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The Love of Candy Almost Drove a Cactus Extinct · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. There's the one and only.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Max Williams are super producer on the other side of
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  Speaker 1: the zoom. I'm Ben a big, big fan of Halloween
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: because it means a lot of things to a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people. But uh, you know what it means to
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  Speaker 1: a lot of kids, right, no can Yeah? Oh, I
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: was gonna say, uh, um, prank's like like like like
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: like vandalism, tracts of yes, exactly, tricks. Now it's true, Candy.
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  Speaker 1: I was thinking, what do you do you dress up for? Hell?
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  Speaker 1: Are we? Ben? Is anything that you do? Yeah? I do.
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  Speaker 1: It's one of my It's one of my favorite holidays,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: absolutely other than everybody's birthday. Everybody listening now, your birthday
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: is one of my favorite holidays. You are such a sweetheart. Um,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you know, I really really enjoy Halloween too. It's one
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  Speaker 1: of my favorite holidays. I think, probably my most favorite.
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  Speaker 1: But I'm not a dresser upper, and some people like
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  Speaker 1: to shame me about that. I don't think that's right, Ben,
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  Speaker 1: I don't think that's right. Yes, let a man. Let
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  Speaker 1: a man enjoy his holiday in his own way. Yeah,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: send him to me. Uh, what are you gonna do?
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  Speaker 1: You're you gonna rough him up for me? I'll dress
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  Speaker 1: him down at the very las Um. Yeah, the costumes
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  Speaker 1: are a huge deal. The laziest costume I do is
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: um what's his name from? I think Ryan Gosling from
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  Speaker 1: dr Because he's just like the jacket and that's a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: nice jacket. Bad. I mean, that's a jacket. It's a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: nice jacket. But you know, maybe that's something that is
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: helpful to like finding finding you go to easy costume.
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  Speaker 1: We have an ex Max yet though, Max, are you
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  Speaker 1: uh would you call a dresser rupper Halloween? I gotta mit, no,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not. I mean, Halloween just wasn't that pig of
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  Speaker 1: a holiday in my family. So it's just never held
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  Speaker 1: that important of a place for me. Like I go
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  Speaker 1: hang out with people, but I'm usually the guy with
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  Speaker 1: a really like pretty like you know, thrown together, Like
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  Speaker 1: I put a jacket on and I am I don't know, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: all right, say some scary movie that no one's heard of,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm this guy even if that character
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  Speaker 1: didn't exist, Like you know, but but, but, but again,
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  Speaker 1: I feel like we should be able to enjoy our
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  Speaker 1: holiday in our own way, and no one should give
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  Speaker 1: us crap for not choosing to participate in the way
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  Speaker 1: that they choose to participate. I really enjoy going with
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  Speaker 1: my kid and her friends because they're super into Halloween.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, Halloween is like every day for them. They're
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  Speaker 1: into cosplay, so they always go full on with that
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  Speaker 1: and I just kind of accompany them on the tricks
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  Speaker 1: and or treating, and you know, they love to go
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  Speaker 1: to the neighborhood and they mark them all these kids
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  Speaker 1: that they got like a like a Charlie Day style board,
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  Speaker 1: you know, with the pins and all of the houses
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  Speaker 1: that have the poshest candy, that's the one that has
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  Speaker 1: the full candy bars. But I'll tell you one thing
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  Speaker 1: I have never encountered on a trick or treat excursion
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  Speaker 1: is cactus candy. And there's a reason for that. This
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  Speaker 1: episode is going to be about candy, which is why
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  Speaker 1: we you know, we've got candy and Halloween on our minds.
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  Speaker 1: Is no doubt some of our fellow ridiculous historians do.
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  Speaker 1: But once upon a time, there was a very very
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  Speaker 1: very popular candy that was made out of something called
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  Speaker 1: the barrel cactus. Our story really begins in eighteen nine one.
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  Speaker 1: There's this guy, well, he's a kid, he's twelve years old.
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  Speaker 1: His name is Dominic Dinofrio, and he has traveled all
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  Speaker 1: the way to Arizona from southern Italy. He's on a train.
