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Broken Trust: A Survivor’s Story | Fleur · Real Crime with Adam Shand

0:05
Speaker 1: Appote production.
0:10
Speaker 2: This podcast contains discussion of child sexual assault and psychological trauma.
0:15
Speaker 2: It's not recommended for younger listeners, and discretion is advised.
0:23
Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host,
0:26
Speaker 2: Adam Shand. There's an old saying that justice delayed is
0:29
Speaker 2: justice denied. My guest today knows exactly how that feels,
0:33
Speaker 2: and I'm hoping we can fix that. For three years,
0:37
Speaker 2: from the age of eight to eleven, Fleur which is
0:39
Speaker 2: not her real name, was sexually assaulted by her stepfather.
0:44
Speaker 2: In those years, she suffered in silence as her mother's
0:47
Speaker 2: husband exploited and defiled her. When she did speak up
0:51
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five, police did next to nothing. The
0:55
Speaker 2: perpetrator was interviewed but never charged. Fleur bravely told police
1:00
Speaker 2: what her stepfather did to her in highly credible detail,
1:05
Speaker 2: but in those days children are often not believed. Luckily,
1:09
Speaker 2: times have changed remarkably. Fleur was placed in foster care
1:14
Speaker 2: while her mother tried to save her marriage. Presumably as
1:18
Speaker 2: I said, the perpetrator was never charged and for him
1:21
Speaker 2: it all went away, but not for Flur. Forty years later,
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Speaker 2: Fleur is trying to have her assailant, now in his
1:28
Speaker 2: mid eighties, brought to justice before he dies. I've located
1:33
Speaker 2: this man living quietly in the suburbs of Melbourne, the Polisa,
1:36
Speaker 2: where he is too but he still enjoys his freedom,
1:40
Speaker 2: while Fleur continues to live the trauma of those days
1:43
Speaker 2: that he caused. I'm proud to assist Fleur in her
1:47
Speaker 2: quest for justice, and she's in the Real Crime Studio today.
1:50
Speaker 2: Welcome Flur.
1:51
Speaker 1: Thank you. It's quite an introduction. I've not heard it
1:56
Speaker 1: put quite like that, so it's almost quite confronting.
2:01
Speaker 2: Your whole story is confronting. And when you contacted me,
2:04
Speaker 2: I knew this was story I had to pursue and
2:07
Speaker 2: I should ask you why did you choose me?
2:11
Speaker 1: Because, like I said, what I think i'd mentioned when
2:14
Speaker 1: I first made contact that I'd seen some of your
2:17
Speaker 1: work with TV shows and other podcasts, and so I thought, well,
2:22
Speaker 1: you seem like someone who this has been your experience
2:25
Speaker 1: and you would have knowledge specific to that very first
2:28
Speaker 1: question that I asked you, which was in relation to,
2:32
Speaker 1: you know, does publicity hinder or assist a criminal investigation?
2:37
Speaker 1: As to whether that was going to be the right
2:39
Speaker 1: path for me to take.
2:41
Speaker 2: Well, I thank you for your trust and confidence in
2:43
Speaker 2: me to do this, and I'm going to do my
2:44
Speaker 2: very best. And we should say there has been a
2:47
Speaker 2: report to police, Queensland Police about this where the offenses
2:51
Speaker 2: took place, and you've not felt that there's been the
2:54
Speaker 2: right urgency in this case because the perpetrator is now,
2:58
Speaker 2: as I said in the intro, in his mid eighties,
3:00
Speaker 2: and you fear he may die without facing up to
3:04
Speaker 2: what he's done.
3:06
Speaker 1: Correct, because this reissuing of a complaint to the police
3:11
Speaker 1: was I think even pre COVID, And so that's how
3:14
Speaker 1: long I've been sitting waiting for something to happen. And
3:18
Speaker 1: as much as there has been bits and pieces and
3:21
Speaker 1: the police have you know, have done some background work,
3:25
Speaker 1: you know, trying to track down people from that time
3:28
Speaker 1: to see what they could offer as a witness, but
3:31
Speaker 1: it's been at a snail's pace, and you know, I've
3:35
Speaker 1: been simply told that you know, other cases that are
3:38
Speaker 1: happening now have been taking priority and so I kind
3:43
Speaker 1: of always then shoved back to the bottom of the queue.
3:47
Speaker 2: So how do you feel about that this case when
3:49
Speaker 2: you know the perpetrator is elderly, he could die any time,
3:53
Speaker 2: and any chance of your resolving this, there's been the
3:56
Speaker 2: big issue in your life. Any chance of resolving it
3:58
Speaker 2: will be gone.
4:01
Speaker 1: It's frightening, you know, as much as I understand that
4:04
Speaker 1: if there are cases happening now, of course you know
4:06
Speaker 1: they need attention. However, and I've said this to the
4:10
Speaker 1: police officer recently, is you can't keep pushing my case
4:14
Speaker 1: to the bottom because there is the very real threat
4:17
Speaker 1: of simply dying from old age, regardless of you know,
4:20
Speaker 1: any other causes of death, and then you know, everything
4:24
Speaker 1: completely falls apart, you know, the second that occurs. But
4:29
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I don't know how much I
4:31
Speaker 1: can push the issue, you know, without getting pushed back,
4:35
Speaker 1: you know, or being told that there's staffing limitations, funding limitations,
4:41
Speaker 1: all of this that. You know. I'm sure they do battle,
4:44
Speaker 1: but there's got to be a point where mine does
4:48
Speaker 1: take some priority.
4:51
Speaker 2: Well, it's about you having your voice and telling your story,
4:56
Speaker 2: and I guess impressing on the police that time is
4:58
Speaker 2: of the essence. And I think I get contacted quite
5:01
Speaker 2: a lot by people with these historical sexual assault cases,
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Speaker 2: and they're very difficult because usually there's no evidence. There's
5:09
Speaker 2: one story from a long time ago. There's no contemporary notes,
5:13
Speaker 2: there's no file, and it's extremely difficult for police picking
5:18
Speaker 2: up the trail to do anything at the distance of time.
5:20
Speaker 2: The difference with your case is you have quite a
5:24
Speaker 2: bit of material. You've got a record of interview that
5:27
Speaker 2: was done with the perpetrator back in nineteen eighty five.
5:31
Speaker 2: You've got some handwritten notes I presume by a detective
5:34
Speaker 2: back in the day transcribing your experience. You've also got
5:39
Speaker 2: a magazine that was I guess part of the evidence
5:43
Speaker 2: back in the day, a pornographic magazine. You've got what
5:46
Speaker 2: happened to you as well. You were put in foster care.
5:49
Speaker 2: So tell us how did that material come to light?
5:53
Speaker 2: Because from what I understand your mother and I don't
5:57
Speaker 2: want to criticize her, because this is a problem that
6:00
Speaker 2: so many people are faced over the years in marriages
6:04
Speaker 2: where this has taken place, and really this sort of abuse.
