Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / John Cooper: Wimpy, Weak, And Woke; Truth vs. Destruction

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John Cooper: Wimpy, Weak, And Woke; Truth vs. Destruction · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
• 0:10
  defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
• 0:16
  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
• 0:19
  Hey guys, welcome, we've got a real treat for you today.
• 0:23
  We're going to talk about a book called Wimpy Week and Woke, and we are blessed to have
• 0:29
  John Cooper with us.
• 0:30
  Let me just read some of his bio.
• 0:32
  This is amazing.
• 0:33
  I'm so impressed with this man of God.
• 0:36
  He's a lead vocalist, bassist and songwriter, producer for Skillet.
• 0:40
  If you're not familiar with Skillet, one of the best-selling rock bands of the 21st century,
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  two-time Grammy-nominated, 17-time platinum band inducted to Pandora's Billionaire Club
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  after garnering two billion streams, and also to come a Billboard Music Award.
• 0:58
  They've got their breakout single Monster.
• 1:00
  I remember that when the ESPN was using it.
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  Anyway, John and his wife, Cory, have toured together for all of their 27 years of marriage.
• 1:09
  That's got to be a story.
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  And along with their two children, they're passionate about the truth of Christ defending
• 1:14
  and proclaiming the truth of Christ.
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  He's got a podcast, it's called Cooper Stuff Podcast.
• 1:21
  There are two skillet graphic novels, and John has written two amazing books that you've
• 1:26
  got to check out, friends.
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  The first one was called Awake and Alive to Truth, Best Selling Book, and I just checked
• 1:33
  over on Amazon.
• 1:34
  The recent book is also a best-selling book.
• 1:36
  It's called Wimpy Week and Woke How Truth Can Save America From Utopian Destruction.
• 1:43
  Welcome John Cooper to World View Matters.
• 1:47
  How's it going?
• 1:48
  It's so good.
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  I love the intro, too.
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  The topic off limits.
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  It sounds like a show for me.
• 1:54
  Exactly.
• 1:55
  That's why I'm so excited to talk to you, brother, because, of course, I've had Alisa
• 1:59
  Childers on, Frank Turrick, and a lot of the troublemakers for the Kingdom of God, a lot
• 2:03
  of apologists.
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  And I saw you on Eric Metaxas.
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  You and Cory were in the studio in New York.
• 2:09
  I'm going, Metaxas says Cooper, I got to get him on, but I want to go over to your Facebook
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  page.
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  You're just always stirring up trouble, John.
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  And by the way, friends, you can find John on Facebook.
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  It says, should pastors stay away from politics?
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  Brother, this is a drum I have been beating for two decades.
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  The pulpits have been silent on politics, and that's why progressive Christianity has
• 2:34
  taken off, and that's why there's so much confusion and deception.
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  So before we get into Wimpy Week and Woke, share a little bit about your heart for pastors
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  to address the issues that are affecting all of us.
• 2:47
  Well, you're right.
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  I mean, you see eye to eye on that is so important, because what has happened is that I don't know
• 2:55
  what exactly it is.
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  I'm sure there's a bunch of different people's explanations, whether it's that we tried
• 3:01
  to say, hey, let's make an evangelicalism that is so maybe ecumenical or so distilled
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  down.
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  You know, so distilled down that we can agree on this group of things, and then we don't
• 3:15
  have to fight about anything else.
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  And so because of that, we just stopped talking about morality.
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  I mean, really, all politics is morality applied.
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  So, you know, I don't know why we wouldn't be talking about what that means in the culture.
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  But now what you have is I think starting in the, I would say the mid 2010s, probably
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  2013, 2014, 2015, all of a sudden you had a lot of Christian pastors who were theologically
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  orthodox, who were also sort of open to Marxism, open to socialism, open to, they weren't
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  pro-choice, but they were sort of like, they weren't offended by the pro-choice movement.
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  Let's put it like that.
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  And they were sort of like, they're not offended by a lot of things.
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  They should absolutely be offended by.
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  And so because of that, you've just got, I call them normies.
