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Make Sales Great Again – The Forgotten Code in Financial Planning · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest on the financial planner live podcast is Paul McCobery from NavigateIFA.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: We go deep into his career background and we talk about the power of sales.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why is sales such a dirty word in financial planning these days?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's bring sales back again.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's a firm advocate of why financial advisors, mortgage advisors really do need to focus on their sales strategy when it comes to winning new business.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about transitioning from mortgaging protection into financial planning.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: What are the good things about that?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: But what are some of the stumbling blocks that actually stop people from doing that?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Things like earning more money as a mortgage advisor, believe it or not.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, also we talk about social media.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's really honest about his journey with social media.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's at the very beginning.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's thinking, should I do it?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Shouldn't I do it?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I help him make a decision.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you love the episode.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Sam.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the opportunity.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, listen, I think I don't think I've ever had somebody from Ireland on the podcast.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm good to be the first then.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: There we go, exactly.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic stuff.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: But listen, thank you so much for joining me today, like I said on the podcast.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a careers-based podcast.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: You yourself have had a decent career within financial planning.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: You've gone through all the different sort of channels and routes in, and now you're running your own financial planning business.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that to me is really, really exciting.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So interested in people that run their own businesses.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's so much that's gone on to get to that point.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's so many paths that you've taken, troubles, problems, ups, downs, you know, it doesn't just go like that, does it?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: In some fluid motion all the way to the top.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: It could be quite difficult.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So today we're going to learn a little bit about your experience, the ups, the downs, the pros, the cons, and some of the advice that you might give to some people who are thinking about getting into the profession or who might be in the profession right now, thinking about taking the route that you've done.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant, yes.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say what, let's start from the start.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start from the start.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get into the financial planning profession?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like many people, I think, in financial services, I fell into it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I left school in Belfast, and our school had an association with an uh quite a well-known state agent in Belfast, and they took on an office junior, ferry junior at that stage.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't want to go to university.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was very much, I wanted to go and find a career and just get work, and I would have wasted university would have been a waste enjoying myself.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the funny story is that within that estate agent, I've I got to know what I thought was a mortgage advisor.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: It turns out he was a fool, the financial advisor doing mortgages.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: A guy, Brian.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Brian used to come in at 10 and leave at three.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And in my early days, I used to and he had to have a nice suit and a nice car.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I used to think that Brian does okay.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Only later on did I realize Brian was going home at three to do the school run, to do the homeworks, and then go back out and do his calls at night.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I just Brian talked me through how do you get into this?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, just do your FPCs one, two, that's how old I am.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: One, two, and three, and you work from there.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my main decision.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I wanted to go.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: I then was able to get into an estate agency with a financial services arm to it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I started doing my FPC one, FPC two, and I just worked my way.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the next job after that was then where I went into Prudential.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: And Prudential was really where I really understood financial services.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was only 20 years of age, and it was a fantastic.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you um if you remember back to the time, Sam, where they took the man from the the man from the Prue off the street and the and and the co-op, you know, uh, they took them off the street, and we then there's a sorry Sam, there's an internet.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is that it's okay.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: So our internet's been funny today.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's just got a wee signal there.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, the man from the PRU was taken off the street, and we were then uh came in as a sales team in order to contact prudential clients with maturing endowments, and our sales pitch was to get them to reinvest their maturity into the the the PRU bond.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that was really where my financial career for the first you know really took off.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I did, it was a great sales environment.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: We were all young and hungry, work hard, play hard.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you had done an exam, I'd have done an exam, and that's where it ended.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up getting a full FPC three, and then I got a job in a bank as a trainee financial advisor.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's stop there then, because a little bit to digest there.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you left the um you left the estate agency, you went and worked for prudential.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this was pre-RDR, I assume, yeah?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, 2000, uh, 2000.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like 2000, yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So quite a little bit further back now.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally get it.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, bank like the bank assurance world, right?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say that product product providers, bank assurance.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was I think over a hundred thousand, I think it was nearly nearly 200,000 financial planners or financial advisors, we can call them financial advisors, that are out there, you know, giving advice, whether it's a product provider, where it's where it's for the banks.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very competitive, wasn't it?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I used to I used to recruit for those positions.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: We were one of the top recruiters for credential at one point.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Nat West and you know, Barclays, all these different uh organizations having those financial advisors.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was all league tables, it was very competitive.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll tell you one thing the training was superb.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about that because sales training in financial planning now seems to be a dirty word.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think bring sales back to financial planning.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit about the experience that you gained, the training you got around sales, and why today do you think it's so so important for those financial planners coming through?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's two points in that, Sam, is going back to the man from the PRU or the co-op man.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: They were great salespeople.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: They I remember them in my granny and grandda's house coming on a Friday, having a cup of tea.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, I did my first ever, I think,£10 a month type small endowment 10-year plan.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: They got there, that was the that was the end of the savings culture in in the UK when those guys were taken off the street because no one was selling those products.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um obviously regulation and all then just came and and and things.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I think first and foremost, those were the guys that had great trust within families, and that's something that I took on in the job is the that trust is so important.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: When you then talk about sales training, prudential was the best, was it was just a m a great place.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: I can't say about the young work hard play art attitude, it's so competitive, but in a great way.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And Prudential taught us.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if you think about customers had their maturing endowments, we have to phone them.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's typically between six o'clock and nine o'clock at night.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Prudential taught us that in order to hit your targets, they had worked it out that you had to make 50 dials.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now, back then it was a proper dial, uh not quite the round and round circles, but it was a proper diet.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: You had to make 50 dials and you would get talking to 20 in average.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if you get talking to 20 in average, 10 would take an information pack and one sale would come out of that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that was your ratios, and that's what you just worked at every single day was hit your 50 dives.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if you we did work hard play hard, so some days maybe not as productive, but you know across that week that you needed to hit those 250 dives for that to wash down in order to hit a seal a day, 20 seals a day.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: And back then that took you into really generous bonus territory.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Again, another seems to be word we're not about to say in our industry.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And what that taught me was, and I still use it to this day, what can I control?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: How many phone calls am I making a day?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: How many professional connections am I meeting a week?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can make sure that I'm consistent in that approach, the rest tends to sort itself out because you can't really control.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So Prudential taught me that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And as you say, moving on to the bank thing, and you said about the training, I had 12 weeks in a hotel put up for training.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was again good crack.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I could do a role play with you now, which explains the ID Day or the presentation they did about holistic planning.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was that drilled in this you you don't get that trade.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I feel incredibly lucky and grateful that that that was the training, that was the foundation, and I still use many of the skills today.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what I was going to ask you.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: What you learn in those days, do you think that's fundamental to the success that you've now you're now experiencing at this stage of your life?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think consistency is the key, isn't it, when it comes to finances, learning, training, going to the gym.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, that's what that taught me.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And as I say, when I talk to my advisors now, what can we control?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: We can only control how many people we speak to, as in calling out, speaking to your clients, making sure you're doing your annual contacts, and how many professional connections do we have and that we're having proper meetings with them.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: The rest of it is a bit out of our control.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if you focus on those, that typically I find the rest looks after itself.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let me talk about it's a really interesting area.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm absolutely with you.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm I've been running a recruitment company for 15 years.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 42 years old.