Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Andy Kleitsch, CoFounder and CEO of Atomo Coffee

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Andy Kleitsch, CoFounder and CEO of Atomo Coffee · Coffee People Podcast

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1:06
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Coffee People podcast.
1:09
I'm your host, Ryan Wolt. The show is presented by Roast,
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our coffee packaging, and is part of our Roast West Coast
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Coffee Network. Go to roastwestcoast.com to find
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recaps of this show, this podcast, and so much more.
1:22
On this show, we interviewed guests who have some sort of
1:25
connection to the coffee industry.
1:26
We share their stories of entrepreneurship, motivation,
1:29
their challenges and inspirations, and today feels
1:32
more like an innovation day. We're chatting with Andy Kleich,
1:36
the CEO of Atomo Coffee. Atomo has entered the market
1:39
with a beanless coffee that, according to them, is the most
1:43
sustainable on the planet. But the question that I have for
1:46
Andy is if there aren't any coffee beans, is it still
1:50
coffee? The answer is forthcoming.
1:53
But until we get there, be sure to take a quick trip into this
1:56
podcast show notes. You'll find links to our
1:59
newsletter and Atomo coffee.com. There.
2:02
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And of course, be sure to like and follow this podcast.
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It makes a big difference for us and frankly, just makes us feel
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good. We appreciate it.
2:13
OK, enough logistics, I need some coffee.
2:17
Today I brewed up a batch of Servant Coffee's Ambrosia, a
2:20
single origin Honduras coffee in my Clever Dripper.
2:23
I've been inspired as of late to work my way through the various
2:26
Brewers in my home. Tomorrow I'm planning on using a
2:29
homemade portal for device that is basically AV60 clone that I
2:33
built with the stand of copper pipes.
2:36
Because what else am I supposed to do in my free time?
2:39
I hope that wherever you are, you're drinking something
2:42
interesting too. Really focus on the experience
2:45
of your coffee today and keep that in mind while listening to
2:48
this coffee people conversation with Andy Kleich, CEO of Otomo
2:53
Coffee. Well, my name is Andy Kleich.
3:08
I'm the CEO of Otomo Coffee. We're headquartered in Seattle,
3:13
which we think is the, you know, the epicenter of coffee in, in
3:18
the US and I'm the CEO and I'm the founder, Co founder of Otomo
3:25
and started it five years ago. I don't want to I don't believe
3:29
you started this off with some fighting words, but do you
3:32
believe Seattle is still the the the Nexus of coffee in the US?
3:37
Where else is the Nexus of coffee?
3:39
I I haven't found another one yet.
3:41
Although I have to admit traveling around, there are
3:44
towns that I think are the best epicenters of coffee and I will
3:47
tell you 2 that are not even in the USI believe Tokyo is
3:52
dynamite and I believe Hong Kong is fantastic.
3:57
So I would say Seattle, yeah, it still rains in in the US just
4:03
from its legacy heritage and you know, just from that aspect.
4:08
Atomo is what we're going to be talking about in a little bit.
4:12
But before we do get too far, I want to learn just a little bit
4:16
about you. In particular if you had kind of
4:20
a first coffee memory, first coffee experience, something
4:23
that maybe set the seed for this path you're on now.
4:27
I, I think about this a lot, actually.
4:29
This is a question I ask people is tell me about your first
4:31
coffee experience, because it's always such a great question.
4:35
For me, my first coffee memory is my, my grandmother.
4:38
You know, she moved here from Norway.
4:41
She was, she lived 200 miles above the Arctic Circle, right?
4:45
So this is like dark all winter long.
4:47
We just drink black coffee. And I just have this memory of
4:51
my grandma. Baking.
4:53
At all hours, it could be midnight, she's baking
4:56
something, she's got a cup of black coffee and she's smoking a
4:59
cigarette all at the same time, like in the kitchen, you know,
5:03
And actually, I also have a memory of my mother.
5:06
She there are certain plants in our house that were never
5:09
watered with water. They were only watered with
5:12
leftover black coffee. Oh, that's interesting.
5:15
Yeah, she would take her cold black coffee and water these
5:18
plants with it. And they actually did quite
5:21
well. There might be something there
5:22
for our listeners. Maybe there's a a hint there.
5:24
But you know, yeah, they did great.
5:26
I do use a little bit of ground used coffee grounds in my kind
5:32
of plant fertilizer. I kind of sprinkle it into
5:34
things here or there. Atomo, I'm going to jump into
5:37
this because I want people who are just starting the show with
5:39
us to really make sure they hear what this is I got.
5:42
I get these lovely press releases from your company and
5:45
I, you know, the social media and that sort of thing.
5:48
And I saw this quote that I really, I'm going to read back
5:51
to you. Atomo is the world's first
5:53
molecular coffee containing no coffee beans.
5:57
That kind of stops me right away.
5:59
And I'm assuming you get this question all the time.
6:02
One, what does that even mean? What's molecular coffee?
6:07
What is, you know, are you creating it from nothingness
6:09
like on a sci-fi television show?
6:12
And two, if there's no coffee bean, is it coffee?
6:17
Yeah, I love, I mean, what is coffee, right?
6:21
I think that I'll, I'll kind of make a challenging statement.
6:23
I think people that have been in the coffee industry for a long
6:26
time, and I'm new to the coffee industry.
6:29
I've only been in it for five years, but I think people that
6:32
have built their lives around the coffee industry believe that
6:35
coffee is the bean. And I would challenge that.
6:40
I don't think that's accurate. I think coffee is an experience,
6:45
it's a ritual. It's a result, right?
6:49
Like when you drink coffee, you expect a result.
6:52
You expect a taste, you expect an experience.
6:55
Consumers don't. Think coffee is a bean.
6:58
They think it is an experience and a result.
7:02
And so I would like to kind of broaden everyone's horizons
7:07
right now and say. Why are we all stuck in this
7:10
belief that coffee has to come from a coffee bean?
7:14
It doesn't. And you ask what, what is
7:17
molecular coffee? How could, how could you make
7:20
coffee without a coffee bean? Well, the first thing you would
7:24
do and is this is what we did. We just said, well, what is in
7:28
coffee? We looked at like the black
7:30
liquid and said what is in this liquid?
7:33
And how do we how would we get this from something else that
7:36
isn't from a coffee bean? Now that's interesting, 'cause
7:39
I, I, It's a phrase that I hear repeated and I've personally
7:43
used about how they're, you know, coffee is like wine and
7:46
there's all these different flavor profiles and flavor
7:49
components and things, but that is reflective of something in
7:52
the coffee. So you're talking about
7:54
identifying those things. Am I understanding that right?
7:56
Yeah, yeah. You identify the attributes, you
7:58
identify the compounds that are in the coffee that are
8:01
contributing to the experience, to the mouthfeel, to the taste,
8:04
to the aroma. And you say, great, where are
8:07
these things coming from in the coffee bean?
8:10
Which compounds are they coming from?
8:12
And then where can we find those in other ingredients that are
8:16
better for the planet, you know, that are upcycled, that are
8:20
things that aren't causing deforestation like and, and so
8:23
we really then reverse engineered the compound
8:27
reactions that happen from a green coffee bean all the way to
8:32
a roasted coffee bean to an extracted coffee.
