Latest / The Unmaking / S01E03: Siobháin Hooper - Celebrant and Poet

Transcript

S01E03: Siobháin Hooper - Celebrant and Poet · The Unmaking

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: So Siobhan,
• 0:15
  we're here at Dublin Bay on the shores of Lake Wanaka apart
• 0:20
  from the name which I
• 0:21
  found out was actually given to the place by an Irish surveyor
• 0:25
  in 1863 I'm assuming
• 0:29
  there's something else that appeals to you about being here
• 0:33
  apart from your Irish
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: sense of humour Yeah,
• 0:37
  well I first came to visit here because it was called Dublin
• 0:40
  Bay That was the
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: reason,
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: okay
• 0:44
  Had to see what it was like There was nothing deeper to it than
• 0:47
  that but yeah I was
• 0:48
  like yeah when we first moved here we were just doing lots of
• 0:53
  little drives around
• 0:54
  and we spent a bit of time here and I think as the years have
• 0:58
  gone on since we've
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: lived here
• 1:01
  This is where I come to on those sunny evenings after school
• 1:07
  and summer where the
• 1:09
  kids usually when it's not windy here when it's those still
• 1:13
  evenings the kids are
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: so at peace
• 1:17
  and they potter about and the lake's not too deep here so they
• 1:21
  potter about it's
• 1:23
  kind of warm like uncomfortably warm sometimes passing through
• 1:28
  it and there's
• 1:29
  shelter here there's not many places around Wanaka where you
• 1:32
  can go to the beach
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: and there's shelter
• 1:34
  With the trees and yeah I also we when the kids were young we
• 1:42
  had a naming ceremony
• 1:43
  for them here as well which was just nice and I had my family
• 1:47
  over from Ireland at
• 1:48
  the time one of my sisters and her husband and the kids so yeah
• 1:51
  it's just become a
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: special place to me over time but not for any one particular reason
• 1:58
  Is there a fit between this place and something to do with
• 2:03
  Ireland or Dublin or was
• 2:05
  it when you came here and you thought why the hell did they
• 2:07
  call this Dublin Bay or
• 2:08
  was it oh yes of course it reminds me of this lake back home or
• 2:12
  this coastline or
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: the sky or
• 2:16
  Mountains i'm guessing yeah possibly not but well so so yeah
• 2:20
  this isn't like the
• 2:21
  dublin landscape at all really and what the dublin and wicklow
• 2:25
  there are dublin and
• 2:26
  wicklow mountains on the outskirts of the of the county but our
• 2:31
  new zealand is
• 2:32
  based well especially this area is like ireland on steroids so
• 2:37
  down along the south
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: like
• 2:40
  In Kerry there's mountains and lakes which are quite like this
• 2:43
  but much smaller and
• 2:44
  the coastline down along the south like the Catlins and all
• 2:48
  that area is a lot like
• 2:49
  the coastlines in Ireland but I think just a little bit more
• 2:53
  dramatic here and
• 2:54
  longer well no actually coastlines in Ireland can be dramatic
• 2:59
  as well so yeah I
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: think Dublin Bay itself here there's nothing that
• 3:06
  It's like oh I know the exact place at home that that reminds
• 3:09
  me of but it was just
• 3:10
  the name really but I do see similarities in the landscapes not
• 3:16
  so much the North
• 3:17
  Island because that's very tropical but the South Island
• 3:20
  landscapes are similar
• 3:22
  people are similar have the same sense of humor down to earth
• 3:28
  You're the first
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: former professional Irish dancer I've ever met
• 3:33
  Which I'm guessing means traditional Irish music isn't just
• 3:37
  something that you've
• 3:37
  listened to or heard as part of your childhood or growing up
• 3:41
  but it's probably in
• 3:42
  there somewhere pretty deeply in your body and your DNA I spent
• 3:47
  over 20 years
• 3:49
  living away from Aotearoa and tearing up over the haka and
• 3:52
  waiata and so what
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: impact does hearing Irish music have on you now?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh
• 4:03
  I love it so much and it makes me very happy and it's been
• 4:09
  interesting because I've
• 4:10
  been doing this Tereo Māori course and we went on a noho in a
• 4:16
  marae in Karatane the
• 4:17
  other weekend and we had you know we're singing these wayata
• 4:21
  and we had this
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: amazing talk around the landscape
• 4:26
  There from one of the Kaumatwa I think we call him Cain and he
• 4:32
  talked about you
• 4:33
  know the importance of culture and language and music and to
• 4:38
  unders it's important
• 4:40
  to understand them and understand the connection between the
• 4:42
  both between both of
• 4:44
  them so you can understand yourself and I thought oh shit I'm
• 4:51
  doing the wrong
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: course
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I should be doing an Irish language course.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've been,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think over the last few months,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: really,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I've been reflecting on it a bit more doing this today,
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: because I,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing these Waiata and everything and they're beautiful.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then when I hear Irish music,
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: It connects with me so much more.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, and it's just who I am.
• 5:18
  And,
• 5:19
  you know,
• 5:19
  I took the kids last year to an Irish dancing show here and
• 5:23
  they loved it.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they're,
• 5:24
  they're hopping around the place since then I was actually
• 5:26
  looking up there's a
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Kayleigh happening in Howieus soon.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's a lady out in Howieus.
• 5:32
  Arranging a ceilidh so yeah when I hear Irish music my foot
• 5:35
  taps and last year I
• 5:38
  went back to Ireland during the Flac Eol which is an Irish
• 5:41
  music festival and I
• 5:43
  actually went with my mum and dad on a day trip and this whole
• 5:48
  town just gets taken
• 5:49
  over there's kids playing Irish music on the streets every bar
• 5:54
  you go into there's
• 5:55
  Irish music everything's packed there's concerts and it happens
• 5:59
  for a whole weekend
• 6:00
  and I was walking down the street with my mom and dad and next
• 6:03
  thing I heard
• 6:04
  Raymond Raymond is that you and it was this guy called Hugh who
• 6:08
  I used to he used
• 6:09
  to play for me as I danced growing up so he him and his friends
• 6:13
  were the musicians
• 6:14
  and we were the Irish dancers me and my sisters and sometimes
• 6:17
  some friends so we it
• 6:19
  was just amazing to have that connection and I I was almost
• 6:22
  jealous because
• 6:25
  He's still playing music and I'm not still dancing and I
• 6:29
  suppose I could still
• 6:30
  dance but it's a lot it's a lot on the body I couldn't be
• 6:34
  probably couldn't be
• 6:35
  doing it professionally but and I was I was jealous because
• 6:41
  they were still doing
• 6:42
  it and I was like oh I wish I could still just get up and dance
• 6:46
  but I'm not you
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: need to be fit
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't have that kind of dance and fitness anymore.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, Irish music just sings to me in many, many ways.
• 6:58
  Are there other things from Ireland that set you off or that
• 7:00
  you miss really,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: really strongly and that can trigger either through sensory things,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: maybe through smells or touches or things?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Music's definitely one.
• 7:14
  gravitate towards Irish authors when I'm reading I check the
• 7:20
  Irish news first in
• 7:21
  the morning before I check the New Zealand news I there's
• 7:24
  nothing there's nothing
• 7:25
  there's nothing here that's triggering but I really you know I
• 7:30
  love it and I love
• 7:32
  meeting Irish people and some people really want to talk about
• 7:36
  Ireland and some
• 7:37
  people don't and sometimes that's nice to be like oh yeah
• 7:41
  you're from Ireland too
• 7:41
  cool and we just know and understand but we don't have to talk
• 7:45
  about the ins and
• 7:46
  outs I suppose what you know the things that are hard is when
• 7:51
  there's family
• 7:52
  gatherings and things happening in Ireland that I would just
• 7:55
  love to be there for
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: mostly family I think yeah or like concerts
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: I miss access to concerts and gigs and Wanaka doesn't really have it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't quite get the same sort of quantity of big acts coming through.
• 8:13
  There's stuff happening I think but it's very much on the
• 8:15
  smaller local level than
• 8:18
  big names or people who perhaps be more beating the path to the
• 8:21
  door to go and see
• 8:22
  rather than this is on and it sounds interesting I'll just go
• 8:25
  along but yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you after the Irish dancing then you started your comms career I guess
• 8:35
  communications career was it 15 years in sort of agency and
• 8:39
  client roles what did
• 8:40
  that teach you about communication about telling people's
• 8:43
  stories I think it taught
• 8:45
  me the importance of it and you can't sell anything to anyone
• 8:51
  unless there is a bit
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: of depth to it
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a particular,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 8:57
  frustration sometimes that comes up when you're working agency
• 9:01
  side and the sort of
• 9:04
  assumption that automatically everything would just be so much
• 9:06
  easier and better
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: when you're working client side.
• 9:09
  So you had a lot of time working at agencies and then moved
• 9:12
  client side to Air New Zealand.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the case or were there other,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: did you find similar frustrations then with that experience?
