Latest / Epic Entrepreneurs / Rich Koch of KoCon Construction Explains How Integrity Scales A Construction Company

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Rich Koch of KoCon Construction Explains How Integrity Scales A Construction Company · Epic Entrepreneurs

• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I am Cliff McCray with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners who turn big ideas into real scalable growth.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm excited to be joined by Rich Cock uh Rich Coke.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let me do that again.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I was gonna do that.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I was gonna do that.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let me do it again.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let me do it again.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, give me a second.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put some dead air.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Make a note.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Cook.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Cook, yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm excited to be joined by Rich Cook with Kocon Construction.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Rich, how are you doing today?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing well.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: How about yourself?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm doing great, man.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm really, really doing great.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited to have you on and learn more about uh Kokon construction.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, man, if you don't mind, let's go ahead and jump right into it.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sounds great, man.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, kind of tell me a little bit about what you got going on.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's Kocon Construction and what do you provide for the community?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, Kokon Construction, we are a remodeling and renovation company.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: As we speak now, we're progressing into building and development in the upcoming years.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we provide high-end carpentry and remodeling down to trim work, fine details, helping, you know, plan a whole build or additions to houses and whatnot.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that we're we're kind of in the market.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, we I just got my building license and whatnot.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna start progressing into doing full development and builds.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: So as of now, we're kind of in our niche for the remodel and renovation side right now.
• 2:21
  unknown: Okay.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And who is Rich Cook as a person?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: What do you got going on in your personal life?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Any hobbies or anything?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big sports fanatic.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: I guess my hobbies now are my kids.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: My kids are my life.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: I coach baseball, my son's baseball team, my daughter, she's in the gymnastics and everything.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: So my hobbies now are more consumed with my kids.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: I do like to golf occasionally.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't get to do it as much as I like, but I'd say between the kids and golf and you know, family trips and vacations, that's kind of what I live for nowadays.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, good deal, good deal.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, kind of get into it, and you know, kind of your business a little bit, you know.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Rich, you have been you have more than 15 years into trades and launch COCON in you know, 2019, was it right?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep, that's correct.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what finally made you decide to build the company under your your own name and standards?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a long time coming.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I always wanted to be a business owner, but I had been working with companies and didn't see much like, you know, growth within the companies and was kind of you know doing a lot of the manual labor for people that were never on site.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, took took to myself to like, you know, I could run these jobs and and do it.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, my when my fiance got pregnant was when I was like, you know what, it's either now or never.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Let's take the leap of faith.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, I'm gonna try my hand.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: So jumped off.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I got my you know business license and everything.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was kind of, you know, at the bottom of the total pole trying to figure out how I'm gonna get all this work and come in since I just like turned out, like walked away from my other jobs.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course, like COVID hit right, right when it happened.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a really nerve-wracking time, but it was actually a blessing in disguise because we were essential employees at the time.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it actually helped my helped me launch the business, and and we've been taking off ever since COVID.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a nice redemption story there, especially with COVID.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: COVID was you know very negative, obviously.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's cool that you made something positive out of it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, Rich, what type of project best represents what Coca Conn does at its highest level, would you say?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: I would say custom carpentry, like you know, for we love doing woodwork and things, cabinetry, uh, really converting people's houses and giving them the top-notch quality and craftsmanship they're looking for.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of people struggle with finding the right people or people cutting corners and whatnot.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we take a lot of pride and doing it the right way and you know, planning from the start to finish with the designers and everything to make a project be exactly what a client wants and bring it to life.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that my my ideal is really just start to start to finish planning and doing a renovation or bringing whatever needs a client wants to their forever home exactly how they picture it with a smooth transaction.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, home remodeling can get emotional because you are inside someone's biggest investment, right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, what have you learned about managing expectations as much as managing construction?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I've learned it really communicating and and and having a real expectation on timelines, breaking it down to the simplest form for a client because some people don't understand what goes down on the back end of things or the timing and the planning that goes into it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I like to bring the customers in and let them experience that and really see how it how it all comes together instead of just I want this, and your expectations are oh, the next day it's gonna happen.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't really work that way.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we we were really thoughtful and try to plan things out accordingly and make everybody understand and all come together on the ideas.