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Christianity and Marginalized People: Part 7.3 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I've never told your prediction of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: And we are back with the much awaited and much
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: delayed final episode on our Christianity and the Marginalized Community
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: slash Religious Trauma series. Yeah. I think it ended up
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: being like I want to say, ten to eleven episodes
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: in total, because we had a couple of splits in
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: some of our episodes. I know we did because there
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: was a lot of information, and so we're going to
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: do a quick recap of our very extended series. It's
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: not no longer a mini series because what we say
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: mini series is like three to four oh, which was
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: the original intent.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I think that's up for debate.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's grown longer than we originally anticipated.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: And listeners just for a peek behind the curtains and
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: he would be like, you're gonna do this week? I like,
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: no about this week. I want to talk about this instead.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: I wanted to do this instead.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I don't want talk about this anymore.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: But we made it. We finally made it because Andy
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: was like, look, I've dropped the ball on several occasions,
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: and she's like, you can make it up to be
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: by finishing the Damn series. It's like, yeah, you're right,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: You're right.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to cross it off my list.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: That's just haunting you. Yes, but yes we're gonna do
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: a click recap. So we talked about the historical context
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: of what religion is like today and how it came
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: to the beats point in the US, what religious trauma
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: is and how it affects the marginalized communities, the toxicity
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: of purity culture, and that was a deep one, y'all.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: All of this have been deep, but like we really
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: dug into some things, especially in the United States, the
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: sexual abuse and sexual violence within a church culture, domestic
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: violence and the church of silence when it comes to
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: violence in general, especially with partner of violence. And then
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: we have victim blaming. Add to that was the victim
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: blaming and the even condoning by the church, and then
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: the church's view on divorce, and that was an interesting one,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: and of course the role of women as wives. And
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: then Christianity and the queer community, and that was one
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: of those that we split into two because we had
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of conversations about that, especially about how both
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: sides feel when it comes to how especially the right
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: is talking and victimizing the queer community as well as
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: the past, things like conversion therapy, which is still hotly
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: talked about today. I've actually had several pieces come my way.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I'm like, damn it, why are we still talking about this?
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Because it exists and people are still very bad people
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: with this really barbaric idea behind it. And as we
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: have previously said, there's a lot of personal trauma for
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: both Annie and I as well as for people as
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: a whole, and we are seeing it play out in
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: politics as well, especially Actually, it's all over the world.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: It's kind of interesting how maybe we're just paying more attention,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: or maybe we're just more connected because of social media,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: but it's definitely rampant all over the world. But again,
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: just to reiterate, we aren't saying religion is all bad
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: or all corrupt, but that religious trauma and the alt
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: right ideology that has twisted Western Christianity is something we
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: should be aware of and continue to talk about. There
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: are those who truly seek a higher belief in faith
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: with good hearts and intentions meaning to fulfill their lives
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: and to do good work in the world. As I
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: have mentioned before, the words of Jesus are vastly different
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: from the interpretations of many of the conservative talking heads,
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: and biases exist within cultures and denominations, and we should
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: be diligent and wary of information based on those biases
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: and emotions. So that's the big caveat there now that
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: we have all of that out of the way. As
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: with again the other episodes, there is content warning with
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: mentions of anti queer rhetoric, hate speech, an overall unpleasant
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: view on what is happening today in our society. It
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: was for us, it is stressful for us to research it,
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: to dig into it, so we know it can be
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: for you as well. So just take that well in mind.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, So in the last episode we had to
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: split the episode because of the deep and long anti
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: queer history within Western Christianity and many other religions. We
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: already discussed some of the philosophical debates as well as
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: hate groups that are based off of faith based organizations,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and we delved into the darkness of conversion therapy, which
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: is still, yes, hotly debated today, still is a thing.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: So today we wanted to talk about the attack on
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: the trans community by faith based organizations and politicians.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: And we did separate this out of just we talked
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: about it in the Queer episode as well, but there's
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: a specific attack on trans communities in general, and it's
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: unfortunately assisted by turfs. Turfs are just people who would
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: call themselves feminism feminism, and we've seeing people who in
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: the queer community would also attack trans people in general
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: as well, and so we wanted to make sure that
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: we did talk about this because they have become a
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: fuckal point for many of the political conservatives out there today.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: So when it comes to talking about the trans community,
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: it can feel a bit overwhelming and exhausting. And this
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: is from my point of view, and yes that's to
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: say for those of us who aren't a part of
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: that community can only understand a fraction of those emotions.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: So I'm not trying to put any words in anybody's mouth.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: I understand that I do not understand the full depth
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: of it. But a part of this is also understanding
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: and reteaching ourselves or others of the ever changing language
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: and rhetoric, which is important for us to honor and
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: follow through with. I will admit for me it is
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: difficult sometimes not because I don't respect it, but because
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: re educating myself and growing with it is a constant process.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: But for the sake of this episode, if we are
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: using an outdated time something there that is no longer relevant,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: please let us know kindly, because the amount of information
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: we have to swim through for the series specifically can
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: be overwhelming, and then we try to find the most