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  We're normies.
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  We're lay people.
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  All we do is go to church.
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  We're raising our kids.
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  I want to live for Jesus, pastor, and EG to teach me how to live for Jesus.
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  I'm just doing the best I can.
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  I don't read Hebrew and Greek.
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  And what you had was them saying, I want you to teach me.
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  And then I think a lot of church leadership that said, hey, we're going to stay away from
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  that because that just makes people mad, it's divisive.
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  It doesn't matter.
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  We're all about the kingdom of God.
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  And I think they never quite realize that if you don't preach the full gospel message,
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  the full council of God, you may just end up with a country that has gone so delusional
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  and so chaotic that they don't even know that there's a difference between men and women,
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  between adults and children.
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  You know, I just saw a clip yesterday from Rebel News that's in Canada, I believe Rebel
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  News is about a 50 year old man who identifies as a 13 year old female.
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  He's a professor and he plays on sports teams against teenage girls.
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  So he identifies as a woman playing sports and then changes in their dressing room.
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  So I my question for pastors would just be simply this.
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  Do you think that Christ would have you, if it was 1850, do you think that Christ would
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  have you speak against Chatelle slavery?
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  If it was 1940, do you think that Christ would have you speak against the Holocaust with
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  Bonhoeffer?
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  Would you stand up with Bonhoeffer or is that not an issue of the gospel?
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  And if you would say, oh, I absolutely would have done it then, I would say then you must
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  do it now.
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  You just have to have the eyes to recognize the times we're living in.
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  Oh, brother, you said so much there and I absolutely agree.
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  Bonhoeffer, my goodness, silence in the face of evil is itself evil.
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  So a lot of pastors, they might mean well, John Cooper, but they want to be about the gospel.
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  But yeah, the saints are not being equipped and they're not being prepared for what's
• 6:08
  going on in the government run schools in Hollywood, corporations, most of the music industry.
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  But they want to preach the gospel, but they're not really, they're being inconsequential
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  for the kingdom.
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  So I really appreciate your voice and again, friends, we're talking to John.
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  We will talk more about the book Wimpy Week and Woke, but these are some issues that
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  I'm sure you tackle, I'm glad you brought up Marxism.
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  I believe social justice has been redefined and it's become a cancer in the church.
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  Go ahead and share whatever you'd like on that.
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  Oh, absolutely agreed.
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  Secular social justice really is just, you really could just call it Marxism applied if you
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  want to.
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  Maybe it'd actually be more accurate to say neo Marxism, so I don't know who cares about
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  these terms or not.
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  But the neo, sorry, the Marxist worldview, which is the view that everything in the world
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  is nothing more than power.
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  That's all that it is.
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  It's just power dynamics and you have oppressed groups of people and you have the oppressors
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  and everybody is broken up and that those groups.
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  What is a totalizing way to see the world?
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  And if Christians just understand, that's what Marx is saying, if you understand that
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  that is a totalizing worldview, then really anything that happens in the world is no longer
• 7:29
  a shock.
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  You know, remember a few pastor friends of mine hitting me October 8th and 9th of last
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  year after the Israel attack.
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  So remember the Israel attack was on October 7th, I believe.
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  Yes.
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  And so that's why Marx attacks Israel within gosh, 24, 48 hours.
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  You had American college students saying that they support Hamas.
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  They think it was a justified act.
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  They were praising Hamas.
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  So you had a lot of pastors going, we just don't understand how this is possible.
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  And I said, that's because you have not believed the Marxist worldview of oppressors
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  and oppress groups.
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  If you understand it, nothing that happens in the world will ever surprise you again.
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  Because that's how they see everything.
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  And so now social justice is viewed through that lens.
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  Why is that 50 year old man that identifies as a teenage girl allowed to do that?
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  Because he's oppressed.
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  Well, why is he oppressed?
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  Because he's a minority.
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  He's a minority group and of some sort.
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  So what they want is say, so therefore 99.9% of all the females have to say,
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  suffer because there is not equity for this one guy.
