Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 409 - The Dangers of Denying Original Sin

Transcript

Ep. 409 - The Dangers of Denying Original Sin · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Denying original sin lays a foundation for self-righteousness.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: It just opens a highway for self-righteousness to come through as a vehicle.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what's happened within society.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you deny the fact that you've got original sin, then you'll think that self-righteousness can save you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I take strong consolation in the original sin that's in my members because I can't help but be drawn to sin like a the magnet goes to the north.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at Romans 7, and I know there's controversy over Romans 7, was it pre-or post Paul's conversion, but I get consolation to know that's exactly where I am, where I just say, Oh wretched man, who will free me from this body of death?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have that propensity to sin.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the answer to self-righteousness, the slayer of self-righteousness, is the law.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It brings the knowledge of sin.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: It puts the fear of God on people.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so often I see it happen where someone just did a video the other day where a guy said, Do you think there's an afterlife?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Yeah.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Heaven and hell.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are you going to hell?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way I could go to hell.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Three minutes later, he says, I'm going to hell because the law did his duty.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It just disturbed the conscience.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_05: Cranky, rude, mean, nasty, sluggish, and sleepy.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_05: Who else could I be describing but Oscar Navarro on his recent prideful two-week hiatus from coffee?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was the seven dwarves.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't cranky.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, mean, rude.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_05: No one could tell.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_05: I had to tell you.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_05: I should say though, fake coffee, because of course it didn't have flavored creamer, which is fake coffee.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_05: It's just coffee.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: I did.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: I took a two-week hiatus.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: So update.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: You thought we forgot we did it.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: All because we were out to dinner, and my wife said, I don't think you can do it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like I said, prideful hiatus.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: That's true.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: But there okay, well, that was the start of it.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: But then the second part, we were we were with some friends, we were on a double date, and he mentioned that he tried stop to stop drinking coffee and after three days he was experiencing major migraines and he couldn't do it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so the second thought was, man, I don't ever want to be beholden to anything, even things that I enjoy.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: So let me take two weeks off to prove, you know, some Spurgeon did something very similar.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, let me make sure that I'm not beholden to this thing.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I I think I was a little sluggish, but I didn't know Tanya was the one that pointed out I think you're a little sluggish.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: So you followed through, you went all two weeks.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: All two weeks, yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: And and how, I mean, how was it overall?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: Would you I didn't feel anything, though I've been told I felt a little sluggish.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: I was really excited to have that cup of coffee after two weeks.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: The flavor.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: It was the flavor.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: And here's the other thing, too, is my it ruined my morning routine.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Because as you guys know, I wake up at five and I spend about an hour um praying, reading, meditating, and during that time I'm slowly sipping on good coffee.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that I didn't realize how much that is a part of that rejoicing.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: That's therapeutic.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's therapeutic and it's enjoyable.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: And so to not have something enjoyable during that time just messed with that time for me.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's interesting.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think it's human nature?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if someone says to me, You can't climb up those that escalator backwards or whatever.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: I something kicks in and I'm just gonna do it.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like Crosska.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I uh that was the closest I've ever come to death.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the best heart test I'd ever had.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_05: Well, what's funny is I gave you the challenge and you go up and you disappear for like five minutes.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_05: That's because I couldn't I couldn't breathe.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize what it until I got to the top.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, I cannot breathe.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what did you do?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: He ran up uh probably the longest escalator I've ever seen.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was coming down the other way.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't think he was gonna make it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_05: Like toward the end, as he was getting closer to the top.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my legs went sort of slow motion.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, it seems to be human nature if you say to someone, don't do it.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So my next sermon to unsaved people is Don't any of you repent and trust in Jesus.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: None of you do not do it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Don't even tell me about it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Don't tell me what not to do.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_05: Oscar, I I love how you know you said you, you know, you're sipping your coffee as you're praying, obviously in your hot tub in your prayer.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_05: I'm imagining Oscar, you know, Lord, I pray for these missionary being persecuted.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_06: That's about right.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I'm I uh I've had a funny relationship with coffee.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_05: Although I'll tell you, when I when I just do coffee and a Keurig, um, which I know is pretty much blasphemy to Oscar.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what's a Keurig?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_05: What's it?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's quick, it's easy.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_05: I don't feel weird and jittery.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_05: It's like when I get coffee from, you know, like usually coffee shops, or maybe it's really strong or something.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: But Starbucks has especially strong coffee.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm really, I really want to.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: Coffee is good for you.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: It really is.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it has antioxidants, there's all kinds of studies they're doing.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_05: Uh but I'm on a kick right now where I want to do healthy coffee.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_05: So uh Rachel found for me a company.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, it's a company, it's called Seven Something.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_05: It's a Christian company, and anytime you purchase, they give money toward uh pregnancy centers, which is awesome.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm gonna have her, I'm gonna get those.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they're really healthy?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: What makes them healthy?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: So what does that mean, organic?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: Which means there's not pesticides in them because a lot of coffees have pesticides in them.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you're letting me continue to drink pesticidial coffee.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_05: That's what keeps me.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is it such a wood as pesticidial?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_05: Pesticidial.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_05: Pesticidist.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_05: So anyway, but but I'm gonna try that kind of coffee uh with um maple syrup instead of flavored creamers and half like uh half and half cow-fed.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_05: Cow fed.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_05: You know what might be better than map.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Cow fed grass cow-fed grass?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like a gave, like nectar.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like honey.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_05: I thought it wasn't that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I first saw, but Rachel said that maple syrup's really good for you, actually.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's from the maple tree, isn't it?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_05: Honey is I'll mix it up.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_05: But it, you know, I just feel because I love having it, but I'm thinking this flavor too.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think the beast the bee spit would be better.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Bees bit.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: But bee spit's really good.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: New Zealand bees bit.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's pretty good.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's the honey I would use if I were you.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: I would try it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: We've got that at home.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can sell some to you.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: Turtle bomb is good.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's a good sweet.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's hard to get though.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_05: It's time for a cool classy comment.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_05: This one is a cool one.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_05: This is from Julius' friend Colette.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the other comments we have.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, none of them mattered.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: Wait, I just finished watching Les Miz, and the girl's name was Colette.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's right.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: I love the movie.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_05: Great movie.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_05: No, Cosette.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_05: Cosette.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_05: What awesome.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: You know what's funny as this.