Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Matthew Liberatore Still Needs Fixing, Nolan Gorman Breakout Incoming? Nathan Church LOCK for CF?

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Matthew Liberatore Still Needs Fixing, Nolan Gorman Breakout Incoming? Nathan Church LOCK for CF? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:13
Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Lance Lynn. And Lance, the Cardinals are
0:17
Speaker 1: still hanging on. They salvage a win against the Orioles.
0:22
Speaker 1: And now the Buccos are in town as the Cardinals
0:25
Speaker 1: will try to stay in this thing. Quinn Matthews will
0:29
Speaker 1: get the start tonight. This will be his fourth start
0:31
Speaker 1: of the season, Lance. We've seen three so far, two
0:35
Speaker 1: pretty good. And the last one, he got beat up
0:39
Speaker 1: by the Phillies a little bit. Phillies obviously have a
0:43
Speaker 1: really good lineup and he gave, gave up 10 hits,
0:47
Speaker 1: seven runs over five innings, but we've seen this guy
0:50
Speaker 1: looks like he can be the real deal. What have
0:53
Speaker 1: you seen from Quinn?
0:56
Speaker 2: Well, like you said, we've seen a little good and
0:57
Speaker 2: we've seen a little bad. So I think it's still
1:00
Speaker 2: a wait and see. And we forgot to call Kyle
1:03
Speaker 2: out for pulling the shoot right before the, right before
1:05
Speaker 2: the broadcast started. So, We had to have a spot
1:08
Speaker 2: starter today or we just didn't have anybody for Kyle.
1:11
Speaker 2: So Kyle pulled the shoe today. I don't know if
1:14
Speaker 2: he's ever done that in his career, but I'm going
1:16
Speaker 2: to give him help right now for a game start.
1:19
Speaker 2: And the relievers got to eat some innings and get
1:21
Speaker 2: sent down on him. That's what he just did to
1:23
Speaker 2: us today. But Quinn, right? The last game was no good.
1:28
Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say it. It was
1:30
Speaker 2: tough and all that. I think you're looking at, we
1:32
Speaker 2: got 14 innings so far. We have seven based on balls.
1:35
Speaker 2: The strikeouts are, Almost one per nine. So you kind
1:38
Speaker 2: of hope that last game was, hey, good team, tough
1:42
Speaker 2: ballpark to pitch in. We go from there. Let's see
1:45
Speaker 2: how he bounces back, right? You know a lot about
1:47
Speaker 2: a guy on what they do the game after they
1:50
Speaker 2: get slapped around a little bit. So it's going to
1:52
Speaker 2: be a big game for him. See how he bounces back.
1:55
Speaker 2: See what the makeup is mentally and his toughness. So
1:59
Speaker 2: that's where we're at, really. It's easy to go four
2:02
Speaker 2: innings and whatever he's done in his first couple games.
2:05
Speaker 2: And then you kind of get out of there before
2:06
Speaker 2: they see you a third time through and stuff like that.
2:09
Speaker 2: But his third start of the year in the big leagues,
2:14
Speaker 2: a big league lineup that's a playoff caliber lineup slapped
2:18
Speaker 2: him around. So hopefully it's a wake-up call. We can
2:20
Speaker 2: make some adjustments, and then we see how he bounces
2:22
Speaker 2: back today. But the stuff's there, so we just see
2:24
Speaker 2: where he goes from here.
2:26
Speaker 1: I like his personal makeup. He's kind of quirky. You
2:30
Speaker 1: could tell he's a confident young man. I like that
2:32
Speaker 1: in the starting picture, but I'm just curious when you
2:35
Speaker 1: think back to your first, maybe first appearances or starts
2:40
Speaker 1: as a veteran, you have a track record, you have
2:43
Speaker 1: a bad one, you flush it and you move on
2:45
Speaker 1: as a young guy.
2:46
Speaker 2: Do you wear that?
2:47
Speaker 1: And are you, even if you're a confident guy, are
2:50
Speaker 1: you maybe overthinking it?
2:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, you, you, you do deep dive. It eats at
2:55
Speaker 2: you a little bit. Cause you're here's in this. Well,
2:58
Speaker 2: I say that. He's in a point now where I
2:59
Speaker 2: think he knows he's getting the rest of the starts,
3:01
Speaker 2: so it shouldn't wear at you. When you're on a
3:03
Speaker 2: team that you are maybe filling in or maybe you
3:07
Speaker 2: are auditioning to be there the rest of the year
3:10
Speaker 2: and help the team make a playoffs, it's a different
3:12
Speaker 2: type of burden that it puts on you. I think
3:15
Speaker 2: right now it's, oh, well, that was a bad one.
