Latest / IMI Podcasts / #28: "The Winners Will Be Those Who Are Global" - Mimoun Assraoui and Eric Major

Transcript

#28: "The Winners Will Be Those Who Are Global" - Mimoun Assraoui and Eric Major · IMI Podcasts

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, it's 7 p.m.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: in Dubai, 3 p.m.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: in Lisbon, 11am in St.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Kitts.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a new episode of the Mobility Standard, a podcast where we dissect current events, trends, and crucial questions related to investment migration.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Christian Nissem, editor of IMI, and in this episode I had the pleasure of hosting Mimun Asrawi and Eric Major of the Latitude Group.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We spoke about why Mimun is replacing Eric as CEO of the Latitude Group and what Eric will be spending his time on going forward.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: We talked a bit about Latitude's quest for quote unquote world domination and its progress toward its stated goal of becoming the world's largest investment migration firm.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: We covered which markets the company is expanding into next.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about the role Latitude hopes to play in bringing the industry together to face common challenges and why the Investment Migration Council is viewed by many as, in Eric's words, a private member's club and how he plans to help change that.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: What is happening on the government advisory front?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: How is Latitude working to get new programs opened?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what went wrong with the Dominica CIP for it to lose visa-free travel to the UK?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why did St.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Kitts and Nevis unilaterally raise their prices?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: All of that and a great deal more in today's episode of the Mobility Standard.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Before we start, I'd like to tell you that if you haven't already signed up for a pro membership, you really should consider it simply because it'll help you make more money as an investment migration professional.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I would be remiss if I didn't remind you that our upcoming IMI Connect Saigon event is just over a month away.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have that many tickets left.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ticket sales are open to the public, have been for about a week.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to learn more, just Google IMIConnect Saigon.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: With the preambles out of the way, let's get this show on the road.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, we have Mimun Asrawi.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Am I pronouncing that correctly?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: My Arabic is a bit rusty.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mimun Asrawi.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mimun Asrawi.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh of course uh Eric Major.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um few days ago I received a press release from Eric, a bit in advance, um telling me that uh Eric is stepping aside as CEO of Latitude and he's going to become executive chairman.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Memoon, who has been the CEO of Rift Trust, part of the Latitude group, is now going to be CEO at the group level.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's been five years since you first merged, and during that time you've been a single group, but you've maintained two distinct brands because there was brand value to both of those, uh Rift Trust and Latitude.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know to what extent you've maintained different organizations, uh, you'll tell me that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to ask, now that Memoon is becoming, is moving from being CEO of Rift Trust to becoming CEO at the group level, does that mean you'll find a new CEO for Rift Trust, or will the group just have a single CEO?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I guess what I'm asking is, will the two firms now integrate completely?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're right, Christian.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, uh CEO of Rift Trust, because I founded the Rift Trust 10 years ago, and when we merged, um, obviously, what does it mean being CEO of Rift Trust is being CEO of the of the Dubai office where we are generating where we're covering Middle East and Africa.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, I also have response, I have responsibility at the group level being the vice chairman of the group.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you rightly said we kept two uh brand names for because of the market.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, uh the brand Rift Trust was uh was well known in Middle East and Africa.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: This is what this is the reason why uh at the group level we took that decision of keeping two brands, one group.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you remember, and we had that discussions, uh that example for Eric in the past, when for example HSBC uh acquired CCF in France, uh they kept the brand name CCF because it was well recognized.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: So this was the reason behind keeping the two uh brand names.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: But uh what does it mean right now um in terms of and and I will let Eric discuss about about um his new position as executive chairman, but it's very much to consolidate at the group level, and there will not be a CEO of Rift Trust.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is as a group CEO to further bring the two organizations together without, I mean, there's no need of having a CEO of Rift Trust Investment because it's the same, it's two brands and the same group.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So this is you know a partial response to your question, and I will let also Eric develop on his side.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah let me just ask Eric directly.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're now going to be executive chairman, um, and according to your pressure release, you're gonna be focusing on quote strategic direction and future growth initiatives with quote intensified focus on government advisory and MA.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to know what that means in practice.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: For example, when you refer to MA, does that mean that you're looking for latitude to be acquired or for latitude to do the acquiring of other businesses?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are looking to be acquired, uh I don't imagine there are many firms within the IM industry who could afford to acquire you.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So does that mean you're looking to be acquired by some outside company outside the sector?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Christian, uh I think it's a little bit of all the above, depending on what presents itself before us.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Suffice it to say, over the last five years, we were fortunate enough to have been engaged in a number of interesting conversations and discussions, different types of arrangements where we could have been or would have been acquired, as well as being funded by private equity to acquire and build.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the buy-in-build approach.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Both of that uh remains on the table in our future discussions.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: As often one uh experiences when entering into this expansion mindset, you're gonna meet a lot of people, talk to a lot of groups and and uh backers, and you need the right constellations, a little bit like dating, takes quite a lot more before you consummate a more serious relationship.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we're firmly down that path.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want to concentrate fully on that because I really do believe that what we're doing already now, and with Mimun taking the helm to take us into even greater heights on the RCBI side, we need to bring in other elements to this.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Either we'll build it or we'll be acquired, or we'll continue to acquire the people side of the business.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the main asset of our organization in our business is people.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been very fortunate, as the numbers would show in our tremendous growth over five years, as to the magnet of talent we've been able to attract over to latitude and riff uh from industry peers and the wider industry of financial services.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it will be a combination of uh you know aggregating and bringing on additional talent, discussing possibly with PE to acquire businesses or to build it, and as well as potential buyers.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So all of the above, and we're already engaged in and some interesting discussions in that regard.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: You say that uh people are your biggest asset, right?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the the accountant in me says no, no, no.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Salaries definitely go in the liabilities column.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I understand what you mean.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you say that the the the human capital, the skills, that's the foundation of a business like latitudes or a business like anybody in the investment migration market, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's the the expertise, the knowledge, that's what gives a company value.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you also said that over the years you've been able to you've been a magnet, you say, for this talent in latitude group.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um if it's the case that most businesses in investment migration derive their corporate value from the people who work there, and you are uh uh sort of attracting them magnetically, uh, that talent to your company anyway, why then is there a need to acquire any other companies?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not like uh any of the companies in the business are particularly asset heavy.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's very much asset-light.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so you just uh you can vacuum up the best talent without acquiring the company.