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you're testing it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_05: The adopted parents call it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_05: We'll finish the dumb episode.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_05: The adopted parents call her Colette.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_05: Next time you see your dad or grandpa, could you tell them I so deeply appreciate the Living Waters podcast?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_05: And she put a crying face.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_05: I don't have the words to express how encouraging, convicting, and helpful it's been this last year since I've discovered it, to have content to listen to that fills my heart and mind with truth.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_05: I know that sounds a little dramatic, but I really mean it.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: And think it's so cool how God used it to connect me and you to be even more strengthened and encouraged.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_05: God is just the best.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_05: He is.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: She's been listening to only a year.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: What a slash.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_05: You didn't need to say he is.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_05: Come on, Colette.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: Appreciate you.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Colette.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_05: That really does mean a lot.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, what a blessing that you are.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: Julia's friend.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_05: Julia, by the way, the authorette of a wonderful book called All Things Broken and Beautiful.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've got an idea.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like to hear it?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_05: Here we go.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Send a Make Easy Cry comment.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you make easy cry, you get a free evidence Bible.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's not that hard, trust me.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_05: You've just entered the quality questions section.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_05: This is from Peter Grossman.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'd love the full lyrics, if you're willing, to Ray Comforts in Town.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_05: I'd be overjoyed to set it to some music.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_05: Unless that's already been done.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_05: Ray, you've been talking about that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Hell's Best Kept Secret one.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_05: This is Hell's Best Gibson.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sing Ray Comforts in Town.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_06: When everything is breaking and everyone's left taking, then there is no mistaking.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_06: Ray Comforts in town.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_06: Ray Comforts in town.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_06: Uh-uh.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: It goes on and on and on.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_06: When you see an Einstein look alike and a man riding a boy's bike, oh, it goes on.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_06: What else?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_05: Something like that.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, um, no, there's another part.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_06: When you hear a thunderous sneeze, and someone saying, Did you get one of these?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_06: When a Jew preaches with a Lebanese, Ray Comforts in town.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: We should seriously put that to AI.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: AI could do something like that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Keep the same tune, couldn't it?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um sure.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you just sing it into AI and say, Make this, make this bitter.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Fix better.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_05: We'll have to try to make not all the lyrics, but we'd love some music put to it.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_05: So um, yeah, we'll have to try to figure it out.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, thank you for writing, friend.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_05: And if you see it, post it somewhere, then you know we wanted it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_05: If not, thank you very much.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_06: Get ready for a shout out from the Sheik of Shawarma.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_06: The Living Waters Podcast is the number eight top Christian podcast on Apple in Saudi Arabia.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we got a theme going.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_05: Last time was number one in Lebanon.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_05: You guys Saudi Arabia.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's true.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_05: Probably the most like intensely devout Muslim society.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So is it in English or is it in Saudi?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: In Arabic?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_05: No, I it would be in English.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but manguys.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: Man guys.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: I'm shocked.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_05: Man guys.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_05: Man guys.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_05: Man guys.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_05: Manguys, man guys.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_05: Easy's new book.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_05: Manguys, a book for men.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_05: And guys.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_05: I've been shocked by how pervasive English has become.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I mean, we obviously know it's like probably the world's second spoken most spoken language, but like I'm I'm watching some Lebanese stuff to strengthen myself in Arabic, and they constantly mix in English.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like naturally, you know.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just said with Nike nair in the end and things like that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: I just read an article that Saudi Arabia has the largest collection of empty perfume factories.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: It makes no sense.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: That's awful.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: I gotta learn to read you better, Oscar, when you're working your life.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Look at Oscar's laughing at himself.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_05: You're getting my guess.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_05: So hard not to smile.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: You're getting my guess.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's I really appreciate stand-up comics that are clean and don't smile at their dry humor.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just go, it's one guy that's the best.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: He he's he's bald and he just talks, very famous, just talks in monotone.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the monotone, because Sue said, she listened to me hearing, listening to him last night on YouTube, she says, That guy sounds boring.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I said, That's what's funny.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: What's his name?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_05: I love dry humor.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've forgotten.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but when they but but there is something though when a comedian cracks, like when he starts laughing at his own thing.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_05: Or, you know, you'll see some of those skit shows, and then it like they're acting, but they just they can't they can't see.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: The carabinette, Carabinette show had a good funny.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: You just couldn't handle it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and friends, I don't know if you noticed, but we do have two guests with us today, the Bobsy twins, Mark Spence and Oscar Navarro, dressed identically with different colors.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_05: Why did that happen, Oscar?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: I forgot my uh my sports coat.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I had to borrow this one for the first time.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_05: Just after the episode on dumb things, people have done a goofball.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_05: The Bopsy twins.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_06: Another radically revolutionary resource.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_06: This podcast is Ratchet.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_06: The tracked sample pack.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_06: Mark, lovely.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_05: Ooh, I like the sound of that.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: Ray, you came up with the brilliant idea of putting these in a um uh in a box instead of a bag.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_05: I had to get my knife out to open it because it's uh got tape on it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_05: But it's not going back to it.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Could we could we take that out of the we can't?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_05: We won't.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, there we go.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the track sample back, friends.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_05: Look at all these.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_05: If you could see all these tracks.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what we should do?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Go back to the butterfly.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when people open that, the butterfly comes out of the track sample.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_05: We seriously should.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: I want to oh look, I'll look it up.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_05: Turn your watch around.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_05: I knew it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_05: I knew it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's what Ray does to remember things.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, friends, listen, listen, listen.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_05: We want you.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_05: That's a great idea.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_05: What are you doing?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_05: Is he talking this far?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_05: That's such a great idea to put the butterfly in the side.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, no.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna get sued for heart attacks, there's no question.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we gave the atheist um Satanist a heart attack, remember?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_05: What was the end of Ray Comfort?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_05: Butterflies in boxes and a giant dinosaur roaring at people.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just so people know, it's a a little plastic butterfly that you wind up with a rubber band, and when you put it in a book or something, something like Mr.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Book, it flies out about three feet into the air.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: It sits brilliant.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_05: Great heart.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_05: It was invented by someone in France or something.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was Mr.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Butterfly!