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: updated information. Sometimes it doesn't always happen. Also, we will
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: let you know ahead of time, but we do research
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: the conservative sites as well to see their reasoning and
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: more likely the misinformation they used to push their narratives.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: So if we use their direct quotes, the speech may
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: be dated. Again, we will be trying to censor anything
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: that is offensive, but want you to understand why that
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: might be in here. Again, I say this as a
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: person from I am Technically people are still arguing whether
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: or not elder millennials exist, and I'm being told that
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: I am gen X. I'm like, well, someone tell me
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: what I am because I am right on that cusp.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: So a lot of that. The language has changed vastly
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: over the past forty years, and I'd love to see
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: it because again we finally come to the point of
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: understanding that it is the spectrum and no longer just
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: like black and white. You have known, because many of
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: you have taught me. I am growing with this conversation.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: So I just want to put that as a caveat,
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: like I may be saying something outdated. I don't realize
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: any and I have to do an episode of what
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: was I feel like at least every two years to
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: come back to learn the new terms and what that
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: marginalized group may think is offensive, even though people may
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: have tried to use it as a better way. So
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: all that, I just had to put that there. Now, Okay,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: that sidebar out of the way. Here's some things to know.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: The trans community has always been a target for conservative
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Christian groups, and the reason has everything to do with
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: power and fear mongering. In fact, in a focus on
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: the Family article, which we have already noted as a
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: type of hate group with a very strategic method of
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: turning the nation into a Christian national estate. We talked
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: about them previously, and while we are talking about focusing
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: the family, Yes, this is going to have some offensive ideology.
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  Speaker 3: Please understand that they point out quote patterns that might
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  Speaker 3: be causing confusion and children, and again not my words,
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: this is how they're putting it. And by the way,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: the article is titled a Biblical View on Transgender Identity,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: A Primer for Parents and Strugglers. Yeah, and some of
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  Speaker 3: those patterns include the breakdown of family, abuse or abandonment
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  Speaker 3: from parents, trauma survivors, or they have mental illness quote unquote,
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  Speaker 3: they are in LGBT influences, so they're watching a lot
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: of LGBT influencers. They are showing porn or watch porn,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: and they're a victim of sexual abuse. I think it's
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  Speaker 3: obvious that there's a pattern here on what they're trying
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  Speaker 3: to blame transgenderism on as what just in any like
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: queer community on they really really have been onto this, like, oh,
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  Speaker 3: they've been exploited and they've been abused and all these things.
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  Speaker 3: And Annie and I've already previously talked about this, how
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: trauma is there short short, sure, but it's not the cause,
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: because if it was the cause, I feel like there'd
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  Speaker 3: be way more everybody should be trans are queer.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Just like.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: And in that same article, they mentioned gender dysphoria, but
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: they also focus on rapid onset gender dysphoria, which is
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: a controversial and recent hypothesis that has not been substantiated
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: by the science community, and in fact, many have discussed
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: the limited and inconsistent study and the methodology of it.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: But organizations like Focus on the Family really jumped on board.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Here's how they defined it. Quote. An increasing social phenomenon
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  Speaker 2: affects teens and adults who have identified with their own
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  Speaker 2: biological sex for years, then decide they want to change
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  Speaker 2: genders and sometimes alter their bodies. This developmental crisis, seen
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: especially among adolescents, is seemingly associated with peer contagions such
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: as social media influencers celebrating the ideology of gender fluidity,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: peers embracing transgender behavior as popular in trendy and as
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: an avenue for social celebration, or unique recognition clubs sponsored
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: with public school systems to promote acceptance of the lesbian, gay, bisexual,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: and transgender LGBT identity framework.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Right again, hint, we see a pattern here. And as
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: we said earlier, this is not an accredited diagnosis or theory.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Like I remember when I was reading THEO Like, that's
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: not a thing. What is this? So here's a quote
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: from Scientific American, the American Psychological Association, and sixty one
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: other healthcare provider organizations signed a letter in twenty twenty
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  Speaker 3: one denouncing the validity of a rapid onset gender dysphoria
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: or ROGD as a clinical diagnosis, and a steadily growing
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: body of scientific evidence demonstrates that it does not reflect
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: transgender adolescent experiences and that quote social contagion is not
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: causing more young people to seek gender affirming care. Still,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: the concept continues to be used to us to fight
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: anti trans legislation across the US, and the article goes
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: on quoting a professional quote to even say it's a
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: hypothesis at this point, based on the paucity of research
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: on this, I think is a stretch, says Eli Coleman,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: a former president of the World Professional Association for Transcendent Help.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, this concept is being widely used by churches
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: and politicians to create these harmful anti trans bills and propaganda.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: According to trans legislation dot Com, there are currently eighty
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: three anti trans bills that have been passed and three
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: hundred and sixty six that are still active, and many
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: of them include felony charges for guardians, medical professionals, and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: businesses that allow drag shows. And again, there are bills
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that are going after the education system as well that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: revolve around anti trans rhetoric. But with that, there are
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: many Christian groups and organizations that disagree with this tactic.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Here are some quotes from a recent PBS article. Faith
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  Speaker 2: leaders who sport transgender rights bristle at the use of
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: religious rhetoric to marginalize trans people. As a Christian leader,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: it's horrifying to me that Christianity and the Bible are
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: being used by the religious right to bludgeon people through
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: these many bills, said Serene Jones, the president of Union
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Theological Seminary in New York City. To use religious language
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: like that is in an abomination, she said. They are
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: threatening the lives and well being of so many people
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: around the US and the world. And here's another one.
