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Zach Green on purpose-driven media · A New Angle

0:09
SPEAKER_02: This is A New Angle, a show about cool people doing awesome things in and around Montana.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Justin Angle.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: This show is supported by First Security Bank,
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
0:22
SPEAKER_02: and the University of Montana College of Business.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Hey folks, welcome back and thanks for tuning in.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: Today,
0:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm speaking with Zach Green,
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SPEAKER_02: the president of Be Alive Studios in Bozeman,
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Montana,
0:35
SPEAKER_02: and the co-founder of Rivers Are Life.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: If we can keep people curious,
0:39
SPEAKER_00: and that's that gap between what we know and what we want to know,
0:44
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the secret sauce.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: Zach began his career on CBS's Survivor and oversaw production of the hugely
0:52
SPEAKER_02: successful survival series Alone.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: At Be Alive,
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SPEAKER_02: Zach and his colleagues use multimedia storytelling to excite people about outdoor
1:00
SPEAKER_02: adventure and inspire conservation.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: Zach, thanks for joining me.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Hey, thank you for having me.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so tell us, where did you grow up and what did your parents do?
1:11
SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Connecticut.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: My mom is a nurse and my dad was an executive in the reinsurance industry based mostly in Manhattan.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Super.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: So give us sort of the summary of how you made your way into the film industry.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: The short version of it is I studied abroad when I was in college and I lived in
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Kenya and Tanzania for just about a year.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: I was studying archaeology and some environmental studies,
1:41
SPEAKER_00: and I ended up getting connected with a crew from National Geographic when I was
1:45
SPEAKER_00: doing some wildlife management there.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Once I realized that that was a thing, that that was a life that could be led, I wanted to do it.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Knowing nothing about storytelling or television or filmmaking or photography,
1:58
SPEAKER_00: but I just sort of figured it out.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: I graduated, got my degrees, and turned my attention immediately towards archaeology.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: trying to march down this path.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: And here we are all these years later.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: You paint a picture of being in the right place at the right time with National Geographic,
2:13
SPEAKER_02: but that's an elite organization.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: Were there some secrets to how you broke in?
2:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, so many folks are interested in getting into film and media and creation.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, how did it actually happen?
2:26
SPEAKER_00: I was kind of a driver, a tour guide.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: And so my connection with Nat Geo at the time
2:32
SPEAKER_00: was limited to that.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: What I did do as I graduated,
2:36
SPEAKER_00: I got the only job with any connection in the entertainment space that I could get
2:40
SPEAKER_00: was with CBS in ad sales.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: So in Manhattan, wearing a suit and tie, sitting in a cubicle for just about two years, selling ad space.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: It was good, it was a great job, great people, but it wasn't for me.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to get on the creative side,
2:56
SPEAKER_00: but the naive part of me didn't understand that the business side and the creative
3:01
SPEAKER_00: side
3:02
SPEAKER_00: didn't have a ton of overlap.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: I was there for September 11th in Manhattan.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And I was in my early 20s and realized that if something like this can happen,
3:15
SPEAKER_00: I may as well be doing something I love.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: And so in earnest,
3:19
SPEAKER_00: it lit that sort of fire under me to go after getting into the entertainment
3:25
SPEAKER_00: industry in the way that I wanted to.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: And so one of the shows that I happened to sell for was this
3:30
SPEAKER_00: in the early days of Survivor.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: And that's the show that I got into.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: That was my first step into the entertainment industry and finding out that I had
3:41
SPEAKER_00: zero skill in that industry and they politely told me to keep in touch,
3:45
SPEAKER_00: which I did.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: I politely and persistently kept in touch with them for about 10 months until I was
3:50
SPEAKER_00: offered a two-week job on season five in Thailand.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And I quit my job in New York for an eight-week gig in the entertainment industry on Survivor.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: So I'm hearing the themes of sort of persistence and then being able to take a big
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SPEAKER_02: risk when the moment arises.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't often give a lot of advice,
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SPEAKER_00: but in the entertainment industry,
4:15
SPEAKER_00: there's no one direct way to get it done.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: So no one person's story is the same as another, which is odd because in other industries you
4:26
SPEAKER_00: You study,
4:27
SPEAKER_00: you get a degree,
4:28
SPEAKER_00: you get your foot in the door at a company,
4:29
SPEAKER_00: and there's a path in the entertainment industry,
4:32
SPEAKER_00: and you can bounce around a lot.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: So to that end,
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SPEAKER_00: polite persistence,
4:38
SPEAKER_00: working hard,
4:39
SPEAKER_00: having an incredible work ethic,
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SPEAKER_00: and going above and beyond,
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SPEAKER_00: and just having...