6:07
Speaker 2: One of my friends down here next sexual assault squad
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Speaker 2: detective said, this is the last taboo where it's ancestor
6:14
Speaker 2: or its stepfathers and so forth. Very difficult cases. But
6:18
Speaker 2: your mother had a certain way of dealing with it
6:20
Speaker 2: back in the day.
6:21
Speaker 1: What did she do seemingly lifted the carpet and swept
6:24
Speaker 1: it under. It was not to be discussed. Essentially, that's
6:29
Speaker 1: when the lies started, so, you know, lying about why
6:34
Speaker 1: he wasn't you know, why they weren't together anymore. And
6:38
Speaker 1: that was a lie that I also had to go
6:41
Speaker 1: along with. I wasn't to talk to her about what happened,
6:46
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to talk to anyone else what happened. And
6:50
Speaker 1: that's just sort of the way it became. And of course,
6:53
Speaker 1: unfortunately of the age that I was and not really
6:57
Speaker 1: able to I guess, articulate the situation well enough to
7:03
Speaker 1: speak out or to you know, jump up and down
7:07
Speaker 1: and complain. I guess it was just still reeling from
7:13
Speaker 1: everything that happened, and you just sort of, I suppose,
7:16
Speaker 1: accept that this is what you have to do, not
7:18
Speaker 1: realizing that it's not actually you know, and of course
7:22
Speaker 1: a lie ends up evolving into other areas of life.
7:28
Speaker 1: I ended up having a lot of struggles with weight
7:32
Speaker 1: because I ended up being a comfort eater. I struggled
7:35
Speaker 1: through school, and of course, you know, if anyone ever
7:39
Speaker 1: probably questioned my mother about these things, it was never
7:43
Speaker 1: actually related to you know, the fact that I've gone
7:45
Speaker 1: through a significant trauma, you know, that would have been
7:49
Speaker 1: kept quiet, and who knows what she told people about
7:54
Speaker 1: those scenarios, but it certainly wouldn't have been the truth.
7:58
Speaker 2: And it certainly would have affected your relationship with your mother,
8:01
Speaker 2: because when I read the material and I speak to
8:03
Speaker 2: you over the last few weeks, as we've discussing this,
8:06
Speaker 2: this term victim blaming comes to mind. That you were
8:11
Speaker 2: made to feel that you were the one to blame,
8:14
Speaker 2: that somehow the troubles going on were at your door,
8:19
Speaker 2: rather than the perpetrator who had just abused your trust
8:23
Speaker 2: in a horrific way.
8:25
Speaker 1: Well, I certainly can look back and feel a sense
8:30
Speaker 1: that she thought I'd made it up, which was part
8:33
Speaker 1: of then her wanting to pretend it never happened, because
8:38
Speaker 1: no doubt if she did say anything to him, or
8:41
Speaker 1: even if she did read that police interview and saw
8:46
Speaker 1: him denying everything, that she would have taken that as, oh,
8:49
Speaker 1: he didn't do anything, and therefore I have made this up.
8:53
Speaker 1: And you know, those thought presses don't happen in isolation.
8:57
Speaker 1: They then permeate into all your other thought process and
9:01
Speaker 1: so of course, if you think I've lied and made
9:02
Speaker 1: the whole thing up. Well, then you're not dive in
9:06
Speaker 1: wanting to make sure I'm okay, get help and support
9:10
Speaker 1: for me, guidance, nothing because you think I've lied.
9:17
Speaker 2: And so nothing was said for years about this and
9:21
Speaker 2: you were made to feel like you'd made it up.
9:24
Speaker 2: Were there times when you even doubted yourself that maybe
9:28
Speaker 2: this didn't happen, Maybe maybe I'm wrong.
9:33
Speaker 1: I don't think I ever felt that I got it
9:36
Speaker 1: wrong and it never happened. I think it was more
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Speaker 1: that weird and this is a weird perspective to have,
9:42
Speaker 1: but almost it was wrong for me to have said something,
9:47
Speaker 1: and that it almost wasn't wrong for him to have
9:50
Speaker 1: been doing that. Like in as bizarre as that sounds,
9:54
Speaker 1: it was sort of rather than me going, oh, maybe
9:58
Speaker 1: it didn't actually happen, like no, I certainly do not
10:01
Speaker 1: hype doubt that it happened, But it was that aspect
10:06
Speaker 1: of maybe I was wrong to say something, or like
10:09
Speaker 1: I said, maybe maybe what he was doing wasn't considered wrong.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was quite an isolated child, you know,
10:17
Speaker 1: maybe thinking well, maybe this happens in other households. Because
10:21
Speaker 1: I also, as much as I don't recall exactly what
10:24
Speaker 1: it was that I said to the teacher at school.
10:29
Speaker 1: Something about it tells me it wasn't a disclosure in
10:33
Speaker 1: the way of, you know, being upset and all this
10:36
Speaker 1: is happening. My gut tells me I must have just
10:40
Speaker 1: said some offhand comment, but it was enough to prick
10:44
Speaker 1: their ears up and go, oh, hang on a minute,
10:47
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound right. And I think that played into
10:51
Speaker 1: my having no concept that what was happening was wrong
10:56
Speaker 1: and was not supposed to happen. So I think that's
11:00
Speaker 1: sort of where it left me that I was I
11:02
Speaker 1: was wrong to say something.
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Speaker 2: Let's take a step back, because you said something to
11:08
Speaker 2: your mother first.
11:11
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Unfortunately, this is part of where my
11:16
Speaker 1: memory fails me. I have faint memory of saying something
11:21
Speaker 1: to her, and I know that is backed up in
11:24
Speaker 1: that sort of handwritten statement because it has then stated
11:28
Speaker 1: there that my mother's response was that sort of she
11:31
Speaker 1: will talk to him about it. But whether that came
11:35
Speaker 1: before or after I mentioned at the school. Therefore, as
11:38
Speaker 1: in was I prompted to say something to my mum?
11:42
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you because I was shocked by that
11:45
Speaker 2: when I read that statement and it said you spoke
11:47
Speaker 2: to your mother, and she said she'd go and talk
11:50
Speaker 2: to the perpetrator. And I can't help but feel that
11:54
Speaker 2: the proper response would have been, I'll go and talk
11:57
Speaker 2: to the police. I'll get something done about this. I've
11:59
Speaker 2: got to protect you. And I wonder whether and this
12:03
Speaker 2: may be unraveled, because I think if police get active
12:06
Speaker 2: in this case, they can find teachers and other classmates
12:09
Speaker 2: of that era. It's not impossible, and they maybe able
12:12
Speaker 2: to unravel it. But certainly it seems like you weren't
12:14
Speaker 2: believed and you were now the problem. And then it's
12:19
Speaker 2: something that you've also I think blocked out in your memory,
12:23
Speaker 2: was you were put in foster care. I can only
12:25
Speaker 2: imagine you're an eleven year old girl who's been abused
12:29
Speaker 2: and suddenly you're no longer in your family home, the
12:32
Speaker 2: perpetrator is in the family home, and you were in
12:35
Speaker 2: foster care for some period of time.