8:36
And we looked at that path, that journey and, and I'll tell you
8:41
the secret that we learned because when we first started,
8:43
we, we were trying to replicate the liquid that was in your cup.
8:46
That was kind of where we started.
8:48
That was a dead end. It was actually going back and
8:51
replicating the green coffee bean and then taking it through
8:55
a thermal reaction, through a roast and replicating that
8:59
journey that that green coffee bean goes on.
9:01
That's actually the trick. That's where you, that's where
9:03
you get the depth of and complexity of character and you
9:07
get this layered, you know, flavor that all comes from that
9:11
those that thermal reaction and taking that bean, the new
9:15
beanless bean through that experience.
9:19
Alcohol non alcoholic beer is having a moment as well.
9:24
And the best non alcoholic beers are not beers that are made
9:28
without alcohol. They're beers that are brewed or
9:31
rid like the way they would normally be and the alcohol is
9:33
somehow removed. It's kind of how I think about
9:35
caffeination, but this is kind of the same concept.
9:38
You can't just skip to the extracted phase.
9:40
You have to start at the green phase and work your way through.
9:44
Coffee is a science project always, you know, from somebody
9:47
brewing a pour over in their kitchen to, you know, what
9:50
you're doing on on the on the far end of that.
9:54
What I'm wondering about this product that you're putting out
9:57
the the beanless coffee bean, is there still an organic component
10:00
to it or is it? All.
10:02
Lab created because I think that might be something people are
10:05
wondering. Oh, it's so it's such a good
10:07
question, right. When we, when we first launched,
10:10
we did call it molecular coffee and, and I think that got a lot
10:15
of attention, but it was really misleading in that it not in the
10:21
fact that we're copying all the compounds in coffee because we
10:24
are, not because we're not replicating coffee because we
10:27
are. But what, how it was misleading
10:30
is that people thought it was a science project.
10:32
People thought it was just bleeps and bloops and smashing
10:37
atoms together and a bunch of flavored nonsense.
10:40
And just, they thought it was of, of science of Frankenstein,
10:44
you know what I mean? That's how they thought and in
10:48
reality. Our coffee is the exact
10:51
opposite. It is all farm grown natural
10:56
foods that are Whole Foods. So in our coffee, in a pound of
11:02
atomo, there's there's like 28 strawberries, there's two
11:06
potatoes, there's 2 bananas, there's aronia berries, there's
11:12
guava, lemon, fenugreek, Millet. These are ingredients and date
11:18
pits to so date pits that we upcycle.
11:21
So what it's what we've done is we've gone to the earth, we've
11:25
gone to the farmers, we've gone to crops that cause less damage
11:29
than coffee, no deforestation, smaller footprint.
11:33
And we're using those ingredients that are widely
11:35
available and we're reacting them and combining them and
11:39
roasting them and doing all these little tricks to get them
11:43
to taste exactly like coffee and contribute all the compounds.
11:46
So I think that it's it's probably, it's probably
11:50
something we need to improve upon.
11:51
Honestly. It's like, you know, we need to
11:53
really help educate consumers that this isn't something to be
11:57
afraid of. It's actually Whole Foods farm
12:00
grown foods. So I don't do a ton of research
12:04
on a product before I talk to someone because I want to learn
12:07
it along with the audience. But as I'm sitting here talking
12:10
to you, there's a farmers market about to start down the street.
12:13
I'm assuming I can't walk to that farmers market, collect all
12:16
these ingredients that you just, you know, rattled off and
12:19
somehow create coffee at my home.
12:22
So. What is it like?
12:23
For the consumer, if I were to buy a bag of the Tomo coffee
12:27
beans, you know, either online or or wherever they're
12:30
available, you know, what's my experience like?
12:33
Is it any different? Do I need different equipment?
12:35
What's the story? Yeah.
12:37
So this was a a requirement right from the very beginning
12:40
when we started the company was there can be no change to the
12:44
ritual of coffee. Like that is one thing that I
12:47
think we all like because we all like our coffee ritual.
12:50
So we said right away this has to match the ritual.
12:53
So we decided, right, You know, because from the very beginning,
12:56
if you think I'm going to reinvent coffee, you could think
12:59
I'm going to put it in the shape of a pill, or I'm going to put
13:02
it in an eyedropper or I'm going to, you know, whatever.
13:04
You could come up with so many crazy ideas.
13:06
And we said we're not going there.
13:08
We are going to replicate coffee.
13:09
That means we have to get grounds.
13:12
We knew that like the core of it would be coffee grounds that
13:16
could be used in any application.
13:19
In all of our, you know, R&D over the last five years, we
13:22
found that grounds that work in espresso machines with 9 bars of
13:26
pressure and the temperature and everything that you experience
13:29
in that espresso machine act a lot different than coffee
13:32
grounds that are involved in a pour over.
13:34
You know. So we we know that there's just
13:36
so many nuances, which makes coffee fascinating, but that
13:40
there's so many nuances in the use case and how you how you.
13:43
Brew so the. The, the goal is always and has
13:49
always been to replicate one for one, the experience that you do
13:52
today. There's, there's several
13:54
different products that we have right now that kind of satisfy
13:57
that one is an espresso, right? So this is a pure special
14:01
product. So with a partner like Bluestone
14:03
Lane, where our coffee is available, you can go there and
14:07
get a pure Atomo espresso. So it's 100% Atomo.
14:13
If you go to our website today, we have a 5050 blend.
14:16
So this is something that was that as most things are, it was
14:20
an accident. You know, it was just like a
14:22
happy accident. We were, we were at a client
14:24
meeting one day and they had their coffee there and we said,
14:27
hey, let's take. Some of your coffee.
14:29
And blend it with ours and see what happens.
14:31
And we pulled this shot that was 5050.
14:34
And it just kind of blew everybody's minds because we
14:37
were like, hi, you can still taste the coffee from that
14:40
coffee provider. You can still taste their
14:42
profile, you know, going through.
14:45
But yet it was bolstered and supported by Atomo in a way that
14:50
made it really pleasant and fruity and added some great
14:54
attributes. And so we realized at that
14:56
moment we're like, hmm, maybe we're Better Together.
14:59
Like maybe this, like we don't actually have to replace coffee.
15:04
Coffee isn't bad, but it's like if we could work together to
15:08
create the most sustainable skew.
15:12
Then we could slowly transition people into a coffee that is
15:16
great tasting, still contains coffee, but is still better for
15:21
the planet. And, and we think that's a
15:22
really compelling kind of use case for coffee.
15:26
I didn't actually realize that they were available as a blend.
15:30
You said that you're not trying to replace coffee, which is, is
15:34
something I hear when I think about products that I, you know,
15:37
that I think of as coffee adjacent or marketing in the
15:39
coffee space. Like I'm not trying to lump you
15:42
in with these other, you know, other things like mushroom
15:44
coffee is having a moment, for example.