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  Speaker 1: He's looking out and he sees the southwestern desert extending
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  Speaker 1: for miles and miles and miles, and it's an uninterrupted
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  Speaker 1: forest of cacti, of different types of cacti, and everywhere
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  Speaker 1: he sees this thing, this big, giant, round sort of
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  Speaker 1: cactus called the barrel cactus. It was known to the
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  Speaker 1: native people as the vis Naga. Yeah, and and Dominic
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  Speaker 1: had a dream ben um, not like you know, just
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  Speaker 1: to sleeping on the train. Dream like a big picture
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  Speaker 1: like life changing dream, kind of a weird dream that
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  Speaker 1: you can really only have if you were part of
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  Speaker 1: a confectionary dynasty of sorts. He got to Phoenix, he
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  Speaker 1: went to work for his older brother's candy factory or confectionery,
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  Speaker 1: and he again had this dream. And he has this
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  Speaker 1: quote in that that we found in this amazing Auntlass
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  Speaker 1: obscure article where he says it came to my mind
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  Speaker 1: that millions of dollars could be made out of cactus. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: And so he concocted this plan where he would um
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  Speaker 1: turn this cactuses, this cacti into whole cold, hard cash
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  Speaker 1: cactus cash, but by way of and the cacti into candy.
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  Speaker 1: Very specific He's looking out, he's seeing these very prohibitively
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  Speaker 1: spiky plants, and he immediately thinks candy. I don't quite understand,
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  Speaker 1: but the kid had moxie, the kid had vision. But
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  Speaker 1: there was precedent for this in n by the way
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  Speaker 1: he bought the store from his brother and began to
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  Speaker 1: make his dreams come true. But this precedent came in
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  Speaker 1: the form of the history of the Native American people
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  Speaker 1: that lived in this part of the country. Uh. The
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  Speaker 1: Pima tribes and and several others used the vis Naga's
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  Speaker 1: pulp as food. They would d spine um these these plants.
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  Speaker 1: They would actually used the spines sometimes for fish hooks,
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  Speaker 1: which is kind of cool. But then they would boil
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  Speaker 1: the plants to soften the pulp and then they would
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  Speaker 1: eat it and get you know, sustenance. But then Frea
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  Speaker 1: kind of took this model and ran with it, but
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  Speaker 1: in a slightly different and more confectionary direction. For sure. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the seeing magic ingredient here is sugar and a lot
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  Speaker 1: of elbow grease. So he hired a team of folks
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  Speaker 1: to start hacking down these barrel cacti. And they would
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  Speaker 1: find these plants anywhere from two to five ft tall,
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  Speaker 1: and again, to give you a sense of how big
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  Speaker 1: these are, they could weigh anywhere between eighty two a
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  Speaker 1: hundred pounds. And then they would knock all the spikes
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  Speaker 1: off them, de spike them. They would haul them back
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  Speaker 1: to the factory. Then they would peel and core and
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  Speaker 1: slice up this vis naga into these small cubes, and
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  Speaker 1: they would boil them and boil them and boil them
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  Speaker 1: until they were tender, and then they would cook them
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  Speaker 1: repeatedly in sugar syrup. And each time they cooked them
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  Speaker 1: it would be the temperature would be higher. And then,
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  Speaker 1: I love this, and it seems like so many candy
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  Speaker 1: makers have something like this. Donofrio had a secret process,
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  Speaker 1: and through this top secret process, his team would then
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  Speaker 1: take those cubes and crystallize them, cooked them, crystallize them again,
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  Speaker 1: and then let them sit out to cool and hearten
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  Speaker 1: and what they got if you saw it was kind
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  Speaker 1: of you've probably encountered something like this before, folks. It's
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  Speaker 1: a it's a little bit like a gum drop. It's
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  Speaker 1: got this kind of sugary, crunchy crust, and then it's
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  Speaker 1: got a little like a jelly like gelatinous core. And
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  Speaker 1: people were amazed by this. And also there's some really
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  Speaker 1: good marketing because one of Donofrio's earliest ads clearly talks
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  Speaker 1: about how unexpected it is for cacti to produce candy,
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  Speaker 1: or at least in the popular culture of the time.
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  Speaker 1: The ad has a headline that says that man's name
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  Speaker 1: will go down in history who first converted the ugly
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  Speaker 1: desert plant into such a delight for delicacy. And people
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  Speaker 1: loved it. People loved it. They did and highly recommend
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  Speaker 1: Anatlas Obscura article in their gastro Obscura offshoot by tal mcfeenia.
