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This is How You Communicate With Impact · Speaking of Meaning

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Speaking of Meaning,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: the podcast that helps you become a stronger communicator,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: build deeper relationships,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: and create impact that matters.
• 0:13
  I'm your host,
• 0:14
  Ibrahim,
• 0:15
  and I am a professional speaker,
• 0:17
  soccer referee,
• 0:18
  and leader.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love helping other people, and I also love to learn new things.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is about better communication,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: greater impact at work,
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: in your home,
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: and in the world out there.
• 0:32
  Don't forget to leave us a review and share this episode with a
• 0:36
  friend or somebody
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: you care about.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Today, we are joined by my good friend, Neil Greenspan.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Neil, welcome to the show.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Ibrahim.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to be here.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited for this conversation.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to have you here.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually very, very excited.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just a good friend.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're also a communications expert and you have helped companies.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've helped people grow.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: You are an expert in this area.
• 1:17
  And so I'm very excited to get to know you more and also
• 1:23
  excited for our listeners
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: to learn more about communication and impact.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, sounds good.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully your listeners can get some value from what I'm going to say.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they will.
• 1:39
  And when I started this podcast,
• 1:41
  Neil,
• 1:41
  I don't think I've told you about this.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: When I started this podcast,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: There was one thing I thought about, and that was my list of guests.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Who should I invite to the show?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was brainstorming and I had many, many names on that list.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there was one name on top of that list.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that was your name.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm honored.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not just an expert, you're also a good friend.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I started this podcast,
• 2:16
  the reason why I have grown so much as a speaker is because of
• 2:21
  the people I have
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: around me.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you are one of those people.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's lesson number one already.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if you meant to do that, right?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody does it alone.
• 2:31
  Having a good support group,
• 2:33
  professional,
• 2:34
  personal,
• 2:34
  mixed,
• 2:35
  it's a good thing.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: They say that we are X percent of the people around us.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the percent is and I don't want to misstate something.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think for different people, the percentage probably is higher or lower.
• 2:49
  But I'm all in that at least a relatively meaningful percentage
• 2:55
  of who we end up
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: being is in direct relation to the people that are around us.
• 3:00
  So I appreciate you saying that I make you better because I
• 3:03
  have no doubt that you
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: make me better as well.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have somebody in your life who has inspired you,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: influenced you when it comes to communication?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's interesting.
• 3:18
  So I think if I go back a little bit and it's the organization
• 3:23
  actually where we
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: met,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: is through Toastmasters.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: if you don't know about Toastmasters,
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: if you're listening and you don't know about Toastmasters,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: you should check it out.
• 3:31
  The name,
• 3:32
  especially where Ibrahim and I live,
• 3:34
  the name doesn't necessarily translate.
• 3:37
  But Toastmasters is an organization that's been around,
• 3:39
  I believe they just passed 100 years.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they're in well over 100 countries around the world.
• 3:46
  And it started to help young men during the difficult economic
• 3:52
  times of the 1920s
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: become better at the skill of public speaking.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it really was kind of a public speaking club, let's call it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it has grown since then.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: at least for me from my time there,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: although my speaking absolutely got better,
• 4:08
  the two skills that grew even more in my time there is was was
• 4:14
  listening and
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: leadership.
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  And you and I met there and you were one of the speakers that
• 4:21
  inspired me because I
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I saw you up on the big stage.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: There are people like Olivia Schofield and John Zimmer up on the stage,
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  SPEAKER_01: who I know are mentors of yours as well,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: who every time they speak,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: it's motivating.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: But more than one person,
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  I think what I found was as an American living in a country now
• 4:41
  where English isn't
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: the main language,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: as good a communicator as I thought I was,
• 4:47
  having other people around me who were inspired to improve
• 4:51
  their communication
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: skills is
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was the community that inspired me, really.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Although there are some individuals absolutely that were amazing.
• 4:59
  I think it was just it was the community and the program and
• 5:02
  the process that
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: really inspired me to become a better speaker,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: which then led to broader communication skills for sure.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you have a business right now and you've helped a lot of businesses.
• 5:19
  a lot of entrepreneurs to become better communicators by
• 5:23
  becoming better speakers
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: and pitching their ideas.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
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  So moving to Sweden as a foreigner,
• 5:34
  it's never been an easy fit in the job market for me here.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm well educated.
• 5:38
  I had really good experience,
• 5:39
  but I never really kind of found my fit here.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I was actually I was at an event that's called Startup Dojo.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And this was where people with ideas,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: whether it was an existing startup or not,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: but people with ideas,
• 5:51
  they would pitch their idea and then they would get feedback
• 5:53
  from the group.
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  SPEAKER_01: And
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: looking for new ways to meet people and again,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: to be inspired and to grow my network.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to this event.
• 6:03
  And as I sat there and I listened to some of them pitch,
• 6:07
  I really didn't understand their ideas.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: You could get the kind of, again, the core, the nucleus of it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you could say, oh, there might be something here.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So my kind of conclusion was,
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: this person is really bright.
• 6:22
  This may be a really good idea,
• 6:24
  but they're really not very good at communicating it.
• 6:27
  And then the light bulb moment,
• 6:29
  the aha moment,
• 6:30
  I said,
• 6:30
  but that's what I'm good at,
• 6:31
  right?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a marketer by trade, my MBA, the focus was in marketing.
• 6:35
  I was in marketing with American Express where basically
• 6:38
  American Express was the
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: most expensive option for everything,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: you name it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we really have to communicate the value
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got very good at being able to do that.
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  And so I started my business and I started it with the worst
• 6:51
  business model in the world.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I tell people all the time.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And this was trying to get startups to pay me to teach them soft skills.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody wanted to do that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, startups don't have money.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Number two,
• 7:03
  the only time they start to think about soft skills is almost
• 7:07
  when it's too late
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: for many of them,
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: to be honest with you.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I very quickly realized that at least in this part of Sweden,
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: while I couldn't necessarily sell directly to the startups,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: there's a really good startup ecosystem that helps them.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  They get funding and they understand the importance of being
• 7:24
  able to pitch.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people also,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe people listening to this podcast,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: when they hear the word pitch,
• 7:30
  they think of investors down on their hands and knees begging
• 7:33
  investors for money,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: right?