• 9:23
  It's definitely easier client side easier in that you can
• 9:29
  manage your budgets and
• 9:31
  you can go to the decision makers and get a straight answer
• 9:36
  from them and then
• 9:39
  retell that to agencies where agencies you're many steps
• 9:42
  removed from that decision
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: maker yeah agency agencies is hard work but I think
• 9:48
  You know without without the skills I learned in agencies of
• 9:52
  how to work really
• 9:53
  hard how to make something out of nothing and pivot and problem
• 9:58
  solve I think
• 9:59
  that's what made me attractive for the Air New Zealand role
• 10:02
  that I had this
• 10:04
  experience and could think quickly and make things happen
• 10:07
  client side I felt like
• 10:11
  I had more freedom creatively as well we were really encouraged
• 10:16
  that that we could
• 10:18
  come up with our own ideas and we didn't have to go to an
• 10:20
  agency for everything and
• 10:21
  any idea is a good idea just pitch it tell us why and you know
• 10:25
  we can make it
• 10:26
  happen so yeah I definitely I definitely loved client side and
• 10:30
  I definitely loved
• 10:31
  you know there's a security that comes with being client side
• 10:34
  agency you're always
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: nervous that you're going to lose a client or you know
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to make targets kind of becomes all consuming.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're client side,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: you have KPIs,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: but they're not always financial,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: which is really nice for your self development,
• 10:56
  you can develop yourself a bit more and try things out and go
• 10:59
  to different
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: departments and learn more about them.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I just felt way more well rounded being client side.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Were there any aha moments once you were actually client-side?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I never realised this.
• 11:12
  This is what they're doing or this is why these decisions take
• 11:14
  so long or appear so
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: ridiculous on occasion.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think then when you move client-side,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: you realise the corporate world can just change overnight.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: A decision for a restructure is made
• 11:36
  and everything's in flux like what you thought you were going
• 11:41
  into work for that
• 11:42
  day is just pulled from underneath you and then they pivot and
• 11:46
  change and here's
• 11:47
  the new structure here's your new manager and there's no
• 11:49
  handover and you go oh
• 11:50
  okay so I think I think the volatility of that I was like whoa
• 11:55
  okay nothing's ever
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: safe and I think
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Agency side,
• 12:04
  you would have felt more involved or you can see things coming
• 12:07
  because you're in a
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: smaller environment.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you go, Oh, I don't know.
• 12:12
  If that person is doing so well or I don't know it looks like
• 12:16
  they're trying to
• 12:17
  change that person from that role to another role or something
• 12:20
  but I think in
• 12:21
  corporate when it's a big corporation you can't see what's
• 12:24
  coming because there's
• 12:25
  decisions being made in all other aspects of the business that
• 12:29
  you don't even have
• 12:29
  time to look at in your day to day so I think the volatility of
• 12:34
  of being in a
• 12:34
  corporate and thinking like I loved the security of it but then
• 12:38
  realizing oh this
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: isn't secure either yeah
• 12:43
  Air New Zealand is a brand that New Zealanders have a really
• 12:46
  strong affinity with
• 12:47
  and particularly internationally when you are living overseas
• 12:51
  and that feeling of
• 12:54
  home again when you first get on that first Air New Zealand
• 12:57
  flight on your way back
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: to New Zealand.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: You were inside it for nearly five years.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a feeling of responsibility?
• 13:04
  Were you aware of that sort of passion before you started or
• 13:08
  did that sort of come
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: apparent through your work?
• 13:11
  I was definitely aware of it before I started and it was one of
• 13:15
  the reasons that I
• 13:16
  wanted to go to Air New Zealand so I was on maternity leave and
• 13:22
  I knew I didn't
• 13:22
  want to go back to the agency world because it was just not for
• 13:25
  me anymore
• 13:27
  and so I wrote down a job description for myself of what would
• 13:32
  my dream job be and
• 13:35
  what would the company I want to be working for and it was Air
• 13:37
  New Zealand I wrote
• 13:38
  down Air New Zealand and I wrote the job description for myself
• 13:41
  and I just kept an
• 13:42
  eye on pages and next thing I saw a job come up that was
• 13:48
  basically what I had
• 13:49
  written down so yeah so I wanted to work for Air New Zealand
• 13:52
  because it was such a
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: strong brand
• 13:55
  As a consumer I loved it you know so I was like they must be a
• 13:59
  well-oiled machine
• 14:01
  to be given off that message to everyone like you feel it
• 14:04
  abroad I felt it living
• 14:06
  in New Zealand so yeah that's that's why I wanted to work for
• 14:09
  them so and I think
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: as well the care I felt just flying with them even like
• 14:19
  The Flight Attendance I thought if a company can trickle that
• 14:24
  down to the very
• 14:25
  frontline person that must be a good company so yeah and then
• 14:30
  when I started there
• 14:31
  I was overwhelmed with how much passion is in the business how
• 14:39
  they introduced us
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: to the business and what's the word for
• 14:44
  You know like onboarding onboarding yeah yeah yeah it was
• 14:47
  incredible you got to
• 14:48
  meet with like captains and you got like I don't know if this
• 14:54
  is part of the
• 14:54
  onboarding but I got to do the flight simulator at one point
• 14:57
  and I did a project
• 14:59
  around like the values of Air New Zealand and the people of Air
• 15:04
  New Zealand where
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: we were just asking questions much like this with filming them as well
• 15:10
  And it's unbelievable the pride that people take in the job and
• 15:14
  in the Air New Zealand name.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was so special to see everyone,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:19
  we were interviewing engineers and flight attendants and people
• 15:25
  on the digital team
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: everyone from airports right through to head office.
• 15:32
  And the message was the same from everyone that they were so
• 15:35
  proud to work for Air New Zealand.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: You now live in Wanaka?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do I say you've ended up in Wanaka or you now live in Wanaka?
• 15:44
  Is the taproot gone in here or is this a phase,
• 15:49
  might be temporary,
• 15:50
  might be long term?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see how you feel about it now.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I went from Ireland to do a year away 18 years ago.
• 16:04
  Went to Sydney I was there for five or six years and left
• 16:09
  Sydney I met my now
• 16:11
  husband in Sydney he's a Kiwi and we both were like oh let's
• 16:17
  have a change so we
• 16:18
  left Sydney and at the time Sydney was just getting too hectic
• 16:24
  it was like whoa
• 16:26
  it's quite an intense life over there like you're like you're
• 16:30
  meeting people for
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: breakfast you know the socialising starts in the morning
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then we moved.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's from Auckland.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we moved to Auckland.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted to spend a bit of time with family and friends here.
• 16:40
  So we moved to Auckland for a few years and then moved down
• 16:43
  here nearly eight years ago now.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this Wanaka
• 16:51
  has just been amazing for us has changed our whole life this
• 16:56
  move has changed our
• 16:57
  whole life and approach to life and yeah we love it here and
• 17:02
  we've got a house and
• 17:03
  we've got kids and we've got a lifestyle and I actually found
• 17:06
  it easier to make
• 17:07
  friends here than I did in Auckland just a smaller community
• 17:11
  and I've made some
• 17:13
  amazing friends and feel very grateful to be here and to live
• 17:17
  this life yeah
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the expectation coming here?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Had you been here before?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know what you were getting into?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Was this the hope that,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: yep,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: this is amazing,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: it will be great,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: or it's like,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: let's see,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: roll the dice,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: or I have no idea what to expect?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Where were you at?
• 17:34
  My husband was definitely pushing for over me because I was
• 17:37
  still at Air New
• 17:38
  Zealand and I was like but what would we do what would we work
• 17:41
  at all those
• 17:43
  questions and it was sort of came to the point where we were
• 17:46
  like right we need to
• 17:48
  probably start looking to buy a house and we just didn't want
• 17:54
  to buy a house in
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Auckland because they were so expensive and they were
• 18:00
  all cold the ones we could afford were all cold so we were like
• 18:04
  right where would
• 18:05
  we actually really want to live and we had just been down to
• 18:08
  Queenstown like on a
• 18:09
  holiday so i hadn't really we hadn't really spent much time
• 18:12
  here but we're like
• 18:13
  that would be an amazing place to live it looks gorgeous so
• 18:17
  yeah so we we ended up
• 18:18
  buying a house here in Wanaka like we got so lucky we were just
• 18:23
  down for a weekend
• 18:26
  and my husband was doing the half marathon in Queenstown and we
• 18:30
  were like,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: sure,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: we'll look at some open homes while we're here.
• 18:33
  And then we saw our house and we missed the open home for it
• 18:38
  because we were
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: catching up with friends.
• 18:40
  And then we were telling our friends later who we know here
• 18:43
  that they were like,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: there's this house for sale.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It would be perfect.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they showed us in the messenger or something.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh,
• 18:52
  That's the house we wanted to go to that's like my dream house
• 18:55
  but we missed the
• 18:56
  viewing and they were like we know the real estate agent so
• 18:59
  then we got a private
• 19:01
  viewing we put in an offer and we got it so we had it for two
• 19:06
  years before we moved
• 19:07
  down we moved down when I was on maternity leave so I was still
• 19:09
  really nervous
• 19:10
  about the move like obviously it's beautiful and you want to
• 19:15
  live here but then
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: when you're so caught up in the corporate world
• 19:21
  and you know your monthly reviews and your monthly catch-ups
• 19:28
  and you know always
• 19:30
  working towards something it's very hard to give up that life
• 19:36
  when you're in it and
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: think well how the hell are
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Are we going to earn money otherwise without this, you know?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So my husband was definitely more encouraging of it.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: We moved down here when I was on maternity leave just to try it out.
