Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Tom Petty's Life, Music & Enduring Legacy [Episode 335]

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Tom Petty's Life, Music & Enduring Legacy [Episode 335] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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Speaker 1: I look back at the life and musical legacy of
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Speaker 1: Tom Petty and proof that his music will live on
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Speaker 1: for decades to come. That's coming up next on Booke
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Speaker 1: Don Rock. We're totally booked rock and roll.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading.
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Speaker 1: Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll, Rock,
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Speaker 1: roll out. I totally booked. Welcome back to book Don
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Speaker 1: Rock the podcast for those about to read and rock.
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Speaker 1: I'm Eric Sennatch Jillian garr back on the podcast. Her
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Speaker 1: latest book is called Tom Petty The Life and Music.
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Speaker 1: Great to have you back.
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Speaker 2: Jillian, It's great to be here.
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Speaker 1: When did you first discover Tom Petty's music. Was there
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Speaker 1: a specific song or an album that hooked you in?
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Speaker 2: Well, I think it was down the Torpedoes, because that
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Speaker 2: was just if you were there, you know, it was
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Speaker 2: just kind of everywhere. It had a couple albums out before,
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Speaker 2: and I think what American Girl came out before then,
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Speaker 2: didn't it?
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Speaker 1: Uh?
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Speaker 2: And so yeah, you heard that on the radio. But
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Speaker 2: that was like the big explosion, and you saw the
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Speaker 2: big posts anytime you went into a music store, if
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Speaker 2: you went to a music store that year, you saw
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Speaker 2: a poster of that album. On the wall or in
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Speaker 2: the window guaranteed. So you know, he quickly became one
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Speaker 2: of those artists that you knew who he was, even
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Speaker 2: if you never owned any of his records or weren't interested,
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Speaker 2: you knew who he was because he was Well. That
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Speaker 2: was the album that put him over the top finally,
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Speaker 2: to his relief and the band members relief too, I'm sure.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. For me it was late eighties, it was actually
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Speaker 1: full Moon Fever. Ah, and my older brother had a
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Speaker 1: lot of his stuff, a lot of the albums, and
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Speaker 1: so I really invested in all the back catalog after
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Speaker 1: getting turned on to the video for I Won't Back
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Speaker 1: Down and Free Fallen, And I knew he had hits
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Speaker 1: before that, but I just didn't realize what a body
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Speaker 1: of work that he had and how far it went back.
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Speaker 1: And of course, damn the Torpedoes was That's that's the
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Speaker 1: one you had to get first. Let's go back to
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Speaker 1: his childhood, you write in the chapter that covers his
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Speaker 1: childhood quote. On the surface, to Petty appeared to be
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Speaker 1: just another ordinary, happy family, but in reality, Tom Petty's
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Speaker 1: childhood was more like a tale of Southern Gothic horror.
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Speaker 1: Talk about the early years growing up in games with
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Speaker 1: Floord in the fifties and the sixties. What was that
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Speaker 1: like for Tom Petty?
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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't really know much of his background until
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Speaker 2: doing this book, So yeah, it was kind of horrifying
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Speaker 2: to read about this awful childhood that he had, or difficult,
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Speaker 2: I guess one could say, with a father who was
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Speaker 2: physically abusive quite seriously. I mean he had wilts on
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Speaker 2: his body for being hit with a belt. So that's
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Speaker 2: the kind of upbringing that he had. Although one of
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Speaker 2: the sort of sort of amusing things was about that
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Speaker 2: was okay, So we had this obvious conflict with his father.
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Speaker 2: Then as he gets older, it's not necessarily any better
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Speaker 2: because Tom isn't the kind of guy that likes to
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Speaker 2: go out hunting and fishing or play a lot of sports.
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Speaker 2: He's into his music, so his father is a keen
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Speaker 2: on that. And then also he grows his hair long.