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's called an investor pitch.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's one type of pitch.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's an important type of pitch for many startups.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, is that there are other types of pitches.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And through this process, it's grown.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I started this in 2012.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been doing it for more than 13 years now.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I don't have a logbook where I've counted the pitches,
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: it's somewhere around,
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: if I do some simple math,
• 7:58
  somewhere around 4,000 pitches that I've listened to and given
• 8:02
  feedback on.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the one thing I love is part of my passion is helping people.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love helping people.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when I can help a passionate person,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: entrepreneur,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: a passionate founder,
• 8:13
  find their message and help improve their chances of their
• 8:16
  startup succeeding.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for me, to me, there's nothing better than that.
• 8:23
  We will later talk about your business and what pitching is
• 8:28
  about and how we can
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: influence other people without words.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you a question, Neil.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to the basics.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: What does communication mean to you?
• 8:42
  Oh,
• 8:43
  that's an interesting question because I think I think it's so
• 8:45
  broad.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: when they hear communication,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: they automatically jump to speaking,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: which of course is a big part of communication.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: there's that old adage of,
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:58
  we were given one mouth in two years because we should listen
• 9:01
  twice as much as we
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: talk.
• 9:03
  so communication is also about listening and then there is you
• 9:07
  throw in body
• 9:08
  language right and and then when we speak about talking you you
• 9:13
  have um the
• 9:15
  emotions with with with which you're saying the words they can
• 9:19
  have very two
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: different meanings so communication kind of encompasses all of that
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to kind of,
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: when we got into the subject really of communicating,
• 9:32
  I wanted to just go through something because I think people
• 9:35
  will really find this
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: interesting.
• 9:37
  A few years back when I was giving some training on some
• 9:40
  presentation skills,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I found this statistic.
• 9:44
  Albert Merabian did some research that what's the most
• 9:47
  important when we're
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: speaking with people?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And people say,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: now it's misrepresented even the statistics,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: but in what I'm reading right now,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: his research found 55% body language,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: 38% is the tone,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: and only 7% is the words.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that has kind of morphed into this belief that
• 10:09
  that that applies to every time we're communicating and that's
• 10:14
  where the myth
• 10:14
  actually comes in okay the only time and the only research that
• 10:18
  he did on this
• 10:18
  topic was when we were communicating emotions and feelings
• 10:23
  that's when you have
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: that differentiator
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: as far as I know,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: there is no research when let's say you're pitching,
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: which is more about facts.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm not saying that when you're pitching,
• 10:33
  you pitch like this and you're a robot and there's no emotion
• 10:36
  in your pitch.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Of course there is.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not what he's saying.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's saying when I'm communicating emotion to you.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm telling you about a really sad story,
• 10:45
  that's when Merabian's research would come into play in that in
• 10:49
  that the words I'm
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: saying matter much less than my body language and my tone.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: when we're giving presentations and pitches,
• 10:57
  and a pitch is a type of a presentation that generally the
• 11:02
  biggest difference is
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: that it has a request of the listener.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Buy my product.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let's meet to discuss a partnership.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Loan me money, right?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're doing that,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't found any research that shows what the most important part is.
• 11:17
  so when i coach people about that i say let's split it up let's
• 11:21
  split it up into
• 11:22
  thirds it's a third your body language it's a third your tone
• 11:25
  and it's a third the
• 11:26
  words you say now if it's a little bit different each one um i
• 11:31
  don't think that
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: matters that much for example i do believe that if i say something really
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: passionate but it's just nonsense and you don't understand the words
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: that's not effective communication.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I also believe if you say really,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: really cool and very smart sounding words,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: but you're talking like this and you look like this and you don't,
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: that's not gonna go over very well with the audience either.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: We both know about connecting with the audience, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: About being a human being and connecting with the audience.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, all of that kind of encompasses communication.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just about speaking,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: it is your body,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: it is your tone,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: it is listening,
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: it is considering
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: what you're saying, the words you're saying and how you're saying it.
• 12:13
  Another example is that for some reason,
• 12:15
  the word no has gotten a very bad reputation,
• 12:18
  right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: People think when they say no, they're being rude.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of saying no, they avoid the conversation altogether.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's not good communication.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I think you can say no politely, right?
• 12:32
  And I would rather have a,
• 12:33
  sorry,
• 12:34
  I would rather have a polite no than you avoid me.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So this is very interesting.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot to unpack here.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think people struggle to say no?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're afraid of letting others down.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: We say that we're our own worst critic,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: but when it comes to letting people down,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: we're totally okay with letting ourselves down,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: but we don't wanna let others down.
• 13:00
  And when you say no to somebody,
• 13:01
  I think you're worried that you're gonna let them down.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're worried you're going to make them angry or make them feel bad.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I had a sales job once where I had contacted somebody.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: They said they were interested.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: They asked me to put together an offer.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I put together an offer.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried for weeks to find this person.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of him saying, hey, Nia, look, we looked over your offer.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not the right opportunity for us.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: He totally avoided me, ended up blocking my email address.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: When I called the switchboard, right, she said, oh, sure, let me get him.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then when she came back, she said, oh, he's on vacation.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have said,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: let me get him if you already knew he was on vacation.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why not just say no?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can say no politely.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think like you say,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: there's a nice way to say no by just,
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: letting the other person,
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: this is not personally,
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: here's what I think,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: no.
• 13:56
  And then maybe help them if possible to find a solution instead
• 14:01
  of just avoiding
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: the conversation.
• 14:05
  And so what I hear you saying is communication can sometimes be
• 14:09
  uncomfortable and challenging.