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and we've done that, uh, but the good example is the one that we experienced uh when bringing Riff uh together with Latitude, which is the footprint that they had in a very important market of the Middle East, would have taken me and my colleagues at Latitude years to build, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yields to build organically.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a perfect fit first at the people level.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And trust me, I'll say it again, as Mimo and David know, we've been very lucky.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was a a marriage of one plus one equals three, and we know that doesn't always happen in mergers, but we've been very fortunate.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So for for the logic back then, it was a geography play that gave us an immediate impetus in a very important market.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: I could see that potentially happening in other markets in which we're lacking a footprint.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's face it, anyone who looks at our website will see a great international presence, but we're lacking in Asia, we're lacking in South America.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that's where, to answer your question, there could be uh uh, you know, a merger, so to speak, of firms.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: But otherwise, we'll do it the other way, which is what we have also been doing, which is at the people level and cherry-picking talent to uh to join our forces.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying to the extent that you see complementarity, uh geographically speaking, uh, you know, you don't have a lot of coverage in Asia, as you say, uh Latin America, Africa, not that much.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're very you're quite big in Nigeria.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Middle East and Africa is a very, very strong market for us.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: We've been one of the leaders, and we will continue to develop that market.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was just in Egypt last week, Eric was in Turkey, we have an office in uh we have expansion plans in North Africa, in French-speaking Africa, we have great talent to speak uh the local languages, we want to expand that in Nigeria.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: We have a team currently in Kenya, we're in South Africa, we have our group COO currently in LATAM, in Bolivia, uh, the US is a big market, we have a presence in Asia.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, in addition to strengthening our uh our I would say our leadership in certain markets, we really want to look at new markets, America is being one of them, Asia is another uh big market for us.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I really want to ask you more about the the new markets that you want to expand into, but uh let me just uh dwell uh a little bit on the MA topic.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because as far as I can remember, in the last, let's say the last seven, eight years, uh the only major merger uh in investment migration has been the latitude rift merger.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And typically when you have a merger in business, the the idea is that you will have some kind of synergy, the the result will be more than the sum of the parts.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And Eric, you mentioned that this was one of those cases where one plus one has equaled three.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if if it's worked out well for you uh to expand geographically in that mechanical acquisition-based manner, why do you think uh you're the only one so far?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why haven't other firms done the same?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, not everyone out there necessarily looks at this business on a global scale.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of boutique operations, individual networks, um, and um not everyone necessarily sees the view of the world that Mimo and I have, in particular, coming from larger institutions.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're both guys who came from the corporate world that look at things on a very international basis.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we see that this is a business uh that the winners will be those that are global and that have a global footprint, global proposition, global resources around the world.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's a certain mindset and a certain skill set to deliver on that.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, not everyone necessarily has that cloth.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, you know, it comes with a different set of challenges and headaches.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I ask myself, why have I gone down this route when I look at some of my peers who seem to have much simpler lives and still do very well financially with their one or two or five men and women shops?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I at times get jealous of that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that um the ones that will survive and prevail in 10, 20, 30 years are the ones who've gone global, whether it's in banking, whether it's in tax, whether it's in all types of consultancy businesses, accounting.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is no different.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the only thing I I'd like to bring to it is ancillary services around.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And let's face it, the beauty of our business is that we're just this client acquisition machine.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Every year, every year in growing numbers and growing percentages, people coming through our door, and we're facilitating them acquiring residency or citizenship.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there's a missed trick, other than the fact that they may have friends and brothers and sisters that they could refer to us, which is great.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lack of ancillary services uh that our industry is missing up and missing up on.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh this is this is something that uh we're we're working and that I want to focus on.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you ask me, what am I going to be doing?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Handing over the keys to Mimun is really to pull myself out of the daily operations, um, which is what a CEO also gets involved in.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I'm at 55 now, and I want to start taking more of the strategic side and building uh the people side, bringing in uh opportunities like MA.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Government advisory, you said it earlier, maybe you'll ask more questions about it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I will, I will.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of talk about that for many, many months, and nothing really has happened.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're right, and there's there's uh a bit to be said about that, but that's where I want to focus.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, get closer to the IMC and help uh raise the industry.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it needs a lot more help.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, this is where I want to focus.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you you said, Eric, that uh the the guys who go global are the ones who win.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why why is that, you think?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because people now need a comprehensive global answer to everything?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: But then how do you're not the only firm trying to do this, right?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you gather under one roof people who can answer every question about any jurisdiction?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, it's maybe a bit of complexity and co and and challenge without a doubt, but uh that's that's that's the beauty of the business of trying to build that that solution.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, you gotta be real about what it is you're gonna be good at, and you gotta define that, be very definite or what the service proposition up until now, and only recently are we expanding beyond the pure residency and citizenship by investment.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've done 30 years where I'd stall start all discussion.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not here to help with student visas and work permits and temporary intra company transfer.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't do that, we do by investment.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But wait, we are expanding that to anyone who's high net worth who could also be looking at this by descent, also looking at this through independent means visas, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because the key is they're independent, they're wealthy.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're sticking to our knitting with respect to the audience, the target, the people, and their profile.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the uh the visa and citizenship options could be slightly different.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where we're enlarging ourselves.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: But we're very focused on that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um you you mentioned that it's a client acquisition machine, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the people come in through the door for investment migration.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's up to you what ancillary services you want to offer.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how do you limit yourself?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know um some companies say we do not give tax advice, for example.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a different animal, that's something you need different licenses for.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It exposes you to a whole other set of regulations.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to touch tax, but we may recommend some international schools, we may um obviously offer real estate advisory, etc.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: What are the ancillary services that that you guys are doing now?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And to what extent do you uh plan to expand that suite of ancillary services?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very good question.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and and definitely um uh as we say, the majority of our business is obviously residency and citizenship and diversifying into citizenship by descent uh and other, I would say, um, how you call that, nomad visas and and of other proposition.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in terms in terms of uh this is what I was mentioning earlier in terms of our our clients, and as also as I always say, you know, our clients are part of our family.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we are in the inner circle of the client.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: We are like doctors and lawyers.