15:48
The idea that I get to replicate my current experience is
15:52
certainly appealing. You've mentioned sustainability
15:56
and, and better for the planet. How does that fit in with this,
16:01
this company? With the tone?
16:02
Yeah. How is that part of your ethos?
16:04
Well, I mean, it was the, it was the whole reason to start the
16:08
company. And so, you know, I started the
16:10
company thinking I actually didn't have a very good idea on
16:13
what I wanted to do with my life.
16:15
I just knew that I wanted to do something better for the planet.
16:18
You and me both, yeah. Right, spent.
16:22
I actually just opened, but I made it a project.
16:23
I said, I am going to spend however long it takes.
16:27
I'm going to interview scientists, entrepreneurs,
16:29
engineers. I'm going to go around to
16:31
everybody I know and I'm going to ask them this one question,
16:34
which was what would you be working on right now if you
16:37
weren't doing the thing you're doing right now?
16:40
You know, what's your project that you wish you were working
16:42
on? And they all have crazy
16:44
innovative ideas. But if you talk to, if you talk
16:46
to an entrepreneur, if you ask them that question, they almost
16:49
always have an answer that it's like, oh, I'd be doing this, you
16:53
know. And so I found one of those
16:56
really creative guys who said, you know what, if I wasn't
16:58
working at this big company right now, I would be trying to
17:01
reverse engineer coffee and make the perfect cup of coffee.
17:04
And I was looking for an idea that would be better for the
17:07
planet. So I did a bunch of research on
17:09
coffee. I started to understand the
17:10
impacts of coffee. And I said, wow, this is a
17:13
candidate like this actually could have a really positive
17:16
impact on the planet, especially over the next 30 years.
17:20
And so that checked the box for me.
17:21
And the fact that I love coffee just made it amazing.
17:26
But let me tell you like my, my ethos or like the, the, the
17:30
premise of my brain that I always kind of look at my
17:33
decision making process of how to scale a TOMO and why I'm
17:38
doing it. And I'm, I'm making a TOMO and,
17:42
and building this company to do something better for the planet.
17:46
To do something better for the planet, you have to do it at
17:49
scale, right? Because the planet needs us to
17:53
act now. So if I'm going to do something
17:56
better for the planet and it's small, that is not as effective
17:59
as doing something better for the planet and make it very,
18:02
very large. Now, to make something large in
18:05
coffee, if you're in coffee, you know that there's a lot of small
18:08
coffee shops, they're doing great work.
18:10
They're they're having an impact in their community, but they're
18:13
probably not having a planetary impact, right?
18:16
So to do something better in coffee and have a planetary
18:19
impact, you've got to work with the largest coffee companies in
18:23
the world. It's just going to be mandatory
18:25
because they have the distribution, they have the
18:27
reach, they have that, they have the machine in place.
18:31
And so for me, it's one of the realizations that, you know,
18:34
I've come to over the last five months, six months, you know,
18:37
I'm five years into it and finally realizing in the last
18:41
five or six months that. We need to partner with the
18:44
largest coffee companies in the world to enable them to help us
18:48
reach our goal, which is to make the planet a better place and to
18:52
work with and to partner with coffee companies.
18:55
If we attack coffee and say coffee's bad, that's not going
19:00
to get no one. Partners that way.
19:01
That's not a way to. Partner, you know, and, and
19:03
that's actually not how we feel like we love coffee.
19:06
So our way is to say, hey, let's partner together to create the
19:10
most sustainable product ever, you know, a blend of coffee and
19:15
beanless coffee to create this magical experience.
19:18
So that's that's been the the approach and the the reason for
19:21
like what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.
19:23
I imagine that there it's easier to get a independent or a small
19:29
coffee roaster coffee company on board because they might have a
19:33
shared passion or a similar ethos as you do if you're
19:37
approaching can I or maybe not let?
19:40
Me, let me interrupt you for that just a second.
19:42
There's especially if anyone's listening to this that is a
19:45
small coffee company or or cares about the planet, you know it.
19:49
This is a I'm struggling with the dilemma that I've seen
19:52
happen. I'd love to get your opinion on
19:54
this. Sure.
19:55
All right. Small coffee companies, I would
19:58
say they tend or when you look at the ones that are very
20:03
climate focused, sustainability focused.
20:06
All right. And there are some great ones,
20:08
some great examples, right, of of coffee companies that are
20:11
small, that have a great sustainability story.
20:15
They work with a handful of coffee growers that they've
20:17
known for a long time. They have kind of, they've
20:21
really built this story around themselves and their, what they
20:26
stand for and they really kind of they've almost insulated
20:30
themselves in a way. They're like, we're, we're an
20:33
insulated being and we operate in a very with, with ethos.
20:36
We, we have this, you know, a driving passion of what we do
20:39
and why we do it. And we're good people, you know,
20:43
So it's so, and we, everyone applauds them, right?
20:46
Like you're doing the right thing, you're trying to do the
20:48
right thing. But then you look at what's
20:50
happening with coffee and especially over the next 30
20:54
years and coffee as a whole. So the what's been said by
20:58
experts way out there beyond me is, you know, half the coffee
21:02
has to move right where it's moving is most of it's forested.
21:06
So we're going to see a massive deforestation over the next 30
21:09
years to supply coffee. And So what I've seen is this
21:14
kind of, it's a weird thing, the young hipster coffee company
21:18
that is low sustainability, they're almost like, hey, we're
21:23
doing the right thing. We're not the problem.
21:26
They're the ones that are most likely to act and do something
21:28
innovative, but yet they think they've checked the box.
21:31
You know, they're they're not at fault.
21:34
But on the other side of that, you have the, a big corporation,
21:38
right? The evil empire, so to speak,
21:40
right? If we're speaking in those terms
21:43
and they have to look at what you're saying and see the value
21:48
financially, the money. I mean, I think we all assume
21:50
that that's the end all be all. And when you're answering to
21:54
investors or stock market or whatever it might be, that's
21:58
going to be the big thing. How do you convince someone on
22:01
that side of it to say, yeah, we also believe that this will be
22:05
better for us in the long run? Maybe we care about the
22:07
environment, maybe we don't. But what we do care about is
22:10
having the ability to make money in 30 years.
22:13
Yeah, for sure. Yes, you're right.
22:15
The the larger companies that might not be as fast moving as
22:21
the small ones when it comes to sustainability, but you're
22:23
right, sustainability is going to hit their bottom, their
22:26
bottom line. It's going to hit their
22:27
pocketbook. It's going to hit their supply
22:29
chain. It's going to make it harder for
22:31
them to get coffee. In fact, we know it's going to
22:33
make it harder to get consistently good coffee, right.
22:37
So at a favorable price for them.
22:40
So we know that they are facing those kind of future problems
22:45
and those are already starting to happen.
22:47
So the, the large coffee companies that have reached out
22:50
to us, have reached out to us for a couple reasons. 1 is what
22:53
you just mentioned about supply a surety.
22:56
You know, they're worried that 30 years from now there's not
22:58
going to be enough Arabica. Like that's a real concern for
23:01
coffee companies. Another one is the price
23:04
volatility. You know, they're just like,
23:06
hey, we're, we would like to find a way to a surety on price.
