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The Hidden Ocean World Most of Us Will Never See · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  When I was a kid, I never expected that
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  there would be a program
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  available in the future
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  where I could watch as a student, I could
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  watch scientists explore the deep sea.
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  That was never a thing that ever crossed
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  my mind and is happening right now.
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  This is the How to Protect the Ocean
• 0:19
  podcast, your weekday ocean news update.
• 0:22
  If you are interested in finding out
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  everything you need to know
• 0:24
  on the ocean every weekday,
• 0:26
  Monday to Friday, you can do that by
• 0:28
  following this podcast on
• 0:30
  your favorite podcast app.
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  I'm your host Andrew Lewin. Welcome back
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  to the How to Protect
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  the Ocean podcast. Today,
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  we are wrapping up our special series
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  with Ocean Networks Canada
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  called Surfacing Secrets,
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  Explore the Ocean, Know the Planet.
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  Throughout the series, we've been looking
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  at ocean technology,
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  science, education, and storytelling come
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  together to help us
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  better understand the ocean
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  and protect it. And for this final
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  episode, we're going to be going deep,
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  literally. I'm speaking
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  with Monica Peltz from Ocean Networks
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  Canada and Heidi Gartner from Fisheries
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  and Nodes Canada about
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  deep sea exploration in the Northeast
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  Pacific. We talk about what it takes to
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  study places most people
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  will never see, why deep sea ecosystems
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  matter and how scientists,
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  educators, and communities
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  are working together to bring these
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  hidden ocean worlds to the surface. This
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  is a great conversation
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  to end a series because it captures
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  exactly why ocean exploration matters.
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  The more we understand
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  the ocean, the better equipped we are to
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  protect it. So let's get into the final
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  episodes of Surfacing
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  Secrets, Explore the Ocean, Know the
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  Planet, a collaboration
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  between How to Protect the Ocean
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  podcast and Ocean Networks Canada. Enjoy
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  the interview and I will
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  talk to you after. Hey, Heidi.
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  Hey, Monica. Welcome to the How to
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  Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready
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  to talk about the Northeast Pacific
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  deep sea exploration project? Absolutely.
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  Right on. That's a mouthful. I have to
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  admit, but it's a
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  really just in the name.
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  It causes a lot of interest. I'm looking
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  forward to diving into this education
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  project with Department
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  of Fisheries and Oceans and
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  ONC Ocean Networks Canada. It's going to
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  be a lot of fun. We have Monica from ONC
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  and Heidi from DFO here to talk about the
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  project. We're going to dive into all the
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  different aspects and what it's been able
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  to do, what's been able to accomplish,
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  and I can't wait to do so. Let's dive in.
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  But before we do, Monica,
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  why don't we start with you? Can you just
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  let us know who you are and what you do?
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  Absolutely. Thank you. My name is Monica
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  Peltz. I am a K-12 education coordinator
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  with Ocean Networks
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  Canada, another great mouthful.
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  Basically what it means I get to do is I
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  get to work with teachers and students
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  and folks like Heidi on bringing the
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  ocean into classrooms,
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  sharing it with teachers and the general
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  public and folks like you. There's
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  really, really great work going on there.
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  And I have the honor of being the
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  facilitator or the conduit to all those
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  audiences to share the ocean in new and
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  exciting ways and hopefully get kids and
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  other folks jazzed about
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  what's happening under the waves.
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  Amazing. Amazing. And
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  Heidi, how about yourself?
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  Hi, I'm a biologist with the deep sea
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  ecology program at Christian Sciences
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  Canada. And yeah, my job is really cool.
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  I study the deep sea and we're going to
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  talk all about it today.
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  Awesome. Can't wait. Now, just to start
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  off, Monica, why don't you just let us
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  know what the program is? So the
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  Northeast Pacific Deep Sea Exploration
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  Project, we've said it a number of times.
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  What is it and what are
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  the main goals behind it?
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  That's a great question. And and I would
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  sum up in an easy way. It's a great
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  collaboration between scientists,
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  communicators, marine planning
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  professionals, federal and indigenous
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  governments, nonprofit institutions and
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  even academia to explore the ocean,
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  discover new life, protect the new life
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  and the life that's down there.
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  Document and be in all of these
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  remarkable ecosystems and basically just
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  kind of cultivate excellence through a
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  partnership diversity, inclusivity and
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  understand enhance our understanding of
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  the deep sea and
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  different ways of knowing.
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  Amazing. Amazing. Now, Heidi, one thing
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  that stood out when we first met is that
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  you grew up near Ottawa. And so you
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  didn't grow up necessarily near the
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  ocean, just like just like I did. Like I
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  like the were there were the same. I grew
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  up in Ontario as well. Now, when you
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  decide to become a marine biologist, how
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  did that experience influence the way you
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  think about connecting
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  people to the deep sea today?
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  Yeah, I it does shape kind of what I
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  think about science and outreach and how
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  we communicate what we learn about the
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  deep sea because I hadn't watched this
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  documentary or film series called the
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  voyage of the moon. I don't think I would
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  have been as engaged
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  and excited about science.
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  And so as a biologist, that whole way
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  communicate science through like
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  publications and journal articles and not
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  everybody reads that was so I think part
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  of this project is trying to get out our
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  science, our
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  discoveries and various formats.
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  And it's a fascinating place and it's
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  important to tell the stories. And so
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  having that experience myself, I think
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  it's helped shape this
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  further down the road. Very nice.
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  And I think that your role folk. Oh,
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  sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry. I was just
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  going to add to Monica's earlier part
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  about the deep or the northern Pacific
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  deep sea exploration project. We often
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  refer to it as deep deep. And I just
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  wanted to accidentally because if I
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  figured out during this podcast and
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  someone's like, what's deep deep? That's
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  kind of the short acronym that we use for
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  it so that we're not saying that no.
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  And one of the ways that the project kind
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  of became official is we went through a
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  United Nations ocean decade in the
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  project and we're kind of trying to
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  address the goals within that. It's like
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  protecting the store ecosystem.
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  And so we're trying to ensure skills,
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  technology and knowledge and
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  participation for all. So it's that
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  included in the activity that Monica
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  talked about. And then the last challenge
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  we're addressing from the United Nations
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  ocean decade is trying to restore
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  society's relationship.
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  So I just wanted to kind of add that part
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  to that early question. Yeah.
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  No, no, you're you're all good. That's
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  perfect. We appreciate that. Now, Monica,
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  your role focuses on helping students and
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  the public connect with the ocean science
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  with ocean science as well. Now, why is
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  making the deep sea accessible and
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  relatable such an
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  important part of this project?
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  I think it's an important part of this
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  project just because it's so amorphous
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  and we want students to have a connection
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  to the whole planet and to realize that
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  it's all part of a system and it's all
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  part of our ecosystem,
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  our shared responsibility.
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  I mean, it's really easy to forget about
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  the things we don't see. I mean, out of
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  sight, out of mind and there's really no
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  place more truly out of sight than below
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  the water and yet there's, you know,
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  probably more biomass down there than
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  there is anywhere else in on the planet
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  biomass being the sheer weight and volume
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  of animals that are available and there
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  are resources and, you know, physics
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  going on down there that we have
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  just a very minimal understanding of and
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  so it's it's a frontier. I mean, I know
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  that that can be a really mixed term, but
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  it's a really unusual place where new
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  discoveries can happen, new explorations
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  can happen and we have this really cool
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  opportunity to do it together in the
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  right way and to bring, you know,
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  discovery to kids, you know, it's it's
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  easy to look at a map and go, oh yeah,
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  we've seen everything. No, we haven't
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  even seen a section of the ocean.