12:38
Speaker 1: Yes, again, very very much snapshot memories, and really all
12:45
Speaker 1: I remember is I'd gone through two different homes. I
12:49
Speaker 1: have no idea why the change occurred. Could be nothing
12:53
Speaker 1: to do with me, could be other reasons to do
12:56
Speaker 1: with the that sual home setups that I always needed
13:01
Speaker 1: to be moved. But I just have very snapshot memory
13:05
Speaker 1: of the first and very snapshot is in a vague
13:09
Speaker 1: memory of what the first family looked like and what
13:12
Speaker 1: the second family looked like, but probably not enough that
13:15
Speaker 1: I could, you know, ever point them out in you know,
13:17
Speaker 1: if you gave me a line up of photos, I
13:19
Speaker 1: probably couldn't point them out. And I certainly couldn't tell
13:22
Speaker 1: anywhere like location. I couldn't tell you if they drove
13:26
Speaker 1: me for ten minutes to get to the house or
13:28
Speaker 1: for an hour to get to I absolutely have no
13:31
Speaker 1: memory at all. I just remember being told to pack
13:34
Speaker 1: some clothes and then I was out, and then yeah,
13:39
Speaker 1: and even the length of time I was gone, like,
13:41
Speaker 1: you know, i'd only know that by looking at the
13:44
Speaker 1: Social services file that I eventually was sent to even
13:49
Speaker 1: have a gauge of how long I'd been gone for.
13:53
Speaker 2: And there's one moment in the record which says you
13:57
Speaker 2: absconded for a period of days, location unknown. Did you
14:03
Speaker 2: run away or something?
14:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that was a bit of a turning point,
14:10
Speaker 1: which didn't I didn't set out to achieve this outcome,
14:14
Speaker 1: but I unfortunately it could have made a difference. And
14:19
Speaker 1: I don't think really actually did so when I was
14:22
Speaker 1: about I think I was about fifteen. I'd been out
14:25
Speaker 1: with a boyfriend at the time, and again still in
14:30
Speaker 1: all the midst of you know, struggles of school and
14:35
Speaker 1: home and life, and you know, you're putting a lot
14:38
Speaker 1: of teenaged anks into all this as well, and it
14:41
Speaker 1: was I just remember the time, it wasn't so much
14:45
Speaker 1: sort of conscious you know, I'm going to run away
14:48
Speaker 1: or I'm going to disappear. It was just more I
14:51
Speaker 1: just don't feel like going home tonight, And that was
14:53
Speaker 1: really no more thought than that. And next thing, I
14:59
Speaker 1: don't know if it was the next day that the
15:03
Speaker 1: boyfriend's parent and I couldn't actually tell now where I
15:06
Speaker 1: was for that period of time, wouldn't have a cloe,
15:09
Speaker 1: But I don't know if my mother had managed to
15:13
Speaker 1: get hold of the boyfriend's parents, who got hold of
15:16
Speaker 1: him to say the police are involved, you know, like
15:19
Speaker 1: where am I kind of thing, and then sort of
15:22
Speaker 1: you know, that wasn't my attention, So of course I've
15:25
Speaker 1: made contact to say like, you know, well, you know,
15:27
Speaker 1: what are you doing? But they were actually getting ready.
15:30
Speaker 1: They'd gone around to my mother's house. They'd taken a
15:33
Speaker 1: photo of me because they were getting ready to essentially
15:37
Speaker 1: put me on the like six o'clock news that evening
15:40
Speaker 1: in regards to being, you know, a missing teenager and anyway,
15:46
Speaker 1: because at the time of that going to occur, and
15:50
Speaker 1: you know, my mother then realizing that she's probably going
15:54
Speaker 1: to have to do some fast explaining why my face
15:57
Speaker 1: is on the news, she rang family, rang my father
16:03
Speaker 1: because my father was not aware of any of this
16:05
Speaker 1: that had happened to me. I don't know what she
16:08
Speaker 1: told her side of the family, because none of them
16:12
Speaker 1: have ever spoken to me. It's just been, I suppose,
16:16
Speaker 1: this continuation of this wall of silence. So I don't
16:18
Speaker 1: even know if she was honest with them about why
16:22
Speaker 1: I may have just not come home. But she apparently
16:26
Speaker 1: did tell my father, and it was a bit of
16:31
Speaker 1: a heated conversation that went on. I couldn't tell you
16:35
Speaker 1: abatim as to what was said. There was a lot
16:38
Speaker 1: of it I wouldn't have heard because I wasn't right
16:41
Speaker 1: there present. But one very distinctive thing that my father
16:45
Speaker 1: said to me after that meeting was, of course, you know,
16:49
Speaker 1: one of his first questions was why wasn't he told
16:52
Speaker 1: at the time, and that the staggering response that my
16:56
Speaker 1: mother gave to that question was she didn't think it
16:59
Speaker 1: was important, and I don't. I still don't even know
17:07
Speaker 1: how you how to process that answer. I didn't think
17:12
Speaker 1: it was important.
17:15
Speaker 2: I can't either. I can't process that either. And the
17:17
Speaker 2: remarkable thing about all this is that despite the fact
17:20
Speaker 2: your mother swept us under the carpet, didn't tell people,
17:22
Speaker 2: left you in a place of isolation and silence. She
17:26
Speaker 2: kept the documents, kept the record of interview of the perpetrator,
17:31
Speaker 2: kept your foster record, kept the statement, even kept a
17:35
Speaker 2: magazine that was one of the exhibits in the house.
17:38
Speaker 2: How did you find that material?
17:41
Speaker 1: So se fast forward to late twenty sixteen, and unfortunate
17:48
Speaker 1: circumstances required that my two children and myself needed to
17:54
Speaker 1: move into her place, and in amongst discovering that you know,
17:59
Speaker 1: clearly her health has declined, and part of declining that
18:07
Speaker 1: you know, I've noticed for a while. But you know,
18:09
Speaker 1: there are some things that you don't really hit you
18:11
Speaker 1: in the face until you're sort of living, you know,
18:14
Speaker 1: with someone. But obviously I could already see when we
18:17
Speaker 1: would just visit that, you know, the hoarding that was
18:20
Speaker 1: taking place, and you know the amount of times I'd
18:22
Speaker 1: go there and spend my visits, you know, trying to
18:25
Speaker 1: throw things out just what they've been going on, and
18:29
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, continue to clean out. And so
18:33
Speaker 1: this was in the built in wardrobe in her bedroom,
18:37
Speaker 1: and it was just chocol block with stuff that I'm
18:40
Speaker 1: sure she didn't even know what was in there herself,
18:43
Speaker 1: and just pulling things out. And yet it's really quite
18:47
Speaker 1: shocked as to this paperwork that had come about, and
18:51
Speaker 1: paperwork that I didn't actually know existed, let alone that
18:54
Speaker 1: she had it. And it was this. The best way
18:58
Speaker 1: I can describe it is a penny drop moment where
19:03
Speaker 1: things just all into place, I suppose it's the best
19:07
Speaker 1: way to describe it. But also a feeling of my god,
19:11
Speaker 1: what an idiot I have been all this time because
19:16
Speaker 1: I just didn't realize And you feel stupid saying this,
19:22
Speaker 1: but I didn't realize she didn't believe me that that
19:26
Speaker 1: was what the penny drop was. It was like, oh,
19:29
Speaker 1: my God, realize it, because you know, even though I
19:33
Speaker 1: couldn't articulate it at the time as a child, and
19:36
Speaker 1: then sort of growing up, I knew something was something
19:39
Speaker 1: didn't sit right, and something had changed in whatever our
19:42
Speaker 1: relationship was before this occurred, it wasn't the same after.