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  Speaker 2: The leader of one of the largest mainline Protestant denominations,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the Reverend Elizabeth Eaton of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: has condemned the anti trans bill as an attack on
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: trans people's humanity. While members of our church hold various
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: convictions regarding gender, the teaching of our church supports legislation
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: and policies to protect every person's human dignity, and civil rights.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Eton said in a recent statement, our church teaches that
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: we affirm transgender and non binary siblings as God's children.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: And the level of false narratives and moral objections that
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: are being used to enact these laws are unfortunately working,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: with many white conservative Christians believing the false theories such
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: as the rapid onset gender dysmorphia and willing to use
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: politics to control what they fear is the end of
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: a good old days, which we're about to talk about
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: in a bit.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, which does bring us to a larger
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: conversation of religion and politics, and more specifically Christian nationalism.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So we've talked already about the hazards of Christian
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: nationalism and the opinions of many when they hear the
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: words in in itself and the association. Of course, there
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: are many who believe that the country was always intended
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: on being a Christian nation once again forgetting the idea
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: of religious liberty. But we also know that the plans
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: were made up by white men of power, so whatever
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: keeps them in power is most likely the intent for
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: this still very young nation.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Right, But according to one report from the Public Religion
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Research Institute, a nonpartisan research organization. Only one in ten
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: truly adhere to the strict principles of the Christian nationalist
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Here's what they said quote. To be sure, most Americans
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: are not Christian nationalists, we find that just one in
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: ten Americans may be characterized as strong adherence to Christian
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: nationalist principles. Yet for both men and women, the same
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: percent ten percent qualify as adherents, and approximately two in
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: ten qualify as Christian nationalism sympathizers eighteen percent of men
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: and twenty percent of women. And they go on writing
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: about the roles of women in this type of structure.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Among Christian nationalism adherents, there is a strong correlation with
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the notion that women are the weaker sex. We find
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: that nearly seven to ten adherents, sixty nine percent agree
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: that quote. In a truly Christian family, the husband is
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the head of the household and his wife submits to
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: his leader. By contrast, two thirds sixty four percent of
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Americans overall disagree with that sentiment. Given that Christian nationalists
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: endorsed the biblical view of male headship, it should perhaps
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: not be surprising that more than six and ten Christian
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: nationalism adherents sixty six percent also believe that society as
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: a whole has become too soft and feminine, and more
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: than two thirds believe that society seems to punish men
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: just for acting like men.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, and man. Why is it that if it's such
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: a small point of view, we've heard it so much,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: you know, like literally they're saying, sixty four percent of
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: those people are like no, no, no, no, no. Literally, ten
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: percent believe this level. Twenty percent may sympathize with it,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: and I find that fascinating, But that we hear that
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: the loudest Again, I think we've talked about this many
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: times and how loudly they do speak, and they try
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: to push that narrative. But if this is true, which
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: they are a prestigious research center, then we know that
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: by far most people are like what right, But we
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: hear it so much we start to believe that maybe
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: it's true. I just I wonder, like the amount of
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: people who really bought into this idea and has gotten
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: so loud hasn't been since the beginning of like the
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: in cell groups growing bigger and bigger and bigger and
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: growing with social media or like the platforms, And therefore
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: this is spread so loudly, and maybe like what we're
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: looking at with this type of narrative is based on
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: the growth of that type of misinformation and stiff spreading online.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: That's a whole different conversation, I know, but it just
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: kind of popped him out of the head. I was like, hmm,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: there's a correlation, which is why Bridget has a whole
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: show about it. But still, but I just wondered. So unsurprisingly,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: some of the biggest supporters of Christian Nationalists are very
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: loud women. And please don't take that to me. He's
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: saying that women shouldn't be loud, but it just seems
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: to be the very over the top vocal people think
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Green, who literally chases people down streams in
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: their face and ironically claims the whole godly wife ideals
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: with two of these women in public offices, going through
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: divorces and very controversial relationships currently including like diddling each
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: other in front in like a public audience at a
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: Broadway show. Yeah, so he's going like, is that already
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: or that just sad? Green was even quoted as saying
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: we came from Adam's rib. God created us with his hands.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: We may be the weaker sex. We are the weaker sex,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: but we are our partners. Our husband's wife again, she's divorced, y'all.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: She left him for a man that she met at CrossFit.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Is it ironic or is it that it's still of
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the entire episode here at all?