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  Right. Yeah, it's it's amazing. Like, you
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  know, everybody thinks about how vast the
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  deep sea is, but also like people don't
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  really think about what's what's down
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  there. You know, a lot of people and I've
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  heard, you know, the, you know, some
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  people from different industries just
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  like, oh, there's just worms down there.
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  We don't really have to worry about
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  ruining anything down there, but it's a
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  lot more than that. And Heidi, like when
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  people hear the deep sea, you know, they
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  imagine empty, right? A lot of a lot of
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  the kids, I would imagine they don't have
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  that imagination or maybe
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  they do have better imagination.
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  A lot of adults, but they don't see those
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  species, you know, come out. They think
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  it's like dark and empty. Like, what's
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  the reality when your team like sends
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  ROVs down or to explore some of these
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  habitats and what do you see? Like, what
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  are the what's the reality of this of the
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  vision? Well, I got one
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  part right, which is dark.
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  Beautiful, the ocean, the yellow, like
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  where light can penetrate. I mean, it is
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  an extreme environment. So it's cold,
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  it's dark. It's there's a lot of pressure
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  from all the water above you. But what's
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  fascinating is once we started using
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  technology and studying the deep sea,
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  when we turn the lights on, we could
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  actually find a whole abundance and
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  diversity of life and biomass, like
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  Monica said, of life down there.
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  And so what we found is that there's
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  certain features that really do increase
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  the biomass diversity of life. And
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  they're called ecological and
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  biologically significant areas. And
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  what's super cool and not to toot our own
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  horn, but Canada actually has a really
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  incredible concentration of these
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  features in our waters.
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  And they're largely due to things like
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  tectonic plates and the actions of
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  tectonic plates. We live on the smallest
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  tectonic plate in the world. And when,
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  you know, tectonic plates are moving
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  towards each other or apart from each
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  other, all this action
• 9:46
  is shaping the deep sea.
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  So sea mounts are underwater, it's 12
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  kilos that rides over 1000 meters into
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  the deep sea. And if you imagine just
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  like went into the mountain currents that
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  they see mountain and
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  nutrient rich deep water up.
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  And it has this whole cascading effect on
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  beautiful ecosystems that build up with
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  lots of plankton growing filters, like
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  corals and sponges and then all the
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  animals that live in
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  amongst them come in.
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  There's really cool habitats called
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  hydrothermal vents, which are going to
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  sound crazy, but they're super hot
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  geysers of hot water, mineralized water
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  from where tectonic plates are moving
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  apart from each other.
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  And believe it or not, life can thrive
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  there based on bacteria and standing up
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  cold seats where the pressure of tectonic
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  plates moving together creates these
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  environments where gas bubbles are coming
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  out of the sea floor.
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  Again, life thrive there largely because
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  of bacteria. And then there's a deep sea,
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  a lot of like the salt, so
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  old magma from the Earth's core.
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  And it creates these hard structures for
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  things to grow up on. So I think the big
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  thing is when we go down, we turn on the
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  lights of our ORO beams.
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  And it's just this magical world of an
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  abundance University of life that we
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  weren't expecting a long time ago, but
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  we've learned a lot more as technology
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  advances, as science advances.
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  And it's a really magical and cool place.
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  It's not just empty, barren and scary,
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  but we always thought as a human society.
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  Yeah, I can imagine now I have to I'm
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  going to ask in a second. I'm going to
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  ask Monica how the
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  students react to some of this.
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  But Heidi, I like every time you're part
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  of these projects where you're going
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  down, sending the ROVs down, is it like
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  something new every time?
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  Are you surprised? Like, are you in awe
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  of the of even the things that you've
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  seen before, but to be able to see them
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  again live through this
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  feed through the ROVs?
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  Yeah, I would say so like every time we
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  go down, we are often saying everything
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  from behaviors we probably never seen
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  before in the deep sea to literally
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  animals that we've never
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  seen before like science.
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  And a lot of this is because a long time
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  ago we used to sample the ocean more deep
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  sea through through events like falling
• 12:06
  or or or bottom contact with fishing.
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  That's how we would gather information
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  about the deep sea. And so being able to
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  have this technology go
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  down, see the animals in situ.
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  It's really incredible. And I have to
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  say, yeah, like I switched to deep sea
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  study later in my career and I I love
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  every time we go down
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  and like, Whoa, that's me.
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  I've never seen that before or that very
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  cool. So, yeah, it's it's incredible
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  because we still have cited less than a
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  percent of our ocean's like visually
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  documented what life is doing here.
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  Less than a percent. We fish the surface
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  like see more on Mars than we have our
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  own. Yeah. Wow. Incredible. Now, Monica,
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  you know, when you're dealing a lot of
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  times with with the students when they
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  first see the footage of the deep sea
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  animals or and or underwater exploration,
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  like what kinds of reactions do you
• 13:01
  typically typically get?
• 13:02
  Well, the reactions are are exactly as
• 13:05
  you'd expect. And it seems it doesn't
• 13:07
  matter what age you are. It's always,
• 13:08
  wow, what is that? Wow. What is that
• 13:12
  creature doing? Can we see that? Can we
• 13:14
  look closer at that? And then the real
• 13:16
  wow comes in when you tell them where
• 13:19
  it's actually happening.
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  And then you go, well, actually, you
• 13:28
  know, it's closer than Alberta. It's
• 13:30
  closer than, you know, for some folks,
• 13:33
  the tip of Vancouver Island, right? Like
• 13:35
  it depends on where we are, of course.
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  But really, it's actually happening, you
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  know, within our waters and relatively
• 13:41
  close to where we are on land.
• 13:42
  And to emphasize that for students just
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  makes that wow, that much cooler, that
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  much more interesting. And the really,
• 13:50
  really cool thing that students do is the
• 13:53
  hey, come look at this. I can't wait to
• 13:55
  tell someone else. Hey, mom, do you see
• 13:57
  or hey, bud, do you see? And when you're
• 13:59
  experiencing something that you have to
• 14:01
  share with someone else, that means that
• 14:02
  it's really reached you, right? It's not
• 14:05
  just, yeah, okay, whatever. It's oh my
• 14:07
  goodness, I got to tell
• 14:08
  the person next to me.
• 14:08
  But what I'm seeing, even though they're
• 14:10
  in the same room looking in the same
• 14:11
  screen, it's that that do you see that?
• 14:13
  Do you see that? That's just it's so cool
• 14:16
  to get kids engaged in that way. And then
• 14:18
  to have someone like Heidi and the crew
• 14:20
  talking at the same time, and the kids
• 14:22
  go, what is that? And the scientists go,
• 14:24
  we don't know. And they get so jazzed
• 14:27
  that that it's okay to not know, it's
• 14:29
  okay to be exploring these cool things.
• 14:31
  And then, of course, you get all the
• 14:32
  questions. Well, how many new animals
• 14:33
  have you found? How many new things are
• 14:35
  out there? What's the biggest new thing
• 14:37
  you found? And, you
• 14:38
  know, so they can get a
• 14:38
  real real jazz that there's cool things
• 14:41
  out there. That's awesome. That's so
• 14:43
  cool. I get envious when I hear this,
• 14:46
  because I've never been a part of like a
• 14:47
  live thing like that, especially with an
• 14:49
  RV going going down that far. Now, Heidi,
• 14:53
  you mentioned there are moments when your
• 14:55
  team like will be looking at organisms,
• 14:57
  and then you realize they're completely
• 14:58
  new to science. You know, there's there's
• 15:01
  two questions I have that with that. Now,
• 15:03
  like you and your colleagues that are
• 15:05
  looking at these organisms, you must be
• 15:07
  very familiar with a lot of these
• 15:08
  organisms, and to identify something
• 15:10
  like, well, I've never really seen that
• 15:12
  before. You must like,
• 15:13
  know a lot about the deep sea and a lot
• 15:15
  about the taxonomy, the deep
• 15:17
  sea. So like, what are your
• 15:19
  feelings? Like, how do you identify
• 15:21
  something like, well, I've
• 15:22
  never really seen that before.
