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Repairing Things, Rebuilding Communities with Martine Postma · Imagine The Good

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Imagine the Good Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever watched something or heard an idea that makes you want to tell everyone?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because it ignites hope and inspiration for their beauty and goodness, and you want to expand it in the world?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the catalyst for this podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Having conversations with inspiring people, elevating goodness, and reimagining what we can be together.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Robin Marr, and I'm here with my husband and co-host, Jason Dorland.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Join us as we explore ideas, stories, and conversations that invite us to live with greater purpose, compassion, courage, and connection.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Today, we're joined by someone who is living that invitation.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll explore what their story might mean for the way we live, work, and relate to one another.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: We are delighted to have Martine Posma, the founder of Repair Cafe, joining us today.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Martine is a journalist from Amsterdam who founded the Repair Cafe 17 years ago to help keep things out of the landfill.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's going strong now, 4,000 repair cafes globally in 40 countries.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So very excited to be speaking with you today, Martine.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, Martine, can you bring our viewers and listeners along with how you, working as a journalist at the time, got the inspiration to do this and how it all began?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I I was a journalist and I wrote about sustainability, more so specifically about waste reduction and waste prevention, but it's it's an issue close to my heart.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And at a certain moment I wanted to do more than only write about it in an objective way.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to really actively help to change people's behavior and wanted to stimulate them to stop creating all this waste.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I started thinking, why do we do this?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And why do we throw things away that are not, in my opinion, garbage at all?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that one of the reasons is that we no longer make repairs.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I started thinking about that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And well, one of the reasons is that we there are so many new products in in the stores nowadays, and they're not so expensive to buy.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So in many cases it's more attractive and economically more makes more sense to buy something new than to have an old item repaired by a professional, because a professional will charge an hourly rate, which will in many cases be higher than the price of a new product in the shop.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and in this situation, a professional repairer cannot survive.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So there are fewer and fewer repairs in in the street, which means that you don't come across repairing anymore.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this combined with all these new products that look attractive and that you're uh stimulated to buy in advertising and they come to your doorstep without you even having to to go out, so you can order them, and it's so the infrastructure for getting a new product is optimized to the max.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um whereas the infrastructure for repairing has slightly well has has become worse and is disappearing.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought I want to to bring it back in our daily lives because it's the only way or one of the ways to start creating less waste.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So then I thought I knew that in all communities there are still some people who know how to make repairs, who have been doing this for decades and who like doing it, uh, whose biggest hobby it is, who have helped their entire family and are always fixing everything.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought if I bring those people together in the community with people who have broken items, then we can do something for the environment.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: We can save waste and um show people that there is something like repairing, and we can also do something for the community by bringing people together and giving them a good time.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I started this uh in October 2009, so almost 17 years ago, and the this was a one-off event just for for testing it out, but it it became a great success, and almost a hundred people showed up carrying big bags with lots of stuff, and there was a vibrant atmosphere, there was repairing going on everywhere, and people talking about the things that they brought and how they didn't like to throw them away, but so it was an eye-opening experience for me, but for the public too, because many people liked it, and afterwards they started approaching me and they asked if this was going to be a regular event.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Could they come back next week?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because they had much more to be fixed.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I thought uh I need to make this bigger.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So then I started to think about um creating a network.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I started the foundation, I did fundraising, and I thought of a way to help more people at the same time to start this up, and that was to create um a starter kit which tells you how to start your own repair cafe.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I did.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote uh a manual using the experience that I gained myself in this first event on how to find volunteers to join, how to select a venue that's suitable, how to create publicity, which tools to collect, uh, etc.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And over the years this has grown to be a very comprehensive uh starter kit with lots of information and additional documents like posters and flyers and logo files that you can use in your uh local communication.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So basically it's it contains everything you should know about how to start your own repair cafe.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I've been spreading for well, ever since.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you have a lot of company with the enthusiasm for what's happening in that space.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh feeling a bit neurotic about how much I disdain throwing things away with the waste that's involved in in our systems.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I recall we used to be able to repair our kettles with local services, and it would cost more than buying a new kettle, but it still felt better to do that, and then those services disappeared because of the way our systems of supply operate with cheap new goods.