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I remember one of my very first jobs when I left school was selling windows for stay bright windows.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I get given like a pad of paper, like literally like the yellow pages, and you had to go through and like scribble it off and then make a phone call.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to sell windows to people.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I knocked on people's doors.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So one of my jobs was like like selling charities.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I wasn't a naturally academic person.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was willing to go out and knock on people's door to learn a trade, to learn how to communicate with people, to learn how to sell.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that back then was numbers game.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was always just drilled into you.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Look, you know, learn your products, understand how to ask the right questions.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So open questions and all those typical types of things, OSPs, unique selling points, features and benefits, all those typical real basic sales um techniques.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: It could be mirroring somebody, you know, the power of open and closed questions.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I took that from that basic form where I had to knock, I had to knock 100 doors a day in the range, you know what I mean?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: If I did 100 doors in a day, I should earn 100 pounds.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was self-employed, you know, it was 10 pounds the door.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let alone if I ended up knocking on the door and I got them to sign up to three things, it could be 30 quid.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned about cross-selling as well, cross-selling and upselling and all that typical type of stuff.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was such a powerful ground for me to build resilience and also the numbers game.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: What you put in, you get out at the end of it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, where you work for the banks, where you work for those product providers and they put you through those training processes, is you don't get that today as a financial advisor.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get that going into a smaller financial planning practice.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're kind of going down the admin power planner route to then become a financial planner.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're massively missing that in-depth sales training, that that thing that builds resilience.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I put a post out quite recently and I said, Who here has confidence in their business development and who doesn't?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: 48% of people said, No, I need help.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: 26% of people said I'm highly confident in this.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone else was kind of kind of confident or whatnot.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that tells me that nearly 50% of the people, now I know who voted.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I can look at all the people that have voted, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see that they've been doing the role for quite some time, but they don't have confidence in their ability to generate business.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just talk about that right now.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think are some of the things that a financial planner who might be struggling right now?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: They've got the qualifications, perhaps they've even got competent advisor status, but they're not hitting their goals of building professional relationships or new client inquiries.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: What can they do right now?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: What do you what do you think they should do?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I feel old because this would have been my tactic maybe 15 years ago.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for to me, at first, we've all got mobile phones now and we've all got lots of numbers on the mobile phone.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Most of your friends are willing to help you.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it's about contacting them, explaining them that you're in you're in a new role, and that you need to go and maybe conduct some fact finding.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you're obviously looking for friends who potentially maybe have mortgages, life insurance, maybe starting a savings plan.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can narrow it down pretty well now.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: That would be always be my first board of contact.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Get them on board.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are they aware of what you're doing?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Are they aware that they that you need help?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, in my career, when I ask and I say, Look, I need help, people will want to help you.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: When I think about building the network, the best thing that I was involved in was BI.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: So B and I, for those who don't know, is a global networking group that meets once a week.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: You're only allowed one of each profession in it, and the whole idea is that you only get referrals.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was in it for nine years and I only left because Navigate became a bigger company, and my role wasn't so much about getting new clients, it was about managing the business, etc.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: But two of my advisors have been in it, one is still in it to this day.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: But B and I just grew your network because it taught you how to talk about your business in 60 seconds, an elevator pitch.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: It taught you how to introduce you to solicitors, accountants, the key people of influence, build relationships, get them to help you, you help them, and that grew.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And over nine years, Sam, I did fantastic business.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Even this day, I get business of that because now where my friends would always, for a laugh, say, I know everybody if I need someone for this, some of that.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I came from just building that network.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And funny, since I left, which is maybe five years ago, I do feel the network has shrunk.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but to me, that's another to have a look at BI.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Only one of any profession can join a BI chapter, so that might make it difficult.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Mortgages, IFAs are well taken because you think it's a people, people trust referral.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: But there's other networking groups, just get your I used to have a little saying, and it's got you just never know.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'd went to an opening of an envelope.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: You just never know who you might meet.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: This the unfortunate thing is you get busier, more successful, all those we think you don't have time for them, but they are the they are the foundation.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: So get out, contact everyone you know, tell them what you're doing, give them your number, get their email address, send a monthly newsletter, ask them can you come and do a fact find, then work on how do I get myself out there.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're more of an expert than me when it comes then to the social media side, and I do feel like a dinosaur when it comes to that side of things.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: But from a very basic view, that's what I would be doing.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is though, you say you feel like a dinosaur, right?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the area where you're an expert in is the area now where people are struggling.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they do a lot.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: What you tend to find is that people are putting, they're doubling down and putting energy and effort into social media, but they're not doing it right on the social media side.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not getting that quick return, or they're spending their time on social media observing and watching others, but not doing anything themselves.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of almost watchers, but also as well, they're not even using social media as a tool to network.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn is networking on steroids, right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: You would have you would have gone through to a BI uh meeting, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: You go into B and I meeting face to face, you can't beat it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can't beat, you know, you can't beat a better, you know, face-to-face relationship.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's completely different from the telephone, right?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Completely different, even completely different from the video chat that we're having now, which is still pretty damn good.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is, when you go onto somewhere like LinkedIn, if you're not actively searching out the people that you want to talk to, if you're not actively reaching out to them with something of substance, if you're not reaching out to them to get them booked in for a video call or for a face-to-face meeting where you can talk about your services, how you can support each other, then you're losing, you're missing out.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what B and I has taught you, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes back also to the fact that it's a numbers game.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: That that's a point.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think also yes, I think also, Sam, you're talking about the Zoom calls, etc.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I've find since COVID and the younger advisors in here they're still too top heavy in Zoom compared to face-to-face.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: I would even say to them that you should be, especially in the mortgage and protection, or you're starting the saving plan, the first saving plan, get out to their house, get the information, get the job done there and then make it as easy as possible for them, and then make them a client and move on.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's a way bit of that has got lost since we've gone to the Zoom generation.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I going from like so everything used to be every for me, everything used to be like phone-based.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So phone, phone as many people as you can, because you can speak to more people, right?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Speak to more people again, it's a numbers game.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Then you go into Zoom and that changed it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: It changed it.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I built I built deeper relationships because I can't, because you know when you have a phone call, all you can do is hear somebody, you can't see somebody, you can't see the whites of their eyes, you can't connect with them, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there's something that Zoom lacks, which is that almost energy con energy connection.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you and I were sitting down next to each other right now, there would be a different energy.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're present in the same room together.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very different feeling.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh if you put that in in order, phone to video to face-to-face, face-to-face is always a deeper connection.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: She she's gonna hand that.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's always a the physical is always a much deeper connection.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're building out your plan of how do I get out and see people, well, yeah, build in how many phone calls you want to make, build in how many Zoom calls you want to make, but also build in how many face-to-face can I do.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I bet you some of the best clients that you know and the best clients that refer to you, whether they're introducers or existing clients passing you through, I bet you've met them all, wouldn't you?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: You've had coffees with them, you've had beers with them, maybe.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to, to me, you have to meet like each other in order for that to go to the next level.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, going out for a beer, bite the eight is always the best way.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And also they've got to understand what you do in our financial planning world.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, many accountants that I know don't understand what we do, they still think all we do is sell funds.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when actually you need so I often say to my ones, my advisors, go and do a financial plan for them.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Just it'll cost you an hour of your time, just do a plan, show them how the cash flow software works.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Then I bet you they'll get bought in because it's very unlikely that their existing advisor or what they've done before has ever talked to them about this, especially accountants, because they understand the numbers and no one's ever talked about how much they need.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really great sales technique.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great way to build a relationship really quickly, is to actually give a financial plan to the introducer.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of your head that you're transact, it's transactional.