• 15:23
  And the rest of the crew is like, well,
• 15:24
  I've never seen that
• 15:24
  before. This could be new.
• 15:26
  Once you and when you do kind of realize
• 15:28
  that, what's the
• 15:30
  process after that? Like,
• 15:31
  what is the feeling to be like, Oh, this
• 15:32
  could be something, this
• 15:33
  could be something new,
• 15:34
  we could be describing it. Yeah, I was
• 15:37
  more of an intertidal
• 15:38
  biologist early in my career. And I
• 15:40
  was one of these people that like
• 15:42
  identify everything on the
• 15:43
  shore, you know, like, Oh,
• 15:45
  yeah, this is interesting. So when I went
• 15:47
  to the deep sea, the
• 15:48
  first couple times I went out,
• 15:49
  I was both like, kind of embarrassed,
• 15:51
  because I was like, I
• 15:52
  don't know what that is. Like,
• 15:54
  I don't recognize it. And then I started
• 15:56
  talking to people and a lot
• 15:57
  of people didn't know what it
• 15:58
  was. So we do have taxonomic experts, and
• 16:01
  we are learning, and we can
• 16:02
  often put things like in a
• 16:03
  category, but the specifics of trying to
• 16:06
  figure out if something is
• 16:08
  new to science is it's really
• 16:10
  complicated. And it's both exciting and
• 16:12
  frustrating. Because it's,
• 16:14
  you're staring at it. And this is,
• 16:16
  again, we're really good remotely
• 16:18
  operated vehicle. ROV
• 16:20
  technology has really changed the
• 16:22
  world for us, because we're watching this
• 16:24
  live live feed of a
• 16:25
  camera, we're looking at it, and
• 16:26
  we're starting to puzzle it out. We're
• 16:28
  starting to check our
• 16:28
  resources. We're actually streaming
• 16:30
  the dive live on the internet. So people
• 16:33
  are starting to chip in
• 16:34
  with their, their thoughts.
• 16:36
  And that's really exciting. And then when
• 16:39
  we kind of got an idea
• 16:40
  that we don't have a handle,
• 16:42
  whether we can actually use the ROV
• 16:44
  manipulators or their hands, basically
• 16:47
  the arms to take samples
• 16:49
  of specimens. So we can take off a piece
• 16:52
  of something like it's a
• 16:53
  coral or sponge, or sometimes
• 16:55
  we do put animal. It has storage
• 16:59
  containers on the remote, the operating
• 17:00
  vehicle, and then we bring it
• 17:02
  up to the surface and then we go through
• 17:03
  this whole process on the ship when it
• 17:06
  comes up to the surface,
• 17:07
  where they photograph it, we relax it. So
• 17:11
  we give it other chemicals
• 17:12
  or some sort of treatment,
• 17:13
  a whole treatment to relax the animal. We
• 17:17
  can take tissue samples for like
• 17:18
  genetics, and then we can,
• 17:20
  and then we preserve it and we actually
• 17:22
  usually donate all of our
• 17:23
  specimens to a museum. So one of
• 17:26
  our partners is the Royal Museum Museum.
• 17:28
  And then they have more
• 17:29
  taxonomic experts as well. And then
• 17:31
  even if they can't help answer the
• 17:33
  questions, that's when
• 17:34
  museums also have the bonus of being
• 17:37
  really important to the institution. So
• 17:39
  we'll loan it to like the
• 17:40
  global expert on, you know,
• 17:43
  blacks, corals, and that person will
• 17:45
  receive it. And so it is a
• 17:47
  long process. It can take many
• 17:49
  years, but it's a really important
• 17:50
  process for figuring out what is in the
• 17:54
  deep sea, what biodiversity
• 17:55
  we have in the deep sea. And so it's this
• 17:59
  exciting but extremely frustrating
• 18:01
  process because in about
• 18:02
  you know, five years from when you first
• 18:04
  saw this thing, you might figure out
• 18:05
  exactly what it is. But
• 18:08
  it's still really neat. And it's cool to
• 18:10
  have that feeling of, wow, this is
• 18:12
  something you need to do.
• 18:15
  Oh, yeah, absolutely. Now, Monica, like
• 18:17
  how powerful is it for students when they
• 18:19
  realize that scientists may have
• 18:21
  just discovered something new? Like,
• 18:22
  what's their reaction on it? Like, do
• 18:24
  they just like, what do you
• 18:25
  mean? We've never seen this before? Like,
• 18:27
  how is that possible? That's
• 18:30
  actually, you know, that's,
• 18:31
  that's a quote, you know, what do you
• 18:32
  mean? That's, that's a quote
• 18:34
  that we get from kids, which is
• 18:36
  great. I do tend to fudge the timeline
• 18:38
  of, you know, it takes five
• 18:39
  years or more to know that,
• 18:41
  that it's a new species, because they
• 18:43
  just get so excited about this, that
• 18:45
  there's new things out
• 18:46
  there, which I don't want to dampen. So I
• 18:48
  shouldn't say I, you know, completely
• 18:49
  fudge it, but we do kind
• 18:50
  of get to that part delicately, that it
• 18:52
  takes a while to identify species 100%.
• 18:55
  You know, and I think
• 18:57
  part of it is that, you know, that it's,
• 19:00
  it's, it's simply discovery,
• 19:01
  right? Like, what, what is it?
• 19:03
  Can I teach other people something new
• 19:05
  about it? You know, can I name it after
• 19:08
  myself? That one comes
• 19:09
  up a lot. So then we get to have really
• 19:10
  great questions about, you know, well,
• 19:12
  what should we call things? And what have
• 19:14
  people called things? And that's been
• 19:16
  great as well, because it allows you to
• 19:18
  have other conversations about like,
• 19:20
  you know, what is our relationship with
• 19:22
  animals, if we just name them after us,
• 19:25
  or if we name them after the
• 19:27
  environment, or, you know, is there a
• 19:29
  sense of, of ownership? And if so, maybe
• 19:31
  that's not bad that, you
• 19:32
  know, like, hey, that's,
• 19:33
  that's Canada's national tube word.
• 19:38
  Canada's national tube word. You know,
• 19:41
  it's, it's kind of, it's kind of fun that
• 19:44
  way. And of course, the new is always
• 19:46
  exciting. It's really great to show kids
• 19:50
  things. And it's also really amazing to
• 19:52
  show them why sometimes that
• 19:54
  identification is hard. I mean, as Heidi
• 19:57
  said, it might take five
• 19:58
  years because this creature
• 20:00
  either has features that are really hard
• 20:02
  to identify, or it looks like something
• 20:04
  we know, or it looks like something
• 20:06
  you've never seen before, right? Like
• 20:08
  begin to identify a purple sphere, you
• 20:12
  know, or a wiggly worm or, you know, like
• 20:15
  you it's, it's really
• 20:16
  cool to just engage in that.
• 20:18
  That process of this is new, how do we
• 20:22
  gather information on it? And I think
• 20:23
  it's really validating for kids,
• 20:25
  especially today, to learn that you can't
• 20:28
  just Google it, you can't ask someone
• 20:31
  else, you have to apply all those
• 20:33
  speaking skills, all those science
• 20:34
  skills, because there is no one else to
• 20:36
  ask, you got to learn it,
• 20:38
  you got to be sure of it.
