Latest / The BSB Podcast / 'Liberation' | The BSB Podcast

Transcript

'Liberation' | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  The fight for equality never ends, as the characters and the show we're discussing today on the BSB Podcast understand intimately.
• 0:06
  Liberation has taken the world by storm, with a look at what it means to truly have the choice in a world that doesn't always accept that.
• 0:12
  But before we dive into the show, please like, follow, and subscribe to the BSB Insider on all social media platforms @bsb.insider Spoiler warning, we are exploring all aspects of
• 0:23
  Broadway's liberation, so if you wish to remain unspoiled about the show,
• 0:27
  Pause this episode and return once you've seen it.
• 0:30
  RJ, this is a show that is um probably the most interesting of our experiences so far on Broadway because it is the first time we've ever attended a show that was being taped.
• 0:43
  Correct.
• 0:44
  was that for you?
• 0:44
  I don't know if it was like exciting as much as it was just like very intriguing and interesting to see how that goes down and what that experience is like.
• 0:57
  And like, obviously we made our stamp on history.
• 1:00
  So.
• 1:02
  And it wasn't just because we were sitting relatively close to Susan Sarandon.
• 1:05
  That might have been part of it.
• 1:07
  There might have been a big part of it.
• 1:09
  Yeah, so this was a show that as we were walking in, I didn't even realize, as you remember, RJ, I didn't even realize that we were being filmed.
• 1:17
  You had to tell me why we were sticking our phones into a magnetized sleeve and they had to be turned off because I was absolutely clueless about what was going on.
• 1:26
  Yeah, I mean to be fair it was 100 % an assumption on my part as well, but you know, 2 plus 2 may or may not equal 4, and that's the kind of math that I was doing when I saw a
• 1:40
  sign on the wall that said this production would be taped for historical purposes.
• 1:48
  I mean, that's a little more than two plus two.
• 1:50
  That was definitely like a, was, you did, you did algebra there and we all appreciated that because I didn't know what was going on, but it was a really cool experience.
• 1:59
  I think that's where I want to start off with is that we were a part of history and truthfully, this story is something that is also historic for quite a few reasons, both
• 2:11
  what it was exploring, the fact that we were a part of it, the fact that it's also
• 2:16
  was one of the shows, and I think this is where we should actually start, is that this was an off-Broadway show that was so big that it came to Broadway relatively quickly.
• 2:26
  I mean, this premiered last January off-Broadway, and it's already made that, they've already made it on to the James Earl Jones Theater.
• 2:36
  That's a pretty quick turnaround, wouldn't you say?
• 2:39
  Yeah, especially for, I wanna say a straight show.
• 2:43
  um know, cause like musicals tend to grab more attention faster, cause it's either a hit or it's not.
• 2:53
  And this one just seemed to gain a steady amount of speed and then obviously project itself onto Broadway.
• 3:01
  for sure, absolutely.
• 3:03
  It was kind of cool.
• 3:04
  It was just like a really cool experience.
• 3:06
  This was one of those ones that we weren't gonna see necessarily the first time.
• 3:09
  Like when we first started talking about shows, this wasn't on our radar, also because we don't see a lot of straight shows.
• 3:14
  In fact, it was kind of interesting that we saw not one, but we saw two straight shows this year, which really does truly speak to where Broadway's at right now, because usually
• 3:26
  musicals sell.
• 3:27
  And this one was a packed house.
• 3:28
  And this was a show, again, like Oh, Mary!
• 3:31
  where you just were absolutely amongst people who were just as excited about the show.
• 3:39
  I think more excited, or maybe they're excited for Susan Sarandon.
• 3:42
  I'm not quite sure.
• 3:45
  But that being said, we're looking at a show, Liberation, we're looking at the show through the eyes of a daughter.
• 3:54
  You this story, this narrative.
• 3:56
  um She's looking back.
• 4:00
  at a group of women that her mom had led in Ohio in the 1970s.
• 4:06
  It was kind of the question of like, why?
• 4:10
  I think that's kind of what struck me so much about the show at first was that she didn't understand her mom and she just lost her mom and she was trying more than anything.
• 4:21
  to find out why her mom made decisions that led to the life that she ultimately had.
• 4:27
  What was that opening monologue like for you?
• 4:29
  it hit me really hard in a good way because I just, well, first off, I didn't think it was a monologue because she was talking directly to the crowd.
• 4:38
  But second off, it set the tone of the show very quickly.