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SPEAKER_00: a good logical brain making, you know, good decisions.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh,
4:51
SPEAKER_00: but then also I find that if you tell the people that are the decision makers,
4:57
SPEAKER_00: what it is you want to do,
4:58
SPEAKER_00: even if it's an ultimate goal and there's a lot of space between where you are and
5:02
SPEAKER_00: where you want to go,
5:04
SPEAKER_00: it's helpful because then those people,
5:06
SPEAKER_00: especially again in the entertainment industry,
5:08
SPEAKER_00: which is very,
5:09
SPEAKER_00: um,
5:10
SPEAKER_00: It's gig oriented.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: It's contract work.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: And the jobs come up haphazardly.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Start dates aren't always, you know, they're not always end to end.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: So you want to be top of mind.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: You want to stay in front of the right people.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's just done with polite persistence.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's such great advice, Zach.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's particularly hard to convey and more important in the current
5:35
SPEAKER_02: environment where my experience with students is that they're growing more and more
5:41
SPEAKER_02: reticent to be that assertive and telling the people around them and the people up
5:46
SPEAKER_02: the food chain from them what it is they want to do.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: that notion of just simply telling people what it is you want to do and trying to
5:56
SPEAKER_02: be top of mind in the people that have access to opportunity that could benefit you.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: It just seems like it's such great advice.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's busy.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, in today's world, we're busier than ever and things can get lost, right?
6:10
SPEAKER_00: So an email,
6:12
SPEAKER_00: as a student,
6:12
SPEAKER_00: if I sent an email or somebody that was new in the industry,
6:16
SPEAKER_00: in the entertainment industry,
6:16
SPEAKER_00: if I send an email to someone,
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And they didn't get back to me.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: Well,
6:20
SPEAKER_00: I could just say,
6:21
SPEAKER_00: oh,
6:21
SPEAKER_00: well,
6:22
SPEAKER_00: they didn't want to help me or they didn't have,
6:25
SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: I didn't have what they needed in order to help me.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: But the truth is you probably just got lost in the fray.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: And so that's where the polite persistence comes in.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: So talk briefly about how you navigated from one opportunity to the next.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you've worked on so many successful productions across a variety of outlets and channels.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: How have you made choices in your career?
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you have to take a risk and say no to a project, even if you are wanting for work.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: And for me, I was always drawn to the adventure genre.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Survivor was an amazing first foray, but I
7:06
SPEAKER_00: I've worked for Discovery Channel and National Geographic and the History Channel,
7:10
SPEAKER_00: and I've sort of become adept and known for creating and producing shows in the
7:18
SPEAKER_00: survival genre.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: So being comfortable going to really far-flung,
7:23
SPEAKER_00: hard-to-reach places and make all the types of decisions that are required in those
7:29
SPEAKER_00: types of locations.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Once I sort of realized I was gravitating towards that type of storytelling...
7:35
SPEAKER_00: I started to be able to identify what projects I thought might
7:41
SPEAKER_00: not,
7:42
SPEAKER_00: not only be beneficial,
7:43
SPEAKER_00: but be fun to make,
7:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
7:45
SPEAKER_00: ultimately,
7:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
7:45
SPEAKER_00: I want to be committed and I want to be,
7:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
7:48
SPEAKER_00: to have some,
7:50
SPEAKER_00: some buy-in to the project.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: And so if I'm,
7:53
SPEAKER_00: if I really love the concept and I love the talent and I love the place that we're
7:59
SPEAKER_00: going to and the challenge of,
8:01
SPEAKER_00: of pulling it off,
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be that much more invested in the project.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good compass.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about Be Alive.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, what is it and how did it come to be?