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  Speaker 1: They were pulling some good information from and on the
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  Speaker 1: very top of that article you can see an image
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  Speaker 1: from one of Dinofrio's early marketing campaigns that shows what
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  Speaker 1: looks to be an aztech gentleman. Uh mean, he's wearing
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  Speaker 1: like a cloak and has the kind of traditional like
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  Speaker 1: az tech like headband and like an arm band, and
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  Speaker 1: he's handing a giant box of Dinofrio's cactus candies to
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  Speaker 1: a lady, presumably to win her heart. And yeah, it's true,
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  Speaker 1: there was this whole like lore wrapped up in the marketing,
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  Speaker 1: but it was all total bs. But it definitely, you know,
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  Speaker 1: made for a good story. He actually leaned more on
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  Speaker 1: these toll Tech legends, this idea that there was the
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  Speaker 1: sun god who had imprisoned a maiden's soul inside the
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  Speaker 1: cactus that we're talking about, the Viznaga cactus, and it
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  Speaker 1: was to protect her purity, and as legend would have it,
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  Speaker 1: according to Didofrio. Anyway, uh, the toll Tech wedding ritual
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  Speaker 1: where prospective grooms had to make cactus candy by tearing
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  Speaker 1: the thorns out with their teeth and then crystallizing the
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  Speaker 1: pulp in wild honey was was born of this whole
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  Speaker 1: sun god situation. And he printed images like to what
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  Speaker 1: I'm talking about all over sures and marketing materials. He
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  Speaker 1: also claimed that the Dinofrio family was not Italian, but
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  Speaker 1: in fact that they were descended from a line of
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  Speaker 1: Mexican candy makers, beginning with what din Afrio the royal
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  Speaker 1: candy maker to the ancient Toltec king um Man and
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  Speaker 1: you know, and again Alice Obscure points out, and I
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  Speaker 1: completely agree that these claims could have been explained away
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  Speaker 1: as being the sort of satire, kind of funny tongue
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  Speaker 1: in cheek, but folks mainly took them at face value, right, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they did. I want to step back for a modern
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  Speaker 1: example of this kind of mythology, because he's not the
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  Speaker 1: only candy maker who did this. How Gondas is a
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  Speaker 1: made up word. Haggenas was invented that you everybody knows.
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  Speaker 1: The ice cream haggenda is very popular here in the US.
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  Speaker 1: It was invented by a guy named Ruben Mattis because
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: he wanted a name that sounded Danish, and so he
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  Speaker 1: just made up the word kind of the same way
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  Speaker 1: uh din Afrio made up this legend, and the gimmick
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  Speaker 1: paid off, because if you've seen Madman, or if you've
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  Speaker 1: read propaganda by Edward Burns, then you know that at
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  Speaker 1: its height, advertising is really selling an idea, a concept,
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  Speaker 1: a story, and so this story became part of what
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  Speaker 1: people were buying. I would pose it with Donofrio as candy,
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  Speaker 1: and his business started booming. It wasn't just people ordering
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  Speaker 1: it through the mail, stores were ordering it candy stores
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  Speaker 1: across the US. In just the company ended up producing
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  Speaker 1: fifteen thousand pounds of this stuff, and soon enough other
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  Speaker 1: people would try to get in on the game because
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  Speaker 1: they thought this cactus candy thing was a pretty good gig.
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  Speaker 1: That's where George Karameros comes in. George was also an immigrant.
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  Speaker 1: He was originally from Greece, and he and his brother
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  Speaker 1: in law started their own cactus candy operation over in
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  Speaker 1: El Paso, which is about four hundred miles away from Donofrio.
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  Speaker 1: They had made candy in Mexico City previously until about
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  Speaker 1: eighteen and then they fled north during the Mexican Revolution
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  Speaker 1: and when they got to the US, when they made
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  Speaker 1: it to Texas, they started bottling beer and soda, and
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: then prohibition came in and these guys are like, can't
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  Speaker 1: we just catch a break? So George is walking through
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  Speaker 1: this market, the South Door market, and he's thinking, what
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  Speaker 1: am I gonna do? What? Why is? Why is it
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  Speaker 1: always something? And we've all been there emotionally, you know,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes you just need to win. And that's when George
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  Speaker 1: sees ah cactus candy stand and he goes to the
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  Speaker 1: guys selling the cactus candy, gives them five bucks, and
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  Speaker 1: he says, all right, teach me how you make this.