3:18
Speaker 2: I've probably got four more, five more, so let's make
3:22
Speaker 2: the next one better. So hopefully that gives him a
3:23
Speaker 2: little bit easier digestion of the bad start. But when
3:28
Speaker 2: you have a bad one and you know, Hey, we're
3:31
Speaker 2: a playoff team and they're not going to let me have,
3:33
Speaker 2: you know, they're not going to have, give me a
3:35
Speaker 2: long leash.
3:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
3:36
Speaker 2: It's actually pretty, pretty good. So I think he's got
3:39
Speaker 2: it in a good spot where it's like, Hey, I
3:41
Speaker 2: know I'm going to get these starts because they've got
3:42
Speaker 2: no one. There's really no one else. No other way
3:45
Speaker 2: else to say it. They've got no one to make
3:46
Speaker 2: these starts about me and I'm going to get a chance.
3:48
Speaker 2: And hopefully Ollie and Dusty are telling him that too.
3:50
Speaker 2: It's like, Hey, bad ones happen. Let's see who you
3:53
Speaker 2: are and what your makeup is. And it's how you
3:55
Speaker 2: respond to bad things. So, Hopefully it's a good start
3:59
Speaker 2: for him, and then that's a way you can kind
4:00
Speaker 2: of build off things and know that bad ones are
4:02
Speaker 2: going to happen, and you just kind of got to
4:04
Speaker 2: keep rolling and throw those in the wayside and worry
4:07
Speaker 2: about the next one.
4:09
Speaker 1: I'm excited to watch tonight because I think he's got
4:11
Speaker 1: really good stuff, and I think if he can kind
4:14
Speaker 1: of get over that hump, he could be a very
4:16
Speaker 1: good major league pitcher. Remains to be seen. So if
4:19
Speaker 1: there were an alternate name for this podcast, aside from
4:23
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory, I think we'd call it Friends of Libby.
4:26
Speaker 1: Because we all like Libby, right? But he's in a
4:29
Speaker 1: tough spot right now. His last start wasn't good. He's
4:32
Speaker 1: had a couple of good ones sprinkled in. And I'm
4:35
Speaker 1: watching him in his last start. And gets through a
4:38
Speaker 1: couple innings. And he's getting strikeouts, right? So the swing
4:42
Speaker 1: and miss is there. But then it's like he's wheezing.
4:46
Speaker 1: He's going to the rosin bag more.
4:47
Speaker 2: And it was humid.
4:48
Speaker 1: But it wasn't a particularly hot day. And I thought
4:52
Speaker 1: he looked... like he was a little gassed in the
4:55
Speaker 1: early going. I don't know if you've seen his start,
4:58
Speaker 1: but what are you seeing?
5:00
Speaker 2: I think this time of year, I think you're going
5:02
Speaker 2: to get that, especially with the heat and the innings buildup.
5:05
Speaker 2: I think the main thing that we're seeing from a
5:07
Speaker 2: guy is we've got to get him. I think he
5:12
Speaker 2: kind of feels alone right now. When it's going well,
5:15
Speaker 2: it's easy. When it's going bad, it's like I've maybe
5:18
Speaker 2: got no no one to bounce stuff off of or
5:21
Speaker 2: something like that, and no one to help me slow
5:23
Speaker 2: things down. So I think it's a little bit of everything.
5:27
Speaker 2: You're getting that point in the season when it's tired,
5:30
Speaker 2: it's hot, you're in the midst of trying to write the, hey,
5:36
Speaker 2: I have blow-up innings or this or that, so you
5:38
Speaker 2: overthink that. It's just a lot of stuff all coming
5:43
Speaker 2: into one thing for him. I think that, you know,
5:46
Speaker 2: I was, I did this in a point in my
5:48
Speaker 2: career and I had a guy there every day with me.
5:50
Speaker 2: I had multiple guys there every day, but Chris Carpenter
5:53
Speaker 2: was great for me when I went through this similar
5:55
Speaker 2: stretch in my career where it was like, man, all
5:58
Speaker 2: of a sudden I just give up three. And then
6:00
Speaker 2: I was like, or four. And you're like, why did
6:02
Speaker 2: that just happen? And you get in the dugout and
6:04
Speaker 2: you like, don't even know how it happened. So Carp
6:06
Speaker 2: was that guy. I had Wainwright, I had Loesch, and
6:09
Speaker 2: I had Westbrook and then Lackey when I had those
6:11
Speaker 2: times where they helped me slow the game down by,
6:14
Speaker 2: letting me know what happened to them at times, and
6:16
Speaker 2: here's how they fixed it, and then you figure out
6:18
Speaker 2: how to do it on your own by talking to
6:21
Speaker 2: people that played the game, got their butt kicked on
6:26
Speaker 2: their own, and you can say, hey, I can listen
6:28
Speaker 2: to this guy because he knows what I went through.