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's I know I remember several years ago, our daughter was taking guitar lessons at a local community, and I saw a sign for repair cafe, and had I and came back and and brought our juicer to the event, but it was so lovely, and then realized that that there was one even closer, and I so I started volunteering and the enthusiasm with which people who are volunteering, they there's a buzz and excitement to be helping people and to be figuring things out and to be sharing skills.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that the atmosphere and community is such a beautiful part of the whole experience in terms of bringing people together, the gratitude that people appreciate.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: The last one, a woman came, she had her coffee maker fixed, and she was so grateful, and she began to explain why she was so grateful, but she was crying so hard, we couldn't understand what she said.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So before she left, I came back to her and I said, I really want to hear your story.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And her husband, who had passed 10 years earlier, had made her coffee every morning with this coffee maker, and she wanted to be able to engage the ritual of what he did for her.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so restoring that just was full of so much meaning and and gratitude for her.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm so struck by how grateful people are and and how happy people are to be a part of this.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is a beautiful movement where there's so much loneliness and isolation, the the feeling of goodwill and generosity that comes is a beautiful part of the the whole movement.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, this still amazes me too, or it still touches me every time I go to a repair cafe and I it it it happens all the time.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's and for me this yeah, this is still special, and my reasons for starting it were environmental, but uh directly at the start of the first repair cafe, it appeared to be a very social thing too.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And these beautiful conversations they they happen all the time, and people are so grateful and so happy, and the volunteers are so grateful to be able to help someone, and they're also proud to share their skills and to feel to feel useful.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there are many reasons for people to to start a repair cafe, and part of the reasons are are for the environment or activism or against a throwaway mentality, but the other side is just as important, the social side and the community aspect, that's really yeah, it still touches me.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's that's one of the things I noticed.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: We watched a few news segments on YouTube of other in other countries where it's the same phenomenon every time.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's one of my questions for you is you know, it was activism that that began that was sort of the birth of the repair cafe.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: What's is there anything that's surprised you in that in that uh it almost seems like yes, it is about getting stuff repaired, yes, it is a free, very generous offer, but it it seems that in all the interviews we watch that it takes on something quite different.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I wonder if that surprised you no longer, but um I know now know that that this is what it does, but in the beginning it certainly surprised me because that was not my objective.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it's yeah, it turns out to be a very personal thing and very people are emotionally involved.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And these groups, the the repair cafe volunteers, they many many repair cafes have existed for a long time already.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Many celebrate their 10th or or even 15th anniversary.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So these are groups that stay together and and develop and evolve, and they become friends.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the they are groups who who look out for each other.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when one person falls ill, then the others go to visit, or they so it's it's it's a warm community in itself.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really, really special.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we see it happening everywhere.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really grateful for that.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I've certainly experienced that.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And just human goodness when we when we experience the the generosity, and it's just such an in the moment feeling of of what we can be together.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so it really is a beautiful movement that it extends to the earth with the the care to be conscientious about how we use things, but to people, and it's just it's a beautiful example of a community that's focused on generosity and and the gratitude.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Our our last episode was on gratitude, and uh we we talked about the pairing of how gratitude and generosity is like a feedback loop, and so it's beautiful to see that in action in a very practical way with what's happening in these spaces.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's also a perfect example of what we had in mind when we started this show this idea of imagine the good.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: We was trying to imagine individuals wherever around the world who have an idea, they have the gumption enough to start it, and and and it spreads good and it brings people together, it creates community, provides a needed service.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: In so many ways, you and your and the repair cafe are the poster child for what we had in mind when we began this notion of imagine the good.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's it just ticks every box.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: And again, back to the watching some of these news segments.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there were no coffee, no coffee makers, but in almost every instance where like jewelry is one of the things people can come and have repair.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And it was very touching to watch people see family jewelry that had been passed down for generations, to have it fixed and given another life, and then to hear individuals share the history, the story behind that individual piece of jewelry and just the emotion that it evoked.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: It really is Yeah, it's just so touching, but it's also such a commentary on on the importance of connection and how, yes, it's about repairing things, yes, it's about keeping things out of the out of the landfill, and those are terrific.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: But it almost seems more so, it's about bringing people together and creating community and sharing stories, and yeah, I just think it's it's such a social experiment almost in terms of the impact because it's consistent uh from city to city, country to country, nation to nation.