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Speaker 2: It's hair was a big controversy with parents and sons
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Speaker 2: in particular back then, and Tom later said that his
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Speaker 2: father had thought that the reason he didn't bring any
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Speaker 2: girlfriends home was because, well, he's probably gay because he
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Speaker 2: has long hair, and the real reason didn't bring any
3:18
Speaker 2: girlfriend's home is because it was such a dysfunctional household
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Speaker 2: and he didn't want to bring people home to hang
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Speaker 2: out there. He'd rather be at their homes. So you know,
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Speaker 2: that was a little amusing there, kind of black humored perhaps,
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Speaker 2: but also, I mean he did have a harsher beginning
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Speaker 2: than say someone like Elvis Presley, who grew up very poor,
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Speaker 2: but you know, did not have that physical abuse, but
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Speaker 2: those difficult upbringings. I find you see this again and
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Speaker 2: again with not just musicians but artists and performers. It
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Speaker 2: does kind of instill a drive in you to get out.
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Speaker 2: Some people buckle under and they kate, but then other
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Speaker 2: people like Elvis or Bruce Springsteen or Tom Petty, they're like,
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Speaker 2: there's got to be something more out there, and I'm
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Speaker 2: going to find it because I'm not staying here.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. If it's too comfortable there at home, why leave?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny you mentioned Elvis. Let's talk about the
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Speaker 1: Elvis story, which is, oh yeah, what really? That lit
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Speaker 1: the flame for him, not so much musically, but also
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Speaker 1: in terms of being a performer, because before he discovered music,
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Speaker 1: he found escape in television. He loved westerns and Hollywood
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Speaker 1: was a magical destination for him. And then in the
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Speaker 1: summer of sixty one, when he's ten years old, the
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Speaker 1: worlds of rock and roll in Hollywood stardom kind of
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Speaker 1: collide and something happens there. Talk about that was his
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Speaker 1: uncle that he met. He got to meet Elvis. His
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Speaker 1: uncle worked on a movie set.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I think it just gave him
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Speaker 2: a taste of what the show biz life was like.
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Speaker 2: And his uncle worked as local crew on film shoots Florida.
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Speaker 2: They're all in Florida, and Elvis went there to make
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Speaker 2: a movie after his army years, follow that Dream, which
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Speaker 2: was set in Florida too, so kind of on location,
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Speaker 2: and his uncle says to Tom and some other young relatives,
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Speaker 2: would you like to meet Elvis? And they go, Okay, sure,
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Speaker 2: that'd be fun. So they're taking over the to the
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Speaker 2: film set and it was in this small town where
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Speaker 2: it was a simple scene where Elvis and his co
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Speaker 2: star drive up to a bank and they walk into
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Speaker 2: the bank and there's all these people waiting to watch that.
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Speaker 2: And Tom said, he's later he's just kind of dazzled
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Speaker 2: by it. All the crowds there, and then the sort
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Speaker 2: of build up as the Cadillacs arrived with Elvis's entourage,
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Speaker 2: the Memphis Mafia. Then Elvis himself arrives, and the girls
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Speaker 2: are going crazy and there and of course Tom and
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Speaker 2: his aunt and the younger relatives, they're all, you know,
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Speaker 2: off to the side on the working on the crew
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Speaker 2: side of the shoots. You know, they meet Elvis, and
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Speaker 2: Tom said he couldn't even remember what he said to him,
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Speaker 2: but just and I guess also ten, you know, Elvis
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Speaker 2: is like feet, so that's a giant to you when
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Speaker 2: you're ten years old. And just seeing the stream of
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Speaker 2: albums that people are sending back to get autographed. And
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Speaker 2: how long it took to shoot this simple scene, which
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Speaker 2: film shoots usually take a while anyway, but this took
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Speaker 2: longer because girls would keep breaking through the barricades and
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Speaker 2: running in and ruining the shot, so they have to
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Speaker 2: do it again and again. And when he got back home,
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Speaker 2: his neighbors asking him what it was like, you know,
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Speaker 2: wanting all the details, and he's describing it, and traded
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Speaker 2: his sling shot for a box of forty five's that
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Speaker 2: the neighbor kid had with some Elvis forty five And
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Speaker 2: so that's really when he started getting interested in Elvis,
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Speaker 2: and he remained a lifelong fan. I mean about well,
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Speaker 2: I guess it's more than a few years ago. That
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Speaker 2: documentary The Searcher that came out about Elvis. It's partly
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Speaker 2: narrated or not narrated, but Tom's one of the interviewees
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Speaker 2: in that movie. And I found looking around online. Oh yeah,
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Speaker 2: I put that in that chatter two and some might
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Speaker 2: think a Rolling Stone article or something. He named his
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Speaker 2: ten favorite Elvis songs, and there are mostly the early songs.