6:31
Speaker 2: I think Libby needs a little bit of that, and
6:33
Speaker 2: I think it would go a long way, but that's
6:37
Speaker 2: just my two cents.
6:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've known you a long time, so I'm
6:41
Speaker 1: fluent in speaking Lance.
6:43
Speaker 2: You're saying.
6:44
Speaker 1: The Cardinals are paying a price for not having a
6:47
Speaker 1: veteran in the rotation, correct?
6:49
Speaker 2: They're paying a price for not having anyone in the
6:53
Speaker 2: organization with the ability to talk how to navigate a
6:56
Speaker 2: regular season as a starting pitcher because they did it.
7:00
Speaker 2: And they have a 30-start, 180 to 280 under their
7:05
Speaker 2: belt for multiple seasons. Those things go a long way,
7:08
Speaker 2: more than people would ever realize. And not one computer
7:12
Speaker 2: algorithm can quantify that. Do you reach out to Libby
7:16
Speaker 2: at all?
7:16
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know how, what the protocol is for
7:19
Speaker 1: like former teammates or ex-players.
7:22
Speaker 2: Do you reach out to him? I know you have
7:23
Speaker 2: a good relationship with him. So my protocol is if
7:28
Speaker 2: you need me, I'm always open and they all know that.
7:31
Speaker 2: And if people from like other people will tell me, Hey,
7:34
Speaker 2: he needs you or something like that, or they'll kind
7:36
Speaker 2: of reach out and other people in the clubhouse reach
7:39
Speaker 2: out and be like, Hey, what do you got for
7:41
Speaker 2: him and all that? And maybe I can plant that.
7:44
Speaker 2: And here's what I'm hearing and all that. So I,
7:47
Speaker 2: I knew when I played the person that called me
7:50
Speaker 2: sitting on the couch was a little annoying. So I
7:53
Speaker 2: never want to be that guy. So that's my, if
7:55
Speaker 2: I'm not there with you every day and going through it,
7:58
Speaker 2: then I have nothing to say. But if you need
8:00
Speaker 2: me just to chat, I was, I'm always open, but
8:02
Speaker 2: I'm not going to, I'm not going to give you
8:04
Speaker 2: my two cents on unsolicited. That's pretty good.
8:09
Speaker 1: And, what's not pretty good right now is you look
8:12
Speaker 1: at the state of the Cardinal starting rotation, which credit
8:16
Speaker 1: where it's due has been solid all year. And they've
8:19
Speaker 1: managed for a couple of seasons to not run into
8:22
Speaker 1: injuries with their starting pitchers. But right now you got
8:26
Speaker 1: Leahy on a strict innings count, right? So he might
8:29
Speaker 1: throw three innings tomorrow in his next hour. We don't know,
8:33
Speaker 1: but it's going to be a short one. And you
8:36
Speaker 1: got two guys on the IL and you're starting Matthews who,
8:40
Speaker 1: He's kind of getting pushed into it a little bit,
8:42
Speaker 1: maybe ahead of schedule. Talented.
8:44
Speaker 2: We'll see how he does. But it's a tough spot
8:46
Speaker 2: for the rotation, isn't it? Yeah, and we kind of
8:49
Speaker 2: saw it coming. I'm pretty sure I mentioned it multiple times.
8:52
Speaker 2: The likelihood of all five going every start was not
8:57
Speaker 2: going to happen just because of who you see that
9:00
Speaker 2: started the year in the rotation. They've never done it.
9:03
Speaker 2: But I think Libby and Palante were the only two
9:06
Speaker 2: that's ever actually started 30 games in a regular season
9:10
Speaker 2: or close to it. So you knew right then that
9:13
Speaker 2: this was going to be a problem at some point
9:14
Speaker 2: during the year. What happened was they maybe should have
9:19
Speaker 2: went to six man or some things like that earlier
9:22
Speaker 2: in the year and stayed with it for a longer
9:24
Speaker 2: stretch because that might have pushed these innings limits and
9:28
Speaker 2: these injuries from not happening. But we all knew at
9:32
Speaker 2: some point we were going to need Matthews. We were
9:34
Speaker 2: going to need Dobbins. We were going to need more
9:37
Speaker 2: than two guys especially when you were trading dustin may
9:41
Speaker 2: before they even broke camp so we can sit here
9:44
Speaker 2: and it's easy to say hey armchair quarterback saw it
9:47
Speaker 2: coming not surprised but i think it was the number
9:50
Speaker 2: one thing we talked about at the beginning of the
9:51
Speaker 2: year we don't know what this rotation is going to
9:53
Speaker 2: do as the season goes on because they've never done
9:56
Speaker 2: it we like their stuff we like their makeup we
9:58
Speaker 2: like who they are but we can't sit here and say,
10:01
Speaker 2: these guys are all going to throw 30 starts, 180 innings.