• 19:52
  So we still had my job to go back to in Auckland if we didn't
• 19:56
  like it here,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: but we got here and we loved it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I thought, I'm never going back to Auckland.
• 20:03
  That's interesting there's a couple of sort of serendipitous
• 20:06
  moments already in our
• 20:07
  conversation is that something you do regularly in terms of or
• 20:10
  that you notice in
• 20:11
  terms of the universe sort of sending you messages maybe that
• 20:14
  this is you know this
• 20:15
  is meant to be is this something that you've always sort of
• 20:18
  been aware of or
• 20:20
  followed or sort of you know activities like saying okay I'm
• 20:22
  going to write down
• 20:23
  what I want and maybe that will help you know make it true yeah
• 20:26
  yeah I like him
• 20:31
  I have a good friend in Ireland who always says what's meant to
• 20:34
  be is meant to be
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: or what's meant to be won't pass you and yeah I do have a bit of a
• 20:41
  Hippie side that I think things happen for a reason and I think
• 20:48
  change is really
• 20:48
  good I always encourage it when people tell me they've handed
• 20:52
  in their notice I'm
• 20:53
  like yeah change is coming you know so yeah I yeah I have I
• 20:58
  have a sort of hippie
• 21:00
  spiritual side which I think maybe is an Irish thing as well
• 21:04
  just I feel like
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: there's like a you know there's things happening
• 21:09
  Guiding you to where you need to be i don't know exactly what
• 21:12
  they are i don't i
• 21:13
  don't i'm not religious but i yeah believe in the universe and
• 21:20
  pulls pulls you to
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: where you need to be so yeah we came here and all of it it's paradise
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see similarities between Tao Maudi and Irish culture?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, lots.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: the waiata and the haka,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: we've just got different forms of it,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: but it's still about storytelling.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: and connections and,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 21:43
  the storytelling part of Te Ao Māori is so important and it's
• 21:48
  the same in Ireland
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: and the same of holding on to an indigenous language.
• 21:53
  And,
• 21:54
  you know,
• 21:54
  the Irish language is very poetic in how they describe things
• 22:00
  and people.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like Te Ao Māori is the same.
• 22:05
  So,
• 22:05
  yeah,
• 22:05
  I definitely see connections there and I understand it as we
• 22:11
  learn it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of oral traditions and storytelling,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: you've been telling other people's stories for a long time,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: and then you've
• 22:20
  taken the leap I think to get up on stage a slam storytelling
• 22:25
  event so five minute
• 22:27
  story factual in front of a group of largely strangers that are
• 22:32
  specifically there
• 22:33
  to listen to you and your story which perhaps a certain type of
• 22:38
  masochism involved
• 22:39
  there or courage or combination of both what was what was the
• 22:43
  force or the drive
• 22:44
  behind you doing that for the first time I listened to your
• 22:47
  intro to the podcast
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: about The Unmaking
• 22:50
  and I suppose I had my own on making a few years ago so you
• 22:54
  know all through like
• 22:56
  you're saying telling other people's stories and agencies and
• 22:59
  client side as well
• 23:01
  you know in every review that I had when it comes to like
• 23:04
  self-development they're
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: like and what do you want to develop and I would always say oh I'm really
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: interested in writing I just don't know
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, oh, would you like to start some like copywriting or?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, not really.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: But that was just the application to writing.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm back to school.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I think about going to school,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I loved English,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: loved history,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: loved the storytelling of history.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved English and I loved poetry.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know,
• 23:39
  translated that into,
• 23:41
  oh,
• 23:41
  do a degree in communications,
• 23:43
  go work in an ad agency.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my outlet.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I've always felt like I've had something else.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I got distracted for many, many years.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got distracted partying.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I got distracted with my career.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: the move down here slows you down,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: slows your mind down in the nicest of ways.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: First of January 2022 I gave up alcohol For the first time?
• 24:17
  For the first time yeah outside of being pregnant but I had you
• 24:22
  know having kids
• 24:24
  definitely slows you down and then the couple of years before
• 24:27
  that I had started
• 24:29
  you know going to the barbecue and just driving because I
• 24:33
  couldn't be bothered just
• 24:34
  have like one or two drinks and then be trying basically the
• 24:37
  taxi availability in
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wanaka
• 24:41
  was the start of me giving up alcohol because we'd book a
• 24:45
  babysitter we'd be ready
• 24:47
  to go home at like 11 or midnight and be waiting till one
• 24:50
  o'clock in the morning
• 24:51
  paying the babysitter an extra hour and freezing cold waiting
• 24:54
  for a taxi and I got
• 24:56
  to the point I was like oh I'll just drive I'll just drive so
• 24:58
  that started and then
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: on New Year's Eve 2021
• 25:05
  We went to a house party me and my husband and I said I can't
• 25:09
  be bothered waiting
• 25:10
  for the taxi we'll just get a bike we'll just ride our bikes
• 25:13
  and go home early we
• 25:15
  didn't go home early we waited until midnight got on our bikes
• 25:18
  had too many drinks
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: husband fell off his bike
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: New Year's Day 2022 we ended up in the medical centre,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: he had cracked his ribs and it was kind of,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: still COVID-y time so with the face masks on I could smell
• 25:38
  My alcohol just coming back into my system and then I got home
• 25:43
  that night I wrote
• 25:44
  down today's the day I give up and I did I said here's the
• 25:48
  reasons why I'm doing it
• 25:49
  for my kids doing it for my husband I'm doing it for myself and
• 25:54
  yeah I gave up so
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: that you know
• 26:02
  I think I was so worried for so long about the social
• 26:07
  situations where I would have
• 26:08
  to be like oh no I'm fine thanks I don't drink and What people
• 26:14
  would think about
• 26:15
  you or what was the worry Just sometimes you think that that's
• 26:20
  that's your
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: relationship with someone oh yeah we have a drink together you know and
• 26:26
  I think there's a thing where you think as well,
• 26:28
  oh,
• 26:28
  people will think I had a huge problem.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've learned is that everyone has a problem.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, all of society has problems.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're just on different scales for people.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I still get that sometimes.
• 26:41
  But now I'm just like,
• 26:42
  okay,
• 26:43
  you're saying that to me while you have a margarita in your
• 26:46
  hand.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever.
• 26:49
  But yeah so once I gave up alcohol and like looking back now
• 26:54
  it's completely
• 26:55
  textbook what happened to me at the time I didn't realize I was
• 27:00
  just like oh yeah
• 27:01
  I'm gonna give up alcohol like this is it and people were like
• 27:04
  oh for a few months
• 27:04
  or whatever I was like no like I am done I'm done so I had made
• 27:09
  that decision and
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: then I
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: I just like had to retrain myself of how to go about life.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would go to parties and just feel so vulnerable.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, I thought I was confident.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: But was I just confident because I had a drink in my hand?
• 27:32
  And I've just had to find a whole new way of navigating those
• 27:39
  sort of social situations.
• 27:42
  which has been really good so yeah I like I sort of gave up
• 27:46
  alcohol and when did I yeah
• 27:52
  I don't know and I just follow again Irish Writers Centre and I
• 27:58
  did a course like
• 28:00
  it was like I think over like three months once a week in that
• 28:06
  I was on like from 5
• 28:07
  until 7am in the morning and it was a writing course called The
• 28:10
  Art of Memoir which
• 28:12
  like I basically just did because I liked the bio of the
• 28:16
  teacher and yeah started
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: writing there
• 28:22
  Started salsa dancing Went to therapy Started doing cold water
• 28:30
  dips Every day in
• 28:32
  May with a bunch of friends And I signed up to a marathon and
• 28:36
  went to New York and
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: ran a marathon Wow,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: you're kind of textbook,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: yeah
• 28:40
  Totally textbook I didn't think I was that obvious but There
• 28:44
  were some holes being
• 28:45
  filled or Yeah yeah yeah and just like I just felt like a
• 28:49
  complete slowing down of
• 28:51
  my mind and really feeling in tune with myself and in tune with
• 28:57
  the environment
• 28:58
  around me and you know as part of therapy and everything just
• 29:02
  getting my confidence
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: back just learning to
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to myself and to hear myself because,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: throughout the years,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just kept myself so busy.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was sort of like I knew who I was and my values and everything.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I was so busy trying to achieve, achieve, achieve.
• 29:26
  And sometimes when things are bubbling up,
• 29:28
  I would feel that I would bury those feelings.