23:12
Another one is just really climate claims, so CO2
23:17
reduction, you know, like other claims, deforestation claims,
23:20
things that they've publicly stated that they need to have
23:24
assistance in finding new creative ways to actually hit
23:27
those numbers and to fulfill their promises.
23:30
So that is true. And then there are, you know,
23:33
kind of the other large coffee companies that just haven't come
23:36
around to that way of thinking yet.
23:39
What have been, you know, forgetting about the money and
23:45
going back to just this, this beanless coffee bean, which I
23:49
admit, it breaks my brain a little bit when we say it out
23:52
loud. And I'm relatively new in the
23:55
coffee space as well. I mean, I'm on that same 5-6
23:58
year plan where I'm really focused on it.
24:02
What were the hiccups in getting to a point where you felt like,
24:06
oh, we have this fun idea and it's exciting and cool and
24:09
there's a planetary impact going from there to something that you
24:14
would be willing to serve someone and say, trust me, this
24:17
is coffee and it tastes like coffee.
24:21
How? How long did that take?
24:24
I mean, how long did it take? What you know, what stands out
24:27
from that period of time? Because I can't imagine you just
24:30
went in the kitchen one day and started whipping things
24:32
together. I got to imagine there were
24:34
some, some challenges in place and you know, how did Otomo
24:39
address those? And, and I also would imagine at
24:42
the same time as you were dealing with internal challenges
24:46
to create this product, you're probably dealing with some
24:49
industry external ones of people going this, you know, fighting
24:53
you on the concept. The I'll answer those a couple
24:57
different ways. You know, the media and the
25:00
consumers have absolutely loved this product from day one.
25:05
For those of you you know listening that have started
25:08
companies before, and I have as well, there's some companies
25:14
that just seem to grab the attention in the imagination of
25:19
consumers more than others. You know, we've all been a part
25:22
of those companies that weren't that captivating, you know, and
25:26
I'll tell you like this one is one of those that is
25:28
captivating. So when a news anchor says we're
25:31
going to talk about coffee without the bean, almost always
25:33
the other news anchor says, well, does it have caffeine?
25:36
I'm going to need that. You know, like there's they
25:38
always want to talk about it. It's so when we launched a
25:41
little back story, when we launched the company, we were in
25:45
a garage. We started the company in a
25:47
garage in Seattle, you know, making some prototypes in a
25:51
garage and we took the coffee down to the University of
25:54
Washington. We'd rolled it up in a cart.
25:56
We had no permission to be there at all.
25:58
We just rolled up a cart on campus with some cameras.
26:00
We started handing out coffee to students and and recording it
26:04
and seeing we've had Starbucks, you know, their Pike roast
26:07
against our blend and two to one students were picking our coffee
26:12
as their preferred coffee over Starbucks.
26:14
In a blind taste test, so. We said, wow, that was cool, we
26:18
should put this online. We decided to do a Kickstarter
26:21
campaign. We knew that we there's no way
26:23
we could fund this entire company with Kickstarter, but we
26:25
thought it'd be a fun way to. Kind of share the story.
26:28
So we put together a Kickstarter campaign, put out the video, you
26:32
know, Otomo beat Starbucks 2 to one beanless coffee.
26:35
And it was just a viral moment. Like it it just got picked up.
26:39
Globally. And so we had all of this
26:43
interest and our also, our premise was we wanted to raise
26:48
money to, to build a laboratory and, and to build a team.
26:51
And our concept was, you know, I bet if we can put out a press
26:55
release in a video, we might get investors calling us.
26:59
That was our hope, you know, rather than us calling
27:02
investors, let's see if investors will call us and and
27:05
it actually worked. Like, because of just how the
27:10
five years ago coffee without the being pretty revolutionary
27:13
idea, you know, blowing a lot of people's minds, it still does.
27:16
Today, but five years ago it was really it became news where the
27:19
investors started calling us and we were able to quickly secure
27:22
that first round of funding and then build our laboratory and it
27:25
all happened very quick. Interesting.
27:29
But then you're in the laboratory.
27:30
You got to actually make this happen.
27:33
How does that process go? Well, it took us, I would say
27:36
between, you know, getting in the lab, we, we determined that
27:40
the first thing we had to do was to double down on like, what is
27:44
coffee? How do you generate coffee?
27:47
What ingredients can you use? Where can you find the
27:51
precursors for these compounds? How can you generate the
27:54
reactions? And just started doing this
27:58
project which we called Needle in a Haystack.
28:01
You know, we're like, it's a needle in a Hayes deck.
28:03
There's got to be some ingredients out there that make
28:05
coffee, coffee and they can generate these compounds.
28:08
We have to find them. And hundreds and hundreds and
28:11
hundreds of tests and trials. And we discovered a lot.
28:15
We filed some patents and about a year and a half into it, we
28:19
had, we've had three or four mistakes or like just happy
28:23
mistakes along the way that have been like beneficial for us.
28:27
Like one of them was we, we always brewed coffee warm right
28:32
as it like a pour over and then we put the liquid in the
28:34
refrigerator. We didn't have time to really
28:36
taste it or play with it that day.
28:37
So we put it in the refrigerator, came back the next
28:39
morning, drank it cold, and we were like, hold on, this is so
28:44
good, cold like it is. It was the best cold brew we
28:48
ever had. So we were like, we might have
28:51
to do a cold brew. Like it just all sudden we had
28:54
this like, oh, oh moment where we're like, we're trying to do
28:56
hot coffee, but this cold brew is so good.
28:58
We, I think we have to do cold brew.
29:00
So we act we did we, we went out, we raised some more money.
29:05
We built a little tiny cold brew factory where we could just make
29:08
a, you know, 1000 servings a day kind of thing in this factory.
29:11
We. Probably did 100,000 cans of
29:13
cold brew. We got it out there, people
29:15
loved it. In blind taste test.
29:18
We would never even tell people it wasn't conventional coffee.
29:22
We would just say try these different cold brews, you know,
29:25
and ours was always winning against other established cold
29:27
brews. We have an unfair advantage when
29:30
it comes to making cold brew. We can dial the formula so it
29:34
tastes better when it goes through a retort process.
29:38
So most coffees when they go in the canning process and they get
29:42
canned so they can be shelf stable, they get retorted.
29:44
Retorted is like this high, high intensity heat and it just
29:48
effects coffee. It makes coffee.
29:50
It just really harms it. It harms the flavor, it harms
29:53
the aroma, it harms everything. And we are able to create a
29:58
coffee that, when you put it through a retort, taste better.
30:02
You know, and so that's like an unfair advantage.
30:05
You know, we can actually create something that tastes magical
30:07
when it's canned. So we had this fantastic cold
30:12
brew, but we had not figured out how to make coffee grounds yet.
30:17
We were doing this cold brew factory in a way that would be
30:21
really, really hard to scale. And and so we said, you know
30:25
what, we're going to put this on pause.
30:26
For a minute we are going to go solve grounds and when we get
30:30
grounds solved, we can always come back to cold brew and
30:34
create cold brew in any cold brew factory.