• 14:12
  Your summary about communication being uncomfortable,
• 14:14
  I would add the word sometimes.
• 14:16
  What I do think is that if you have open and honest
• 14:20
  communication as a regular part
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: of how you communicate,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Might there be times where you're going to have to have an uncomfortable
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: conversation with people?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I do believe if you're being open and honest kind of the whole way,
• 14:36
  then the room for uncomfortable conversations or the amount of
• 14:41
  times it needs to
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: happen shrinks.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've been open and honest from the beginning.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And again, don't get me wrong.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying...
• 14:48
  Because sometimes things come up and they're uncomfortable and
• 14:51
  you have to bring
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: them up.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because not bringing them up doesn't make the situation go away.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And leaving that kind of uncomfortable situation...
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: over here in the corner, it doesn't disappear.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: It only gets bigger and it takes up more space and it gets more scary.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it's time where you can't ignore it any longer,
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: then it's usually a more uncomfortable situation.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I do a mentorship program at the local university and
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it, of course, is helping them with their work.
• 15:23
  It's an entrepreneurship program,
• 15:24
  so I help them with their entrepreneur programs.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of it is learning to deal with difficult situations.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say that in the 10 years I've been doing it,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: if maybe a dozen times I've had to coach people through having difficult
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: conversations,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: honestly,
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Probably 11 out of those 12 times,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: they said,
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: it wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: It went so much better than I thought.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because they were proactive and they handled it well.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: They handled it maturely, right?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: One trick that I've learned for sure also is...
• 15:59
  Do not get into a conversation if you can avoid it at all when
• 16:03
  emotions are running high.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you're super angry, don't answer that email, right?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody says no and you can't, right?
• 16:14
  Take a pause,
• 16:15
  take a few deep breaths,
• 16:16
  take even a few minutes if you can.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because generally when you can filter out some of the emotion,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: you can have a conversation that while difficult,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: shouldn't or won't escalate into something that blows up.
• 16:30
  That's very interesting because if I think about my own life
• 16:35
  and where things
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: didn't go as planned,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: it's probably because I was too emotional when I engaged with people.
• 16:48
  So let's say it's about giving feedback or saying no or just
• 16:54
  setting boundaries.
• 16:55
  If you're too emotional,
• 16:57
  you're too angry,
• 16:58
  and you do that,
• 17:00
  it's not going to be very pretty.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and look, even though I...
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I try to practice what I preach, right?
• 17:11
  There are times where I'll read an email and the first thing
• 17:13
  I'll want to do is hit reply.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Take out my anger on the keyboard.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I almost never do it now, thankfully.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I can say, looking back, when I did that, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: When I took my anger out on the keyboard, it almost never ended well.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: It always escalated the situation and it didn't make things better.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, and I know we're not really talking about that today.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: You have,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:38
  your listeners have methods of how to soothe their anger and
• 17:42
  how to release stress.
• 17:44
  And,
• 17:44
  you know,
• 17:44
  I've got some of those as well because it's not that I never
• 17:48
  get angry.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, we all get angry, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And anger is an okay emotion.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just if...
• 17:54
  In the heat of the battle,
• 17:56
  you incorporate that anger into your conversation.
• 17:58
  You're probably going to say something you regret and you're
• 18:00
  probably going to make
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: the situation far worse.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:03
  So what I hear you say is it's okay to get angry,
• 18:07
  disappointed,
• 18:08
  but it is what you do with it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can take a pause, you can write that letter, but don't send it.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just take a pause, put it aside.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can be angry.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then when the anger subsides, take action.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And another, you know, you can write the letter, don't send it.
• 18:31
  And then maybe have somebody that you know and trust look it
• 18:34
  over before you send it,
• 18:36
  you know?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully it's somebody who can be honest with you, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Who can give you a little bit of tough love.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we all need a little kick in the pants, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, you know, I'm looking this over.
• 18:48
  And I think the way you worded this year,
• 18:50
  I think it's really going to upset them even more.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Those kinds of friends are invaluable.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the kind of friendship you and I have.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that we can kick each other in the pants when needed.
• 19:01
  But the thing is also is that we do it in a way where we know
• 19:05
  it's coming from a place of love.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming from a place of giving and not just saying it to be critical.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: We care about the success of the other person.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes when we're so involved in our own stuff,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: We need that external viewpoint.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the saying, can't see the forest for the trees.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm in the middle of it and you're outside of it,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I can trust you to help guide me out of it as well.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree with you 100%.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I started the podcast very recently.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I was planning and brainstorming and I was brainstorming,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: what name should I have?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about speaking with meaning, speaking of meaning.
• 19:50
  And of course,
• 19:50
  I landed in the conclusion that it should be speaking of
• 19:53
  meaning.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when I was talking to you, I was texting you all the time.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was even in the middle of the night about ideas.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember you telling me one time that I think,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ibrahim,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: you're just overthinking everything.
• 20:11
  and uh you know are you just overthinking and coming up with a
• 20:16
  lot of ideas and not
• 20:17
  starting sometimes you just need to start yeah you change the
• 20:21
  name later it's not
• 20:23
  going to be perfect in the beginning this is not going to be
• 20:26
  perfect even this show
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: but just get started don't overthink
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Everything.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the people I trust the most will give me the honest feedback.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you are one of those people.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: If we just do a callback to say no,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: to learning how to say no,
• 20:49
  I'm pretty sure I told you no far more often than I told you
• 20:52
  yes during that
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: process.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that you landed on a really solid name.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's not...
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know, it's not carved in stone.
• 21:02
  It doesn't mean it can never change or morph or the further you
• 21:05
  get into it,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: you might pivot a little bit,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: you might change it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with that.