• 29:33
  with a new hobby or with like a career choice or something so
• 29:37
  yeah I felt very very
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: at peace with myself and I
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sorry, back to writing.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you asked me about.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Started writing.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what happened?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Me and a few girls were in a hut for my friend's 40th out near Aspiring.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was an Aspiring hut.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was like some hunter's hut beforehand.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like
• 30:05
  Mice slash rat infested were some very big mice so we're in
• 30:12
  this hut and because I
• 30:13
  said oh no it was before I started the writing course so we're
• 30:17
  in this hut and oh
• 30:19
  sleep we're just lying there we could feel mice just running
• 30:21
  over our legs all
• 30:22
  night and everyone was just like blanking going will we walk
• 30:26
  out now in the dark
• 30:28
  This is pre giving up alcohol or post giving up alcohol okay so
• 30:32
  January and then
• 30:33
  her birthday is March so March I had signed up to do this
• 30:37
  writing course but I
• 30:37
  hadn't started yet and then this night in March we were lying
• 30:41
  there and I just
• 30:43
  wrote a poem on my phone which was just a poem about writing a
• 30:48
  poem being like you
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: need to write
• 30:52
  What are you going to write about and then I because I suppose
• 30:55
  that's the thing I
• 30:56
  was like what do I am like what am I going to tell people like
• 31:00
  and I just like hate
• 31:02
  saying a preachy but I was like oh well I'll just it was only
• 31:07
  for me and I was just
• 31:08
  telling myself what I need to write about and I ended up
• 31:11
  writing a poem and it's
• 31:13
  kind of spoken word it's not it's not like not beautiful
• 31:17
  language or too deep it's
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: pretty
• 31:23
  Pretty understandable but I wrote a poem that was talking about
• 31:28
  you know well you
• 31:29
  could write about your parents you could write about your
• 31:30
  friends you could write
• 31:31
  about your kids you can write about trauma you can write about
• 31:34
  women you can write
• 31:35
  about nature and hikes and your dog and like your husband and
• 31:41
  all these things and
• 31:42
  I got up and I said it at Creative Juices here in Wanaka and I
• 31:46
  cried my eyes out in
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: the middle of it
• 31:48
  because I'd never done anything like that before but yeah I
• 31:51
  loved it I loved it and
• 31:53
  I just started that course I enjoyed that so much and I still
• 32:01
  regret it because
• 32:02
  like because of GDPR over in Europe we couldn't share every
• 32:07
  they couldn't share
• 32:07
  everyone on the courses email addresses and so all these mostly
• 32:12
  women incredible
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: women of all ages
• 32:16
  and I never got to meet them in person or I've never been able
• 32:19
  to stay in touch
• 32:20
  with them because I don't know I was so engrossed in the course
• 32:23
  I never like
• 32:25
  sneakily got their names and put them into Instagram or
• 32:28
  anything so but yeah I
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: loved that and What was the name of the course and where was it?
• 32:33
  The Art of Memoir it's with the Irish Writers Centre online
• 32:37
  just did it online yeah
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So a global online thing, run out of Ireland?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Run out of Ireland,
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 32:42
  you can join it from anywhere in the world as long as you can
• 32:45
  get up in the middle
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: of the night.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so live online, it's not, yeah, okay, got it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the storytelling now, the personal storytelling.
• 32:53
  So,
• 32:54
  I mean,
• 32:54
  I'm sort of thinking that almost like a pep talk poem that you
• 32:57
  wrote.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your first ever poem?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And has that then led to other poems?
• 33:02
  Or what's the form now that you say when it's personal,
• 33:05
  when it's just for yourself?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: What's your go-to format when you're writing?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I'm a bit lost on that point at the moment of where I'm at.
• 33:15
  So that poem has almost the first one I wrote has almost been
• 33:20
  an agenda for me and
• 33:22
  I'm I'm tossing up whether it's an agenda like a contents page
• 33:28
  for a book or about
• 33:30
  just about life or if it's but I've naturally also started
• 33:35
  writing poems on each of
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: those themes and not not giving myself
• 33:40
  Not being like right you have to tick each line of that poem
• 33:43
  off but that's just
• 33:44
  what's naturally started happening so yeah I'm just so open to
• 33:48
  the world of spoken
• 33:50
  word and different ways to connect to people and I've just
• 33:54
  started following
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: different people online and being like oh that is
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that is, but it's cool.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose I,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I probably missed out on the I became a wedding celebrant along the way.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that was part of that big change of moving to Wanaka.
• 34:10
  I had always wanted,
• 34:11
  not always,
• 34:12
  but for a few years had the idea of being a wedding celebrant.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when we came here, we did that and
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:20
  in in my reviews and those corporate jobs where I said I wanted
• 34:25
  to do more writing.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I started doing it as a celebrant,
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: this is the kind of writing I want to do.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I never knew this was even an option as a job.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I've found my way here somehow.
• 34:39
  and so I've loved writing ceremonies that's what's got me like
• 34:45
  got that writing
• 34:45
  side of me active because it's not just me doing it as a hobby
• 34:50
  I'm doing it as a
• 34:50
  job now so it's the discipline of that being like right I need
• 34:54
  to write something
• 34:55
  I've got a deadline and I've you know keeping that writing side
• 35:01
  of my brain active
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: constantly by always writing ceremonies and trying to
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Tell people's stories in a really authentic way, but not be boring.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 35:09
  you still have to be entertaining to some extent and be real
• 35:14
  and connect with
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: people,
• 35:15
  whether you've got whether it's just the two of them eloping or
• 35:18
  whether it's,
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: a guest list of 100.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that has been really good to get me active.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then
• 35:28
  I suppose what I realised then was I'm always telling other
• 35:33
  people's story but no
• 35:34
  one knows anything about me and to write about yourself is a
• 35:39
  very hard thing to do
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: and
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I suddenly,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 35:44
  because sometimes I have people talking about writing their
• 35:46
  vase and they're
• 35:48
  absolutely shit in their pants about saying their vase in front
• 35:52
  of everyone.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you're going to be fine.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to be fine.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it came to me standing on stage,
• 35:57
  I just cried my eyes out and couldn't pull myself together
• 36:00
  because it is a really
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: vulnerable thing to talk about yourself.
• 36:06
  to a group of strangers or even people you know sometimes to
• 36:08
  people you know it's
• 36:09
  harder you know I get more nervous for wedding ceremonies if
• 36:13
  it's friends and I
• 36:13
  know the people in the crowd than I do of strangers but yeah
• 36:18
  that's storytelling I
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: just yeah so do you know the do you know the podcast The Moth
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it started in America.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a format where people get up.
• 36:30
  You've got five minutes and you have to tell a story that's
• 36:34
  true and that's about you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't tell a story about someone else.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually started listening to that on maternity leave.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I must be 11 years ago now.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I've always followed along.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I used to be pitching that.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: to Air New Zealand.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, we need to do a podcast about stories on planes.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Great idea.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Great idea.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what do you like?
• 37:02
  I've got a story like one about how my my brother met his wife
• 37:07
  on a ski holiday and
• 37:08
  she has a fear of flying and she turned around at the airport
• 37:12
  and her friends
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: literally like pushed her onto the airplane and they met on the holiday.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Knock on that plane.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I like Yeah, I just think there's lots of stories in that.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe we could do that another time.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's very different talking about yourself.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just something I wanted to explore.
• 37:35
  And I had a so I've started store like some nights at Creative
• 37:39
  Juices,
• 37:39
  I do poems.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some nights I do storytelling.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I just write some haiku because that's all I've got time to do.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: But the storytelling,
• 37:48
  it's just it's an incredible night and experience to go to hear
• 37:53
  people be really
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: vulnerable.
• 37:58
  to learn from their life lessons and something really magic
• 38:02
  happens those nights
• 38:04
  yeah I heard a definition actually just last week which I
• 38:08
  hadn't heard before for
• 38:10
  vulnerability around that it's your capacity to be heard which
• 38:14
  I thought was a
• 38:14
  beautiful definition I think from Gabo Mate but I've seen one
• 38:19
  of the stories that
• 38:20
  you've told very personal so it's difficult to get up and talk
• 38:23
  about yourself I
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: think for many of us but to actually get up and to be that
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Transparent and honest about such a big event in your life.
• 38:34
  How was that in terms of the feelings beforehand during and
• 38:38
  afterwards and
• 38:39
  particularly during I noticed there was some sort of nervous
• 38:41
  laughter coming
• 38:42
  through and I don't think some of the audience knew quite what
• 38:45
  you were talking
• 38:45
  about and then you could tell well shit that there's not a lot
• 38:48
  of laughter
• 38:49
  happening now I think no this has really landed people know
• 38:51
  what what this is about
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: now.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: What was that experience like in the moment?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit like lights, camera, action and you just have to talk.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's no.
• 39:04
  So with this format,
• 39:05
  you can't do a little ramble to explain yourself beforehand.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to tell the story.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I had it rehearsed.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I never wrote it down.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just rehearsed it and rehearsed it while I was out for walks.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just looked like a mad woman going around Wanaka talking to myself.
• 39:23
  Out for walks in the car a lot when I'm in the car by myself
• 39:26
  just practicing and
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: practicing and you have to
• 39:31
  then read the room a little bit and some pauses and stuff just
• 39:35
  for context.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: So my story,
• 39:37
  the theme for the night was Goosebumps and it was coming up to
• 39:40
  around Halloween
• 39:41
  time and my story was about having a miscarriage and then my
• 39:46
  kids years later the
• 39:49
  youngest one kind of retelling what happened in the miscarriage
• 39:54
  as if it was his
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: story and it was really spooky and one of those moments where I was like
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, what does he know?
• 40:02
  And you hadn't told him or hadn't talked to him about it
• 40:04
  neither of you right?