30:36
And so that was that was another big kind of moment for us is
30:40
when we decided that, you know, really the the product that has
30:45
to be done is grounds and, and we need to go solve that so we
30:49
can go back and then do any application.
30:52
Yeah, for sure. I would imagine grounds are what
30:54
people have the most experience with whole bean or ground Is
30:57
whole bean like when I when I'm taking a coffee so I by whole
31:00
bean? Is that an option with the TOMO?
31:02
So I mean whole bean has been. Whole something.
31:06
Right, exactly. It has been a fantasy of ours to
31:11
to launch a whole bean and, and we've, we've absolutely tried,
31:14
you know, and I would say that it is on the road map.
31:19
We have some firm ideas on how we're going to do it.
31:24
We haven't, we haven't cracked the nut, cracked the beam yet on
31:28
how to do it exactly the way we want.
31:30
So we're still working on things.
31:32
So I would say like that is absolutely something we want to
31:35
do. When I was doing a little
31:38
reading about you as a person outside of a tomo, I noticed
31:41
you. Your current titles are listed
31:44
as CEO, UW Advisor, and Adventurer.
31:48
Where does adventure come into your life?
31:51
It's such a fun part of like I, I love getting out in the
31:58
wilderness, you know, pushing myself in and kind of
32:02
reconnecting with simplicity, you know, with a real simple
32:06
goal and a real simple environment where you can take
32:11
away all the electronics and all the distractions.
32:14
I think we just distract ourselves so much every day and
32:18
so to be able to get out in the wilderness in a challenging
32:22
environment where you get to kind of have that flow state or
32:26
you can just focus on what's in front of you, but also do it in
32:29
nature. It's so important.
32:32
And so over the years, it's really started, you know, long
32:36
distance back, not long distance backpacking like.
32:39
A through hike, you know, which is not three months, but it's
32:41
more like 10 days, you know, we're all get out and.
32:46
Really be able to kind of disconnect and reconnect with
32:48
myself and with nature. And probably one of the most fun
32:52
adventures I had was last year, it was called the The Race to
32:56
Alaska, and it's a sailboat race from Seattle to A to catch a can
33:00
700 miles, no Moat. You cannot have a motor on the
33:03
boat. You take the motor off and you
33:05
hop in a sailboat and you have to make your way to Alaska.
33:08
You know, and it was just such a a fun magical experience to be
33:13
able to kind of push yourself in those ways.
33:15
So I think that in fact, there was years ago, I was working at
33:19
Amazon, I was interviewing this woman and I'm like, you know,
33:22
what's your dream vacation? And she said, well, I just did
33:24
it. I just hiked to the Mount
33:26
Everest base camp for my honeymoon.
33:29
And I was like, you're hired, You know, like it's like that's,
33:32
you know, if you're doing that kind of stuff, pushing yourself
33:35
in your free time, in your leisure time, if you're kind of
33:39
pushing yourself to understand your own barriers of where your
33:42
extent of breaking is. And, and let me tell you
33:46
something, I kind of talk about this race to Alaska for a
33:47
second. I thought that I was going to
33:49
find my breaking point. And that's what I was actually
33:52
curious about, that I'm like, I'm going to do this race so I
33:54
can find my breaking point, so I can see what I'm really made of.
33:57
And I might not like it, but I want to see what happens when I
34:00
reach that edge. Well, OK, I didn't reach the
34:04
edge. It was difficult.
34:06
I discovered something completely different.
34:08
I discovered that when you put a team together, the bonds that
34:13
happened and the shared experience was something that
34:18
was so great and profound that the trip wasn't at all about
34:23
trying to break myself. It was about.
34:26
Really connecting with others. Sure.
34:29
Quality time through suffering. That's yeah, that's the beauty
34:33
of getting out into the world. Yeah.
34:38
How does that relate to being an entrepreneur?
34:40
You mentioned Amazon, I know you've had a series of
34:43
businesses and things that you've been involved in.
34:45
I don't mean to imply that you started Amazon.
34:47
That wasn't my intent there, just a stop on the way.
34:51
How does the exploration of yourself and your limits
34:54
translate into your life as an entrepreneur?
34:59
I think they're just so related, as in there's a moment, you
35:03
know, a lot of students. So I, we would volunteer when
35:07
I'm working a ton now. So my volunteering at the UW has
35:10
gone down a lot. So, but there was a time when I
35:14
was volunteering quite a bit there and the students would
35:16
ask, you know, when should I leave my corporate job and do my
35:21
startup? You know, they'd all ask that,
35:23
you know, I've got this idea, but when should I leave my job
35:26
and do my startup? And I'm like, well, you leave
35:29
your job and you do your startup when you can't stop yourself
35:34
anymore, you know, like there's a moment where you cannot stop
35:38
yourself and you and you have to do it.
35:40
And I, I always joke around. I'm like, I know why Kurt Cobain
35:42
and Nirvana kicked over all of his amplifiers.
35:44
It's because he couldn't stop himself.
35:46
He had to do it. And.
35:48
You know, and like, that's the way I feel when I get a bug.
35:52
For a, for a start up, when I get a bug for a company, I
35:55
cannot stop myself. It's like I, I, I will not be
35:58
happy. I will not find fulfillment
36:00
until I go do this thing. And you know, and, and I think
36:04
you know, how does that relate back to, to adventuring and kind
36:07
of pushing yourself and, and I think that startups are like, I
36:13
don't know if anyone else has done a startup and you find that
36:16
it's so painful. That you know with.
36:19
Like a year after you're done with it or two years after
36:22
you're done with it, you kind of forget.
36:23
It's like having kids, which I've had a couple of those too.
36:25
And you know, a few years after you've had a kid, you forget.
36:28
Like it wasn't that bad, was it? You know, like, maybe we should
36:31
do it again, you know, and like you, for me, it's like you have
36:35
to like the pain. You have to like the struggle.
36:38
You have to be, you have to like why you're doing it.
36:40
You know, the mission, the why. Like the one thing that I've
36:43
been focused so much on lately is the why.
36:45
Why am I doing this? What's my higher purpose here?
36:48
You know, what is giving me fulfillment?
36:51
And when I stay focused on that, then all of the problems that I
36:55
call them the messy middle, all those problems actually
37:00
dissolve, you know, and I think so much of our lives right now,
37:05
if someone was thinking that, you know, I want to do a start
37:06
up and here's what I want to do, it's really easy to get focused
37:11
on the messy middle. Oh, I've got a incorporate or
37:13
I've got to do this or I've got to do that and those things.
37:15
Do have to get done? But the messy middle is the
37:18
messy middle. For a reason.
37:19
Because there's so much, there's so many knots and there's so
37:22
many things that are going on in there.
37:23
And you could really spend all your time in that messy middle
37:26
thinking that you're getting somewhere.
37:28
But what I've always found is that when I, when I take the, my
37:31
conversation in my brain up a level and I think like about my
37:35
purpose and why I want to be here and what I'm trying to
37:38
achieve and, and like really for myself and for the planet and
37:43
think about why I'm here. You know, all these reasons,
37:46
just let's just call it big thinking.