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Speaker 1: As I recall, Oh was it, Yeah, his first band
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Speaker 1: he forms because that guy he got the girls by
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Speaker 1: being in a rock and roll band.
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Speaker 2: Well, they say, that's you know, a big, a big
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Speaker 2: hook for guys. He starts band and that's how you
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Speaker 2: meet girls. Yeah, kind of kind of reminds me of
7:24
Speaker 2: the other book. Just to share something else. Bruce Springsteen
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Speaker 2: also noted that girls like to dance, so he taught
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Speaker 2: himself all the dances, or you know, perfected his dance moves.
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Speaker 2: So at the school dances he could always get a
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Speaker 2: partner because a lot of the other guys, you know,
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Speaker 2: I'm not going to learn how to dance. That's that's
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Speaker 2: Sissy's stuff, and they're wondering, how does Bruce, you know,
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Speaker 2: this scrawny looking guy who doesn't have the height of
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Speaker 2: fashion on him, Well, why does he get girls? Well
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Speaker 2: as he knows how to dance?
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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean with Tom the you know, he
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Speaker 2: was talking to a girls that were looking for a
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Speaker 2: band to play at our show or wherever, you know,
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Speaker 2: and he says, oh, I've got a band, we'll play it.
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Speaker 2: And he didn't have a band at all, right, just
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Speaker 2: cracked me up. Yeah, oh I think I could get
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Speaker 2: something together. Just oh, yeah, I have a band. We'll
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Speaker 2: play at the school or wherever it was. And they
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Speaker 2: did get a band together.
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Speaker 1: Quickly, quickly, Yeah, yeah, and eventually eventually Mudcrutch formed. Kind
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Speaker 1: of skipping ahead to get the chapter six, the Birth
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Speaker 1: of the Heartbreakers, And you write in that chapter quote
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Speaker 1: Tom was at loose ends. He'd come to la with
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Speaker 1: his wife, Jane, who gave birth to their daughter, Adria
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Speaker 1: in November nineteen seventy four, but now with Tom having
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Speaker 1: no band, Jane and Adria returned to Florida to live
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Speaker 1: with her family until he could re establish himself. So
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Speaker 1: talk about what happened with Mudcrutch, and how did the
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Speaker 1: Heartbreakers form because Mudcrutch was that was his thing, Like
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Speaker 1: this was his big break was going to be with Mudcrutch.
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Speaker 1: Didn't happen.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, they put some couple singles out
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Speaker 2: that just didn't do anything, and the label just lost
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Speaker 2: interest in them, but they wanted to keep working with Tom.
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Speaker 2: So it's kind of like the band got fired in
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Speaker 2: a way, Oh but we'll still work with Tom, which
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Speaker 2: you know that must have made everyone feel a bit awkward.
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Speaker 2: But there, you know, he was kind of stranded in
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Speaker 2: La you know, you mentioned his childhood when he's watching
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Speaker 2: shows beamed in from Hollywood and how glamorous it sounded. Well,
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Speaker 2: now he was living in Hollywood and he was on
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Speaker 2: the skits, so he saw the other side of that.
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Speaker 2: And I mean, you walk around Hollywood today and there's
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Speaker 2: you know, the fancy, some high end restaurants and stuff,
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Speaker 2: and then there's also the sleazy motels just just down
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Speaker 2: the road. So he must have wondered what was going
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Speaker 2: to happen, and various things didn't pan out. Although I
9:45
Speaker 2: guess you could see that say that was kind of
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Speaker 2: a year in training because as he played with the musicians.