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and uh that dinosaur reference was too the large dinosaur head in our store.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks to Ken Ham.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_05: That roars and blows air at people.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I just so love the skunk.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I look at the skunk, I think of a can.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can the skunk.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: For those who don't know, our office has this constant tug of war where Easy wants it to look clean and professional, and Ray wants it to look like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: Or Pee-wee's Playhouse.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: Disney, Disney area.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_05: But we made a compromise.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_05: I said, Ray, you can have the store area.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've held back.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_05: That's where he has his fun.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_05: He's got the dummies in there, the dinosaur, the He's got the dummies upstairs, too.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the snakes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great one for women to scream.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: So, friends, listen, we want you to evangelize.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_05: That is the vision of our ministry.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: So check out the track sample pack if you've never done it and see which tracks you like and give them out.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_05: It contains uh one of each of the tracks we carry.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_05: You get 350 total uh in there, I think.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um no, that's for another one.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: Whatever.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_05: All right, friends.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_05: Uh today we're talking about the dangers of denying original sin.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we thought it'd be good to hit on this because, guys, this is becoming more of a popular trend lately.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_05: It truly is.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_05: It really is.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: And uh and so we need to deal with it because it's an important biblical doctrine.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_05: And I wanted first of all to give us a definition.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_05: What is original sin?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_05: I like this one that I found online here.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_05: Original sin is the biblical doctrine that because of Adam's first act of disobedience, all human beings are born with a sinful nature, are spiritually separated from God, and stand under the guilt and consequences of Adam's sin, making every person incapable of saving himself and in need of God's grace through Jesus Christ.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_05: That's the key at the end, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes people latch on to things and they act as if though, like that's the end all and be all, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_05: Man is born with original sin.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_05: Period.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_05: No, the good news is that he can be saved and redeemed and transformed.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_05: So Oscar, you squawked.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_05: So why don't you kick us off?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: Squawked, huh?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_05: This is uh becoming more of a popular trend.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_05: Why is it so important that we discuss this and get it right?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is uh just to reemphasize what you just said, uh Leonier's did a survey a couple years ago.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: 64% of American evangelicals say everyone is born innocent.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's just in God's eyes.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_04: 64% of American evangelicals.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: 53% of American evangelicals say sin.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh they sin a little, but are basically good in nature.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, it is super important.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think before we get into the importance of it, I'd love to sort of trace how we got here.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_04: Because uh you drove here, you did, yeah, it's true.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh no, you didn't.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: Your car drove you here.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Oh.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, sorry, sorry.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: This is where life feed millions of views.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh okay, so 5th century Pelagius comes along and denies the idea of original sin.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: He he basically argues that human nature is basically good, that sin is imitation and bad habits.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and of course, Augustine proof of original sin.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_04: Augustine argues against, he ends up becoming a heretic.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: Even Eastern Orthodoxy, though they have a different view of original sin, recognizes uh Pelagius as a heretic.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, one of the things that's very interesting is in Alan Jacob's book, Original Sin or Cultural History, he argues that Pelagianism sounds like encouragement, you can do it.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: But he says, this is me quoting him, it immediately produces the terrifying question, Am I doing it?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: A creed for heroes.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're free to obey at every moment, you're equally free to fall at every moment, and nothing you've built will protect you.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so it starts with Pelagius, um, but it basically dies with Pelagius.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then John Locke comes around in the 1600s.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: And John Locke has this new enlightened way of viewing the world.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: And you might think, what do these French atheist philosophers have to do with the way I think about the world?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: Apparently, a lot.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: John Locke would say that the mind starts out blank, that character is developed through experience.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Rousseau comes along in the 1700s and he says essentially that man's state starts out innocent.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's society, property, and comparison that corrupts him.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: Marx then follows Rousseau and he says that there's no such thing as human essence.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_04: We are essentially an ensemble of social relations, meaning there is no nature to be fallen.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: Then Freud talks about guilt as neurosis.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: Basically, to call yourself as sinful is to recognize that you are sick, and he says that we need to start ta stop talking about guilt and shame in that kind of a way.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: That leads to the self-esteem movement in the 1980s moving forward to where we have this new mindset that talking about yourself as fallen or sinful is to talk about yourself as being sick.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: And instead, we have this, you know, this knee-jerk response where where we give unearned praise, where people's actions is not really their fault, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like we we build entire social structures this way now where we say, well, look, that person is sinning, but it's because they grew up in poverty, they had a fatherless home, they, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's the parents' fault.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's always an external issue.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: That's the key here.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: The movement went from sin is recognized as starting, it's Genesis is in the heart of man because of the fall.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Where now we believe that sin, Genesis is social structures around us.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: And if we fix the social structure, then man will stop sinning.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_04: But of course, this is constantly, this narrative has constantly failed.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I would say one of the first key indicators is social structures aren't constructed out of nowhere.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: Social structures are created by man.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: And so social structures being a failure is simply a representation of the failure that starts in the heart of man.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_04: What we need is a new structure of heart, which is given to us by God and God alone.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well upon that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I I think there is within man, again, this tendency to want to lean toward his own understanding, his own construction of his own reality that puts him at the center of it as a hero of it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, one of the things I remind people, Mark, you and I were just at Huntington again the other night, and and you know, I was trying to remind one of the people that came up to the mic that listen, it's simple.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_05: With God, when you deny your guilty, not only do you remain guilty, it's you know, like when you said to the young man who saying, Well, but I don't believe this or that, and he says you stand on the middle of the road, as Ray shared often, you say, I don't believe in Mac trucks, it doesn't make a difference.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_05: But but to remind them that with God, when you deny you're guilty, not only do you remain guilty, but you incur greater guilt.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_05: Ray, you often refer to this because when we say we don't sin it, we're calling God a liar.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: He that yeah, he that believes not God has made him a liar.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: To me, uh, it's I just can't reconcile or anyone could deny original sin.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at scripture, as well, one man sinned into the world and death by sin, so death passed on all men because all of sin.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got a um a temptation to say it's not fair.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I didn't ask for this, I received a sinful nature.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot help but love sin right from my quote birth, as scripture says.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've drunk iniquity like water and I had no choice.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And Paul deals with this in Romans 5, where he says, Oh, yeah, but we're sin abound, and grace did much more abound.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Look what God did to get us out of this mess.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in a sinking ship, and God offers us a lifeboat, so don't sink with a ship with your fist held up at God, because you can't even get away with it in man's court.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Judge, uh I I did it because I was born with a sinful nature.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's great, you're going to jail.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we don't get rid of our guilt by blaming God.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: We were born like this, can't it?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_05: Sinners by nature, sinners by choice.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_05: Uh Romans 5 12, again, which you recited.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_05: Therefore, just as through one man's sin entered the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because all sinned.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, Romans 5 18 to 19.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_05: Therefore, as through one man's offense, judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: Even so, through one man's righteous act, the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_05: For as by one man's disobedience, many were made sinners.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_05: So also by one man's obedience.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: Obedience, many will be made righteous.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if if our problem was merely just bad behavior, well then we just need better morals.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But because we were born with a sinful nature, we need a new heart.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Think of uh consider this, what David says in Psalm 51.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's he's not blaming his mother, right?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: But but he's he's diagnosing a problem.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something that we we need to recognize as well.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine you go in to see a doctor and you're having some chest problems, and he doesn't tell you the truth.