• 4:42
  Yes, I mean I would agree it almost threw me off when she kind of cut to the stage in the midst of that monologue because at first I wasn't sure if she was just playing to the
• 4:55
  camera which was on the orchestra level like straight down center which is kind of where she was looking and standing and it was so casual
• 5:06
  And I also think there was no cue, like the lights didn't change right away, like there was no cue to the audience that like the show had begun.
• 5:16
  And so probably a good, I want to say a quarter of the way, maybe even half of the way through that opening piece, the lights did finally kind of go down, or at least enough
• 5:29
  that you're like, okay, like we're going, this is part of the shindig.
• 5:36
  because it felt so modern.
• 5:38
  And yet we knew that this play was taking place decades prior.
• 5:42
  uh So yeah, it threw me off a little bit, but a very intriguing...
• 5:50
  She tells you right up front what to anticipate, right?
• 5:53
  She talks about it being a memory piece.
• 5:57
  And so that's what kind of snapped me back into the reality of what we were watching or about to watch.
• 6:06
  I don't think I realized before walking into the show and her kind of talking about it being a memory piece, I fully comprehended that it was a memory piece.
• 6:15
  This is, in fact, the only other show I can really think of right at the top of my head is Fun Home, which is a memory piece kind of told off the side where sometimes she steps into
• 6:24
  it, sometimes she doesn't.
• 6:25
  And then this one, you're right, there was no cues.
• 6:29
  Like she's walking out, she sets something down on stage and she starts talking to the crowd.
• 6:34
  And part of what she was talking to us about was the fact that we put our phones in the sleeves, which gives you no indication that the show had started.
• 6:45
  Like there was just like the...
• 6:47
  She's almost making jokes and cracking jokes about like what has happened currently.
• 6:50
  And you're like, okay, this is like a little like warm up to like the show starting.
• 6:54
  Ha ha, that's all laughing.
• 6:54
  Get it out of the way so that we don't ruin the performance.
• 6:57
  And then all of sudden when she like stepped into the memory and the lights had changed and the other characters kind of walked on the stage and I was like, we had been
• 7:05
  bamboozled into like this moment of like, you're talking directly to us, but we're, but that's part of the show.
• 7:11
  And I thought it was shocking.
• 7:12
  I think it was actually kind of a really intriguing way to do it, but it was just so unexpected at first.
• 7:17
  Yeah, I think it made us feel comfortable, maybe even put our guard down for a second.
• 7:28
  That moment that the curtain goes up on any show, you kind of snap into theater mode.
• 7:32
  I don't know what else to call it, but you're just at full attention and you're uh just glued to the stage.
• 7:42
  Whereas...
• 7:43
  She was so conversational and yeah, it was so applicable to literally that exact moment that it I'm like, okay, so does she craft the monologue differently every show?
• 7:58
  Or obviously there's got to be some semblance of similarity, but I'd be very interested in hearing from other people what their opening was like because again,
• 8:14
  Was it due to the camera being there?
• 8:16
  Is this always the way that they open the show?
• 8:20
  Not sure.
• 8:21
  I feel like part of it was, and I'll just kind of, I'll tear off the bandaid and talk about it.
• 8:26
  Like, so obviously she's talking about like, you know, you can't have your phone for 90 minutes.
• 8:32
  It's really, you know, for two hours or whatever, it's really tough, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:36
  And then started talking about how her mom had cancer and had passed away.
• 8:40
  And there's like an emotional reaction.
• 8:42
  And all of that, I was like, yeah, this is the actress talking.
• 8:45
  Like this is, this must be the creative mind behind the show talking about it.
• 8:51
  And so then when you jump into the show, I still think at the end, I was really confused as to like, were we seeing the author?
• 8:58
  Was this the author playing the role?
• 9:00
  And ultimately it wasn't.
• 9:02
  It is an actress playing a role, but it ends up making it much more of a interactive is not the right word, but like you are, you are a part of the show as a cast member, like as
• 9:14
  a, as an audience member.
• 9:16
  you're being welcomed in because she's constantly stepping outside of the liberation gym, you know, to talk to us and talk, talk, give us context of what's going on there and also
• 9:27
  giving us context as to why she's feeling a certain way or if she is having a hard time processing something.
• 9:34
  And so it was like this really intimate look into the psyche of somebody.
• 9:38
  So as a psychologist, I was having a field day.
• 9:40
  That was like, honestly, some of the best part I could do.
• 9:42
  um
• 9:43
  Do you like shows, first off, uh talk to the audience like that?