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Speaker 2: He realized he wanted to get a band together again,
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Speaker 2: and he didn't want to work with studio musicians because
9:58
Speaker 2: he did some things with studio musicians. He just felt
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Speaker 2: it didn't have the right feel because they're just playing
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Speaker 2: the gig and then the next session they go on
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Speaker 2: and back somebody else, and he wanted that band feeling,
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Speaker 2: you know, something more organic. And I mean actually some
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Speaker 2: of the Mudcrutch guys ended up being in the Heartbreaker right.
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Speaker 1: Well, Mike, Mike Campbell and Ben Montench Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And in fact, he showed up at some other session.
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Speaker 2: Was it Campbell's you have the book there? He showed
10:27
Speaker 2: up at a session and there were a number of
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Speaker 2: the guys there from Florida and a few ex Mudcrutchers,
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Speaker 2: and it just worked out so well. They thought, well, hey,
10:34
Speaker 2: let's have this band stay together. Let's make this a band,
10:38
Speaker 2: and it became Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers kind of
10:42
Speaker 2: by default, because Tom was still signed to the label
10:47
Speaker 2: because the label was most interested in him, and he
10:49
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily want to be the front man, even though
10:52
Speaker 2: he did do I guess all the singing by then,
10:55
Speaker 2: but he said, you know, it makes sense for it
10:57
Speaker 2: to just go like this because I'm the one with
10:59
Speaker 2: the record cont and you join in as backing me,
11:02
Speaker 2: and we already have a record deal. So you know,
11:05
Speaker 2: they went along with that, and I think they'd say
11:07
Speaker 2: it probably it worked out well for them in the end.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, And he wanted to call them King Be's or
11:12
Speaker 1: the Gainesville All Stars at first, but then Tom having
11:15
Speaker 1: to deal with Shelter as you mentioned, Shelter Records, the
11:17
Speaker 1: focus was to be on him. So Tom Petty and
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Speaker 1: the Heartbreakers it became, and the debut album from nineteen
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Speaker 1: seventy six to Petty Classics break Down an American Girl,
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Speaker 1: and American Girl is the one, Like you write in
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Speaker 1: the book, and you just mentioned about just Tom Petty
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Speaker 1: in general, there are songs by Tom Petty that maybe
11:33
Speaker 1: you don't even know it's by him, but you sure know.
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Speaker 1: The song an American Girl is one of those songs.
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Speaker 1: And there's also in the lyrics he's alluding to where
11:42
Speaker 1: he came from. I believe you talk about that too.
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Speaker 1: The lyrics in that song.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, he just make references to like a highway in
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Speaker 2: Florida that goes up the coast. But then he also
11:53
Speaker 2: said later that the Sound of the Waves was really
11:56
Speaker 2: the sound of the cars he heard living in Hollywood
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Speaker 2: by his own freeway, So it's kind of like a
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Speaker 2: mashup of the California and the Florida experience.
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Speaker 1: You're going to get. It was the second album, and
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Speaker 1: that was the first to go gold. The singles I
12:12
Speaker 1: Need to Know Listen to Her Heart did well, but
12:14
Speaker 1: it's seventy nine's Damned the Torpedoes where Petty becomes a
12:18
Speaker 1: huge star, his first album to hit the top ten,
12:20
Speaker 1: the first to go platinum, sales over one million. It
12:23
Speaker 1: would eventually sell over three million copies in the US.
12:27
Speaker 1: Don't Do Me Like That, Refugee, Here Comes My Girl,
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Speaker 1: and even the losers are the singles. The big difference
12:32
Speaker 1: here is that they bring in producer Jimmy Iovine. What
12:36
Speaker 1: was it that Iovine did that made such a positive change,
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Speaker 1: while at the same time led to some tension with
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Speaker 1: one member of the band, that being drummer stan Lynch.
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Speaker 2: Ah Well, I hope it was, you know, in the
12:48
Speaker 2: early years of what would be a storied career, and
12:53
Speaker 2: he's a guy that has strong opinions, and I think
12:57
Speaker 2: maybe that's what brought him into conflict just with the drummer,
13:01
Speaker 2: but with the band too at times. And am I
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Speaker 2: right that he's the one that that may Tom upgraatest stereo,
13:07
Speaker 2: the bottom of the stereo.