• 20:39
  True. True. And to be honest, it's like
• 20:41
  there's a lot of people who have, who
• 20:43
  have, you know, built their careers on
• 20:46
  identifying new species and in the deep
• 20:48
  sea and being able to be taxonomist like
• 20:51
  specialists in that. I mean, like
• 20:53
  identifying a polychaete worm in the deep
• 20:55
  sea is near impossible to me, but
• 20:57
  somebody would really know who really
• 20:58
  knows worms is great at that. Yes, Heidi.
• 21:02
  Well, exactly to follow up on what you
• 21:04
  just said about worms, like sometimes you
• 21:06
  can get a sense from looking at it from
• 21:08
  the video, but I just wanted to build on
• 21:10
  what both of you Monica said and that the
• 21:12
  distinguishing features between different
• 21:15
  species of worms is often looking at, you
• 21:17
  know, this little feature on the side of
• 21:19
  its arm called the parapodia and then
• 21:21
  you've got a count how
• 21:22
  many crystals it has.
• 21:23
  And so all that deep sea tech tech is on
• 21:26
  me detailed work does have to happen and
• 21:28
  it's not something you can always tell
• 21:30
  them to know. And I also wanted to say
• 21:32
  the new discoveries can
• 21:34
  extend beyond new species often.
• 21:36
  We do things like you see new share new
• 21:40
  species range extensions, like say
• 21:42
  something from California and we didn't
• 21:44
  know it was that far up north and now
• 21:46
  we've changed that that range description
• 21:49
  and often also seen like new behaviors.
• 21:52
  I just documented things that are just so
• 21:54
  rare in the deep sea, like one of our
• 21:57
  favorite states right now, it hadn't
• 21:58
  really been cited in our waters before.
• 22:01
  And now we've seen hundreds of hours. And
• 22:05
  so the new can be in
• 22:07
  lots of different ways.
• 22:09
  And when you talk about sort of like new
• 22:11
  discoveries like this and you mentioned
• 22:13
  when we talked a couple weeks ago, you
• 22:15
  mentioned that there was a story of deep
• 22:18
  sea octopus mothers guarding their eggs,
• 22:21
  you know, for years without feeding. Like
• 22:23
  imagine that like they're just so focused
• 22:25
  on guarding their
• 22:25
  eggs that they won't eat.
• 22:27
  Like why are discoveries like this so
• 22:29
  important in
• 22:30
  understanding deep sea environments?
• 22:32
  Think discoveries like this are really
• 22:33
  important for the deep sea because it
• 22:35
  explains that they're operating on
• 22:37
  different timescales. So the geological
• 22:40
  things that I mentioned earlier on that
• 22:42
  seems to make these incredible habitats.
• 22:46
  You know, they've operated on geological
• 22:48
  timescales of thousands to hundreds of
• 22:50
  thousands of years. The animals sometimes
• 22:53
  can actually be these themselves like
• 22:55
  these corals and
• 22:56
  sponges old and slow growing.
• 23:00
  And then here we are coming along with
• 23:01
  our human activities which are changing
• 23:03
  the world rapidly. We've got, you know,
• 23:05
  the rise of deep sea fishing bottom
• 23:07
  contact crawling. We've got climate
• 23:10
  change. We've got all these things.
• 23:11
  And these animals aren't built to change
• 23:15
  on those fast timescales. And that's
• 23:17
  where the importance of providing the
• 23:19
  science by where these important places
• 23:21
  are, what their vulnerabilities are and,
• 23:24
  you know, looking towards conservation
• 23:27
  and for at least a
• 23:28
  sustainable management.
• 23:31
  So I think that's what kind of like the
• 23:34
  biggest takeaway is from these really
• 23:36
  neat discoveries is just we've got to
• 23:38
  think on a different. No, absolutely.
• 23:40
  Now, Monica, we when we talk about
• 23:43
  stories like the octopus, like in what
• 23:45
  they do and having as an example, does
• 23:48
  that help students emotionally connect
• 23:50
  with their marine life and with marine
• 23:52
  life and conservation?
• 23:54
  I think so. You know, it's it's really
• 23:57
  hard not to anthropomorphize, you know, a
• 24:00
  mother and her her babies, right? Like
• 24:02
  it's really hard not to do that. And I
• 24:03
  think in this case, it's one where we
• 24:05
  should because, you know, having that
• 24:07
  empathy for these creatures and the fact
• 24:10
  that they're working so hard to take care
• 24:12
  of their little ones, I think is really
• 24:14
  relatable for anyone and probably any
• 24:18
  species, you know, to a degree.
• 24:20
  And the other really important thing that
• 24:22
  I think it highlights, as I mentioned, as
• 24:24
  well as the environment is something that
• 24:26
  is so, so important. It's not just the
• 24:29
  creatures. It's how they're using that
• 24:31
  environment. And you know, you think
• 24:33
  about when we teach, you know, we teach
• 24:36
  about food chains or food webs.
• 24:38
  It always starts with the plants. Well,
• 24:41
  it should start before that. What's
• 24:43
  supporting the plants, the earth, the
• 24:45
  oceans, the water. And so here's an
• 24:47
  example where, you
• 24:48
  know, trawling the deep sea.
• 24:49
  You are doing destructive behaviors is
• 24:52
  going to ruin that environment, which is
• 24:55
  then going to make it difficult, if not
• 24:57
  impossible for these creatures to live.
• 24:59
  And so it's just widening that
• 25:01
  perspective that it's it's the whole
• 25:02
  earth. It's holistic. It's everything.
• 25:05
  It's not just, you know, the players on
• 25:07
  the surface of the the analogy. It's
• 25:10
  actually, you know, what's happening down
• 25:11
  there. And I mean, who doesn't love baby
• 25:14
  animals? I mean, you know, maybe others
• 25:17
  and birds. I still I feel birds really are the same.
• 25:18
  I still I feel birds really missed the
• 25:19
  mark on cute baby animals. But that's
• 25:21
  just me. You know, baby octopus are
• 25:23
  pretty darn cute. Yeah, I could imagine.
• 25:26
  Just be careful. The birders don't hear
• 25:28
  that because I'm sure there's
• 25:29
  some right. Who might have a.
• 25:31
  Who might have some notes. I don't know.
• 25:34
  I've between an octopus, a kitten and a
• 25:36
  baby bird. Yeah, I totally. Yeah, totally
• 25:39
  understand. Now, now Heidi, like this
• 25:42
  project is all about collaboration. We
• 25:44
  mentioned that at the beginning.
• 25:45
  You know, DFO Ocean Networks Canada,
• 25:48
  indigenous, indigenous nations and other
• 25:50
  partners. Why is collaboration such an
• 25:52
  important foundation for this project in
• 25:55
  this world? It's so
• 25:56
  important because it's a big space.
• 25:58
  So we have between either existing
• 26:03
  conservation measures or kind of plans or
• 26:07
  at least really important research areas
• 26:10
  over 160,000 square kilometers of like
• 26:15
  conservation area to study. And so that's
• 26:19
  a lot of work to do. So I mean, that to
• 26:22
  begin with is important.
• 26:24
  Yeah, I think also what's really
• 26:27
  important here is the main partners of
• 26:30
  the project are the Council of the
• 26:33
  Foundation and the New Chalmers Tribal
• 26:34
  Council. And they are part of our
• 26:37
  managing nations for two of our
• 26:39
  established marine protected areas. So
• 26:41
  it's a marine protected area is a marine
• 26:45
  protected area that has a chain of like
• 26:49
  sea mounts connected.
• 26:51
  And this one sea mount is so special. It
• 26:53
  comes all the way up to almost the
• 26:55
  surface. So from the depth almost in
• 26:57
  surface, you could see that there is
• 26:59
  incredible. And it's co-managed with the
• 27:01
  Council of the Foundation.
• 27:03
  And then we have the Tonguan Sea B.