• 40:05
  No no never told him about it so on the night actually sorry to
• 40:09
  go into detail but
• 40:10
  I talked about you know I was you know it was probably that a
• 40:13
  period of my life
• 40:14
  that I've talked about where like I wasn't in tune with myself
• 40:17
  and I was so busy
• 40:18
  like entertaining and planning travel and catching up with
• 40:23
  people and partying and
• 40:24
  everything that like I didn't know I was pregnant and then on
• 40:28
  the way back to
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had a miscarriage on the plane,
• 40:32
  which was actually another reason why Alvair New Zealand
• 40:36
  because the flight
• 40:38
  attendant was so kind to me and she took my hand and they took
• 40:42
  such great care of
• 40:43
  me that I was like this is this is an amazing person who's
• 40:48
  helping me but an
• 40:49
  amazing brand but yeah and so the night of that when I was
• 40:53
  telling that story so
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: that weird laughter that happened in the
• 40:57
  So a girl thought I was explaining doing a shit and that's why
• 41:02
  there's a laughter
• 41:04
  and I was like oh no what dropped out of me was a fetus oh no
• 41:09
  not no not a fetus
• 41:13
  yeah yes so she laughed and then it was like oh that's awkward
• 41:19
  so then I had to
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: wait for that to land on her and then she was like oh
• 41:25
  And then I had to continue so like when I get up and do open
• 41:28
  mics mic nights and
• 41:30
  stuff like I just do them locally I'm not like on a global or
• 41:35
  national scale but I
• 41:37
  am nervous and I'm nervous throughout the whole thing and I'm
• 41:41
  still shaking going
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: to bed that night but
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just you just have to deliver it.
• 41:48
  You've got no you've got no other choice only to be honest with
• 41:51
  people and finish the story.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't just be like, I'm going to sit down.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 41:59
  it was it's just the girls at Neighbourhood Slam set a gorgeous
• 42:05
  atmosphere for
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: people to be heard and the audience really respecting that and everyone
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: actively wants to be there and to support the people on it so it's a very
• 42:16
  supportive environment so you don't you don't feel judged
• 42:20
  whatsoever people are
• 42:21
  just like grateful that you're honest what is it that pulled
• 42:26
  you toward becoming a
• 42:27
  celebrant what is the the thing there so the writing you
• 42:31
  enjoyed or you enjoy as
• 42:33
  part of the process sounds like you weren't aware that that was
• 42:36
  going to be the
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: part of the the pull initially what was the the initial pull around that
• 42:43
  Well I just I just so we got married 11 years ago in Ireland
• 42:50
  and we had an an
• 42:51
  independent celebrant and I suppose I had only really gone to a
• 42:58
  lot of Catholic
• 42:59
  weddings in churches so I didn't really know what an
• 43:02
  independent ceremony was or
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: how it ran and
• 43:06
  We literally just like found a company I think a group of
• 43:11
  people gave them our date
• 43:12
  they said yeah great and then I met the woman on the day I
• 43:18
  contacted her that week
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: been like hey you know do you need anything from us or like so
• 43:27
  I had my we had our ceremony and then afterwards I was like,
• 43:31
  I could do a better job of that.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, and I'd love to do it.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like what a cool job to do.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I was like, that could be so much more personal.
• 43:42
  and you know you have the freedom it's an independent so you
• 43:46
  don't have to follow a
• 43:47
  church structure so yeah we like we our ceremony was fine we
• 43:51
  laugh about it but it
• 43:54
  wasn't exactly about us as a couple so I so since that ceremony
• 43:59
  I was like oh I
• 44:01
  would love to do that I think I could do a really good job of
• 44:04
  that and then I had
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: the idea in my head for years but you know didn't have time to
• 44:08
  Trained to be a celebrant or didn't have time to actually do
• 44:11
  ceremonies and then
• 44:12
  when we moved down here it was time for change in our lives and
• 44:16
  I was like okay
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: now's my time and I didn't even know
• 44:21
  The wedding scene in Wanaka was so big or I was just like oh I
• 44:27
  have time to do this
• 44:28
  now I'm gonna do it and I have loved it and you know when
• 44:33
  you're like I always my
• 44:35
  friend in Ireland who used to say or who says the what's for
• 44:40
  you won't pass it she
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: used to always say as well that she loved her job and I was like really
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that possible?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a job.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Job and love.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do those things get together?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really like my job.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really liked my job at Airbnb.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if love, you know?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: I did love it at New Zealand, but I didn't feel like I had found my love.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't your calling, so to say.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, calling.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's better.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I did like I have some really nice comments from people being like,
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: you found your calling like after ceremonies and stuff.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that was cool.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 45:19
  Thank you for the validation but yeah so so so it was just time
• 45:24
  for change in my
• 45:25
  life when we moved here this is my chance to do it and I love
• 45:32
  it beyond words like
• 45:34
  the people I have met and the stories I've heard from people
• 45:38
  people being open to
• 45:39
  me with their stories and the guests and connections I've made
• 45:43
  have just been
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: pretty pretty incredible and just really cup-filling
• 45:49
  I imagine I mean you're obviously a person that's okay with
• 45:52
  pressure you've had a
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: lot of pressure through your professional life already but the weight of
• 45:57
  responsibility of performing like that on two peoples and the
• 46:02
  associated if it's a
• 46:04
  larger event on that sort of their most important day their
• 46:07
  biggest day that
• 46:08
  they're getting into how do you prepare for that sort of in the
• 46:12
  hours or so leading
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: up to the ceremony?
• 46:15
  What podcast I listened to recently I can't remember where they
• 46:19
  talked about like
• 46:20
  you when you're speaking you can't be inside your own head that
• 46:27
  you have to
• 46:28
  remember why you're there and sit yourself in the audience
• 46:31
  looking back at you
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: speaking which
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: while you're doing it in the moment.
• 46:39
  Take yourself out of your head and listen to yourself and does
• 46:43
  it connect and does
• 46:44
  it mean anything to the people and I remember like kind of like
• 46:48
  that lights camera
• 46:49
  action moment from the from the open mic night my first wedding
• 46:53
  you know it was
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: like okay
• 46:56
  I couldn't back out of it I just had to start speaking And then
• 47:00
  you just have to be
• 47:01
  like It's not about you It's not about me It's about the couple
• 47:05
  And if you are
• 47:06
  there just for them Then it comes across In terms of preparing
• 47:12
  Look some days I'm
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: like
• 47:15
  Dressed up hair makeup all done in my dress and I'm still like
• 47:20
  scrubbing a toilet
• 47:21
  or hanging out clothes or you know still having to pull in
• 47:26
  fights apart at home
• 47:27
  from the kids and it's like I have to go I have to go but I try
• 47:31
  and get there early
• 47:33
  I give myself a bit of breathing space before I get in and
• 47:36
  sometimes I do this
• 47:37
  little meditation a guided meditation and that's like it's
• 47:41
  about wishing people
• 47:42
  well so you you picture the couple and you like basically give
• 47:48
  them all the love
• 47:48
  that you've got and just be like what do you wish for them you
• 47:52
  wish for them health
• 47:53
  happiness peace and contentment and then you kind of visualize
• 47:58
  them being so happy
• 48:00
  and I can see it into the exact headspace you need to go into
• 48:03
  it because it's just
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: not about me it's about them.
• 48:06
  Are there clients you turn down that you think you I'm getting
• 48:10
  such a bad vibe off
• 48:11
  this person or there's something weird going on here or no I
• 48:13
  just I don't think
• 48:14
  this is right or these people shouldn't be getting married or
• 48:17
  how does that is that
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: does that come up?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Not often not often I think
• 48:25
  probably the greatest thing the job has taught me is that love
• 48:30
  comes in all
• 48:32
  different forms like yeah like some couples are so functional
• 48:40
  together but that's
• 48:42
  how they operate and they love it and it might not and you know
• 48:45
  and some couples
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: come to me and be like oh I saw that but like we'd hate that and I'm like
• 48:50
  Yeah but that's good but they loved it you know so I think
• 48:54
  there are definitely
• 48:55
  different types of love I think there are love some marriages
• 49:01
  I've done and I truly
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: believe they are the best friends in the whole wide world and maybe
• 49:08
  the sparks not there like it is with other couples but they are
• 49:12
  committing to being
• 49:14
  that person for each other for the rest of their lives so it's
• 49:16
  still amazing and
• 49:17
  really special and it's a trick because you can't judge someone
• 49:22
  you know you can't
• 49:22
  be like oh I don't know if that's right because if it's right
• 49:26
  for them then who are
• 49:28
  you to say you know and I don't yeah yeah I don't know I've
• 49:33
  never like turned down
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: anyone or
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in that position.
• 49:42
  On the cast area,
• 49:43
  on the way to the ceremony,
• 49:45
  on the way to the event then,
• 49:46
  is it a podcast?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something completely unrelated?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is it Barry White?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the Cranberries?
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is it sort of a hard out charge?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: What are you listening to?
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Usually a female artist.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Last year was Chapel Rhone.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: This year was Lily Allen.