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  Speaker 1: Also five bucks pretty significant some of money at the time.
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  Speaker 1: And this story is reprinted. You can you can read
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  Speaker 1: this in uh we found it in this excellent piece
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  Speaker 1: by Steve Frango's writing for the National Herald, George Karameros,
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  Speaker 1: The Forgotten King of Cactus Candy. You can see this
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  Speaker 1: like this was printed widely and this excerpt nol if
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  Speaker 1: you'll do the honors comes from MA and the Amarillo
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  Speaker 1: Daily News. I love the Forgotten King of Cactus Candy,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: big fan of literation. Yeah, dress like him for Halloween.
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  Speaker 1: It'll be way better than my hh huld's costume, which
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  Speaker 1: was real. I could probably pull that off. I probably
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  Speaker 1: would just need like a sweater of some kind, maybe
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  Speaker 1: a hat, you know, some lollipop st total people. People
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  Speaker 1: will completely recognize that. Well, here he goes. Thirty years ago,
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  Speaker 1: George D. Caramaros a seven dollar a week. So the
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  Speaker 1: fountain clerk was walking through South El Paso when he
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  Speaker 1: saw an outdoor stand selling homemade candy bars as big
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  Speaker 1: as his fist for a penny. He was curious to
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  Speaker 1: know what kind of candy sold for that price, even
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  Speaker 1: thirty years ago. That was cheap. He sampled a piece
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  Speaker 1: and it was good. He offered the standowner five dollars
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  Speaker 1: to show him how it was made. That led to
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  Speaker 1: the building of a business that now sells cactus candy
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  Speaker 1: in every state of the Union and abroad. UM. And
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: he was pretty good at a at a marketing kind
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  Speaker 1: of stunt. So he got three hundred pounds of the cactus,
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  Speaker 1: the viz Naga cactus, and he displayed them in downtown
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  Speaker 1: El Paso. And he actually kind of had din Afrio
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  Speaker 1: beat in some ways because he diversified, you know. He
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  Speaker 1: Dinofrio was just making this little gum droppy thing, whereas
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  Speaker 1: Carameros decided to take it to the next level. Um.
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  Speaker 1: He made preserves and ice cream. UM, and he would
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  Speaker 1: make different flavors um, you know, infused the candy with
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  Speaker 1: different fruit flavors, and he even coated them with chocolate.
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  Speaker 1: And he claimed that he also had a secret um
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  Speaker 1: recipe that would keep them from molding. Right, Yeah, preservation move,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I do wanna I do want to note that, yes,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you're not mishearing ridiculous historians. I did have an H. H.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Holmes costume if you're familiar with HS Holmes and nailed it. Max.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: It's true. I know you don't believe me, but it
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: was the spitting image. Anyway. Uh, maybe I'll maybe I'll
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: find that picture and post it. But that this aside,
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  Speaker 1: like you see how people people were super into cactus candy.
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  Speaker 1: The El Paso Times even talks about what you were
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: talking about and all that preservation method that was really
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  Speaker 1: his secret sauce, they say in November write in retrospect,
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  Speaker 1: they say, somewhere along the line, a secret process was used,
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  Speaker 1: a process Karameros invented to preserve the candy. The old days,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: all such cactus candy quickly molded, but not after Karameros
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  Speaker 1: is innovation, and here we must pause. Caameros must certainly
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: did not come up with his method of preventing cactus
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  Speaker 1: candy from molding overnight. For six years, he experimented with
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: his candy cooking before developing a preservative process that remained
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: his secret during many, many years of successful merchandizing. So
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  Speaker 1: six years. Whatever his secret was, it wasn't just like
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: marketing fluff like the toll tech story. He got in
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  Speaker 1: the actus candy trenches and he figured out how to
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  Speaker 1: how to make it well last much longer, not forever,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: but longer exactly. So of course, you know, Karameros, he
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  Speaker 1: didn't really know about Dinnfrio, I don't think particularly. Maybe
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  Speaker 1: he did, but he found his inspiration just walking around
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  Speaker 1: at more of a local, kind of artisanal version of
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: cactus candy. But um, there were others. They were trying
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to copy these guys and jump on the cactus candy cavalcade,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the candy bandwagon whatever. Um, so there we go boom.