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of your head, I'm gonna make a phone call, and all of a sudden they're gonna start passing me business.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you actually sit down with them for an hour and deliver the financial plan, which let's face it, is the sexy part of financial advice, isn't it?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's the part that actually creates an emotional connection because someone then has to think about themselves.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: They have to think about their future, their family future.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have enough money?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So all of a sudden they're confronting those feelings, those emotions, those beliefs.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you then guide them down a pathway, dependent upon how brilliant your financial plan uh process actually is, really, you should be taking on an emotional journey.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So as they're going on that emotional journey, obviously a byproduct of that is they're building a connection with you.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if they're feeling positive about the experience they're having with you, you're sure as shit they're going to be positive about putting you in front of their clients, right?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And previous experience will be the old school salesperson.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you show them that it's done differently, they'll get their eyes open.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: But as you say, if you can just tune into the family, the emotional attachment.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think also just thinking while you're talking, Sam, for a new advisor starting out.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they don't want to do mortgages because they're pathways into the financial planning side, but never forget the importance of protection.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was taught that years ago we worked our mortgage and protection business as part of the Primus Network, and they have a 501 club.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole idea is get into 501 pounds of premium a month, get into that club.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: They send league tables every day.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: It might be seen as old school uh sales tactics, but C for driven advisors, it works.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're looking to build your AUM and your ongoing fees is very difficult, it is a long-term process.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can hit 300, 400, 500, 501 and protection a month, that's a really good income, which then builds the income, allows you a bit of time in order to plant seeds in order to find what I would call my ideally client.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to explore that a little bit further, but it's a great opportunity for me to plug um the Just Covered podcast, actually.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the Just Covered Podcast is legal in general for advisors podcast, hosted by Hazel and Wayne.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And here at the Financial Planner Life Studios, we we do all the production for that podcast.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone's actually listening and wants to learn more about how to position protection advice in your process, how to connect with customers and clients in a different way.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the importance really of protection, I mean, it's such an important part of the financial planning process, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is to listen to that podcast.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's peer-to-peer learning and it's experts like yourself.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm going to mention to Hazel.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should go on there actually, because I bet you've got lots of really good advice to give.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's a great way to work out how to position protection.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, listeners, check it out, the just covered, just covered podcast.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what, let's go back to this because you made a pretty good point there.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Building assets under management doesn't happen overnight.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's very few financial planners that I know that have just started out that all of a sudden have five million, ten million under management.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: They usually take a couple of years to get going, and then it starts to trickle in, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: It starts to come on in through the relationships they build, the confidence, how they deliver their financial plans.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: But a quick way To make money, a quick way to build client relationships is a simple process of selling protection.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Selling protection being the important word.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Sell selling the protection, and then you can work on you can work then.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't worry about AEM.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Quite often you can ask how much your business AEM do you have.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: I go on ongoing fees because we have a lot of younger, gonna say younger, let's take a 40-year-old business owner, don't have 100 grand they invest today, but they have a thousand pounds a month.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot of them now paying us.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: We have over 2,000 pounds a month that comes in and go cardless from that type of client.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so by doing the and a lot of them will have done protection along the way.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: So they become a really good client because you've got the commission, you get them sorted with the foundational stuff.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got a mortgage, if you're a mortgage advisor and mortgage contact, you get the mortgage into the fixed deal and you've got that, then you're just working your way up, aren't you?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So if you think of uh I was taught from a very, very good old school sales guy about you know, as many products can you have a client with?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you think in our business, there's lots.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: So Santander, I forget Santander's target is to have every customer having something like 11 products.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: So from the current account, the savings account to the credit card to the mortgage, because once they're in, they're in, it's very hard for them to move.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you think about it like that, by doing your protection, writing it in the trust, maybe then contacting the trustees if you want to really push on.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh offering a free will, we offer all our mortgage protection clients a free will using free uh a will we pay for software from a company, but we offer it out for free.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a great way of getting that foundational stuff then.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Start doing the savings plans and you can start potentially.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you might not get a fee in day one, but maybe three years down the line, they move into proper planning, they trust you, they're you're worth every penny, they'll pay you then what you what you're worth.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden you're starting to build it up, and there's lots of opportunity out there.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: That the advice gap has created that.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's some really good advice.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think do you know what?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've not done this before, but are you able just to break down the difference between commission and um ongoing fees from assets under management?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think people often get confused.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And commission again is a word in financial planning that doesn't get used that often, but you do get commission still in financial in financial advice.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just break that down just to differentiate between the two?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so within Navigate, we have two businesses.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: We have our mortgage and protection arm and we have our financial planning arm.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Typically, most of our protection will be done in the mortgage and protection business.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Reason for that is that the guys that work in there are protection specialists.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: I can't to keep up with the critical illness plans, the income protection uh plan, it's just it's a specialism I feel in as Excel.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if I have a client who who needs protection, I will bring one of the protection guys in to help them.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: But for protection, you can either get paid by commission from the provider or you could charge a fee and take the commission off.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: If paid by commission, the customer will be paying for it over the over over the plan.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh on the financial planning side, it's a full straight flat fee, professional service fee that's agreed up front, and we have that laid out in our uh initial disclosure documents, et cetera, et cetera.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Commission has become a bit of a bad word.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, some people don't even do it because they feel that they're the client is paying for it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: But if you give the client the opportunity, you know, we give the client the option, the fee versus the commission, the majority are going to take the are going to take the commission.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, you if you're doing it right, you're doing a proper job, you're protecting lives.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm at an age now, I'm 43.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I have had double figures of claims.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: My last five out of my last six claims, Sam, have come from age 28 to 38.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: So those clients could not have afforded my fee to cover my time when I set up those mortgage protection policies.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: They paid the commission and unfortunately they're needed.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: But between 28 and 38, like one was a death, or scary.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I did some claims videos with legal in general, and uh it was so powerful listening to the stories where people had taken out protection and used it.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Claimed it but stayed stayed alive.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was so powerful that I already had some already had some life cover in place, but Tristan, who's my videographer, went out and bought absolutely everything to cover himself because it was so powerful.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: When you listen to those claim stories and you realise just how important uh protection actually is and why so many financial planners don't really do it, don't really they don't really push it because they're looking for that assets under management element.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's such a it's such a key area to develop business.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I liked as well is what you said about the trustee side of it.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: So when you write things into wills and things, and you can reach out to people like trustees, beneficiaries, there are opportunities there for you to actually start to network through the different connections that they put down on those forms.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, very, very, very powerful stuff.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for explaining that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I really I really appreciate that because I think when people get into becoming a financial advisor, a financial planner, you know, you don't need all your level four qualifications to even to be able to sell um life protection.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can just go out and be standalone life protection.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need every single qualification.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be level four qualified at caste status.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: You part of your process to being an advisor could be cut your teeth in protection, do some protection, do some mortgage.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I got let's just talk about that.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Mortgage protection to financial planning.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's a really good route?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's to me is the idea.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: The problem that we have, and you will know this better than me, is how do you make that leap?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, to give me an example, so for me, as you say, people look down your nose a wee bit of mortgage and protection.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: No better place to learn your craft to talk to many people a week.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, our mortgage guys target 20 meetings a week in order to get a sale a day of mortgage and protection.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh best place to build a network, because the more mortgages you do, I still get calls.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to be a financial advisor, that's going to be your first call when you're signed off as CAS to go and do their savings plan, get the pension set up.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I just think it's a great way of learning.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: But here's the problem, and I have this at this minute in time with one of our top advisors.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Mortgage advisor probably earning 70, 80 grand a year.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: In order to become a financial, he's got all of qualifications.