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Fourth World Book Club #6 · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:00
  Sean Harklerode: Hey!
• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the 4th World Book Club on 22 pals. I'm joined by
• 0:10
  Tad Eggleston: playwright extraordinaire, Mark Pratt. And and and you're gonna call him
• 0:19
  Tad Eggleston: yeah, yeah. But I was trying. I was trying to come up with something before the actor.
• 0:26
  Sean Harklerode: Soon to be unemployed.
• 0:28
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, no, that's not the direction we wanted to go. No, no, no, no, no! Versatile character actor, occasional leading man. Sean Harkle Road. How about that?
• 0:39
  Sean Harklerode: Sounds, great.
• 0:41
  Mark Pracht: Comedian.
• 0:43
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 0:44
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, what I was looking for is the Lon Cheney of Chicago.
• 0:49
  Sean Harklerode: Bye.
• 0:52
  Sean Harklerode: I was thinking of Kevin Smith describing Walt Flanagan in in shirt and clerks.
• 1:03
  Mark Pracht: Wow!
• 1:09
  Tad Eggleston: It's early.
• 1:11
  Mark Pracht: I was up.
• 1:12
  Tad Eggleston: Too late. I don't know what to say.
• 1:14
  Mark Pracht: Let's let's get into it, because we're all on a tight schedule, as you
• 1:18
  Mark Pracht: to tell from how fast Tad did the intro.
• 1:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:24
  Mark Pracht: 4th world.
• 1:28
  Tad Eggleston: 4th world.
• 1:29
  Mark Pracht: The the end of the the Don Rickles Saga in in Jimmy Olsen.
• 1:35
  Tad Eggleston: And and may I say not a moment too soon?
• 1:43
  Mark Pracht: I
• 1:44
  Mark Pracht: I was actually trying to come up with a better burn since like that's his thing. But I I didn't.
• 1:49
  Sean Harklerode: You hockey! Puck!
• 1:51
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:52
  Mark Pracht: This I look the like! There's really look this whole, this whole rickles sideline.
• 2:01
  Tad Eggleston: Was entertaining.
• 2:02
  Mark Pracht: It was funny, I mean. And and you know, I think we've talked about this before. I think it's very clear that the Jimmy Olsen stuff is
• 2:12
  Mark Pracht: not Kirby's central focus right?
• 2:18
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 2:20
  Mark Pracht: I did think that, you know we start out with another one of the photo collage
• 2:28
  Mark Pracht: pages 2 of them, in fact, and they're colored, which I thought was interesting.
• 2:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 2:36
  Mark Pracht: That you know where?
• 2:43
  Mark Pracht: ostensibly, I guess we have to assume it's Darkside, or somebody has kidnapped or is trying to kidnap Superman and ends up kidnapping. Clark Kent.
• 2:52
  Mark Pracht: who knew.
• 2:53
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 2:54
  Mark Pracht: And light ray shows up in a Deus ex machina on page 3 or page 4
• 3:01
  Mark Pracht: that I mean like. Then it's not resolved as a Ds box machina until, like the end of the book.
• 3:08
  Mark Pracht: like, it's like a total sideline that goes nowhere, you know.
• 3:12
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 3:13
  Mark Pracht: It was like, it's just like it seemed like just a way to get rid of Superman
• 3:18
  Mark Pracht: for some reason.
• 3:22
  Mark Pracht: I will say,
• 3:27
  Mark Pracht: I guess that's not entirely true. It does come back a little bit in the middle of the book.
• 3:32
  Mark Pracht: We're like a page and a half.
• 3:36
  Mark Pracht: but I don't know like I I always love me some golden guardian. And I think that that's
• 3:44
  Mark Pracht: a fairly I like where he's going with this the clone thing.
• 3:49
  Mark Pracht: But I have to admit when I I read these earlier in the week, and when I was sitting
• 3:58
  Mark Pracht: today trying to get ready, I was trying to remember exactly what happened, and I couldn't.
• 4:08
  Sean Harklerode: Right? Well, it's not exactly yeah. The most memorable
• 4:13
  Sean Harklerode: but I do want to say, while we're on. You talked about page 4 with light. Ray.
• 4:20
  Sean Harklerode: I I just think that's a gorgeous page.
• 4:23
  Mark Pracht: It is.
• 4:25
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 4:25
  Sean Harklerode: And and I was struck over reading the books this this month.
• 4:34
  Sean Harklerode: I think Vince Coletta did a fine job on on these there are a couple of pages where the line looks a little thin, but
• 4:42
  Sean Harklerode: this page in particular, and I mean
• 4:47
  Sean Harklerode: it's a thick line. Reminds me of Mike Allred.
• 4:55
  Sean Harklerode: Especially that that picture of of Clark Kent looking through the through the window there, so.
• 5:02
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 5:02
  Sean Harklerode: I was really struck with with the art and and Coletta's inking. In all 5 of these books this month.
• 5:10
  Mark Pracht: But it's not Coletta.
• 5:12
  Mark Pracht: The other 3 books are Royer.
• 5:15
  Sean Harklerode: Not according to the credits.
• 5:19
  Mark Pracht: At least 2 of them are Royer
• 5:23
  Mark Pracht: cause I I clocked that
• 5:30
  Sean Harklerode: Okay, Orion is Royer.
• 5:34
  Mark Pracht: New guy to the lawyer, and I think Mr. Miracle is as well.
• 5:39
  Sean Harklerode: Forever, people's Colletta.
• 5:41
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 5:43
  Mark Pracht: But I mean, this is, yeah, forever. Pupil is Coletta, but it. This is the coming of Mike Royer as his.
• 5:50
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 5:51
  Mark Pracht: You know.
• 5:52
  Sean Harklerode: Mr. Miracles Coletta.
• 5:54
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I was wrong.
• 5:56
  Mark Pracht: I was wrong. I saw Royer and I got all excited.
• 5:58
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, wait! You know what I'm looking at
• 6:01
  Sean Harklerode: because we skipped around a bit.
• 6:03
  Sean Harklerode: That's number 4. We read Number 5 this week.
• 6:08
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Sean Harklerode: So maybe maybe. In my unknowingness, yeah. So Royer did. Miracle, too. Okay?
• 6:26
  Sean Harklerode: Well, still, that doesn't take away from this page.
• 6:30
  Mark Pracht: That page. That page is fantastic. There was one page that I saw in there that I was like, wow! That's
• 6:35
  Mark Pracht: that's classic, Mike Royer, eliminating detail in the background, which is page 6,
• 6:45
  Sean Harklerode: You mean Coeta.
• 6:46
  Mark Pracht: Coletta. Yeah.
• 6:49
  Mark Pracht: where? Like, we get some buildings and stuff. But there's an awful lot of just specifically that 3rd panel.
• 6:56
  Mark Pracht: I was looking at that. And I was like, Wow, I bet you there was some backgrounds there that old Vince was just like, we don't need that.
• 7:08
  Mark Pracht: although he might have known he was on his way out at that point, too. So
• 7:14
  Mark Pracht: well, he had to have, I mean.
• 7:17
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 7:18
  Mark Pracht: Anyway. But yeah, I thought I thought, despite the and
• 7:25
  Mark Pracht: Don rickle stuff which was amusing.
• 7:28
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I'm not gonna lie.
• 7:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I was. Actually, I was more impressed with Jack's facial expressions than I normally am with what he did with rickles.
• 7:37
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 7:37
  Tad Eggleston: So he he had some fun with that.
• 7:40
  Mark Pracht: Well, you know, like the thing is is like
• 7:44
  Mark Pracht: like, and this is a good place to talk about that like
• 7:48
  Mark Pracht: you know. Kirby was never a realistic artist.
• 7:54
  Mark Pracht: but the his rickles. It does show that he did have kind of a flair for caricature.
• 8:00
  Mark Pracht: cause it does. It looks like Don Rickles, I mean, like it. It's it's it's identifiable. You know.
• 8:11
  Mark Pracht: I don't. Wanna.
• 8:13
  Mark Pracht: I mean the the somewhat grousing over Jack's
• 8:19
  Mark Pracht: dialogue has been a recurring thing with me, but
• 8:23
  Mark Pracht: he gets the he gets the rickle stuff pretty well. I mean, also you do have a template there to follow.