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  And so we're going to redefine everything in this system to help out this person that
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  is apparently oppressed and make everybody else's life worse.
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  And so there's no static metric of morality.
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  And that's the same reason I'll end with this.
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  I live in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
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  Three blocks from my house is where Kyle Rittenhouse shot three people, okay?
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  I can see it from my house.
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  This city was burned to the ground and churches in this city, including my own, that I love,
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  never spoke about it one single time.
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  They dare not speak out against the BLM movement because they have, in some degree, let that
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  disgusting Marxist worldview about oppressors oppressed permeate into the faith.
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  And they both can't live together.
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  That's where I have to say Christianity and secular social justice, Marxism, they cannot
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  both exist.
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  Absolutely.
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  Absolutely.
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  And by the way, we always call it the Black Lives Matter Global Foundation Network because
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  it is an organization that's worldwide.
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  And it is.
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  It is global.
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  It's not a new thing.
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  It didn't come up just because George Floyd was murdered.
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  This was waiting in the wings to be unleashed.
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  And unfortunately, Christians, we felt guilty.
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  It's like, yeah, I guess we better say, yeah, of course, Black Lives Matter, but people
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  were just not, they didn't do their due diligence.
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  They weren't informed.
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  I just had a pastor on last week from Southern Wisconsin who had some of his people go out.
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  They had guns.
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  They were out there protecting citizens.
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  We're protecting the local businesses out there.
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  But anyway, that's for another story, John.
• 10:27
  Let's talk about one word in your title, Wimpy Week and Woke.
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  When you said something earlier about the guy up in Canada, and one of the first thoughts
• 10:36
  was, where are the men?
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  Where are the men?
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  And where is the church?
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  Where are those who need to stand up?
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  Not only to this delusion and stand for truth, the truth of God's word, but to protect
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  women and children.
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  Where are the men in our culture?
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  What are your thoughts about that?
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  It's really, it's really beyond me.
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  I don't even know if I have the right words to say how passionately I feel about it.
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  And A, yes, where are men?
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  Now if one thing, men are hated, and that has been, of course, a work of the enemy for
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  all these years.
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  And the church has become so feminized that not even the church will even stand up for
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  the fact that it is good to be a man, God created men, God created women.
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  And they're both wonderful and we're both created in his image.
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  It's wonderful.
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  The church won't even stand for that.
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  The culture has just kind of let all these lies slowly erode us to the place that now
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  even Christian men will stand up.
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  I mean, I think of like, you know, John Knox or somebody, I think it was John Knox who
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  said something like, you know, trust God with all of your heart and keep your powder
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  dry.
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  You know, like, it's like, where are these people to where we used to believe that the godly
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  thing to do would be in the name of Jesus, we will not let you grown man go into that
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  little girl's dressing room.
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  And we're doing that because we love Christ and we because we love our neighbor.
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  But now to love your neighbor is transformed into allowing that grown man to do whatever
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  he wants to do because apparently Jesus was just so super polite.
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  He never hurt anybody's feelings and I hear this from these from Christians all the time.
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  They just everybody wanted to be around Jesus.
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  He was just so wonderful and amazing.
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  He never turned anybody away, always affirmed everyone.
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  And I'm just like, I don't even know what Bible you're reading, but I do believe with
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  all my heart, the Christian response is no, we do love our neighbor, which means it is
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  loving to put guardrails onto society and to promote the good.
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  Oh, man, praise God for that.
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  Absolutely.
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  I'm just thinking we've had former transgenders on former homosexuals on this program and
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  they say the loving thing to do is to tell others the truth, not to affirm a delusion
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  or a lie, but we'll continue when we come back from our break.
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  We're with John Cooper, the website John L Cooper dot com.
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  The book is called Wimpy Week and woke.
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  We'll be right back and World V matters.
• 13:16
  Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily.
• 13:19
  The world news biblically understood, stay informed at Harbinger's Daily dot com.
• 13:34
  Okay, so John Cooper, many people define woke differently.
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  And some say it's a boogeyman term.
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  So your definition of woke as it relates to your book Wimpy Week and woke.