10:04
Speaker 2: And now we're seeing the lack of maybe depth that
10:08
Speaker 2: we saw coming and, you know, and that's part of
10:11
Speaker 2: the season. And I think that's why we knew that
10:13
Speaker 2: this was probably a rebuild just because of that. And
10:16
Speaker 2: we've played a little bit better than we thought, but
10:19
Speaker 2: It's now coming to a head at the end.
10:21
Speaker 1: The update on Palante's got an elbow issue, and he
10:24
Speaker 1: said it's fine.
10:25
Speaker 2: Imaging was clean.
10:27
Speaker 1: He expects to throw maybe a live bullpen, just make
10:30
Speaker 1: sure everything's okay. And he is set to come off
10:33
Speaker 1: the IL on the next road trip, I think, in Colorado.
10:36
Speaker 1: He believes it's going to happen. Dobbins has a forearm issue.
10:39
Speaker 1: He's going to get further testing to see what it is.
10:42
Speaker 1: We're going to take a break here. When we come back,
10:44
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Burley, who is red, Hot.
10:48
Speaker 1: You're watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
10:52
Speaker 3: It's time to remind everyone why baseball is glorious, especially
10:56
Speaker 3: nowadays where you could think your team is out of it,
10:59
Speaker 3: but they might be back in it again. Let me
11:01
Speaker 3: introduce you to the American League wildcard, KP, and let's
11:04
Speaker 3: tell everyone why they might need to head back to SeatGeek,
11:07
Speaker 3: grab some more tickets for what is a playoff race
11:11
Speaker 3: before the playoffs actually begin.
11:14
Speaker 4: Speaking about being out of it, I'm an American League
11:16
Speaker 4: East guy, and I'm talking to you Toronto fans. I'm
11:19
Speaker 4: talking to you Baltimore fans. A couple weeks ago, probably
11:22
Speaker 4: not a reason to come out to the games. Look
11:24
Speaker 4: at the standings right now. Both of you teams are
11:26
Speaker 4: right back in this wildcard race.
11:28
Speaker 2: Rangers fans, we can go on and on.
11:31
Speaker 3: Mariners fans, you might be feeling a little queasy, but
11:33
Speaker 3: you're still in this thing too. So all of you
11:36
Speaker 3: should head to SeatGeek and get yourself 10% off your
11:40
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11:44
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11:47
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11:51
Speaker 3: use it later.
11:53
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of bright spots for the
11:54
Speaker 1: Cardinals offensively. Certainly Alec Burleson is one of them. He's
11:58
Speaker 1: having a tremendous month. He's hitting 330 and he's been
12:01
Speaker 1: good all year, but he's gotten even hotter now. He's
12:04
Speaker 1: got a 13 game hitting streak going. I was talking
12:07
Speaker 1: to Brent Brown about Burley yesterday and he said, that, one,
12:12
Speaker 1: Burley prepares harder than anyone they have on their team
12:16
Speaker 1: in terms of working the cage, looking at the pitchers
12:20
Speaker 1: he potentially could face.
12:22
Speaker 2: But he said something else.
12:23
Speaker 1: He said Burley has spidey senses, meaning he's done the work, right,
12:28
Speaker 1: and he knows what the opposition's going to throw, but
12:32
Speaker 1: he has a feel for what pitch to sit on,
12:34
Speaker 1: if he's looking for spin or if he's sitting on
12:36
Speaker 1: a fastball. How do you approach a guy like Burley
12:39
Speaker 1: right now, Lance, who is in the zone.
12:44
Speaker 2: Well, so what helps him is 90% of pitchers are dumb,
12:48
Speaker 2: and they tell you what they're going to throw by
12:50
Speaker 2: what they think is their best pitch or this or that.