• 8:31
  Mark Pracht: So and who knows? Maybe it may have been that
• 8:37
  Mark Pracht: rickles people had to do a pass at it, you know.
• 8:41
  Mark Pracht: You never know with the license thing.
• 8:44
  Sean Harklerode: I wonder if this was before or after Carson
• 8:50
  Sean Harklerode: talked about Kirby on this night show.
• 8:55
  Mark Pracht: That's that's an interesting question.
• 8:57
  Mark Pracht: Although I thought that was a late seventies.
• 9:01
  Sean Harklerode: I I don't. I don't know. That's you know that story, Pat.
• 9:10
  Tad Eggleston: I do not, but I'm working on it.
• 9:13
  Sean Harklerode: So basically, you know.
• 9:16
  Tad Eggleston: Johnny Carson insulted Jack Kirby.
• 9:20
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 9:21
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 9:22
  Sean Harklerode: So he saw him referred to as the King of Comics.
• 9:26
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 9:27
  Sean Harklerode: And Carson assumed that that he was saying that he was the king of Stand up, comics.
• 9:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Sean Harklerode: Carson did the things like, Who is this guy?
• 9:39
  Sean Harklerode: And then had to come back, I think, the next night or so, and
• 9:45
  Sean Harklerode: and talk about how great an artist Jack Kirby, was, basically.
• 9:50
  Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, that was in 82.
• 9:52
  Sean Harklerode: 82, okay.
• 9:53
  Mark Pracht: 82, so.
• 9:54
  Tad Eggleston: No way.
• 9:55
  Mark Pracht: Probably when he went over to that was probably when he was doing that thing with first, st
• 10:00
  Mark Pracht: and because it was the 3D. Glasses
• 10:03
  Mark Pracht: that specifically he was talking about.
• 10:09
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, let me see.
• 10:13
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, right.
• 10:14
  Mark Pracht: I'm reading Marky Veneer's.
• 10:23
  Sean Harklerode: So, Carson apologized a couple of weeks later.
• 10:26
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 10:29
  Tad Eggleston: Settled with an on-air apology, followed by an exchange of money.
• 10:37
  Mark Pracht: Wow!
• 10:38
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean.
• 10:39
  Sean Harklerode: That is wild. This this 4th World stuff is wild.
• 10:44
  Mark Pracht: You are correct, sir.
• 10:47
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, may your mother get sucked into a boom tube.
• 10:59
  Mark Pracht: I don't know. I mean, like all in all, I don't have a lot to say about the Jimmy Olsen
• 11:04
  Mark Pracht: but they are.
• 11:05
  Tad Eggleston: I I'm gonna like toss out what might be my.
• 11:13
  Tad Eggleston: I mean. I don't know enough about Kirby files, but what I fear might be my least popular Kirby opinion
• 11:22
  Tad Eggleston: yet, because, starting with the Jimmy Olds and and and a couple of the other books, they put a classic Kirby
• 11:32
  Tad Eggleston: n at at the back and artistically, I think they're better.
• 11:46
  Mark Pracht: I don't know that my copy has that.
• 11:50
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 11:51
  Mark Pracht: I have.
• 11:52
  Sean Harklerode: Up stories.
• 11:53
  Mark Pracht: I have the backup stories that are directly related to the 4th World stuff.
• 11:59
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 12:00
  Mark Pracht: But the stuff that was.
• 12:01
  Tad Eggleston: I see.
• 12:02
  Mark Pracht: And that was.
• 12:02
  Tad Eggleston: So I'm I'm I'm I'm writing a reading on on DC universe. Infinite. So I'm assuming it was what was actually in the back of the
• 12:13
  Tad Eggleston: and and like this, one has star spangled comics number 7 from April, 1942.
• 12:20
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean.
• 12:20
  Tad Eggleston: Introducing the Newsboy Legion.
• 12:23
  Mark Pracht: And.
• 12:24
  Tad Eggleston: I like his panel layouts better. I like his
• 12:29
  Tad Eggleston: action just as much. I like his faces and and
• 12:34
  Tad Eggleston: expressions better. I like his backgrounds more.
• 12:39
  Mark Pracht: I mean, I'm not. Gonna I'm not gonna lie to you like, I think I do believe that in the seventies, as much as the ideas were great.
• 12:48
  Mark Pracht: They're like I I mentioned this before.
• 12:52
  Mark Pracht: like he goes a lot more towards the Splash pages. He's got fewer panels on a page.
• 12:58
  Tad Eggleston: Alright!
• 13:00
  Mark Pracht: He's.
• 13:00
  Tad Eggleston: I mean.
• 13:01
  Sean Harklerode: Lot of 4 panels.
• 13:02
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, like, I think that I think that his and I will say I like
• 13:17
  Mark Pracht: I like the Kirby characters carved in granite sort of feel of his.
• 13:23
  Tad Eggleston: I do?
• 13:24
  Mark Pracht: Stuff more than his golden age stuff.
• 13:26
  Mark Pracht: But I do think that there was an economy of storytelling that made.
• 13:40
  Mark Pracht: That that was obvious to me like that. He figured out he could get through, I think.
• 13:45
  Mark Pracht: and it was. I don't even think it was a laziness thing. I think it was a I need to do more pages. Thing.
• 13:51
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 13:52
  Mark Pracht: That it was like if I.
• 13:54
  Tad Eggleston: No, no.
• 13:55
  Mark Pracht: If I do 4 panels instead of 6, that's gonna take me a lot.
• 13:59
  Tad Eggleston: I'm certain that it has everything to do with speed.
• 14:06
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 14:07
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 14:07
  Tad Eggleston: And and I will say that I didn't. I didn't read these stories as as tightly, and I think they're all Joe Simon and Joe Simon can go back and forth with his writing.
• 14:16
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:17
  Tad Eggleston: I I was really just looking at the Kirby Art.
• 14:22
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 14:23
  Sean Harklerode: I really like. I like the coloring on those.
• 14:25
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 14:26
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, with that, too.
• 14:29
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean this, like, you know, the reasoning for that.
• 14:35
  Mark Pracht: I've been doing a lot of reading about this because based on a project that I was working on that is now not going to happen. But
• 14:43
  Mark Pracht: This was because of
• 14:45
  Mark Pracht: the deal that DC. Cut with.
• 14:48
  Mark Pracht: They had cut a deal with Marvel and Harvey that they were all going to raise their prices to 25 cents, and put in more pages.
• 14:57
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 14:58
  Mark Pracht: So in order to do that they were going to put in more pages by doing reprint stuff.
• 15:03
  Mark Pracht: and then Marvel reneged.
• 15:08
  Mark Pracht: They they all did it, and then Marvel said,
• 15:11
  Mark Pracht: And so Marvel dropped their price back to 20 cents.
• 15:18
  Mark Pracht: because a part of this was like newsstand. People in grocery stores and stuff like that. They weren't carrying as many comic books because they were not a high
• 15:28
  Mark Pracht: right
• 15:28
  Mark Pracht: per an item. They couldn't. They didn't get as much out of each one. So by going up to 25 cents they could get their retailers more money.
• 15:38
  Mark Pracht: And then marvel.
• 15:41
  Mark Pracht: Martin Goodman apparently specifically was like, we're going to drop back to 20 cents. And we're going to make a deal with our with our realtors that they're going to get 50% instead of like 25%, or whatever it was.
• 15:53
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 15:54
  Mark Pracht: So.
• 15:55
  Mark Pracht: It was. It was sort of a
• 15:58
  Mark Pracht: it was almost a rope-a-dope, you know, like they said, Oh, yeah, we'll do that, too.
• 16:03
  Mark Pracht: And then they're like, Okay, now, our books are cheaper and our retailers are getting more of the the cover price.
• 16:12
  Tad Eggleston: Alright!
• 16:13
  Mark Pracht: So that was a 1 of those decisions that was during the
• 16:22
  Mark Pracht: obviously during the car mining pantino era of editor-in-chief, you know.
• 16:29
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, he was out of Retrief at that point.
• 16:32
  Mark Pracht: They'd moved him up from editorial director.
• 16:38
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, it was. It was a real interesting like. It was an interesting thing, because it was.