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: But yeah, literally having that and as one of the things.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: But we have seen how women have been at the
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: forefront and pushing this narrative and the patriarchal systems as well,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: all in the name of Jesus. Tradwives and many other
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: movements that have heavily pushed the white Christian agenda are
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: the base of many of the men and organizations who
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: again push to bring this type of ownership to the country.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: And we've talked about them before when we talked about
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: the women behind these movements, which probablybe we should bring
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: back out. It could be a subset of the series.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it seems to be a whole conversation about
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: who actually is controlling this. I will say there was
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: an ironic article from a Christian organization who was like,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: women need to be in charge because da da da
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: da da, And he was trying to be funny, and
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: it was kind of funny, but at the same times
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: like is he being for real? Because that's actually a
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: smart way to go right. I mean, we've seen it
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: for liberty and Mom's demand, all these They are a
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: forceful organization in these movements and we've seen it. And
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: a part of this push is the fear inducing tactic
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: that morality is lost. Many of the conservatives have loudly
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: proclaimed that liberals are ruining the country or has my
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: mother said to me, I've become one of those people
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: trying to ruin this country. This is in regards to
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: me being on a feminist podcast, and she told my
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: father this when he was trying to get her to
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: stop talking, literally like she's the reason. I was like, oh,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: I'm putting me in a third person now, isn't that?
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: And it's working. My mother again as an example, we
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: figured things out, but we don't talk about things. But
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: with that there are more likely to lean harder into
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: their conservative ideals and seek to blame others. Here's a
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: quote from the News dot Berkeley dot edu article. In
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: a twenty nineteen speed, then US Attorney General William P.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Barr warned that the rise of a militant secularism is
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: causing a moral upheaval reflected in violence, drug use, and
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: pregnancy outside of marriage, and can you see what they're
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: doing in this quote? He says. Quote we are told
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: we are living in a post Christian era, said bar
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: a Catholic. I don't know why I'd say that. Way,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: there you go, But what has replaced the Judeo Christian
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: moral system? What is it that can fill the spiritual
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: void in the hearts of the individual person, and what
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: is a system of values that can sustain human social life.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: The fact is that no secular creed has emerged capable
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: of performing the role of religion. But the critique is
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: an expression of nostalgia for an imagined Golden Age, an age,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: said Stall, a contributor for Berkeley and a professor that
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: never existed. The fiction that some people are trying to
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: build is that there's a singular conservative Christianity that had
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: a hate in the past and that can be reclaimed
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: now and used to fashion a new American society.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: She explained.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Some people think we should have returned to the nineteen
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: fifties or the seventeen nineties. Those are very clearly moments
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: in which racial inequality and racial hierarchies are enshrined in law.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: And yet we're gonna talk a little more about that
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: in a minute. But again, I think that's such a
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: great point, and I really do want to come back
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: to that later. Probably had a whole different context, but
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: the fact that people have this imagined, ideal, idealized thing
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: of like this is the perfect time and this was
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: then amazing time of family. There's never been such a thing.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: There's always been outright war due to religion. There's always
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: been colonialism and violence because of religion. There's been fighting
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: within denominations. The Southern Baptist and Baptists split how many times.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Catholicism in itself has split how many times, And it's
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: because of the disagreement of what is the perfect time
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: or what is the perfect religion. And I find that
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: fascinating that there is the one thing that's been uniting
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: the far right is do you remember those good old
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: days which never existed, and try to get back to
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: the good old days?