37:49
Then I find that the messy middle almost always takes care
37:52
of itself. It evaporates, it simplifies it.
37:55
You really start to understand what's the most important thing
37:56
to do next. To take your hiking analogy, I
38:00
would kind of look at that as the middle is stepping off the
38:03
path into a bog and getting stuck and you know the rest of
38:08
it. The the the problems are
38:09
actually the stepping stones. You step from 1:00 to the next
38:12
to the next to get to your destination.
38:14
Man, you know what in in my hiking world I would call the
38:18
messy middle? All the planning that I do
38:21
beforehand, looking at all the gear, well, how many ounces do I
38:23
have in my backpack? Should I do this?
38:25
Should I do that? What about these shoes or those
38:27
shoes? You know, you can get stuck
38:29
there and think you're actually making progress, you know, And
38:31
then when you finally get on the trail, you've left your car
38:34
behind and it's a one way path, you know, like now you're
38:38
committed, now you're in it, now your head's in the right spot,
38:41
you know, and it turns out. Roasting with the Otomo coffee.
38:48
We used the term roasting earlier.
38:50
Is it roasting in a traditional sense like with a coffee
38:53
roasting machine, or is this something that you guys have
38:56
developed for this purpose? We do have a coffee roaster
39:00
machine. Every bit of coffee that comes
39:03
through goes through a coffee roaster machine.
39:05
But we also have a lot of other unique, you know, manufacturing
39:09
equipment that's food grade food manufacturing equipment.
39:13
So when you look at our at our processes, you know over half of
39:17
our ingredient in our coffee is upcycled materials, right?
39:22
So we're taking date pits from Coachella Valley and those date
39:26
pits are washed and dried in Coachella and processed down
39:30
there. We then send them up to Seattle.
39:32
And you can imagine in our factory in Seattle, in one door
39:35
comes the date pits and strawberry fire.
39:39
You know, all all the things that we buy, all the ingredients
39:42
that go into our coffee come in the door and they go through a
39:45
series of of steps and you can kind of almost think of our
39:48
place like it's a bit of a brewery.
39:50
It's a bit of a of a cracker making facility.
39:54
It's a it's a coffee roaster, you know, and then it has of
39:57
course, the grinders and the packaging and everything else
39:59
that you would expect, but it has a lot of little components
40:03
in it that you would never see together in one spot.
40:06
And that's kind of the magic is taking them through this, this.
40:12
The amusement center, if you will, in our in our facility and
40:17
and creating those experiences. What is the future of Atomo?
40:22
Near future? Far future.
40:24
Well, near future is that we're just so excited to launch this
40:29
kind of 5050 blends, right so to partner with coffee and to show
40:35
consumers that there's no trade-offs, you know, if you
40:40
drink. Tomo blended with coffee, you
40:43
have absolutely no trade-offs. If you drink a Tomo pure, no
40:47
trade-offs as well. But it's like when you blend it,
40:50
it literally is a mind blower. So you could, all of us could
40:53
cut our, our, our, you know, our impact on the planet by just
40:57
doing that and we would have no trade off.
40:59
So that's the biggest thing I'm I'm excited about.
41:01
Clearly you can tell I'm excited is like working with coffee to
41:06
help us all be better. The dream that I have is that
41:08
you can wake up every morning. And do something good for the
41:12
planet. And my theory is that if you
41:15
wake up every morning and do something good for the planet,
41:17
that you might actually then do something good for the planet at
41:20
lunch too, or at dinner or later on.
41:22
So I like this idea of waking up and doing something good for the
41:25
planet right away. And that puts you in the right
41:27
frame of mind for the rest of your day.
41:30
So for me, like if we could have a Tomo have that type of impact,
41:33
you know, that's that's what I'm looking for.
41:36
When you're out there having an impact, let's say, or you're
41:39
preparing for the next adventure and you stop in a traditional
41:43
coffee shop which will someday have a tomo coffee on the menu,
41:47
but maybe today they don't. What is it that you're you're
41:49
going to order? Oh, wow, Well, I mean in
41:52
Americano and they'll and I'll say small and they'll say, well
41:57
our smallest is 12 ounce. And I'll be like, we'll just put
42:00
8 ounces in and they'll say, well, I we can't do that.
42:02
I'm like, no, no, just don't put as much water in.
42:04
And they're like, oh, OK, you know, so that is what I always
42:08
have to do. Now.
42:09
That's the drive through espresso stand I'm talking about
42:11
right there. You know, the nice classy shops
42:13
to get it. But a very kind of short
42:16
Americano is my favorite. Is there anything I didn't ask
42:20
today or that you think is important for people to know
42:23
about what it is that you're doing before we let you back
42:27
into this wonderful world of of be in the scoffy adventures?
42:33
Well, you know, I think I would just make kind of one last
42:36
statement around the future of coffee.
42:39
You know, and that is like, most people just don't know that
42:43
coffee is that it has an impact on the planet and that it
42:48
actually is in trouble. And so if there is one, there's
42:52
a couple pieces of data I'd love to just share.
42:54
Like 1 is if you drink 2 cups of coffee a day, it takes about 20
42:59
coffee trees to support your habit, right?
43:03
So it's 20 coffee trees out there for you in the world to
43:07
support your daily habit. And half of those have to move
43:12
right over the next 30 years. We know that and so.
43:17
And when you say that, just to clarify, you mean they have to
43:20
move because climate is changing in those places won't be able to
43:23
sustain coffee farms, Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:28
And there's a story that I can tell kind of about this, which
43:31
is a, you know, a trip I took to Peru.
43:32
I went, I had to find out what is causing deforestation in the
43:38
Amazon. Is coffee involved in that?
43:41
I need to see it for myself. I need to understand like what
43:44
is going on in the coffee industry.
43:46
So I went down to Peru. I went out to the Amazonas
43:51
region. I then met a coffee farmer.
43:54
Three of us on a motorcycle went on dirt paths up to a hillside
44:00
we climbed for. Probably 8 hours.
44:03
I was, they said I was the very first person outside of the
44:06
village to even go to this coffee farm.
44:09
And let me tell you, I fell down so many times.
44:12
It was like it was muddy. It was steep.
44:16
I get up there, I can hear chainsaws going all the time in
44:18
the background. This is where I went was the
44:21
places where you can still homestead in Peru.
44:23
You just have to go a little bit further than the last guy and
44:25
you get your 5 hectares and you can, you know, homestead and you
44:28
can become a coffee farmer. And what I found was that first
44:33
of all, these coffee farmers out there are working at, they're
44:37
working so hard. They're living in total poverty.
44:41
You know, they have maybe a wooden Hut with no windows, you
44:45
know, and they're cooking them over wood, you know, wood fires.
44:49
And they've, they're, they're absolutely on the edge of just
44:54
existing. They then have to clear the land
44:57
and, you know, plant coffee. And then they find that they
45:02
really can't make enough money to even sustain the dream.
45:05
The whole dream that they had was that they would be able to
45:07
get out of poverty, that they would be able to make a life for
45:10
themselves. And what they're finding is that
45:13
they can't even hardly get paid what it costs to make this
45:16
coffee. And so I found that this was the
45:20
part of the depressing story, was that, you know, people.