19:46
Speaker 1: But I couldn't, you know, articulate that at the time.
19:50
Speaker 1: But I knew I would see other families and I,
19:53
Speaker 1: you know, and people are different, so you know, you've
19:55
Speaker 1: got to be careful making comparisons. But I would just
19:57
Speaker 1: see other families and how they would interact with each other,
20:02
Speaker 1: and I could just see something was different the relationship,
20:08
Speaker 1: the interaction, whatever you want to call it between my
20:11
Speaker 1: mother and I. There was something different about it. That
20:15
Speaker 1: was a penny drop moment. And that's when it fell
20:17
Speaker 1: into place that I realized, my god, that's what it was.
20:20
Speaker 1: This I suppose almost arm's length distance between us that
20:26
Speaker 1: I carried thinking I was the cause of the issue
20:30
Speaker 1: between her and I that I couldn't articulate, like, but
20:34
Speaker 1: but it was my fault. So then suddenly realizing no,
20:38
Speaker 1: it wasn't my fault. And so with that then as
20:43
Speaker 1: well realizing that, you know what, I never actually was
20:46
Speaker 1: told what happened with the outcome. I think I assumed
20:50
Speaker 1: that because I knew the police were involved, that they
20:53
Speaker 1: would have done their investigation and there would have been
20:55
Speaker 1: a court case. But I was never told, but of course,
21:00
Speaker 1: you know, nothing was spoken about. So I thought, well,
21:03
Speaker 1: you know, I want to find out myself what happened
21:07
Speaker 1: with this case. And so I started off with them
21:10
Speaker 1: an FOI to QPS, and they came back with sort
21:17
Speaker 1: of essentially like a hands up as, so, oh, we
21:20
Speaker 1: don't know, we don't have anything. And so I was like,
21:24
Speaker 1: what do you mean you don't have anything? I have stuff?
21:27
Speaker 1: How do you not have stuff? How do I have
21:30
Speaker 1: a police record of interview and you don't. That makes
21:35
Speaker 1: no sense. And to go back on to the earlier
21:37
Speaker 1: point about my fears about you know, this case being delayed,
21:42
Speaker 1: like I don't know, to bring out a conspiracy theory,
21:46
Speaker 1: you know, I sometimes wonder whether they're avoiding the topic
21:49
Speaker 1: because maybe they recognize the stuff up that happened back then,
21:53
Speaker 1: and so they're trying to avoid recognizing that because obviously
21:59
Speaker 1: the best chance of conviction was at the time it
22:03
Speaker 1: will be much more difficult now. But anyway, so from that,
22:06
Speaker 1: you know, I was advised, well, if the police didn't investigate,
22:10
Speaker 1: then then I can lodge a complaint now and initiate
22:16
Speaker 1: an investigation. So that's what I did. Then after I
22:21
Speaker 1: think sort of a year or two. So this was
22:24
Speaker 1: about twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen when all of this then started,
22:29
Speaker 1: and the first officer we started with the case. About
22:33
Speaker 1: a year or so later, I found out that they'd
22:37
Speaker 1: closed it and I'm like, what, no one notified me.
22:41
Speaker 1: It was only because I was trying to chase it
22:43
Speaker 1: up as to what was happening, because I hadn't heard anything,
22:45
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, yeah, the case was closed, And
22:47
Speaker 1: they came back with this samement saying, oh, clearly it
22:50
Speaker 1: was investigated thoroughly the first time round. And I'm like, oh, really,
22:54
Speaker 1: really can you can you show me the evidence that
22:56
Speaker 1: it was clearly investigated the first time round, And so
22:59
Speaker 1: I lodged a complaint and so it was reopened now
23:03
Speaker 1: with the current office. So but we're still talking. We'll
23:08
Speaker 1: probably you know, four or five years now that you
23:11
Speaker 1: know this, since it's been reopened then the second time,
23:16
Speaker 1: which I don't know how long these things normally take,
23:18
Speaker 1: but that just seems a rather long period of time.
23:22
Speaker 2: It is, and I think it's your frustration is absolutely justified.
23:26
Speaker 2: And look at the material. It is comprehensive. You know
23:29
Speaker 2: exactly what the allegations are when they took place, for
23:31
Speaker 2: how long your response what happened? Of course, eventually the
23:35
Speaker 2: perpetrator and your mother did break up, but she kept
23:39
Speaker 2: his name until the early two thousands, I believe, so
23:41
Speaker 2: she still continued to cling to the remnants of that relationship.
23:45
Speaker 2: But what's lacking in the evidence that I've seen is
23:48
Speaker 2: your mother's statement. I wonder did she make a statement,
23:51
Speaker 2: because that would have been key. Whatever conversations that she'd
23:55
Speaker 2: had with the perpetrator would have been used in evidence
23:58
Speaker 2: to corroborate what you were saying. And I wonder whether
24:02
Speaker 2: you were just left high and dry in a situation
24:05
Speaker 2: where it was just he said she said, he was
24:08
Speaker 2: able to sit there and deny it all and there
24:10
Speaker 2: was nothing coming up behind to corroborate that.
24:15
Speaker 1: Exactly. And that's the issue with the fact that whatever
24:18
Speaker 1: file they had is gone. So I couldn't tell you
24:22
Speaker 1: whether the record of interview that they did with the
24:24
Speaker 1: perpetrator is that the only interview they did, or did
24:27
Speaker 1: they speak to other people? If they did, where are
24:29
Speaker 1: those records of interview. There's not even a log of
24:34
Speaker 1: you know expect that they normally have of you know,
24:37
Speaker 1: dates and times that you know they and who they've
24:39
Speaker 1: spoken to and when they spoke to them, or who
24:42
Speaker 1: they're you know, wanting to speak to, like who were
24:45
Speaker 1: persons of interest if that was necessary for the case,
24:49
Speaker 1: or But there's just like I said, they had, the
24:52
Speaker 1: only document they had was this handwritten statement, and they
24:58
Speaker 1: turned around to me and said, we don't know what
25:00
Speaker 1: this is. We don't like you know, we don't know
25:02
Speaker 1: where this has come from. But that's all they had.