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot of information about our client, the trustees in misinformation, the the assets of the clients, and all kinds of information, bank statements and all of that.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we are in a in a very um uh privileged um situation in front of this client, and we want to be able to offer the client, as you correctly said, education, concierge services.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: But there are other elements that we are looking at, we can and we cannot um develop on the plan that we have because this is something that is ongoing within our organization as we are changing um, I would say, um the management um objectives.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is something that we're talking with our employees, our clients.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: What are the services that we can do internally?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where, for example, I'm just uh mentioning a service.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do we do we do we have a tax advisor within the organization that will be able to talk to the client to do the hard work first and then refer it to another tax uh tax uh uh tax tax company that whom we have relationship?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Our clients we have real estate.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is it something that we want to push?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's clearly in the thinking, and this is part of the diversification process.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Moon's right.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's something right now that we we have that privilege relationship.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have uh you know, this access to a client who has these ancillary needs.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, up until now, in many instances we would outsource the education consultancy or the tax side.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um not everything of that nature would you would necessarily want to, in my mind, uh embed or integrate in a latitude group simply because it's hard to have that layer of expertise, that depth of expertise for Canada, for the US, for the UK, for Australia, for Spain.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it certainly So where do you draw the line?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you draw the line?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um choose education as a core component, some will choose real estate as a core component, some will choose asset uh management and and um investments as as a key component that you could add on.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh some would add corporate services and fiduciary services.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: So uh without spilling the babies, because we have a strategy which we're going to be implementing uh in the months and years ahead, it's gonna be one or many of these.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: The question is, is it bought, is it acquired, is it built?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Which of these three options will it be?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's the part I need to focus on as as my uh as my role going forward.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Mimoon, you you mentioned uh several of the markets that you operate in and where you are where you have a big footprint, and uh Eric was talking about some of the ones where you don't.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I want to understand what are the most interesting markets for you right now for for your clients?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really two questions.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: One is what what are your biggest markets right now, and where do you the second question is where do you anticipate the biggest growth?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Which markets will grow the fastest over the next few years?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: As you rightly said, Middle East, I mean, Dubai has been a like London and like like Hong Kong, like Crada in the time, has been the hub for this industry.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've started you know 10 years ago, and and and it was uh I I would say hub for this industry because you have uh hundred nationalities being here, being wealthy entrepreneurs making money, but there's no citizenship scheme you know for the people that have been living uh living here.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've been living in the UA for the last 20 years.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And only recently, for example, they they they they imposed on uh they they they put in place the golden visa to be able to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: To give a sense of belonging to this expat that have been living here.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: But these people, tomorrow you are Syrian, yes, you are wealthy, but you have only a Syrian passport.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: You need to travel to Berlin, for example, or to Paris.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's a headache to get your passport.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: So they're buying their own comfort.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: So Dubai has been a natural market for our industry, and that's why you have, I would say, right now it's the most competitive place with the most players in the world, you know.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: So Dubai, and we've been able to be one of the strong players in Dubai.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: After what we've done is growth, is growth into other markets.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And for us, we are only touching the top of the iceberg, as we say, in Africa.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we have an office in Nigeria, we have an office in South Africa, we have an office in Egypt, we're looking at strategic at uh topping Morocco soon, and we will be expanding, continue to expand into Africa because Kenya is not Nairobi is a great hub for all of the wealthy individuals that are in Africa.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to have a place there.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, the French speaking, because we are lucky to have uh, you know, uh Eric being Canadian and French speaker, myself, and we have other people within the management that that are French speakers, so French speaking Africa will be a growth market.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the plan for Africa.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Beyond that, the growth, and you said it correctly, we've seen amazing uh growth coming from the US market.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: We've established there, we're growing that franchise.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh just right now we have management also being in you know in east on the east coast, looking at other opportunities, and I think uh uh and we've seen that that trend uh we have uh managing partners in Vancouver, in Montreal, and in Cayman.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: The US is definitely a uh a target market, and also in addition, Latin America.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have we are currently in Road Show in Latan, Latin America, yes, and finally I would say uh just to sum up so consolidating, improving Africa, the America market, North America and Latin America, and for 2024, Asia will be a focus.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: We have an office in Hong Kong, we have a presence in Vietnam.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we really want to push that.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Last month we opened our office in in Lahore.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: We have all also other countries in Southeast Asia that are very interesting: India, Bangladesh, Nepal, and we want to capitalize on that.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just commenting briefly on the different markets that you've mentioned, Latin America is not a very big market for investment migration.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um 650 million people live in South America, that's about the same as the number of people who live in Southeast Asia.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Southeast Asia is a much bigger market for investment migration, and I think there are two reasons for that.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, uh the passports are not bad in South America already.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: They already have most of them have visa-free Schengen, right?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's number one.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, um there's a big overlap in Latin America between the people who have wealth and the people who have European ancestry.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of the high net worth individuals in South America are able to get uh citizenship through descent a lot of the time, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, there's still three times more high net worth individuals in South America than there are in Southeast Asia.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there should still be something of a market.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just a it's just a comment on me for why, you know, I see that everybody is in Asia, everybody's in Europe, everybody's in the Middle East, but very few of the leading international investment migration firms have a physical presence in South America.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a that's a good point.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's why we uh you know, for us, Latin America is very specific, and you mentioned it is a is a strong passport.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of the the government in and in these countries are becoming leftist.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you see it in in Venezuela, you see it in other countries in Peru, in Bolivia.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So for these people, it's not about getting a better passport, but being able to send their kids to where in Europe.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and Spain is a natural destination for these people.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: So we are um lucky to have our group CEO who is Spanish, who has a strong connection also into Latin America, who is developing this offering.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So for us, it's it's as you say, uh, and and and we are giving, and I hope we're not giving too much recipe.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's a podcast listened by our our peers, but uh but obviously that has been uh um you know uh this is a reason why on our side we want to focus on that.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um so this is uh Yeah, it's a targeted approach.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the South American market, it's very specific in niche.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um that part of the world, typically I used to say is is very US centric.