
36:10
misinformation. And it's it's a lot because it's
36:14
not just having a dog next to you that's house broken and
36:17
doesn't pull on a leash. It's you, you have to think
36:22
about so many different aspects about the businesses.
36:26
Is this a business that doesn't want you in there because of
36:29
cultural differences? And they're also, you know, not
36:31
necessarily informed of the laws.
36:33
Is it because they had a service dog in quotes go in there and
36:39
peed on product? And so now they're like, well,
36:41
no, we have a bad taste in our mouth.
36:43
Is it somebody that presented an ID and the security card?
36:48
The security guard says, you know, the last team gave me an
36:51
ID. Why don't you have an ID?
36:52
You can't come in unless you show me an ID.
36:54
So there's just, there's so much to think about when you have a
36:58
service dog. And I think the biggest, biggest
37:01
one that a lot of people don't think about whether they're
37:05
getting a service dog or they're a family member whose loved 1
37:09
needs a service dog is the amount of unwanted attention
37:14
that you get when you have a dog.
37:17
It is. Because we're dog, we're dog
37:20
crazy at this point. Our society is dog bonkers.
37:24
And so if your dog gets to go somewhere where another dog
37:27
doesn't get to go to, it's like you stick out like a sore thumb
37:30
and all of a sudden there's great light on you and all you
37:32
want to do is disappear with your dog that you need to be
37:36
able to do your grocery shopping.
37:39
Yes. And so for specifically for
37:41
people with agoraphobia, which is a fear of, you know, and then
37:45
having a service dog and then having all of this unwanted
37:47
attention or for teenagers or anyone that's experiencing
37:50
anxiety or just a fear of social situations.
37:54
And now you have the service dog.
37:55
So when I was doing some group training with service dogs and
37:59
then with clients or even people that were thinking about getting
38:03
a service dog either for themselves or their their
38:05
slightly older children, I would always tell them when you come
38:09
hang out with us while we're doing this group training so you
38:12
can see how much attention we get.
38:14
Yes, we're in a group, but consider the amount of attention
38:17
that we're getting and think about whether you're OK
38:21
potentially having that all by yourself.
38:24
It's a dog. It doesn't matter if it's a
38:25
scary looking dog. A fluffy little dog does not
38:28
matter. And I think we are dog crazy,
38:32
but I also think we are weirdly as a society, I feel like it
38:37
puts it your disability out there that you have a disability
38:41
that other people couldn't see before.
38:43
And I think our culture is like, weirdly OK with invading
38:48
people's privacy about disabilities.
38:51
Because when my. Friend lost her leg.
38:54
People would come up to her all the time and say, what'd you do?
38:58
And she's like, what I do. She's like, somebody ran me over
39:02
and I lost my leg. What did?
39:04
What do you mean what? And she, she got to a point
39:06
where she'd be like, it's none of your business, you can move
39:09
along. But during that healing process,
39:11
we were like, who was asking you?
39:13
And now? Yeah.
39:15
I mean, now she can joke about things.
39:17
She's like, oh, excuse me, I got to take off my leg for a minute
39:20
or I got to go out and put my leg on to see the sunset, you
39:24
know, so she can joke around about things.
39:26
But. Now like.
39:28
When it first happened, it was insane to all of us how
39:32
comfortable people were addressing her disability with
39:35
her who had no relationship with her.
39:38
Literally strangers, yes, complete strangers.
39:41
So I'm guessing when you add a service dog to a person, all of
39:45
a sudden it's like, oh, there's a dog and a disability Now I'm
39:48
very curious. Yeah, it's 1000 times worse than
39:53
probably what most people even confathom.
39:56
And then if you choose not to answer those questions, you're
40:01
at least I've experienced being called horrible names.
40:05
I mean, all the regular like bitch and all those other
40:07
things, but even worse names. And then I've gotten into a
40:11
political debate. It turned political because I
40:13
didn't want to share what my disabilities were.
40:17
Yeah, it's, I think I thought I had a pretty strong backbone,
40:23
the human aggression stuff. I.