• 23:44
  unknown: Right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: He just says, you know, it's you know, slight problem, take a couple Tylenol to go away.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's getting worse.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Take more Tylenol, right?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, listen, headaches and pain are not caused from a lack of Tylenol.
• 23:56
  unknown: Right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I remember going to a chiropractor one time and seeing a sign on the wall that said that uh your pain does not cause, your headache is not caused from a lack of Tylenol.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: But we we need to deal with the issue.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get to the heart of the problem.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have adopted the nature of Adam, but people stop there and we don't need to stop there.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: We can have now our sinful nature given to Christ and His righteousness given to us, imputed to us.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a triple, a triple imputation, right?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: We have the sinful nature given to us from Adam.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: We can give our sinful nature to Christ, and Christ can give his righteousness to us.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good news.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: We need to need not stop.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is not bad news that you were born with a sinful nature.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what people tend to do, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: They want to raise their fist at God.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is the toy manufacturer's fault.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: The toy, I'm like this because the manufacturer made me like this.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I sin because God made me like this.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have a propensity towards sin, so it's therefore it's his fault.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we have it all twisted and backwards.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we stop.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to stop doing that and we go back to where we need to be.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: We need a new heart.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: We need to become a new creature, a new creation in Christ.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think now's a good time to provide some clarification too.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, I just know I'm sure you guys as well, and in your discipleship conversations and relationships, often Christians will have a misunderstanding of what this is as well.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_04: And original sin usually leads to the phrase total depravity.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: And total depravity is a helpful phrase, but it can also be a little bit confusing at times.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so usually what I hear from even Christians, well-meaning Christians, is like, well, totally depraved means like we, it makes it sound like we're the worst we can possibly be.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: But total depravity is not a comment on um on degree, it's a comment on extent.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: In other words, total depravity is not saying we are as bad as humanly possible.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_04: Of course not.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_04: The the non-believing atheist is capable of being a good dad.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_04: He's capable of being a good neighbor.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: We have common grace, we have the cape capacity to do some good.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh what total depravity is, is it tells us that every part of us is marked by sin.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: Our this is reform language, our mind, our will, our affections, our body, and our motive.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's total not utter.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's total not absolute.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_04: As one person said, we are not as bad as we could be, but we are as bad off as we could be.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Sproul actually stopped using, in his time, he stopped using total depravity.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: He preferred radical corruption.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: And then I know other guys now use pervasive depravity.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: So here's the phrase that I use to kind of help my friends along.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: I say that we are not maximally sinful, but every part of us is marked by sin.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the first point of clarification that I think is important.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: The second point of clarification is that sin is not just a passive stain, it's also a bondage.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: So John 8, 34, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: 1 John 3 4, sin isn't only breaking the law, sin is itself lawlessness.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: Psalm 51, you already mentioned it, that we are uh sinful from our mother's womb, right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: Psalm 58, the wicked go astray from birth.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: In other words, to have sinned once is to have come under the power of sin.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: So it's important to recognize depravity is not completely and utterly incapable of good, but it's also not just participating in evil, it's being in bondage to that evil.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_05: I I think it might have been R.C.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_05: Sproul that talked about sin's capacity, right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_05: Not always fully manifested maximally in terms of what's possible, but it at its heart, it has that capacity for radical rebellion against God.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_05: Uh and I think he's the one that gives the illustration of like babies.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_05: The only reason why babies don't kill people is because they don't have the strength.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_05: That is him.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: Oh man.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: Like I remember when I first heard that, I'm like, wow.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_05: Like when you see a baby's rage, ha ha ha, you know, if it had the strength and cap capacity, it would probably kill you.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Just giving a newsie.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think one of the times I've heard him say, he says, like, give a baby the knife.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_04: And the only reason why it can't kill you because it has the the strength yet to plunge it through.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right, exactly.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and and when you when you see that, you know, like I I a video came across my feed recently where uh all these people started to attack this guy.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_05: And man, it was so animalistic.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, you know, bulls, if a bull is injured, all the bulls will begin to gore it to death.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_05: It's just it's crazy to see that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_05: And yet human beings and their fallen sinful nature do the craziest things.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: The other deception I I would say in relation to sin, just speaking of sin itself, is this concept that it's egregious because it seems so preposterous and far-fetched and and and big, right?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_05: But again, never forget, and I've shared this before a man and a woman eating a piece of forbidden fruit in a garden thousands of years ago, and here we are, four thousand of years with wickedness and corruption and disease and and death and and and vileness.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_05: It shows that God is so holy that the slightest infraction in relation to his standards is serious in a sight.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Deadly serious.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_05: And and so, Mark, why why is it important that we get this right?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: How does this spill over into other areas of life if we don't understand original sin?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think when you begin to deny original sin, you begin to minimize the greatness of grace.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because if if once again, if we just need modified behavior, then Jesus becomes kind of like a life coach instead of a savior, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: So what is grace?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about grace being God's unmerited favor to the infinitely ill-deserving.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you're kind of basically good or half good, or your good is just a little slightly lower than your uh bad, or vice versa.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then you're gonna begin to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and you're gonna be thinking grace.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't need grace, right?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: It it becomes cultish, right?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's what is it like the Mormon verse?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was in Second Nephi that you're saved by grace after all that you can do, that that God actually needs your cooperation in order to do some saving here.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it minimizes minimizes God's grace.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: When God's grace is against the backdrop of a pure black, you know, velvet, it's gonna be all the more beautiful.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: He who's forgiven much loves much.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And when you pause and you think through all that you've done, and that's a good thing to do.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: It really is, it's a good thing.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right, write it down.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I remember Microsoft Word when it kind of first came out, or when I first began to use it like 30 years ago or so, 35 years ago, uh, you had the option, you begin to write, and as you're writing, as you're typing, it would say, Would you like to save this document?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't do it anymore, right?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: But would you like to save this document?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say no.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what I would do is I would start writing out all my sins.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And as I began to write out all the sins that I could possibly remember, and I would go into great detail and I would begin to weep over it, and I'd just begin to look at it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_05: And then my memory was on that computer to say something like that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember hitting uh uh Command A, right, where you highlight everything.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'd I'd grab a hold of it and then I would change the font color from black to red, which was just kind of reminiscent of the blood of Christ washing over all of that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would hit delete, and then it would say, Would you like to save this document?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: To which I would say, No, I don't want to save it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now as soon as I delete it, it's gone.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no possible way for me to bring it back.