25:06
Speaker 2: It's unsigned, it doesn't give away much of its providence,
25:09
Speaker 2: but the allegations are very clear, and it seems to
25:12
Speaker 2: be what is put to the perpetrator in his interview.
25:15
Speaker 2: It's drawn from this document. Seems very clear, and I
25:19
Speaker 2: don't want to go into the detail because it is harrowing,
25:21
Speaker 2: and I really appreciate you talking about this at all.
25:24
Speaker 2: But what we see is over a period of three years,
25:28
Speaker 2: a grooming sexual assault that stopped short of actual penetration
25:34
Speaker 2: fucking use that word, but something that was clearly very
25:38
Speaker 2: damaging to you and to not be believed. But I
25:42
Speaker 2: think also to find the evidence in the cupboard, i'd
25:45
Speaker 2: suggest going back to the cupboard again and see if
25:47
Speaker 2: there's any more in there. You know that may be
25:49
Speaker 2: useful to the police. Have you done that.
25:53
Speaker 1: Or actually no longer in that house, But there's potential
25:57
Speaker 1: that other documents exist because of the sheer hoarding that
26:01
Speaker 1: my mother did. That I'm still drowning in, you know
26:05
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. You know, I just ran out
26:07
Speaker 1: of time to sort through things. Things just had to
26:10
Speaker 1: be boxed up and whatnot and just moved. And so
26:13
Speaker 1: there's still boxes and crates and filing cabinets full of paperwork.
26:17
Speaker 1: And one day I might be able to sit down
26:19
Speaker 1: and go through it and you know, magically come across
26:22
Speaker 1: something else. But just to point out there it there
26:29
Speaker 1: was penetration. He did use his fingers, and he had
26:38
Speaker 1: made a start with his penis. He just hadn't fully
26:42
Speaker 1: inserted it, but he had inserted essentially, like I suppose
26:46
Speaker 1: you could say, the head of the penis, and that's
26:52
Speaker 1: the thing that's part of the groomy. I think he
26:54
Speaker 1: was slowly working up to where he would have the
26:57
Speaker 1: day would have come where he would be fully inserting it.
27:01
Speaker 1: But obviously, you know, having said something, you know, interjected
27:06
Speaker 1: any further acts from occurring. But absolutely I have no
27:11
Speaker 1: doubt that if if I hadn't happened to have said
27:14
Speaker 1: something that these acts would have just continued and potentially
27:18
Speaker 1: continued for.
27:18
Speaker 2: Years, which they did for three long years.
27:22
Speaker 1: Well they already had which yeah, which is why this
27:26
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, some random you know, active you know,
27:32
Speaker 1: chrome of opportunity as they say that, you know, it
27:34
Speaker 1: was the stranger who had to catch me walking down
27:37
Speaker 1: the street, grab pulled me into the bushes, did what
27:40
Speaker 1: they did, and then took off and never seen again.
27:42
Speaker 1: And I'm not making light of those I'm just saying
27:45
Speaker 1: just bringing up the difference between someone who's got unfettered
27:50
Speaker 1: access to in the four walls of the home with
27:54
Speaker 1: potentially a fairly ignorant parent because as mentioned, you know,
28:01
Speaker 1: was she completely in the dark about these acts occurring?
28:05
Speaker 1: Did she know and did she turn a blind eye?
28:08
Speaker 1: Or at the very least should she have known, should
28:11
Speaker 1: she have been suspicious and still decided to Oh, we
28:16
Speaker 1: don't talk about those sort of things, you know, that
28:19
Speaker 1: sort of era and mindset that that carried through as
28:24
Speaker 1: to you know, why she made up other reasons as
28:28
Speaker 1: to why the marriage broke down because you know, she
28:33
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly face telling people the.
28:36
Speaker 2: Truth for fear of being judged, I guess.
28:41
Speaker 1: I I don't know, and on course, you know, I'm
28:45
Speaker 1: never going to get an answer from her anymore. But
28:49
Speaker 1: that lie is so ingrained in her that even a
28:53
Speaker 1: few years ago, during an assessment with a medical specialist
28:58
Speaker 1: you know who just you know, was asking about background,
29:00
Speaker 1: social history, you know, family background, and asked about you know,
29:05
Speaker 1: general questions. You know, how many times you've been married,
29:07
Speaker 1: you know, invariably you know, why did the marriages ended?
29:10
Speaker 1: And listening to her give reason as to why the
29:15
Speaker 1: second marriage ended, and I just was just flabbercusted that this.
29:22
Speaker 1: I think the lie is so ingrained that she completely
29:25
Speaker 1: believes it.
29:26
Speaker 2: I should say that your mother is still alive, but
29:28
Speaker 2: she's suffering dementia, so she's beyond any chance to get
29:33
Speaker 2: definitive assistance again. But as I read the record of interview,
29:38
Speaker 2: the perpetrator is able, over an hour or so interview
29:41
Speaker 2: to deny everything except for one thing. He does admit
29:46
Speaker 2: that he showed you a pornographic magazine and as if
29:50
Speaker 2: that you were interested in it.
29:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the excuse he gives when they ask him
29:54
Speaker 1: why he showed it to me, and his answer was
29:57
Speaker 1: because she wanted to see it, which just astounds me
30:01
Speaker 1: that it just seemed to be accepted as an answer
30:05
Speaker 1: by the police as well, and not only that, And
30:07
Speaker 1: this is what leads me to you know, I have
30:10
Speaker 1: a few reasons as to why I believe I could
30:13
Speaker 1: not be his first and only victim, but one of
30:17
Speaker 1: them is because I, you know, also since tried to
30:20
Speaker 1: lodge a complaint in regards to their inaction on that admission.
30:26
Speaker 1: And of course it's come back to me telling me
30:29
Speaker 1: that that wasn't an offense at that time, which you know,
30:34
Speaker 1: is frustrating, but of course you know, of course, what
30:36
Speaker 1: can you do about it? But it still says to
30:40
Speaker 1: me that he seemed to know that. Otherwise, why would
30:45
Speaker 1: he admit to that unless he knew that they couldn't
30:49
Speaker 1: do anything about that, And that in itself should be
30:54
Speaker 1: highly suspicious that this is someone who knows the system.
30:58
Speaker 1: And even if he hasn't had that accusation landed to
31:01
Speaker 1: him before. I mean, I've listened and you know, to
31:06
Speaker 1: enough documentaries on this topic to know that there's a
31:10
Speaker 1: society of them. They know who each other is, they
31:14
Speaker 1: interact with each other and pass tips on. And I
31:19
Speaker 1: think that you know, he's found out from others that
31:23
Speaker 1: they can't do you for that, because how else would
31:26
Speaker 1: you know, Why would you admit to that, why would
31:28
Speaker 1: you say no to everything except that unless you knew
31:33
Speaker 1: they couldn't do anything about that?
31:35
Speaker 2: Because you covered this in that handwritten statement. What did
31:39
Speaker 2: you say was the purpose of showing you that magazine?