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  Speaker 1: So throughout the twenties there were smaller, much more fly
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: by night kind of operations that sprung up around the Southwest,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: even into Texas and California, because again this was all about,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: you know, using an indigenous plant that was available there
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and nowhere else in the country. And while you know,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: optimistic outlooks on it considered the cactus supply to be
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: almost in exhaust stable, you know, nothing last forever. This
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  Speaker 1: trend was raging. These products were flying off shells. People
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  Speaker 1: love the stuff. Then in four we have this journalist
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: from El pasto named Norman Walker, who sort of throws
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: a wet blanket on this cactus party. He says, quote,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: eating Mexican cactus candy is like kissing your sister, which
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: is a weird American saying that refers to like coming
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: in second place A lot of times it fails to satisfy. Um.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: He also had a problem with a lot of the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: marketing and a lot of this kind of co opting
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: of uh indigenous culture. Um. And then he says, quote,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: some success has been attained, but it does not repeat
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: it stuff in the sales. So essentially he's saying that, Um,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: this was a fat and it was not going to last.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I think I think you're being a little too kind
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: to Norman Walker. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: see him talking about the very real concerns of appropriation.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: To me, he just seemed like a cranky candy hate here.
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  Speaker 1: But maybe he was. Maybe he just woke up on
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  Speaker 1: the wrong side of the of the cactus bed, or
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: maybe he got maybe he got done dirty by a
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: cactus in his past, you know, and he was confronting
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  Speaker 1: that trauma like one of those cartoon moments where you
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  Speaker 1: fall into the cactus patch and you know, and then like, oh,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you grab your button, pull out the spikes and he
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: shook his fist at the skies. That never again, Max,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: what's up? I gotta ask? Then you said the wrong
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: side of the cactus that? I mean, I'm just thinking
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: about laying on cactus? What what? What is the right
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: side of that bed? That's the thing. Yeah, it's like
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: it's like a one hand clapping kind of it's a
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: very lazy version of his own cone. But it's it's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: it's a good image though, bed, because a cactus bed
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  Speaker 1: would would presumably be, you know, a bed of cactus,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: like a plot of cactus plants. So I think he's
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: said cactus cactus bed. Yeah, it doesn't look super pleasant
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: if you just do his quick image search. But here's
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: the thing, Norman Walker and their anti cactus candy people
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: were not the majority. We can tell, because the cactus
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: supply in this area began to run dry. The trend continued,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and by the late nineteen twenties, again this is coming
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: from that Atlas Obscura article. By the late nineteen twenties,
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  Speaker 1: the desert supply of this once abundant plant looked to
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: be on the way out. Papers started reporting about this
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: news of the day. They were running headlines like, oh
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: a sweet tool, the eating up cactus. Uh, they didn't
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: have a question mark. I just I like picture that reporter.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: And people in l a we're also complaining about it,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: you know, and other folks were conservationist. We're starting to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: have a problem. People were concerned about the environment. We're saying,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: you know, barrel cactus is being taken out by their
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: truckloads for what to make candy. And eventually in both
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: San Bernardino and Riverside County put in a law banning
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the removal of desert plant life. But no, I don't
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: think it really worked. They think at that point people
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: just started stealing the cacti. Yeah, that's true. And they
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: were stealing it for reasons other than candy making. I mean,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: if you've ever been to l A, um, you've certainly
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: seen lots of really cool cactus beds in people's yards
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: with all varieties. Um. So folks were taking them for
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: gardens for even like lining their goldfish bowls. Uh. And
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: it seemed as though a mass extinction of the particular
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: cactus of the barrel cactus might have been on the horizon.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: There were groups kind of the fellow of the umbrella
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: of Friends of the Desert that started to become very
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: popular across southern California, and they would lobby lawmakers to
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: offer protection, um, you know, and to to you know,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: give these plants protected status under you know, the same
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: way you would like an endangered species of animal. And
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: they also did a lot to sort of overhaul the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: image of the desert. For a lot of folks, it
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: would seemed like a very bleak, sad place, you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: they associated with like the dust bowl, uh and like
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: grapes of wrath and stuff like that. But instead they
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: tried to get people to shift uh their perception of
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the desert to something more along the lines of a
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: bio diverse kind of you know, wonderland, which it can
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: be both, right, but it really is pretty incredible place
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: out there with all of the way those uh, these
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: species of plants can survive with such a little water
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: and thrive and they just like take on these like