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: It it doesn't matter uh of the language or the culture, the same emotions are of appreciation and and just the the sentiment that is evoked.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's really quite powerful.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we've noticed that that there have been educational initiatives that have also been spurred on by by the Recare Cafe, that students are learning to build skills and shift mindset about what's possible for them and how they approach things, something that was very much a past of communities past where we prepared our own clothing or fixed things that that uh I find that very exciting as well in terms of the creativity and the resourcefulness that is being brought into the educational space with that.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's your what's your experience of of how that's evolving as well?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we definitely need a lot more repair education for if we want to make the shift to a more sustainable society, we need to to be able to repair products not only now but in the future.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And many repairers in Repair Cafe are well over 50 at least.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So these are the people who have the skills and the experience and uh and also who have the time to to do volunteer work.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: But we need to transfer these skills to a younger generation so that they can make repairs in the future too.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to harvest the um repair skills that are now uh still present and to avoid that they die out.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: So i i in following that vein, do you find that uh that youth children who who come to these events or where it's incorporated in the schools, you know, it's not a video game or it's not some sort of electronic, but it w from what I could see i in the in the mini documentaries was that children were really drawn to this notion of problem solving and trying to figure out.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also many kids nowadays don't get the chance to to tinker because parents are very protective and they won't let them handle tools because they're afraid they might get hurt.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they might get hurt when you use a hammer, you can hammer your thumb, but you'll learn from it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as it's not a severe injury, there's no problem.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: So so mm, yeah, I think it's good if if children learn to to work with their hands more and to try to solve an an actual problem which is before them, not in a video game or not on a on a phone, but um but an actual product and it it stimulates your creativity.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: When you have to to solve a problem in in a product, you need to to have well, you don't have much space to to work around it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: It it if you want to repair something, you need to watch closely and to try to find a solution for this specific problem in this specific place.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you Yeah, it takes a lot of creativity.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's very good for younger generations to to learn that.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think the the fact that it's tactile, that it there's that you engage with it on a physical level, I think I think that ramps it up even more.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like normally it would be a screen or a gadget in the hand, but when you see these these kids pulling electronics apart, it it it almost becomes more attractive or more appealing or or engaging because they get to interact with it on a physical level, not just visually.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: We my experience is is also that kids love the repair cafe, and we have a special starter kit for repair cafes to organize lessons in schools.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a series of lessons where they they prepare the kids, they give a preparatory lesson about repairing and about waste, and then the kids are invited to uh find broken items in their home and to bring them to the school, and it can be their toys or their bicycle or their backpack or some other personal belongings, and then the repair cafe come the repair cafe volunteers come into the classroom and they have a repair cafe in the classroom.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And these events are very much uh they're great fun.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the kids really love the fact that they can join in and that they can actually see what's going to happen, and they can they can take up a needle themselves or a screwdriver or and they can benefit from the result when the repair succeeds and it's their own toy or their own clothing or backpack or bicycle, then they can use it again.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they see the result and they it motivates them for well a different lifestyle, I hope.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it was clear watching the look on this young boy who fixed his own bike, and he was so proud, showing the news anchor the how he had fixed it, and then it worked, and just the you know, the joy coming out of this young kid, the sense of accomplishment, it was palpable, really something to see.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's beautiful.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think we we need a lot of more more of that kind of educational experience.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was interesting to see as well that it the repair caffe at a university level, repair cafe participants were helping engineers look at how to design products that allows them to be more repairable.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because if using for the the bar was it barista, the uh the coffee maker?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um the coffee maker.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: The I think it's the barista.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and so using screws instead of glue and allowing parts, the covering to be detachable so you can easily access the the um mechanics underneath.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the feedback from repair cafe participants who are fixing trying to fix stuff to the engineers because they're not as acquainted with the issues with with repair.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that collaboration at a university uh level as well for companies that are interested in making products.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That um are moving away from obsolescence and are repairable.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: Circular economy.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Economy.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Is that did that come out of your initiative?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it was there already.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was there before?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just another name for uh well first you had environment, then it became sustainability, now it's circularity.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I believe it's it's basically the same.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: But uh so the rating that that products get in terms of its repairability, if that's a word, where did that system, where was that born?