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: In order to become a financial planner, he is probably going to have to take quite a significant pay cut because he's going to have to move into possibly client manager, admin, or maybe power planner, but he doesn't have the technical skills to even be a junior power planner.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he and I are trying to work that out at the minute.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, one of the one of the ways of trying to do that is for him to have a junior mortgage advisor under him so he can get the mortgage that mortgage advisor to do the mortgages.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: He continues to do his protection and he then transitions across within within the the the financial planning business.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: But it's difficult.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, to me, that's where you learn the basics.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So interestingly, a couple of things I've picking up on there.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: One being it's like they, yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know mortgage advisors that are earning£200,000 a year, right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So being, you know, they're thinking, oh, I can go be a financial planner.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, not many financial planners I come across that actually earn£200,000 plus, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's not common to earn£200,000 plus in financial planning.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: In question, unless you run your own business and doing it doing it for quite some time, right?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just get that fact straight as well, I think.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, but there is opportunity in mortgage advice to earn and protection to earn quite considerable money.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting that you said that mortgage advice then across into financial planning, that really that person should start in more of a junior like administrative power planning position.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't they just transition from mortgage advice straight into full financial planning if they've got the training around delivering financial plans?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's a as you say it, you're making me think it's a it's a fair point.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I think it's because the financial planning side and understanding the products, take pensions, for example?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Starting at the bottom to understand the nuances that come with the pensions, to work on your way up doing a financial report to then doing the planning side takes experience and knowledge.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Could this person, this person will be good, salesperson, will be a good advisor, they've got the right ethics and morals.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Could they go in and deliver the financial plan and then rely on our technical team behind them?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Potentially.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: But they would need to be in some way covering that cost.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And how do they do that?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if you think on a on a£50 protection poll, this guy writes close to£500 a month premium.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: So if you take how much that is in income, that's a lot of financial planning clients to try and acquire.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it it just becomes difficult.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think in a business like ours where we have both, we can make it work, but there's going to be an element of sacrifice in in the in your pocket.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that is another bit I wanted to look at here is the fact that you've got two.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting as a case study having you on the phone because to me it's like and we're kind of you know we're spitballing here, really, because why can't that person go from mortgage to full financial planning?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't a reason why they should go down the admin power planner roo.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there has to be a justification to use that part of the business to make it affordable.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if they're a really good mortgage advisor and they're really good at selling and they're really good at going out and winning business, then the likelihood is they're probably going to be really, really good at going out and winning financial planning clients.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: They could even tap into the clients that they built underneath the mortgage side.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you already, as a financial and planning business, IFA business, had that business referred to you?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, uh typically they'll have come to the mortgage, the mortgage first, and they haven't been the issue that we have in our financial planning business is that the four advisors now are looking for minimum fee, you know,£1,500 a year at least, or£150,000 a UAM would be what uh our youngest advisor is looking at because he's building, he's in the 18 months.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're not interested in the 200, 300, 500 transactional savings plan.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe listening to you and just thinking about it quickly, that doesn't mean that that person can't do that.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: We just need to think about the ongoing service, and that's how I started by selling a five, you know, set you up and I said 500 pounds a month and it was a half a percent.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: But what happened in the last few years is I've had to go back and turn a lot of that off because the annual review process is far too arduous, and also they weren't in the full plan and it wasn't the ID's plan.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: But there's no reason to get started, but you have to sell a lot of savings plans to make up a 50 pounds life insurance.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I suppose.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the other way you look at it is is if, say, for example, it's a business as an IFA business, you have a number of financial planners that have built client relations up to the point where they can then be passed on to somebody else.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's a shadow advisor, but that's let's talk about that.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like I like what you say the word shadow advisor.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't you elaborate on what you mean by that and how you've and what you've done around having a shadow advisor in your business?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: I have been I'm in year two out of three on Brett Davidson's course.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you know Brett, no.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: So Brett runs a course called Uncover Your Business Potential.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's for financial advice business owners and their team to take your business to the next level.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And his argument or his business plan is that I am best suited to be out getting new clients.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Find a client and then have a shadow advisor who you've trained from whatever level up.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I've done this from with Matt in our office, who's gone from power.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: He started off with Capital, learned a lot about pensions, which put him in a really great place.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Came to me as a power planner, and then now he worked his way up.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Matt just shadowed me.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: So Adam met you, say at a network of meeting.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Come on in, Sam will have a meeting, introduce you to Matt.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Matt then learned the ropes, how do we do it, worked his way up, and now he shadows me in that he okay, Sam, come in and see me.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I'm always busy, I'm always out and about, but Matt will be the one who will provide the advice and arrange everything for you.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: No one ever says anything.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: And now Matt is a fully fledged advisor, standing on his own two feet and covering his cost.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what he's worked for, certified financial planner, close to being chartered, 32 years of age.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the only way if you're going to grow to that next, if you're going to try and grow your business, and we're not looking like we have four advisors.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: One new client a month is if we find that one new client at a month at about 250 of AUM, that's sort of our bread and butter.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um if we that's our organic growth.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're wanting the younger generation to come through, because how am I getting out of this business?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm not, as it stands today, selling to a consolidator.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't do it to my clients.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think in my head, the younger generation are the ones that potentially could buy me out or at least allow me the flexibility and to earn an income and work work on.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the shadow advisors, the way to grow up, it just takes a while.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: So two to three years, right?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where probably the difficulty lies.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk back to what we were saying about mortgage advice being a really good option to go down, you learn some amazing skills in mortgage advice and protection, but your earnings go up, therefore, stepping across and even into a shadow advice role.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, having somebody come into the business who is a shadow advisor, doesn't have any clients, but they're level four qualified, great potential.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those those roles aren't out there in abundance, right?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: But they will be out there morto.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: That that that is gonna be kind of out there morto over the next say one, two, three, four, five years without a shadow of a doubt, right?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a pun in there, shadow of doubt.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But uh the thing is the thing with that is that you're not gonna earn 50 grand basic salary straight away.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: 60k basic salary straight away.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not gonna happen.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to put some groundwork in to get those numbers up.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you might take on some clients, learn some experience of client meetings, uh, take on some of the clients that are being passed down from the older advisors.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's a kind of almost a succession plan in place there also as well for the business, isn't it?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're gonna be building your AUM up.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And as you build your AUM up, that's where you're then going to start see your earnings go up.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because whilst you're building AUM up through internal referral, you're also building the confidence, excuse me, the confidence to go out and win your own clients if you're having the best training and the best development uh in place for you to go out and do that.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like a balancing act, isn't it?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it takes time and is the mat's gender in the year three.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's covering himself now, he's earning good, he's on a good remuneration package.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: But his challenge for this year is to bring in more of his own business.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I have set him the the challenge of getting out and finding networking groups.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there's a good example of finding he was able to uh contact a person I know who's very well connected.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And wouldn't you know that five minutes from us there's a group meet once a month for a walk around?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: This is called Storming Buildings, it's our part of my buildings in Belfast.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: They meet every Friday morning and they go for a walk around, but it's a structured networking meeting where they'll stop and someone will give their elevator pitch.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: And he's now making inroads and he's doing a podcast with one of the guys from that.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so that's where your network the shadow would the mortgage advisor moving across is a bit different because that mortgage advisor wants to get out selling because that's what they're used to doing.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: But the shadow, so Matt, we already have Jack in our office, who Jack is the the new Matt.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: So he's starting out now, he's one year in another practice.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: He's now started, he's our client manager and he'll be a client manager for let's say a year, then he'll move to para planner, and then hopefully, if Matt and I remain busy and can bring in enough clients, he will start to take off Matt.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing is I am going to be transferring over probably a third of my clients to Matt because I want Matt to be profitable, not just covering his costs.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: He needs to be profitable, and that's what Brett Davidson has taught me is he needs to be covering himself, his costs by at least by three times.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Has that put pressure upon you then as the business owner?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Has it put pressure upon you to then step up more so into things like business development and client development?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say pressure because that's the bit of love the most.