• 50:00
  her new album Olivia Dean yeah I'll just drink a can of Coke's
• 50:07
  ear sugar and sing
• 50:12
  to get you in the mood to get you in the frame yeah bring the
• 50:15
  joy and the vibes and
• 50:16
  yeah and then carry that on into the into the ceremony yeah
• 50:19
  yeah that's awesome
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: what what's the difference in between between elopements between
• 50:25
  and for you in that role so between a very small group of
• 50:28
  people or you know bride
• 50:30
  and groom essentially and larger weddings wedding you know
• 50:40
  you've got you've got a
• 50:41
  bigger audience to consider so it is a bit more about your
• 50:46
  delivery and and
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: communicating that whereas an elopement
• 50:52
  You can go a bit off script a bit easier because it's just if
• 50:56
  it's just the couple
• 50:57
  like like yesterday I had an elopement and I had written about
• 51:02
  what had I written
• 51:02
  about oh had they like unapologetically themselves and they
• 51:06
  love like they love
• 51:07
  nine o'clock bedtime like that's their ideal Friday night and
• 51:11
  then you know we on
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: the way we had just been talking about
• 51:14
  and they had dinner at eight and it was so late booked for last
• 51:17
  night so then
• 51:18
  during the ceremony I was like oh god you're really pushing the
• 51:20
  boat on your
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: wedding day to have dinner at eight o'clock tonight so it's a bit more
• 51:24
  conversational and they got it and I got it but if that if they
• 51:28
  had a hundred
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: guests I couldn't say
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: because they told me earlier,
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: they're actually going for dinner eight o'clock,
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:35
  so you're a bit more structured and how you deliver a ceremony
• 51:38
  for a bigger when
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: there's lots of guests.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: But when there's smaller amount,
• 51:43
  it feels a bit more conversational and people can chime in or
• 51:47
  we can go a bit off
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: piece and then get back on track.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot more relaxed.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's your calling and you love it and it's fantastic,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: most jobs and roles have some form of downside.
• 52:00
  What's the hardest part about being a celebrant that people
• 52:02
  perhaps don't talk about?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've written a poem about it.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Go for it.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, I don't have it.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: But the hardest part is so I think I don't think my poem has a name yet.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: But the hardest part is
• 52:23
  when you're married is when you're having a not so great time
• 52:29
  in your marriage or
• 52:30
  not not a not great time but you're going through arguments or
• 52:33
  you're you're like
• 52:34
  you're in the throes of it you're like right what what have you
• 52:39
  got on tomorrow
• 52:40
  okay I'm going to like can you take the boy swimming because
• 52:43
  I've got a ceremony
• 52:44
  and then I need to do that and then someone messes up the plan
• 52:47
  and then you're
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: pissed off
• 52:49
  and like and then you're reading these questionnaires from the
• 52:51
  couples that are
• 52:52
  like this other person cannot put a foot wrong like he brings
• 52:57
  me this that and the
• 52:57
  other and then you're like okay fuck right need to leave my
• 53:04
  life behind and just
• 53:06
  like and you're really happy for this couple but you're like oh
• 53:12
  I can't I can't put
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: my negativity onto them right now so
• 53:17
  That's yeah The realities of daily married life Yes Leaking
• 53:22
  into your role as a
• 53:23
  celebrant basically around the joy of for those for those for
• 53:27
  that couple for the
• 53:29
  happy couple No I don't think I don't think it's leaking into
• 53:31
  the life I think it's
• 53:33
  this happy couple making me reflect on my life Right Got it
• 53:39
  Feel like oh god we
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: need to go on a date Yeah
• 53:46
  You know because in their beds they're like and I promise to
• 53:48
  always make time for
• 53:49
  each other that's one that people say and I love that for them
• 53:53
  but then I'm in the
• 53:54
  thick of it going that is really that's really hard to always
• 53:57
  make time for each
• 53:58
  other and I love where these people are in their relationship
• 54:03
  right now that they
• 54:05
  And they might do that,
• 54:07
  you know,
• 54:08
  and I love that they're so in that bubble.
• 54:12
  And then I miss it because you're like,
• 54:15
  oh,
• 54:16
  it's hard to find time just for us.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see yourself as a romantic?
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 54:24
  No no oh like oh i'm a softy and it's like one of the things i
• 54:30
  always think about
• 54:31
  because people talk about soulmates like they find their
• 54:34
  soulmate and and i i like
• 54:38
  i understand their belief in that but i don't know if i
• 54:40
  necessarily understand
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: believe in soulmates i i don't you know i i think
• 54:46
  Life can go in so many different directions and you could meet
• 54:50
  so many people that
• 54:51
  might be right for you at the time or you know I just I just
• 54:57
  don't think I think
• 54:59
  you know I've done weddings for couples who are on their second
• 55:03
  marriage or
• 55:04
  widowers you know or like I think you can still find people and
• 55:10
  maybe they're all
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: your soulmates I don't know I don't know if there's just one soulmate
• 55:15
  Yeah an old friend of mine once said to me he said the way he
• 55:18
  defined it was it's
• 55:20
  all about base level compatibility and the rest is compromise
• 55:23
  yes yeah it's a
• 55:24
  pretty realistic way and that was after a failed marriage on
• 55:28
  his side but I thought
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: that was an interesting way of framing it
• 55:32
  Yeah,
• 55:32
  and I hear that a lot just coming through and people on their
• 55:35
  second marriage.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: We were both on the same page of what we wanted in life.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I think there's romance.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's romance in that.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Have you had a ceremony go wrong that you'd say,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: that this is,
• 55:52
  you couldn't have learnt this and perhaps in another way of
• 55:56
  what can happen in a
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: situation like that?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh...
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: there's nothing,
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when people talk to you about being they're like,
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: have you had any bridesillas,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: which I hate that term?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or have you had things go wrong?
• 56:13
  And generally,
• 56:14
  there's not really dramatic things that happen that go off,
• 56:21
  you know,
• 56:23
  It's just about how you handle the things like I don't you know
• 56:26
  I do get nervous
• 56:27
  when people come to me and they're like we're looking for the
• 56:29
  perfect celebrant and
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like oh The perfect what sorry?
• 56:31
  Celebrant Okay and I'm like well I'm not perfect Jesus but I'm
• 56:36
  very okay with
• 56:37
  making mistakes and if I say something wrong I'll just take the
• 56:41
  piss out of myself
• 56:43
  because you know I can't pretend that I'm perfect because I'm
• 56:47
  not but I think no
• 56:49
  you just learn to hone your craft it's like oh I'm gonna I
• 56:52
  might try this one day
• 56:53
  and it doesn't work and it's it's not the end of the world but
• 56:57
  it's not a disaster
• 56:58
  and you just go oh next time I'll tweak it a little bit or I'll
• 57:01
  try something
• 57:02
  different so yeah it's just honing your craft nothing
• 57:05
  dramatically has gone wrong
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: things happen like things happen like
• 57:09
  Speakers fall over with the wind and glasses smash and there's
• 57:15
  family dynamics to
• 57:16
  manage sometimes too but no nothing nothing nothing to write
• 57:20
  home about you
• 57:22
  mentioned before about people shitting their pants and really
• 57:25
  losing their shit in
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: that situation the pressure of
• 57:29
  getting married and particularly in a large event or in front
• 57:32
  of a lot of people.
• 57:33
  Have you developed techniques and things that you help people
• 57:36
  in that situation
• 57:37
  where you can see okay they're losing their shit they need some
• 57:39
  they need some help
• 57:40
  and maybe the the bridesmaids not delivering or the the
• 57:43
  groomsmen or whoever it is
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: that is perhaps who that would be their role.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Are there things that you've had to do in that situation?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's just
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's just being a good person to someone,
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: like if I see a groom's really nervous,
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just,
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just shoot the priest.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just talk absolute shit to him or I'll tell him,
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: something embarrassing about myself or something,
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:10
  like just talk about something that happened in the day and you
• 58:12
  just take their
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: mind off it and then and then they calm their nerves a bit.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you read it, you read it during a ceremony.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: If people like are really stiff
• 58:22
  and they're sort of looking around at the side,
• 58:24
  you know,
• 58:25
  they're not in the moment.
• 58:27
  And then you just have to say something or make eye contact
• 58:30
  with them or get them
• 58:31
  to make eye contact with each other to just ground themselves
• 58:34
  or remind them to
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: take a breath and relax their shoulders.
• 58:37
  You know,
• 58:37
  there's all these,
• 58:39
  you know,
• 58:39
  all the basics in life that you need to do to calm down.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just reminding someone to do that and and,
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: writing it into ceremony to be like,
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: you've done it.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: You've planned this whole thing and now we're here to enjoy it.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah,
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm quite calm in those situations and people read that,
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: then people calm down as well,
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you could put together the,
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: as the perfect celebrant,
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: if you could put together the perfect ceremony,
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: no constraints,
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: what would that look like?
• 59:24
  I would love so I would love more people to get involved in the
• 59:29
  ceremony where the
• 59:31
  guests stand up I've seen it I've seen it done in the UK and I
• 59:35
  loved I would love
• 59:38
  guests to stand up and not give a speech but like just give a
• 59:43
  little story about
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: the couple like one story each say if there was like
• 59:50
  100 guests we get 10 people stand up and say one story each and
• 59:54
  then somehow I wrap
• 59:55
  that all together and then make it all reflective of the couple
• 59:59
  that would be
• 1:00:00
  really cool to do so I might try and pitch that to someone but
• 1:00:03
  a lot of people are
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: like oh no we don't want
• 1:00:07
  We don't want people to get up and do readings or whatever so
• 1:00:11
  that's okay but I
• 1:00:12
  understand too what I yeah what I've really learned is that
• 1:00:15
  people get so nervous
• 1:00:18
  guests do the ring bear is always really nervous like so I
• 1:00:22
  think if people if you
• 1:00:24
  asked someone to you know get up and talk they might not
• 1:00:29
  actually enjoy the
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: ceremony then because they're too worried about being nervous
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: As the guest Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: But perfect ceremony.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: Look, it's where I where they give me loads of information.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got loads to work with.