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: You missed it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is a computer game for Christians.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: A computer game for Christians, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: But but that's kind of the way it is.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: As far as the East is from the West, he's removed our sins from us.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And as Corey Tin Boom said, he posts his sign, no fishing allowed.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Mark, what you didn't know is uh about the retrieval service that we uh hired.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_05: That was the thing, right?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like though I'm utterly embarrassed about the things that I've done, I'm not hiding from them anymore.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's I I remember somebody they somebody brought, I did something apparently wrong, and and this person wanted to tell a lot of people what I'd done wrong.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, listen, when you're when you're done.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what was it?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I crossed a double yellow line in a carpool.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so he wanted to, he wanted people to know this.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, look, bro, if that's what you got on me.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: When you're done, listen, I'll give you great ammunition against me, you know, because things that I was absolutely embarrassed about and ashamed of, and I am, I'm embarrassed and ashamed of it, but it's like it is what it is, and Christ has saved me.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: He can save you too, no matter what you've done.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I've blown it in terrible, reckless, intentional ways.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: My God is bigger, my redeemer is bigger than my past.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, this is one of the greatest benefits of doing what we've often talked about on the podcast, and that's preaching the gospel to yourself.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: What you just conveyed right there, Mark, is gospel truth.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_05: Like that, that's one of the places where the gospel has its greatest impact, where we remember our sin and then remember it's gone.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I feel like I can't quote anybody anymore, right?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's you know everybody does something wrong.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you start quoting somebody, now you're in their camp.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, there's a negative comment on our podcast here because I quoted somebody, right?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Which is absolutely insane.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just quote did me.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: It was our first not five star.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Remember how upset Easy was Yeah, I saw I quoted a guy, but I'm gonna do that again here, and it's gonna upset some people, CJ Mahaney.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: He said he starts off every one of his mornings with looking in the mirror and he preaches the gospel to himself.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: What what a valuable tool to continually go back to the place where we came from and we think about what Christ has done in my life in the past.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if he's gonna do that in the past, of course he's gonna forgive me for what I've done in the present and on into the future.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Does he preach it to his neighbor as well?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or just to do it?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or just to himself.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier when you just do it to yourself.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I saw what did we see?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: A little missionary thing where a guy went overseas to become a missionary so he could avoid talking to the next one.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_05: That's not far from reality.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I think.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_05: Seriously.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_05: I think I think that is done.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_05: Um, Ray, look, you're one of those people that blows me away in terms of how you got a hold of something and you've never even slightly let it go.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm talking about the use of the law as a schoolmaster.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_05: We're talking about sin here, original sin.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_05: And and I've just never seen you waver in that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_05: I've never seen you lose your passion and what I would call your calling and that corrective that the Lord has helped you to bring to the church.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_05: But but speak to that, Ray.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_05: How important is the law in the center of this whole discussion?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not really that important.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_05: I don't care.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_05: Anything.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, yesterday I lost my passion for it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_05: Just yesterday.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_04: Ministry is changing.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, denying original sin lays a foundation for self-righteousness.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: It just opens a highway for self-righteousness to come through as a vehicle.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what's happened within society.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you deny the fact that you've got original sin, then you'll think that self-righteousness can save you.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I take strong consolation in the original sin that's in my members, because I can't help but be drawn to sin like uh the magnet goes to the north.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I look at Romans 7, and I know there's controversy over Romans 7, was it pre-or post-Paul's conversion, but I get consolation to know that's exactly where I am, where I just say, Oh, wretched man, who will free me from this body of death?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have that propensity to sin.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the answer to self-righteousness, the slayer of self-righteousness, is the law.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: It brings the knowledge of sin, it puts the fear of God on people.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so often I see it happen where someone just did a video the other day where a guy said, Do you think there's an afterlife?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: He says, Yeah, heaven and hell, yeah.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you going to hell?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way I could go into hell.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Three minutes later, he says, I'm going to hell because the law did its duty.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: It just disturbed the conscience.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_04: So the law on evangelism is so boomer.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_05: No, you know, honestly, Ray, my theory is one of the reasons why you're still so passionate about it, not only obviously because it's biblical and scriptural, but because you've seen it work time and time again.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: You've seen the effects of the law.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, you know, you're out sharing the gospel every single day, Monday through Friday, twice at the local college.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_05: You're going to Huntington on Saturdays, you're going to a local park on Sunday.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_05: And again, you're pulling out that schoolmaster and you're letting it do its work.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_05: And that's it's, and we have to remember, right?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_05: It's its primary role is to be that mirror.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_05: You're showing people what's already true about themselves.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_05: The law isn't creating sin in them, it's revealing what's there.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And oh Jeremiah 17, 9.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: The heart is to see what we go into some incidental meditation.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Our heart uh is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then it says an amazing phrase who can know it.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds rhetorical.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Who can know?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, who could understand the depths of depravity within the human heart?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Next verse tells us I the Lord search the heart, test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we open up the law, we show sinners that God is watching everything they do.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've often said to sinners, before I start, I said, God sees every thought you ever had.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: He knows how many hairs on your head.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: How does that make you feel?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: They say, Really good.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, let's see if we can change that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: When did you last look at pornography?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think God feels about that?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not good.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then suddenly they reveal, they get revealed that God's wrath abides on them and they need a savior.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so often, and it's just so grievous where you hear Christians testify, I gave my heart to Jesus, things are going great.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, Jesus came to save us from wrath.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we've forgotten that.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's the reason he came to save us from God's law that'll have justice right down to the heart on that great and terrible day of the Lord.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I like to put it this way.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, my realization of my depravity and my sinful heart scares me to God.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_05: It terrifies me.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_05: Like there are times when you know, crazy wicked thoughts will just fly into my mind.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_05: Like what?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_05: One by one.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_05: They terrify me.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: They, I'm like, I'm lost without the Lord.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_05: I'm totally undone.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_05: I don't care what people think about what they're capable of or not.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_05: When I when these things come into mind, I'm just like, and I it makes me run to the Lord.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_05: You guys have heard me quote what I written years ago.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_05: When I asked the Lord to give me more of him and less of me, he shows me more of me, which makes me want less of me and more of him.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_05: He just pulls back the veil.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, Lord, I want nothing to do with me.