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's gone a long way for helping, you know, meet the expectations and and clients understanding how what to expect.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know customers often fear delays and surprise costs a lot of times.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you think about communication and change orders so customers still trust the process when something unexpected happens?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'd I try, and you know, you can't always be perfect, but I try to be realistic and let those things that could possibly come about be up front with them and then be open.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, you never know if you open up a wall and termites have gotten in there, or you know, you got a leak or something in the wall.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Those are just some things you can't expect.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I I try to tell clients to just be open-minded.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: I try to, you know, explain that this could be this and just leave that option open so that they're not startled when something comes about.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And really, I take integrity on doing the right thing.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: So even if I have to take a loss or or don't make as much money on a job by doing it the right way, I still do it the right way.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just because they hired they hired me to do the job the right way and they want it done the right way.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: So regardless if I accounted for that or not, and you know, the expenses there, we we try to make them understand everything up front.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if unforeseeable things come about, we we just we make them understand that uh we're gonna do everything we can to get that right for them.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how often do you see that happen?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's like I said, there's there's unforeseeable things when you start, especially a home remodel.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's pretty frequent.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we always have that discussion in the contract before signing contracts and everything, that these things can happen.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, being having the experience that I have in all the trades, it's not as frequent as as you'd expect, but there's always, you know, the unknowing that I can't predict.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have x-ray vision, can't see through the wall.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I really try to, you know, let them open their mind to that.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: And everybody's been pretty understanding from that sake.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I I'd say it's it's very not not very often that that happens because we try to tackle everything ahead of time.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know if I told you this, but we have a pretty large, you know, small entrepreneurship audience that listens to the podcast with us every week.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll need to be, you know, we're gonna get into now kind of the harder, harder hitting questions here.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because you know, everything's not sunshine and rainbows, you know, everybody kind of wants to hear, you know, kind of the real stuff of what's going on, especially in this economic climate.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what would you say is the biggest challenge co-construct construction is dealing with right now?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I'd say the the biggest challenge is employment and having, you know, the good people that want to work and and carry our standard and craftsmanship.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the biggest thing probably with any business is finding the right employees.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like for me, it was putting the hammer down and having other people run the business for me, like delegating my time where I'm not on site every day.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that that was the hardest thing for me, is because I meet with these clients and they know the expectation or I know their expectations and what I bring to the table.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's trusting your workers and building a good team to see that through for your clients.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the toughest thing, is it just setting, stepping back and putting the tool belt down.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then on on hindsight, another thing with that is, you know, I always thought running a bit a construction business was swinging a hammer.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: You really gotta, you know, it's estimating insurance, you know, subcontractors, scheduling.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: A lot more comes into it that you, you know, you don't realize when you're first starting it out, and when I did when I was younger.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the hurdles that I had to, you know, work through to get where I'm at.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say my number one thing is, you know, finding the right people to help you run the business.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And people don't realize how big that is, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I hear that a lot.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: That uh now do you think that's just uh is it a time thing?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a generation thing?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think is the issue with finding good employees right now?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's uh a little bit of both.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I definitely, I'd hate to say it, the generation now, it's a lot more tech savvy.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: So people are more prone to being on phones and you know, with AI and everything now, jobs are a little easier and being behind a computer at our desk.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's not many, at least for my trade, that want to be hands-on, you know, in the field doing manual labor.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's kind of where we we've kind of blown up and we got we're like a little niche there because not many people want to do it anymore.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we do the quality old school craftsman style of you know, craftsmanship and whatnot, and not many people want to do that anymore.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think it's it has to do with the generation and how times are changing, like with the technology and what and whatnot.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I totally agree.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and then not only that, like you said, but I think everybody and everybody wants to be a TikToker or YouTuber, exactly, streamer or something like that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not everybody's gonna make it from there.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's only like a select few spots for everybody to to do that.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, it seems like all the kids now they want to, you know, you ask them what they want to do when they're kids.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because I got some nephews.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have any kids myself, but I got some nephews, and I ask them, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I used to say when I was a kid, doctor, basketball player, or something like that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: These kids nowadays, oh, I want to be a streamer, I want to be a TikToker, I want to be a YouTuber.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, that's gotta have some realistic goals.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody's gonna be able to do that.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's only so many spots, so you gotta have a realistic goal.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can you can actually go to school and become a police officer.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can actually go to school and become a tradesman.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Those are things you can actually do.