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: If they're gonna move anywhere, it's it's likely to be the Americas um or the United States in particular.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: But um as Mimoon points out, we've seen uh uh an opportunity in some specific markets in countries where um from a family planning point of view uh Europe could make sense.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's more targeted uh than than uh what we would see in Southeast Asia.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I take your point.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, it's a market I've I've attempted even back in my HSBC days, uh going back 15 years ago, with all the investment we made, despite uh all our best efforts, very little output.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there's a way of cracking it, and there's a lot to be said about, well, you know, John Green and Chris Willis from our team would roam the the streets of LA and New York talking about alternative citizenship 15 years ago, and every American would look at us, look at them and say, Why the hell would I need that?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I why are you bothering me with this?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot to be said about persistence, getting the name in there, getting your your your uh the the knowledge uh out there, and then at some point something happens and all of a sudden they they see the value as as we're seeing in the United States right now.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Eric, you said in the press release, and you've said before, that you have very ambitious growth plans for Latitude Group.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: World World domination plans, yes.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, world global domination plans.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: You've said publicly, in fact, before in IMI that one of your goals is to become the world's biggest investment migration firm.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So my question is twofold.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Are you on track for that?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what is the path that you're taking to get there?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and and just before you answer, how do we even define the biggest, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are a couple different proxy measures we could look at.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing would I mean, the best would be to know uh revenue.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to tell me their revenue.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the other thing I look at is okay, headcount, uh office footprint, and sometimes people will tell me the number of clients.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know Henry Fan does 8,000 clients a year.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're not quite there yet.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, tell me about uh your your progress toward world domination.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: 8,000 just 8,000, 8,000 clients at how I mean by which which uh because it can be if it's skilled migration, and we have to to define that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and I think the comparable, and I will let Eric uh continue on that, is the number of CBI clients.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think 8,000 in a year, it's no no no, not C that's all that's all programs.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, I mean, his philosophy is look, we're we're just opening doors to to the outside world from China, or I mean, they're they're global now.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're opening various doors around the world, and and some of them are investment-based, but they're not all investment-based.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, and and and and we know Henry and and Mr.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sun, they've built a wonderful business and franchise, a growing uh uh internationally, as you point out, and and and not in easy conditions, uh, with all that's gone on in China, uh, most certainly as of late.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I know it's it's a very challenging environment, but they've uh done marvels.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And but Mimun's right.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think one would have to um uh dissect that figure a little bit.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think um are we on uh on the right path, on the path to being uh the largest?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I would say so.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, since the pandemic, without spilling too many beans, I think we we grew four times in three years, our the actual number of clients.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh again, thanks to people talent, things, thanks to the merger, thanks to the pandemic, thanks to the Americas.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so all of this is feeding uh very well.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the whole brand and the globalness plays um towards the winner in this, is the one who's going to be global, because in the end, with the consumers being more uh, you know, less uh having less time and and um uh attention span, they they they will gravitate to um uh a brand that's known in the market.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so long as we have the talent behind it to lead those conversations forwards, we will win.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think that's really boils down to describing our strategy.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: There are few organizations in this industry that have the international geographical presence, and and we really want to, and we have obviously uh you know playing a role in this industry through you, the IMI, for the IMC.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: We are representative of the IMC in the Middle East, we are representative in the IMC in the Caribbean.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we really, really want to also, why we want to do that is also want to protect the interests of the industry, and also this is gonna be one of Eric's role is obviously do a part of lobbying and discussion.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you can come back to that, you know, at the at the commit at the European Commission levels and uh and all of that.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we really have uh generally the the interests of our industry at heart, because obviously 130 we're uh you know every every uh every month.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean we're feeding 160 mouth every month, so it's it's important for us to make sure that that we we're protecting the interests of the industry.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that we growing is important.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so okay, Mimun, if we're talking about protecting the industry, I mean there have been many efforts, uh lobby efforts, engagement efforts.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the IMC has uh, of course, spearheaded this uh effort with mixed success, I would say, because um you know they've been operating for for what eight years, and um and industry relations with um the powers that be has never been worse, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So what needs to change in the approach um at whether it's at the IMC level or if it's a few big firms coming together or individual big firms uh taking up the mantle, what needs to change in the approach to government uh to a improve relations between industry and government and and b to protect uh the protect or potentially reverse, I should say, reverse some of the negative steps and the animosity that we've seen, especially from the European Union.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my view, first of all, on the IMC itself, you're you're right.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they they've done uh wonderful things and they've driven wonderful output in terms of their publications and some awareness of the industry, but there has been some failings in terms of achieving what the industry goals would be, which is a better understanding uh and and support of the industry at the European level for sure.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think they've let's give credit to IMC where credit is due.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: They've they've really, really tried.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they've really engaged, they've written letters, they've uh showed up to meetings in Brussels, but but Brussels is not listening.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: And also what I see is there's a reluctance among a lot of the industry firms to support that work.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and that's where that's the bit I I want to focus on, and and trying to be uh more inclusive.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: The IMC is still viewed by many as still a private members' club, uh a membership of only a few select players, and that's gotta change.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I really do think that the um uh the industry is much broader than what the IMC currently uh shows and represents in terms of its membership.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so how do you crack that nut is actual structural uh at the board level, and so there's some things that need to be done, but certainly uh it needs to be more inclusive, it has to have a much wider membership, uh, and it's got to seek the participation in effort and resources of those members to achieve what Bruno and his team can only achieve so much with the limited resources.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: But to your point, he's achieved a lot.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And also the whole academic side of this equation of our industry is very key.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: They've really developed a really interesting framework, a positive framework in terms of uh getting accreditations for people in the industry.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a very important step.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, on the lobbying side, there's just so much a small team like that could achieve.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I and hopefully a few other um industry players could could play a role in in expanding that.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um you say you say, okay, so it's a bit of a chicken and egg question, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because on the one hand, uh to be effective, they need more resources.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: But to get more resources, maybe they have to be more effective, right?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they have to get the results so that that companies say, okay, if we if we contribute more money to the IMC, the IMC can lobby on our behalf.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, but I think the bigger issue is that it's still perceived uh as being um a private club of a select few, and when we know the industry is so much broader than what's represented at the end.