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_05: Because if I'm separated from you, um I'm I'm destroyed.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can kind of see where you're at on the spectrum when you hear of a preacher that's fallen into sexual sin, and you begin to think, I can't believe he did that.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm surprised to hear that he had, you know, that would never happen to me.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: We hear people say things like that, and we fail to recognize the depravity of the heart, the inability of man and the ability of man to do anything that comes their way.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oscar.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: It uh it also original sin, total depravity, it prevents us from sliding into legalism.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because if sin goes all the way down, then grace needs to go all the way down too.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's not about how good I become.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: And going back to Romans 7, um, I don't know, I think the controversy is dead for the most part.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: But in case there are some who are curious about it, yeah, I mean, I think most respected theologians understand Paul's words post-salvation.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so how does that play out?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's not that Paul increased in sin, it's that he increased in his understanding of his need for grace.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: That that's the process of sanctification.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's not that you start sinning less, though that's a byproduct.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: The real process of sanctification is growing deeper in your understanding of your dependence on the grace of God, because it's important to remember that it is the grace of the God that saves you, but it is also the grace of God that keeps you.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what Paul is unpacking there in Romans 7.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: And friends, let me just say in in relation to this sin and anything, it always comes back to authority.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_05: And and that's that's one of my favorite things to do when I'm sharing the gospel with someone and they start to pontificate on what they think.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_05: And I just asked them that simple question.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_05: Mark, you you do it all the time.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_05: We've all done it.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, where do you get that from?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_05: I I've I've rarely ever seen anything stop someone in their tracks quicker than that.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_05: Where do you get that from?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_05: What what what do you base that on?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_05: And seriously, it's like, um uh never thought about it.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, I don't know.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_05: And then ultimately it comes back to it's just it's just what I think.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_05: So you've just now become your own authority.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_05: Right, right.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_05: You who can oftentimes not even control your own hiccups, you who can't control your cardiovascular functions, you who can't stop the hair growing or falling on your head.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_05: Blinking and yawning.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you are the authority snoring.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I love what sounded hard.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't me.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't me though.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_05: I love what Gary Burge said.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_05: He said, when we interpret scripture by focusing on our inner voice, we risk losing the original voice of scripture, the historic anchor that has given the church its foundation and faith, and the uniqueness of a moment of historical revelation without parallel to anything we can experience.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_05: And evaluating our own experience risks confusing what is subjectively true for me with what is objectively true.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_05: Truth does not reside in my own temporal experience, but rather in the correct interpretation of the scriptures.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_05: And that's key because people will throw that out.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_05: That's your interpretation.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and you just point to concrete things that are unmistakable that people know.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_05: And I love I love doing that.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_05: I saw it done before, like where do you tell someone if you gave your children this specific instruction, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_05: Don't open the pantry door and don't eat anything in the pantry.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_05: And you come back and the pantry door is open and everything in the pantry is eaten.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's why you should put rat poison in the pantry.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_05: What did what did I right?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_05: What did I tell you before I left the house?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_05: Well, my interpretation of it was, and that's what people do.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_05: No, that's unmistakable, right?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_05: And so there are things that are clear in scripture, right?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_05: And so we need to we need to understand that and keep that in mind.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_05: So, Oscar, someone says, Well, look, um I I I don't think that I am really as sinful as you think I am based on your Christian views.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um that's your interpretation.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_05: How would you counter that?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_05: Because that's what we get oftentimes when we're out on the streets and we're encountering people and we're trying to share with them that they're sinners.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I still, and you'll go there, Ray.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_05: You still think you're gonna go to heaven even after you tape through?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_05: How do you how do you counter that?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I usually say, I bet you don't even live up to your own standards.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'll say, for example, do you like it when someone lies to you?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_04: No, I don't like it when someone lies to me.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever lied to someone else?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, I have.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, if and so you I'm I'm using God's Ten Commandments, obviously, but I'm starting with their own standards to show them you don't even live up to your own standards.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_04: And if that is your standards, how much greater is the standards of God?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's sort of a starting place to build up to the reality that not only have they fallen short of their own moral laws that they have when someone else sins against them, but that that moral law is actually pointing towards the great law of God and his character.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: So that that would be my starting point.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think when someone comes to you and says, I don't think you should stop the And say, I think you've just spoken the truth.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of do something similar with uh God's giving you a brain.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, ask an atheist, did God give you a brain?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's just move on.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_04: I was uh I was trying to look something up um on my Thesaurus app, but it's blank.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_04: I've got no words to describe what's happening.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_05: That's just sick.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know, I um I I found that one of the things that oftentimes trips Christians up is when someone will say, The church is full of hypocrites.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_05: You guys are just a bunch of hypocrites full of hypocrisy.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I found that there's such a quick way to diffuse that.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_05: And just to ask them some questions, like what do you think of people lying to you?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_05: What do you think of people that you know steal from you?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_05: What do you think of, you know, and on it, and oh, that's horrible, terrible.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_05: Have you ever done any of those things?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_05: And immediately in one fell swoop, you demonstrate to them they're a hypocrite.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_05: And and so you reveal to them, hey, we're all in the same boat, right?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_05: Except that you're you're holding others to a higher standard than you are willing to hold yourself.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Which is Romans 2.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Quote that, right?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um you who um the other people and do the same things, do you think you'll escape the judgment of God?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which will be according to righteousness, or deal to every man according to his sins, and to them by patience and well doing eternal life.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: But those who continue in sin, wrath and judgment.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's uh people say the goodness of God leads us to repentance.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I say, yeah, yeah.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: But look at that scripture in context and it's sandwiched in wrath.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Each side speaks of God's wrath, and it's his goodness that leads us to repentance in the midst of that wrath.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and and you know, this this brings about kind of I think man's attempts to call God unfair, right?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_05: What are you guys doing?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna sneeze and I'm trying to hold it back, and it went away.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_05: There it is.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_05: What a bitch.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_05: You know what, Mark, with all the footage we have of Ray hitting you, you could probably sue for me.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Can we bring human resources?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mark's getting excited.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: My defense would be I can't reach.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm back in the will.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can't reach.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but but you know, I was talking about man's propensity to want to um, you know, call God unfair.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_05: How how how come that happens?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_05: And Mark, this happened with us, in fact, recently at Huntington Beach, where this young man came out and said, Well, why does it seem like some people just have unfair circumstances in life?