• 16:43
  Mark Pracht: It was also right when they had become a subsidiary of Warner Brothers, publishing due to a whole
• 16:54
  Mark Pracht: machination of of corporate shenanigans. That's really fascinating to look at.
• 16:58
  Mark Pracht: anyway. But that's why you have backup stories.
• 17:04
  Tad Eggleston: That makes sense.
• 17:05
  Mark Pracht: That's why you have reprint backup stories. That's also why you get as we get into the other books. You know, the like tales.
• 17:13
  Tad Eggleston: Some origin, stories.
• 17:14
  Mark Pracht: Tales of the 4th World, and secondary characters and things like that, anyway.
• 17:22
  Mark Pracht: Good book.
• 17:24
  Mark Pracht: Superman's PAL, Jimmy Olsen, number 1, 30. What is it? 1, 36.
• 17:28
  Tad Eggleston: 1 41.
• 17:30
  Mark Pracht: 1 41.
• 17:31
  Sean Harklerode: 142, one.
• 17:33
  Mark Pracht: 1 41.
• 17:36
  Tad Eggleston: That's right.
• 17:36
  Mark Pracht: Digital copy doesn't have a pay issue number on it.
• 17:44
  Mark Pracht: a decent book. But it was also forgettable, and also
• 17:52
  Mark Pracht: some weirdness. I thought, I like.
• 17:56
  Tad Eggleston: But how could you forget Don Rickles?
• 18:04
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, man, Hoodie! Victims.
• 18:07
  Mark Pracht: I don't. I don't know why we haven't seen a.
• 18:11
  Tad Eggleston: Difference is, Goody Rickles has glasses.
• 18:15
  Mark Pracht: Yes, little tiny glasses. I don't. I don't know why Disney or DC. Isn't doing a absolute Goody Rickles book right now, you know.
• 18:26
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, they're doing these work in progress versions now.
• 18:32
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Tad Eggleston: The the oversized single issue. I mean, if they've got the pencils that would be fascinating to see.
• 18:42
  Mark Pracht: Thinking like he could take off his little glasses, and they would turn into a giant battle axe that would.
• 18:51
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, you mean that absolute! I was thinking.
• 18:54
  Mark Pracht: What I'm saying.
• 18:56
  Tad Eggleston: I was thinking. The absolute editions, the oversized Hardcovers with.
• 19:01
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 19:02
  Tad Eggleston: Gotcha gotcha.
• 19:03
  Mark Pracht: I'm I'm saying, let's bring that character back.
• 19:06
  Tad Eggleston: Bring that character back.
• 19:08
  Tad Eggleston: Okay?
• 19:09
  Tad Eggleston: Trying to think of.
• 19:10
  Mark Pracht: I have a goody rickles pitch that you will love.
• 19:14
  Tad Eggleston: Who? Who? Who will I talk to
• 19:17
  Tad Eggleston: anytime soon that might might be.
• 19:22
  Mark Pracht: Anybody at DC. Editorial that you know you got to bring me on, and I will pitch the hell out of a goody rickles. Absolute Goody Rickles
• 19:35
  Mark Pracht: let I I think that this is the least interest I we've spent what 20 min talking about this.
• 19:41
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 19:41
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, we somehow did.
• 19:43
  Mark Pracht: Buck.
• 19:43
  Tad Eggleston: We did so let let's let's let's introduce ourselves to Sunny Sumo.
• 19:50
  Tad Eggleston: who at least is the proper color, at least on Wednesday.
• 19:56
  Mark Pracht: On this coloring. I don't. You know we don't really know.
• 20:01
  Tad Eggleston: That is possible. But.
• 20:07
  Mark Pracht: I know.
• 20:07
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I've seen bad enough coloring on on enough on enough things.
• 20:18
  Tad Eggleston: That I that I that I'm guessing that they didn't go the marvel hands of Kung Fu
• 20:28
  Tad Eggleston: full on.
• 20:30
  Mark Pracht: Oh, sure!
• 20:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yellow.
• 20:30
  Mark Pracht: I mean, yeah.
• 20:32
  Tad Eggleston: Among other things, they didn't want to get it confused with Mongol, or is it Mongol that's yellow.
• 20:40
  Mark Pracht: Yes!
• 20:41
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. So I mean, they have an actual yellow character.
• 20:45
  Mark Pracht: Although I don't think Mongol exists at this point.
• 20:50
  Tad Eggleston: Hmm!
• 20:52
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, suppose that's possible. But I thought he was pretty old.
• 21:00
  Mark Pracht: I do find it very interesting that the infinity man has absolutely disappeared from this book.
• 21:07
  Tad Eggleston: You're right. Mongol didn't. Didn't debut until November of 1980,
• 21:18
  Tad Eggleston: created by Len Wein and Jim Starlin.
• 21:22
  Tad Eggleston: Alright sorry. Autistic rabbit hole.
• 21:30
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, I was. But like, I do think that that's interesting, like
• 21:34
  Mark Pracht: the infinity man, which was sort of the the kind of the hook for the early issues gone.
• 21:41
  Mark Pracht: And Sonny Sumo sort of like bills. That gap here, you know.
• 21:48
  Mark Pracht: he comes in and saves everybody.
• 21:54
  Mark Pracht: I wasn't quite, I mean, obviously it was the early seventies, and
• 22:03
  Mark Pracht: representation wasn't quite the same as it is now.
• 22:07
  Mark Pracht: I don't.
• 22:09
  Mark Pracht: I don't know.
• 22:13
  Mark Pracht: I don't know how people would feel now. I don't know if I was Asian, how I would feel about a big hero. That's a
• 22:20
  Mark Pracht: large man in a diaper called Sunny Sumo. But I mean
• 22:27
  Mark Pracht: we also get the hint at the end of this story that he is one of the people who can touch the.
• 22:33
  Tad Eggleston: Anti-life equation.
• 22:34
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, and
• 22:36
  Sean Harklerode: Buried within him, right.
• 22:38
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, although if if I remember correctly, that never comes back.
• 22:47
  Tad Eggleston: I may.
• 22:49
  Tad Eggleston: I do like these green guys on page 7.
• 22:53
  Tad Eggleston: He's having some really real fun with the with the monster guys.
• 22:59
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 23:00
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 23:01
  Mark Pracht: Oh, no! I thought that I thought the art on this was pretty spectacular even on page 7, that that last panel man where.
• 23:07
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:09
  Mark Pracht: Is going at that guy, and the blades are coming out and.
• 23:12
  Tad Eggleston: Well.
• 23:13
  Mark Pracht: I mean. And again, it's another one of those where you think about Kirby figuring out ways to move quickly.
• 23:21
  Mark Pracht: like the way he does that look at how much
• 23:25
  Mark Pracht: he's given himself not to draw, you know.
• 23:28
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 23:31
  Mark Pracht: You know, it's basically like a head, an arm, a few fingers, a foot, and then Sonny's.
• 23:36
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 23:36
  Mark Pracht: Butt and legs, and that's it.
• 23:39
  Mark Pracht: But then, again, he's spending all this time building this this
• 23:45
  Mark Pracht: Lovecraftian nightmare here at the top right age.
• 23:50
  Mark Pracht: I mean, it's it's spectacular, I mean.
• 23:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Mark Pracht: You know, and again I mean, I don't. Wanna.
• 24:00
  Mark Pracht: I don't want to just crap on Vince Coletta. But.
• 24:03
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, that is Vince Coletta, Jesus!
• 24:05
  Sean Harklerode: Let's call that up.
• 24:05
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, this is Coletta.
• 24:15
  Mark Pracht: Maybe he was inspired.
• 24:18
  Tad Eggleston: By the Lovecraftian horror.
• 24:25
  Mark Pracht: Maybe he knew. Maybe he knew that Jack was looking for another anchor.
• 24:30
  Mark Pracht: Right?
• 24:31
  Mark Pracht: My game.
• 24:32
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 24:36
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I don't. I mean, like, I actually enjoyed this story a lot. It did.
• 24:43
  Mark Pracht: I did.
• 24:43
  Tad Eggleston: Shoot the robot bear.
• 24:46
  Mark Pracht: Let's shoot.