• 27:06
  Smearing Protected Area. It itself is
• 27:09
  over 130,000 kilometers squared. And it
• 27:13
  is co-managed with the
• 27:14
  Council of the Nation.
• 27:20
  And it's also really important for us in
• 27:22
  respect to our indigenous partners that
• 27:24
  they should have the opportunity involved
• 27:27
  in the science throughout the whole
• 27:29
  process to help be able to make informed
• 27:31
  decisions as we go along.
• 27:33
  And that it's valuable for our indigenous
• 27:39
  partners to even think, yes, we could
• 27:41
  email with them, but I can't tell you how
• 27:43
  valuable it is to be at sea and have
• 27:44
  members and be able to talk about, do you
• 27:47
  think this is a priority or just to be
• 27:49
  involved? There's so
• 27:50
  much that happens at sea.
• 27:52
  And we saw a lot of value in that. And
• 27:55
  then I just wanted to highlight like our
• 27:57
  other partners, like our main goals
• 27:59
  really are I climb from this group and
• 28:01
  trying to change our
• 28:02
  relationship to the deep sea.
• 28:04
  So that's where Monica and her team comes
• 28:06
  in. And then we partner with the World
• 28:07
  Museum who accepts this specimen. So it's
• 28:10
  kind of a combination of this is the
• 28:12
  incredibly huge large space. It's going
• 28:14
  to take all of our shared work together.
• 28:16
  And we all have strengths that we can
• 28:18
  contribute. And that's important part of
• 28:21
  all of science is the more you guys have
• 28:23
  the more robust designs.
• 28:28
  Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Monica, you
• 28:29
  mentioned that one of the goals is to
• 28:30
  make sure exploration happens within the
• 28:32
  communities, not just around them. What
• 28:35
  does that look like in practice?
• 28:37
  In practice for us, it's it's looked like
• 28:39
  actually going to communities to engage
• 28:41
  with folks. So hosting local events where
• 28:45
  we actually connect with the ship in real
• 28:47
  time. So so being there so that, you
• 28:50
  know, eliminating that
• 28:51
  barrier of like, well, I don't know.
• 28:53
  Should I click on this link? Should I
• 28:54
  engage? Is it for me? When you're
• 28:56
  actually right there, it's like,
• 28:57
  absolutely, it's free. Yes, we want you
• 28:59
  engaged. Yes, we want you here.
• 29:01
  And then and then with beyond that, too,
• 29:04
  like engaging with the summer camps as a
• 29:07
  priority. So, you know, if we have more
• 29:10
  than one request, being able to say, we
• 29:13
  prioritize working with the indigenous
• 29:15
  communities in nature, nations first and
• 29:18
  engaging with their youth
• 29:19
  first, I think is really
• 29:23
  it's nice to say, you know, you get to
• 29:24
  come first, it's nice to to do that. And
• 29:27
  it's also, I think, empowering and
• 29:29
  helpful. At least the feedback that we've
• 29:31
  gotten has has been shaped that way,
• 29:34
  which is really great. And it's also been
• 29:37
  really cool for to experience them seeing
• 29:40
  their peers and relations and and mentors
• 29:43
  at sea, you know, that's
• 29:45
  really cool, too, to see,
• 29:47
  oh, I know that who that is, or that's my
• 29:49
  my my family member or I talk to them, I
• 29:51
  see them all the time. I mean, that's
• 29:53
  cool for anybody to to see folks, you
• 29:56
  know, on the boat. And so to really be
• 29:59
  able to bring that into community and to
• 30:01
  help facilitate that is, you know, gives
• 30:03
  you those warm fuzzies.
• 30:04
  Absolutely, absolutely. Now, Heidi, how
• 30:07
  does working alongside indigenous nations
• 30:09
  strengthen the
• 30:10
  scientific side of this project?
• 30:12
  Really strengthens this project and
• 30:14
  brings incredible value to this project.
• 30:17
  First of all, I just want to highlight
• 30:18
  some of the individuals that are part of
• 30:21
  our project are incredibly skilled
• 30:22
  biologists, mapping specialists,
• 30:27
  communicators, marine planners, and, you
• 30:30
  know, their individual efforts and
• 30:32
  excellence alone elevates their projects.
• 30:34
  Again, a fairly strong team is really
• 30:36
  important. But additionally, I wanted to
• 30:39
  frame that this project really was about
• 30:42
  providing a collaborative space for
• 30:45
  knowledge reproduction. So we're learning
• 30:49
  from each other. There's
• 30:50
  knowledge exchange happening.
• 30:51
  But like instead already the DC, you're
• 30:54
  learning a lot every time you go out. So
• 30:56
  here we are co producing the knowledge
• 30:58
  together. And it's being worked out in
• 31:00
  that way. And with all things like during
• 31:02
  the learning period, the more
• 31:04
  perspectives that you have when you're
• 31:07
  taking data and interpreting data, it can
• 31:10
  just improve the understanding.
• 31:11
  And then last but not least, I will just
• 31:14
  say that like indigenous nations do bring
• 31:16
  strong foundations of, you know, marine
• 31:18
  stewardship on governance and often more
• 31:23
  holistic ecosystem understanding this,
• 31:26
  you know, critical for shaping research
• 31:27
  projects and priorities and like making
• 31:31
  sure we're working together and shares
• 31:32
  that we're aligning with like,
• 31:33
  and how things and decision making goals
• 31:37
  that might be for this.
• 31:40
  Yeah, and Heidi, I'll just throw this
• 31:43
  back one at you as well. Like looking at
• 31:46
  the tools that you guys use to connect
• 31:48
  everybody with with the ocean and also
• 31:50
  just the scientific studies that you do
• 31:53
  use ROVs and other other tools.
• 31:55
  How has that changed an ability for a
• 31:58
  scientist to really be able to study
• 32:01
  these deep sea oceans that we probably
• 32:04
  couldn't have done? Like, I mean, there
• 32:06
  used to be, you know, people used to go
• 32:08
  in ROV, like, or not, or used to go in
• 32:10
  these these submarines, right, which
• 32:13
  could have been like at the beginning,
• 32:14
  quite dangerous as the technology was
• 32:17
  just developing and so
• 32:18
  forth and still quite expensive.
• 32:20
  Now we have ROVs, which allows, you know,
• 32:22
  people sitting in the ships, multiple
• 32:23
  people sitting around. We've heard, you
• 32:26
  know, you've heard from your live feeds,
• 32:27
  like people talking and like kind of
• 32:28
  joking around and you get that feel that,
• 32:30
  you know, you're you're watching TV, but
• 32:32
  you're really there, you know, like, how
• 32:34
  has that changed from a
• 32:35
  scientific perspective?
• 32:36
  Yeah, it's really changed the way we
• 32:38
  understand the oceans and what we do in
• 32:42
  studying our oceans. And so it's
• 32:44
  everything from, yeah, I would have to
• 32:46
  say things like remotely
• 32:48
  operated vehicles or have.
• 32:52
  Sorry, I just told you a word.
• 32:54
  Yeah, no worries.
• 32:57
  What was I saying? Oh, yeah.
• 33:00
  Sorry. Okay.
• 33:02
  No worries.
• 33:03
  Like, remotely operated vehicles or ROVs
• 33:06
  in particular have really changed how we
• 33:08
  do science. We used to learn about the
• 33:11
  deep sea a lot through the activities
• 33:12
  such as dredging and trawling and being
• 33:15
  able to have this like really visually
• 33:18
  orientated detail orientated tool that we
• 33:22
  can send you to the deep sea for no one's
• 33:25
  down there so long periods of time.
• 33:27
  And what the incredible technology we can
• 33:30
  figure out like placement and where this
• 33:32
  ROV is into like centimeters, you know,
• 33:36
  on the floor so we can make it repeatable
• 33:38
  we can make it really precise and
• 33:41
  accurate and be able to see all that.