• 9:47
  What do you, as somebody who has seen a lot of shows, but in a lot of shows, what does that do to your brain?
• 9:54
  Oh, it's it's hit or miss.
• 9:58
  part of me wants to be entirely secluded in the audience and pretend like I'm not there, and then the other part of me thinks it's super fun.
• 10:09
  Especially as the actor doing that, it's very fun, because you don't get to do it very often.
• 10:15
  So anytime you kind of get to break that wall, even if, like you said, it's not particularly interactive, making direct eye contact with someone
• 10:27
  on purpose.
• 10:28
  um Which you just...
• 10:32
  It might seem like we're doing that in other shows, but really we're just looking into...
• 10:37
  ...stage lights where we can't see anything.
• 10:39
  So the intentionality behind that for this felt...
• 10:45
  ...a little bit scary.
• 10:46
  But also, like you said, welcoming in.
• 10:49
  Like you automatically, because it felt conversational, you automatically felt more when she mentions.
• 10:57
  the loss of her mother.
• 10:59
  Like you just...
• 11:01
  that emotion for some reason the dynamic was stronger than if she had just walked on and said, my mother passed away from cancer.
• 11:11
  Rather, you have us thinking about, I know that loss, right?
• 11:17
  Like she's getting emotional, she's saying the thing, and immediately my mind went to, I know exactly how that feels.
• 11:26
  And so you're like right in that space, which again, it's just the opening of this show does an incredible job at just setting the scene, not just literally, but internally in
• 11:39
  its audience.
• 11:42
  Yeah, do have to say that when she had mentioned that she got choked up, I felt my breath get sucked out a little bit.
• 11:49
  Granted, didn't lose someone personally in that way, but I did lose a significant person years ago to cancer.
• 11:58
  watching them take their last breath, I was automatically taken into that moment.
• 12:02
  And I was all like, OK.
• 12:04
  I've been in your shoes.
• 12:06
  And I feel like in that moment, everybody has lost somebody in some way.
• 12:09
  And so it's like the entry into pulling you into the story, which a story that could be maybe difficult for some people to easily feel like they're like they can get accessibly
• 12:22
  into it, you know, ah in that moment, she makes the story not about just the topic of second wave feminism, but also just that personal story of like trying to
• 12:33
  gain a piece of somebody that she lost again.
• 12:35
  And we've all been there.
• 12:37
  And that's what makes this so universal to me.
• 12:38
  And I think that's maybe why I was so drawn to Liberation by the time we were done with it, was because you are sucked in through the emotional vulnerability of Lizzie is the
• 12:50
  character's name.
• 12:51
  uh
• 12:53
  And so it's just a very interesting dynamic.
• 12:55
  And I think that that really set the stage for us as well.
• 12:59
  With this show though, there was a part of me as we're going into it that thought it was gonna be like a...
• 13:06
  Suffs a little bit, but in the 1970s, and I know we always bring back to the show, but this is not like Suffs like how would you kind of yes, it's a straight show, but like what
• 13:15
  is the In your eyes, what's the kind of going on narratively here or like what's the structure of the show?
• 13:21
  Yes, you mentioned a memory show like how are we pulled into these characters?
• 13:26
  Yeah, I think the recall piece of it, like they mentioned, memory, it's like going back and watching your own history versus watching the world's history or the nation's history.
• 13:45
  Like we were getting more of a personal lens, like a day-to-day expectation of women and the things that they were going through in that time.
• 13:55
  rather than, hey, we're tackling women's rights, right?
• 14:00
  Like, I mean, they still were.
• 14:01
  They still talked about marching and protesting and all of those things.
• 14:08
  But it's definitely not as political.
• 14:12
  It's not, it doesn't feel as charged as maybe some other shows that we've seen.
• 14:17
  um It feels more personal and more individualistic.
• 14:25
  from different perspectives of the group.
• 14:30
  Yeah, it's a very intimate look into the lives of five women who were joined together by their desire to be liberated.
• 14:39
  That's what kind of brought it together was that, yes, these women were trying to find ways to have freedom in the world, but the story was not about them having freedom in the
• 14:47
  world, but more about how each individual's life was impacted by the choices they were making on this journey.
• 14:55
  You know, like that's kind of the narrative connective tissue through the show.
• 14:59
  Yeah, and I think they embraced the challenges, again, from each different perspective, because they all had very different personalities, you know, were looking at different uh
• 15:14
  statuses.
• 15:17
  They were really tackling a lot when it came to not just women's...