• 24:48
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I mean. Well, that, continues the you know that. The
• 24:53
  Sean Harklerode: what is the happy land concept from last month.
• 24:57
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 24:59
  Mark Pracht: Which I mean, can we talk about that last.
• 25:01
  Sean Harklerode: Enjoy. Yeah.
• 25:02
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, last month I found that really kind of disturbing, like the way
• 25:08
  Mark Pracht: I thought that it was fairly horrific. What you know De Saad did to the, to the forever. People.
• 25:15
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 25:16
  Mark Pracht: And then
• 25:23
  Mark Pracht: and there is sort of this element.
• 25:28
  Mark Pracht: There is this part of me as a storyteller that was like
• 25:33
  Mark Pracht: would have been really interesting to see how those kids could have gotten themselves out of that situation
• 25:39
  Mark Pracht: rather than having another force come in. You know.
• 25:42
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 25:43
  Mark Pracht: Since you know, the infinity man has been banished.
• 25:49
  Mark Pracht: Few issues ago.
• 25:54
  Mark Pracht: I think.
• 25:58
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I it's kind of like I like sunny Sumo.
• 26:04
  Mark Pracht: I think it's as a cool looking character. I think that it it has
• 26:09
  Mark Pracht: that there's some interesting stuff there, but it's also like
• 26:15
  Mark Pracht: how much was Jack like? Oh, I have this other character. I just want to throw in there. And
• 26:20
  Mark Pracht: instead of.
• 26:21
  Tad Eggleston: Not entirely certain how much he kept track of the last issue.
• 26:28
  Tad Eggleston: and I kind of wonder even.
• 26:29
  Mark Pracht: Oh!
• 26:30
  Tad Eggleston: I kind of wonder how that even worked in that era.
• 26:34
  Tad Eggleston: Because he was sending pages across the country.
• 26:38
  Mark Pracht: Well, and and many people have talked about that. I mean many people, M.
• 26:42
  Mark Pracht: About Jack's terrible memory, right?
• 26:46
  Mark Pracht: And that.
• 26:48
  Mark Pracht: But like.
• 26:52
  Mark Pracht: I mean we've talked about it. It was almost like jazz. He was just like, Okay, here's where we're at. We're gonna and it's like, I don't know that he remembered the details of what.
• 27:01
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 27:04
  Mark Pracht: I mean. That's why he had his assistants there. I think sometimes you know.
• 27:08
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 27:11
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, I thought you know forever, people was always sort of a a
• 27:19
  Mark Pracht: felt like kind of a red-headed stepchild thing.
• 27:23
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 27:24
  Tad Eggleston: I thought that was Jimmy Olson.
• 27:26
  Mark Pracht: Well, now Jimmy Olsen was.
• 27:28
  Sean Harklerode: Like.
• 27:30
  Mark Pracht: This is the way I look at it. All right. I think that new gods and Mr. Miracle have the core of the story right. That's the core of where he's building stuff.
• 27:40
  Mark Pracht: Then there's and I think, forever. People was supposed to be part of that.
• 27:44
  Mark Pracht: But I think that it started being kind of shaky on sales pretty quick.
• 27:52
  Mark Pracht: Jimmy Olsen was always the DC. Was like, look, we're paying you to be here. We want you to do one of our flagship characters right.
• 28:00
  Tad Eggleston: But he's the redhead.
• 28:06
  Sean Harklerode: Mark's just now.
• 28:09
  Sean Harklerode: You can't see the camera, but the redheaded reference is just now striking Martha.
• 28:19
  Mark Pracht: I'm not gonna groan into this microphone, but.
• 28:23
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 28:24
  Mark Pracht: I would also point out that Big Bear has red hair, too. Thanks.
• 28:28
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, okay, they're both red headed stepchildren.
• 28:32
  Mark Pracht: Chocolate.
• 28:32
  Sean Harklerode: Does Orion.
• 28:34
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right.
• 28:38
  Mark Pracht: Truth.
• 28:39
  Sean Harklerode: On new genesis, anyway.
• 28:44
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, it's. And and it's also to what you were talking about about looking about his Golden age work versus his, his seventies work, I mean, like, you know.
• 28:55
  Mark Pracht: I don't. That splash page of forever people on 21. I'm like
• 29:00
  Mark Pracht: that really warrant a splash page that looks like a PIN up that that.
• 29:04
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 29:05
  Mark Pracht: It was like, Oh, you know.
• 29:06
  Mark Pracht: I was doing this PIN up, but I'll just use it as a page.
• 29:10
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, hey?
• 29:15
  Tad Eggleston: But we'll put some dialogue in, and then it becomes a page.
• 29:17
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Mark Pracht: And of course, then we have the teaser at the end for the Omega effect, which.
• 29:29
  Tad Eggleston: Well, also dark side like needs to kill them and take Sumo.
• 29:36
  Mark Pracht: Yes, but you know that also ties into the Omega effect, because.
• 29:42
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 29:43
  Mark Pracht: We we all know about Dark Side's amago effect.
• 29:46
  Tad Eggleston: Do we.
• 29:48
  Mark Pracht: I do?
• 29:50
  Tad Eggleston: I don't.
• 29:52
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean it was.
• 29:53
  Tad Eggleston: I'll learn, though.
• 29:55
  Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, it was kind of a big deal in
• 30:01
  Mark Pracht: What was it? Infinite crisis?
• 30:04
  Mark Pracht: Because Batman got hit with the Omega.
• 30:06
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. Okay, okay, Gotcha, remembering a little bit. Now, I just I I'm not a details guy.
• 30:13
  Mark Pracht: It's okay.
• 30:15
  Tad Eggleston: I'm a big.
• 30:15
  Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, luckily for you, we have a we have a story about Lonar.
• 30:21
  Sean Harklerode: Of the hill.
• 30:23
  Tad Eggleston: Am I the only one that thinks that this is like a a rough draft of commandee.
• 30:29
  Sean Harklerode: Absolutely not.
• 30:30
  Mark Pracht: Percent, no.
• 30:32
  Sean Harklerode: Absolutely not. You're not the only one.
• 30:35
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay.
• 30:38
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah. Sorry.
• 30:39
  Mark Pracht: Just like Lonar, who, if I remember correctly, never appears again, ever.
• 30:47
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:48
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, really, what what happened was, he came up with the joke and changed the name and started over.
• 30:55
  Mark Pracht: Well, and then he also was like, Oh, you want to. You want a planet of the apes thing. I got this guy, you know.
• 31:02
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 31:04
  Mark Pracht: That's a whole another story. But I did think like.
• 31:10
  Sean Harklerode: Oh, oh, my gosh! I did love! How the pun just struck me! His name is Loner.
• 31:17
  Tad Eggleston: Oh!
• 31:21
  Mark Pracht: And Jimmy Olsen has red hair, Sean.
• 31:23
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 31:24
  Tad Eggleston: Hey? I missed it, too, Sean.
• 31:28
  Mark Pracht: I also, you know, like, look on page 2,
• 31:33
  Mark Pracht: upper right. He also picks up
• 31:36
  Mark Pracht: what looks a hell of a lot like Thor's helmet.
• 31:39
  Tad Eggleston: And it does a little bit at Excalibur.
• 31:44
  Mark Pracht: I? Yeah, I mean, like
• 31:46
  Mark Pracht: the the rumor always was that this was sort of what Jack's idea was to do with the with the Norse characters, you know, to to have Ragnarok
• 31:56
  Mark Pracht: and.
• 31:57
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 31:58
  Mark Pracht: Birth. All of these, you know, with new gods.
• 32:02
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, I I think that.
• 32:12
  Tad Eggleston: I always do. You like the horse.
• 32:15
  Mark Pracht: The horses are great, his art is great. I actually, when the horse, the horse, comes out and the like, the.
• 32:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 32:22
  Mark Pracht: Energy and everything. It's all great Kirby artwork, but
• 32:27
  Mark Pracht: so many of these things, you know, and a lot of it has to do with like. I said that price increase, and more pages and.
• 32:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it's it's very clearly. Jack, fill 4 pages.
• 32:38
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 32:40
  Mark Pracht: And it's like, all right. So here's an idea, you know. We'll throw it at the wall and see if it sticks.