31:43
Speaker 1: So my memory, apart from whatever I've said in there,
31:47
Speaker 1: just separate to that, my own memories of those magazines,
31:50
Speaker 1: was his showing me. And I think, you know, obviously
31:52
Speaker 1: I didn't know these magazines existed, and so it would
31:56
Speaker 1: have started by him showing me and wanting me to
32:00
Speaker 1: look through it and start to pick out what I'd
32:04
Speaker 1: like to try. Essentially as disgusting.
32:07
Speaker 2: As that is as an eleven year old, this is
32:10
Speaker 2: a forty three year old man.
32:12
Speaker 1: This was I was younger, because this is happening over
32:15
Speaker 1: that three year period. So this wasn't just right at
32:17
Speaker 1: the end, So I could have been It could have
32:20
Speaker 1: started when I was eight and praying on the fact
32:24
Speaker 1: that I have no idea that any of this is
32:27
Speaker 1: inappropriate or wrong, and just going on thinking, obviously thinking
32:31
Speaker 1: it's some sort of game or like whatever. He had
32:35
Speaker 1: managed to convince me of had worked, and yes, so
32:39
Speaker 1: wanting me to pick out things to try. And there
32:44
Speaker 1: probably was a time where I had said to you know,
32:49
Speaker 1: I'd asked him, you know, to get the book to
32:51
Speaker 1: look through it, because is what this is what the
32:53
Speaker 1: grooming was, this is what he had been, you know,
32:56
Speaker 1: getting me to do. And so I was just you know,
32:59
Speaker 1: being you know, the good child and you know, thinking
33:02
Speaker 1: I'm doing what what to expect it of me? Which,
33:07
Speaker 1: you know, it's just horrifying to think that that's that's
33:10
Speaker 1: where you were.
33:12
Speaker 2: You've been brainwashed by this individual. And when in the
33:16
Speaker 2: interview he was asked, okay, you say this didn't happen.
33:21
Speaker 2: Why do you think Fleur is saying this, he said, well,
33:24
Speaker 2: I think it's because I make her do the right thing,
33:28
Speaker 2: falling back on his authority as a father figure. It's monstrous.
33:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to comment on actually, because we talked
33:40
Speaker 1: about this off air.
33:41
Speaker 2: The effect that it's had on you and your your childhood,
33:45
Speaker 2: these important formative years where you are you're into puberty
33:50
Speaker 2: or forming your views about sexuality, and you have this
33:54
Speaker 2: monster who's exploiting you at these critical moments. What effect,
34:02
Speaker 2: how do you think it has had on you and
34:03
Speaker 2: the way you've formed if you're the world and your sexuality.
34:08
Speaker 1: Oh look, it's probably even affected me more than what
34:12
Speaker 1: I realized. It's affected me, but it sets you on
34:15
Speaker 1: this trajectory, and the one for me just seemed to
34:20
Speaker 1: be trauma after trauma. There were in comparison, albeit more minor,
34:28
Speaker 1: but there were other occasions of an assault. You know,
34:33
Speaker 1: I was assaulted in a cinema and I froze at
34:39
Speaker 1: the time when it happened, and I mentioned it. I
34:44
Speaker 1: remember mentioning it to my friend who had gone to
34:47
Speaker 1: the cinema with After the cinema, and I also remember,
34:50
Speaker 1: and I don't mean this to be derogatory to my friend,
34:53
Speaker 1: but I remember it was sort of turned into a
34:54
Speaker 1: bit of a joke and it was being laughed about,
34:59
Speaker 1: and I probably participated in the joke, but inside, you know,
35:03
Speaker 1: you feel this sort of discomforts like and of course
35:05
Speaker 1: looking back and go why was this being joked about.
35:09
Speaker 1: There was a family friend of my father's who you know,
35:16
Speaker 1: he was grooming me towards something and again he so
35:23
Speaker 1: that started off. He was someone of European descent, and
35:28
Speaker 1: you know how sometimes they're very I don't know how
35:32
Speaker 1: to describe it. They're very family orientated, that big families,
35:36
Speaker 1: you know, they're all kind of you know, giving each other.
35:38
Speaker 1: You know, you get the double kiss, you know, on
35:40
Speaker 1: your cheeks, you get the big hugs. And so when
35:43
Speaker 1: it starts off like that, you put it down to
35:47
Speaker 1: that's just their culture, that's just the way they are.
35:49
Speaker 1: But of course it started to slowly mold a bit
35:52
Speaker 1: more than that, and initially I would just right off, guy, No,
35:56
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, being silly. It's not that at all,
35:59
Speaker 1: until there was one incident where it was much more
36:03
Speaker 1: obvious that, no, this is not just their cultureal you know,
36:08
Speaker 1: giving everyone hugs. This was this is actually, you know,
36:12
Speaker 1: more more.
36:13
Speaker 2: Of an assault, raping you and so forth.
36:16
Speaker 1: Essentially, yes, and again I kind of froze, and I
36:21
Speaker 1: reported it to my father, and my father, I guess,
36:25
Speaker 1: to his credit to a degree, he believed me that
36:30
Speaker 1: I was probably i know, seventeen eighteen maybe at the
36:36
Speaker 1: time that this was occurring, and he confronted this friend,
36:40
Speaker 1: and I think that ended the friendship. Like my father was,
36:43
Speaker 1: you know, I'm done with you, and I think they'd
36:45
Speaker 1: been friends for a very long time. But of course
36:49
Speaker 1: I look back now it's like there was still no
36:50
Speaker 1: police report made.
36:52
Speaker 2: Well, that's right again. Again, you say something and it
36:56
Speaker 2: has an impact on somebody else that you're now responsible for,
37:00
Speaker 2: and there's nobody in your corner. There's nobody seeking justice
37:04
Speaker 2: for you. You and I can see why now you've
37:07
Speaker 2: just said enough of this, enough of this. You found
37:10
Speaker 2: this material in the cupboard, that you've seen your mother's
37:14
Speaker 2: lack of action. You know this individual is living in
37:17
Speaker 2: Melbourne and you think, stuff it, there's going to be
37:20
Speaker 2: some action. Now. How do you feel about how it's
37:24
Speaker 2: gone for these years? It's still not happening, it's still
37:27
Speaker 2: not making progress, and each day brings the likelihood that
37:32
Speaker 2: this perpetrator will get away with it because you'll be
37:35
Speaker 2: in the cemetery.
37:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's constantly in the back of your mind that
37:40
Speaker 1: one of these days, the next phone call from the
37:42
Speaker 1: police will be to tell me that the investigations closed
37:46
Speaker 1: because the perpetrator has died. And it's a huge concern.