13:09
Speaker 1: I believe.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, yeah, he comes over to see where
13:12
Speaker 2: Tom's living. He just has, you know, just a modest
13:15
Speaker 2: stereo and she was like, no, no, no, you need
13:17
Speaker 2: to hear your music. You need to hear your records
13:20
Speaker 2: properly and get some uh state of the art, up
13:24
Speaker 2: to date stereo system for him. So you know, he's
13:27
Speaker 2: really concerned with the music and the sound. But yeah,
13:30
Speaker 2: very definite opinions. And it's interesting producers seem to have
13:35
Speaker 2: a lot of trouble with with drummers. You hear about
13:39
Speaker 2: that they'll they'll get on them the hardest, or maybe
13:42
Speaker 2: they're not keeping in time, or they want them to
13:44
Speaker 2: use a click track, and some drummers don't like that
13:47
Speaker 2: because it's just too robotic. So there's that fight between
13:51
Speaker 2: you know, the clean, precise sound and something more organic.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Stan is a pretty opinionated guy himself.
13:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think we can say that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and so he he almost was out
14:03
Speaker 1: of the band. I think there was a you know,
14:05
Speaker 1: a point where there's discussion between Petty and Iven about
14:08
Speaker 1: whether they should replace him, which I'm so glad they
14:10
Speaker 1: didn't because I love Stan Lynch, I love his style.
14:13
Speaker 1: But yeah, he pushed him several takes over and over
14:16
Speaker 1: and over again until, like you say, not just a
14:19
Speaker 1: stand but the whole band. But again, that's what on
14:22
Speaker 1: the other side of it, that's what makes this album
14:24
Speaker 1: so good, right, I mean, that's you know, he was
14:29
Speaker 1: really driving him hard to come up with the complete album,
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Speaker 1: and it worked. The book has broken down into five parts,
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Speaker 1: and Damn the Torpedoes comes during part two, which is
14:39
Speaker 1: titled Into the Great Wide Open nineteen seventy nine to
14:42
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven, And you cover a lot of Did
14:45
Speaker 1: this book cover so many things? Not just the albums
14:48
Speaker 1: and the songs? Like you have Tom's first Saturday Night
14:50
Speaker 1: Live appearance, his first of seven Rolling Stone covers, which
14:54
Speaker 1: is a funny story. He was in a hospital in
14:56
Speaker 1: Santa Monica recovering from about of tonsilitis when he he
15:00
Speaker 1: saw it. But a lot of pressure to follow Damn
15:04
Speaker 1: the Torpedoes, But he did follow with one of my
15:07
Speaker 1: favorite Petty albums, which is Hard Promises. In nineteen eighty one,
15:10
Speaker 1: The Waiting Woman in Love, It's Not Me, and something
15:12
Speaker 1: Big are the singles there. Now here's a great example
15:14
Speaker 1: of the side of Tom Petty that is defiant when
15:18
Speaker 1: it comes to business. Talk about the battle he had
15:21
Speaker 1: with NCAA over the price of the new album.
15:23
Speaker 2: Well, he's a big act now, a big name, and
15:26
Speaker 2: so they wanted to slap on an extra dollar on
15:31
Speaker 2: their big name acts to make more money, because well
15:34
Speaker 2: that's what they want to do. And Tom just thought
15:36
Speaker 2: that was wrong and took a stand on principle that
15:39
Speaker 2: you know, he was perfectly happy with the money he
15:41
Speaker 2: had made before on the last album. He didn't need
15:44
Speaker 2: the extra money, and he was sure the record company
15:46
Speaker 2: didn't need the extra money, and so he just wasn't
15:50
Speaker 2: going to let it out under that price.
15:53
Speaker 1: They wanted it up into nine ninety eight nine dollars
15:56
Speaker 1: and ninety eight cents.
15:57
Speaker 2: He said, nope, nope. He held the line and I
15:59
Speaker 2: guess I guess he had sul NV records that they thought, okay,
16:03
Speaker 2: we'll give him this woman. But yeah, there's a great
16:05
Speaker 2: picture of him. Maybe that was a Rolling Stone cover.