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: As well as working with clients, so I'm not going to give them all my clients, but you know what it's like.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure some of you've been doing business, you can get bogged down in spreadsheets and planning and meetings, etc., etc.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: I miss the old days of just going networking and meeting people.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very much up to that.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Also trying to keep the professional connections and and just meeting them and doing things.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I put myself out to do public speaking and just trying.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is why I uh I came to you was to let people know more about navigating how we do things.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I don't feel pressure because when you work for yourself, I've been working for myself now for 17 years.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I still have that little bit of fear.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what if I don't get another client?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that we draw is always in.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what, you know, I'm I'm absolutely in that space at the moment.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: My my happy place, I had this conversation with my business partner today.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Sam, what you need is like what a financial planner needs.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: A good financial planner goes out and wins businesses.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: You need a really, really good power planner.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to restructure and reshuffle our business around a little bit.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where my business partner is actually like a really good power planner, and I'm a really good business developer.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love going out and having these, you know, I'm sitting here, I got a podcast, sitting to you, talking to you, and really discovering and digging deep on your business.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's great experience for me.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: It built great relationship.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not only that, but I put it out on the internet and people listen to it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: So then people then listen to it and then listen to the conversation.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that builds me more relationships and credibility and trust and uh a recognition within the profession.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So business development for me is like I enjoy it, you know, it's such a big, big part.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: But letting go of the and then but when I business developed, I always end up in a trail of things behind me that need to be done.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then I find those things really stressful.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you can bog yourself down in a spreadsheet.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can bog myself down in a database, into a sales process, into social media posting and uh YouTube uh research and all that kind of stuff.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do all that crap, I just want to do what I'm good at, which is talking to people, hire the right people to do the things that I don't want to do, but they're good at it, right?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's and that's the focus.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um love that.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love the fact that you're doing that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a point in your career where you didn't want to let go of anything?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, perhaps your very first hire to support you.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: How did that feel?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what did it do?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think anybody, self-employed, solo practitioner, whatever you're doing, you're I love the book The Emith.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Michael Gerber, and when you start a bit, most people just start a business, like when I without my own protection, I can sell protection, I can sell protection.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought about what that business will look in the future.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: So if you imagine when you start a business, if you and I were going into business now and we drew out a family tree, who's the MD?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because there has to be an MD, who's the finance director, who's the marketer, who's the accountant?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, our names would be in every single position.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: But if you start to think, well, okay, well, what does that look like in the future?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and what sorry, I lost my train of thought.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so when you every solo practitioner or someone working for themselves is earning good money, but you gotta take someone on.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know you've got to take someone on, but it's gonna cost you.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: And what if you don't have any more clients?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we all go through this, don't we?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: And when I took on my first hire, it was part-time, and I think from memory, I'm gonna tell you six months, it might have been less, but my turnover went up something like 50%, maybe even more, because I found a really good person, and that person came in and said, and they were quite experienced.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: They said, Paul, you don't need to be doing that, leave that with me, get you out and do it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I got lucky there because she was older and experienced.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I think when you you just have to take the leap of faith and do it.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when I make decisions now, I sit and I look, okay, well, if I'm going to take someone on, how much is that gonna cost me?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: And what's the worst case scenario?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if they don't work out in the first year, you can politely uh have them leave, shall we say?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: But what if it works?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: What is that opportunity that that's allowing you to go out and do?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to remember that it's time training them that will lead to the bigger.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm always thinking long term.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit like your financial planning, plant the seeds and think long term, not in the next month or two, it's going to take a while.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: And when I look back now, we have 13 staff that's gonna keep growing because we organically are growing the younger trainee advisor, and you just have to have the leap of faith.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I think my biggest learning was I took a younger guy on uh maybe seven, eight years ago, great guy.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: I met him through a client, says, Would you help this guy?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's trying to get into fan service.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Really like dress, he was just old before his time.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: He could tell, he could talk, and I thought this guy could go far.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I brought him in.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: I had no plans, and I even feel embarrassed with saying that now.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: I had no plan as to what to do.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: So he came in, he sat beside me.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Ended up he started getting on my nerves because he had nothing to do and he was then just talking.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: That was all my fault.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have what should he be working on when I'm busy, what's his milestones?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Where do I want him to be in this amount of time, etc.?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: That was a massive learning because I had to let him go with a heavy heart and he didn't.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: didn't take it well as you would expect.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's a leap of faith, but it needs to be backed up with a good plan and try to visualize what success looks like and what are those role jobs that you're going to give up.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Give up the easy ones, build up the trust, and then you can hand over the keys.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you've hit the nail on the head.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Look, everyone's done that who runs a business.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Take somebody on who walks through that halo effect.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: This guy's or girl's brilliant.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to be amazing for my business.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to walk in and just pick up the pick up the reins and off they go.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to make me money.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: It all comes down to learning development.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: It all comes down to creating a clear career structure for that person, creating key milestones that they have to achieve, specific goals within a specific period of time, a time scale attached to it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: I failed so many times.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I failed many people within my business by not putting those plans in place for them.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as you say, with a heavy heart, you let them go.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: I look back and I think, Jesus, I've let some good people go because I was shit at my job.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but but we learn from it.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the key things that any business can do, to, and this is coming from my recruitment hat, okay?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is that let's say, for example, you're sitting down in your in your in your first interview with a with a candidate that you're thinking, I really want that person in my business.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important that you can actually put a roadmap down in front of them at the very first interview stage.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you get the best person in front of you, and bear in mind at the moment, we're on a bit of a candidate shortage within the financial planning profession.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's tough.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: If someone's actively looking for a new job opportunity, the likelihood is they're probably three, four, five different companies.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they're all, you know, it's a beauty parade, and they're all, you know, there is a salary back, salary that goes up here and a salary that goes up there.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't any consistency at the moment.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's sort of fighting.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: But what people want to see is what does one year, two year, three year look like?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: What's my job role responsibilities?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: How quickly can I go through the process?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: You've built a mapping process of taking someone from a client manager, relationship manager by the sounds of it, into power planning, into financial advice.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you've built a roadmap.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Being able to sit down with someone, articulate that, but then to next to it put down everything that you actually do for that person to get them there and everything they need to do to get there.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: So how long does it take to do qualifications?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: How long does it take, you know, all those things, right?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: When you do that, and then you put a salary next to it that shows at year one you should be earning this, at year two, you should be earning this, this is how many what qualifications you should have here, this is what qualifications you should have there.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: When that person walks away, they should be blown away.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: They should be like, wow, like you know, it there's a clear career roadmap.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: And financial planning companies have struggled to build a clear career roadmap, therefore they don't attract the right talent, and they expect the talent to come in and just pick up the reins and get on with it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we see it lots and lots and lots in power planning.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Loads in power planning or from power planning to advice where someone promises the earth that you become an advisor, you're a power planner, and you're thinking, I really want to be an advisor.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you go and join a firm?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: They say, Look, you do power planning, we'll train you up to be an advisor.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: But there's absolutely no plan in place.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: But Sam, does it not amuse you?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it it it's uh it's not as common in your there are firms out there who still won't pay for exams.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's mental.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I I just can't get my head around that.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Get this.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna hoover those those people up because I've got the Financial Planner Life Academy coming out, right?