40:25
Learn to put on my big girl pants having a service dog
40:29
because the entire world, children and adults alike, think
40:34
that your service dog is there for them.
40:36
And if you don't let them pet your service dog, you're a
40:40
terrible human being. But you have to be able.
40:43
And that's the other part is not only do you have all this
40:45
attention, but are you OK with potential confrontation, not
40:49
necessarily fighting or anything, but being able to tell
40:52
people no and and stick to that no.
40:55
Yeah, because your disability isn't enough for you have to
40:57
handle to go out in the world and go about your business.
41:00
Now you also have to figure out how to defend yourself and your
41:04
dog. Like it's it's insanity.
41:07
It's so. Terrible to have anxiety and
41:10
have to then yeah. People like, come on.
41:14
You know, if you're listening to this, I don't think our
41:16
listeners are the people that are doing that, but like.
41:19
Maybe spread awareness that that dog is.
41:21
Working and don't bother them. Just sitting here thinking legit
41:25
I'm as dog bonkers as the next person and I am a complete
41:30
extrovert and I will talk to anyone anywhere.
41:34
You know I'm the annoying person in the store, at the grocery
41:37
store. Like standing in line, like
41:39
start gabbing with you, whatever, until I see a person
41:42
with a service dog and then I just smile and I stand there
41:45
quietly. I because because we're we
41:50
understand. I don't understand their
41:52
experience. I just mean that I have a
41:54
respect for your dog is working and I understand that your dog
41:58
is working and there ain't no way that I'm getting in the
42:01
middle of that, right. Yeah, so it control yourself
42:05
people. You can do it if I.
42:06
Can do it, you can do it. Yes, But you bring up a good
42:10
point though, Heather. So there's a lot of people, it
42:13
typically tends to be newer handlers, right?
42:16
They're just getting into whether they want to let people
42:18
pet their dog or not in terms of the people distracting them.
42:24
Meaning, yes, the general public shouldn't distract service dogs
42:29
intentionally especially. And by that I mean going up to
42:33
the team and pretending the human's not even there and then
42:36
just engaging and talking and petting the dog.
42:40
I'm talking about if a person across the mall can't go, Oh my
42:45
gosh, isn't that funny? They're not.
42:48
Yes, they are intentionally saying that, but they're not in
42:51
your dog space. And your dog should be should be
42:55
in the keyword trained enough to be able to either completely
42:59
endure it or be like interesting and then turn right back around
43:02
and go to work. So while I understand that
43:05
there's a ton of handlers that don't agree with me on this,
43:08
that your dog should be trained to ignore early minor
43:12
distractions, a person grabbing its face is not a minor
43:14
distraction. No.
43:15
Oh my gosh. Somebody right?
43:17
Somebody talking to it from a few feet away, either your dog
43:21
should know to you should have trained your dog enough to to
43:25
ignore that person, or you ignore that person and and get
43:29
your dog's focus on you. So the world is not going to
43:32
cater to anybody, let alone service dog handlers.
43:35
And I think that's again where another misconception comes in,
43:38
is that people are going to cater to you and it they're not,
43:42
they're not at all. I think and what I mean is if I
43:45
was standing there, my normal inclination for a person and
43:50
their pet just sitting there is that I'm going to walk up and
43:53
start talking to them about their dog and like, you know,
43:55
engage in a conversation. Whereas if it's somebody in a
43:57
grocery store and they're standing there with their
43:59
service dog, I'm still going to talk to them like normally, but
44:02
I would never, ever be like, oh, can I pet your dog?
44:05
You know, first if I. Take it down on your knees like.
44:09
Hello on the. Floor whereas if I take Tiago
44:13
out and about somewhere I'm like, Oh my God, everybody just
44:16
pet him. Everyone like it's completely
44:18
different, right? It is and and people need to be
44:21
aware of it and I feel like it it's like this matter of respect
44:27
and don't assume that just because there's fur that you're
44:31
allowed to like reach out and touch the dog.