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Right? It is very imagined.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, huh, the danger of nostalgia everyone, And it is
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: these people who are pushing to change the political landscape today.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: According to a February twenty twenty three MPR article more
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: than half of Republicans actually support Christian nationalism. Here's a
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: quote from that article. According to a new survey from
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: the Public Religion Research Institute and the Brookings Institution, researchers
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: found that more than half of Republicans believe the country
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: should be a strictly Christian nation, either adhering to the
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: ideals of Christian nationalism. Twenty one percent are sympathizing with
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: those views thirty three percent and they continue. Christian nationalism
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: is a worldview that claims the US is a Christian
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: nation that the country's laws should therefore be rooted in
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Christian values. This point of view has long been most
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: prominent and white evangelical spaces, but lately it's been getting
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: lip service in Republican ones too. During an interview at
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: a Turning Point USA event last August, Representative Marjorie Taylor
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Green from Bucan, Georgia said party leaders need to be
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: more responsive to the base of the party, which she
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: claimed is made up of Christian nationalist We need to
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: be the party of nationalism, she said. I am a
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Christian and I say it proudly. We should be Christian nationalist.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Right can you see who the face of Christian nationalism
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: is at this point. Yeah, I think she's one of
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: the biggest faces for it because she's so damn allowed.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: In many of the articles we found had at least
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: one quote from Green to represent what some of the
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: politicians are referred to when they say or when they
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: talk about going taking the country again. Again, very fascinating.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: And so those numbers, again we want to kind of emphasize,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: although it sounds a little different from the previous numbers,
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: it's not because they're counting those who are supporters and sympathizers,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: and it also Republicans. So just from a reminder that
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: they're talking about specific, selective groups and it makes me sad.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: And again I don't know they truly understand what that is.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, but many Christians are also opposed to
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: this type of narrative. In a christianity dot com article,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: they talk about some of the dangers of this type
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: of foundation and they write about three reasons why it
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: is dangerous. Number one, Christian nationalism is a quest for
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: political power rather than an embodiment of the Christian mission.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: And here they write about the constant graph for power
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: supremacy quote, Christian nationalism, far from being a missional effort
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: to make the name and way of Jesus known in America,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: is fundamentally a battle for cultural recognition and legal privilege.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: And they continue saying, since Christian nationalists believe that the
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: nation itself is at stake, virtues such as kindness, gentleness,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: and compassion can be placed aside if doing so will
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: advance the cause of taking the country back.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: And so this is number two. Christian nationalism is as
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: unconstitutional as it is unbiblical, so they explain. While it
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: is enough that Christian nationalism is a quest for power
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: and control at odds, with the New Testament's depiction of
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Christ's kingdom being quote not of this world, it is
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: worth noting that it's also unconstitutional. And if Christian nationalists believe,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: as many do, that the founding documents of America are
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: divinely inspired, or at least firmly Christian, then advocating for
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: the violation of those documents become a self defeating argument.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: And it goes on to say, seeking to privilege Christianity
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: above other religions violates this value, which Christians have certainly
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: benefited from, and many of whom have fought preserve. Protecting
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: religious liberty is foundational to respecting the dignity of other
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: humans created in the image of God. It also protects Christians.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: If religious liberty were to be weakened or gutted, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: leaders who disagree with Christian doctrine were elected, the opportunity
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: for government persecution of Christians would, for the first time
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: in our nation's history, be real instead of merely imagined.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: And I think that's such a great point. I really
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: this is something that I may actually have to be
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: bringing up to my parents, which I've done before because
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: I talked to them about when we Mitt Romney was
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: running for office, if they were willing to vote for
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Home I'm like, you know, he's a Mormon, right, And
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: they're like yeah. I was like, so if we come
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: to the point that we're allowing someone to dictate religion,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: what if he does everything based on his beliefs, which
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: my parents are like, oh my god, what same thing
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: as with Catholic president. I was like, what about that?
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Because they are very opposed to Catholicism. I don't think
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: they understand what Catholicism is, but they are very opposed
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: to it. But that conversation is you really can't understand
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: what is happening, and you're really banking and thinking that
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: all they're all your people who you don't even like.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Southern Baptists. My parents were firmly against me going to
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: a Southern Baptist church because they are not Southern Baptists.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: They thought they were too snoppy and not religious enough.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: So I was, like, you don't even like them. What
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: has happened? They do, They've changed since then, But like,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: that's the level of divide and opposition that the denominations
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: had that they don't. They oppose each other so much
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: that they are willing to say this way is better.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: So I find that interesting that like, you are setting
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: yourself up to be persecuted as well, that you've truly
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: never been.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Right, And that brings us to number three. Christian nationalism
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: is inextricably connected with xenophobia and conspiracy theory. Yes, the
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: author acknowledges this as well. They write, Christian nationalism is
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: meant to privilege a particular set of cultural values held
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: by the founding generation of America, a culture of which
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: people of any and every national or ethnic origin can assimilate. Nevertheless,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: at a popular level, Christian nationalism almost invariably devolves into
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: rhetoric and language that has elements of white supremacy, discrimination,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: and xenophobia. And that is because by its very nature,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: the Christian nationalist definition of Christian culture is co located
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: with white culture.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I think as we look at the entirety of our episodes,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: we see that as the common theme, the hierarchy and power,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: that is the basis and motives for many, led by
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: those in power, followed by many because of the conspiracy theory,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: and I think we also have to acknowledge and recognize
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: that the setup is for white cis hetero men period,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: followed by white women because this is what they see