• 15:23
  uh
• 15:25
  feminism and liberation, but the specific topics within that and how women were ultimately even fighting each other, which we still, you know, historically, it's not too far off uh
• 15:45
  from where we are today.
• 15:46
  So yeah, it's a, it was less of a pretty picture, I think.
• 15:53
  As much as I love Suffs we do kind of get like the closure that we want.
• 15:57
  Like everything kind of goes the way that we want it to go.
• 16:03
  And with this, I am not sure that we really get much closure, which feels closer to reality.
• 16:14
  I want to piggyback off of that.
• 16:17
  One of the moments I think I loved the most in Liberation was towards the end where our narrator decides that she's not going to accept the answer of reality, but she's not going
• 16:32
  to accept.
• 16:33
  So.
• 16:33
  Spoiler alert.
• 16:34
  Oh, another spoiler warning people in case you don't want this spoiling you want the end is so while all of these women are fighting for liberation Ultimately our narrator's mom
• 16:44
  chooses to have a traditional marriage and kids in a life and kind of gave up the The fight in a way and that's kind of what our narrative narrators kind of questioning is like
• 16:54
  why did she give up this fight?
• 16:56
  Why did she make this choice?
• 16:57
  And when she finds out the answer she kind of rejects it
• 17:00
  And I love the moment where the other characters kind of talk back to her and said, you don't get to do that.
• 17:06
  Like, this is a show.
• 17:07
  Like, this is a story about we're fighting for the right for women to choose whatever life they want.
• 17:12
  You don't get to have the pretty little picture that you think that your mom should have or should be.
• 17:17
  Part of that is accepting the fact that your mom made a decision that maybe you didn't understand.
• 17:21
  And that's not always so pretty.
• 17:22
  And I think that goes up with what you're saying, that like it didn't.
• 17:26
  Like you didn't end feeling.
• 17:29
  Like joyful, but you left feeling lighter.
• 17:31
  So with a memory show, I think this is always something interesting to talk about.
• 17:35
  um I mean, I guess I'm gonna use The Great Gatsby for this.
• 17:39
  And I talked about this when we saw The Great Gatsby, but it's about the book and unreliable narrators.
• 17:49
  And what's interesting about memory is that memory is not always reliable.
• 17:53
  So therefore the story is not always the truth.
• 17:56
  How do you think that this should kind of balance that?
• 17:58
  Like, do you think that there...
• 18:02
  Like, how does one trust the story?
• 18:06
  Does that make sense?
• 18:08
  Yeah, I mean there were many call-outs of that memory issue throughout the show, right?
• 18:13
  We had...
• 18:15
  Because the daughter was ultimately conversing with the friends, there were multiple times where they said, didn't happen, or it happened this way, or here's what really went down.
• 18:29
  Because like you said, we all have our own perspectives, own world views of our interpretation of what occurred.
• 18:38
  Obviously half of the battle with this show is that Lizzie is trying to put all of those pieces together, the bits that she got from the friends versus her mom versus just the
• 18:53
  stories that she was told previously or her understanding of them.
• 18:57
  And
• 18:59
  realizing that there may be truth somewhere in the middle because every story has two sides and we may not understand either side uh but if we can find a commonality or even
• 19:18
  just a trend to follow that even if it doesn't feel 100 %
• 19:24
  for sure.
• 19:25
  No, for sure.
• 19:26
  I think that it's interesting when you look about back at it because it almost reminded me of like a visual visual representation of like going through old photographs.
• 19:40
  going through notebooks, like things that her mother had written.
• 19:43
  And part of it was interviewing characters.
• 19:46
  She also got to speak to some of the characters who were still alive when they were adults and got to have some of that.
• 19:51
  And that was interspersed into the show.
• 19:53
  And so I think that's where it's interesting for me because it wasn't a full memory show.
• 20:00
  Because part of it was based in, I first off, she wasn't there for the story, but she also was using facts or like other people's opinions and like cross-referencing and building a
• 20:11
  narrative that made sense for her mom.
• 20:15
  And then ultimately accepting the story that they're telling her.
• 20:19
  And so I think that is part of the beauty of this memory show.
• 20:23
  And with this too, obviously we have a lot of characters and specifically five.
• 20:27
  We have five main characters.
• 20:29
  uh With this show, there's quite a few different narratives going on.
• 20:36
  Is there one that you connected to the most?
• 20:37
  Is there characters whose story you felt resonated in you?
• 20:44
  I mean, I don't want to be super predictable and say Lizzie.