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  Yes, in fact, you know what?
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  I just got this ready.
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  I didn't know you're going to ask me when I get ready.
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  I'm going to read from my book on page 45.
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  Are you ready?
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  Yep.
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  Carrying about the poor, hating racism, desiring to raise the standards of education
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  and minimize disparities between groups of people is not being woke.
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  In my view, these are the actions of people who have been rescued and changed by the gospel
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  of Jesus Christ.
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  A love for Christ will naturally be get a love for people.
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  It will also cause us to begin to hate the things that God hates such as racism and bigotry.
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  What makes Wokeness problematic is when we buy into the secular humanistic origin story
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  and telos of man that is biggest problem is trauma inflicted on him by his fellow man,
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  nature, psychological harm, etc.
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  And that man can fix his own problems without God's ways.
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  I read that long thing because people go, I care about the poor.
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  So you're saying I'm being woke.
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  No, no, no, no, no.
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  No, the Western civilization cares about the poor because of Christianity.
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  It's not like the secular world went out and just loved the poor.
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  That is what Jesus said to do.
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  That is what the apostles did.
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  That's what the New Testament church and the church throughout the ages has done.
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  What Wokeness does is it redefines what it means to be poor.
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  Woo, that's good.
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  Here's what I'm saying.
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  Bryce says to help the poor and the oppressed.
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  The secular social justice folks then redefine who is oppressed, the 50-year-old professor
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  who says he's a little girl.
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  He is now defined as the oppressed and we have to restructure society in order for him
• 15:27
  to have equitable outcomes as people who are 50 years old, who don't identify as little girls.
• 15:35
  So we have to make sure that he has all the same outcomes and they do this with everything,
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  but they also do it not as individuals, not to help.
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  In other words, if you say I really want to help, you know, let's say people of color.
• 15:48
  I really want to help people of color and education standards and so I'm going to spend money
• 15:53
  on after-school programs to help kids read in Yada Yada.
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  They don't care about the individuals.
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  They only care about the group dynamic and so whether that kid actually ever learns to read
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  or not doesn't really matter in their worldview.
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  All that they are trying to do is to create, to impose, I should say,
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  to impose some sort of national equity where everybody has the exact same thing,
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  which means that nobody is responsible for their own decisions and so
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  woke this redefines what it needs to be poor or oppressed and it does this group dynamic thing
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  and so what it ends up doing is actually supporting injustice, but they call it justice just like
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  BLM in my town. Why did churches not want to speak out?
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  Well, because they feel like if they don't speak out, if they speak out against BLM,
• 16:47
  they might be looked at as not caring about justice.
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  It doesn't matter that what BLM was doing was quiet on just burning down people's livelihoods,
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  putting people's lives at risk. So they support really horrible things and then they call it
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  justice and the church is just, we have no confidence in our moral voice because we have no
• 17:08
  confidence in the Bible any longer. We have redefined God's justice to whenever you put a word in
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  front of justice by the way, doesn't that mean it's something else? Yes, something other than
• 17:19
  like social justice, environmental justice. What do they call it? Reproductive justice. Oh my goodness.
• 17:26
  So you're taking any kind of a sin or movement and saying, let's put a nice word in front of
• 17:31
  justice and we can, you know, push our cause. But John, why is the revolution against America in
• 17:38
  reality, a revolution against Christianity? It's one of the topics in your book and then the broad
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  overview. Oh, this is so important and the reason this is so important is because a lot of
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  Christians today, even well-meaning really good-hearted Bible-believing Christians that I love.