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: as the ultimate power. I can with that false narrative
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: that Jesus was white, He wasn't married, He was technically
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: asexual like in everything, if anything, he never had interest
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: with women, He never had interest in men. He had
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: interest in one thing only And if we're going biblically,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: and that's just to like love God and move on
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: and that's it. Like even with his preachings, it was
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: always very gentle and it was action. It was rarely
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: in words. And we see the words. Don't get me wrong,
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: we see the red when I mean by that you
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: see read writing for Jesus' words in the Bible. But
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: the majority of the time we see his actions and
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: his follows. Whether it was feeding children, feeding people, whether
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: it's saying silent and meditating. We see so many things,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: whether it's taking a whip and going after those who
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: would try to profit off of his words and profit
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: off of things. That's the only time he ever got mad.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: I still love that. Like part of that is like
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: the only time he ever got mad was very methodical
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: because he had to like literally put together a whip
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: and then he just went after those who were taking
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: advantage and of the others with fear mongering, saying, if
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: you want to truly be in heaven, if you want
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: to be in good graces, you'll buy these sacrifices. That
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: was it. And he was like, wait, what this is
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: not what's negated. So I find that again fascinating that
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: many of people don't want to hear that.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: I have my opinions about Paul. We know, it's very
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: very like I feel like I'll have a battle with
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: a dude. It's fine, But I just I think there's
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: so many things to this conversation that is all together
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: left out. But what we're talking about here, what we're
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: talking about in the past nine ten eleven episodes, is
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: the dangers of these conspiracy theories that have taken hold.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: And yeah, morality, the basis of morality is a conspiracy theory,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: this idea of the rapid onset body dysmorphia conspiracy like that,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: there's nothing else, there's nothing that they want to blame
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: things in order to have an excuse of ways to
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: get rid of things that you can't as well as
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: to not put yourself in a place of holding yourself
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: accountable that what you're doing is unkind and inhumane.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Right, And I think for so long, and this is
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: my personal experience, but I bet a lot of you
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: can relate. For so long, it just wasn't a thing
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: that you did. You didn't say you weren't religious, you
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: didn't criticize religion because it was viewed as this moral thing.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: So there's something wrong with you morally if you have
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: a question about it or you don't agree with it,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: and so it just sort of we haven't talked about
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: it for so long, and I like that we're talking
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: about it more now, because for a while I was
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: too afraid to even bring it up.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Even on the show.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: When I first started, it would be like, well, no,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: we're talking about religion today. We'd have a whole conversation
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: about it and how mad people were going to get.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: And I think, like going back to that good old
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: day thing that you were talking about, Samantha, I feel
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: like people who don't even maybe you haven't even read
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: the Bible, maybe don't even remember it, but they use
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: it as like, oh, this was a better time. The
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Bible is this moral like unsaleable moral.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Thing, right, and you.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Are going against it and therefore you are wrong, when
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: really they either didn't read it, didn't get it purposely
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: didn't get it, like yeah.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Right, the taking of one Biblical verse and then using
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: it as your theme, and then you come back to
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: look at it and you're like, oh, there are so
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: many things that I remember about you are taking that
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: way out of context. I need you. There's one about
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: pretty much God will not give you more than you
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: can handle type of thing. And then like just all
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: these things, which is a nice sentiment, it is a
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: nice sentimentation is beyond that that there's so many into
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: it where he says like He's building you up and
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: it's gonna put you on the brink of all these things.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Like there's so many conversations that you're like, that's not
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: what that means, though, and then having people use that
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: to people maybe by the answer and are about to
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: die or people who lost somebody, You're like, that's not,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: that's not why would I want to believe God? Like
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: that's again for those who need that, who have that
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: passage as the thing that that really caps them through,
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: that's amazing. I hope you do. But once again, understand
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: that that's not always reassure as it is, and it's
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: also taking out of context, Like there's so many conversations
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: where that if you'll do this one thing, then God
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: will bless you. This is God's blessing and if you
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: get good things and then this is obviously God blessing you,
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: in which you're like, but so many bad people get
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: good things? Why why is that happening? So many good
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: people have so many bad things. Of course, that's the
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: constant argument about going against God, and that's always like
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: a focal point for any Christian movies.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: And then how they rise above. Something could always happen.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work that have faith even when the americles
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: don't happens about the.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And we're not trying to like denegrate that
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: in any way in that saying that believing that is
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: a bad thing or whatever whatnot, if it's helped you,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: But the conversation is that you're using that against people,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: which has happened more often than not. And then also
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: this also has been a way of let's say, well,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: this rich person, it was so blessed, must be so
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: godly and then being able to write on that Trump
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: is the perfect example of that. He's got all these
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: things because God has blessed them, and now he's in
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: he's the image of God, which still just blows my mind.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: Like if you automatically placed him as one of the
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: most godly people, I don't trust you as a Christian.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: You are not truly a Christian. Like it's sorry, that's
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: just that that's going to be automatic number one for
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: anybody outside of Christian reality. Religion, which the whole purpose
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: of Christianity is both grows and understand is to convert
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: others to save people, which is colonialism. And that's a
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: whole conversation that we're not getting into today. But that's
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: the whole point. So if that's your whole point, all
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: of a sudden it's changed to oh no, it's to
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: say what's mine? Are you really Christian?