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying you can't be a TikTok or YouTuber, but it's just a lot, it's a lot harder.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: You say you're a big sports guy.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: What's your sports team?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, let's not get started on that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big time Raiders fan, unfortunately.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh hopefully, hopefully we got some we we've been saying we're rebuilding every year.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, uh we see that through with our our new quarterback we got, but I don't get hot hopes.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Mendoza.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he looks, you know, he looks all right, you know.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: He does, he does.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's gonna be all right, but we got still got some growing pain, growing pains to get over.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think a couple years from now we might be all right, but uh yeah, not much to cheer for there.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I got my son being a Raiders fan now, and he hasn't got to really cheer for much, so I feel bad for him on that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: But we're big Crosby fans, so he uh he's all about his Max Crosby got jerseys and everything, so yeah, our Raiders haven't given me much pleasure the last over the last decade.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at least he got Crosby though.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I was scared that he was gonna get traded there for a while.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he did, and then he just fell back in our lap, so you know, some things happened for a reason.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, because they tried to trade him when they was it to the Ravens?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Was it yeah?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: The Ravens, yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: They had him, and I guess he failed a physical, and then they they sent him back.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So hey, we're happy to have him.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get me wrong.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably the best player on the team overall.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: For sure, for sure.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, kind of getting back into this.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, what is what have you noticed is kind of the recurring frustration that takes more of your time or energy than it should when running your business.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, man, all the back end work.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: I guess it goes back to me wanting to be more hands-on with everything, but uh I I've learned over the last two year or two that like I'm wearing too many hats.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: So the frustration is like just all the billing, all the keeping up with the insurances, you know, scheduling and all that.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, like I say, delegating time and like really uh hiring like assistants and whatnot to step in to do these roles, those would be the been the big biggest frustrations for me.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, about how many hours a week are you personally running the business or working on the business right now, would you say?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say I mean easily 40 hours a week, if not more.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just because I like I said, I I run multiple at least four or five jobs a week.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm, you know, constantly meeting with clients, my project managers, you know, doing the back end stuff, you know, the invoicing and all that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I still treat it as like a 40, 40-hour a week job, you know, but I do have my freedom to where, you know, I can pull off and be with my kids and do those things.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was that was my big reasoning on starting the business was, you know, I I I didn't grow up with a father figure around and I wanted to be everything to my kids.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: My father wasn't, you know.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So to give the financial freedom and time, that's kind of why I started the business.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I still have that freedom, but I still try to treat it like a for 30 to 40 hour week because my employee, your employees are only as good as you treat them.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I set high expectations for them and I try to let them know that like I'm not asking you to do anything more than I wouldn't do, you know.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: So being out there, being hands-on and showing these guys like this is the right way, just just showing a work ethic, you know.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's a big thing for you know a lot of companies, especially in the construction industry.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I definitely agree with you on that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, and I kind of want you to be a little bit, you know, you gotta be a little bit transparent, a little bit vulnerable here, but you know, because this is kind of a good question to ask, but it's kind of one of those where you're looking from the outside in, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, how many employees do you have working for you right now?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I have six in-house employees currently working for me now.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Six employees, okay.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, let's kind of let's kind of say that we kind of hypothetically sat down with some of your some of your employees, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we did an anonymous type of survey and we asked them straight up, you know, hey, what do you believe is, you know, Rich's greatest strength as a leader?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think they would say?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a leader of men.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I treat everybody fairly and evenly.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't underestimate any of them, and I think they would truthfully say I'm a leader of men, and that's why they staying behind me and and and do the quality work and work as hard as I do.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now getting into that a little bit more, kind of, you know, I know because then I know what your employees think of you is different than what you actually think.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then what do you think is your greatest strength as a business owner?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the same or does it change?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was it's the same, but I I just think just being genuine and you know, as a business owner, just being a big thing is like communication and how you present yourself.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I just I carry a high standard on, you know, I don't do a lot of marketing within the business.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: I a lot of it's word of mouth, so I try to grow customer relationships and that's what keeps our business thriving.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that communication thing is a big thing for me that I take a lot of pride in.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're gonna go to the other end of that spectrum, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say if we sat down with your employees and and asked them, you know, what's one leadership or business skill that Rich still needs to try to improve on right now?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think we would hear from them then?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody's perfect.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, nobody's perfect.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say, you know, everybody would say a little bit more on like maybe management side of things because we have so much going on at one time, it's kind of hard to oversee everything.