• 33:44
  So it's been a major breakthrough and
• 33:46
  like these are these they're essentially
• 33:48
  robots with high definition.
• 33:49
  They bought it arms. They've got a range
• 33:52
  of centers on this. They're telling us
• 33:54
  the temperature, the pressure, the
• 33:55
  oxygen, the salinity.
• 33:58
  And then fiber optic cables were like a
• 34:01
  major breakthrough because not only does
• 34:03
  this incredible tool have all this but
• 34:05
  it's feeding it up to us
• 34:07
  on the surface on the ship.
• 34:10
  And so we're watching in real time. And
• 34:11
  what's my favorite thing to watch is like
• 34:14
  2000 meters below us. I can tell the ROV
• 34:18
  pilot and I want that thing
• 34:19
  on the sea floor picked up.
• 34:21
  They're watching pick up this joystick
• 34:22
  and start moving it around and then the
• 34:25
  arm on the ROV starts moving around and
• 34:27
  they can pick it up. We're getting my
• 34:29
  feeds and then someone who's watching it
• 34:31
  and you know, a different country or on
• 34:34
  the coast can be like, hey, I also want
• 34:36
  the thing beside it and they message us
• 34:38
  back if they're watching it in lifetime.
• 34:40
  Like it's just absolutely incredible. And
• 34:43
  again, now not only is that technology
• 34:47
  incredible but as a result, scientists
• 34:50
  can now like document more fragile
• 34:55
  ecosystems and that's what's really
• 34:57
  important part of conservation.
• 34:58
  So things like cold water corals are and
• 35:02
  class punches and those sort of things in
• 35:05
  their natural state where they're able to
• 35:07
  better understand species interactions or
• 35:10
  better able to
• 35:11
  understand species behaviors.
• 35:13
  And then I just wanted to say it's kind
• 35:17
  of it's changed it. It's still
• 35:19
  exploratory and it's still new and
• 35:21
  exciting, but it's also making it more
• 35:23
  systematic, more, more interdisciplinary
• 35:27
  in a lot of ways and we can ask more
• 35:29
  questions and like higher quality data
• 35:33
  sets and more complex things.
• 35:35
  And all of this is just really important
• 35:39
  because it's still the least understood
• 35:41
  place on our planet. So these
• 35:44
  technological
• 35:45
  advances have really changed.
• 35:48
  Yeah, we're learning so much.
• 35:52
  Absolutely. And I find too, you know,
• 35:54
  when when we look at how just technology
• 35:57
  has changed over over time, you know,
• 36:00
  like when I was a kid, we didn't have
• 36:02
  these remotely operated vehicles.
• 36:04
  We didn't have this technology that you
• 36:06
  can live stream it and you know, just so
• 36:07
  the world can see, you know, we did have
• 36:10
  like, like certain things that we were
• 36:12
  able to do like video games and stuff
• 36:14
  like that that we were able to play.
• 36:16
  And I feel like our OVs kind of directly
• 36:18
  relate kids to this in terms of like you
• 36:21
  can just hide as you were saying, you can
• 36:23
  collect specimens, you can use the arms
• 36:25
  and stuff just with like a more
• 36:28
  sophisticated remote control, you know,
• 36:31
  that you can actually be able to to
• 36:33
  manipulate these things.
• 36:34
  Monica, you mentioned in our earlier pre
• 36:37
  interview, you know, that this is like a
• 36:39
  really good way to connect with the kids
• 36:41
  in terms of like, hey, look, you have
• 36:42
  video games, you know, you're, you know,
• 36:45
  building things in different like in
• 36:47
  Sims, I think I'm aging myself or there's
• 36:50
  another video game that I can't remember
• 36:52
  that my kids, you know, play all the time.
• 36:53
  And and but it's it's like you can almost
• 36:56
  directly see that how does this kind of
• 36:59
  show kids that, you know, marine bio,
• 37:01
  like the the study of science doesn't
• 37:03
  always have to be leading towards that
• 37:05
  marine biology as a science, but also you
• 37:08
  could be an engineer like many people at
• 37:10
  Ocean Networks Canada is and as well as
• 37:14
  as you know, people at DFO.
• 37:16
  How does that broaden the sort of the
• 37:17
  spectrum in terms of what
• 37:19
  you can do within this field?
• 37:21
  Well, I think you touched on it very
• 37:24
  well. It shows that there's so much
• 37:26
  diversity of work. I mean, we've talked
• 37:28
  about how we've had different
• 37:31
  perspectives on on building knowledge.
• 37:33
  There's different ways of
• 37:34
  learning different things.
• 37:35
  But in order for these expeditions to get
• 37:37
  off the ground, so to speak, you need so
• 37:40
  many other types of expertise as well.
• 37:43
  Like we just you can't do this alone. You
• 37:45
  can't throw yourself in a rowboat and
• 37:46
  paddle out and do everything.
• 37:48
  And so to be able to show the peer
• 37:50
  diversity of of people and systems and
• 37:54
  teamwork that you need in order to make
• 37:56
  this happen, I think is really valuable
• 37:58
  for students. It's also really cool to
• 38:00
  show them that silence
• 38:02
  silence isn't excuse me.
• 38:04
  No, you're okay. Let's say that again.
• 38:06
  Let's say it's really cool to show them
• 38:09
  that silence science isn't siloed. You
• 38:12
  can do things like video games, art,
• 38:15
  photography, and that contributes to
• 38:19
  science. You know, you're not going to
• 38:21
  know what a creature is if you
• 38:22
  can't take good photos of it.
• 38:24
  So, you know, your photography can help
• 38:26
  you become a really great, you know,
• 38:29
  maybe biologist, maybe taxonomist,
• 38:31
  whatever to identify this creature.
• 38:34
  Playing a video game means that you're
• 38:36
  actually really good at spatial
• 38:38
  awareness, hands eye coordination,
• 38:41
  machine response and learning.
• 38:44
  All of those things are needed in order
• 38:45
  for us to to learn anything, right? I
• 38:49
  mean, you know, think about a scientist
• 38:51
  in a lab. Well, who built the lab? Where
• 38:53
  does the classwork come from? Who's
• 38:55
  categorizing the equipment? And so the
• 38:57
  ROV and playing video games is just a
• 38:59
  really great example of that. And it
• 39:02
  also, I think, makes it really clear that
• 39:05
  science can be for anybody who's
• 39:08
  interested. That all paths, you know,
• 39:10
  they used to lead to Rome.
• 39:11
  Now they lead to science.
• 39:13
  I love that. I love that. You know, one
• 39:17
  thing for me when I when I'm
• 39:19
  communicating through the podcast and
• 39:20
  talking to the audience and just saying,
• 39:23
  hey, you know what, as we discover more
• 39:24
  species, we learn more about these
• 39:26
  environments like the deep sea and other
• 39:28
  environments and we're
• 39:29
  able to protect it more.
• 39:31
  Now, how do you like how do you
• 39:33
  discoveries like, you know, sponge reefs
• 39:34
  and and glass sponge reefs and and skate
• 39:37
  nurseries like those kind of grounds and
• 39:40
  those types of environments, they can
• 39:42
  directly influence whether something is
• 39:44
  protected or not. So like, how does
• 39:46
  science from this project support
• 39:48
  conservation planning?
• 39:50
  Yeah, I can talk about this from the my
• 39:52
  lens specifically of scientists at the
• 39:56
  issue of missions in Canada. So I'm a
• 39:59
  biologist that is part of the science
• 40:01
  team. And then there's another team of
• 40:03
  mission scientists in the best of the
• 40:05
  mission management and policy.