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: And I just feel like there's so much hypocrisy and
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: picking and choosing of like yeah, what versus or this
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: is definitely true that other ones not true though, and
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: what you kind of recite back and and it's definitely
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: been weaponized in that context as well of yeah, like oh,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: this person's rich, they must be great.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I remember when because I stopped.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I think I was in seventh grade when I was like,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not religious anymore.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I don't believe in this.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: And my one of my good friends was very, very religious,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and the Rock War had just happened, and I was
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: kind of like publicly against it, and she sat down
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: in front of me and she took my hands in
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: her hands and she gave me some Bible verse about
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: how it was like necessary, and I just remember sitting
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: there like, wait, but that's kind of what's happening in
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: the Republican Party is it's like that it's like this
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: strange here's this Bible verse. Let me make it fit
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: into what I want you to believe in what I
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: want to do, even if that's not.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: What it means there was intended. Yeah right.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I also read some articles about how liberals will never
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: truly be able to defeat any of these conversations. Really
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: ever like went out in any of this conversation is
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: because their belief is so centered around words that you
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: can't really take apart because it's there obviously, and you
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: can read the context and you could disagree with them
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: and tell them like I've had many a conversation even
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: when I was really really deep into all of these things,
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: where you can tell me this is this is what
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: it was meant for me, this is how it was
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: spoken to me. And me, as a person who actually
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: studied the Bible for so long and wrote so many
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: like flowery messages to myself and others about believing in
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: the strength of these things, I would have a hard
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: time sitting my parents down like this is inaccurate. This
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: is why it's inaccurate. And I've tried, actually because I
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: don't and I'm not trying to convert my parents because
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: they're happy. I'm not necessarily trying to convert them, but
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: of course it has strained our relationship because of the
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: way they've used it against me. But I came in,
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: I was like, you know, this is not right. She's like, oh,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: your dad has a great explanation about why you're wrong,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: and these act these are actually correct. And I was like,
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: but do you remember they finally got away from King
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: James about ten years ago, but they were absolutely appalled
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: when I brought in a different version of the Bible,
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: saying that that was blasphemous. And I was like, oh
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: my god, what is what is happening? And to like
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: they have graduated from that to telling me like, theologically, no,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: they're not wrong and it is historically accurate. And then
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: I'm like, do you know about the chippogryphics, which is
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: the additions that they found? You know about the Dead
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Sea scrolls that has additional words in there, and it's
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: conflicting and they don't like this, and they like this
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: there are things that are missing, But then you keep
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: telling me that I'm the wrong one for explaining the theory.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: And again they find that education is sin and that's
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: what's ruining the country as well, Like they blame education
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: for being used instead of faith, and it's just kind
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: of like, Okay, faith is a nice belief as long
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: as it gives you comfort when you need it, and
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: that's fine, but when you use it to hold it
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: against other people, to blame other people and say that
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: things like the queer community or the transgender community are
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: destroying something when it has nothing to do with you. Again,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: my parents have never actually met a transperson. I think
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: they've met a non binary person and they're just like full,
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: okay and that's the end. But they somehow, somehow it
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: is affecting them.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I've told you before.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: I had my teacher in seventh grade told me it's
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: like I'm watching you walk off a cliff and I
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: just want to save you. And I was like, right,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: leave me be, I shall walk off myself.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: I had a coworker sit in my office, she was
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: my supervisor actually tell me. She's like, I just so
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: scared for you, and I was like, well, if you
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: makes you feel better, I got baptized and that's whatever
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: I seems to take your work. So you know, either way,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm not trying to take that too lightly,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: but it's true. I both fully believe that at one
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: point I had been quote unquote saved by Jesus, and
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: I accepted him into my heart, had a testimony about it.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Everything I did mission work, I got baptized, I got
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: sent out letters. I try to colonize people. I'm sorry
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: in general, and all those things. I try to do
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: it in works, in social work, I try to do
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: all the things. So technically, if you truly believed salvation,
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: is that permanent. As you've seen, I'm good. But as
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: I've come to see many things, and the horror and
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: the heartbreak that I seen people be in the name
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: of religion, the amount of hate I've seen in the
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: name of religion, I don't want to be a part
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: of that. I don't ever want to be a part
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: of that. Again, I'm very regretful of the mission work
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: that I did that wasn't about actually helping, like you know,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: working with underprivileged people and trying to actually do some
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: good things with children who are neglected and abuse like.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: Outside of that, I'm really regretful of my work. When
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: I'm sitting here telling you, Jesus is the you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: do these things become more white? Essentially to be saved
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: and that was what was happening, and I regret that fully.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: I regret it in every way. I don't regret the
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: relationships I'm a made and some of the great people
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: that I've made, and if it helps them feel better
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: like people, I definitely had worked with people who had
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: eating disorders, suicidal ideation, a lot of bad problems at
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: home that really clung to religion and I get that.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: I get that, and they will say that they feels
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: like they saved them. I get that the same way
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: when I was suicidal at a teenage, having to look
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: into saying showing that I had to be grateful it
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: saved me being having low self esteem and giving faith
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: in UH and gratefulness was a way that saved me.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: I truly believe that. Do I believe that religion in itself,
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: like the idea of the Holy Spirit. Maybe that's not
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: necessarily m H. So that's a whole different conversation. But
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: there are so many things where again I've had just
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: many scars and trauma through religion as well. That's kind
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: of like I could have done with that.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: That I think a lot of people could have.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, this whole series kind of proves that, and yeah,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: that's definitely a personal matter, but so much of it
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: happens when you're young.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I still am.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Like when I was kind of being bratty about it
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: in seventh grade and I stopped believing. I said, would
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: you believe this if you're parents told you that.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I was really annoying? I was a really annoying kid.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I couldn't admit it.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I know we talked about it before,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: but it's just such a it's a very intense thing
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: to teach child where you think you're going to go
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: to hell, and it has so much like sexist like
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: to be young and to be like, oh, well, women
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: ruined everything.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I guess I'll deal with that. And
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I like, it's just a lot. It's a lot. It is.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Well, we talked about that in a previous episode, or
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: we talked about is this a form of child abuse?