• 20:47
  um Just because I recognize in myself that want to know anything.
• 20:57
  Especially if I didn't get the answers from the individual once when they were alive and now if they're gone.
• 21:04
  um
• 21:06
  Well, I've caught myself in that exact situation where the person is no longer here and there are so many stories that I wish I could have heard or written down from them.
• 21:17
  and then kind of having to piece it together through other people or through, like you just mentioned, a scrapbook, a letter, a note, whatever that looks like a photo.
• 21:29
  so yeah, just that, that yearning for no matter what the actual
• 21:36
  question is uh seeking answers.
• 21:40
  oh
• 21:42
  For all those who are listening, want you to know that RJ loves asking questions.
• 21:46
  It's his favorite pastime.
• 21:48
  Like, he is the master of asking questions and follow-up questions and learning more, but it's truthfully from a place where he's trying to understand the person in front of him.
• 21:57
  He's trying to gain knowledge.
• 21:59
  He's trying to understand how to be...
• 22:02
  better supportive and how to be a better friend or how to be a better listener.
• 22:07
  And so it's no surprise that I knew when I asked that question it was going to be Lizzie because this is 100 % what you would do.
• 22:14
  I could see you this with anybody.
• 22:15
  I could see you doing this with your mom.
• 22:18
  You know what I mean?
• 22:19
  You would have a narrative.
• 22:22
  You'd have a question.
• 22:24
  And you would want answers.
• 22:25
  And you almost wouldn't stop until you had the answers, just because that's who you are.
• 22:31
  Darn it.
• 22:34
  I'll give you one.
• 22:36
  I was going to make you guess, but I'll just tell you if you want to know.
• 22:39
  I.
• 22:40
  This is such a weird answer, and I'm so I'm almost embarrassed to say this in a new as soon as I ask the question you were going to ask.
• 22:48
  Why did I feel such an affinity for Margie?
• 22:51
  I so this is where I'm coming from.
• 22:54
  I am somebody who has worked with a lot of people.
• 22:56
  who's watched my own mom and of myself has become my own mom, where duty is super important and like following through with like the tasks that you have set out for you or
• 23:10
  your obligations or the people that mean the most, even when sometimes you're exhausted and you're tired and not always knowing how to ask for help.
• 23:19
  And so I think I felt myself close to tears when she's talking about the fact that she...
• 23:25
  m
• 23:26
  just wanted her husband to do the dishes and then he finally does it.
• 23:29
  And like that was a small victory in her eyes and everybody else is just like, okay, he did the dishes, but to her that meant everything.
• 23:35
  And so I really felt myself kind of pulled towards that storyline where I just.
• 23:39
  You just want to be there for everybody.
• 23:43
  And every once in a while, you need somebody to be there for you.
• 23:46
  And every once in a while, someone is there for you.
• 23:47
  And it's just the biggest thank you you can ever ask.
• 23:50
  So Margie was my spirit person on stage there.
• 23:55
  I can see that.
• 23:56
  All that to say that a lot of these characters had aspects that I feel like I could appreciate, that I could pull into.
• 24:02
  ah Is it Dora?
• 24:06
  She is somebody who's so passionate about something and she just wants to be, she wants to have a better life situation.
• 24:14
  and feels trapped.
• 24:15
  And I feel like we've all been there, you know, and Dora who's young and naive and just wants to be recognized for all the good that she's doing.
• 24:22
  Like there's I think that's what's so I love about these characters is that they're all so real.
• 24:27
  And they all have aspects of every single one of us that feels real.
• 24:30
  Yeah, and they compliment each other, right?
• 24:33
  It very much felt like exactly what it was.
• 24:37
  A strange...
• 24:39
  A group of strangers happened to me and ultimately become very good friends even though they were vastly different from each other.
• 24:50
  uh And I think that's sometimes some of the best friendships because...
• 24:59
  You all don't have the same thoughts all the time, right?
• 25:02
  Like, you're coming from very different walks of life, and in my opinion, the more walks of life that you encounter, the more verse and the more knowledgeable you are about
• 25:16
  humanity and our lived experience together, which, if only the world could have more of that.
• 25:24
  I think we'd solve more problems.
• 25:27
  sure I totally agree.
• 25:29
  So switching gears a little bit I do want to talk about the tone of the show and I think by talk about the tone we also have to talk about the the writing team.
• 25:36
  So this was written by Bess Wohl who is again I'm pretty sure and if somebody's listening and I'm wrong here they correct me but I'm pretty sure this is her story about her mom to
• 25:47
  some degree.