8:13
SPEAKER_00: Not only are we a world-class production studio, but ultimately we're a purpose-driven organization.
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SPEAKER_00: Our goal at the end of the day,
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SPEAKER_00: we want to unite the outdoor,
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SPEAKER_00: sustainability,
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SPEAKER_00: conservation,
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SPEAKER_00: adventure communities.
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SPEAKER_00: And the way that we believe you can do that is through stories.
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SPEAKER_00: We believe that stories have the power to change the world, right?
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SPEAKER_00: Not only here in Montana or Michigan, where the other half of the company is based, but
8:39
SPEAKER_00: but on a global basis.
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SPEAKER_00: We work with brands and we have marketing and branding capabilities and we have
8:45
SPEAKER_00: digital brands that we've created.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And this is a very new world that we're all living in.
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SPEAKER_00: Traditional entertainment, traditional distribution opportunities aren't what they used to be.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And so it's changing a lot.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: And so we are leaning very heavily into social channels,
9:04
SPEAKER_00: the TikToks and Instagrams of the world,
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SPEAKER_00: while also keeping one foot firmly planted in mainstream distribution.
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SPEAKER_00: So we're pitching concepts to Apple and Netflix,
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SPEAKER_00: which are streamers,
9:20
SPEAKER_00: but also to CBS and ABC and Discovery Channel and National Geographic,
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SPEAKER_00: which are more traditional broadcasters.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: So
9:28
SPEAKER_00: We're keeping our foot in all the various places where audiences are found these days.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: It sounds like you've got some work for hire,
9:40
SPEAKER_02: like a brand needs a video campaign of some kind,
9:44
SPEAKER_02: they can place it in a variety of outlets.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: And it also sounds like you're maybe developing programming to then sell to a streamer,
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SPEAKER_02: like a Netflix or an Apple TV Plus or whatever.
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SPEAKER_02: Is that kind of the general model?
9:58
SPEAKER_00: A traditional production company is just that, right?
10:01
SPEAKER_00: There's a development arm where we are developing concepts.
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SPEAKER_00: We're in constant contact with networks and agencies where we understand what the
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SPEAKER_00: needs are,
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SPEAKER_00: what they're looking for,
10:13
SPEAKER_00: what Netflix is looking for.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: It might be different than what Amazon is looking for,
10:18
SPEAKER_00: which might be different from what CBS is looking for.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And there's some crossover.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: But we can develop specifically to those needs.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: We are finding in today's marketplace that
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Brand-funded content, which is very different than branded content.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Branded content is where it could be a commercial,
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SPEAKER_00: it could be a piece of content where the brand is intricately woven into the piece,
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SPEAKER_00: whether it's a short film or an episode,
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SPEAKER_00: but they are all over it where you see that brand's logo.
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SPEAKER_00: Brand-funded content doesn't necessarily mean that.
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SPEAKER_00: It means that that brand, their logo isn't necessarily...
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SPEAKER_00: all over the content.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: It's an authentic piece of content.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: It's character-driven.
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SPEAKER_00: And then the buckshot is where that brand can talk about their initiatives and things that are aligned.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that my partner and I co-founded is called Rivers Are Life.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: And that is a platform that's dedicated to connecting people with rivers around the world.
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SPEAKER_00: Our goal is to inspire action to protect, preserve, and explore rivers.
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SPEAKER_00: rivers.
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SPEAKER_00: Our global river systems are under threat.
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SPEAKER_00: They are a unique ecosystem and vital to all life on the planet,
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SPEAKER_00: but I think they're undervalued and underrepresented.
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SPEAKER_00: So Rivers Are Life is there to be the storytellers on behalf of rivers and this
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SPEAKER_00: place of hope,
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SPEAKER_00: highlighting what we call river heroes.