• 1:00:44
  And then I can make a good and ones where they're just doing
• 1:00:48
  what's real for them.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can just tell the ones that are really authentic.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if they're big.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: The Unmaking The Unmaking
• 1:01:16
  You ask that question because I mean there is in some degree
• 1:01:19
  there is for I think
• 1:01:20
  many weddings there is a slightly performative aspect to it
• 1:01:24
  because you are really
• 1:01:25
  you know in a bigger event you're putting yourself on show and
• 1:01:28
  so you know people
• 1:01:29
  will want the show to go off to their expectations or they will
• 1:01:32
  be comparing
• 1:01:33
  themselves to other weddings they've gone to and that they know
• 1:01:36
  their friends were
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: at as well so do you work with them to help them
• 1:01:42
  Try and sort of remain true to themselves and their values The
• 1:01:50
  ceremony is very
• 1:01:51
  different to the rest of the wedding so the ceremony I'm
• 1:01:54
  getting those true parts
• 1:01:56
  and it's the it's a very real part I think the speeches as well
• 1:02:00
  later on but it's
• 1:02:02
  more so like I emcee some weddings as well and it's more so
• 1:02:07
  like if there's couples
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: that want to do games
• 1:02:12
  and you know guest participation and stuff really needs to be
• 1:02:18
  them and like that
• 1:02:21
  they do games nights all the time and stuff you know it's their
• 1:02:24
  thing rather than
• 1:02:24
  something they saw on social media yeah yeah yeah but that it
• 1:02:28
  comes out it comes
• 1:02:29
  out in the wash all that stuff because you send examples
• 1:02:32
  because people think they
• 1:02:32
  might want to do games or something and then you go okay here's
• 1:02:35
  some examples and
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: they go oh actually
• 1:02:37
  It just feels a bit forced so people come to that realization
• 1:02:41
  themselves yeah but
• 1:02:42
  but the ceremony is different because it's i feel like there's
• 1:02:47
  less pressure on
• 1:02:48
  this i i feel a celebrant i have less pressure than the
• 1:02:52
  photographer or the
• 1:02:54
  caterers or the venue you know like i get less questions than
• 1:02:58
  everyone else
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of from the planners and things like that.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and from the cobble.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: How set are their expectations beforehand in terms of because,
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:03:08
  I'm assuming previously it was just about the weddings that you
• 1:03:12
  had been to
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: personally or other people had told you about,
• 1:03:17
  whereas now you can pretty much see any Hall of Fame wedding
• 1:03:21
  ceremony online,
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: find out what happened or what happens.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would like one of these, please.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what people are coming to?
• 1:03:28
  to you with or are they more hey what are we going to do how
• 1:03:32
  are we going to do
• 1:03:33
  this no it's definitely more personality fit oh yeah like we
• 1:03:40
  like that style we
• 1:03:42
  think that we think your style will suit us and so it's
• 1:03:46
  definitely personality fit
• 1:03:47
  because you know at the end of the day everyone's doing the
• 1:03:52
  same job any other
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: celebrant we're going and getting people married
• 1:03:56
  We're signing papers like that is the basics of our job the KPI
• 1:04:01
  the core KPI is
• 1:04:03
  only deliverable is to send those documents off and then it
• 1:04:06
  just comes down to
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: who's the right fit for you and it's the same like
• 1:04:10
  with photographers because they're spending the whole day with
• 1:04:13
  them someone might
• 1:04:14
  like take amazing photos but you just might not gel you might
• 1:04:18
  have completely
• 1:04:18
  different approaches to life and sometimes you might want
• 1:04:24
  certain like photographs
• 1:04:26
  and the photographers not into that style or something so yeah
• 1:04:30
  I think everything
• 1:04:31
  with weddings should like I always say to couples there's a
• 1:04:35
  standard in Wanaka
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: that's really high and we're very lucky so you're not going to go
• 1:04:41
  You're not going to go wrong with anyone you choose it's just
• 1:04:43
  about who feels right
• 1:04:45
  for you and who you want to have a laugh with and who you talk
• 1:04:48
  to you know Legally
• 1:04:52
  in New Zealand I think we still require two witnesses at a
• 1:04:56
  ceremony so in an
• 1:04:57
  elopement what do you notice that being present does to a
• 1:05:02
  witness in that sort of
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: setting and what sort of person makes a good witness
• 1:05:11
  The Witnesses Can Vary Yesterday we stopped a woman out for a
• 1:05:14
  run and she was a
• 1:05:16
  witness and she was so excited and it was so cool so she's in
• 1:05:20
  her like Kate I think
• 1:05:23
  her name was Kate yeah it was Kate she's in like her training
• 1:05:26
  gear she was on a 25k
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: run she's training to training to run
• 1:05:33
  I like 100k run in December in Nelson or something somewhere
• 1:05:37
  anyway crazy but I
• 1:05:39
  think you know when when I do elopements where say it's just
• 1:05:44
  the couples both their
• 1:05:45
  parents or selected friends those people feel really chosen and
• 1:05:51
  are really present
• 1:05:53
  they they feel the honor of it and they're getting texts from
• 1:05:58
  the family back
• 1:05:59
  wherever to be like get some photos they're like we're not
• 1:06:02
  allowed we just have
• 1:06:03
  Present so yeah I think they really see the honour of that but
• 1:06:06
  also you know in
• 1:06:09
  bigger weddings too I like to try and mention that like they
• 1:06:15
  were all invited for a
• 1:06:16
  reason and it's important that they're there you know like that
• 1:06:20
  they feel present
• 1:06:24
  and that they've got a role as well not just to be there to
• 1:06:28
  fill numbers you know
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: yeah
• 1:06:31
  How do you prepare them for that then do you give them a sort
• 1:06:33
  of a team talk about
• 1:06:34
  what this represents or their role or and I just write it into
• 1:06:38
  the ceremony
• 1:06:39
  sometimes sometimes like just just reading the crowd and the
• 1:06:43
  couple like sometimes
• 1:06:44
  I ask them to make a commitment to the couple that past the day
• 1:06:48
  of their wedding
• 1:06:48
  that they'll actually support them in their marriage as well
• 1:06:51
  yeah and that kind of
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: just depends on whether it feels like the right crowd or not yeah yeah
• 1:06:58
  I feel like I need to also say about the like the romance and
• 1:07:02
  the soulmates and stuff.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: So my husband, I've done an open mic night story about this as well.
• 1:07:08
  But like I grew up in this town in Ireland and called Navon
• 1:07:12
  that is like it's not
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: really a tourist town.
• 1:07:16
  So if you go to Ireland,
• 1:07:18
  you're not really no one's ever going to pass through Navon.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just one of those towns.
• 1:07:24
  We have some of those towns in New Zealand I think Another one
• 1:07:28
  Yeah I won't name
• 1:07:29
  them So when I was in Australia working in an agency there was
• 1:07:34
  this Kiwi guy there
• 1:07:36
  and he was like where are you from and I suppose when you start
• 1:07:39
  travelling you
• 1:07:39
  learn to not give too much details because people actually
• 1:07:42
  don't know so you go oh
• 1:07:44
  yeah near Dublin and he was like oh whereabouts near Dublin and
• 1:07:49
  I was like oh a
• 1:07:50
  place called Meath he was like oh I used to work in Meath I was
• 1:07:53
  like oh right
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: whatever
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, no, I worked in a town called Navin.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what?
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is weird.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then like, he opens Google Maps and he's like,
• 1:08:07
  Pinpoints to Navon he's like yeah I used to because he lived in
• 1:08:10
  Dublin he did his
• 1:08:11
  OE in Dublin so he used to travel to Navon which is about an
• 1:08:15
  hour away and worked
• 1:08:16
  in the county council office made their website and I was like
• 1:08:22
  bullshit you know
• 1:08:23
  like I was like what like that's weird and well he like he knew
• 1:08:28
  the town so I was
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: like anyway and then like I got on to my sister
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: whose best friend used to work in the council.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, why don't you hear?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: This fellow at work worked in the council.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then she asked her friend and her friend was like,
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: oh my God,
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think her husband did work experience while he was there.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
• 1:08:50
  so like he used to get off the bus outside my school because I
• 1:08:54
  was still in
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: secondary school when he was on his OE.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's 10 years older than me.