12:54
Speaker 2: So he's able to read those pitches. That's what he's
12:56
Speaker 2: telling you, the hitting coach is telling you. He knows
12:59
Speaker 2: what the guy thinks he can get him out with
13:02
Speaker 2: and how he can do it, and he will make
13:04
Speaker 2: sure that he's ready for it. And we've said this
13:07
Speaker 2: about Burley since the get-go. Burley's a ball player that
13:11
Speaker 2: likes to win and he knows what he's doing and
13:13
Speaker 2: he controls counts and he controls the barrel of the
13:16
Speaker 2: bat and he's not afraid to ruin your day as
13:19
Speaker 2: a pitcher and not just sit there and swing and
13:21
Speaker 2: miss as hard as he can. Burley could hit 30
13:23
Speaker 2: home runs and it'll be a 250 hitter, but that's
13:26
Speaker 2: not who he wants to be and what he's about
13:29
Speaker 2: because he's a ball player and he knows strikeouts are
13:32
Speaker 2: not good for you and that's why he is what
13:34
Speaker 2: he is. So he's telling you that hey, Spidey senses
13:37
Speaker 2: all this. My man prepares and he's a ball player
13:41
Speaker 2: and he reads you. And you tell him if you
13:43
Speaker 2: give him any read, he's going to exploit it and
13:46
Speaker 2: he's going to be ready to barrel it when you
13:47
Speaker 2: throw it. And that's the beauty of that guy. And
13:52
Speaker 2: I think you're seeing a guy that's not only as
13:54
Speaker 2: he's getting, coming into his own as like a no
13:57
Speaker 2: doubt locked in, this is your guy, but he's also
14:02
Speaker 2: showing you like what he can be if other people
14:05
Speaker 2: start following his lead And I think they will the
14:09
Speaker 2: more he shows what he's doing and guys can start
14:12
Speaker 2: doing the same things he's doing. So I think you're
14:14
Speaker 2: in a good spot with Burley. He's a guy that
14:15
Speaker 2: can lead in all different ways. Everybody loves him. Great teammate,
14:20
Speaker 2: great preparer, great ball player, winning baseball player, and you
14:23
Speaker 2: need those guys.
14:25
Speaker 1: And he is a ball player. I think what makes
14:27
Speaker 1: him a challenge too, and tell me if I'm wrong,
14:30
Speaker 1: he will crush a pitch that's out of the zone.
14:32
Speaker 1: So he's also unpredictable. Like if you think, yeah, I'm
14:35
Speaker 1: going to cut. kind of just throw this out here
14:38
Speaker 1: and get by what it made me up in the zone.
14:40
Speaker 1: And next thing you know, it's over the wall. I
14:43
Speaker 1: would imagine that makes it more of a challenge.
14:46
Speaker 2: Well, he's a guy that if he knows that you're
14:48
Speaker 2: going to go high heater, you got to go higher
14:51
Speaker 2: than high because he will cover that ball that you
14:54
Speaker 2: think's high enough. And he is not afraid to be
14:58
Speaker 2: prepared for it. And he's got, he's a golfer with it,
15:01
Speaker 2: with every tee shot, if that makes sense. So every,
15:04
Speaker 2: every hole, If he needs a dog leg right, dog
15:07
Speaker 2: leg left. If he needs to hook it, draw it,
15:10
Speaker 2: hit it straight. He has every shot for that hole,
15:14
Speaker 2: and that's what you're seeing as a hitter. So a
15:16
Speaker 2: little golf analogy for anyone out there who likes golf.
15:20
Speaker 2: If you're looking at, hey, I can't draw the ball,
15:22
Speaker 2: Burley's got that in his bag at the plate no
15:24
Speaker 2: matter what. I like golf.
15:27
Speaker 1: You talk about a ball player. I think you'd agree
15:30
Speaker 1: Nathan Church is, is a ball player too. And he's
15:33
Speaker 1: kind of coming into his own this month. Another guy
15:36
Speaker 1: hitting over 300. We're seeing more extra base hits sprinkled in.
15:40
Speaker 1: He's got a seven-game hitting streak. And defensively, boy, he
15:44
Speaker 1: does the job. So as the Cardinals look for who's
15:48
Speaker 1: in their plans and maybe who is where, is he
15:52
Speaker 1: the guy in center field in your view?
15:54
Speaker 2: I think he's showing that He, as of right now,
15:58
Speaker 2: he is the only guy, right? There's really not a
16:01
Speaker 2: whole lot else you can say about it. I mean,
16:02
Speaker 2: you're looking at a guy when you start the year,
16:04
Speaker 2: you're thinking fourth outfield, and let's see what he's got.
16:07
Speaker 2: He's on his way. If he keeps kind of this pace,
16:10
Speaker 2: if he can get his OPS up a little bit,
16:12
Speaker 2: like you said, the extra base hits are going to come.