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SPEAKER_00: These are people and organizations all over the world that are dedicated to solving
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SPEAKER_00: the problems facing our rivers.
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SPEAKER_00: We can do that because we partner with brands.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: We have corporate sponsorship.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: We have money that comes in the door, but we also collaborate with NGOs.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: We collaborate with education institutions.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: We have a partnership with LSU and their river studies program.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: It's a lift from all places, but we have brands that come in.
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SPEAKER_00: They believe in the mission of Rivers Are Alive,
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SPEAKER_00: but they aren't necessarily embedded in the films or the series.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: A little bit of what I'm hearing,
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Zach,
12:24
SPEAKER_02: is you've sort of been able to take your experience and skill set in developing
12:31
SPEAKER_02: compelling content and telling compelling stories.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: And now you're able to use that to advocate for causes that are passionate to you and your partners.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: I've never lost sight of that.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's probably one of the things that drew me to the type of content
12:49
SPEAKER_00: that I've been making all these years.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: which is adventure programming,
12:52
SPEAKER_00: survival programming,
12:53
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:53
SPEAKER_00: wildlife programming,
12:55
SPEAKER_00: because it keeps me connected.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: It keeps me out there adventuring and living in the places that I draw inspiration from.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And so to be able to take what I've learned in sort of mainstream entertainment and
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SPEAKER_00: apply it to conservation storytelling,
13:12
SPEAKER_00: which I believe is absolutely necessary if,
13:15
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:17
SPEAKER_00: as we move forward and in,
13:19
SPEAKER_00: in,
13:20
SPEAKER_00: in not only the new entertainment space,
13:21
SPEAKER_00: but as a community,
13:24
SPEAKER_00: as a global community,
13:26
SPEAKER_00: it's one of the best ways we can spread awareness about problems and solutions.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: I'd love to dig into that a little bit.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: What makes for a compelling story?
13:38
SPEAKER_02: When you're talking about an issue like conservation or protecting a river or
13:42
SPEAKER_02: whatever the issue is you're trying to draw people into,
13:47
SPEAKER_02: in your experience,
13:48
SPEAKER_02: what are the attributes of a piece of content that is particularly inspiring?
13:53
SPEAKER_02: And when I say inspiring, meaning that it converts the audience to action.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: For me, it all starts with authenticity.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: If the story or the characters aren't authentic,
14:06
SPEAKER_00: then the audience or the consumer or the brand or the organization isn't going to care.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: From there, as I said, characters, are they relatable?
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Is the audience sitting there watching saying,
14:21
SPEAKER_00: oh,
14:22
SPEAKER_00: if I were in that person's shoes,
14:24
SPEAKER_00: this is what I would do.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's a survival show or
14:28
SPEAKER_00: a piece for Rivers Are Life,
14:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
14:31
SPEAKER_00: you want your audience wondering how they could do something different or what
14:36
SPEAKER_00: would they do the same,
14:37
SPEAKER_00: right?
14:37
SPEAKER_00: So circumstance is another, you know, big, big piece, right?
14:40
SPEAKER_00: It provides context for the story.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: It tells, you know, it gives your audience the where, the when, the who, and why.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: So when people watch or they listen to something that invokes that emotion, they'll talk about it.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully they share it and that fuels the awareness, which in turn fuels action.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: We'll be back to my conversation with Zach Green after this short break.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: A New Angle is proudly presented by First Security Bank,
15:07
SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
15:08
SPEAKER_02: and the University of Montana College of Business.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: This show does not happen without these pillars of our community,
15:14
SPEAKER_02: and I'm so grateful for their support and encouragement.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: And speaking of support, have you checked out our new website yet, anewanglepodcast.com?
15:23
SPEAKER_02: There you can support our show directly with a variety of subscription options.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: Subscribers get access to bonus episodes, additional segments, writings, and other benefits.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: So check it out at anewanglepodcast.com.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: This is Mike Morelli, Executive Director at MCT, and you are listening to A New Angle.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to A New Angle.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm speaking with Zach Green about the power of film to motivate action.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: What enables a piece of content to break through?
15:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
15:52
SPEAKER_02: there's the algorithm side and all of that,
15:55
SPEAKER_02: but I'm just talking about whether it's getting to the emotion as quickly as
15:59
SPEAKER_02: possible or whatever it is.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
16:02
SPEAKER_02: you mentioned some of the attributes,
16:04
SPEAKER_02: the characters and the circumstance and whatnot,
16:06
SPEAKER_02: but what really draws people in and changes hearts and minds?
16:12
SPEAKER_00: I've worked on projects that I thought people were going to absolutely love and it
16:16
SPEAKER_00: was going to be a home run and they were turned out to be a flop.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And I've worked on projects that I thought there's no way we're going to bring in an audience.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: And they became, you know, multi-season hits, you know, in international hits.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes there's no accounting for what will resonate.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: To your point,
16:35
SPEAKER_00: there's lots of statistics,
16:36
SPEAKER_00: there's lots of algorithms,
16:37
SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of data that can help shape,
16:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:42
SPEAKER_00: where to go and what stories to tell.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: The hook is the character, the where, the when, the how.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: And I think that getting back to that question,
16:54
SPEAKER_00: the audience,
16:55
SPEAKER_00: that curiosity,
16:57
SPEAKER_00: keeping people interested,
16:59
SPEAKER_00: especially today where content,
17:02
SPEAKER_00: if somebody's not interested,
17:03
SPEAKER_00: they can click off of it and find something new in a heartbeat.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: But if we can keep people curious, and that's that gap,
17:12
SPEAKER_00: between what we know and what we want to know.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the secret sauce, right?
17:17
SPEAKER_00: So citing something interesting,
17:20
SPEAKER_00: an interesting statement,
17:22
SPEAKER_00: sentence,
17:23
SPEAKER_00: statistic that draws the audience in to say,
17:26
SPEAKER_00: oh,
17:26
SPEAKER_00: I want to learn more.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: And so keeping that audience interested that way.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: So again,
17:31
SPEAKER_00: keeping on the river theme,
17:33
SPEAKER_00: as an interesting statistic,
17:35
SPEAKER_00: 90% of the human population lives within walking distance of a river.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: They impact all of us.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: If you took every ounce of river water and stream and creek on the planet and
17:46
SPEAKER_00: gathered it all up in one place,
17:48
SPEAKER_00: it'd be less water than is in Lake Victoria right now.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: That's how little fresh water,
17:54
SPEAKER_00: you know,
17:54
SPEAKER_00: that doesn't include lakes,
17:55
SPEAKER_00: that's just rivers,
17:55
SPEAKER_00: but it's not much more when you do include lakes.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: So the point is, you talk about in those terms, you talk about conflict and conflict resolution.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And those are,
18:05
SPEAKER_00: you know,
18:05
SPEAKER_00: core elements in telling a compelling story and having it resonate and rise above
18:12
SPEAKER_00: the noise,
18:12
SPEAKER_00: because there's a lot of noise out there when it comes to content.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: you mentioned the objectives of the organization and it's one that can be,
18:22
SPEAKER_02: you know,
18:23
SPEAKER_02: supported by brands.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: How are you making choices about your partners in a venture like this?
18:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it seems you've described it as values driven.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: How do you ensure that, you know, your sponsors are aligned with your values?