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna be training administrators.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone wants to become an administrator, if someone wants to become a power planner, if somebody wants to become a mortgage or protection advisor, or if someone wants to become a financial planner, if they are in a firm right now and that firm isn't willing to invest in them, they come into my community for$19.99 a month with no fixed contracts, and they can come in and get full training and development around their qualifications and soft skills training.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: We even prepare people for CAS, that type of thing.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, if someone say like a second careerist, or maybe they're disgruntled, maybe they're an administrator who isn't being supported with qualifications, training, and development, they come into my community.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: We also have got me in there talking to them about what the market looks like and if and how to get ahead in your career.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: So those that aren't investing in their staff, right?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: They will go elsewhere where they can get that information.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the likelihood is they'll leave their businesses at what at some point.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so super important that learning and development is at the forefront of any hiring strategy.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Don't hire if you can't give LD.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: The days of saying, I want an advisor who's got 10 million quid under management to come and join me, they're they're few and far between.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're few and far between.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to get less and less as they as they as they um retire out of the profession.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so important that people are looked after, not baby fed, not spoon-fed, you know, not cotton wool kids, like, you know, but just supported to be the best versions that they can possibly be.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: But very few traditional financial, good financial planning companies have struggled to scale for that reason.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas that's where St.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: James's place for all their faults are fantastic.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I see where you're coming from, I can see the exact market that you're going after.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: And what a pro this is the thing.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: I fell into this.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't work at school.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: I am incredibly, I can't believe I've fallen into a job that I genuinely love and uh and you can make a difference.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm anyway not technical in what I do.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I and I think that's even more so for the younger generation today.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: We talked a little bit at the beginning about social media.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you feel a little you feel a bit like maybe are you doing enough in that space when it comes to social media and marketing?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to just talk about that and get honest with me?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: What what what are you feeling in that space?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you can do more?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you're missing out?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you should, yeah.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: We employ someone to do our social media, uh, one of the advisor in the mortgage business, one of the advisors in the IF in the financial planning business, direct them as to what they do, and they're putting out consistent Facebook.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: We do vouch for and we have had we've had good online success in our first year.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think we've done 20 grand of fees in our first year of joining Vouch4, and we've built that up.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've done our video, our client videos on our website, and we just gradually got it.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think what you and I were talking about is I struggle with brand poll and what level do you pitch it at?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't want to go out being one of these.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: I hate watching people on social media where life is up to I'm quite sarcastic and like I mean, nothing's ever that serious, you know.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: I struggle to get where do I where do I pitch myself?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this is why I've I've approached the Lys yourself to try and maybe do podcasts and be a bit more.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: There is also that waiting for the the friend circle to give you a bit of bit of slack, you know, grief and all that, but that you can get over that.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's it's where that actual pitch, and I don't see that many financial planners who do it well.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Matt in our office is consistently doing LinkedIn.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's no personality in it.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've told them this is just sharing important information.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: For me, people still call me a financial planner because they're the pain point, and you have to fix the pain and then sell the bigger picture, which is the financial planner.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: No one ever comes to say, I want a financial plan, really.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I think that's where the truth is, and that is I just don't know where to pitch it.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: I follow enough people that I just go, Oh, I dare on, I could just read, they're not authentic.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's about it's really, really good, that's really honest as well, because there's lots of people in financial planning that I think are struggling with this, and it doesn't help as well with the FCA regulations around marketing, what you can and what you can't do.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone gets really worried about what they want to say.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: You tend to find that people within financial planning can be overly too technical as well, and thinking and worrying constantly about the red tape and what they're saying is right, is it wrong?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and also it's a it's a profession.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've never met a more judgmental bunch.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Financial planners are so judgmental, yeah, and they're so argumentative with each other.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, IFA shit, and uh oh St.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, and yeah, you see it's like it's like an echo chamber of just negativity.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: And don't ever fall into that trap of being somebody that wants to put somebody else down in the profession to put yourself up.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: You are uh what you come across as such an honest person, right?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're honest, right?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're hard working, um, and you wanna you wanna help others.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is a brand, right?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you lean into kindness, consideration, gratitude, helpful.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: These are all the things at a high frequency that people connect to.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't whinge and moan about life and oh, it's so hard and all these typical types of things because people can latch on to that.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: But guess who you're going to attract?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: The the bullshit, basically, right?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: You want to simplify what it is that you do.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: What is it you do, right?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Simplify it and explain it in a really simplified way.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: What problems do people come up against and what part does money play in that?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Things like the psychology of money, money mindset, and money beliefs, but also I think it's also about establishing and recognizing an area that you are an expert in and that you enjoy.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you can have somebody that's really into therapy, well-being.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm I'm I'm toying with this idea, I well, I'm in the process at the moment of building a financial planning practice.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the parts of it will be employing a financial planner that is well-being focused and uh can connect with and become a key person of influence within the therapy circle.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that I say that because when people go through therapy, maybe money comes up.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Money can be a problem.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one in two people get divorced, don't they?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: So what I would want to do is have somebody who understands the financial problems and the financial worries that come thinking about a divorce and during a divorce and after, whether you're female or whether you're male.
• 54:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: If there's kids involved, some people are doing that really well.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's kids involved in all of that.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to take it to the next level and I want to bring a therapist onto a podcast and have a therapist and a financial planner.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea is talking about money mindset, money beliefs, and trying to stop people from breaking up if money's involved.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, you're adding value by talking about money, by talking about money management and all of those typical types of things and giving away that free content, that free information.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: You start to then link in with all the therapists and all the counselors and all those typical things in the space that you enjoy, which is wellness.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's probably enjoys that area, therefore, it's easy to talk about it.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Then you become that key person of influence within that specific area.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, talking about things on social media becomes something you enjoy talking about.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about picking something you enjoy.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you love cars, if you love golf, if you love football, whatever it is, think about what it is you can lean in.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: If it's business, you know, one of the things I banged on about this a little while back, but B2B.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of financial planners don't do B2B podcasting.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's wide open.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's his chops?