45:24
Were. Causing damage to the planet to
45:27
try to make a better life for themselves.
45:28
They were, you know, removing more forest, which is hurting,
45:31
of course, the animal life, it's hurting the biodiversity.
45:34
And they're doing that in the name of providing the world with
45:38
coffee. And then in many cases, the
45:40
coffee wasn't even that good, right?
45:43
So that's kind of the kicker, right?
45:45
As the road gets closer, what we saw is that those, those farmers
45:49
that, oh, the roads closer now. Well, now I can use
45:52
agrochemicals to, to try to get a better yield out of my land.
45:57
Of course, they don't have any safety equipment.
45:59
So they're, you know, they're, they're poisoning themselves and
46:02
then they're poisoning the groundwater.
46:03
And in the village I was in, the groundwater was actually, you
46:07
know, poisoned now because of all the agrochemicals they put
46:10
in, right, you know, in right outside the village.
46:13
So there's a, there's a side to coffee, you know, that is a bit
46:18
challenging. And the, the, the playbook that
46:22
we've used for the last 200 years, the coffee playbook is to
46:28
take forested lands, remove the trees, put coffee in and put low
46:34
wage people in those environments to grow coffee for
46:38
us so we can enjoy it at a very low price.
46:41
That has been the playbook. And what we're saying is like,
46:45
there's got to be a better way. Like for the next 100 years, do
46:48
we want to repeat the same playbook where we just keep
46:50
tearing down forests and keep relying on low wage workers to
46:55
provide coffee for us? Like so for us, we want the
46:59
coffee farmers that are out there today to grow the best
47:02
coffee they can. We want them to be successful.
47:05
We frankly need them to be successful.
47:07
All of us need them to be successful.
47:09
But what we don't want is we just don't want to have another
47:13
100 years of the same playbook of, of people still deforesting
47:17
more and more land to grow coffee.
47:19
So in my perfect world, we would stop any coffee farming
47:24
expansion and we would find other ways.
47:27
We would broaden our horizons. We look at other ingredients
47:30
that we can use to create coffee without doing any more harm.
47:35
I really appreciate that, that story and I, I see that and I,
47:41
and I'm familiar with stories like that, with what you're
47:46
doing. You know, one of the, the
47:48
hiccups that people run into that I run into is thinking how
47:55
do I really make an impact? And it, and from our
47:58
conversation today, it sounds like that's a question you ask
48:00
yourself and you're seeking a way to do that on a bigger
48:03
scale. Where do you continually go?
48:07
Where do you go when you are looking to refill kind of that
48:10
hope bucket? You know that this is feasible.
48:14
This it doesn't, you know, maybe today people are saying they're
48:18
not ready, but we're on a timeline here that isn't
48:21
sustainable. Where do you how do you sustain
48:24
yourself or, you know, in the industry?
48:27
How do you pass that along to say, hey, here's an idea?
48:31
I imagine there has to be like an alternator belt in a car.
48:34
You have to kind of keep running around in the circle, lifting
48:38
yourself up somehow. How do you manage that?
48:41
Yeah, I just had to go do that, you know, this last weekend,
48:46
right? So I had to go get that tune up.
48:48
So I'll just. Get really personal here.
48:50
You know, it's like I have found that I basically incorporated a
48:56
spiritual, I call him a spiritual cowboy.
48:58
All right, I got an 84 year old, 84 year old spiritual.
49:03
Cowboy in my life, I think having a spiritual program, and
49:07
I'm not talking about just a a standard religious, you know,
49:11
approach. I'm just saying like having a
49:15
kind of understanding that there are forces in the universe that
49:18
are greater than myself. All right, And then
49:21
understanding that I need to or for me to be satisfied and happy
49:27
that I need to be make sure that I'm following what it is that I
49:30
believe is going to bring me satisfaction and personal
49:34
fulfillment, but at the same time turning over the outcome
49:39
because because I don't control anything, you know, I don't
49:43
control. I always look at it to remind
49:45
myself I'm like, I don't control Citibank.
49:47
I don't know why I always say Citibank, but I always say
49:50
Citibank. I don't control.
49:51
Citibank All right, So you know, I don't control anything.
49:54
And I have to remind myself that the outcome, a lot of us get
50:00
tied to outcomes, right? And we when we don't get the
50:02
outcome, we look. For.
50:03
We all sudden think that we're, we're doing it wrong or we're
50:06
doing it bad or something. And what I've really, you know,
50:10
focused on a lot is like, put my intentions out there, say it
50:14
from the heart, be authentic, authentically be myself.
50:19
And those times when I'm trying to adjust who I am to fit
50:24
someone else, those are times when I have a harder time.
50:28
I kind of lose my way a little bit or it feels like you're
50:30
swimming more upstream. And the times where I feel like
50:34
I'm really clear with what I want to do, I'm chasing that
50:37
with all my heart. That's when I feel like all
50:40
sudden you attract the people to you that help you, you know,
50:45
succeed. And it's, it is just the what
50:48
I've seen happen repeatedly, repeatedly in my life.
50:51
You know, there was years ago where I was, I was doing a start
50:54
up that was a mobile payments company and and I realized the
50:59
banks don't need to make any more money.
51:01
Why are people, you know, people don't even need to buy any more
51:04
stuff. People should stop buying so
51:05
much stuff, frankly. So it's like, you know, what am
51:07
I doing with my life? And I realized I had no
51:09
satisfaction in what I was doing and I didn't really feel like I
51:12
was even making a difference in the world, at least making a
51:14
positive difference in the world.
51:16
And so now that I've kind of gone back to the roots, so, so
51:22
for me, you say, how do I keep going?
51:24
And I, I have to actually check in with my, my spiritual guru.
51:29
You know, I do a lot of reading of, of different kind of faiths
51:34
and, and different practices to kind of gain some, some
51:40
stillness. I, I surrender a lot of things,
51:43
you know, always kind of surrendering things over do a
51:46
lot of just accepting people and things as how they are and, and
51:52
there are no bad outcomes. You know, every outcome is good.
51:56
You know, that is, that is a belief that is a hard one to
52:00
it's a hard one to always remember, but it's one that I
52:02
like to remind myself is that every outcome is good.
52:06
I would say there's some principles that I use that I
52:07
repeat and I'm good at and there's ones that I'm still
52:10
learning and I'm still struggling to find and reach and
52:13
implement. And that's OK.
52:16
Like for me I am not expecting my.
52:20
Personal, you know, insides to be perfect, yet probably never
52:26
going to be right. So let's just own it.
52:28
You know, like I'm not perfect, not going to be.
52:31
And I just want to make sure like I can have some happiness
52:33
and some fulfilment as I go through my life and.
52:36
So to answer your question, how do you keep motivated?
52:38
How do you keep going after it? And I would guess I would
52:41
summarize all of it by saying being of service like the times
52:47
in my life where I've been of service and saw that I'm going
52:49
to be of service to this industry, I'm going to be of
52:51
service to the planet. I'm going to be of service to my
52:54
employees or anyone. Those are times when I actually
52:57
find that my I'm aligned kind of in the right way to to have the.