• 1:08:58
  So he used to get off the bus outside my school and then just
• 1:09:01
  like cross the road
• 1:09:02
  to the county council office when I was like there like you
• 1:09:06
  know we probably
• 1:09:07
  crossed paths before so yeah I was like this is that's very
• 1:09:12
  weird but anyway yeah
• 1:09:13
  we ended up getting married so it all worked out but yeah I do
• 1:09:18
  think like that was
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: meant to be in some way you know that he already knew Navin and
• 1:09:25
  like I think at our wedding ceremony he opened a speech with
• 1:09:29
  when Siobhan first
• 1:09:30
  took me here it was like deja vu and it was just quite funny
• 1:09:33
  yeah so it's funny the
• 1:09:35
  way things work out so you've lived in Ireland America
• 1:09:40
  Australia New Zealand I
• 1:09:41
  think is that the list or are there other countries that you've
• 1:09:43
  lived in for longer
• 1:09:45
  periods no America was just summers it wasn't really full time
• 1:09:51
  you still probably
• 1:09:51
  will have picked things up from there and there will be things
• 1:09:54
  that you will be
• 1:09:56
  Giving to your children now what are the things that you say
• 1:09:59
  okay these are the
• 1:10:00
  things that are really important to me to give them from my own
• 1:10:04
  culture from Irish
• 1:10:05
  culture I think you know when I met my husband and he had spent
• 1:10:11
  the year in Ireland
• 1:10:12
  and loved Ireland like that was like I love that and he my
• 1:10:18
  husband will be watching
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: hurling and Gaelic football and knows all the
• 1:10:26
  All the results and what's going on in the championship and
• 1:10:29
  he'll be watching the
• 1:10:30
  highlights and stuff and I come in and he watches TG Cahar a
• 1:10:33
  lot which is like the
• 1:10:34
  Irish TV channel so he's very supportive which is really nice
• 1:10:39
  and yeah we play a
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: lot of Irish music in the house
• 1:10:43
  Not just traditional Irish music but Irish bands so the boys
• 1:10:46
  know that like it's
• 1:10:49
  part of our home that we have Irish bands happening a lot I try
• 1:10:54
  and take them back
• 1:10:55
  there as much as they can as much as we can so they understand
• 1:10:59
  their connections
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: back there but they they're they're mostly proud
• 1:11:05
  half Kiwi half Irish kids you know they'll come home and be
• 1:11:09
  like oh we had to do a
• 1:11:10
  project today and pick a country and they'll always pick
• 1:11:12
  Ireland I'm like yes
• 1:11:14
  that's it boys and it's funny they wear they basically get all
• 1:11:18
  their clothes from
• 1:11:19
  Ireland and their cousins so they're always going around in
• 1:11:22
  like GAA t-shirts and
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: jerseys and stuff so yeah they don't have a sniff of an Irish accent only
• 1:11:31
  Take the piss out of me sometimes with mine but yeah I can see
• 1:11:35
  it in them actually
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: they've got crack they're good crack
• 1:11:40
  That's good yeah that's the DNA right that's the most important
• 1:11:44
  thing that's the
• 1:11:44
  most important value we want them to uphold is that they're a
• 1:11:47
  bit of crack and
• 1:11:49
  they're yeah they're definitely definitely a bit of crack yeah
• 1:11:52
  yeah my husband's
• 1:11:53
  very very supportive of Ireland and what it's about so his name
• 1:11:59
  happens to be Darcy
• 1:12:00
  as well which sounds like an Irish name even though it's not
• 1:12:03
  what that's not where
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: it came from for him but
• 1:12:06
  Yeah I'm looking into seeing if we can get back there for a
• 1:12:10
  longer period and get
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_01: them a bit more immersed and go to school and stuff there but just a few
• 1:12:15
  difficulties with the price of rent over there at the moment to
• 1:12:20
  try and make that
• 1:12:21
  possible but yeah I really want them you know they talk about
• 1:12:24
  when they grow up
• 1:12:26
  that they want to go and live in Ireland or they might go to
• 1:12:28
  university there or
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_00: whatever so I would be very encouraging of that
• 1:12:33
  I teach them some bits of Irish language here and there but
• 1:12:36
  yeah I just they're
• 1:12:37
  proud of it and I like that makes makes me happy last question
• 1:12:43
  if you were
• 1:12:44
  designing a ceremony for your own life right now it's obviously
• 1:12:48
  not a wedding but
• 1:12:49
  what would that be for and what would that look like I'd be
• 1:12:54
  doing one for the girls
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_01: for women
• 1:12:59
  I would be doing some sort of well when me and the girls used
• 1:13:02
  to and we did that
• 1:13:03
  dip a day we were like yeah we look like we're in a cult so I
• 1:13:09
  would do I would lean
• 1:13:11
  into that and do so there was one day we were down at Penrith
• 1:13:15
  and it was so windy
• 1:13:18
  and freezing like the waves were smacking us in the face and we
• 1:13:21
  were all like
• 1:13:21
  trying to warm up running around in a circle in the dark with
• 1:13:25
  head torches on and I
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: was like oh shit
• 1:13:28
  We've gone over to the other side so I think I would do some
• 1:13:32
  sort of ceremony for
• 1:13:33
  women to celebrate ourselves remind ourselves how great we are
• 1:13:39
  everything we've
• 1:13:40
  been through and that first poem I ever wrote I talked about
• 1:13:44
  like friendships and
• 1:13:45
  hiking and women and the power of women and how we can
• 1:13:50
  understand each other
• 1:13:51
  without having to say much like we've got a whole set of
• 1:13:56
  languages that I don't
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: think
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: men can access sometimes.
• 1:14:00
  Anyway,
• 1:14:01
  me and a group of friends last year from here went to Portugal
• 1:14:05
  and walked the Camino.
• 1:14:07
  There was five of us,
• 1:14:09
  my best friend from Ireland and then four from here.
• 1:14:14
  Four out of five of us with young kids and stuff but like we
• 1:14:18
  made it happen and
• 1:14:19
  then we we joked like the whole theme for the whole thing was
• 1:14:23
  called fuck it,
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: bug it.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_01: We were like
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: There are many reasons Not to go on this trip But fuck it,
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: fuck it So then,
• 1:14:31
  yeah We went to Portugal We walked some of the Camino And then
• 1:14:34
  I wrote this poem So
• 1:14:35
  this is probably This will be at the This will be at the
• 1:14:38
  ceremony For the cult For
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: the women's cult It's called Bom Camino Portuguese Tarts
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it nice when we arrive in a new country to a new language?
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: We ask ChatGPT how to say hi and please and thank you.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: The basics to get you through life.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: The basics to not be a prick.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: The concept of fuck it, bug it became a reality.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: We met in airports like scenes from Love Actually, in disbelief.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Our Neon Backpacks screamed our excitement to the world.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: We did not blend in.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Bonds formed over long hot walks,
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: over cups of port at sunset,
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: over the hot train ticket guy,
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_01: over the hot policeman,
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: over the hot homeless guy who asked us for money.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Over the hot waiter,
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_01: over the hot barista,
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: over the hot men leaning against cars in white shirts and black trousers,
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_01: their occupation unknown.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Over hot dad, over hot dad's wife, over hot dad's dad.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_01: We were greeted with bomdias like the colours of Portugal.
• 1:15:47
  The tiled houses winking at us along the way,
• 1:15:49
  especially the baby pink and green ones.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Neighboring with houses tiled the shades of Saturday night fever.
• 1:15:56
  The wrinkled woman coming with groceries in hand on the dusty
• 1:16:00
  path was so eager to
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: give us her well wishes in her own tongue,
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: frustrated that we couldn't understand.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_01: But we could.
• 1:16:09
  Like migrating birds,
• 1:16:10
  we found our own pace,
• 1:16:12
  formations changing with the wind.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_01: No plan,
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_01: just going with instinct,
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_01: knowing who needed space,
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_01: who needed a chat,
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_01: who was having a wobble.
• 1:16:22
  Cups overflowed We felt heard without having to say a word We
• 1:16:27
  cheersed bowel
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_01: movements We got the backstory on relationships,
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: life,
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_01: the parts that are hard to talk about The mammograms,
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_01: partners,
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_01: exes,
• 1:16:36
  hairs on chins Plans for career changes Plans to one day open a
• 1:16:41
  daycare called
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Little Fuggers Sleep patterns,
• 1:16:44
  coffee and pastry patterns We understood each other's trauma as
• 1:16:48
  our own The
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_01: trenches we've all hauled ourselves out of
• 1:16:52
  But You Need To Understand Something Try To Charge These
• 1:16:56
  Bitches 45 Euro Instead Of
• 1:16:58
  What Should Have Been 4 Euro 50 And You Will Regret It Give
• 1:17:03
  These Bitches A Sun
• 1:17:04
  Lender Sans Kids And It Might Just Be The Best Day Of Their
• 1:17:07
  Lives We Presented As
• 1:17:09
  Human Thumbs Among The Tanned Locals We Tried Getting Back On
• 1:17:14
  The Menthols Still We
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did Not Blend In But What We Had Was Out Of Their Reach
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think some passersby could see that.
• 1:17:23
  On those balmy days,
• 1:17:25
  all there was to do was put one foot in front of the other.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_01: The world held us close to its chest.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_01: We leaned in.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't it nice when you go to a gallery,
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: the lady there tells you all about the artist,
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_01: then explains to you the art of friendship,
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: the beauty of sisterhood,
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: its own form of therapy,
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_01: that she truly believes women have the power to save each other's lives.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Tears trickled down our cheeks.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: We knew exactly why we were there,
• 1:17:57
  gazing at these paintings that held no meaning when we first
• 1:18:02
  walked through the
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_01: door.