37:52
Speaker 1: Hence why sort of you know, I'm trying to find
37:55
Speaker 1: you know, how can I, shall we say, help encourage
37:58
Speaker 1: the police to give my case priority because it's a
38:03
Speaker 1: unique priority. You know, I'm sure there are other older
38:06
Speaker 1: perpetrators out there of current cases, and maybe the threat
38:10
Speaker 1: for them dying is also real, But I can't say
38:13
Speaker 1: that would be all of them, that the threat of
38:17
Speaker 1: dying from old age is the reason for the priority
38:19
Speaker 1: for other cases. I think it's just that, oh, there,
38:22
Speaker 1: they're much more recent, and that's why you know, they're
38:26
Speaker 1: striking while the iron's hot. So they say, well, it's
38:30
Speaker 1: I think it's.
38:30
Speaker 2: A getting a little bit cold again for mine. But
38:32
Speaker 2: you know what, I find encouraging. That's probably the wrong word.
38:36
Speaker 2: But despite this trauma, despite all you've been through, you've
38:40
Speaker 2: had a functional life, You've had your own children, you
38:42
Speaker 2: work as a theater, nurse in the hospital, you're in
38:45
Speaker 2: a compassionate, caring profession. You've got on with life despite
38:50
Speaker 2: these things. And I think for you not to get justice,
38:55
Speaker 2: you've never complained, you've never given up, but to not
38:59
Speaker 2: get justice at this stage is a borrent to me.
39:02
Speaker 2: And I'm sure there are people listening out there right
39:04
Speaker 2: now who were also victims of historical sexual assault. Now,
39:10
Speaker 2: don't just sit there, don't just sit there, send us
39:12
Speaker 2: an email, get in touch with crime stoppers. What do
39:15
Speaker 2: you hope will happen. Now, I'm good, by the way,
39:18
Speaker 2: I'm going to send this this podcast to Queensland Police.
39:20
Speaker 2: I'm going to send it to Victoria Police, and we're
39:23
Speaker 2: going to demand some answers on this what's actually happening.
39:26
Speaker 2: If I can find this individual, why can't they, Why
39:30
Speaker 2: can't they knock on his door and ask him after
39:33
Speaker 2: all these years, what happened? And also whether he can
39:37
Speaker 2: go back to Queensland and face up to these allegations,
39:40
Speaker 2: because you're right, these pedophiles, they're rarely a one off thing.
39:47
Speaker 2: There's other instances, and we've got dozens and dozens of
39:51
Speaker 2: historical sexual assault cases involving women just like you, and
39:55
Speaker 2: he may well be right for one or two of
39:57
Speaker 2: those or more So. If you don't ask the question,
40:00
Speaker 2: you don't get the answer. And right now he's likely
40:04
Speaker 2: to escape out the chimney of the crematorium. And that's
40:08
Speaker 2: just wrong, it's monstrous.
40:10
Speaker 1: Yes, And so that's one of my reasons why I
40:14
Speaker 1: don't believe I would be his first, because when you
40:19
Speaker 1: look back at the age he would have been when
40:22
Speaker 1: he came across me, he'd already was in his forties.
40:26
Speaker 1: I can't, I just can't believe that he suddenly, you know,
40:32
Speaker 1: developed this behavior in his forties. I don't believe that.
40:39
Speaker 1: I'm much more likely to believe that there are other
40:41
Speaker 1: victims who may have come forward and said something and
40:44
Speaker 1: were also not believed, or I'm sure you've known that
40:49
Speaker 1: this happened. A lot of cases, people don't say anything
40:50
Speaker 1: at all. They just bottle it up and do hold
40:54
Speaker 1: it with them for forty fifty, sixty, whatever year is,
40:57
Speaker 1: until in their old age they finally will say something,
41:01
Speaker 1: or they wait till the perpetrators died or relevant party
41:05
Speaker 1: have died before they say something. I will just go
41:10
Speaker 1: back to your mention about my functional life. I disagree
41:14
Speaker 1: that it's been functional. It may in somewhat seem like
41:17
Speaker 1: that on the outside, but it's been It's been a struggle.
41:21
Speaker 1: You know. Yes, some are registered nurse, so I have
41:24
Speaker 1: a degree from UNI. But that was a tough slog.
41:28
Speaker 1: That was hard because of my struggles, because of my
41:32
Speaker 1: lack of self esteem of believing that I could do it,
41:36
Speaker 1: that I was worthy of it, which goes right back
41:39
Speaker 1: to the same struggles I had in schooling, not being supported,
41:43
Speaker 1: having this trauma that no one was allowed to know
41:45
Speaker 1: about alone you know, helped me through the relationship that
41:50
Speaker 1: produced my two children, was a domestic violence relationship for
41:54
Speaker 1: many years. And you and again I seem to be
41:57
Speaker 1: ahead of this curve when it comes to you know, catchphrases.
42:01
Speaker 1: And so I was a victim of grooming by my
42:03
Speaker 1: perpetrator before they knew what grooming was. All the same
42:07
Speaker 1: with a lot that happened in this domestic violence relationship,
42:10
Speaker 1: which was a lot of the you know, coercive control. Well,
42:13
Speaker 1: people didn't know what that was then, I mean, domestic
42:16
Speaker 1: violence itself was barely recognized. And even then, you know,
42:22
Speaker 1: you really, you know, unless you turned up essentially on
42:26
Speaker 1: death's door having been beaten to a pulp, you weren't believed.
42:31
Speaker 1: And even then you probably you might have been sort
42:33
Speaker 1: of well, what did you do that made him angry?
42:36
Speaker 1: Like there was and even today, like we've moved a
42:39
Speaker 1: long way with domestic violence, but we're still a long
42:42
Speaker 1: way short when it comes to, you know, the prevention
42:46
Speaker 1: and the management, et cetera. And so every step just
42:50
Speaker 1: seems to have been a struggle. I I'm single. I've
42:53
Speaker 1: been single for a long time because you know, one
42:58
Speaker 1: probably the most important factor to have in a relationship
43:01
Speaker 1: is trust and I just don't know I can never
43:05
Speaker 1: could ever trust anyone again, because you know, to be
43:09
Speaker 1: in a relationship, to have that sort of closeness, that
43:11
Speaker 1: level of you know, intimacy and so forth, that's a
43:16
Speaker 1: lot of trust that you in part to somebody else,
43:19
Speaker 1: and I don't know that I can do that. So
43:22
Speaker 1: so yes, I disagree with being functional. I think if anything,
43:26
Speaker 1: I'm probably just that, you know, it's sort of not
43:30
Speaker 1: really living. It's not you know, there's aspects of happiness,
43:34
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't say overall it's a happy life. You know.
43:37
Speaker 1: I'm now, you know, in the position of caring, ironically
43:41
Speaker 1: caring for my mother with her dementia, despite you know,
43:46
Speaker 1: essentially the lack of care that was offered to me
43:50
Speaker 1: in my time of need. And there's you know, other things,
43:55
Speaker 1: other things in there as well in the mix, just
43:57
Speaker 1: because you know, life can be crap sometimes. But out
44:03
Speaker 1: of this, I just obviously I'd like, you know, to believe,
44:07
Speaker 1: to get a move on. But I would also really
44:09
Speaker 1: implore that if there was anyone for their own circumstances,
44:14
Speaker 1: to come forward, because you know, particularly if it turns
44:17
Speaker 1: out that there's anyone who happened to have the same
44:20
Speaker 1: perpetrator as me. I would hope that that would send
44:23
Speaker 1: the investigation forward in leaps and bounds, just by the
44:28
Speaker 1: sheer fact that there's someone else who can attest to
44:32
Speaker 1: being a victim of his, because there must be out there.