16:14
Speaker 2: The extra base hits just come the older you get
16:17
Speaker 2: and the more plate appearances you get in the big
16:18
Speaker 2: leagues without trying to do it. So he's getting there
16:22
Speaker 2: at the defense place no matter what. So that's the
16:24
Speaker 2: number one thing I see as a starting pitcher. hey,
16:26
Speaker 2: I don't care if you hit as long as you
16:28
Speaker 2: catch everything you're supposed to catch, which he does. So
16:31
Speaker 2: now it's, hey, don't strike out, make the right play
16:34
Speaker 2: when you're in the box, get the runner over, make
16:37
Speaker 2: tough at bats, don't strike out on four or less pitches,
16:40
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And I think we're starting to see
16:42
Speaker 2: him understand what his role is. And then once you
16:46
Speaker 2: understand your role, then you can be the best at it.
16:48
Speaker 2: And that's what he's starting to do. I like him
16:51
Speaker 2: a little bit too burly in that sense of, He
16:54
Speaker 2: doesn't make the game harder than it is. And the
16:57
Speaker 2: more you get to play and the more you get
16:58
Speaker 2: to see things, the easier the game will get for him,
17:01
Speaker 2: I think. So I'm looking forward to seeing him the
17:04
Speaker 2: last month of just going and playing and using what
17:07
Speaker 2: he struggled with earlier this year and incorporating in his
17:10
Speaker 2: game and see what he can look, see what the
17:12
Speaker 2: end of the year looks like. I think if you
17:13
Speaker 2: look at his numbers at the end of the year,
17:15
Speaker 2: if he's 250 with 15 and OPS gets over, I mean,
17:21
Speaker 2: that'd be the OPS getting over 700. You're not, that's
17:24
Speaker 2: a pretty darn good player right there. And you only
17:27
Speaker 2: expect him to get better with confidence and more seasoning. Um,
17:31
Speaker 2: so right now he's the leader in the clubhouse, um,
17:34
Speaker 2: for center fielder of the future, unless, um, you know,
17:37
Speaker 2: someone has to, you know, someone must take that from
17:40
Speaker 2: him or they have to find something that is a
17:42
Speaker 2: lot better, um, on the market that isn't going to
17:45
Speaker 2: cost you an arm and a leg.
17:47
Speaker 1: You know, he's, uh, he's got, Speed to fill the
17:49
Speaker 1: bill in center, too. We see him stealing bases. And
17:53
Speaker 1: if you're a pitcher and you have a guy like
17:55
Speaker 1: Church who's got speed and is unafraid to run, that
17:59
Speaker 1: shakes you up a little bit. I think the more
18:01
Speaker 1: guys with speed on your team that you know might run,
18:05
Speaker 1: the more pressure it puts on opposing pitchers.
18:07
Speaker 2: I love that. Especially at the bottom of the lineup.
18:11
Speaker 2: You want the bottom of the lineup to be guys
18:12
Speaker 2: that are annoying little shits. And he has that makeup.
18:16
Speaker 2: There's really no... Like, as a starting pitcher, there's nothing
18:21
Speaker 2: worse than the 7th, 8th, 9th hitter that just ruined
18:24
Speaker 2: your day. And he has that makeup of, I think
18:27
Speaker 2: he would like to do that. So we got to
18:30
Speaker 2: let him embrace that role of being a, hey, I'm
18:33
Speaker 2: going to hit you 7th, 8th, or 9th. You're going
18:35
Speaker 2: to be a pesk. You're going to piss the other
18:38
Speaker 2: pitcher off. So he makes a mistake when JJ comes
18:41
Speaker 2: up and does those things. And you can get yourself
18:43
Speaker 2: to second base somehow for the top of the lineup.
18:46
Speaker 2: I don't care how you do it, whether it's you walk,
18:48
Speaker 2: whether it's you just do other little things. And then, hey,
18:51
Speaker 2: next thing you know, hey, if you didn't get a hit,
18:54
Speaker 2: as long as you have a six pitch at bat
18:56
Speaker 2: or something like that where we don't strike out and
18:58
Speaker 2: make an easy out, you've done your job too because
19:01
Speaker 2: you've made that pitcher annoyed before you turn the lineup over.
19:05
Speaker 2: So he has those traits. I think once he realizes
19:08
Speaker 2: that that's who he could be and he can be
19:09
Speaker 2: a very valuable part to a lineup, extending the lineup,
19:13
Speaker 2: and also making it easier for the top of the
19:15
Speaker 2: lineup when they come back around, I think he can
19:17
Speaker 2: really do things for you. They're not going to go
19:21
Speaker 2: in the scorecard, if that makes sense. As you know,
19:24
Speaker 2: some of the best ballplayers, their biggest attributes were never
19:28
Speaker 2: on a scorecard.