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I do kind of put a little more on my project manager's, you know, plate to kind of run the jobs a little more smoothly.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, I honestly, like, like I said, nobody's perfect, but I feel like I do a very good job of accommodating and being realistic, and the expectations aren't too much for these guys to handle.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'd really I'd like to know what that answer would be for my guys, truthfully.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's always good.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's always like, it's like, man, what what what do you think about, you know?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, there's I'm sure they're always thinking about something.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just how it is.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's perfect, like you said.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So so, you know, kind of walk me through your handoff from estimate to production.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Where have you had to create systems so jobs do not live only in your head?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually have so I work uh so a lot of mine, I do a lot of kitchen and bath designing and stuff.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a design team with some of the vendors that I work with and purchase cabinetry or my trim work through.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, from the estimate side, I get an estimate together.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have my clients, I'll pass it over to my team that will draw the through 2D renderings for them so that they can get a visual of things before the project even starts or change anything.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then from there, you know, I put it in my assistant's lap to communicate.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: We have a text system uh House Paul Pro that they will send out text messages to clients, you know, when when our scheduled date is to be there with the plans, and every day with that system, we upload pictures into it, and our clients can get real feedback.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Say if they're not living in the house at the time and they want progress pictures, they get the progress pictures to there.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it helps keep everything, each job.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I run you know multiple jobs weekly.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: It helps keep everything organized in that aspect.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good deal, good deal.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's kind of, you know, where do most of your customers come from right now?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is it from word of mouth, Google, you know, online ads?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Majority of it is is word of mouth.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I say we we we take a lot of pride in our craftsmanship and making, you know, solid um connections with people in the areas.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've I worked with a lot of realtors, I work with interior designers because we do the high-end trim work.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, like I said, the word of mouth.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I do have, you know, a website and we upload uh Instagram and Facebook weekly, but there's not many ads we we s we go on.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's really like the realtors, designers, you know, we got some local builders around the area that we we work for that, you know, when some of their recent clients or something need a need a renovation or a remodel because they don't, because the market's in a crazy position right now with interest rates.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want to buy a new house, they want to remodel.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll send them, you know, my way to you know, uh help them plan that project out and see that through.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of it is word of mouth.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get into your competitors a little bit here.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's let's say if I'm talking with a couple of different places, right?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking with Carlos over here, and I'm talking with Jonathan over at this other company.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Why would uh why would someone want to choose your organization instead of the alternatives available to that?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: I would say because we are very thorough, we we we communicate well, you always have a point of contact, whether it's me or one of my project managers.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: We give you real up-to-date progression and updates on your project with the app that I was just speaking about.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: We have a design team.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've been in the industry for years, we're we're well spoken for.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd say that sets us apart because of the integrity as well.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: We just we've we take a lot of pride in doing things the right way.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said earlier, whether if it costs us a little bit more on the back end, it uh it's better to do it right the right way now because it takes a while to build your reputation, but it takes one one bad mistake to ruin it.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, yeah, no doubt about that.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, what is your biggest, you know, tell us about the team kind of supporting you today.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: You said you have uh six other employees, kind of you know, what what pieces and who are the key people and what responsibilities do they own?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the key guys, I've got, well, it's it's pretty cool.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: My brother works for me.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's one of my my lead guys, he's one of the project managers.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that alone has been awesome.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: He, you know, he he runs jobs, he coordinates with my subcontractors, keeps them on schedule, just kind of keeps my jobs running smooth.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: My fiance works in office to help with the schedule.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Scheduling, keep everything organized, does some of the billing, helps with estimating and whatnot.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Another employee is Chad, he's been my lead guy.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: He he he actually got on with me the month after I started my business.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he, I mean, he's been amazing.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: He he's another project manager.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So he kind of does a lot of things that Trevor does, helps, you know, keep keep the project moving around along on schedule, coordinating the subcontractors and whatnot.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I've got Aaron.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: He's been with me for Aaron Cheeks.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: He's been with me for going on four years now.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he's another one of my lead guys that, you know, helps helps run the job smoothly.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the three top project managers and my fiance that help keep everything flowing.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, uh, and now we're gonna go ahead and head into what's called the this or that round.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so how this works is I'm gonna give you this or that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to choose one of them and then kind of give me the reason why you chose it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of kind of a breakaway from all the business talk here to get somebody into your personal personal life a little bit.