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: The idea that that that when you buy something, it you have a rating on the price tag that tells you how easily or how accessible it is to be repaired.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has multiple sources, I believe.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I know that um iFixIt, which is a company in the US, started their repairability rating.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And but it's also a thing in the right-to-repair activism.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And France developed their own repairability index and the European Union is working on a similar system.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, this is one of the developments that are going on and hopefully are bringing us to more repairable products.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: In in doing a bit of background searching, come across came across some of the work that's happening in Minnesota where they had this the stats were that 50,000 tons of of things go into the landfill daily or or sorry, annually, and that just the economics of it, that the that if those electronics, that that was electronics alone, if those could be diverted, that that it the whole industry of repair could create over 300,000 jobs.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the amazing thing.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: But there's been pushback by big tech saying that the allowing manuals and access to the information was a security threat.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's always their point.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's they always come come up with security and safety, uh, and they uh like to say that repairing is very dangerous and that you shouldn't do it and that you should leave it to the professional, but even for the professional, it's not uh always the best solution.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: But this is so strange because the there is only one way to go.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: The the amounts of resources on earth are limited, and we need to save them for future generations too.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes absolutely no sense to to to uh harvest these resources and use them for a short time and then to burn them or landfill them and and lose them, and when these resources are are gone, they're really gone.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the the stocks are limited and if we keep on doing what we're doing now, we run out and future generations will have no resources left.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there are and and at the same time, there are more and more people every day who like to use these resources and who may need these resources in the future.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes absolutely no sense to to use them up and throw them away and just well wait and see what happens.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: And to play devil's advocate, I couldn't I couldn't help but think watching some of the some of the uh news shows that you and your repair cafe movement are not good for business.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's good for some business, but not for others.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: But but I'm wondering, on a corporate level, have have you ever received any pushback aside from aside from tech?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, because m well, people sometimes ask, are you not a competitor for professional repairers?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: But then we say there are well fewer and fewer professional repairers left.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't compete with with repairers.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think well no, we don't compete with repairers and we we well we like to compete with with uh people buying new stuff and prevent that of course.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And well, I'm not sorry if if if if companies feel uncomfortable with that because it's the only way we need to stop buying stupid news new things all the time because we don't need them.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: The world cannot afford them and they're not going to make us happy.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if this is a threat to uh the the a business model, then we need to change the business model.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Fair.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we need not change our uh well, we don't need to change the repair cafe or repair initiatives that are there.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't the repair industry that I was referring to.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: I was referring to more the manufacturing sector where where you by encouraging this circular economy, you you diminish the uh the need, if you will, or the want, probably more so, of new products continually being pushed out.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so, I mean, we see we all agree that that's a terrific thing, and and and we need to embrace that sort of that sort of mindset, that sort of thinking.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm sure there are some individuals somewhere going, Oh, we want people to be addicted to new, to getting the latest, the newest, the the what have you.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: This throwaway economy is is actually good for our business.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but in the end, we're all people, so there is no distinction between the the what's good for a manufacturer or what's good for uh just another person.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because a manufacturer is a person too, and they too will benefit from a livable future and a clean environment and pollution and is not good for for anyone.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Also not not not for a manufacturer.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Completely agree with you.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there are other, I mean Patagonia is a prime example where they ran an ad that said don't buy our jackets on Black Friday as a a counter to and and they were supported and they have a a huge program for bringing in old toys and old products to repair them and then sell them as seconds for people who probably there's a small market for of those who can afford Patagonia price tags and would be happy to have a repaired item.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you see the the most movement from individual focus on on reusing and repairing to a culture of repair?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are there places on the planet?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Are there policies?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you feel that there's the most leading edge in this space for for what can can be happening?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I believe, well, my my information from Europe is strongest, being based in Europe myself.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So but I believe the European Union is is doing well something for the right to repair.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not very very distinguished yet.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so but there is a European right to repair in place, uh, and all the member states of the European Union have um have now installed their uh laws in their their country for to to to get this uh right.