19:30
Speaker 1: You're having a big show, Lance. I think you know that.
19:32
Speaker 1: So we move to the next topic, and that will
19:35
Speaker 1: be Nolan Gorman, who's getting some runway coverage. We don't
19:39
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen with Blaze Jordan, by the way,
19:42
Speaker 1: who was at third, hurt his knee. Hopefully it's not
19:45
Speaker 1: something serious, but we're getting a look at Nolan Gorman
19:48
Speaker 1: either way. and the other day he homered and i'm
19:51
Speaker 1: happy for gorman because look power plays in major league
19:55
Speaker 1: baseball if he can cut down on the strikeouts and
19:58
Speaker 1: kind of be a little bit more sustainable in terms
20:01
Speaker 1: of batting average again on base someone's going to want
20:04
Speaker 1: that guy what are you seeing from gorman i.
20:07
Speaker 2: Want that guy i've told you this from the get-go
20:09
Speaker 2: i think we've always said The moment he got the
20:11
Speaker 2: chance to play third every day when they traded Ray Notto,
20:14
Speaker 2: I was like, man, I really hope that we can
20:17
Speaker 2: figure out how for him to hit 240. Because if
20:20
Speaker 2: he can hit 240 with his power and all that,
20:23
Speaker 2: he's going to be a very good Major League player
20:25
Speaker 2: because he can play defense. His defense was underrated. I
20:29
Speaker 2: think it plays even better at third if my man
20:32
Speaker 2: can just stop swinging and missing so much. I love
20:35
Speaker 2: him to death. And you've known this. I've talked about
20:38
Speaker 2: him from the get-go. I think Nolan Gorman has the
20:41
Speaker 2: ability to be a 25-plus homer every year guy. It's just, man,
20:46
Speaker 2: we just got to just lock something in. I don't
20:50
Speaker 2: know if it's, hey, we change our approach on what
20:53
Speaker 2: we're looking for or something like that and just try
20:56
Speaker 2: to key in on a certain pitch, a certain thing
21:00
Speaker 2: for each pitcher so we can maybe shrink the strike
21:03
Speaker 2: zone down and maybe shrink our swing and miss down
21:06
Speaker 2: by not trying to cover the whole plate. But man,
21:09
Speaker 2: if he can do something like that, you've got a
21:12
Speaker 2: 24-year-old with 30 home run power. You can't give up
21:18
Speaker 2: on that. I know it's frustrating for fans, but I'm hoping,
21:21
Speaker 2: and this is my hope, not only for him and
21:23
Speaker 2: Cardinals fans, is next year we're looking at him being
21:27
Speaker 2: Jordan Walker-ish breakout, like what we've seen with Jordan this year.
21:33
Speaker 2: He has that capability, and that's what I hope for.
21:36
Speaker 2: And it's like Walker, too, because... It wouldn't come out
21:39
Speaker 2: of the blue. We've seen Gorman excel at the Major
21:41
Speaker 2: League level. He's just got to find it again. All right,
21:44
Speaker 2: we're going to take our final break. You're watching Cardinal
21:46
Speaker 2: Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
21:52
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22:50
Speaker 1: Luis Gascalon is a 24-year-old kid who was really good
22:56
Speaker 1: at the AAA level. The Cardinals bring him up. The
22:58
Speaker 1: talk was he's got an unbelievable changeup, which he does.
23:02
Speaker 1: And he gets in some games, gets hit around a
23:04
Speaker 1: little bit. You know why? because it's his first taste
23:07
Speaker 1: of big league baseball since then he has been absolutely
23:12
Speaker 1: lights out and he has been making some really good
23:15
Speaker 1: big league hitters look clueless at the plate. And if
23:20
Speaker 1: you look at what he has, he got a sweeper,
23:21
Speaker 1: he's got a slider fastball and he's got that change up,
23:25
Speaker 1: but it looks like he's figured out how to pitch
23:27
Speaker 1: sequence to mix it up where no one can sit
23:31
Speaker 1: on any particular pitch. How important is that Lance?