16:08
Speaker 2: It was in Rolling Stone. You know, he's gotten the
16:10
Speaker 2: kind of sly grin, and he's a ripping you knew,
16:13
Speaker 2: ripping the dollar bill, dollar bill and half.
16:17
Speaker 1: You say. But he also had some fun threatening to
16:20
Speaker 1: title the album eight ninety eight in retaliation, so he
16:23
Speaker 1: was going to call it that, And then by the
16:25
Speaker 1: time he was pictured on the cover of Rolling Stones
16:27
Speaker 1: July twenty third, nineteen eighty one issue, he's wearing a
16:30
Speaker 1: suit and tie and smiling as he rips a dollar
16:32
Speaker 1: bill in half. MCA had capitulated Hard Promises would have
16:36
Speaker 1: a list price of eight ninety eight. I didn't know this.
16:39
Speaker 1: Tom also had a further left. The album's cover shows
16:42
Speaker 1: him in a record store, which I know that, but
16:44
Speaker 1: standing by a creative albums that are selling four eight
16:48
Speaker 1: dollars ninety eight, and he said it was just too
16:52
Speaker 1: irresistible to not do a little retouching. He joked, yeah, yeah.
16:58
Speaker 1: You have a chapter covering Petty's duet with Stevie Nicks
17:00
Speaker 1: Stop Dragging My Heart Around, huge hit in the summer
17:03
Speaker 1: of eighty one. Then comes nineteen eighty two, long after
17:06
Speaker 1: Dark You Got Lucky, straight into Darkness Change of Heart
17:10
Speaker 1: of the Singles, Chapter twenty one covers the video for
17:13
Speaker 1: You Got Lucky with the quote it changed everything. Talk
17:18
Speaker 1: about the importance of that video for Tom Petty, because
17:20
Speaker 1: not every artist from his generation or who came out
17:25
Speaker 1: in the seventies embraced MTV the way he did.
17:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you can find him on YouTube, and you
17:32
Speaker 2: see the early videos that they did were basically just
17:35
Speaker 2: performance videos, which frankly a lot of times I like those.
17:39
Speaker 2: Sometimes the two elaborate ones got carried away. Well, I
17:42
Speaker 2: don't suppose people make videos much anymore. It doesn't seem
17:45
Speaker 2: to be a big thing. They'll put out, what a
17:47
Speaker 2: lyric video, that's what you get on that's a lot easier.
17:51
Speaker 2: You don't have to pay for a sub.
17:52
Speaker 1: Dress, Yes, a lot less expensive.
17:54
Speaker 2: Than or a costumer.
17:56
Speaker 1: Let's hope it goes viral. That's the new thing now, viral.
18:00
Speaker 2: But this one, I mean, this was interesting because it
18:03
Speaker 2: has the long intro, and videos rarely had intros like that.
18:08
Speaker 2: They were usually you know, like a single three minutes
18:11
Speaker 2: in and out. But having an intro where the band
18:15
Speaker 2: arrives in you know, they're in the desert and it's
18:17
Speaker 2: this decrepit place, sorry, got that up, decrepit place, you know,
18:24
Speaker 2: abandoned building, and yeah, yeah, very much emulating or maybe
18:30
Speaker 2: influenced by that and what I think I read some
18:34
Speaker 2: of the vehicles they ride in came from the production,
18:37
Speaker 2: the TV production of Logan's Run, using those old sets.
18:42
Speaker 2: But another thing that's interesting, and I'd heard that MTV
18:47
Speaker 2: later had issues with this kind of thing. But you
18:49
Speaker 2: don't really see the band lip sync. You know, they
18:51
Speaker 2: turn on the boombox and you hear the music playing,
18:54
Speaker 2: but you don't really see them getting up and playing
18:57
Speaker 2: their instruments and miming as we used to seeing. I
19:01
Speaker 2: think it's just there's some TV screens all around, and
19:04
Speaker 2: on the TV screens you see film of them doing that,
19:07
Speaker 2: but they're not doing it in the main video. And
19:10
Speaker 2: i'd heard I'd heard that one reason the video for
19:14
Speaker 2: Kate Bushes Running Up That Hill was not aired on
19:17
Speaker 2: MTV was because they don't lip syn lip sync during it,
19:20
Speaker 2: the Kate and her male dancer dancing between themselves. But
19:24
Speaker 2: you know, it's a good video. But maybe because this
19:28
Speaker 2: was the early days of MTV when they really in
19:33
Speaker 2: the early days, they just showed music videos. They didn't
19:36
Speaker 2: have all those reality shows or even MTV news well,
19:39
Speaker 2: I guess they didn't have kind of short little news
19:42
Speaker 2: breaks but not like not like Kurt Loader at his newsdesk.