44:36
Speaker 1: I just can't believe that there wouldn't be.
44:38
Speaker 2: I think you're probably right. He was working as an
44:40
Speaker 2: interstate truck driver in this period, so he was mobile,
44:44
Speaker 2: he was moving around the country, so it could well be.
44:47
Speaker 2: I realized talking to you, how I lack the words
44:51
Speaker 2: to really understand what you've been through and to help
44:54
Speaker 2: you communicate. And you've done an amazing job in doing that.
44:58
Speaker 2: And also I can sense the deep well of trauma
45:01
Speaker 2: there is not just for you, but a whole generation
45:03
Speaker 2: of young girls and women who suffered these indignities, these
45:08
Speaker 2: crimes back in the eighties. Because the more I learn
45:12
Speaker 2: about this, I've done in several cases now and it's
45:14
Speaker 2: mister cruel in Victoria, cases like that where young girls
45:18
Speaker 2: were abducted and sexually assaulted, and it was almost treated
45:21
Speaker 2: as a social welfare issue back then. And that's something
45:25
Speaker 2: that a child will eventually get over and integrate into
45:27
Speaker 2: their lives, and your story just brings it home that
45:31
Speaker 2: that's not the case at all. And I apologize for
45:34
Speaker 2: even saying the word functional. I realized it's the wrong word.
45:37
Speaker 2: You've done an amazing job. You said to me last night,
45:39
Speaker 2: you feel like a broken cup, just in pieces, and
45:43
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what that's like. I just admire your
45:46
Speaker 2: strength for putting yourself a through a police investigation when
45:50
Speaker 2: you've got to dragoon them and push them at every step,
45:54
Speaker 2: and also do this interview because I'm sure there are
45:58
Speaker 2: women listening right now, and you know who you are,
46:03
Speaker 2: you know what you've been through, and you deserve justice too.
46:07
Speaker 2: So if anything comes out of this, and I certainly
46:10
Speaker 2: hope it does, and I'm going to keep pushing this.
46:11
Speaker 2: As I said, I'm going to send the podcast to
46:13
Speaker 2: Victoria Police and Queen's an police and say is this
46:15
Speaker 2: good enough? It's one thing back in the day failing.
46:18
Speaker 2: We understand that there was a lot of reasons why
46:21
Speaker 2: it didn't go forward then, but today there's just no reason.
46:25
Speaker 2: So flu, I really appreciate you sharing your story with
46:29
Speaker 2: us today. And what message would you give to anybody
46:32
Speaker 2: else who's in your position that.
46:35
Speaker 1: I understand it's a difficult thing to talk about. You
46:39
Speaker 1: don't want to be that person, but you know, having
46:47
Speaker 1: had it buried away for so long has certainly not
46:49
Speaker 1: done me any favors, and in trying to heal, it
46:57
Speaker 1: needs to be brought to the surface, as painful as
47:00
Speaker 1: it probably is. But it's just going to eat continue
47:04
Speaker 1: to eat away at you if it's not if it's
47:08
Speaker 1: not dealt with, really, if it's not spoken about with somebody,
47:12
Speaker 1: at least talk to somebody, you know. If you don't
47:15
Speaker 1: have a trusted family, a member or friend, you know,
47:19
Speaker 1: you speak to a counselor even if you don't want
47:23
Speaker 1: to go to the police. But this has clearly been
47:26
Speaker 1: eating at me for all this time, and you know,
47:31
Speaker 1: I have deliver with the frustration that I didn't speak
47:34
Speaker 1: out sooner because I didn't, you know, essentially know who
47:36
Speaker 1: to speak out sooner. And like I said, going back
47:38
Speaker 1: to that penny drop moment, that I feel completely stupid
47:42
Speaker 1: that expecting that people did do the right thing around
47:44
Speaker 1: me at the time, and they didn't, And so I
47:49
Speaker 1: don't think I'll get closure. It is an odd term.
47:55
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it gets used a lot, but I'm
47:58
Speaker 1: hoping to get maybe one day to some sort of peace.
48:02
Speaker 1: Whether it's so it's not continuing to destroy me any
48:07
Speaker 1: more than what it already has. I wouldn't want that
48:10
Speaker 1: to be happening to other people as well, more than
48:13
Speaker 1: it already has been.
48:14
Speaker 2: And is I agree we use this word closure all
48:18
Speaker 2: the time. It's not like closing a book or closing
48:21
Speaker 2: a door. But I think it is about people finding
48:24
Speaker 2: their voice. And I think your voice is strong, and
48:27
Speaker 2: it's truthful, and you're seeking justice and I think that's
48:31
Speaker 2: and the community should support that, and the police should
48:33
Speaker 2: support that. So Flu, I really want to thank you
48:35
Speaker 2: again for sharing it with me and for choosing me.
48:39
Speaker 2: Most importantly, you've taught me a lot through this process,
48:41
Speaker 2: talking to you over the weeks, and the little bit
48:44
Speaker 2: of work I've put into it to locate the perpetrator.
48:47
Speaker 2: I hope the police are doing the same thing. They
48:49
Speaker 2: go back to that door, knock on his door, so
48:50
Speaker 2: one day he has to face it, and you might
48:53
Speaker 2: get a moment where he admits his culpability. Whether he
48:58
Speaker 2: goes to jail or something, I don't know, but that's
49:01
Speaker 2: the really least we can expect that our police will
49:03
Speaker 2: take up the casules on you will be half and
49:05
Speaker 2: other people as well. So if you're out there, I
49:08
Speaker 2: urge you have counseling, work out what you can do
49:12
Speaker 2: and if you can bring a case, call crime Stoppers
49:15
Speaker 2: one one hundred, triple three, triple zero. PLU. Thank you
49:18
Speaker 2: so much for sharing the story today. Thank you, and
49:23
Speaker 2: that's flu. It's an amazing story for mine and you
49:26
Speaker 2: can see the isolation she suffered from the very beginning
49:29
Speaker 2: where she was made to feel like she was the
49:31
Speaker 2: one causing the problem. And you've heard her voice, insistent,
49:38
Speaker 2: almost polite, saying, please give me justice, and there's more
49:42
Speaker 2: of you out there. It's not too late. Please get
49:45
Speaker 2: in touch with police and if polease won't help you,
49:48
Speaker 2: send me an email. Adam Shanner, writer at gmail dot com.
49:52
Speaker 2: This has been a real crime with Adam shanned Thank
49:54
Speaker 2: you for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode and
50:04
Speaker 2: supporting this story. Independent storytelling that shapes the world is
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