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: Is this a form of child trauma that children carry
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: for the rest of their lives. And it's true that's
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: become a thing that was rooted in how our children
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: were disciplined was through fear and guilt. It very much
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: passes along with a religious ideal of that as well, yeah,
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: and I think when it comes to what is happening
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: in the world and in this country as a whole,
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: it's unnerving right now. Maybe it's because I'm an adult
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: and I'm paying attention more, I don't know, but it
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: feels like it's causing more unraveling. And if I were
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: to believe anything, I'm like, yeah, this could be the
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: beginning of apocalypse in that Biblically we see a false God,
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: and this seems like this could be it, and is
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: coming from the right wing side.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: It's very frightening. And I will also say as we
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: wrap up this series that there have been plenty of
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: articles that we've talked about in here that I have
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: read because of now we're getting all these updates about it,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: where people are trying to change things, that things are progressing.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: My mom's chur just having this whole thing that is
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: fascinating for me to listen when she tells me about
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: kind of protecting trans people and even entering like classes
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: about how the proper terminology and stuff.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting like that.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's a huge backlash, but there is
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: also people who are really like, no, that's not what
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: We should be more welcoming. That's what it's about.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I hope we've done as many like sad
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: or sarcastic comments or jokes as we might make. We
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: know that there are plenty of people who are not
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: like that, and I hope we've highlighted several good ones.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: And I hope y'all have paid attention to that too,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: because we do. We think like the last person who
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: wrote about the dangers of Christian nationalism to christianities, I'm like, huh,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: we could be friends because I love that he was
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: able to give this perspective and really really talk about
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: the minute details of it all. And I didn't even
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: put any of the biblical versus I heap used for
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: reference because again, we're not going to do that necessarily
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: for these contexts, because I didn't have time to research that. Again,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: we don't want to take things up of context for
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: anything but seeing those and there was plenty of articles
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: like I said, where it talks about we needed telling
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: other Christians to be vigilant about why this is false
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: narratives and you need to be careful of what you're
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: reading and what you're hearing. Trying to teach their own
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: so lots of great stuff out there. Again, we took
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: it out of Christianity dot Com, which we took a
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: few other articles out which we were like that. We
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: were opposed to this as well. So there's definitely the
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: good and bad and back and forth. And I think
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: that's a great thing to see and I was glad
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: to see it. I really hate that my algorithm is
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: so messed up and I wanted to be gone.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: That's why the mini series is ending everyone.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I just no, You've done a great job, Samantha.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Samantha really led the way on these, So thank you
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: for all the work that you did and for your.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Algorithm getting borked. We appreciate it.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: Sorry for the delays because I really didn't want to.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: It makes me sad, sor.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Right, I understand, I understand.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: We here we are, though we might we might post
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: we haven't done this in a while, but we might
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: post a playlist of all episodes, since I think we
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: started in March. We started a while. Don't judge me,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: there's no judgment. Just like, if you want to go
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: back and hear the whole thing, we might do that,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: so keep an eye out for that. But yes, In
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: the meantime, we have heard from a lot of you
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: who have thoughts about this, so keep those thoughts coming.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephanie and Mom's Stuff at
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Told You and TikTok same name. We have a tea
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: public store and a book you can get stuff you
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: should read books dot com.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: My mom read it, so that's that. She sent me
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: a kind message and I cried.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: And I have you had to talk about this, but she's.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Sent me a very nice message.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: And thanks as always your super producer Christina or executive
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: producer Maya and her contributor Joey Thanky. Thanks to you
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: for listening. Stefan Never Told You the production of iHeart Radio.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: out the heart Radio app Apple podcast, where you listen
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.