• 32:46
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 32:47
  Mark Pracht: And this one didn't, so.
• 32:49
  Tad Eggleston: Well, sure it did. It just became commandy.
• 32:52
  Mark Pracht: Sure. But
• 32:58
  Mark Pracht: let's not talk about command. E. Let's talk about Lonar, or Loner, or.
• 33:05
  Tad Eggleston: Or new gods.
• 33:06
  Mark Pracht: New. What? Yeah, whatever I know.
• 33:09
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wait, no, we're done with new gods, Mr. Miracle or no new gods.
• 33:13
  Mark Pracht: Just finished.
• 33:14
  Mark Pracht: It's a.
• 33:15
  Tad Eggleston: Forever. People, yeah.
• 33:16
  Mark Pracht: We finished forever people. So the next one would be new guys.
• 33:19
  Tad Eggleston: So it's new God's time.
• 33:20
  Mark Pracht: Sorry we're moving fast today. Guys. So.
• 33:23
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:24
  Mark Pracht: I'm confused.
• 33:24
  Tad Eggleston: I I was just. I was just saying, we we can move on from from Lonar, too.
• 33:32
  Sean Harklerode: Well, now.
• 33:34
  Tad Eggleston: I do have a very important question.
• 33:37
  Mark Pracht: Does? DC.
• 33:41
  Tad Eggleston: Have
• 33:44
  Tad Eggleston: a legit claim to the spawn logo, because that looks an awful lot like some early spawn Logos from
• 33:53
  Tad Eggleston: Todd Mcfarlane.
• 33:57
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, you're.
• 33:59
  Mark Pracht: You're not wrong.
• 34:00
  Sean Harklerode: You're not wrong.
• 34:06
  Mark Pracht: I.
• 34:09
  Mark Pracht: The the page 2 and 3 is epic.
• 34:18
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 34:18
  Mark Pracht: At Kirby.
• 34:20
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's.
• 34:26
  Tad Eggleston: I almost wish the page won't didn't have is that metron.
• 34:33
  Mark Pracht: Like the stuff behind him, is so cool that he almost ruins it.
• 34:39
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I know why it's there for story purposes.
• 34:43
  Sean Harklerode: Right. It's a you know. It's a it's a tough mix. Those, you know collages with.
• 34:48
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 34:49
  Sean Harklerode: Work, and and if you don't get it exactly right, it's it doesn't.
• 34:54
  Sean Harklerode: And and you know what he does get it right more times than not.
• 35:01
  Tad Eggleston: But but this one I like. I'm fascinated with the collage. More, I mean cause, because what he's really good at is having the collages be good background.
• 35:12
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 35:14
  Tad Eggleston: Have it not like completely attract your eye, that sort of thing, whereas this one, it's like, I want to explore this space.
• 35:25
  Tad Eggleston: But this, this guy in this weird chair in the middle of it.
• 35:28
  Mark Pracht: There's a hemorrhoid ring up in the right hand corner there, and
• 35:35
  Mark Pracht: you know some, you know pictures of a you know.
• 35:39
  Mark Pracht: I you know. I think, that
• 35:41
  Mark Pracht: I have always liked these the best when there was some color in them.
• 35:45
  Mark Pracht: We talked about that in the early Jimmy Olsen ones, right, because the ones they did in the fantastic 4 always had color.
• 35:52
  Mark Pracht: And I think that that allows the art to integrate a little better.
• 36:05
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, I mean, I don't think this is. I think
• 36:11
  Mark Pracht: I would much rather have had a Jack Kirby Intergalactic Energy Cloud than that for me. Personally.
• 36:24
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Mark Pracht: Just because I wouldn't complain.
• 36:28
  Mark Pracht: I think this one doesn't feel as interesting as some of the other ones to me personally.
• 36:35
  Mark Pracht: especially when I can turn the page and get
• 36:42
  Mark Pracht: one. A piece of Jack Kirby artwork that encompasses like everything. I love Jack Kirby about.
• 36:49
  Sean Harklerode: Yep.
• 36:53
  Mark Pracht: It's like.
• 36:54
  Sean Harklerode: Gigantic.
• 36:55
  Mark Pracht: It's gigantic. The the proportions are all kinds of Wonky, and it doesn't matter. It's it
• 37:03
  Mark Pracht: gives you an impression. It gives you the immediate feeling of something something otherworldly and beyond human kin, you know, and.
• 37:15
  Tad Eggleston: Like the hulk meets the thing trapped to an astrum.
• 37:21
  Mark Pracht: I mean like, but like.
• 37:23
  Tad Eggleston: Only bigger.
• 37:24
  Mark Pracht: It's just it's it's super cool, you know.
• 37:28
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 37:28
  Sean Harklerode: It's crazy, right?
• 37:32
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, are you saying the hulk meets? The thing wouldn't be super cool.
• 37:38
  Mark Pracht: Haven't we seen that.
• 37:41
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I mean, I mean, like mashed together is one thing.
• 37:46
  Sean Harklerode: Or one hulk.
• 37:48
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 37:52
  Tad Eggleston: we're just torturing mark today.
• 38:00
  Mark Pracht: On the day when we're all on a tight schedule.
• 38:06
  Mark Pracht: And Tad's like, well, we have to get through this fast. And I'm like, okay?
• 38:10
  Mark Pracht: And then it's like like bad puns, left and right.
• 38:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yep, yep, yep.
• 38:14
  Mark Pracht: I will say that the one thing about this book
• 38:19
  Mark Pracht: that that made me think something especially about those shorter pieces at the end, that introduce the new characters is, I don't think he uses metron enough.
• 38:27
  Mark Pracht: I think that metron could be our way to see other things and put them in context of what's going on rather than like. If
• 38:39
  Mark Pracht: metron had been there to tell us about Lonar or Loner.
• 38:44
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 38:45
  Mark Pracht: That.
• 38:46
  Tad Eggleston: Does metron get used by other.
• 38:49
  Mark Pracht: Kind of what?
• 38:52
  Tad Eggleston: Does metron get used more by other new gods, writers.
• 39:00
  Mark Pracht: I know he's the he causes the instigating
• 39:06
  Mark Pracht: event of cosmic Odyssey, which is, I love that book.
• 39:14
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 39:14
  Mark Pracht: I I mean, I know that he is one of the the
• 39:17
  Mark Pracht: yeah. I just feel like he's diplomatic.
• 39:21
  Tad Eggleston: I feel I feel like he's he's 1 that that has definitely been played with through the years, cause I've heard more about him than I've heard about
• 39:30
  Tad Eggleston: some of the characters that we see. Lots of.
• 39:33
  Mark Pracht: Like, yeah, I mean, I think that I think that to a general audience metron is more better known than say, a highfather.
• 39:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 39:49
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 39:50
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, I mean, like this whole opening sequence. It it gave. It made me feel like I would like to see more of metron.
• 39:58
  Mark Pracht: I would like to see more of the Mobius chair. I would like to. I think that those are really cool ideas, and they give you a lot of opening. I would like to see more of this
• 40:07
  Mark Pracht: this fire woman on the top of page 4. I like.
• 40:15
  Mark Pracht: like, if you're going to do these. If you're going to do these backup stories, it would be really cool to be like tales of
• 40:23
  Mark Pracht: the his like. What this story is like this opening, right? Yeah, of metron in
• 40:31
  Mark Pracht: interrogating the history of the new gods, you know.
• 40:35
  Mark Pracht: I think that would be much more interesting than what
• 40:40
  Mark Pracht: we've seen so far in these backup stories.
• 40:47
  Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna say that pages
• 40:51
  Tad Eggleston: 6 and 7 are very much
• 40:56
  Tad Eggleston: herbie doing an examination of pipe smoking.
• 41:02
  Mark Pracht: Oh yes, yes.
• 41:05
  Tad Eggleston: Every angle.
• 41:08
  Mark Pracht: Every angle on that pipe.
• 41:10
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 41:17
  Tad Eggleston: And on 5 on the splash page. Is that a sandwich that he's eating? And
• 41:24
  Tad Eggleston: like? That's a really weird way to hold a sandwich.
• 41:27
  Tad Eggleston: If it is.
• 41:29
  Mark Pracht: Well, I will say, this is this, this book does introduce one of my favorite characters, terrible Turpin.