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it's still a limited right, it applies to a limited number of products, and it could be extended to well, many other products.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically for larger household appliances like uh washing machines and dryers and dishwashers.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: But but it doesn't apply to the the smaller electronics that we see in the repair cafes like uh toasters and coffee machines and vacuum cleaners.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the there is still a lot of work to be done.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the European Union is is aware that this is an this is uh an item and that it will not go away.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: But there are several states in the in the United States as well who have laws in this for the right to repair already, too.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's small steps everywhere and the pushback from industries and lobby work from from manufacturers is very strong.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we are still a very small movement, unfortunately.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, when you began this 15 plus years ago, 17 years ago, in your wildest dreams, did you think that you'd have 4,000 of these internationally around the world and that governments would be passing laws to support your initiative?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, did you think that this was even possible?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's good to to remember that every now and then and to see how far we've come and try to uh not to become pessimistic or lose hope.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's a it's a good thing to to remember that we've come a long way.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, we're not there yet, but we can well we we can only do what we can do and uh keep the faith.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so when you say there, what where what is there?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: What is the vision?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Five, ten years from now, when you imagine the good, what is it that you that you still hope to to to achieve, or how do you want to spread this this phenomenon?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there is still room for many more repair cafes around the world.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: There could be millions, there could be several in every community, and they could work as uh and they do work as a sort of first stop for problems with your product, like a sort of general practitioner for things, uh, where you can go and you say, Doctor, my coffee maker doesn't make full cups anymore.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then they will say that you need to de-scale them, and then it will work again.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So repair coffee is our first stop where you learn, where you can just exchange information with uh someone who knows more about this and someone who can help you also with maintenance and sort of general tips like you can try this, you can try that, and you need to take care of it, and you need to spend some time caring for your product.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a first stop.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: But then there should also be more professional repairers who where you don't have to stay with the product or do the repair together, but where you can just drop it off and pick it up after a week and where you will pay for the repair.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I would want the repair infrastructure to become much richer and much more diverse so that everyone can have a choice.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: If do you want to make the repair yourself using some information from the internet or a YouTube video, or do you want to go to a repair cafe where you do it together with a volunteer and where you learn a lot and where you have a good time?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you want to go to a professional and then pay for the repair but get warranty as well?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we should go to a situation where people have less or fewer products who have been chosen with more carefully chosen, and they could be more expensive in the shop.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: But that would be a good thing too, because then you would not be tempted to to buy so much.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you would be more more specific in your needs, you would be more critical in your choices, then you would select a product to buy, and then because you've spent more money, you would take better care for for it of it.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, examples of of that are Vitamix and Le Cruset.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Vitamix, you can buy a processor for you know twenty plus dollars, and they charge 20 times that, they're almost$400, but they have up to 10 years warranty, and people are willing to invest and pay more for the quality and for the longevity of the product.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And Le Crusade becomes a family, the the big cast iron pots become family heirlooms where they're passed on.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So people are willing to invest.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: I always think of my grandma's.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: When I was a kid growing up, we had this blender that was that was my grandma's, and then when I started making protein shakes when I started rowing in my teens, my mom went and got it from grandma, and so I used it, and it was a oyster.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was an oyster brand.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was a heavy metal steel base with a very powerful engine.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: The container was glass, not plastic.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom had that right up until you know in her 90s when she passed.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that thing had to be goodness knows how old, but it worked.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it and it, you know, I just think you'd be hard-pressed to find to find a blender today that is that is sort of sticking around for 50 years, 60 years, and yeah, and still working.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think that the way we build obsolescence obsolescence into products, it's a it's a crime, really.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: It makes no sense.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: It has nothing to do with well sustainability or with goodness or whatsoever.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it would be would be better if we uh if products were more expensive in the shop, it would give you more sense of value, and it would make a professional repair more make more sense for more products.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that would be a good thing.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and to your point, I remember when there was a vacuum sort of electronic guy on the main street heading into Victoria.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: We had an electronics repair shop out here in our community, and those are those are no more.