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've forgotten his name now, big high profile planner, the trap, you know, the trap podcasts.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Alan Smith does he taught he targets the businesses exiting your business.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the area that I enjoy the most.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I would enjoy dealing with someone like you who's fast paced business, understands the pain of staff and running your own business, but also want to know where you're going in the future.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I maybe see my career.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I used to work with a coach, Steve Martin, of the Financial Planning Trading Academy, and his next iteration of that is where you become a financial advisor to your business consultant and you really get into the business to prepare the business for the sale, but then put your financial planner hat on after.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the potential is huge.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's huge.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's where I think that's the bit where I think if I'm going on the LinkedIn, I want to be talking to business owners and properly understanding that you're really busy, you've got a lot going on, but look, we can get you set up, get the foundations, and allow that to work away.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why not then?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm not trying to teach you to suck eggs because you might do this already, but in that situation, then it's like, well, who holds those relate who who out there has really great experiences of dealing with business owners that are revving up for an exit?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that would be like acquire, you know, people that deal with like acquisition brokerages, yeah.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have that many that I know of here, but good uh front foot accountants here, and I know I know a couple, and again, it's about them understanding what what financial planning is.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so many of the old school pre-conceptions of commission um selling funds and not doing that plan, and that goes back to you need the you need the accountant to be your client.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: I um uh I had somebody I had somebody approach me on LinkedIn recently who's a financial planner, and he set himself up as a financial planner to the e-gaming community.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh online gaming very very niche, yeah.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Esports and e-gaming.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, that is niche, and it's it's very forththinking because if you're if you love gaming, then you've got something to talk about.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how many gamers are now earning really good money but don't know much about financial management because they spend their whole time professionally playing games, same as professional sports people, isn't it?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got professional sports financial advisors.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: I had a chap on the podcast who worked for Amazon and he knew about e-commerce, a lot of e-commerce stores, but obviously he knew a lot about the Amazon processes, and he also obviously knew a lot of Amazon stores owners that were doing really well.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: So he pitched himself as a brilliant.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I always go with niche, right?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Great if he can find one, but I don't get overly worried about it.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: But when I hear that, I go, okay, now we're I think yeah, now we're really getting into it.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's just it's just sometimes when it comes to niches, we try not to kind of narrow ourselves down too much.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I've got a whole business that's specifically dedicated to the niche of financial planning.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: Alan Smith, who you talked about before, it goes for the media sort of social media type in London, hi, Ernell, etc.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: And now he's he's moving that towards that business sellout, hence the yeah.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think do you find when you deal with business owners such as myself that we tend to be so involved in our businesses and we're so future thinking and entrepreneurial that often we're not actually very financially savvy?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you're too busy.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: You need to be careful, I think, with that type.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want an entrepreneur who's gonna six, seven percent a year on their investments is not gonna not they're too high risk, sort of all in type.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want them because you'll never get them settled down.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but typically I wouldn't say not financial savvy, they don't have the time.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: They are the ID ones because you can get in, get the trust, get the direct debit set up, get them seen, then all of a sudden a year's time they're gonna flip this is great.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, one less that's their pain.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we we are quite good in that area because Matt is 32, I'm 33 or 43, and we have we have picked up quite a lot like that because we have a fixed fee option for for those types of clients, not AEM based, and because I think we're dealing with that all the time, and I'm running my own business, and uh, I think that they're the ones that I enjoy work.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: Then, like you say, you just get talking to them and you find out about their business and their opportunities and how people are amazes me how people are making money.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: I have a really good client, she'll I'll call her a friend, and she was a barrister and then she changed when GDPR came out, she became a GDPR specialist and now has created multiple products in the barrister community mainly, but this GDPR, and I'm like, wow.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is as well, and and and and this is the when you're dealing with business owners who are business development, who are business focused, so business to business focused, they tend to know lots of other people.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, B2B for me, I'm where I've with financial plan of life is it's a B2B business.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got some B2C stuff that goes on, but my recruitment business deals with that.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm really into the B2B because B2B, like the amount of people I speak to who run their own businesses, I understand your pain in running the business.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got a lot a lot of experience about like what works and what doesn't work because I look at lots of different financial planning businesses.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we can have some really, really good conversations and I can really kind of advise and consult.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I want to do is advise and consult and add value.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want transactional business because I want you to open your book up and say, Sam, I know a few other people you might be able to help.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think, that's such a beautiful way for financial planners to market themselves in the B2B arena.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't know.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I think people get a bit put off by B2B because they feel like they might be putting those individuals on a pedestal.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: They feel it must be easier to sell something to a like a director B2C because it's like their friends, etc.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, B2B isn't pedestal based, you've just got to approach it in a different way.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: But you need a bit of experience, right?
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: You you also, in my experience, have to go a wee bit off process.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very process-driven.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would if you become a client that I want you to fill out our client portal and send me all their information.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: Business people are so busy, you may need you may need to call out to their premises and sit with a paper fact find, but get the information, take it away, make their life as easy as possible for them.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that that is something that I've tried to instill in our younger advisors.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: A really good example of that, because I was giving someone a bit of grief recently, was they're waiting for a big protection case to come through.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, where are you with that case?
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm waiting for them to fill in the medical questionnaire.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like for just phone them up and ask the questions.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you you know, out of interest, do you think that the using of the phone even in some of the younger people that are coming through?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not trying to like say young people are scared of phones or anything like that, but I run a recruitment business.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot more texting, WhatsApp in, and emailing that goes on than actually picking up the bloody phone and getting it done.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: There is probably you and I who are the CBH generation, and then there's that younger generation, and then we've had COVID in the middle.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the only way to communicate.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was taught if you email it, you lose it.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if you email a quote, you for you know, get on and do it, get the questionnaire done.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I totally agree with you.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: Send in texts and I don't know, it drives me mad a wee bit.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: Make it as easy as possible.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you tell me that I'm a busy business person, I am a paperwork person, so it does, but there'll be things sitting my personal stuff sitting at my desk for for a week that I have to fill out or do, or it's a hassle.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like if someone just please do it for me, I'll pay you.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: Although my younger advisors would then say to me back, yeah, Paul, but you weren't doing 20 meetings a week.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: We were able to do 20 meetings in Zoom, you were doing now five, 10 meetings a week, and you were out in your car wasting time.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a balance in between.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it goes back to what we originally said.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's a certain amount of phone calls, there's a certain amount of Zooms, and there's a certain amount of face-to-face.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't put yourself in, you know, you don't spend a hundred percent of your time on social media.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you, spending a hundred percent of your time in social media will not unless you're an absolute genius, right?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you're spending money on it, you're you're you're gonna not make money for a while.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Year three was where I started making money when I put my energy and effort into social media.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: However, I also have a passive income coming from my recruitment company, so I can put all my time into it and try things and and build a brand and establish it.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's bloody tough doing that.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you put all your eggs in one basket in whatever type of strategy, you're never ever gonna be a hundred percent brilliant.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: You need to you need to spread yourself out a little bit and you need to try a few different things, and um, but you need to have so those some of those clear goals and objectives, like you know, how many phone calls, how many, how many um zoom calls, not how many emails, not how many texts, how many phones, how many, how many um zooms, and how many face-to-face meetings.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's yeah, that's key.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um I also think on the social media side, following you, you share everything.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that gives me so.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_02: Since I came across you, find you in LinkedIn connected, you put a post out about you want to go on the podcast.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: Who is this guy?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: When and I can see you at home with your family, with your fitness, right?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you're sort of starting to get a profile of that person and what you do.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think we'd probably get on because we're into the same things, and then all of a sudden you're building that network.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think talking, I listen to Trap every single week, love it.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Nick Lincoln uh put that out one day about how you can go and target clients straight away, company's house, get the director's name, get them to the directors.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you look for that in that episode, it's brilliant.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he's quite right, it's the yellow pages of today.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and also you've got to think about right, let's say, for example, you built a podcast.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you had an idea for a podcast and you wanted to build it up and you wanted to get it out there.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: Using a podcast as a business development tool is hugely impressive.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: I can go to I can go to one of the biggest companies in the UK, tell them I've got a top 10 podcast on the Apple Careers podcast chart.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an expert in careers.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this much audience and this is what I talk about.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can I bring you on the podcast?
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, well, yeah, great.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, we've got a financial planner, we've got this, that, and the other.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: Once I'm through the door, not once have I said to you, have I, can I have a vacancy to work on?
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Can I do some business with you?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just talk to you.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: We build a relationship.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if something comes up where you need some support and some help and you know that I can deliver, the likelihood is we're going to connect in some way, right?
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a softer landing approach.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's easier to build the relationship.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think often relationship comes first.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: You have to get that relationship part.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes back to what you said about the BNIs, about the networking events.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you went and did that, for instance, and started networking with professional introducers, and you didn't get business straight away, right?
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: Did you?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: You got a return on that investment of time a bit later on.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to be prepared to give.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: So B and I's um uh philosophy was uh help others to get what they want and you'll get what you want.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that might be that you give me a referral someday.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: It may not be me that gives you it straight back, but someone else might just give you one and you all of a sudden you're going flip me.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: That all came from that.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the way it works.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that with your that's what I always say, the artist just treat clients the way you'd want to be treated, keep them updated, let them know where they are, be honest with them, you know.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do right, look at the long term, you look at the lifetime value of that that that relationship, and you'll always be okay.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's why I've done it on them 21 years now, since the first time I sold an investment.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can I ask you?
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna sort of finish up quite soon.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I really want to ask you a question about you look, you're a business owner, okay.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't even got into the whole what's it like running your own business and all of that kind of stuff.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, to get to where you've got to and you've been really open with your with your opinion and everything.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: But let's flip it here, right?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: You run a business and you interview people for your business.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: What advice would you give for, say, uh, somebody that's going into an interview for administration or power planning or financial advice?