• 21:10
  We have to be flexible and understand that sometimes we need to
• 21:14
  change things and
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: that it's okay.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's how you communicate that change to your followers,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: to your viewers,
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: back to communication,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you have open and honest communication with them,
• 21:25
  then when you make that change,
• 21:28
  they're all gonna go,
• 21:29
  oh yeah,
• 21:29
  that makes sense.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or most of them will.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the ones that you want to go with you anyway.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So basically get started.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Don't focus too much on the details.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: The details are important sometimes,
• 21:45
  but sometimes the reason we might procrastinate or keep coming
• 21:49
  up with idea after
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: idea and just be overwhelmed
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: is maybe because we are a little bit afraid to get started.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree.
• 22:02
  And I think when people hear things like that,
• 22:04
  just get started or fake it till you make it.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you know about the book, I think it's Eric Reese, The Lean Startup.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he talks about an MVP, which is a minimum viable product.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then you read stories about,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:19
  I was in my product development and I just drew something up on
• 22:21
  the back of the
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: napkin and it became a billion dollar idea.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't work all the time, obviously.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's really important you remember whatever percentage,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard it 80-20 and I've heard it 90-10 rule.
• 22:35
  Don't spend 90% of your time on the final 10% of whatever it is
• 22:39
  that you're doing.
• 22:39
  Or don't spend 80% of your time on the final 20% of whatever
• 22:43
  you're doing.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: when you get your ducks in a row,
• 22:46
  when you're ready and you were ready long before you actually
• 22:49
  pressed start.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: and I,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm going to,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to kind of challenge you to tell,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: to tell the story about you and your son when I'm,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: when I'm done with this,
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: because that's a beautiful,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:02
  thing to follow up with about getting started but but when you
• 23:05
  feel comfortable
• 23:06
  enough even if you don't think it's perfect that's when you
• 23:10
  that's when you should
• 23:10
  start don't do it if you're totally unprepared right but get
• 23:14
  started you're going
• 23:15
  to make a podcast you're going to make mistakes you're going to
• 23:17
  stutter you're
• 23:18
  probably going to have a lot of ums and ahs and and and other
• 23:22
  right you're probably
• 23:23
  going to have those and and that's okay you're going to have
• 23:25
  podcasts where
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: You have to kind of reach through the camera and drag answers out.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I'm not one of those guests.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I could go on for hours.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So a certain level of preparation, absolutely.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying to go into this blind.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: But at some point, you got to press start.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then you got to be open to feedback.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you got to be open to correcting your mistakes, right?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about not making mistakes.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's about how you correct them and how you move forward from them.
• 23:51
  I think your audience would really love to hear the story about
• 23:54
  you and your son right now.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you're talking about is moving forward,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: connecting with people,
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: getting started and not just staying stuck.
• 24:06
  And so I have been thinking about starting a podcast for many,
• 24:11
  many years.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would talk to my son about it and I would not get started.
• 24:18
  I have been in the speaking business for a long time,
• 24:21
  so I know my stuff.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem was getting started.
• 24:25
  And I think the reason why I did not get started was simply
• 24:29
  because I was too uncomfortable
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know everything.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to know every step along the way.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this is impossible if you're starting something new.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so one day I was sitting with him and I ordered a new mic.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, this mic right here.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he looked at me and he said,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Dad,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: you've been talking about starting a podcast for a long time.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should just get started.
• 25:00
  Because you always tell me,
• 25:02
  get started,
• 25:04
  try new things and never give up.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so he looks at me and he says, I want you to start and never give up.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just so beautiful because he gave me my own advice.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: He gave me my own advice.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: You taught him well.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 25:28
  And the problem is that sometimes we give advice and maybe we
• 25:33
  don't follow them ourselves.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that night I decided, hey, this is what I want to do.
• 25:42
  And even if I have one listener or a thousand listeners,
• 25:46
  it doesn't matter.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: What matters is I want to get started.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to create content.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make an impact.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to learn along the way.
• 25:57
  And I think what my son was doing was truly connecting by using
• 26:04
  simple but powerful words.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you a question, Neil.
• 26:10
  A lot of the time we know what we want to say,
• 26:14
  but we don't connect with other people.
• 26:17
  So how can we go from knowing what to say to truly connecting
• 26:22
  and influencing others?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, it's also situational.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you're talking to somebody face to face over coffee,
• 26:37
  I think how you connect with them is different than maybe if
• 26:39
  you're speaking on a
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: stage in front of 10 to 1000 people.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: There are differences here.
• 26:46
  What I do think is maybe universal,
• 26:49
  regardless,
• 26:51
  is people connect with people,
• 26:56
  right?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: They connect with other human beings.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: When you're near physical,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: if you just reach out and put a hand on their forearm,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: that helps to connect.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Eye contact, not constantly looking around or anything.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that works, I think, regardless.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in a big arena,
• 27:17
  making sure that you're spreading the eye contact and not only
• 27:20
  focused on the
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: person in the middle of the third row,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: that helps you connect.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then is your body language, are you closed off?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Are you, right?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you open?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: These things signal things to other people.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think applies universally for sure.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: How you say things.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I especially believe that personal stories,
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: connect people.
• 27:44
  If there's anybody listening to you who didn't feel a
• 27:46
  connection with you when you
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: were telling the story about your son,
• 27:49
  I think they should check their pulse because I'm not quite
• 27:51
  sure then how that
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: would work.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think personal stories when appropriate, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: In certain circumstances, they can really help you to connect.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: People ask me all the time, what's the best pitch you've ever heard?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now with 4,000 pitches listened to under my belt around
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: it's really hard to remember kind of one.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Many have stood out.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: But what I can remember is that the ones that stand out the most,
• 28:17
  almost all of them had some kind of personal story woven into
• 28:22
  the pitch to make the
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: listener feel like
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: it could happen to them, or this is something I care about too.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or, oh, imagine, you know, if this happened to my mother, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's an amazing way of connecting.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So all of these tools, there are more.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have everything, you know, memorized.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: There are more for sure, but I think
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: What I've answered right now,
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: if you start with those,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll find your connection level.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's one on one over coffee or standing on a big stage somewhere,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll find your connection level skyrocket for sure.