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what's stopping what's stopping that from broadening?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is it that I mean maybe in the early days some some some players were excluded, and then maybe the solution is to bring those back into fold?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's perception.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think there's some reticence about how it all started.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I could tell you I was there, so I I know exactly how it all started, but uh it's already a lot more diverse and broader than how it started, and and that's shown with the last IMC forum in in London.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully the one in Dubai uh in a couple of months or in the new year will will be even broader, but it's still missing some key players, which we don't have to mention, uh don't have to name because they they they know who they are that need to be um part of this and and and bring in their weight and experience and support to achieve uh the industry goals.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, the best example I have around this topic is um the early days of the both federal and Quebec IIP, where we'd be around a table with the feds in front of us, we'd have 12 of our biggest competitors, but guess what?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: On that day, we're best friends just trying to achieve the one thing, which is better policy and better management and administration of an important program that was feeding our businesses.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a lot of coalescence, a lot of common effort um in Canada uh in those days.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't have that yet internationally, and we ought to, and there's some really important players missing in in that effort.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think uh uh someone like, for example, us here at IMI, how can we help to uh broaden the participation in uh the Investment Migration Council?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how can you help?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what are some strategies?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think the th the key is to me, I'll be very open and public, I shared this with uh uh a few members already, is that the the board itself has to be uh one that has uh renewals and that have terms.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So board members uh need to have a specific term under which after their four or five year term uh need to be replaced.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it now?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: What is it now?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: A lifetime planeure?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it looks like it.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and that that's a big problem because then it's always the same people leading the organization, uh, despite the membership growing, but it's still missing some key players.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And key players that not not just members, but actually want to uh bring change and uh assist in in getting uh the industry message across.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's at the board level.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that that needs to change, to be honest.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think I just want to add, uh I mean that's a very good point, and obviously, you know, as you mentioned uh earlier, uh, you know, better than anyone, the genesis of uh you know the investment migration councils compared to the other one that was competition, GIC.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: So there's always been rivality in our industry.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we and we've always been a mediator, you know, being neutral and trying to bring the the people together.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: So remember organizing events in Dubai between Bruno and Arthur and to find out some solution, as you know, and it went up to legal battles in in the past, you remember.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: At least we don't have that animosity anymore.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's a consensus that our industry is changing and we need to come together.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And really uh our role, and it's gonna be more specifically for Eric.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we are lucky to have him as our executive chairman, uh pioneer, and veteran in this industry.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: He has a broad consensus of this industry, and I think uh, you know, he has a great role there to play to you know to to to bring uh Eric didn't want to mention names, but now that you've done it anyway, Memoon.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that uh overtures toward some of the firms you mentioned that have uh let's say had some uh conflicts in the past with uh the IMC, perhaps because of the origins uh and uh the origins of the IMC and the the board composition of the IMC.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think overtures toward those those firms on the outside of the IMC right now would would be a big step toward uh more inclusion?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, for sure it would be, but uh I've already had those discussions and I know uh what it is uh that they'd be wanting to see beyond just being invited and and coer or coalesce into joining as members.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're right in saying that there needs to be a better representation of the industry, and one like our industry has a lot of newcomers and and and is expanding internationally, and therefore that needs to be represented at the board level and bringing that impetus towards um you know uh advancing the industry in the way it's growing itself.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the short answer is I think that they can be persuaded if they see um if they see those changes at the uh at the board level.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but what's uh stopping those changes at the board level from taking place?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Are the incumbents reluctant?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, the the the real answer is uh no one's had time to really focus on it.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, let's talk a little bit about uh government advisory.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um there hasn't been much happening uh in the last few years on the government advisory front.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: There were some um stunted attempts in the Balkans.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: There were several.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Albania came close to opening only to be uh basically uh leaned on by the European Union.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um Albania has said we will await the outcome of the trial between Malta and the European Commission.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and if that comes out in Malta's favor, they say they will open a CIP.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: At least that's what the current Edirama um administration is saying.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in North Macedonia there was much fanfare, but not too much substance in the end.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: I believe we're still awaiting the first formal approvals.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um Montenegro was good for a few years, uh, but then again the EU weighed in and they they found that um they'd rather keep good relations with the EU to which they're trying to accede, uh, than uh keep their CIP going.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh of course Moldova uh was a bit of a false start.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean there it was operational for a number of months, um but uh ultimately you know they had three or four governments in the space of 18 months, and ultimately it was scrapped.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so now I see Kosovo is going to get uh Schengen visa-free access uh starting next year.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um Eric, do you do you know do you know something that we don't know uh on the government advisory front?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say to you that your your account is is accurate in terms of the evolution over the last few months.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I would say it this way.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we have a government advisory team comprised of Memun, myself, Chris Willis and Kenning.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And since um since the pandemic, since two to 2020, uh we've made over uh 11 submissions.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um half of that on request, the other half on us taking the initiative.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've had a lot of really interesting conversations that was progressing well, and then an election occurred, or conversations that was progressing well, and the European Union weighed in, or progressions that progressed well, and then um governments being governments.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: They stall in getting back to, but it's still progressing.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's uh admittedly, this has been a disappointment, and this is where part of it I estimate is simply because if I take ownership of this, is I just personally was too busy with other operational issues.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of this stuff, if you leave it just to government to push forward, it's gonna go nowhere.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: You really have to have the idea, the proposals, and the FaceTime and advancing it because already be on the ball a hundred percent of the time, huh?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, exactly, exactly.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: And in fairness, in my previous uh roles, uh I saw that at play where it does take that dedication of constantly pushing it forward.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, it it it often has a tendency to die a slow death within just the realm of government.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: So this is is is one of the reasons why I want to dedicate my time and effort on this because I know the interest is there post-pandemic.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the the the finances of the world are in shambles.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: They they need these kind of um proposals and economic development uh projects to get their FDIs going again.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know that we'll we'll get a better outcome if if uh in my case I tend fully to it.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's a wash of space, but I know the interest is there.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there are new markets uh that are looking at to it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've already seen this migrate from west to east, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Egypt has a program, Oman is flirting with the idea, the UAE came up with their program, Jordan came up with their program in the last three years.