• 41:40
  Mark Pracht: and honestly, the reason he's 1 of my favorite characters is in the Superman animated series.
• 41:47
  Mark Pracht: They bring that character in during the the
• 41:51
  Mark Pracht: series where it's basically the new gods come to earth
• 41:55
  Mark Pracht: and the character of Sergeant Turpin. Terrible Turpin is on in the animated show. 100%. A Jack Kirby
• 42:07
  Mark Pracht: caricature talks like Kirby looks like Kirby, and you know, has the indomitable.
• 42:18
  Mark Pracht: I ain't falling down sort of thing that
• 42:22
  Mark Pracht: we've grown to know and love about Jack.
• 42:26
  Mark Pracht: to the point where every time I see how Jack drew Turpin. I am always like, why does this not look like Jack?
• 42:33
  Mark Pracht: But we'll we'll eventually get to the Jack stand in character. So.
• 42:42
  Mark Pracht: But yeah, I the shark this.
• 42:47
  Mark Pracht: not in this book. It's coming.
• 42:49
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay, it's.
• 42:51
  Mark Pracht: Coming.
• 42:52
  Mark Pracht: It's coming.
• 42:55
  Mark Pracht: But I like the mutated sea creatures. Page 13. The cocoon that's ripped open. That's pretty damn cool.
• 43:08
  Mark Pracht: I don't think we get to see what maybe I'm I'm trying to remember.
• 43:12
  Tad Eggleston: No, I do. I do love the Redovan caffeine. That's yeah fantastic.
• 43:18
  Tad Eggleston: I also love the lighting the cigar for the guy in traction.
• 43:25
  Mark Pracht: Yes.
• 43:27
  Sean Harklerode: There's nothing bastard.
• 43:34
  Tad Eggleston: Here, you can't move your arms. Let me get that for you.
• 43:42
  Mark Pracht: I will also say, page 19, this fight between Slig and Orion, where Orion
• 43:57
  Mark Pracht: basically kills Slig's mother box.
• 44:00
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 44:01
  Mark Pracht: And he's like, you know she's gone, and she couldn't serve you. Your mother box chose to die.
• 44:08
  Mark Pracht: you know, like we get to see a glimpse of, like
• 44:14
  Mark Pracht: the the part of Orion that he tries to push down, you know.
• 44:18
  Mark Pracht: and it's like the the really. And then, of course, on the next page we see how that
• 44:26
  Mark Pracht: reveals his true face. You know.
• 44:29
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, Orion got 2 crazy, awesome fights in this one. Yeah.
• 44:32
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, yeah, Ryan, like, it's funny, like sometimes
• 44:41
  Mark Pracht: there. There are times, especially in this book where I feel like Orion is just sort of like,
• 44:47
  Mark Pracht: And and then there'll be something like this where suddenly the basic ideas that make Orion cool suddenly pop. And you're like, Wow, yeah, okay. Jack knew what he was doing. He knew, like in moments he could really
• 45:05
  Mark Pracht: take the concept and the art and the dialogue and make it all work.
• 45:12
  Mark Pracht: It just wasn't. I don't think it was always consistent.
• 45:16
  Sean Harklerode: Right? Because you bet, basically turns into.
• 45:19
  Tad Eggleston: And then his flying thing works underwater.
• 45:25
  Mark Pracht: It's an ass.
• 45:25
  Mark Pracht: Harness, man. It can go anywhere.
• 45:28
  Tad Eggleston: It activates. Orion activates his equipment, which creates a shield of air, molecules around him.
• 45:37
  Mark Pracht: What'd you want to say, Sean?
• 45:39
  Sean Harklerode: You can see the resemblance to to dark side there, and when he kind of becomes evil, yeah, or or shows his
• 45:48
  Sean Harklerode: his love of of destruction.
• 45:51
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 45:52
  Sean Harklerode: Point for light.
• 45:56
  Sean Harklerode: If my alarm went off.
• 45:58
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Tad Eggleston: And then I am looking forward to the Glory boat.
• 46:05
  Mark Pracht: Oh, I, this next issue has. If I'm remembering correctly, it's 1 of my favorite Kirby pages ever is in the next issue of new gods.
• 46:18
  Mark Pracht: I thought the the fast. And I'm going really fast, because I know we're running out of time.
• 46:23
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, if if we go a little bit long, I can text everybody.
• 46:26
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, like, I'm okay with going a little bit long. But I do need to get out
• 46:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:31
  Mark Pracht: Pass back fast back.
• 46:34
  Mark Pracht: Who cares like this? Seems like a reiteration of
• 46:41
  Mark Pracht: the ideas that were supposedly
• 46:45
  Mark Pracht: forever. People was about, you know the youth of Supertown right.
• 46:49
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:53
  Mark Pracht: And it it just sort of feels redundant. And
• 47:02
  Mark Pracht: he was a pain in the ass. He ran around and destroyed things, but he had a lovely, singing voice. Yeah.
• 47:12
  Sean Harklerode: What a guy.
• 47:13
  Mark Pracht: What a guy.
• 47:15
  Tad Eggleston: See, I wound up getting, go ahead.
• 47:19
  Tad Eggleston: Be classic manhunter.
• 47:21
  Tad Eggleston: This issue, too.
• 47:22
  Tad Eggleston: So I got more really cool, only.
• 47:26
  Mark Pracht: That's on the cover, too. It says.
• 47:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 47:33
  Mark Pracht: Doesn't it say that there's a manhunter story.
• 47:35
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 47:36
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 47:37
  Tad Eggleston: This is the one where I went.
• 47:39
  Tad Eggleston: and then had to go back and look at the other one more carefully because I I hadn't picked up that the other one had been a Kirby classic, too. So it was just like something thrown in.
• 47:53
  Tad Eggleston: But I'm like, wait a minute. This is how Kirby looked earlier.
• 47:59
  Mark Pracht: Look. I mean, I think that
• 48:02
  Mark Pracht: you know, in their in their radio interview between him and Stan. Right?
• 48:07
  Mark Pracht: You know they do talk about.
• 48:10
  Mark Pracht: Stan says that Jack developed this style that was unique to anyone.
• 48:15
  Mark Pracht: and Jack said, You know, I want to thank you for helping me develop that.
• 48:20
  Mark Pracht: And I do think that that's true, and I think that
• 48:28
  Mark Pracht: I do see the shortcuts.
• 48:31
  Mark Pracht: But I also think that at this point, like the late, the late marvel period into the seventies.
• 48:42
  Mark Pracht: I love his Golden Age work. I love his early silver age work, but I mean, this stuff is just like there's no.
• 48:54
  Mark Pracht: there's no mistaking that. That's a Jack Kirby drawing. And there's something super cool about that, you know.
• 49:03
  Mark Pracht: And even when I think that sometimes the storytelling
• 49:07
  Mark Pracht: yeah, maybe gets a little Wonky, I mean, like
• 49:18
  Mark Pracht: I, I have always loved those characters like hewn from granite, like the the
• 49:29
  Mark Pracht: big, the monster, and the last page of the the on page 22. There like
• 49:36
  Mark Pracht: that looks like it. Is.
• 49:38
  Mark Pracht: Is it alive? Is that a piece of machinery? I don't know. It looks hard.
• 49:47
  Mark Pracht: you know. It looks like.
• 49:49
  Tad Eggleston: Left.
• 49:50
  Mark Pracht: Something completely of, not of this earth. And I that's what I love about it.
• 49:56
  Tad Eggleston: Mr. Miracle.
• 49:59
  Mark Pracht: Mr.
• 49:59
  Tad Eggleston: And some wonderful big Barda, though I am gonna throw out really quick at the beginning.
• 50:09
  Tad Eggleston: I was a little upset at how much she got treated like the damsel in distress at the end.
• 50:17
  Tad Eggleston: even after showing her to be a badass.
• 50:20
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 50:21
  Mark Pracht: Well, I think that.
• 50:24
  Mark Pracht: Yes, I mean look.
• 50:28
  Mark Pracht: I think that Jack is also trying to establish this relationship.
• 50:33
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 50:34
  Mark Pracht: And I think that
• 50:39
  Mark Pracht: And you know there's plenty of opportunities coming up for. And the last issue Barda
• 50:46
  Mark Pracht: kicked a lot of ass, you know.