• 25:48
  um But with this story it is very funny but there's also a lot of
• 25:57
  heaviness.
• 25:59
  How do you think that the show balance those two tones?
• 26:01
  Because it definitely is kind of we talked about some other shows.
• 26:05
  It's the spoonful of sugar aspect of this.
• 26:08
  I think it challenges our humanity in a way that we all challenge our own humanity.
• 26:17
  Because of the real identities, nothing felt super cartoonish, nothing felt so extreme that it wasn't something that we haven't experienced before.
• 26:29
  And so...
• 26:31
  even though there was a lot of heavy content and hard, hard discussions, those are things that we all do in our day-to-day lives.
• 26:41
  We have hard conversations and we don't always agree and we do get emotive in one way or another.
• 26:50
  And so it was kind of just like watching an aspect of your life play out, obviously not identical.
• 26:59
  but I think that we could all put ourselves in a time where...
• 27:04
  I'm specifically thinking toward the end where they kind of get into an argument or a fight and still kind of know that on the other side of that, it'll be okay.
• 27:17
  I love that scene.
• 27:19
  Absolutely.
• 27:19
  That scene where, paint a little context for everybody, it's the scene where they all find out that the narrator's mom has chosen to get married.
• 27:29
  And that was fundamentally against everything that they stood for.
• 27:33
  And it was this moment, I feel like, again, we've all been there with friends and stuff like that, where sometimes we're worried that we're going to fight and it's not going to
• 27:40
  be OK.
• 27:42
  And ultimately it was okay.
• 27:43
  And that was the beauty of the show is that it was okay.
• 27:46
  um And so I do think that like, when this show hit with the heart.
• 27:55
  it hit it really hard and it hit it like it hurt a little bit like in like a like a it makes you ache a little bit you're like gosh but then the humor it'd bring you right back
• 28:03
  up and it would remind you that like you're right everything is going to be okay on the other side of this and that can be uh a difficult pill to sometimes.
• 28:13
  but with that, then with the memory shifts and the total shifts of the show, RJ, is this show paced well?
• 28:20
  Could it be paced better?
• 28:22
  Were you okay with the two hour show?
• 28:25
  I...
• 28:26
  I would say yes.
• 28:30
  But...
• 28:30
  an asterisk.
• 28:33
  I can see where people would want it to pick up a little bit.
• 28:37
  Okay.
• 28:39
  There were just points.
• 28:40
  I mean it is timed in a way where they take liberty with time, right?
• 28:46
  Like they're having hard discussions and in hard discussions you do kind of take a breath.
• 28:52
  You take a couple breaths.
• 28:53
  You sometimes you're speeding through a line and sometimes you're just sitting and staring at someone for a good 30 seconds and not saying anything.
• 29:02
  And those can be exaggerated on a stage because, of course, this is theater.
• 29:08
  But I think there are a couple moments where that could have either just not been there or it could have been sped up a little bit more.
• 29:19
  I'm gonna go ahead and name one specific scene.
• 29:23
  The scene where the actress who plays Margie steps into the mom's role.
• 29:29
  That scene felt like it went on forever and kept delivering the same.
• 29:36
  message.
• 29:37
  And I feel like that's of the ones where I'm just like, okay, I know you're breathing.
• 29:40
  You're letting us breathe with these characters.
• 29:42
  But I also don't understand why to this degree.
• 29:45
  And so that was the one I was all the way up to that moment.
• 29:48
  I was feeling it, feeling it, feeling it.
• 29:49
  And then I was like, what are we doing here?
• 29:52
  And so that was one part that definitely uh I felt like it was a little too much breath.
• 29:59
  And for those of you who don't know the show at all, uh it is one of the few that have been brave enough to have a full nudity scene.
• 30:16
  And while that is incredibly powerful and I completely understand it obviously it should absolutely be there.
• 30:23
  It took us a while to get through it.
• 30:27
  And I'm not sure, I feel like the same effect would have occurred had they sped that up a little bit.
• 30:35
  uh I mean essentially you're going around the room saying what you like or don't like about your body.
• 30:41
  heard absolutely 100%.
• 30:44
  Maybe it was for the purpose of making everyone feel awkward because that's what was being felt in that scene from not just the actors but the characters.
• 30:58
  But for some reason that one also just...
• 31:02
  I was like, okay, so we get that they are fully nude.
• 31:07
  We get it.
• 31:09
  and scene.
• 31:11
  It was the opening scene to Act 2.