18:41
SPEAKER_00: For me, for us, I think that, you know, if you've,
18:45
SPEAKER_00: If you've got a company that is authentically wanting to have a positive impact on
18:54
SPEAKER_00: the natural environment,
18:55
SPEAKER_00: then we want to work with you.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: I sort of take the Jane Goodall approach.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: And if you look at her stance on working with the oil companies in the Congo in the 80s,
19:07
SPEAKER_00: she took a lot of grief.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: for doing that.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: We kind of take a similar approach.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: She pointed out that we would be somewhat hypocritical if she didn't work with them.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: She drives in cars and flies in airplanes and uses products made from petroleum.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: And the vast majority of us
19:27
SPEAKER_00: do use products like that every day.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: We go to hospitals, we eat food, we fly on planes, we drive cars, use computers.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: All these components are derived from practices that are harmful to the planet,
19:37
SPEAKER_00: yet are vital to our way of life.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that to solve these problems that are facing the world, it takes a lift from all these sectors.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the core of the work, the collaboration.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: We need input from NGOs.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: We need government buy-in.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: For policy change, we need industry buy-in.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: We need
19:57
SPEAKER_00: storytellers to help put this in a way that's digestible.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: I think that at the end of the day,
20:05
SPEAKER_00: even if a company has negatively impacted ecosystems in the past and yet they're
20:10
SPEAKER_00: authentically and genuinely interested in investing in solutions,
20:15
SPEAKER_00: then we should work with them.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think there's a question of scale in there as well.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: Like some of these large corporations that you're alluding to,
20:23
SPEAKER_02: even if they try to make small changes in their business practices,
20:28
SPEAKER_02: those can have huge impacts,
20:31
SPEAKER_02: much more impact than,
20:32
SPEAKER_02: say,
20:33
SPEAKER_02: if an entire small organization orients itself towards some environmental cause.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: If the likes of a Dow Chemical makes a small change,
20:40
SPEAKER_02: it can have huge impact in a variety of places around the world.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: you bring them up, they're one of our founding partners.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they are genuinely interested.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: And I will be the first to admit, I was skeptical.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And I have since learned,
20:59
SPEAKER_00: I've had conversations with their CEO,
21:02
SPEAKER_00: Jim Fitterling,
21:04
SPEAKER_00: all the way down through his team.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Their missions on sustainability and inclusivity are
21:13
SPEAKER_00: astounding.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: They're doing amazing work.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think they're doing a lot of work that is behind the scenes that people aren't even aware of.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the key right there,
21:24
SPEAKER_00: is they believe that they need to do right,
21:27
SPEAKER_00: even if nobody's looking.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And they recognize their part in history.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Even with a bad past,
21:35
SPEAKER_00: I think companies,
21:37
SPEAKER_00: not only do they have the responsibility,
21:39
SPEAKER_00: they should have the desire to do good.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
21:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
21:43
SPEAKER_02: I think it's interesting how sometimes the standards that we sort of try to apply
21:49
SPEAKER_02: to large corporations,
21:50
SPEAKER_02: we find hard to apply to ourselves.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying this to defend large corporations.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm just trying to sort of make sense of the space that you're operating in.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
22:00
SPEAKER_02: as you said a few moments ago,
22:01
SPEAKER_02: like we all participate in an economy that relies a lot on fossil fuels,
22:07
SPEAKER_02: for example,
22:08
SPEAKER_02: to survive.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: do the things that we're accustomed to.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: Now, certainly as individuals, we can step out of that system.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: It takes some extreme effort in the case of fossil fuels,
22:19
SPEAKER_02: for example,
22:20
SPEAKER_02: for the average citizen to do that.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: But as consumers and citizens,
22:24
SPEAKER_02: we're trying to navigate these conflicts and hypocrisy in some ways that we live
22:30
SPEAKER_02: with on a
22:38
SPEAKER_02: I would assume we need to at least have an understanding that they're trying to
22:43
SPEAKER_02: grapple with some of that hypocrisy too,
22:45
SPEAKER_02: I would imagine.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And I think as an individual, we can sometimes get frozen into inaction.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: The smallest change can have a great impact.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: For instance, if
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Everybody on the planet decided to eat one day a week without meat.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Or they decided to ride their bike to and from work one day a week.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Stop running the faucet when they brush their teeth.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Recycle more.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Small, everyday moments matter.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: These stories that we're telling are inspirational in that way.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's a kid like Cash Daniels, who's a teenager who started an organization when he was 17
23:29
SPEAKER_00: just because he saw waste in his local river and decided he was just going to do something about it.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Or if it's an organization like Living Lands and Waters,
23:40
SPEAKER_00: which is 25 plus year old organization on the Mississippi,
23:45
SPEAKER_00: and they have a lot of backing,
23:46
SPEAKER_00: a lot of experience,
23:48
SPEAKER_00: and they're now working on a recycled plastics business to help support their work.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: It just shows that you can do something no matter who you are,
23:59
SPEAKER_00: where you live,
24:01
SPEAKER_00: where you come from,
24:02
SPEAKER_00: or what your circumstances are.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: So how do you view the role of science in all of this?
24:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean I'm situated within a research institution that does a lot of groundbreaking
24:14
SPEAKER_02: work on climate science,
24:16
SPEAKER_02: for example.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: And one thing that frustrates a lot of climate scientists is that people – they're
24:23
SPEAKER_02: screaming and yelling about a crisis and the world doesn't seem –
24:27
SPEAKER_02: to be listening.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, we know that the information model of persuasion doesn't really work.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: Like the more science we feed people, um, doesn't seem to persuade them.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: How do you view the scientific community and how does the work that they do inform
24:42
SPEAKER_02: some of the content that you create?
24:45
SPEAKER_00: It's vital and they're right.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and it is frustrating.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Part of the problem is activation to, to have your audience, to have your community, to have your
24:57
SPEAKER_00: consumer base change their behavior.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think you do that by playing to their heartstrings, right?
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Those authentic stories and you make it memorable and you get this investment and
25:16
SPEAKER_00: you realize,
25:17
SPEAKER_00: oh,
25:17
SPEAKER_00: we are all in this together.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: It isn't just a problem on a different continent.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: This is a problem in our own backyard.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a problem for Africa.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a problem for North America.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: It's a problem for South America.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: It's a problem for Asia.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think we have to bring that level of awareness up in a way that people
25:39
SPEAKER_00: realize that it's not all doom and gloom,
25:40
SPEAKER_00: that there is some hope.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: And that by changing their behavior, by changing their daily habits, we can have a collective impact.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: All the while, the government needs to do their part.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: The scientific community needs to do their part.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Our education institutions need to do their part.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's where it comes back to that collaboration.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: We need that collaboration in order for it all to come into focus.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: So with something like Rivers for Life, how do you measure success?
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Ultimate success will be policy change.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's...
26:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a long way off.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: I think success is measured in a couple of different ways.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: I think we have sort of the boots on the ground level of success.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: So funding for an NGO or organization or hard goods, anything that helps further their mission.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Awareness and inspiration is a big part of it.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: I think getting an audience to feel something and then do something
26:45
SPEAKER_00: is success.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Creating funds inside of our organization that we can use for education purposes,
26:54
SPEAKER_00: for cleanup efforts,
26:56
SPEAKER_00: activations.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Those are the things that we ultimately want to drive towards.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Stories are the beginning.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Telling stories, identifying stories, bringing awareness to organizations that
27:12
SPEAKER_00: are flying under the radar yet doing amazing work.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: So spreading that as far and wide as we can is also a success.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Gaining an audience is a success because again, those things are interconnected.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Well,
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Zach,
27:26
SPEAKER_02: it's been great learning about not only your journey,
27:29
SPEAKER_02: but how you've sort of taken the skills that you developed and experiences you had
27:35
SPEAKER_02: across a variety of successful outlets and have directed that energy toward issues
27:41
SPEAKER_02: you're passionate about and your colleagues are passionate about.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: If folks want to learn more about Be Alive and Rivers for Life, where would you direct them?
27:49
SPEAKER_00: You can definitely go to riversourlife.com.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: You can find them there.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: And you can go to gobealive.com.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: You can find all things related to both organizations there.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, Zach, thanks so much.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: All the best and good luck with your work.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for having me.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening to A New Angle.
28:14
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28:16
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28:22
SPEAKER_02: A New Angle is recorded at Studio 49, a generous gift from UM alums Michelle and Lauren Hansen.
28:29
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28:31
SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
28:32
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28:35
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28:38
SPEAKER_02: Maddie Jordan is our production assistant.
28:40
SPEAKER_02: VTO Jeff Ament and John Wicks made our music.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: And Jeff Meese is our master of all things sound.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot and see you next time.