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, mountains or beach and why?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Beach.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've always lived in the beach area.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing better than going and chilling on a beach on a nice hot day, having a nice drink, you know.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: I used to like skin boarding and and surfing a little bit.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Can't beat a beach day.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Early bird or not out?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an early bird.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an early bird.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Feel like the early bird gets the worm.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was the first one up.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: I I tackle half of my on my task before some people wake up every morning.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I just feel like I'm ahead of the head of the curve every morning, every day.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Cook at home or eat out?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, ooh.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm an eat out guy.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a great cook.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: My fiance is a is an amazing cook, but we're on the go so much.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: And with two kids and our work schedules and whatnot, I'm a more uh eat out type of guy.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got too much going on right now.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Spend it or saving?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Saving.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm big on saving.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I always like to have a fallback.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: You never know what can happen, so I always like to have a reserve there.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Netflix or YouTube?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a Netflix guy.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now, my son would hate me saying that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: He's all about YouTube, but I I go Netflix.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: I like to get into documentaries and shows.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I definitely go Netflix on that one.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Have a personal chef or a high or a housekeeper?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Personal chef.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Personal chef.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I don't cook, so if I could have somebody cooking for me, I could eat at home more.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I wouldn't go out so much if I had somebody cook it for me.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's basically what you're paying out for, right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: You pay for somebody to cook it for.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Dream home or dream vacation?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Dream home.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Dream home.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Just because you can always go on a vacation and you plan if you save enough.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now dream home is a once in a lifetime thing.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's very true.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very true.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like to, let's see how I can put this.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Would you rather live a would you rather have dinner with your future self or relive a great day from your past?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: I would say future self.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Future self.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Future self is probably gonna be a little more knowledgeable than I am now.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've probably learned a lot from that from that person.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I'd I'd go with future self.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh give up your phone for a month or give up TV for a year?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Give up phone for a month.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my phone never stops, so it would be nice to have a breather from that.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the distraction from scrolling on social media and all that would be nice.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Unlimited money or unlimited vacation time?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Unlimited money, because then you can do all the vacations you want.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I mean, that's pretty easy.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Would you rather hire for experience or hire for attitude?
• 26:43
  unknown: It's always a good one.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that's a good one.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, you know, experience is always great, but I feel like a good attitude, I can I I'm a very coachable person, and if you have a good attitude, you'd be willing to learn.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that I feel like that trait would go a lot a long way.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and plus if I can't, if I don't, if I can't stand working with you, then it's not gonna work out.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not gonna work out.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I brought on people with experience, and some people just, you know, I have a certain way about going about things, and they have certain ways, and sometimes we just don't click, it doesn't work out sometimes, you know.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yeah, yep.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, I've been in that too, where you just you, you know, they're very good at what they do, they're amazing at what they do, but then I I have to stand on pins and needles when I go talk to you.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly because you know, you got this attitude or you got this, you know, whatever.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I'm coming at you wrong by telling you a different way to do something, and it's you know, so yeah, I I definitely attitude would be a big one because I feel like if you have a good attitude, you'd be willing to learn, you'd be coachable, and and and we would we'd be able to get you the experience as needed.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Grow fast or grow steady?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a grow steady guy.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to grow too fast because you know, if you don't have the right infrastructure for five jobs, then you definitely won't for 15.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think grow steady, grow a good structure and foundation, and that that's the that's the key to a successful business.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally agree.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Take the risk or play it safe?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm a risk guy.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm a risk guy.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: You never know unless you try.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I I am conservative, I play play, play ball safely, but I probably wouldn't be in the position I'm at now if I didn't take a risk.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see here, and work from home or work from the office?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'd have to say office because too many distractions at home.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Office is a busy work together.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And build a huge company or build one that runs without you?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the last one.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Build one that ha, that's a tough one.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: I like to be hands-on, but I would say build one that runs without me.