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of newcomers in new spaces, they're more regional plays, but they're important.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh nonetheless, they're big, there could be big markets in there.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there's also some known tap uh jurisdictions that we want to we want to uh explore.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, but make no mistake about it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say this about GovAd.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: You could put all the it's it's a little bit like MA.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta dance a lot before you find that fit.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the political constellations for this stuff is still very difficult, certainly on a citizenship side.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Citizenship, you need the magic ingredients of you know, majority governments, um center-right thinking, um, open-mindedness, um, and then the rest is is they just see the the uh the results or the at least the the proposals of our figures and how significant they could be.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it's not easy to have all those ingredients.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll give an example which a lot of people in the industry would know.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Croatia for decades was courting this idea.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you got coalition governments where you know you got at the table the communist sitting next to the far right guy with the tree hugger green guy in the middle, you know, and how do you get something that's over the line?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: It never got over the line in Croatia because the constellations, political constellations, uh weren't there or ready for it.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's not an easy ask, for sure.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's your approach when you do outbound push for like an outbound push?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: You contact the government, right?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: You contact the government and say, hey, uh we think you should have a CIP.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you is it is it latitude alone, or do you try to bring in um a consortium?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good question.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're certainly and we've done consortium, as you know.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've uh made a number of those 11 submissions.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, some of them, not all of them, were consortium-based.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Governments like the idea of industry coming together to deliver for them uh a proposition, an offering, as opposed to just one firm trying to do it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we've learned from that, I've learned from that over the years.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: So uh you get better results in joining forces.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so consortiums are important, and as long as each consortium member brings important elements and ingredients to the offering.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, listen, what what do I look for?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: I look for, you know, again, is this a government that's got at least four or five years ahead of them?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh are they um, you know, generally pro-economic, pro-economic development and and business?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are they what I would call on the what I call the passport grade B and above, B minus, B plus, A minus, A plus, B B.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Caribbean citizenship?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um, yeah, because that's where you have a lot more interest in scale.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and there's a lot of countries that are still very much in that B, some even in that A minus, uh, that could be interested and are interested in this.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I look at.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we get a feel, you know, is is it best to bring it as a consortium?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Generally it does.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Memoon, um I want to talk to you a little bit about some recently in some recent industry developments and get your take on those.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um we recently saw that the UK revoked visa-free access from a number of countries, including Dominica and Vanuatu, allegedly over their CBI programs.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um the US brought the Caribbean together around six CBI principles.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Later, we saw some articles online that claimed the EU had issued six demands of CBI countries, um, but we don't actually have any proof that they they did.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: And um Senkitz and Niva CIP a couple days later massively reformed their entire program, precisely in accord with those alleged six demands.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very quick reaction, suspiciously quick.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to me, it indicated the EU actually didn't issue those six demands.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: We've never heard the EU say that directly, um, but then instead somebody in SINKITS probably uh made this up to justify the changes to the SENKIT CIP, which were on their way anyway.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I want to understand what you guys are expecting next from the EU and the OECD countries, maybe US, UK, uh in regards to their treatment of CBI countries.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think, Memoon?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Christian, you're right.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've seen a lot of development since since March in our industries in terms of uh of um where our industry uh is going.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um so uh regarding uh Dominica and having the suspension of the uh UK visa waiver, I think that was, and I'm sure uh Dominica realized that was a mistake from the uh CIU.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean we can talk about it post-mortem, you know, accepting some of the applicants with a UK visa rejection was not a smart move.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: So they shoot themselves in the feet, and and that was the uh the you know that was that was um that was not um not smart moving honesty.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Same for Vanuatu.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, they they onboarded some uh applicants that were that should not have been allowed to have a Vanuatu citizenship.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: So due diligence is very important.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: So and these countries, the UK and the European Union, but they are they are taking that into consideration.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Following that, a lot of developments happened since then.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh obviously the EU putting a lot of pressure on these countries, and as you rightly said, nobody knows.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's been a lot of speculations and a lot of knee-jerks, and we know that even if if if Sankeys have taken this decision in July, now there's some question marks why we've taken these decisions, because it seems like the other countries will not follow through.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, St.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: Lucia, when you talk to the head of CIUs, mentioning there's no indication of price increase.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, they implemented like the interview, like we've been doing in, for example, in St.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: Kitts and in Antigua, where you have to spend five days, but we don't have to.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the interviews were part of the six principles that they publicly agreed to with the US Treasury, whereas the price increase, they seem to have acted entirely in a vacuum, completely unilaterally.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, when I spoke to the other CIU heads immediately after that decision, they were as surprised as me about this price increase.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go further, Christian.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was there uh it just a few weeks ago in August to introduce myself to uh to the government, to the CIU, and applaud the general intention and direction that they're wanting to bring their program.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I do uh you know recognize their their uh rightful intention to raise the bar and and take measures to ensure a more sustainable um CBI for them in St.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Kitts.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: But when I asked them the million-dollar question, uh did the measures you've taken, have you been given any assurance from the EU that by taking them that that visa-free travel to EU or UK will be assured?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: They said, no, we we have no such assurances.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: So they they that means that this article in the Associated Times uh appears to have been taken from thin air.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it it would appear so.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's surprising that the no one in the EU um you know uh uh countered it or or commented it, but um my assessments from what I've heard, and again, I applaud their intention, is that they want to send a signal.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're prepared, as they said to me, to take three steps back before they could take a step forward.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're prepared to see 30% of their GDP fall down to five in terms of significance that the CBI will bring.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: So very honorable and and bold decisions by any account, but by no means that do they have the assurance that um this is going to save them, although they think it sends the right signal that they're maybe more serious than the other guys?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe there's a bit of a positioning on that front.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um so it's it's preemptive, is what you're saying.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Preemptive.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, since uh synkits changed its prices, what have you noticed in the the marketing mix?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean when you've you speak to clients, are they now dismissing syncits offhand because it's twice the price, or are they still interested in sync its?