• 28:59
  I totally agree with you,
• 29:00
  especially when it comes to stories and telling stories.
• 29:04
  Sharing a personal story is important if you want to connect
• 29:08
  with them because we
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: convey emotions.
• 29:12
  And so when we tell a story and make a point,
• 29:17
  we're able to connect with the audience.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: I remember one time when I was having a meeting with a company
• 29:26
  It was a big company and I was talking to the CEO and he wanted
• 29:29
  me to work with
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: them on trust in the workplace.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is my area.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing it for a long time, so I felt very comfortable.
• 29:39
  And I was excited because he told me that it would be a project
• 29:44
  for about two,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: three years minimum.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really excited.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he said he believed in me.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: He said he liked me.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: He said he wanted to work with me.
• 29:55
  And then he said,
• 29:56
  but before we sign the contract,
• 29:59
  I want you to meet my HR director.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: If she says yes, we're going to sign the contract.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, go ahead.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's meet the HR director.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was excited,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: but also a bit nervous because I knew if I get this deal,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to worry for the next two,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: three years,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: perhaps even five years.
• 30:20
  And we're sitting there at a meeting and I'm explaining my
• 30:25
  model,
• 30:26
  how I work,
• 30:27
  what I do.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I've worked with big companies.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've done this for a long time.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm comfortable with the content.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then afterwards I walk out the meeting and I have a good feeling.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably going to get this job.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to get the contract.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of time.
• 30:44
  And a day passes,
• 30:45
  two days,
• 30:46
  three days,
• 30:47
  five days,
• 30:48
  I don't hear anything.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I call the CEO and he doesn't pick up the phone.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Instead,
• 30:54
  I get an email and he tells me that his HR director was not
• 31:01
  persuaded by my
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: presentation.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted the HR director to give me that job.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: And she ended up giving it to somebody who was not as qualified as I was,
• 31:15
  but probably had a good delivery and was more genuine in his or
• 31:21
  her approach.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So can I ask you a question about that?
• 31:24
  Because obviously I wasn't there,
• 31:25
  so I don't feel comfortable giving feedback.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: But did you give the same presentation to her that you gave to the CEO?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: I did, but I think she asked more tough questions.
• 31:38
  The reason that I ask is it goes back to what I said a few
• 31:40
  minutes ago about
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: different audiences require different information.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And even if it's not 100% different,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: and trust me,
• 31:49
  I'm not a fan of creating two completely different pitch decks
• 31:55
  when you can just
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: tweak 20% to 25% to maybe 30% of it for a new audience.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the HR manager...
• 32:02
  While her goals are in line with the CEO,
• 32:05
  she still has different goals than the CEO does.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: She has different responsibilities than the CEO does.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: She needs to hear different things.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you know your stuff.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I know you're not afraid of tough questions.
• 32:17
  But if you were trying to give her the same message that you
• 32:19
  gave the CEO,
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: and again,
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: I can't be sure of this.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: But from my experience,
• 32:26
  I can believe that that was at least part of the reason why she
• 32:31
  went with somebody
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: else.
• 32:35
  yeah that could be the case but I think looking back I think
• 32:39
  looking back I think I
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: tried too hard as well yeah okay I think I tried too hard as well
• 32:45
  All right,
• 32:45
  so self-confidence obviously plays a big role in communication.
• 32:51
  It's another reason why I'm such a fanatic about getting the
• 32:58
  structure and the
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: content down first.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Most people are very confident about
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: projects they're working on or a company that they start up.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: They know their stuff, right?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're not necessarily very confident on how to deliver it,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: but through the process of creating an effective pitch with a structure,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then with clear content,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: depending on who you're speaking to and what the goal of that pitch is,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: their confidence level rises every single time they do it.
• 33:33
  I've been running something at a local science park called
• 33:35
  Pitcher's Corner for about 11 years.
• 33:37
  And the magic behind this is that they pitch two times and get
• 33:44
  constructive feedback.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Notice I didn't say criticism.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even say constructive criticism.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't believe criticism helps people get better.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I believe constructive feedback can help people get better.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've seen it happen thousands of times.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the real magic behind it is they do it twice.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they do it once and they're really nervous.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they don't do very well.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: But they always do better the second time.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And after the second time they say...
• 34:13
  oh,
• 34:13
  okay,
• 34:14
  maybe I wasn't great today,
• 34:16
  but I was better and I can do this.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because pitching is one of those things where the more you do it,
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: the better you get at it,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: for sure.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Your self-confidence is absolutely key.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we talk about fake it till you make it,
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: and I did see your video about fake it till you make it,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: and I agree with you partially on that,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: whether you should do it or not,
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: because connection,
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I agree,
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: is very hard to fake.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: You were kind of very specific in your video about that.
• 34:43
  But there is actual research that says that even if you're not
• 34:47
  feeling very
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: confident,
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: how you hold yourself can lift your confidence.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that faking it till you make it?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we could probably have a debate about what that really is.
• 34:58
  But there are things that you can do to put you in a more
• 35:01
  confident state,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: even if deep down inside you're not very confident.
• 35:05
  Many times people will deliver a great pitch and they'll say,
• 35:08
  oh my God,
• 35:08
  I was so nervous.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, really?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't tell.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I was so nervous.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, but they did really well.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, is that faking it till you make it?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: But they held themselves confidently.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: They knew their stuff.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: They were still nervous to speak in front of other people.
• 35:23
  But what I can tell you is doing this more than 12 years and
• 35:25
  having spoken in
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: public for more than 20 years,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: never,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: not once,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: zero times have I ever seen somebody die on the stage.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: None.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And being confident in your ability doesn't mean you never make mistakes.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Of course you make mistakes.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're all human.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: But the crowd...
• 35:43
  Listen to me when I say this,
• 35:44
  because a lot of times we don't think that they are.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: The crowd is always or almost always,
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: and when I say almost,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean 99.99% of the time behind you.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: They want to see you succeed.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: They want to see a clear pitch.