• 29:04
  unknown: Okay.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And why do you and why would you choose that?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you can build a successful business that doesn't require all your attention, you have more free time or other opportunities to start another business.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I I'd and more more freedom with my family, uh I'd say.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that and those are times that you that you definitely want, you know, because you can't get those days back, right?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I don't think anybody ever said on their deathbed, hey man, I wish I worked a lot more.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: They always say they always, it's always, you know, I wish I spent more time with this person or spent more time with this person, so on and so forth.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, man.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: So all right, I appreciate that, this or that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a couple last things here, you know.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: So what would you say kind of is your, you know, limits growth more for a contractor like Cochon right now?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, would it be qualified labor, lead quality, estimating quality, uh capacity, cash flow, or project management?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, hmm, I would say uh more skilled labor, honestly.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then you said something about estimating.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's another big one that I've been really trying to get into because a lot of my time is getting consumed into you know meeting with clients and doing that end of things, where I've I've actually been looking into trying to hire somebody for that position because it would take it would give me like back to the delegate your time, you know, delegating time to where I could handle other things.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: So those would be the two main for me would be you know skilled laborers and finding somebody that could help estimate estimates.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what's next for uh CoCon construction?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: What should people be excited about coming up in the near future?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: So what's next for us?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think I said it earlier in our conversation that you know I just got my class A building license.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we've kind of been just doing our custom carpentry and you know, remodels and whatnot.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: But now that I've got my builder's license, we're gonna be building new homes within the next year or two.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I'm slowly gonna start getting into the development side of things so we can kind of develop whole, you know, new communities and whatnot, and then then do the new construction as well.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's uh the next next three three or five year plan for us.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good deal, good deal.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and and with this, you know, I you know, I kind of need you to be as candid and as honest as you can, but let's say if you know, if a business owner, small entrepreneurs listening to the podcast episode with you today, like I said, we have a pretty good sized audience of entrepreneurs that listen.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's say we're having an entrepreneur that's listening today and they're just feeling stuck or overwhelmed.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: 2026 has just not been their year.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: They unfortunately had to lay one of their best techs off because, you know, these, you know, cost of labor is just too much, or cost of materials is just too much.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's a piece of advice you'd give to that small entrepreneur today?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, you know, it it'll all come back around.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Stay patient.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Not uh, you know, not everything's perfect at the at the same time.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know those are growing pains within a business.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Stay consistent to your values and how you want or your vision for your company, and everything will fall into place as long as you stay consistent.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we're recording this around you know the end of August here.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, this next question here would put us at about Thanksgiving, roughly.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if there was one meaningful thing you could change in the next 90 days or by Thanksgiving, what would it be and why?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: What would what would be one thing you would change about by the business in the next 90 days?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: What I would change about the business.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I love the business.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: What I would change though?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's a tough question.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's a uh I don't really have a great answer for that.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of like what we what we got going on here.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I say, I just want to I'd like to see just steady growth and consistency on how we've been operating.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see much, uh I I don't want to change much, honestly.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to change much.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as far as like you know, no, no hypothetical one, there's really nothing you would you would change at all.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: First time we've gotten that.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean not honestly, no.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't I don't not nothing that rings like like really sets out to me.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I like I said, I've got a family uh ran business and we're we're doing very well and heading in the right direction.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the only thing that I would possibly change is I don't I honestly I don't have an answer for that.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think we're doing well.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now now kind of get into what you talked about earlier, right?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: You say quote, one of the big things was you know, finding good employees a lot of time.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Would you would you you know maybe hire maybe maybe if like the perfect candidate came on your lap.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, yeah, in that aspect, yeah.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess yeah, what I would change is you know, finding, you know, more employees to help, you know, with my vision to help help build the company more.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I want to see growth, but like, you know, I I'd like to see change in that aspect of things.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I I'd say the employment, getting the right employees, people in position for my vision and how we want to see this in the next couple of years would be the biggest thing.
• 34:20
  unknown: Okay.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha, gotcha.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right, perfect, man.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Rich, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your behind-the-scenes story of building KOCON construction.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, to everyone listening, be sure to connect with Rich and follow Epic Entrepreneurs for more conversations with the people building businesses and communities every day.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, Rich, before we go ahead and sign off, man, any final words for the audience?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thanks for having me, man.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh, any entrepreneurs, man, don't give up.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's never gonna be perfect to start off.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Don't wait till it's perfect.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Just take the risk and see where it takes you.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, he's definitely right.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, appreciate your your your well words, your wise words here.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, everybody, this is Cliff McCray with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, and we'll see you next time.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.