• 31:16
  And they come back and they're starting, like the lights are still dimmed a little bit, they're starting to take off their clothes.
• 31:21
  And then, no lie, was not shorter than 10 minutes.
• 31:25
  Like it was a long scene where they had to have everybody's insecurity and what they loved had to be talked about.
• 31:33
  And I was like, okay, I get what you're doing here.
• 31:36
  But it was like every character had to have a conversation.
• 31:40
  about what they liked and what they didn't like.
• 31:41
  And it was one those ones that's like, okay, one or two of them, you would have got the message.
• 31:47
  And I think you could have had a poignant moment where someone said something profound, because there was a few of those there, but you didn't need every character to have a
• 31:54
  profound moment in that aspect.
• 31:57
  I don't know, it could have been played out a little differently.
• 31:58
  Again, it was one of those ones, like we're breathing with them.
• 32:00
  And maybe you're right, maybe it was to make us all uncomfortable.
• 32:03
  Because you don't see that in Broadway.
• 32:07
  You know, don't see that in shows a lot anymore.
• 32:09
  And so it is just a moment where you're just like the, there was like some uncomfortable giggling.
• 32:14
  There was some shifting in the seats.
• 32:16
  People are not quite sure what to do.
• 32:17
  And we're having this conversation about loving our bodies, which we all share those conversations.
• 32:22
  ah But as a psychologist, I'll tell you, I've had that conversation with clients one-on-one and it's the most uncomfortable conversation for them.
• 32:31
  And it doesn't usually take that long.
• 32:33
  Yeah, and I get, I mean, I so appreciate how powerful that scene can be because as we know, the war on the female body is just constant.
• 32:49
  And so I think there was a lot of layers to that and I think it's a good way to kind of show
• 32:58
  ultimately put a mirror up to us and say, why do you feel so uncomfortable?
• 33:04
  um While we're still getting the text from the characters saying what makes them feel good or bad about it.
• 33:15
  But yeah, did it need to be 15 minutes long for five, six women?
• 33:23
  Probably not.
• 33:26
  But speaking of the show itself and the, I like setting the scene, know, is this is in a 1970s rec center basement.
• 33:39
  And RJ, why was it one of the best sets we have seen on Broadway ever?
• 33:46
  I could smell the gym.
• 33:49
  just by seeing the walls in the basketball court.
• 33:51
  You know what I mean?
• 33:52
  Like there was such, was like, that's my elementary school.
• 33:54
  Like that's the school that I went, like I was fifth grade.
• 33:57
  We sat on that floor and we watched movies on the wall.
• 34:00
  Like it was insane how detailed and perfect that was.
• 34:05
  And I was kind of blown away by that.
• 34:07
  Yeah, I mean, I literally said, like, is this even a set?
• 34:10
  Did they paint the back wall?
• 34:11
  Like, it was so well done.
• 34:14
  The lighting, you know, those good old fluorescent lights that are flickering because they're old um and changing in tone.
• 34:27
  uh
• 34:29
  because sometimes they're insanely bright white and then other times when they're dimmed and they're a little bit more orangey yellow.
• 34:36
  um And they talked consistently about the smell, right?
• 34:42
  So it was just like creating this scene in our head that even though literally nothing came on and off the stage, we still, we knew exactly where we were and how every person
• 34:56
  or nearly every person in that audience knew exactly from experience what it felt like to sit in a gym like that.
• 35:05
  I mean, absolutely brilliant.
• 35:07
  I I hope that it wins or it's least recognized for set design.
• 35:11
  Followed up by, think that I hope that it also gets recognized for lighting.
• 35:15
  I thought the lighting was really cool where they had the way that it's shifted from like narrator, you know, to mom and like back and forth.
• 35:23
  Like it was literally like a pause function.
• 35:27
  The stage kind of goes blue and there's a spotlight on her and she's kind of turning towards the audience.
• 35:31
  It was like such a cool effect.
• 35:33
  And I was like, that is...
• 35:34
  One of the coolest ways to do that, and it just felt, it felt almost magical in a way, in a way that I can't really describe.
• 35:44
  Yeah, it kind of reminded me of every time they went to the narrow-raid, it was kind of like a deer in headlights moment.
• 35:50
  Where it was just...
• 35:52
  It wasn't that all of the rest of the lights went down, but it was almost like it was so fast it caught you off guard a little bit.
• 35:59
  And I think the lighting was coming from like the side, so it didn't feel like it was theatrical.