• 36:00
  They want to have a presentation that's interesting and
• 36:03
  effective and educational,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: depending on what the presentation is.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully that can help you overcome your nerves.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: But there are some processes to help you do that as well.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be confident and still be nervous.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've spoken in front of people hundreds, if not thousands of times.
• 36:20
  And there are times when I get up on stage where I'm still
• 36:23
  nervous,
• 36:24
  for sure.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I know how to manage that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the difference.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's not about not being nervous.
• 36:31
  It's about how you handle that nervousness,
• 36:34
  how you deal with it,
• 36:36
  that you contain it.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't control you.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: You control it, but it's still there.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Being nervous is a good thing because it means you care.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're nervous because you want to do a good job.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Think about standing up in front of the stage.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: There are hundreds of people who have come to hear you speak.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, maybe they've come to hear other people speak, too.
• 36:55
  Maybe you're one of a few people,
• 36:57
  but they're still there,
• 36:58
  at least in part,
• 36:59
  to hear you speak.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that could make people nervous for sure, right?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that they're rooting for you,
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: can help you,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: if you remember that,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: can help get you through that nervousness.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: What I hear is,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: and I've heard this before too,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: and this is my advice,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: the audience wants you to succeed.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're giving a talk and you're nervous and you're scared,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: that's just going to affect the audience,
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 37:29
  It's not comfortable to be in the audience and see somebody who
• 37:33
  is very nervous and
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: very scared,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: who doesn't believe in themselves.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: We want the best for you.
• 37:40
  So we're going to have those feelings as well because emotions
• 37:43
  are contagious.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the audience wants you to succeed.
• 37:48
  And just really briefly,
• 37:50
  Neil,
• 37:51
  you mentioned my video about don't fake it.
• 37:54
  What I meant there,
• 37:55
  just like you said,
• 37:56
  is about don't be somebody you're not.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a slight difference here from standing up straight,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: your chest out there,
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: you trying to use your body to look confident or to feel more confident.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think those strategies are good,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: but I think sometimes,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: and I've also made this mistake too on this stage,
• 38:20
  is when we try to be somebody we're not because we really want
• 38:24
  the audience to like
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: us.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've been talking about communication in business.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so my question to you is,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: communication is not just about business,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: but it also shapes relationships and our self-belief.
• 38:42
  What do you have to say about that when it comes to
• 38:45
  relationships and our self-belief?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: If we start with the self-belief, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Self-talk, how we talk to ourselves matters.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit based on,
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: like what we were saying before,
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: when you stand up straight,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: you tend to feel more confident.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: When you talk to yourself about, you can't do that.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: You never did that before.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're no good.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're no good at this.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I don't know if this is correct.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's credited to Henry Ford that he said,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: if you believe you can or you can't,
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: or if you believe you can't,
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: you're right.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about your self-talk.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: that doesn't mean that if I convince myself that I can fly,
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can jump off the roof and fly.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about that.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: But when you lift yourself up,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: when you are positive about yourself,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: when you treat yourself differently,
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: yourself with respect and be positive.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And being positive doesn't mean you ignore the problems.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: But you've said a few times already today,
• 39:47
  it's not that problems never come your way that will affect the
• 39:50
  quality of your
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: life.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's how you deal with the problem that affects the quality of your life.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that I that I go around going, I have no problems.
• 39:59
  No,
• 39:59
  but if I keep a positive frame of mind,
• 40:01
  if I talk to myself going,
• 40:02
  hey,
• 40:03
  you know what?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: You've made it through 60 years and you're still standing.
• 40:08
  You must be doing something right when it comes to getting past
• 40:12
  the problems that
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: you've had in your life because you have had.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to have more.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Guess what?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of being alive.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: You've handled them quite well in the past, Neil.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can handle them in the future too.
• 40:24
  And then call back all the way to the beginning of when we talk
• 40:29
  about the people
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: that we have around us.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know that if I have a big problem,
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: especially in certain areas,
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have people in my corner who can help me,
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: such as you.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: if we talk about relationships,
• 40:43
  the first thing that comes to most people's mind is our
• 40:46
  romantic relationships,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: are super important to us.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not only romantic relationships, right?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: We have friends.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have colleagues.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: We have children.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: We have family members, et cetera, et cetera.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when we talk about relationships –
• 41:02
  You can't convince me that open,
• 41:04
  honest,
• 41:05
  and sometimes tough communication isn't the way to go.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we,
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: at times,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: we also assume the worst of people,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: and that affects our communication because we get defensive.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: We feel that if somebody does something that we believe is,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: let's say,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: against us,
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: or that we believe that they're trying to hurt us,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: But more often than not, it's a misconception.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a misrepresentation.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where a tough conversation would need to come in.
• 41:39
  So Ibrahim,
• 41:40
  if I asked something of you and you couldn't do it and I really
• 41:44
  needed your help,
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: then I might say,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: dude,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: when I asked you to do that,
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: it really disappointed me that you couldn't.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you might say to me, oh, geez, Neil, I'm really sorry.
• 41:53
  You know,
• 41:53
  I would have loved to,
• 41:55
  but I had this and this and this going on.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you didn't tell me that in your no, right?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: But if I automatically assume the worst,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: then I might say,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: that Ibrahim,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: he's not a friend anymore.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I may ruin a perfectly good friendship.
• 42:09
  And it could just be because the biggest reason you were saying
• 42:12
  no was that you
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: were under so much stress at the time.