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  I would say we are brothers, okay? And I think this is a good point to make. So it's not just like
• 18:01
  I've come and you're just beaten up on the everybody. This is so important. These are people that
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  love God. They want to do what the Bible says. They have been told over and over and over again
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  if they care about some of this stuff that they are being politically idolatrous or they are being
• 18:17
  Christian nationalist or they are trying too hard to make, you know, the kingdoms of this world,
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  the kingdom of God or something like that. You know, they have all these things. This is the reason
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  it's important for them to understand the destruction of the West, which is what we are in right now,
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  the destruction of male and female, the destruction of roles of fathers and mothers, the destruction
• 18:42
  of our society from capitalism to Marxism. The destruction of truth in our country, meaning
• 18:48
  that there are absolute moral standards that are true yesterday, today and forever, okay? The
• 18:54
  destruction of all of that to relativize morality. All those things may sound like political motives
• 19:01
  to destroy America, which they are. But what they really are going for is the destruction of
• 19:07
  Christianity. Christianity is seen as the enemy. And I've got quotes all throughout my book,
• 19:13
  just so people know, I have 650 footnotes in this book. Yeah, because I get really tired of
• 19:21
  Christian saying that I'm making this stuff up. And I keep trying to prove it and they're like,
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  that's just your opinion. I'm like, okay, 650 footnotes. You can read the original words from Karl Marx.
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  You can read Freud. You can read Nietzsche. You're reading these people and you realize
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  their war is not actually against America. Their war is against God. They do not like God.
• 19:45
  Well, they're all atheists. So they don't believe in God, but they hate them. It's kind of like,
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  I don't believe in them, but I hate them. And he is the reason this is what Christians don't
• 19:54
  understand. They believe that Christianity is the reason that people are suffering. Now,
• 20:01
  this is going to blow some people's minds because they haven't read the original work. But they
• 20:04
  actually believe the reason that people commit crimes is because they are suffering. Why are they
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  suffering? Because society puts restrictions on what they are allowed to do either sexually
• 20:17
  or to do with private property. And where do those ideas come from? They come from the Bible.
• 20:23
  Private property is a biblical thing all the way from Old Testament. You know, so they don't like
• 20:28
  that. And so they're against private property. Private property has to be abolished in Marxism.
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  Where does it come from? It comes from God. So God is actually the enemy. They do the same thing
• 20:38
  with sexual liberation, the sexual revolution, parenting, even the institution of marriage.
• 20:45
  Karl Marx hated the institution of marriage as do the sexual revolution people because they
• 20:51
  believe that it inhibits man sexually. And that's the reason that man commits crimes, according to
• 20:58
  Freud, of course, because he is not satisfied sexually. And you can't be satisfied sexually if
• 21:04
  you're just married to one person. And so marriage is bad. Everything evil in this world is because
• 21:10
  of Christianity. So if we kill God, if we kill Christianity, and we create a new humanistic
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  social program to lead us to utopia for equity. So everybody has the same stuff, communism,
• 21:23
  etc. Then everybody's going to be happy. But the number one thing you have to do is kill God.
• 21:28
  So the destruction of America is not actually just political. It is spiritual, not because we confuse
• 21:35
  America with the kingdom of God, but because America represents a system of belief grounded in
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  the ethics of the Bible. Well, in this utopian postmodern world, it doesn't sound like Christians
• 21:48
  could exist because they they want to attack God and Christianity. But what about the representatives?
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  What about his ambassadors? What about those who truly want to live? They are already we know
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  they're intolerant toward the faith. So how does that work out, John Cooper? If there's no objective
• 22:04
  truth, how do postmodern think we can all live together in this? By the way, utopia, that's your
• 22:11
  subtitle, how truth can save America from utopian destruction. And so just go ahead and share your
• 22:17
  thoughts on that. I would love to hear it. You know what? This is beautiful. You just wrapped it
• 22:21
  all up in a bow because I'm going to give you the answer to that, which is also the conclusion,
• 22:26
  like what I consider to be a positive vision, because Christians go, okay, then what could I do
• 22:31
  about it? You know, so for anybody who wants to to to read that conclusion, go to john l Cooper.com.