• 36:04
  It felt like it was happening on, within the stage.
• 36:08
  And we were just watching it happen that way.
• 36:11
  And...
• 36:13
  Yeah, it just felt different.
• 36:14
  It was like we got brought in.
• 36:18
  And then we were out again.
• 36:19
  And out and in.
• 36:20
  Pretty consistently.
• 36:21
  That was the other difference, I would say, from other shows I've seen, where the narrator is less consistent.
• 36:29
  Whereas this one, exclusively, the narration was happening when they were, when she was talking to us.
• 36:37
  And then when we cut back in,
• 36:40
  There was no gray area.
• 36:42
  Like, she was just back in it.
• 36:45
  Right.
• 36:45
  And like the technical aspect of doing that is insane that they nailed that perfectly.
• 36:51
  Again, they're professionals.
• 36:52
  I get that.
• 36:54
  But I just think that was really cool.
• 36:55
  I hope it at least gets a nod at the Tonys.
• 36:58
  If not wins for lighting.
• 37:00
  Do they have lighting for plays?
• 37:01
  They should have lighting for plays.
• 37:03
  Something that we should talk to the Tonys about.
• 37:05
  ah All right, RJ, as we're wrapping this up, let's talk about who is liberation for?
• 37:11
  Who is this play made for?
• 37:14
  feminists.
• 37:17
  truth.
• 37:17
  And with that, no, just kidding.
• 37:20
  I mean, anyone interested in history, right?
• 37:22
  I would say anyone who lived through this time period would definitely appreciate, but also from a historical standpoint, it's a great show for people to go and learn if you
• 37:33
  don't know about what life was like previous to how it is now.
• 37:39
  Granted, again, some things haven't changed, unfortunately, but it's...
• 37:45
  a show that embraces identity, I think no matter where you're coming from, it challenges you on your own scope of your personal identity.
• 37:55
  I would agree with that.
• 37:56
  This is one where no matter how you identify who you are, you can see yourself in somebody here because they're universal messages.
• 38:06
  They're not specific to the second wave feminism movement.
• 38:12
  Like these women were not alone in these feelings.
• 38:16
  I think as a gay man, I've felt some of these feelings,
• 38:19
  weird, feeling out, feeling different.
• 38:22
  I think we've all had aspects that we haven't loved our body or that we haven't lived up to what we think our potential is or that we just question what our potential is.
• 38:30
  And so to see all of this in these characters, I mean, I think it really is something.
• 38:35
  It felt historical almost in the way of like we're watching something special being made.
• 38:40
  And for that, I'm actually going to go ahead and give it an A minus, which I know is
• 38:46
  crazy to think.
• 38:48
  did really like this show and I think it's one of the ones that stuck with me other than the fact of two strangers carrying a cake across New York, which as I told my mom of it
• 38:57
  yesterday, I started crying my eyes out again.
• 38:59
  So that's a different conversation for a different episode.
• 39:01
  ah But this one definitely sucker punched me a little bit.
• 39:08
  um And I obviously I bought a book when I was there because I felt moved enough to buy a book.
• 39:14
  because there was something about the story and I think it has to do specifically with how um Lizzie, Susannah Flood and her acting for the role really connected me to the story a
• 39:27
  lot.
• 39:28
  And that's not to say that everybody else in this cast is not exceptional.
• 39:30
  I mean, they are all really, really, really good.
• 39:33
  I applaud them for everything that they do for the show.
• 39:36
  But there was something about Susannah Flood's performance that really drew me in and made me
• 39:41
  continue to think about liberation.
• 39:44
  What grade would you give it?
• 39:46
  I would give it a B.
• 39:51
  Okay, middle of the road.
• 39:55
  Is there something you wish that they would have done differently?
• 39:58
  that would have given you a higher grade.
• 40:00
  I think the ending...
• 40:02
  I'm not sure how I would have changed it.
• 40:05
  um
• 40:07
  I just, I personally didn't feel as connected as I thought I would have at the end of it all.
• 40:14
  um So the wrap up felt...
• 40:18
  maybe too quick for the amount of time that we spent on everything else.
• 40:24
  That's understandable Would you see it again?
• 40:27
  I
• 40:29
  same here.
• 40:30
  So when it tours eventually, hopefully fingers crossed, we will be seeing this again.
• 40:33
  um But with that, we have reached the end of our time here.
• 40:38
  So stay tuned for future episodes of the BSB Podcast podcast.
• 40:41
  Thanks again for joining us here in our box seats until next curtain call.