• 42:14
  That you didn't think to go into detail or you didn't want to
• 42:19
  go into detail at the time.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to necessarily share everything.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that this kind of communication, it's a two-way street.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody says something that you're not happy with,
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was just about to use the word confront them.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I don't want you to confront them.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Speak to them about it.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't confront them, actually.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Don't say, Abraham, why did you say no?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you say no to that?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: I help you all the time, man.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe you said no.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: That was BS, man.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Abraham,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: because when I say this,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: and I know this,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: I realize for a lot of people,
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: this also sounds like woo-woo stuff.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is how it made me feel.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is that when I say that, I'm not attacking you.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not putting you on a defensive.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does it work with everybody all the time?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 43:07
  You still might get defensive,
• 43:09
  but guaranteed you'll get defensive if I attack,
• 43:13
  if I confront.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 43:15
  far less likely to happen if i say hey dude when you said no it
• 43:19
  really made me feel
• 43:19
  like you didn't care about my problem and our friendship wasn't
• 43:22
  that important to
• 43:23
  you you know if you say something like that so communication
• 43:26
  relationships they go
• 43:27
  through hard times in fact i i forget whether it's harvard or
• 43:30
  yale has done the
• 43:31
  longest study on on happiness um that's ever been done it's
• 43:35
  something like 80 years
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: they've been doing it and the number one
• 43:41
  indicator of how happy a person is when they get into the later
• 43:46
  years in their life
• 43:48
  is the quality of their relationships and that all comes down
• 43:51
  to communication it's
• 43:52
  all about communication if you if you're going to be with
• 43:55
  somebody for a long time
• 43:56
  whether it's romantic or friends or kids you're going to have
• 43:59
  your ups and downs
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to have problems
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have to learn how to communicate with each other.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have to learn how to be kind to each other.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: You have to learn,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: like I said,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: to not take everything personal and think the worst of the other person.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of confront them, communicate with them.
• 44:15
  I hope that helps because it has definitely helped me to lead a
• 44:20
  more brilliant life
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: is to not only view communication as a great business tool,
• 44:25
  but that it really is to me the number one thing and you can
• 44:29
  get better at it.
• 44:30
  to lead a brilliant life professionally,
• 44:33
  personally,
• 44:34
  spiritually,
• 44:34
  and otherwise.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's great advice, Neil.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So what I hear you say is that how you talk to yourself,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: self-talk is important,
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: and how you communicate with others is important.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: So don't confront the other person.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to them, especially when you give them feedback.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Don't attack the person.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about the issue.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about what they did, not who they are as a human being.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds right.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Great advice.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is great.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you a question.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: What does speaking of meaning mean to you?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: so,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 45:19
  because I was at least an interested spectator in your journey
• 45:24
  towards finding this
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: name and landing on it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard you speak many times,
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: both,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: professionally,
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: we talk quite a lot.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you landed on this, to me, when I hear that, I think of you.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think about you.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think about your authenticity.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think about your honesty.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think about your empathy.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think about the fact that you care about other human beings.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 45:50
  it's one of the things that I love about you is your ability to
• 45:54
  communicate in such
• 45:55
  a way that you touch other people because you legitimately care
• 46:00
  about other people.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not fake.
• 46:02
  You don't have to fake that till you make it because you've
• 46:04
  made that already.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think of this big,
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: broad thing,
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: even though I know you're a multi-talented guy too,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: especially in this venue,
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: the communication.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: But when somebody would say to me, speak in meaning, I would picture you.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, man.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say somebody is struggling with communication at home,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: in the workplace,
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: and they have problems communicating with others.
• 46:41
  There is maybe a problem or there's a conflict or they don't
• 46:47
  know how to express themselves.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you think they should start?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to sound really basic,
• 46:56
  but I think you need to start with sitting down with the other
• 46:59
  person and talking
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: with them.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, not from a point of attack.
• 47:04
  Too often also in communication,
• 47:06
  people try so hard to be right that they are willing to
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: insult other people, criticize other people, hurt other people.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time when those people do that,
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: it's because of their own pain that they're feeling inside,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if I attacked you because you didn't help me,
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: That attack is coming from my disappointment that you didn't help me.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't notice, I didn't say my disappointment in you.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was my disappointment about your decision, right?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know who you are.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: So why would I become disappointed in you?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because you said no to me one time.
• 47:48
  Now,
• 47:48
  that doesn't mean my feelings aren't valid,
• 47:50
  that I was disappointed in your decision.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: But when I come from a place of, can we talk about your decision?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: So help me to understand it.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I did, I got hurt when you said no to me.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: That opens up
• 48:04
  a room for a constructive dialogue where you're not belittling
• 48:11
  me to try to be
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: right and I'm not badgering you to try to prove that I'm right.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because in this particular instance, nobody was right or wrong, right?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't,
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: it was just,
• 48:22
  you said no to me because you were under a really stressful
• 48:25
  time in the moment.
• 48:27
  and like i said you either forgot to tell me you know because
• 48:30
  it was so stressful
• 48:31
  or you didn't want to tell me in that moment about it which is
• 48:33
  totally your right
• 48:35
  to do right so there was no right or wrong but if i come in
• 48:39
  accusing you your your
• 48:40
  initial reaction is going to be to try to prove that that you
• 48:43
  were right in saying
• 48:44
  no to me um and then i'm just going to give you more ammunition
• 48:47
  to say no to me
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: again in the future because now i'm i'm attacking you
• 48:51
  I don't really see a difference in doing that with somebody
• 48:56
  close to you if there's
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: a misunderstanding.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, more often than not, it's not an attack.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not them trying to hurt you.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: More often than not, it's a misunderstanding.
• 49:10
  That doesn't mean it's never an attack and you need to be able
• 49:12
  to differentiate.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:14
  And if somebody is really mistreating you all the time,
• 49:17
  verbal abuse is a thing,
• 49:19
  too.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that could be all another podcast.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talk about how to get away from verbally abusive people.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: But but that's not what we're talking about.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about kind of, you know, normal every day.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes Eva has to say no to Neil.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: So basically,
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Face it,
• 49:39
  engage with the person and have empathy and try to understand
• 49:45
  their perspective,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: their point of view and start the conversation right.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: So don't attack the person, deal with the issue.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Does that sound fair?