• 22:38
  That's where you get the physical book. Here's the answer. You are dead right. This idea that we
• 22:43
  can all live together in some sort of pluralistic utopia where everybody has their own truth and
• 22:51
  nobody accepts on somebody else's values, et cetera. That is an impossibility. And we're seeing
• 22:57
  it play out in America. How do you live in America? When half the people say, I believe in human
• 23:04
  rights, I believe that every single human is born in the image of God and is worthy of individual
• 23:10
  liberties. Therefore, I oppose abortion. And the other half of the people say, well, no, actually,
• 23:16
  I believe in everybody's right to do anything they want to with their own body. And because of that,
• 23:22
  it is unjust to put any laws in place that make it where I can't, you know, in the in the life of
• 23:29
  my own boy child, you can't actually continue to live like that forever. It's it's going to come
• 23:35
  into every single aspect. So what they have to do, this pluralistic vision, they have to finally
• 23:40
  get to a place where they say, okay, here's here's the deal. John, here's you'll see, you can
• 23:45
  believe in God if you want to. It just needs to be privatized. You can believe it in your heart.
• 23:51
  You can even believe it in your home, but you may not say it on Twitter. You may not say it on,
• 23:57
  on, you know, TV. You may not put it on social media. You may not teach your kids these things
• 24:03
  because the state is going to decide what your kids have to learn at state sponsored schools.
• 24:09
  So you privatize your religion, but in public, you have to admit certain things that now this
• 24:16
  is happening in communist China right now. They're at a place now where they go, hey, you can be a
• 24:21
  Christian if you want to. As long as you publicly say that President Xi Jinping is the head of
• 24:28
  the church is long as he's the head of the church, you can believe in Christ, all you want to,
• 24:32
  which of course is a blasphemy, which we could never actually say Christ is the head of the
• 24:37
  church, right? So you're absolutely right in this utopia. We will not be allowed to go to church
• 24:43
  and worship the one true king of kings, Lord, Lord Jesus Christ in the way we believe.
• 24:49
  But that actually answers the question for what is the positive vision, which you just said,
• 24:54
  how is it that we change the world for Christ? Do we do it through through bullets and bombs and
• 25:00
  guns? Absolutely not. That won't work. And that's not what we're even called to do. We are ambassadors
• 25:07
  of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are salt and light. And what do we do? We taste good to the world.
• 25:13
  We show the truth and the order of the world in a world chaos. And the world becomes convinced
• 25:20
  through the power of the spirit. Of course, that this word is true and one by one by one by one
• 25:27
  that Kimukov starts like a little mustard seed and it grows and it grows and grows into a more
• 25:33
  and more people begin to say, we want the truth of Christ to be public because there's so many of us
• 25:39
  we believe it. It's got to be public and it becomes more public as it grows. And eventually we say,
• 25:46
  you know what? We have some ideas that we frankly think should be privatized. You're weird stuff
• 25:52
  about being a grown stinking man at 50 years old and you think you're a little girl. You can
• 25:57
  privatize that in your home if you want to. But you may not bring that into our public school system
• 26:03
  and go into our kids locker rooms. We have some things that need to be privatized. And the Lord
• 26:08
  Jesus Christ will teach us what those things are through his word. Amen. And thank you for bringing
• 26:13
  up salt and light. We've kind of lost the idea that we are supposed to take the faith beyond
• 26:18
  church walls and influence culture for Christ and righteousness. And this is the battle we're in.
• 26:23
  It has a spiritual battle at its root and I know you've spoken about that as well. John,
• 26:28
  I admire you because I've been in music myself and to do what you've done, I'm sure you've alienated
• 26:35
  some. Maybe the intolerant skillet fans because of some of the stands you've taken and some of
• 26:41
  the things you've talked about. So I know there's a risk but you are to glorify Christ and that's
• 26:46
  what you're doing. And so kudos brother. Keep fighting the good fight. We just want to pray that
• 26:52
  God will enlarge your territory even more. And I just thank you for your time today. We really
• 26:57
  appreciate it. John L Cooper dot com. Thank you brother. All right. And the book Wimpy Week and
• 27:03
  woke guys. Check that out. Best seller already. John L Cooper. Guys, we appreciate it. Keep sharing
• 27:08
  the podcast. That's how we're getting out there because we're somewhat censored shadow band.
• 27:12
  You know how that works on social media. So it's because of you that we're growing. God bless you
• 27:16
  and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.