• 50:49
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah. She kicks a lot of ass. This issue. Sure. I mean, that's that's
• 50:55
  Tad Eggleston: that's part of what frustrates me about the way scott
• 51:03
  Tad Eggleston: goes about it at the end, and like I guess, the barda I know now, and the one I prefer would have kicked his ass for showing up and acting like he was saving her rather than just showing up to help her, and like walking away as equals.
• 51:20
  Mark Pracht: But she was still under the power of of Berman Van Derbar's.
• 51:26
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay.
• 51:27
  Mark Pracht: Look.
• 51:29
  Mark Pracht: I do think like I agree with all of that. And, like Barda is, Barda is.
• 51:38
  Mark Pracht: yeah.
• 51:39
  Tad Eggleston: And again I brought it up up top because I didn't wanna make a huge deal out of it. I just wanted it on the record.
• 51:46
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 51:47
  Mark Pracht: But I mean it's also like there there does come this point where it's like
• 51:55
  Mark Pracht: the name on the front of the book is Mr. Miracle, you know.
• 51:59
  Mark Pracht: I get that like that.
• 52:04
  Mark Pracht: Those last 2 issues. It was sort of like
• 52:09
  Mark Pracht: Bart is coming to save Scott, you know, and.
• 52:12
  Tad Eggleston: Well. And and this this one does actually have.
• 52:19
  Tad Eggleston: One of the 1st real examples is something that you you've complained about, which is that rather than just having the
• 52:25
  Tad Eggleston: oh, I've got the mother box.
• 52:27
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 52:28
  Tad Eggleston: Hand, wave.
• 52:29
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 52:31
  Tad Eggleston: Like he actually goes through. How he got out.
• 52:35
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 52:35
  Tad Eggleston: Trap.
• 52:36
  Mark Pracht: That it is actually an escape, not just a right
• 52:41
  Mark Pracht: and that I mean I guess there were mistake escapes. Otherwise, you know every escape, every escape. Artist is a trick, right? It's a trick.
• 52:49
  Mark Pracht: They're all tricks, right? So like, really.
• 52:54
  Mark Pracht: the mother box isn't cheating so much as it's just another piece of equipment. But it's also like this.
• 53:00
  Tad Eggleston: It's the overpowered tool.
• 53:01
  Mark Pracht: It's an overpower to. It's sort of like Doctor, who's sonic screwdriver has become right. It's like
• 53:08
  Mark Pracht: I like. If it does.
• 53:10
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know how to write my way out of this, but I've got a sonic screwdriver.
• 53:14
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 53:15
  Mark Pracht: But you know, and it's still.
• 53:18
  Mark Pracht: let's be honest. It's still a ridiculous escape. But at least it's like, Oh, okay, that's how he did it, you know.
• 53:26
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 53:26
  Mark Pracht: And if you go back and look at the art, it's like, Okay, I don't believe that's how he did it. But that's okay. You know. That's how he did it, you know.
• 53:34
  Mark Pracht: because, like that cocoon, they put him in.
• 53:38
  Mark Pracht: I'm like, so your boot lasers cut through the floor, but it seems like that thing is tighter at the bottom than it is at the top.
• 53:47
  Mark Pracht: anyway, like, that's you know, it's sort of like.
• 53:53
  Mark Pracht: Before we got on. We were talking about
• 53:58
  Mark Pracht: Superman, the new, the movie, the new movie that Sean and I saw yesterday. And I'm not. Gonna I'm not gonna spoil anything but that. There's tons of that stuff in that movie of, like, yeah, it's a comic book.
• 54:10
  Mark Pracht: That's a comic book. That's a comic book. And you know what. I'm okay with that.
• 54:15
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.
• 54:17
  Mark Pracht: But you know
• 54:21
  Mark Pracht: yeah, I I have other thoughts, but I won't even I won't go into it. But
• 54:28
  Mark Pracht: I think I think. I think vermin Vanderbar is an awesome villain, I mean
• 54:43
  Mark Pracht: as a as a toady to Granny goodness, who, we all know, is the greatest comic book character.
• 54:50
  Sean Harklerode: Of all time.
• 54:52
  Mark Pracht: Second Barda.
• 54:55
  Mark Pracht: Granny may be cooler.
• 54:58
  Sean Harklerode: Only Granny.
• 54:59
  Tad Eggleston: Huge.
• 55:00
  Mark Pracht: I think maybe comic book villain! I don't know. I love me some granny. Goodness!
• 55:06
  Tad Eggleston: I did, too.
• 55:06
  Mark Pracht: And
• 55:10
  Mark Pracht: And what is nice about this series is that
• 55:16
  Mark Pracht: they seem to keep putting Scott and Barda up against other former
• 55:26
  Mark Pracht: tutelage. What am I thinking? Wards of, Granny? And it's sort
• 55:33
  Mark Pracht: so vermin wunderbar is like what Scott was supposed to become.
• 55:38
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 55:38
  Mark Pracht: And I think that that is, I think that that
• 55:42
  Mark Pracht: as a sort of recurring theme of the of the book
• 55:47
  Mark Pracht: is is really cool. It's fun. I also love.
• 55:53
  Mark Pracht: I love the the transition from page 19 to page 20, where we see the the murder cocoon
• 56:02
  Mark Pracht: dissolve in the fat vat of acid, and then we cut to everybody laughing about it, and Scott standing right there behind them. You know.
• 56:09
  Tad Eggleston: Yes, I yes.
• 56:11
  Mark Pracht: Love that I mean.
• 56:12
  Mark Pracht: Yes, that's it's it's great storytelling and it it.
• 56:22
  Mark Pracht: and with a big smile on his face because he knows he's he's knows he's got the better of them, you know.
• 56:32
  Mark Pracht: yeah, I thought it was like, and it to to your point, because it's very true it. It is the 1st time that we see somebody. We see Scott do something that would legitimately be called, in my opinion, an escape routine right.
• 56:47
  Tad Eggleston: Where he has to do problem solving as well as flip another box.
• 56:51
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or ask the mother box to do something.
• 56:55
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 56:55
  Mark Pracht: You know that the mother box has some sort of AI
• 56:59
  Tad Eggleston: Right also, just because we we talked about it briefly on the other books. This one, the backup story
• 57:08
  Tad Eggleston: A involves Granny goodness. B. Establishes the the.
• 57:17
  Mark Pracht: How doesn't it?
• 57:18
  Mark Pracht: Schoolwork?
• 57:19
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, how the school works isn't wonder. Bar one of the ones that we even see.
• 57:27
  Mark Pracht: Or.
• 57:27
  Sean Harklerode: Maybe.
• 57:28
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 57:28
  Mark Pracht: We don't. I don't think we see if if it is Vundabar.
• 57:31
  Tad Eggleston: Maybe it just seems like it, because because Scott's dressed like him. And then the metron shows up at the end.
• 57:39
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 57:41
  Mark Pracht: Yes, and yes, metra and.
• 57:46
  Tad Eggleston: So so this is like exactly the type of backup story that
• 57:53
  Tad Eggleston: that we wish they all were.
• 57:55
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, well, and it it also it feeds into it. It helps
• 58:00
  Mark Pracht: like this is part of like Lonar Fastback. Like it doesn't.
• 58:05
  Mark Pracht: They're there's they're tangents
• 58:08
  Mark Pracht: they don't add to the they don't add to the drive of it. This adds to it. It answers questions of that we.
• 58:17
  Mark Pracht: He doesn't have time to answer. We once again get to see Granny with the really like. The psychosexual implications of granny goodness are
• 58:29
  Mark Pracht: incredible. And
• 58:33
  Mark Pracht: the fact that Jack got away with some of this stuff in a comic in the early seventies is
• 58:41
  Mark Pracht: astounding to me, I mean, like, look on page 2 of that story once again Granny pulls out her power wand thing that
• 58:52
  Mark Pracht: looks like a personal massage device, you know.
• 58:56
  Tad Eggleston: Yes, it does, but she's an old lady, so nobody thinks that way.
• 59:05
  Sean Harklerode: That somebody.
• 59:07
  Tad Eggleston: Well, yeah.