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, definitely.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that and they start realizing that uh you know, clients when you're talking of double the pricing of another country like uh like St.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Lucia, like Antigua and Barbuda, like Granada, which which have the same advantage, uh clients will will will look for this alternative solutions.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: So so it's been a bold move.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: We think that even though clearly we haven't seen yet the consequences uh of this, but this on the long term is good for our industry because they are their realization that there's been some in entre guillemate in bracket abuse, and uh some the head of CIU, the government, are well aware of that and they are taking the necessary steps to improve that.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: This has been a wake-up call.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, some kids did that, the others for Island did not follow up, but has been a wake-up call to preserve this program because it's a very important part of their GDP.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, and and for us, we see it as good things on the long term because obviously it will clean the industry.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's some been some um some practices that are not acceptable.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as we mentioned earlier, we are safeguarding of this industry and and and and uh it's it's it's gonna be positive on the long term.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, some people will suffer in the short term, but if we want to clean our industry, this is one way also of doing it and talking to the government.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been a pioneer, I mean, we've always discussed into the different gatherings that we have with the head of CIUs uh regarding some practices, and we're feeding them with information because it's in our interest.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have a small shop where we have 10 people working.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned to you, we have responsibilities toward uh not only our employees, our clients, and our our shareholders.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing we also see, and and here I think we should highlight Malta is that the EU keeps moving the goalposts, right?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it initially they say, Oh, we are concerned about the due diligence process.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then they show them the due diligence process, okay, this is great.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then, oh okay, but we're still concerned about the vetting because of A, B, and C.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then Malta goes ahead and further strengthens the vetting process, implementing X, Y, Z uh new new measures, and you know, making the due diligence process really unassailable.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then the change in tone comes from the EU and it becomes, no, it's you know, okay, maybe you check them well, but it's still wrong.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's just wrong.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like morally they have something against it.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it feels as though no matter what the CBI industry does to, as you say, Mamoon, clean up and you know, improve its practices, best practices and high vetting standards and tough controls.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, those arguments are kind of just smokescreens, and the real problem is that the people who run the European Union have an ideological aversion to the fact that you can sell citizenship.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want it to be a commodity, they want citizenship to be something ethereal, something sentimental, something that you can tie to a national bird and a national song, uh, and these things.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so how do you how do you counter that?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, you counter it by creating programs that compromise on this reality which you've full fully uh rightfully described, uh Christian, which is um which is what Portugal um, I guess we thought was achieving, and we know a few have achieved it, but it remains to be seen whether what Portugal was advertising is going to prevail to the masses.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm saying is it forces the market towards residency with a clear pathway to citizenship, right?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the future of this business in Europe.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think Malta's uh program has been under severe scrutiny for the last 10 years.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: We launched it in 2013, 2014, it's been in constant battle.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they may weigh they may well win their day in court, and the experts, legal experts would suggest they will win their day in court.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um that doesn't mean the program will necessarily be around.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then the EU will find extra legal means of applying pressure, right?
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not like it's not like Albania uh or Montenegro or North Macedonia or Moldova or any of these countries.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like they you know were formally given the order by the EU to close their programs.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was these are you know private conversations in which the EU somehow intimates that look this could jeopardize your EU accession or jeopardize access to EU funds, right?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and but being already part of the EU, they'll use other levers to achieve their goal.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh it's not just the Americans who have a strong arm uh of getting what they want.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Brussels has their way of getting what they want, and they will, frankly, I believe they will get what they want.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think Malta is smart enough to know they probably will at some point in time.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that will shift the the business towards this residency with a clear pathway to citizenship.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're gonna get into the nuance of is it seven days a year, 30 days a year?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it'll be a while before you get it.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's back to this, you know, in Europe it takes five years to naturalize.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's just what it's gotta be, and it's what it's gonna be.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then the whole details of, you know, were you there, how much you were there, and what other ties and genuine links, you know what?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe in 10 years we'll dive into that.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: But right now, this done in 12, 18 months thing, Caribbean style, we don't like it.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Another element that's kind of shaking up the CBI market or or has the potential to reconfigure the value of citizenship as a travel document, uh, or passport as a travel document, is the electronic travel authorization.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: The European has been planning their own ETIAS.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's been in the works at least since 2019, if not earlier, and keeps getting postponed.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: Most recently, it was postponed until 2025.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um how is it, Eric, that this ETIAS you think will will change the, as I said, change the value of the passport as a travel document versus the value of citizenship as a right to permanently remain in a country?
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think that's the difference right there, is that you know our clients are looking for citizenship in a passport for a number of different reasons.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in many parts of the world, a big part of that was ease of travel and enhanced mobility.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: But there's in reality also the benefit of just settlement, the right to be and to settle in that particular country, and that will always be there, of course.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I do foresee, um, thanks to ETA ETSIAS ESTA in the United States, and fast forward 10, maybe 15 years from now, where when you're filling out that form and you're putting your name, your date of birth, and where you live and what nationalities you have and where you were born, that the algorithm that happens in the back will certainly look at which passports you declared.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it will certainly look at where you currently live and your age group, and maybe there'll be questions about what you do.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it'll be a much lesser significance and importance than the world that we currently live in.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I view it as maybe overly optimistic, but as further democratizing, democratizing the um the uh you know the the mobility of uh humans on planet Earth, whereas it's not because you're Syrian that you won't be able to go to Italy.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's because maybe you're Syrian with some background issues in the same way that the Australian guy who wants to go skiing in Switzerland is told you're not coming to Switzerland.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because you're Australian that we're gonna let you in.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's because we got these other algorithms that we check on you.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we know we're in the world where that is actually achievable already.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, our firm, we have two international due diligence databases that we use, and within seconds, I have a quick snapshot figure of who this person is and whether there's anything nefarious.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and I mean seconds, let's say minutes at most.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the technology is there.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think the acquiring of citizenship merely for the past uh for the benefit of mobility is still there, but it'll be less significant in 10 to 15 years.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, so I get your point about democratization, because it if we're looking at individuals rather than just nationalities, I mean we can have a more nuanced picture of the individual, right?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we can take more factors into account.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so people wouldn't be excluded or included on the basis of nationality alone.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's um I mean, wouldn't this change wouldn't this change entirely what a passport is?