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe it's their first interview process, maybe they're jumping from one job step up into another one, maybe they're coming from a different career and they're a trainee.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: What questions do you think they should be asking the business owner of a financial planning business?
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: What should what what thing should they be looking for when it comes to the interview?
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because what you don't want is someone going in there and just taking anything, you know, I'll take anything.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to get in, I just want to get my foot through the door.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because sometimes that's a wrong thing to do.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: So what advice would you say to those people who are going to interview the candidates?
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: What should they be looking out for?
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps what questions should they ask to test the knowledge or to test the value and the culture of that business?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're asking the wrong person because I hate interviews.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's the biggest pile of crap.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we all just we all just spend.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh really good question.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: Something I've never thought about before.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: My last was a guy called Jack, future shadow advisor.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was actually Matt who would be his his sort of next lineup and our HR manager who did the interview.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_02: I then took Jack for tea because I wanted to know more about Jack and what he was doing.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I like to look to people who play sports, people who go to the gym, have a bit of consistency, you know.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe are part of a community.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_02: I like to know the sex that gives me.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I sort of have done it.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_02: But Sam, but what one of the things I liked about Jack was I had heard about Jack.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't connect the dots till after about a year ago, because he had written to all the financial advice firms and fast offering the services, even to work for free.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think if I was doing that today, doing that today, you know, younger ones should be using video.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, go and learn how to do a cash flow plan, do a video showing you how to do it, and you'll make people sit up.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, you have to be interviewing as much as they they have to be interviewed and use the other way around.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think, especially with this younger generation, and I talk about this quite a bit with clients, the younger generation know the work-life balance better than we do.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think COVID again has done this.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want, you know, they have to have their life outside of work.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's not all about I don't know if you find that there is there is definitely this that has changed a little.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think they need to be asking about how are you hybrid working?
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_02: How do you deal with how do you deal with if my uh um I've got my parent teacher interview or my kids in sports today?
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: How do you deal with that?
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do with this?
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_02: What's your progress?
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Do you what's your career progression?
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I've got great case studies, but go back to paying for exams.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: It amazes me.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_02: I know a good friend of mine who's going to leave his company because one of the many reasons, but one of the reasons they don't support him.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's a fantastic, fantastic advisor.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um there are the things that I would be asking, but you have to have the balls, but don't you Sav?
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you're young, you're dying to get your foot in the door.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the thing.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I think also from the business owner's point of view, now you need to put out as much about your your staff, how you do stuff.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if you come into our office now upstairs, we have a wall, big sign in the middle, good times rules, and it's pictures of all our staff from their home, from their kids to their dogs.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is the ethos.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_02: We go for like because we have hybrid teams um working, we would go for quarterly walks and stuff to make sure we bring everyone together.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: But again, that's all about culture.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Then we post it, we post it.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's for future recruit, future employees to have a look at us from the outside.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you want to be doing that.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: What else do they do?
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because you and I might think an office walk or paying for exams are just a given.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: There are many companies that don't.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So much there to unpack.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just gonna just go over it because I think there are some really good points that you made there.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: One was, you know, Jack went out and he said he he he marketed himself to companies.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I liked what you said about the video because a person can now go onto LinkedIn, they could post a video on LinkedIn talking about what they're looking for, their experience and uh their reasons for wanting to become a financial planner.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can send a message directly to anybody with any firm.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you could do a quick list, right?
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Go on Google, who are the companies within my local area, get all the email addresses down, and perhaps get a person from that website that's a key person of uh interest to you to get your foot in the door.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Could be a power planner, could be a financial advisor, it could be the business owner.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Send a message on LinkedIn, connect with them and follow their companies and start commenting on their stuff, but also send a message.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can send a voice note, you can send a video now through the chat on LinkedIn to have an abolloc to actually put a little video.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Sam here.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm part of the Financial Planner Life Academy.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing my qualifications under Financial Planner Life uh host Sam Oakes.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've learned this about databases and systems, and I've just passed my R01.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now looking for a new entry point.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've done some research, I've done some research, and you're a company I'd love to talk to.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you can help me or even meet with me to give me some pointers, that would be much appreciated.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if that landed in your inbox, what would you say?
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first off, if I didn't have a place, I would certainly be thinking, hold on a minute, who in my group?
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a mastermind group here and part of the next gen community here.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_02: I would be straight on going, guys, who's looking for someone?
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've just found someone who I think really different or worth talking to.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, they especially the because many times you meet a young one really good with IT, and then they send people on CV.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other things to unpack there is that you took hit the nail on the head.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you take people out for that tea and you get to know them, you get to know about them, their what they do in the community.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because community is a really important thing.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Connection is a really it's a really, really, really important thing.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes us happy human beings is connecting with others, right?
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So seeing have they, what do they do?
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: What clubs are they part of?
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_00: What do they do to support people?
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do they do anything around mental health, charity?
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is there anything that they can talk about where they give back?
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's a good sign in somebody as well.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: But also that you know, that's really, really interesting.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: You said there also about culture.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got that wall with all the pictures.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, look, that's the old traditional way of doing it.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But if you've got an Instagram page, and on that Instagram page, you put everything up there which is about your culture of your business.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we're a B Corp, so we put everything about B Corp and the things we do around B Corp.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: We put our lunch clubs on there, all the things that we do, like volunteering, a bit about the culture of the business.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So when someone's already come to see me or before they've come to see me, they already have a good feel and a good understanding of the culture of the business.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully that should answer lots of questions anyway, before they come in.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully they've built a deeper connection.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And more often than not, when someone comes into my business, they're like, I've been on your site, I've done this, I've looked at the social media, I've seen Financial Plan of Life, I love it.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like half the battle, isn't it?
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's done.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's done from a business owner perspective.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And but it also gives that person something to talk about.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if they haven't done any of that and it's all out there, then I say to them, Why haven't you done any research?
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_02: But you know straight away, don't you?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if as a business owner, right, if someone walks through my door and asks me questions about my business, right?
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't take that personally.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't go, oh, how rude.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm talking, I'm interviewing you.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like wicked.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me what you saw, what do you like, what would you change, what did you what do you what was interesting about it?
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I want to learn more about that person.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_00: But also I'm observing and I'm listening to them articulate how, you know, what they like about it and all those typical things that go along with it.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I love all of those types of things.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's absolutely right.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just have the courage when you go into those meetings to ask those questions, to ask about career development, ask about work-life balance, to ask about the things that you're doing outside of work.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can I see my can I see my kids?
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Can I work from home?
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Can I do this?
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do for holidays?
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's hugely important to the next generation.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Massively important.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_02: It gives you a feel for where they are, where they came from.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, my la other than Jack, the last the three hires before that was through people I knew or knew of.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I think recruitment is about looking.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not looking for anyone, probably this side of Christmas, but I'm always thinking who's the next person who.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a guy who was a mentor to me, two of his sons work here now.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, because we followed the role through, and and uh he he he's a regional sales manager for our network, but he's been a big help to me for probably 10 years.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was all I like I know the family, I know the background, I know their stock, you know, you know where they came from and what they stand for.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but fantastic.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, listen, I'm gonna bring this to a close now because I could talk to you all day, but you've really shared some really interesting information, A, about your career, but also your thoughts and your feelings around how to get into the profession, what to look out for.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think anybody listening to this, whether they're experienced in the profession, admins, power planners, financial advisors, trainees, anybody that's listening to this or somebody that's coming in from a second career and thinking about getting to the profession, I think there's loads there to digest, loads of really, really good information.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate your time today.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, let's keep in contact.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I wish you all the best with the future of navigate.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_02: See it yourself, Sam.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking forward to hearing more about the academy.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think you could be on day winner there.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, thanks for the opportunity.