• 59:10
  Mark Pracht: Now come on, guys know damn well that
• 59:15
  Mark Pracht: there is tons of of weird sexual subtext in this character.
• 59:24
  Tad Eggleston: Yes.
• 59:25
  Sean Harklerode: Yes.
• 59:26
  Mark Pracht: I love that.
• 59:28
  Tad Eggleston: You asked, you asked.
• 59:30
  Mark Pracht: Went there.
• 59:30
  Tad Eggleston: You asked how he got away with it, and he got away with it because she's an old lady.
• 59:35
  Mark Pracht: I suppose so, but.
• 59:39
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, even before she pulls out the the massage wand. She's essentially stripping on the panel before.
• 59:48
  Mark Pracht: Oh, sure! Down to her, down to our teaching clothes.
• 59:55
  Tad Eggleston: You know, but it's got that.
• 59:58
  Mark Pracht: I mean, like it's arch my shoulders.
• 1:00:02
  Mark Pracht: Sure.
• 1:00:04
  Mark Pracht: No, I think. But I mean like this is part this is part of why, look, this is part of why, I think Granny, goodness is amazing, because, like it's got this, it's got this matronly thing that's wrapped up in this S. And M sort of thing that is a hundred percent.
• 1:00:19
  Mark Pracht: That's not even that's not even subtext. The the subtextual stuff, the the S. And M. Elements like when the female furies show up.
• 1:00:29
  Mark Pracht: you know, like that is like Dominatrix City right? And
• 1:00:37
  Mark Pracht: Like in the way that she she clearly.
• 1:00:45
  Mark Pracht: she clearly Scott, is clearly a favorite of hers, you know, favored
• 1:00:52
  Mark Pracht: until he leaves. You know he escapes right, and she enjoys training him.
• 1:01:00
  Mark Pracht: and I don't know. I just love all that stuff. I think it's it's great. And for a book at this level
• 1:01:08
  Mark Pracht: mainstream publication. And yes, you are right, Tad. It's hidden because of Granny's apparent age. But I mean, I think, that also, like we've talked about, is on the and the Superman animated series. You know, Granny is voiced by Ed Asner, which, like lays even more levels into it, which I.
• 1:01:27
  Sean Harklerode: Makes it even sexier to mark.
• 1:01:29
  Mark Pracht: Well, come on, Merritt. Richards was always going to get on that
• 1:01:38
  Mark Pracht: Ted doesn't know what we're talking about.
• 1:01:41
  Tad Eggleston: I don't remember. No, but I am looking at some some like seventies. 8 era. Roz Kirby.
• 1:01:52
  Tad Eggleston: Hmm!
• 1:01:52
  Mark Pracht: Oh!
• 1:01:52
  Tad Eggleston: I think Roz is Roz is 100% big. Barnet.
• 1:01:57
  Mark Pracht: Right.
• 1:02:00
  Tad Eggleston: Mostly I can see a little granny, too.
• 1:02:03
  Mark Pracht: Probably. But I mean look, I think you know the protectiveness, the I'm going to take care of Scott so that he can do his. His art.
• 1:02:12
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, honestly, I feel like young Roz is Barda, and and and older Roz is, is Granny
• 1:02:20
  Tad Eggleston: just just looking at the the pictures.
• 1:02:24
  Mark Pracht: Well, who was that guy you talked to in the bar? Sean?
• 1:02:26
  Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, I bad lax.
• 1:02:31
  Sean Harklerode: That would that would go with with what he said.
• 1:02:33
  Mark Pracht: And to all the Kirby fans. I'm repeating what Sean said, repeating from the guy he met at the bar. I am not saying that I thought Roz was a bad wax.
• 1:02:43
  Sean Harklerode: And I will not. I will not name him, but I do hope to see him next week.
• 1:02:48
  Mark Pracht: Yes, I hope to see lots of people. Next week.
• 1:02:53
  Mark Pracht: There is actually a 4th World panel going on that I'm planning to go to.
• 1:02:58
  Sean Harklerode: Yes, it's.
• 1:02:59
  Mark Pracht: Thurs.
• 1:03:00
  Sean Harklerode: Thursday.
• 1:03:01
  Tad Eggleston: To tell us all about it.
• 1:03:02
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah, I was planning. I had it all queued up
• 1:03:07
  Sean Harklerode: to mention. Let's see, it's curb Jack Kirby's 4th World Heroes, myths, and philosophy.
• 1:03:15
  Sean Harklerode: It's Thursday in Room 4 from 4 to 5 Pm.
• 1:03:23
  Tad Eggleston: At San Diego, comic for those who.
• 1:03:26
  Sean Harklerode: Good.
• 1:03:28
  Tad Eggleston: Who are listening and don't know what they're talking about.
• 1:03:31
  Sean Harklerode: Right.
• 1:03:33
  Tad Eggleston: Hi, mom.
• 1:03:35
  Sean Harklerode: Some folks from the Kirby Museum, Tracy's Tracy Kirby, his granddaughter, Bruce Simon.
• 1:03:45
  Sean Harklerode: and Mark Badger, will be there
• 1:03:49
  Sean Harklerode: so, and Mark and I will be in the audience.
• 1:03:52
  Mark Pracht: Audience.
• 1:03:53
  Mark Pracht: There's also a bill finger panel where I'll be in the audience.
• 1:03:58
  Tad Eggleston: Nice.
• 1:03:59
  Mark Pracht: So find Sean and Mark at
• 1:04:02
  Tad Eggleston: San Diego comic Con. Next week, if you're really lucky, Mark will still have copies of his play on him.
• 1:04:08
  Tad Eggleston: Awesome, and for the for for the 4th quarter there.
• 1:04:14
  Mark Pracht: If you're there, check the freebie table, there'll be a there'll be postcards that'll have a link where you can actually purchase the plays.
• 1:04:21
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, hey? Hey? Hey? Yeah.
• 1:04:23
  Mark Pracht: Long shot. If you're in publishing.
• 1:04:27
  Mark Pracht: and you really want to copy, I I have download cards for Pdf copies of my script drafts
• 1:04:36
  Mark Pracht: so that you could, you know, if you wanted to. Wanted.
• 1:04:40
  Mark Pracht: I wish read my work before. Maybe.
• 1:04:42
  Tad Eggleston: Or if you run a community theater and you're looking for your next play or a non community theater. And and you're and you're looking to take it to the big time. You're a Broadway producer that just desperately
• 1:04:57
  Tad Eggleston: wants to bring Jack Kirby to the stage.
• 1:05:04
  Mark Pracht: There's options for that.
• 1:05:09
  Mark Pracht: anyway. But I should wrap up here, guys. So.
• 1:05:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I was, I was actually gonna take us out. But then you started talking about cards. So I was making certain that you.
• 1:05:18
  Mark Pracht: Well.
• 1:05:18
  Tad Eggleston: Cool.
• 1:05:18
  Mark Pracht: You know, and the other thing is is like Ted Tad.
• 1:05:22
  Mark Pracht: you know you can apply as press to get a free ticket to the convention.
• 1:05:28
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but I'd still have to manage to be able to afford to get there and stay. So it is something that is in the back of my head.
• 1:05:34
  Mark Pracht: Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Sean Harklerode: Yeah.
• 1:05:36
  Tad Eggleston: Well, you know, you know a couple.
• 1:05:38
  Tad Eggleston: particularly as I rack up more friends in La.
• 1:05:42
  Mark Pracht: If you know people who go that.
• 1:05:44
  Tad Eggleston: That's true.
• 1:05:44
  Mark Pracht: We might be willing to to share hotel room costs.
• 1:05:48
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, we'll figure it out. I'll think about it. I mean, obviously won't happen this year. But it's
• 1:05:55
  Tad Eggleston: so. This is my keep in the back of my head.
• 1:05:56
  Mark Pracht: Professional badge, hey? Hey?
• 1:05:59
  Mark Pracht: He'll be back.
• 1:05:59
  Tad Eggleston: You got your pro badge. I'm so happy.
• 1:06:01
  Mark Pracht: Anyway, we should go.
• 1:06:03
  Tad Eggleston: So yep for for the 4th Row book Club. On 22 panels. We will see you after the next page.