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: You just you don't find those stores anymore, those shops anymore.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: There is a great deal of enthusiasm for secondhand, but yet the the data on the majority of secondhand clothing still goes to the landfill, something like 70%.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a step in the right direction, but somewhat incomplete.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this generation, our daughter being one, is very conscious of the clothing industry and and this notion of thrifting and buying secondhand and reusing.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's almost a fashion, if you will.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Loc locally here with the the the repair cafe, it's part of West Shore Reimagine.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And with the reimagine element, it also has uh there's a tension to food sustainability.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So there are workshops for give sharing gardening skills, helping people learn how to grow their own garden, how to compost, how to prune fruit trees.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there are other elements.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's the the local uh tool library, so tool sharing is part of of that element.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there are other branches that are spreading out with a similar spirit spirit of of extending life to goods and sharing knowledge and and and resources in a way that there's communication as well between repair cafes internationally in terms of ideas and possibilities.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: We'll include information and links in the show notes for people who want to who want to find out more about the repair cafe in in their in their local areas.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: But is there a message that you want to sort of leave with the listeners around getting behind this movement and the importance of of of these repair cafes and the initiative behind them?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, repairing is is useful and it's also very much fun.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you should just try it.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe in trying to change people's mindset one repair at a time.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: And a repair, a successful repair really changes something in your mind, and it makes you see that if if you have repaired your coffee maker by reattaching a wire, then you begin to understand that it's crazy that you were were prepared to throw the entire product out just because one wire had come loose.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And when you reattach the wire and it works again, then you begin to understand that this is a valuable product and that it was just a small problem that you could solve together with someone in a repair cafe.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: This kind of small experience, it's something that you you don't forget because it's so positive and it's so logical that the next time when something breaks, you will remember that and you will think, oh, maybe I can solve this problem too.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe I could go to the repair cafe again and they can help me.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe that this is a way of well, empowering people, but also empowering communities.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that if we pull together and we start to trust that that there are solutions to our problems and that we can tackle them if we if we pull together, then I believe that we are moving in the right direction.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I would just invite everyone to join their local repair cafe to go there with a broken item, have a good time, and learn something, and keep it in mind and let it grow.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I all vote for that experience because when you came home with something that had been repaired, my immediately went, what else could we take, you know, next time?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're right, it absolutely changes the way you think in terms of what else can we get fixed here?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: Or what else could I get sharpened from the woodshed.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the same goes for entire communities.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that if entire communities if have if more people in the community have this confidence or this feeling that we can solve problems, then we can do much more than we can solve all kinds of other problems too.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we really need to start solving problems.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, another I I can certainly speak to that personally.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's so satisfying on on both the receiving side to have things repaired and to be helping people and uh the spirit of community.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, definitely invite people to check it out and uh be a part of this.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Martine, thank you so much for for what you've been doing for 17 years and beyond, and for sharing your journey with us today and what could be for the future.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: So grateful for your your work.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Just such an inspiring story.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it's uh, you know, when Robin came back from the first one, I I was just so intrigued.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then watching the the little news sec segments online, it's it's it's truly inspiring.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: It really is.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: And and I I hope you take a moment once in a while to to to take it in and rec and recognize your impact because it's not nothing.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's really, really impressive.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for that too.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for saying that, and thank you for having me on your show.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks everyone for joining us today.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Bye-bye.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Before we go, we'd like to leave you with the guiding questions at the heart of Imagine the Good.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: What's good in the world?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: How can I build on that?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And what might become possible if I did.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Take a little time to sit with those questions.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: And if this conversation brought someone to mind, consider sharing it with them.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for spending this time with us.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: If you'd like to help others discover Imagine the Good, please follow or subscribe to the show and leave us a rating and review wherever you listen.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: Until next time, keep finding the good in your world.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: Look for moments to elevate and celebrate life in your circles and imagine what we can become together.