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_05: You know, they they just go through tough things or have bad circumstances or whatever.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_05: And I gave him a scenario, kind of came to mind on the spot.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_05: I said, Hey, what what if um there was this guy who went out and murdered a bunch of people, raped a bunch of women, stole a bunch of things, uh, vandalized all, and I just went on and on with all these examples.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, and that guy was caught, and he was brought in front of a judge, and let's say it's in some country where the punishment for the crime is that he's gonna go to prison for life and be tormented every single day for the rest of his life.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_05: And then they come and they say, you know what?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_05: Actually, instead of that, we're gonna send you off to an uh to kind of this remote area where there's no electricity and there's no running water, you're gonna kind of live in a village with a hut and Australia.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: Can fish for your own.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_05: He didn't say New Zealand.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, good for you.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_05: But you can fish for your own food, you know, you you can have a family, you can build a hut to live in, you you know, you have uh decent weather.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna give you that instead.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_05: I and I said to him, how how what would you think of that guy's circumstances?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_05: And he goes, Oh, that's actually pretty good.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, That's exactly what the case is.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_05: Like all of us, because of our sinfulness, should be in hell right now at this very moment for all eternity, and we're not.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_05: So the guy who's struggling, the guy who's going through pain, the guy, all of that is in reality an undeserved blessing.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I saw the light bulb go on for him.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh, you know, and so it's important to remember that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_05: Like when we start pointing our fingers at God, we are utterly sinfully depraved people.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, oh, you point at Ray, Mark.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_05: The things that people don't see that happens to the big thing.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a light bulb you can get that comes on when you your ring touches it.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_05: When your ring touches it?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can it's a light bulb and you and your ring touches it, it connects the circuit, and the bulb comes on.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be a great illustration for someone when you're witnessing.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_05: Ah, is that how magicians do it?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's how it's done.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's got nothing to do with anything.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Move on.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_05: Oddicate.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so look, we we talked about the fact that if we avoid the reality of depress of original sin, we're lightening the grace of God.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_05: That's right.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_05: We're we're minimizing it because of what we're doing with what is the reality and and who we really are.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_05: But at the same time, I think that there are those listening right now who are very well aware of their depravity.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, Ray, once in a while we do come across someone who surprises us, right?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_05: You're you're taking them through the law.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_05: They're almost interrupting you.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: We had a montage of people weeping.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: Did you just see it in Hell's Best Kept Secret?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: I grabbed a whole stack and put them together, and boy, it was moving.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: You saw it, did you?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's in Hell's Best Kept Secret?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: The new one.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the new one, yes.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: We showed it at the Ark, and I found that very moving.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something we don't see enough of.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to explain to people that see all those people weeping over their sins, say, this is not normal, but it should be.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_05: So so Mark, we we get that at times, and I I have no doubt that there are those listening, and their problem is the opposite problem.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_05: They're well aware of not only their original sin, but they're well aware of their constant sin of choice and their violation of God's standards.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_05: And their problem is condemnation.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_05: Their problem is, but man, I I just, you know, I don't know how the Lord can forgive me.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just so utterly sinful.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_05: What would you say to that person?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Christianity, which is the only worldview that has grace uh explained properly, right?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew Henry said, you are at the closest moment of receiving God's grace, mercy, and forgiveness when you begin to realize that you cannot do anything correct.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do anything right.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: No welcome.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: Grace, right?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: God's riches at Christ's expense.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is grace, right?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: The unmerited favor to the infinitely ill deserving.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Grace is God giving you exactly what you don't deserve.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's the exact opposite of what you deserve.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: You deserve justice, punishment, and hell forever.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And God comes along and says, No, I'm gonna give you the hope of heaven and fellowship with me now.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's the exact opposite, right?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense because inside of the world in which we live, we do not work within a grace payment system.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: We go to work, we expect a paycheck.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: If the paycheck is not uh what I worked for, well, then I'm going to complain.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if I work enough hours and enough days, I'm expecting a raise.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way it works.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not with God.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: God is the exact opposite.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: The paradox that exists there is it's absolutely amazing and it's mind-boggling, but you have to come to that place because we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that nobody can boast.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, here we have within the word of God inside of Genesis chapter three, we do not have man seeking after God, but we have God seeking after man.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: And when God said, Adam, where are you?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't say it because he didn't know where he was at.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: He said it so that Adam can know where he's at.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Adam, where are you?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not because he was confused.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Adam, I want to see what you have done.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to see where your sin has brought you.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: And once you realize that your sin has brought you to a precipice of destruction and damnation, now look up for where our redemption draws.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself inside of that place, I've heard Ray share the gospel without going through the law.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's rare, but I remember him doing it in Texas, inside of an airport, with a soldier who was about ready to go off to the military, off to war, wherever he was going, dressed in his camos.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And as Ray was going through, started to go through the law with him, the guy was recognizing where he stood positionally before God.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: And Ray went into grace and he unleashed grace in such a beautiful way that I was absolutely blown away.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's what the gospel does.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: It opens people's eyes.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: People act as if we have a love affair with the law of God.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: We don't, but the law is necessary to pave the way for grace, mercy, and forgiveness.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself teetering back and forth, you're at a razor's edge, and you're saying, I'm hopeless, I'm helpless, I'm despairing of life.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, Christ is the life.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're confused, he's the truth, right?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: You find yourself wandering in the midst of darkness and the situation where you're at because of self-inflicted sin, he is the light.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be uh uh be brought back to life.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's the resurrection and the life.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: And he's saying, Come to me.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't matter what you've done, it doesn't matter who's made your bed, what drugs you've taken, whose lies you've wrecked, Christ is enough and he is sufficient to grab a hold of you and put your feet on solid rock because he is the rock, he is our ultimate foundation.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so that will happen through that cognizant recognition.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: I deserve hell.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's what the commandments do.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: But God, who is rich in mercy, who is rich in grace, but God who is love, but God who desires for no man to perish, but for all to come to repentance, come to your senses, and he'll give you that free gift, which is everlasting life.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself in that position, you're one breath away from getting right with God, and you're one breath away from eternity.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Every decision we make, it balances on a razor's edge, somebody once said.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to make that right decision to surrender your life and to come clean.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll be forgiven by the only one who can forgive you.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, you've stood me.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: That was wonderful, Mark.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to say is your name written on the Lamb's Book of Life?