44:33
Do not ever assume that because they might not be wearing a vest
44:39
or they might not be right. So talk a little bit about that
44:42
because what are the rules? What do they have to show?
44:45
Do they have to have a sign on them that says do not pet me
44:48
ever? And the person has to wear a
44:50
blinking red light that says I have a disability.
44:52
Like what you know? Right.
44:55
Yeah. So federally and for states or
44:58
at least Arizona, but federally the only thing is required for a
45:02
service dog is that they are house broken.
45:05
So no peeing inside of buildings, no pooping inside of
45:08
buildings and tests that are trained specifically to mitigate
45:13
the person's disability. So there are some states that
45:16
request that the dog wear a certain color collar.
45:21
You don't have to listen because federal kind of takes priority
45:25
over that if it's a hinder. I think I'm going to say this
45:29
correctly. If it's a hindrance, states
45:32
rights or states laws, federal supersedes and and I think it's
45:37
the reverse as well. So like federal doesn't allow
45:40
cats, but that state allows cats.
45:43
So that is less of a hindrance for the the human.
45:45
And so it is allowed in those states.
45:47
So all the dog needs is the 2 the I'm sorry, the the house
45:51
broken and the tasks because it gets so hot in Arizona
45:54
specifically, I'll just kind of talk about our state.
45:56
There are some handlers, I'm one of them that chooses at certain
46:02
times in certain months to work our dogs naked and that just
46:08
means a collar in a leash. I have also trained my dog, the
46:11
people. The dog, not the people, yes.
46:13
Yes, the dog, not the table. Yes, I have also trained her to
46:20
work quote UN quote naked, meaning she knows the term let's
46:26
go to work, go say hello or go potty or go sniff and then let's
46:32
get back to work. Gotcha.
46:34
Some handlers throughout the US train their dogs that when the
46:38
Vester harness is on, that means work time and when it's off that
46:42
means you know you're you're puppy again in Arizona, it just
46:45
gets too hot that I have mesh harnesses invest and sometimes
46:49
even that is is too much. And so my dogs have been trained
46:53
to just be able to work on a flat collar in the summer.
46:56
I know a lot of people find that very unnerving to not have their
46:59
dog labeled. I feel like for them the label,
47:03
the labeling of their dog gives them more sense of security.
47:06
And so I say do do you. They aren't legally required to
47:10
be labeled, but if it helps you feel more comfortable going into
47:13
a business or establishment and your dog is labeled, label away.
47:17
Yeah. With that said, sometimes people
47:20
put too many small wording labels on their dogs, and
47:25
they'll have 15 to 20 patches with, you know, small writing.
47:29
These patches are 4 by 4 on average, with like 5 or 6 lines
47:34
of text. And So what does the public have
47:35
to do to read those? They have to get closer.
47:38
And then they're, that's a good point.
47:40
Then they're closer to the dog. The person doesn't realize that
47:43
they're just reading, potentially just reading the
47:45
patches. And so then they think they're
47:48
trying to pet the dog and maybe they're uncomfortable with
47:50
people that close. And so sometimes one simple
47:53
patch on either side that says do not pet or service dog or do
47:57
not distract. Sometimes while it doesn't look
48:00
as cool, I get it, I understand, but it's easier for the general
48:04
public to to at least from a further distance, read when we
48:08
have so many very I see them. I see these very cute patches on
48:12
Etsy that are, you know, themed, but with that smaller writing,
48:16
they can't see it. They have to close.
48:19
That is such a smart point. You know, us dog people, we
48:22
really like our flash. So we like, you know, the
48:24
matching crates and the matching collars and the all the things.
48:28
But that, that is something I would have never, ever thought
48:31
about. And we had a previous guest, our
48:34
friends Cindy and Chris Ann Cindy has a seeing eye dog June.
48:37
And for her, she has her seeing eye harness, which is hey, we're
48:42
working, hey, we're not working right.
48:44
And the harness has a specific use for her.
48:46
So it's sort of all ties together.
48:48
And I feel like that that is a more commonly known item, I
48:55
guess here for, oh, that denotes service dog, right?