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: dr Susian type shapes and and and array is really
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: really cool stuff. But Arizona starts doing the same thing,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: and they begin to protect the status of desert plants, uh,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: and that includes the already and danger this point giant
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: barrel cactus. But that didn't bother our friend din a Frio.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: This was his bread and butter and he was not
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: going to go easily into that. Good night, sir, So
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: for the next twenty years he would be working specifically
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: with a individual in the Native American community to get
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: cacti from this guy's reservation, because on the reservation you
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: could still harvest barrel cactus if you had a permit.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: And over in El Paso, Karameros would send his workers
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: way into the mountains of New Mexico the Oregon Mountains
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: for vis Naga. And he did this until he sold
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: his candy business entirely in the early nineteen fifties. It's
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: so interesting, Ben. This remediately makes me think of the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: movie adaptation Um, which was an adaptation of The Orchid
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Thief of the book by Susan Orlean the journalists from
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: The New Yorker, and in it, one of the main
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: characters Laroche, who was like an orchid harvester the book
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: was called The Orchid Thief Um. He gets around orchid
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: protection laws by hiring Native Americans to pick them off
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: of their land, off of off of land that's like
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: protected of you know, reservation swamp lands, and that's the
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: only way that he can get around it too. So
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: it's very very clever little loophole there. I would I'm
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: not a fan. I consider it plant poaching. So anyway,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: it wasn't, as I said, wasn't until fourteen that this
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: region of New Mexico finally got federal protection. So it
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: wasn't until that the barrel cactus in this area was
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: protected by environmental laws. It came very close to going
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: extinct the vis naga, and it's extinction wouldn't have been
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: entirely for candy, as we said, but candy was a
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: major factor. Luckily, this cactus is on the spiky rebound
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: and you can find it today across the southwestern deserts
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and in Mexico. It definitely had a tough battle for survival.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: It's still listed the species that's used for candy as vulnerable,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and trends indicate the population is still decreasing, and you'll
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: see authorities in both Mexico and the US arguing that
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: further legal action needs to be taken to protect it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And I gotta say, have you, either of you guys,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: ever been out to the desert to the southwest. You
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: have been through California and I've taken a train from
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles to San Francisco, so you see a good
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: bit of of of desert e stuff through there. But
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I haven't really been to Arizona or New Mexico. You
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: see the Grand Canyon if you get a chance, I mean,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: go out to New Mexico. Uh. The first time I
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: saw it, even as a kid, I thought, wow, this
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: is where God got into abstract arts. It's beautiful, it's
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: in a very minimalist way, and its and it's you know,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who aren't familiar with
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the desert me confuse it because it can look minimalistic.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: That may confuse it with an empty place. But it's
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: very much not. It's a rich, rich ecosystem, and like
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: any other ecosystem, it needs to be protected. But if
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: you go out Arizona way and you want to think
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: about the size of the desert and all these beautiful
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: notions of the universe and or place within it, stop
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: by a roadside you know, roadside stands, Stop by a
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: gas station or something. Because in Arizona you can still
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: pick up cactus candy. Of course, yes, you can also
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: find it on Amazon, but where's the adventure in that. Also,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: it's not barrel cactus anymore. I think, I think most
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of it now is is uh, prickly pear fruit. Most
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: of the stuff you'll find, yeah, which is way more
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: sustainable and a pretty good stand in for the barrel cactus. Yeah,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: you'll see it in grocery stores and restaurants, you know,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: like the little candy dish when you leave. And actually,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: the Hohokam people of South Arizona would eat the entire
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: body of the prickly pear cactus, including the pads, which
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: they had to de spine, and they would roast the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: pits um, while members of the Tohono Odoha nation from
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Arizona and Mexico would eat the fruits and the pads.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And actually, much like the weird loophole we were talking
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: about earlier, have indigenous rights to harvest them in Tucsons
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Saguaro National Park. So if you want to learn more
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: about this, highly recommend checking out another gastro Obscura article,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: this one by Bevin Dunn called how an Arizonan and
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: company turns cacti into candy. You can get a look
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: at the process of taking this from you know, from
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the ground all the way to the delicious delicacy it becomes.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And you know, looking at this, I'm pretty sure that
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I've had this cactus candy before and it was good.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I don't have the biggest sweet tooth, but but I
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: love novelty foods. You guys knew that, So I am
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: super down to try even more cactus candy. And like that.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: You know, what, what are the odds that somebody is