23:35
Speaker 2: It's huge. I think anyone can tell you, any major
23:37
Speaker 2: league hitter can tell you, if you have one excellent pitch,
23:40
Speaker 2: but you have nothing to protect it, they're going to
23:43
Speaker 2: eventually hit it. What we're seeing out of him since
23:46
Speaker 2: he's got here, he's gotten comfortable. Catcher's got a good
23:49
Speaker 2: idea of what he likes to do, how he likes
23:50
Speaker 2: to do it, where he can do it. Same with
23:52
Speaker 2: the coaching staff when they're game planning for hitters and
23:56
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And then now he's getting confidence because
23:59
Speaker 2: he's throwing the pitches that he's comfortable with in the
24:01
Speaker 2: certain counts, and he's able to mix those, tunnel them,
24:05
Speaker 2: however we want to say, the pitch mix, tunneling this
24:08
Speaker 2: and that to protect his changeup. And every other offering
24:12
Speaker 2: might not be great or might not be sabermetrically appealing.
24:18
Speaker 2: But if you do enough of everything, it keeps them
24:22
Speaker 2: honest and then they can't sit on your best pitch.
24:24
Speaker 2: And then one of those pitches can go well enough
24:26
Speaker 2: with it where it's in a good spot where, hey,
24:30
Speaker 2: you see what he's doing now. So he's got enough
24:32
Speaker 2: pitch mix to protect his changeup. And then he's got
24:37
Speaker 2: other ways to get you out besides that changeup. And
24:40
Speaker 2: then when you have those abilities as a reliever, you
24:42
Speaker 2: can go just, hey, I'm going to dominate for these
24:44
Speaker 2: three hitters and go do it. It doesn't matter what
24:47
Speaker 2: I throw, where I throw it, because I know what
24:48
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do. And I know the next pitch
24:50
Speaker 2: off of it. And that slows the game down for you.
24:52
Speaker 2: So the game's getting slower and getting a little easier
24:55
Speaker 2: for him because he knows what he's trying to accomplish.
24:57
Speaker 2: And he knows the next play before it even comes up.
25:01
Speaker 2: And there's nothing better as a pitcher When you already
25:03
Speaker 2: know what you're throwing after this pitch, after you know
25:06
Speaker 2: how it's going to sequence off of it and stuff
25:09
Speaker 2: like that, because that just makes it easier to pitch, man.
25:12
Speaker 2: And we're seeing it. It's fun to watch. As a pitcher,
25:14
Speaker 2: it's fun to watch a guy do that without 100
25:17
Speaker 2: miles an hour of, you know, you can't hit me.
25:20
Speaker 2: It's like, hey, I'm still going to get you out
25:21
Speaker 2: and make you look silly, and that's fun. Nasty, gassy,
25:24
Speaker 2: they come.
25:25
Speaker 1: You know, it also, I think, says something about him,
25:28
Speaker 1: about his mental makeup, because.
25:30
Speaker 2: He did get.
25:30
Speaker 1: Hit around a little bit, and that's his first taste
25:33
Speaker 1: of big league baseball. Got right back on the horse
25:36
Speaker 1: and didn't take very much time. So there's something in
25:38
Speaker 1: him where he wants to compete.
25:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a reliever, you've got to be a little
25:42
Speaker 2: bit dumb and a little bit short-minded. So we're seeing
25:46
Speaker 2: that a little bit out of him. But also we're
25:48
Speaker 2: seeing a guy who really knows what his craft is.
25:52
Speaker 2: And as a 24-year-old, most people don't. But I'm going
25:56
Speaker 2: to guess most of his life, if he's got such
25:58
Speaker 2: a good changeup, He's been a little crafty as the
26:01
Speaker 2: days went on. So this makes it a little easier
26:03
Speaker 2: for him to adjust at the big league level. It's, oh, hey,
26:07
Speaker 2: they're hitting this pitch in this count. Or, hey, you're
26:09
Speaker 2: getting behind. You're doing this. Here's how you get ahead.
26:11
Speaker 2: Here's how you do it. And it's like, oh, cool,
26:13
Speaker 2: got it. He seems to be one of those guys
26:15
Speaker 2: where if I have a game plan and I know
26:17
Speaker 2: what I'm supposed to do, I can go execute it.
26:19
Speaker 2: He's not just a thrower. He's a pitcher. So I
26:21
Speaker 2: think that makes it easier to bounce back. And when
26:24
Speaker 2: you have something that you can always go to, right,
26:27
Speaker 2: if it's changeups that good, You always have something that
26:30
Speaker 2: you have in your back pocket no matter what happens
26:33
Speaker 2: in a game. You just got to protect it a
26:34
Speaker 2: little bit, and he's doing that.
26:36
Speaker 1: Kyle Gibson faded us. Lance Lynn picked up the slack
26:40
Speaker 1: by having a huge show. Lance, we appreciate it. Always
26:44
Speaker 1: fun to.
26:44
Speaker 2: Talk to you.
26:45
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
26:48
Speaker 1: We'll see you for the next episode. Hopefully that one
26:50
Speaker 1: won't suck.