• 40:07
  Yeah. And so as part of the science team,
• 40:09
  we're going to take what we learned from
• 40:11
  all of these expeditions, these dives,
• 40:16
  all the amazing things we have. And we
• 40:19
  try to get it, analyze it, and find the
• 40:23
  patterns that describe where these
• 40:25
  habitats are, what the vulnerabilities
• 40:27
  are, whether they're key players to it,
• 40:30
  those sorts of things.
• 40:31
  And then we try and pass on that science
• 40:33
  advice about it towards the ocean
• 40:35
  management. And then from there, they go
• 40:38
  through their policy processes to
• 40:40
  potentially do things like establishing
• 40:41
  areas, which involves, you know,
• 40:44
  consulting with the public, with the
• 40:46
  stations, looking at the feasibility of
• 40:49
  trade off with stakeholders, say, like
• 40:51
  the fishing industry,
• 40:53
  those sorts of things.
• 40:54
  So that's what the processes from the
• 40:57
  fishing and fishing, yeah, on the lens.
• 40:59
  And then there might be other processes,
• 41:01
  for example, there are indigenous
• 41:03
  conservation efforts, right. And that's
• 41:07
  another strength of this collaboration is
• 41:09
  that the knowledge is going up multiple
• 41:11
  channels for what we're finding.
• 41:15
  Yeah. And Monica, from an education
• 41:17
  standpoint, is that communicated to the
• 41:20
  communities and the students who are
• 41:22
  watching this, like, you know, from
• 41:24
  discovery to conservation, there are a
• 41:27
  number of different paths that, you know,
• 41:30
  conservation can be done and go through.
• 41:31
  Is that is that communicated towards the
• 41:33
  students and communities and how do they
• 41:34
  react to these types of processes?
• 41:37
  Well, I sure hope it's being communicated
• 41:39
  to them, you know, you're never really
• 41:41
  sure, but you're so and you know, some of
• 41:44
  the evidence that that we have that that
• 41:45
  is the case is just how how action
• 41:49
  oriented the students are after we talk
• 41:51
  to them, you know, like, the conservation
• 41:53
  effort isn't just a lecture at someone,
• 41:56
  hey, you got to do this, you should
• 41:57
  behave this way, don't forget to.
• 41:59
  It's actually where the students go,
• 42:01
  well, I'm going to do this now, or I'm
• 42:03
  going to make this change, I'm going to
• 42:05
  do this action, or I can't wait to tell
• 42:07
  my my so and so about this or that or the
• 42:10
  next thing. And so it's more than just
• 42:12
  this, like, passive, do better.
• 42:15
  It's a, hey, that's really cool. I think
• 42:17
  I could do better, or I could do more,
• 42:19
  you know, it doesn't
• 42:20
  always have to be punitive.
• 42:21
  So I think, you know, in that sense, it
• 42:24
  is working, we are able to communicate to
• 42:27
  them how, you know, exciting and
• 42:29
  important it is. And then they're able to
• 42:31
  take that and be at least a little bit
• 42:34
  empowered and at the
• 42:35
  very least inspired by it.
• 42:37
  Yeah, no, I love that. And just to add to
• 42:40
  this to like another question for you,
• 42:42
  Monica is, you know, it's, it's one thing
• 42:45
  I found interesting is when you like
• 42:47
  focus on turning data into stories as a
• 42:50
  storyteller myself, you know, I find that
• 42:52
  interesting, just so that people can
• 42:53
  understand a lot of the stuff that comes
• 42:55
  out of of the live streams and the RV
• 42:58
  sessions is can be complex for a lot of
• 43:00
  people to understand how do you turn that
• 43:03
  type of data that those type of of of discoveries and how do you turn that data into a
• 43:06
  of discoveries into, you know, something
• 43:09
  that's complex into something simple that
• 43:11
  people can understand and enjoy that that
• 43:13
  type of story, because there's nothing
• 43:15
  like talking about data in the table. I
• 43:17
  mean, to really get people interested. So
• 43:19
  how do you take that and be like, okay,
• 43:21
  like this is this is
• 43:22
  what the real story is here.
• 43:24
  Well, I think that's, as you said, what's
• 43:27
  the real story that the data is telling
• 43:29
  us and using that as your as your point
• 43:32
  to to bring people in and I'll use an
• 43:35
  example specific to
• 43:36
  Ocean Networks Canada.
• 43:38
  We have instrumentation on BC ferries.
• 43:41
  And if you're an Islander or a Vancouver,
• 43:43
  right, you're familiar with BC ferries,
• 43:44
  at least a name. And we're all familiar
• 43:47
  with that back and forth and back and
• 43:48
  forth and back and forth.
• 43:49
  And what Ocean Networks Canada is doing
• 43:51
  is actually sampling the water as the
• 43:53
  ferries go back and forth and back and
• 43:54
  forth. And yeah, the individual water
• 43:57
  sample might tell you temperature
• 43:58
  salinity, maybe a bit of chlorophyll,
• 44:00
  which on its own, maybe
• 44:02
  isn't really anything.
• 44:03
  But in the whole story, we can see that
• 44:06
  the ocean has seasons just the same way
• 44:08
  that the land has seasons. There's a
• 44:10
  growth, there's a blooming of plants,
• 44:13
  there's a die off of plants, there's
• 44:15
  summer, there's winter,
• 44:16
  there's fall within the ocean.
• 44:18
  And so to be able to make that connection
• 44:20
  that, you know, not only are we looking
• 44:23
  forward to a nice June summer coming some
• 44:25
  of the animals and creatures there as
• 44:28
  well to make that approachable or, you
• 44:31
  know, using the very example again,
• 44:33
  crossing from Vancouver Island to
• 44:36
  Vancouver, where you get to the Fraser
• 44:37
  and you get that that brown water hidden
• 44:39
  up in water, what's going
• 44:41
  on there, what's happening.
• 44:42
  And so, you know, taking a simple density
• 44:44
  tank and show it here's some freshwater,
• 44:46
  here's some salt water, look at how they
• 44:48
  interact. And all of a sudden, what was
• 44:50
  this kind of mystery like,
• 44:52
  oh, what is that? I don't know.
• 44:53
  Moving on. You all of a sudden feel like
• 44:55
  a total expert or at least the kids seem
• 44:57
  to feel like a total expert. And and
• 44:59
  that's that's, you know, data becoming
• 45:02
  real. And that's what is really fun is
• 45:04
  when it's not just numbers.
• 45:06
  It's not just because it's, oh, that's
• 45:09
  the Fraser River, which is mostly fresh,
• 45:11
  hitting the ocean, which is mostly salty,
• 45:14
  and they don't interact right away. So
• 45:15
  that's that's when it the data becomes
• 45:18
  real, you know, I love that. I love that.
• 45:21
  Now, Heidi, if there's one thing, you
• 45:23
  know, you wish like every listener that's
• 45:25
  listening to this would understand about
• 45:27
  the deep ocean after hearing this
• 45:29
  episode, what would it be because like
• 45:31
  deep sea is all over the news these days
• 45:34
  for one reason or another, we don't have to get into that.
• 45:36
  But, you know, what do you hope that
• 45:39
  people really understand about the deep
• 45:41
  sea and kind of get from this episode? I
• 45:43
  hope that people get an understanding
• 45:45
  that it's not just this remote, dark,
• 45:48
  scary place that it is actually just
• 45:52
  writing incredible place on our planet.
• 45:54
  on our planet. And that actually, I don't
• 45:57
  know if I've touched on in enough this
• 45:58
  episode, but not only is it important for
• 46:02
  its diversity of life, but the devotion
• 46:05
  really does a lot for us as humans and
• 46:07
  we're connected to it. So yes, it's
• 46:09
  everything from the, you know, connecting
• 46:12
  to the animals that we see and like
• 46:14
  loving them for being diverse and
• 46:17
  providing that, you know, these are
• 46:19
  related to our food sources.