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: listening to this now eating cactus candy? I don't know,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: probably pretty pretty reasonable in certain parts of the country. Prepare, uh,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: they make you can make You can get like juice
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: versions of it too, or at least as the flavoring.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: And it is. It is tasty. And just to be clear,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: the pads, I believe are the cactus e cactus parts
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: of the prickly pear cactus. And then the fruits are
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: like the little kind of nubbins that they come off
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the top. They're like really cool looking little red fruits.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And that's the part that is harvested to make the candy.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: But you can also the cactus themselves. Yeah. Oh, and
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: speaking of eating there's one thing that I thought it
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: would be fun to hit. And this is also something
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: This is something gave Founds to credit. Credit to him.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: The Smithsonian and NPR did looked into something that will
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: be of interest to many of our fellow ridiculous historians.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: As Halloween gets closer and closer. It turns out that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: there is a a physics to eating candy. And this
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: came this. Uh, these articles reference a story or a
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: paper in physics education. So the thing with candy is
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: it doesn't last forever, right you eat it spite sized,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: it's gone, or you know, like it's cotton, candy just
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: sort of dissolves in your mouth, etcetera, etcetera. This team
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: of physicists in Austria wrote an actual paper, scientific paper
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: applying physics to eating candy to figure out how how
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: you can make the experience last for the longest time.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: And they said, if you do everything right, you can
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: enjoy just one single piece of candy for up to
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: nearly half an hour. And the secret, I don't think
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: it's super surprising, Max. The secret is just don't bite
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: or chew. That's they just just hold it in your mouth.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: They just they wrote a whole paper on this. Uh.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: In their paper get this, they said they're going to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: investigate the quote serious questions on the optimal strategy of
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: enjoying a candy. And I picture that in kind of
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: a Christopher Walt's voice, you know, the guy, the amazing actor.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: He's also a goody goody to move strategy will enjoying
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: your candy. Yeah, that's the secret. And I think that's
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: that's also our show. You think it is our show,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: but not our our show show, just our episode show
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: right episode episode episode show? Um, well, cool man, this
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: is a fun one. It makes me I don't know.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: We've definitely got some pretty cool specialty grocery stores here
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: in Atlanta. On Buford Highway Way, there's a place called
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the Buford Highway Farmers Market that has lots of cool
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: imported candies and you know, confections and like, you know,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: all kinds of cooking ingredients and sauces from all over
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the world. I would not be surprised if in the
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Latin American section perhaps they had some of these cactus candies.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I think I want to check it out next time
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I go there and give him a try. But ship
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, also go to UH North decade Ur.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: There's some great Indians sweet shops that I highly recommend
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: checking out UH and let us know what your favorite
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: regional candies are, because so many places have this candy
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: that's like well known or confection that's well known in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: that part of the world or even in that city community,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: but isn't very well known outside of that region. So
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: we'd love to hear about that with I personally, I'd
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: love to hear about your favorite Halloween costumes, some of
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: your creepy costumes. Feel free to post pictures or costumes
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: that you put your pets in, as long as your
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: pets are cool with it. You can post those over
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: on the Facebook, where we've got a page called Ridiculous Historians.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: You can also find us online, not just as a show,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: but as individuals. That's right. You can find me on
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Instagram pretty much exclusively, where I am at how Now
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Noel Brown. You can find me on Twitter where I
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: am at Ben Bolan hs W. You can get a
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes look at some of my many sketchy
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: and non sketchy various projects and endeavors by heading over
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: to Instagram where I am at Ben Boland Bow l
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I N. Thanks as always to Mr Max Williams. Thanks
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: very much to our own Prickly Cactus Man, miss Off
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, a k. The Quister, and thanks, as we said,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to Gabe Luizier, our awesome research associate. Huge thanks to
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Christopher hasiotis here in spirit, Alex Williams who composed our theme,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: and anyone else that we've we've forgot my mom. I'd
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: like to take my mom. She's cool. UM wouldn't be
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: here without her. Thank you Ben for being um my
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: companion on this uh delightful Cactus E Confectionery journey. I've
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: got to think, you know what, I think I might
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: go into ridiculous historians and post this thing my mom did.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I'm so proud of her. She made a snoopy pumpkin
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: for these kids she volunteers with, and she nailed it.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: It looks so good. Check it out. We'll see you
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: next time, folks. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.