53:03
Quality of life that I'm looking for.
53:06
Andy, I, I really appreciate that that thought and you
53:09
sharing that with us. What a fun conversation.
53:13
Thank you for being here. I'm looking forward to seeing
53:16
kind of where this, this project and, and this company goes and,
53:19
and how people respond to it. Frankly, I think is going to be
53:21
a really interesting for as an observer, as an outsider and
53:25
probably chaotic emotionally for you.
53:27
So I I'm I'm here with you, hoping that everything goes
53:30
well. Hey, everything is good,
53:33
remember? OK, a big thank you to Andy for
53:48
being here today and some quick key takeaways from the podcast.
53:52
Is beanless coffee coffee? Is it the physical being that
53:57
creates the coffee or is it the experience?
54:00
That is the argument being put forth by Andy, and you're going
54:03
to have to decide for yourself. Someday in our lifetime, we may
54:07
be forced to decide, especially if we're unable to slow the
54:10
impacts of climate change on coffee farms.
54:14
How does Atomo create a coffee without the coffee?
54:17
The answer at its simplest is that they analyze coffee to
54:20
create a database of essential flavor components and then found
54:23
those flavors elsewhere, bundled them together to create a
54:27
product that resembles what we know is ground coffee and
54:29
appearance, flavor and experience.
54:32
But don't let all the science he talked fool or frighten you.
54:36
The ingredients are farm grown natural foods, Whole Foods, and
54:39
upcycled food products like date pits.
54:42
The motivation for Andy to start a company, any company, was to
54:45
do something better for the planet.
54:48
He decided he was going to explore all sorts of industries
54:51
until he found an opportunity that spoke to him.
54:54
Redesigning a more sustainable coffee drinking experience was
54:58
the idea that floored him first, then inspired and motivated him
55:01
to launch Tomo. But to do something better for
55:04
the planet in a timely manner is a bigger challenge than just
55:07
convincing the specialty craft community that this product was
55:11
needed. The production needs to be done
55:13
at scale, and even though they aren't seeking to change the
55:16
coffee experience, transitioning some of the demand for
55:20
traditional coffee is a necessary component in making
55:23
long term change, at least according to Andy.
55:26
In coffee, that means collaboration and or acceptance
55:30
by the largest coffee companies in the world to either take on
55:33
the challenge of bean less coffee or by offering a blend of
55:37
bean and bean less to the masses.
55:40
A question that Andy is putting forth to the industry as a whole
55:43
is can you participate in coffee sustainably if right now, today,
55:48
you aren't taking into account the future impacts of coffee
55:52
growth, demand, transport and so on, especially as it'll impact
55:57
climate change. Our small efforts at
55:59
sustainability in your cafe or your roaster space.
56:02
A bit like throwing a wiffle ball into the wind, where one
56:05
gets to feel good about the effort, but the result is that
56:09
the ball lands behind us. It is a big and scary, scary
56:13
question. One that might make us feel
56:16
uncomfortable even, but also perhaps inspire us to be better
56:19
consumers for having considered it.
56:22
Finally, Otomo is looking to work with the coffee industry,
56:25
not against it. You can buy 5050 blends of their
56:28
beanless coffee mixed with a roasters traditional bean.
56:31
You'll find listings on a Tomo coffee.com or on Amazon.
56:34
And just like a bag of coffee, the prices range between 14 and
56:38
$22.00. You'll find a lot more from
56:41
today's show, including a look at some of the ingredients in a
56:43
beanless coffee in our newsletter found on
56:46
roastwestcoast.com. Thanks again to Andy for being
56:49
here to share his story and thanks to you for listening to
56:52
it. I thank you again for tapping
56:54
the follow button and offering us some stars in the ratings and
56:57
telling your friends about this podcast.
57:00
I'm always telling my friends about Rostar Coffee packaging
57:02
found at rostar.com. They are this podcasts
57:06
presenting sponsor, as I mentioned up at the top and they
57:09
will help you tell the big story of your small business.
57:12
They've been an incredible support in enabling us to
57:14
develop this platform where we share the stories of coffee
57:17
people and they have a very impressive new design lab for
57:21
anyone looking to DIY their packaging.
57:24
I'm a big supporter and believer in working with great graphic
57:27
designers, but if you're not quite ready for that, the Design
57:30
Lab on rostar.com is an excellent place to start.
57:34
This show is also supported by some great coffee industry
57:36
partners, Zumbar Coffee and Tea, Maria Coffee, Cape Horn Green
57:40
Coffee, Importers, Crossings Coffee, and to say a coffee
57:43
source, Ignite Coffee Company, Ascend Coffee Roasters, me and
57:47
my uncle, Coffee Craft, 42 Roasters, Relative Coffee
57:50
Company, and Cozy Canine Coffee. I've got some exciting news
57:54
about a collaboration with Cozy Canine coming up in 2025.
57:58
And our friends at Maria Coffee have dropped a collaboration
58:01
roast with artist Skywalker. He's one of my favorite
58:04
muralists. You can find that link in the
58:06
newsletter. I hope that you're getting a
58:08
chance to relax this week, but if you're doing some last minute
58:12
holiday travel and desperate for content, stay tuned.
58:15
We dropped a second episode today featuring Stacey Linden,
58:18
the cupping lab manager at Swiss Water Decaf.
58:21
Find it? Well, wherever you just listen
58:24
to this episode seems pretty obvious.
58:27
This show, the Coffee People podcast is part of the Roast
58:30
West Coast Coffee Network and this episode is was has been
58:34
written, produced, researched and recorded by me, Ryan Wolt.
58:37
Wherever you find yourself today, I hope it is with a fine
58:40
cup of coffee. Thank you for listening to us
58:42
tell the stories of coffee people.
58:45
Cheers, everyone. Hey everyone, this is your host,
58:56
Ryan Wolt. Again, just checking in to let
58:58
you know that while we don't do a lot of affiliate marketing, we
59:02
do partner with a couple of companies that we really believe
59:04
in, namely Burrata and Hydro Flask and simply good coffee
59:08
Brewers. We recently had a collaboration,
59:11
Coffee Roast come out with a relative coffee company out of
59:13
Minneapolis. If you end up going into the
59:15
podcast notes and clicking the links, if you end up buying
59:18
something, a little bit of that money comes back to supporting
59:21
the show. We really appreciate that
59:23
support and and frankly depend on it to keep the lights on a
59:26
little bit. So if you're looking for
59:28
something new or you want a great bag of coffee, give it a
59:31
try. Click the link.
59:32
We really appreciate you. If you are in the early stages
59:37
of your coffee journey, we want to support you.
59:40
Check out the Coffee Smarter Education podcasts.
59:43
Coffee Smarter is designed to enable coffee drinkers to brew a
59:47
better cup of coffee at home, and Coffee Smarter Pro covers
59:51
industry specific topics for baristas, roasters, shop owners,
59:55
and aspiring coffee professionals.
59:57
You'll find both shows on your favorite podcast platforms or on
1:00:01
our website at coffeesmarterpodcast.com.