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is it there?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it there?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_05: Mr.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_05: Whitfield.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_04: So sorry, uh, Mark, could you say all that again?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um man, you know, you you think about that and you consider the fact that we are, as people, oftentimes so easily distracted from that which we had just grasped as true.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like as you say that, that stirs my soul, right?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, in five minutes, I'm gonna be thinking about lunch, right?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_05: Race thinking about it now.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_05: No question.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_05: And and then and then after lunch, I'm being condemned again, you know, because I'm losing sight of that.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_05: Because of what you ate.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let me comment on that because what what you just described is every youth camp in existence.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because the youth, they leave their family, they leave television, they leave their phones, they leave all of the chirping from the crowds, and they enter into a place where they're going to receive what?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: Worship two, three times a day.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're having devots with their cabins, they're receiving hopefully good teaching from the pulpit.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: And now the last day, it's like they're just going, I don't know what to say.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're around the campfire here, and I feel so refreshed and so watered.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's happening is you are now living the life for which God has created you to live in fellowship with that which matters most.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so now what happens?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: They leave summer camp, they leave winter camp, and they they just can't do it anymore.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because now they're drinking the toxic sewage of the world, what they were drinking before they came up to camp.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you expect to survive?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're gonna survive off of a five-minute devotion in the morning before you go into a public high school and you see the craziness that's being taught from the your professors or the endless doom scrolling on your phone.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: You think you're gonna survive off of that when you're not meditating on God's word is truth.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna believe lies are true.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you carry that over?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what you do is what are you doing at summer camp?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're in fellowship with people, you're talking about God, you are in the word, you are forced to memorize scripture and you're playing wholesome games, and you're not trying to kill people through some game on a on a your television, right?
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're you're doing, you're surrounding your things with things that are wholesome and pure and right and trustworthy.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's where our mind is supposed to be.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself going down those wrong routes, doing the things that you shouldn't be doing, well, listen, all throughout the day, be found meditating on God's word.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: All throughout the day, speak to one another in spiritual songs and hymns, making melody in your heart one for another.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is how you do it.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is how we say it's this is how we do it.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: And one little thing to add, share the gospel with unsaved people, because that's why you'll see.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that'll make you grow.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing like being thrown into a swimming pool to teach you how to swim.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can be taught about swimming, but if you go in, you learn to swim.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: And nothing will make you grow like sharing the gospel.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_04: How did we go from our dumb things things podcast episode to this one?
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's great.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_05: We regained our sanity.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_05: Ray, um, you know, I I'd love for you to recount like how you approach someone when they say that man is basically good.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um Well, I know where they're coming from.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're judging themselves by their own standards.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's what the scripture says.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: They go about to establish their own righteousness, being ignorant of the righteousness which is of God.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're in darkness to God's righteousness.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to bring the law.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: When you bring in the law, what you're doing is stirring up an ally right in the heart of the enemy, the conscience, which bears witness with the commandments.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what you do is you have two weapons that are gonna suddenly kick in.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be on your side.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna be you trying to give it to someone that God exists.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be someone against the wall, conscience accusing them, and God's law coming down heavy upon them and showing them they need a savior.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: So all you do is say, I'm gonna change the dynamic.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna address your intellect anymore.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go to your conscience.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are you okay with that?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: And often they'll say, almost always, yeah, go for it, because they don't feel threatened.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, let's see if you're a good person, how many lies have you told?
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I've said this like a million times, and that's not hyperbole.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it it's always bringing light.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: The commandment is a lamp and the law is light.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're in darkness, so you bring the light of the law and show them their true state before God, and that shows them when it's combined with wrath that's to come.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Law without consequence, someone once said, is nothing but good advice.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you say to someone, you've broken the Ten Commandments, and you leave out that God has appointed a damn which will judge the world on righteousness, all you're doing is giving them good advice.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's wrong to commit adultery.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: That destroys marriages, it's wrong to steal, that destroys relationships, it's wrong to lie.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's just good advice.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to bring in the wrath of God because you must repent, because God has appointed a damn which will judge the world on righteousness.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's only when they'll flee from the wrath that's to come.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't preach there's wrath to come, they won't flee to the cross.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's essential to open up the law, to preach judgment day, the authority of scripture, and the judgment of God upon sin.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's when they'll see what that's when the cross will make sense.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_05: So well put.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, one of the things I I've often heard you say to people who talk about how man is basically good is hey, why don't you take your wallet out, just put it on the sidewalk?
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'd made note to say that.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Walk away.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: So let's do it.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it now.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Put your wallet there, you go for a walk, and I'll just walk along here and we'll see if it's there in ten minutes.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it's not gonna happen.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_05: And and that's the thing, right?
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_05: Like we we talk about this all the time.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_05: People have all kinds of theories, philosophies, theologies, but but they never really live them out.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_05: Those ones that that are just unreal and not true.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_05: They don't they don't comport with what they claim to believe.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_05: That's that's not the way they live out.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_05: Leave it there.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, right.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, what a great discussion, you guys.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_05: Mark's good heart.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_05: What a great discussion, the friends.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_05: We hope you've been encouraged, educated, inspired.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you got Ray's money there.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_05: Ray, you still use that wallet?
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, oh yeah, of course.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not my wallet.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, tell me.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be shipped back to New Zealand.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: Give it to me.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_06: There you go.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_06: Don't forget, friends, listen to it again.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_06: The tracked sample pack.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_06: Don't forget to like, subscribe, share.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, and don't forget the brand new Living Waters mug from which we love the chug.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_05: It's got great uh caricatures of Ray Mark, Oscar, and myself, and the Living Waters podcast logo and some great artwork.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_05: So please Four Fives get it.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_05: Like Drivers License.
• 1:02:57
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• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_05: And uh listen, when you get the mug, that helps support the podcast.
• 1:03:02
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• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, don't forget to like, subscribe, share all at podcast LivingWanders.com.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_05: We want your questions so we can answer them.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_05: These guys are gone, they're lost.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for giving us friends.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_06: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast, where we have no idea what we're doing.