48:59
Where as it's a little bit more clear.
49:03
I like the patch thing. I think you bring up a really
49:05
good point. But I could see the pros and
49:07
cons of wanting to do it versus not wanting to do it.
49:10
Yeah. Exactly.
49:11
Yeah, I have my own personal experience with my standard
49:16
Poodle and my Dutch Shepherd and then dogs that I've had for
49:19
board and train. So a variety of breeds.
49:22
I feel like in my experience that I tend to get less
49:27
attention or dog calls as I call them instead of cat calls.
49:34
I love it and. Never, never.
49:36
To me, I'm talking about to the dog.
49:37
I feel like there's less of that the less gear that the dog has
49:44
on or the more simple gear that the dog has on.
49:46
And when I have had clients that want their dog to understand
49:50
when it's just a collar and leash and working goes on a
49:54
verbal cue, we almost never get bothered by by the general
49:59
public almost ever. It's I don't know if it's just
50:04
assumed that it's a working dog and they're just kind of going
50:07
through what kind of work. It could be at a festival a
50:12
couple months back with Chamomile before she needed a
50:15
public access break. And I have a Mexico flag patch
50:20
on her and it was a Latino event.
50:24
I think I told you this, Christy.
50:25
No, I don't think so, but I'm. I can.
50:27
Already imagine where it's going, yes.
50:30
So I am Latina, but I look very white.
50:34
I look very, very white. I'm very white passing camo is
50:38
has Brindle but she's for the most part.
50:41
Pretty much pretty black, yeah. Right.
50:43
And and so she's a Dutch Shepherd, so she has these prick
50:45
ears. So I have her in a tactical
50:47
harness. It's just the style I prefer and
50:49
it has a handle on it. So if I need any assistance for
50:52
whatever reason, that handle is there for me to grab quickly.
50:55
Well, I have a patch on a Mexico flag patch on the side of her
50:59
vest that is on my side. So when we're walking, the
51:02
public can't really see it. It's, you know, not facing them.
51:05
And it has the do not pet on the other side where people can see
51:09
it. Well, she was going potty and
51:11
she was with the Mexico flag patch facing the sidewalk.
51:16
And this gentleman and his son maybe about 8:00 or so walked by
51:22
and and they're Latino as well and they're speaking Spanish.
51:24
And so the son in Spanish asked the dad, hey, dad, is that a
51:29
police dog? It's a camel because she has
51:32
pretty ears, black. She has this pretty kind of
51:35
tough ish looking tactical vest on.
51:38
And I was just wearing black pants and I think a black shirt.
51:40
So I looked less creative than I normally do.
51:43
And so the dad, I look at him and kind of just smile out of
51:48
the corner of my mouth, and he smiles back.
51:50
And in Spanish, he says to his son, no, that's Border Patrol.
52:01
And he knew that I understood. And I start laughing.
52:04
And the son just has this terrified look on his face.
52:07
Like what? And in Spanish he was, I'm just
52:10
kidding, I'm just kidding. And he goes, that's her service
52:12
dog because he had passed us earlier.
52:14
And so he, but his son was not with him when he passed us
52:20
earlier. Oh man.
52:22
That's Border Patrol. That kid was probably.
52:24
Like what? Yeah, yeah, she just releases
52:27
the dog to round everybody up. Yeah, yeah.
52:31
Oh my gosh. Yeah, so patches make a
52:34
difference on the public's perception.
52:36
It really does. I I hear you there.
52:40
My goodness. Hey everyone.
52:45
We had so much fun with Sunny Bravo and talking to her about
52:48
service dogs and service dog training that we had to cut this
52:52
episode into two. So if you are listening to
52:54
episode 57, come back in two weeks where we finish up with
52:58
Sunny in episode 58. Thanks so much for listening.
53:02
If you've enjoyed this episode, subscribe, rate and share us
53:07
wherever you get your podcast. Also come on over to Instagram
53:11
and engage with us at Sometimes Their Side Eye.
53:14
Thanks for listening everybody. Talk to you next time.
53:17
Bye bye.