• 46:20
  These are habitats in the deep sea that
• 46:23
  have done things for us like climate
• 46:25
  regulation are helping us fight climate
• 46:29
  change. And so we are really connected to
• 46:31
  the ocean, even things like genetics
• 46:34
  research has been incredible
• 46:37
  discoveries for the deep sea.
• 46:38
  So, yeah, I just want people to feel
• 46:41
  connection to it. And I think that's the
• 46:43
  biggest goal of this program is that it's
• 46:47
  not just a website, a blind, we want it
• 46:50
  in the blinds and we actually want it in
• 46:52
  your hearts as well.
• 46:53
  Yeah, so yeah, I would love if people
• 46:58
  wanted to learn more, if you go to
• 47:01
  www.machin.com that's our website and a
• 47:06
  lot of videos, we have a lot of pictures,
• 47:09
  these are all up for grabs for people to
• 47:10
  see. And you can get a better
• 47:12
  understanding of the incredible life of
• 47:14
  the blind and the deaf.
• 47:17
  It's phenomenal.
• 47:18
  Love it. Love it. Now, Monica, I'm going
• 47:20
  to ask you a slightly different question.
• 47:22
  It's more of if there's one thing that
• 47:24
  you hope like students take away from
• 47:26
  participating in this project, whether
• 47:28
  they're in person with you or even just
• 47:30
  online. What would
• 47:32
  you hope that would be?
• 47:33
  I hope it's what students take away from
• 47:35
  this is that not only do they have an
• 47:37
  opportunity to engage in science, they
• 47:39
  have a voice in science. They have a
• 47:41
  voice coming up that they can say to our
• 47:45
  leaders leadership, whoever it is,
• 47:47
  whatever time, know the
• 47:48
  deep sea is important.
• 47:49
  We've got to look after it. We need to
• 47:50
  take care of it. I hope
• 47:51
  that their career choices.
• 47:54
  And also promote like, you know,
• 47:56
  renewable energies. I want to learn
• 47:59
  renewable energy as my job skill and I
• 48:02
  want to look at what the ocean is doing
• 48:04
  because I'm into conservation. So I guess
• 48:06
  for me, the real actionable piece that I
• 48:08
  hope to take away from this is that they
• 48:10
  have a choice and they have a choice
• 48:14
  to shape what conservation looks like, to
• 48:16
  shape what their engagement in the ocean
• 48:18
  looks like. And that, you know, like
• 48:20
  Heidi said, we don't necessarily have to
• 48:22
  use what people have said before us. You
• 48:24
  know, the ocean, the deep ocean isn't a
• 48:27
  scary, deep, dark, achy place. It's an
• 48:30
  environment with really cool creatures
• 48:33
  that are just phenomenal.
• 48:36
  I love that. I love that. Now, just for
• 48:37
  this is the ones for both of you. We'll
• 48:39
  start with you, Heidi.
• 48:40
  What gives both, like what gives you hope
• 48:43
  for the future of ocean exploration and
• 48:45
  ocean education in Canada?
• 48:47
  I have to say I'm excited because there
• 48:50
  are some government initiatives as my
• 48:53
  government representatives.
• 48:55
  Canada's 2030 Nature Strategy, it
• 48:58
  emphasizes that we are going to use the
• 49:00
  best available science and knowledge
• 49:02
  alongside indigenous leadership
• 49:04
  partnerships to help in the worst
• 49:07
  biotaverse sea loss.
• 49:08
  So this is really incredible momentum for
• 49:11
  the deep sea exploration. I think it
• 49:12
  recognizes that, you know, we can't
• 49:15
  effectively protect what we don't fully
• 49:17
  understand moving forward.
• 49:20
  And that it's also incredible because
• 49:23
  we're committed to protecting 30% of our
• 49:25
  oceans by 2030. And so that's a cool,
• 49:30
  cool that's driving investment
• 49:32
  partnerships,
• 49:32
  innovation and also in education.
• 49:36
  And then last but not least, we also have
• 49:38
  Canada's ocean literacy.
• 49:41
  Last but not least, we also have Canada's
• 49:44
  ocean literacy strategy. I
• 49:47
  don't know why that's hard to say.
• 49:49
  I think that people to the ocean, the
• 49:51
  storytelling outreach, learning
• 49:53
  opportunities and it's really important.
• 49:57
  And that's what we're trying to do, but
• 49:59
  we're trying to build up our
• 50:01
  understanding and support.
• 50:02
  And especially.
• 50:06
  That's fantastic. And Monica yourself.
• 50:10
  I think just I hope the future is one
• 50:12
  that is ocean looking at one that
• 50:14
  recognizes that Canada has the largest
• 50:16
  coastline in the world. I
• 50:18
  mean, we've got ocean everywhere.
• 50:21
  And so getting people to just engage in
• 50:24
  that in whatever way is accessible and
• 50:27
  appropriate for them is really amazing.
• 50:30
  If it's, you know, if it's not within
• 50:32
  travel distance, engaging with us online,
• 50:36
  either through ONC or projects like this.
• 50:38
  If it is within travel distance, you
• 50:40
  know, treating it like a relative, at
• 50:42
  least visiting once a year, you know.
• 50:45
  Exactly. Ladies, this has been
• 50:48
  phenomenal. I really appreciate you
• 50:49
  taking the time and putting in the work
• 50:51
  like just to help us understand more
• 50:53
  about deep deep and and it's important.
• 50:55
  But also the work that you put into the
• 50:57
  project. It's wonderful to see people
• 51:00
  being able to be connected to the deep
• 51:03
  sea as as you guys as you both do and as
• 51:05
  your project and your and all your
• 51:07
  collaborators do and all
• 51:08
  the people who participate.
• 51:09
  So everybody involved. Thank you so much.
• 51:11
  And we appreciate you taking the time
• 51:12
  here to spend some time with us. Really
• 51:14
  appreciate it. On behalf
• 51:16
  of you, can I say thank you.
• 51:20
  Let go. I love and the best. Love it.
• 51:25
  Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you very
• 51:27
  much, ladies. Appreciate it. Thank you,
• 51:28
  Monica and Heidi, for joining us on
• 51:30
  today's episode of the How
• 51:31
  to Protect the Ocean podcast.
• 51:33
  What a great way to close out the special
• 51:35
  series with Ocean Networks Canada. Look,
• 51:38
  the deep sea can feel distant, mysterious
• 51:40
  and disconnected from our everyday lives.
• 51:43
  But as we heard today, it plays a major
• 51:46
  role in how our planet works.
• 51:48
  And the more we explore it, the more we
• 51:50
  realize how much there still is to learn.
• 51:54
  I want to thank Ocean Networks Canada for
• 51:55
  collaborating with me on this series,
• 51:58
  Surfacing Secrets Explore
• 51:59
  the Ocean, Know the Planet.
• 52:00
  This series has been about showing how
• 52:02
  ocean observing technology, education and
• 52:05
  research help us better understand the
• 52:07
  ocean so we can make a
• 52:09
  better decision for the planet.
• 52:11
  And of course, thank you for listening to
• 52:13
  this episode of the How to Protect the
• 52:15
  Ocean podcast. If you enjoyed this
• 52:17
  series, please share it with someone who
• 52:19
  loves the ocean and works in ocean
• 52:21
  conservation and just wants to understand
• 52:24
  what is happening beneath the surface.
• 52:26
  I'm Andrew Lewin. Thank you so much for
• 52:28
  joining me on today's episode of the How
• 52:30
  to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a
• 52:32
  great day. We'll talk to you next time
• 52:33
  and happy conservation.