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good summary.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so much division in the world today.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much, I hate you.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: I hate you.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: You voted for this person.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: You like green curry.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: I like yellow curry.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: We just find so many ways to divide ourselves.
• 50:15
  And if I could just relay a really short story is I had the
• 50:21
  pleasure of spending a
• 50:22
  month in China in July teaching English as a second language to
• 50:27
  nine students.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to get into the politics of things right now.
• 50:32
  I'm sure there are a lot of things that we might disagree with
• 50:35
  the Chinese
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: government on,
• 50:36
  just like they probably disagree with the governments of our
• 50:39
  favorite countries.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: When you get down to people,
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: to me,
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: to you,
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: to me and my the nine students that I taught.
• 50:47
  man,
• 50:48
  people are so much more alike than our leaders try to give us
• 50:52
  credit for.
• 50:52
  And when you're supportive and when you're caring and when
• 50:55
  you're empathetic and
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: when you have tough conversations,
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: because I had to have tough conversations with a few of them at times,
• 51:02
  but when you have a tough conversation and you're coming at it
• 51:05
  from a place of,
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: look,
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: you're in this class because you want to get better,
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: but if you don't do these things,
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: you're not going to get better,
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of, why didn't you do it?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's wrong with you?
• 51:16
  We could have those conversations and I have to say they really
• 51:19
  appreciated it
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: because at our base level,
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: we're all human beings.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: and I think almost all of us,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: we just kind of want the same things,
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: but for some reason,
• 51:29
  we've kind of lost the ability to communicate with each other
• 51:33
  from a point of,
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: instead of trying to understand,
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: we tried to undermine,
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of being empathetic, we go on the attack.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have more in common than we think.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're all human beings.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Great advice.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Neil, my friend, we're almost going to wrap up.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question for you that I have been thinking about.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if someone wants to make greater impact,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's at work or with their loved ones,
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: with their friends,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: or just life in general,
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: what one advice do you have for them?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: it's no surprise that I'm going to say improve your communication skills,
• 52:19
  but that would be a simple answer if I don't go into it in a
• 52:23
  little bit more
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: detail.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I'm a big fan of Toastmasters.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm no longer active in it for lots of different reasons.
• 52:28
  It has nothing to do with me not believing in the organization
• 52:32
  and not thinking
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: that it's a phenomenal organization.
• 52:34
  way to improve your ability to communicate because it's not
• 52:37
  just about speaking
• 52:38
  it's about listening and leadership and organization and all
• 52:42
  things that can help
• 52:43
  you um so so so that could be one one one way there are ted
• 52:48
  talks you know that
• 52:49
  where people talk about communication i mean if you're looking
• 52:52
  for pitch advice
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: because you're looking to to lift your startup
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: I run a business called pitchphd.com or pitchninja.online,
• 53:02
  which is an online course where you can learn the valuable tool
• 53:06
  of pitching.
• 53:06
  There are lots of different ways that you can improve your
• 53:09
  communication skills.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, become a become a follower of speaking with meaning.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to Ibrahim because, you know, this guy's spot on as well.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing shameless plugs right now.
• 53:20
  But hopefully we've also given your listeners a lot of value
• 53:23
  where the plugs are.
• 53:25
  Oh,
• 53:25
  maybe I do want to know a little bit more about Ibrahim and
• 53:27
  what he's doing.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or,
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a startup,
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: but man,
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: my brother in law does and he's really struggling.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, you know, Neil can teach him how to pitch or whatever.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: this podcast is about giving value.
• 53:38
  And hopefully for however long we've been talking,
• 53:40
  we have provided that value.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I honestly believe doing it more, right?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in a romantic relationship,
• 53:47
  make sure you carve out 15 to 20 minutes a day to sit down and
• 53:52
  talk with people.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we're busy.
• 53:54
  And you know,
• 53:55
  if you have young kids,
• 53:56
  I have three kids,
• 53:56
  they're not young anymore.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember how hard it was.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you but
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Making it a priority is the only way to improve something.
• 54:07
  And we can all use the excuse that we're busy,
• 54:10
  but then there's the counter excuse.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: If it was important enough to you, you'd find the time to do it.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all about a priority.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I believe so.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Great, Neil.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great advice.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so pitchphd.com is one of my websites.
• 54:34
  I'm a communications consultant,
• 54:36
  so I have a few different arenas right now.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: But pitchphd.com is about the pitching.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I did a digital course where actually it's broken out.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned before about the delivery.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe delivery is super important.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I've actually broken it out into kind of three main courses.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: One is introduction.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Then one is how to develop the pitch.
• 54:57
  And then the last one is how to deliver a pitch because it is
• 55:01
  super important and
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: they're separate courses,
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: but you can,
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: get them all in one bundle.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on LinkedIn, NEAL, Greenspan.
• 55:08
  I'm probably the only one in Sweden,
• 55:10
  but my LinkedIn profile is in English mostly.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find me there.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: as well.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you have any kind of speaker notes,
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to leave to drop an email address in there.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: But if you look on those websites,
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: you absolutely can find ways to reach out to me and to contact me.
• 55:26
  great neil thank you so much and you've also you've always
• 55:29
  supported me you've
• 55:30
  you've coached me many times and i know you're a great speaker
• 55:33
  and communicator
• 55:35
  thank you for everything thank you for your guidance and thank
• 55:39
  you for everything
• 55:40
  you have said today all the advice thank you so much neil
• 55:44
  you're you're very
• 55:45
  welcome i hope the listeners appreciated it and and thanks for
• 55:48
  having me on the
• 55:49
  show as one of your early guests i'm excited to see where this
• 55:52
  where this could
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: lead for you
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you will be back, Neil.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a date.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good day.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Speaking of Meaning.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: If today's episode helped you see communication in a new way,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: share it with someone you care about,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: a friend,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: a partner,
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: or a colleague who wants to grow.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ibrahim.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, better communication, greater impact.