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if it because if you take this to its logical extreme, we could all have a passport.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like just instead of me having a passport from Norway, I could have the passport of Christian Nesheim, and you know, maybe it's stored on a blockchain or something eventually.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just what you're describing there is is maybe 30 or 40 years away, but I'm not gonna uh discredit your idea.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they will be around the individual and who that individual is and the risk.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, let me say it this way.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a banker at uh in my early career.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: There are the five C's of credit, collateral, credit capacity, credit history, character, forget the fifth one.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: But out of those five C's where the branch manager would say, I give them the loan or not, 80% was credit history.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did you pay the bank on the last loan or the last uh credit card bill on time?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm saying is is that citizenship will count.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: Where you live counts.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how old you are maybe also counts.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um the 80% of the decision, I'll tell you right now, in the in 10 years, is uh what dirt do I have on Eric Major?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh you you made a very valid point.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you look at it, it's true our our industry, the passport is a very Archaic way compared to how the world is evolving.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is digital.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's still a it's still a it's still a books where people are traveling.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I agree with you in the future, and uh we start seeing that, for example, even here in in Europe, in the UAE, you don't even need to see immigration officer, you know, for biometric, you just pass by.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the first step toward this digitalization of identity.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: Some might be something in the eyes, iris, all of that.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna grow.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: And this ESTA, ETIAS, and ETA, this is just the beginning of this implementation.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_02: Me, for example, I have a French passport.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, when I go to the US, I have to apply for uh for um for uh for ESTA, and this takes uh less than 24 hours to get uh the pre-approval.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: Same now with the UK was gonna be implementing, even if you are uh a French, wanted to travel to the UK, yeah, you need to go online and just put your information so that they have this data on you to pre-check.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a discrimination towards you know, like like we could have seen, for example, for Iran or Syrian or Nigerian, is very much knowing that person.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: And European Union is doing the same.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we just gonna recently that's gonna be delayed in 2025, but all of this, and this is what we're telling our client, is not a discrimination toward you.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is like a global world where we live in where, well, you need to show uh uh at the blanche.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: So so yes, it's coming.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and finally, Christian, that's why uh a lot of what we do, we're still this client acquisition, and trust me, people will want citizenship to settle somewhere or to have a right to be there, at least residency for sure as well.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this doesn't mean uh, you know, the the uh dissolution of the of the industry, if anything, uh it it could further expand it in many ways, but I think the discrimination around I'm born in Pakistan or I'm born in China or I'm born in Venezuela, I think could lighten.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is not tomorrow, uh, but in a decade or so.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think more of the reason for us to have these ancillary services, uh, which is also a big part of where we're going with this, uh, because the business is going to change.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, look, I I know Memo's running out of time, uh, but Eric, at your suggestion, it was a good idea, and someone did it to me once.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've included some fun questions at the end.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: Just some rapid fire.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: I wish you would have told us at the beginning, we would have prepared our thoughts.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, that wouldn't be as much fun then.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um ask you both the same question you can answer in turn.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you had unlimited time and money and you didn't worry about the tax implications, in which three locations would you spend most of your year?
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Eric Major answer, not necessarily the Eric Major and Annalisa Major answer.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I say this because I'm a big fan of Vancouver.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: I lived for 16 years, uh and and and will um always have a dear place in my heart.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh second, uh Geneva, again, mountains, water, French speaking.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thirdly, New York, New York City.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for me, um been I've been uh around now, been expat for the last 20, 23 years, you know, between uh Europe, Asia, Tokyo, and now Dubai for 20 years.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, family lives in Paris and being Moroccan origin, so a bit of time between the two countries.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think Morocco would be great.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Switzerland, also given the mountains, it's uh it's appealing and it's French speakers and it's close to Paris, that I appreciate.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the third country, I mean, would be in the Caribbean.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also St.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: Lucian, so I think uh spending some time in the Caribbean is uh would be uh would be an ideal scenario.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily, I mean uh when I said Geneva is already taking into account the tax implication in France, but this would be like the the circle.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, I've been in Dubai for for 20 years, and Dubai is a great place and it's uh it's um you know safety.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: So uh between Dubai, uh Morocco, where it can cover Africa, and I would say even uh the the Caribbean.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh those are your three.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Those are your three would be my now each of you name one person in the investment migration industry that you admire and explain why.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: One only.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you go first, uh of course, Mimulasrawi, CEO of Matitude Group.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, but sorry, present company excluded, examining present company, yeah.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I and I think I'm saying that is is uh I have respect, a lot of respect for Chris Kellin because obviously he's been one of the pioneers.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know that uh you know it's like it's uh but I think you know he he uh he he launched the path to uh for for our industry and we need to we need to to recognize that and whatever you know like the the controversies and all of that, but I feel I have respect for the person, for the firm, and uh and and this is one of the reasons many of us.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Moon's absolutely right.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have to get credit where credit is due.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was the bold bold trail blazer um in 2004, 2005.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I remember those early meetings where he was coming up with this idea.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to uh echo your choice, Chris, is indeed why many of us are here.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would add on the RBI side, unfortunately no longer living, but when it was dear of heart and it was truly the true pioneer Canadian immigrant investor program, uh gentleman by the name of Louis Leblanc, who passed away 18 months ago.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, the the the the guy in the industry, uh certainly in the Canadian context, that made it uh all start and and uh begin.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: All right, final question.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: What advice, one piece of advice, what advice would you give to your 20-year-old self if you could send a message back in time?
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Career advice, career advice.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's a tough one.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for me, if I can start, because 20 years ago I was in a completely different industry.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was into banking, I left the banking world 10 years ago to be in this industry.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Is is is um, you know, the advice is like, well, uh you know, try to be a builder, an entrepreneur, have entrepreneurial skills.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And this is I've discovered that since since become entrepreneur.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's difficult, but it's very make who you are.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's to start early the entrepreneurship to have the entrepreneurship uh mindset.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not easy, but uh it's paying off on the yeah, it's a good point.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean uh it's a tough one because I I I have to say I'm I'm very happy and proud of uh mon cheminement, what I've achieved and what I experienced in my career.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the luckiest guy in the biz.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I really truly believe that, and I really cherish every chapter.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so there's nothing like I certainly not a regret kind of answer, but if you're asking me what nudge would I say to a 20-year-old Eric Major, um certainly as you get up the ranks, you gotta accept that not everyone uh is gonna like the decisions you make, uh, which is a little bit different when you begin as a salesperson, you're engaging, you're embracing, you're bringing things together, and you could be Mr.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Nice Guy.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you get up to the top, there's there's gonna be a few people along the way who are uh not gonna be happy with with the decisions you make.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just telling the 20-year-old Eric that's okay.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's it for today, folks.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: But we'll be back soon with another episode of the Mobility Standard.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this podcast is open to the public, so there's a limit to the names we can name and the rumors we can discuss openly.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: But one place where I can promise you that won't be the case is during IMIConnect and Saigon next month, where industry leaders are gathering behind closed doors for private and confidential discussions on the issues that matter to the industry.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Google IMIConnect Saigon right now.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out and let us know if you want to join.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wish you all a great week and thank you for listening.