19:47
Speaker 1: Primarily videos. Speaking of MTV, this Heartbreaker's beach party video.
19:52
Speaker 1: This was a bootleg item for many years. Tell us
19:54
Speaker 1: about this video. Cameron Crowe made it. It only aired
19:57
Speaker 1: once on MTV.
19:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, just has his memoir out now, and I'm wondering
20:03
Speaker 2: if he talks about it in there. He may have,
20:06
Speaker 2: because I think it was the first, possibly the first
20:08
Speaker 2: directorial effort of his and he even to the Heartbreakers
20:12
Speaker 2: because they've written about him for Rolling Stone. You remember
20:15
Speaker 2: he was a journalist at Rolling Stone and I think
20:18
Speaker 2: Cream before going on to write and then direct screenplays.
20:24
Speaker 2: But yeah, what I read was that there's a lot
20:28
Speaker 2: of live concert footage in there, and so MTV was
20:30
Speaker 2: worried about rights or something or who knows, who knows
20:33
Speaker 2: what they worry about odd kind of things. You know,
20:36
Speaker 2: we can't play that Michael Jackson video because it's not rock,
20:39
Speaker 2: so you know, who knows what their decisions were. But
20:43
Speaker 2: I've I've found it. I've found it on the streaming
20:46
Speaker 2: on the web somewhere. You can find things if you look.
20:49
Speaker 2: So that's how I got to see it and see
20:53
Speaker 2: what it was and it's really kind of it's a
20:56
Speaker 2: documentary about the band, but it's also jokey. It's not
20:59
Speaker 2: you know, presented and this serious with the narrator and
21:02
Speaker 2: all this kind of thing. It's in fact, the interview
21:05
Speaker 2: segments are almost a parody of a documentary, but there
21:09
Speaker 2: is live footage that's fun. And then let's see was it.
21:14
Speaker 2: I can't remember if i'd turned in the manuscript theater
21:16
Speaker 2: if it was right at the end. But last year,
21:19
Speaker 2: I think, in conjunction with and I forget which album
21:22
Speaker 2: it was that was being reissued, some album was being reissued,
21:25
Speaker 2: a petty album, and as part of that promotion, they
21:30
Speaker 2: had a couple of theatrical screenings of the film at
21:34
Speaker 2: local theaters. They had one here in Seattle that I
21:37
Speaker 2: went to, and they would have had similar ones, probably
21:39
Speaker 2: just in big markets. But no word on if it
21:44
Speaker 2: will ever be released, Yeah, officially released streaming platform. It
21:51
Speaker 2: seemed from what I remember, I think I think it
21:54
Speaker 2: was slightly edited from the original version, because I think
21:57
Speaker 2: the original version had a few more references to groupies
22:01
Speaker 2: or having fun with groupies something like that. Okay, nothing big,
22:04
Speaker 2: but just and I don't remember that in the reissue
22:08
Speaker 2: so I thought, oh, I guess maybe they clean that
22:10
Speaker 2: up a bit.
22:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, but these are the types of things that are
22:13
Speaker 1: in the book, Like I never knew about that, so
22:15
Speaker 1: that was interesting to read about that. I mentioned Don't
22:18
Speaker 1: Come around Here No More and that's from Southern Accents
22:21
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty five, another one of my all time
22:24
Speaker 1: favorite Petty albums, Don't Come around Here No More rebels
22:27
Speaker 1: and make it better forget about Me, or the three
22:29
Speaker 1: singles in that video. That video Topps you got Lucky Petty.
22:33
Speaker 2: Is the mad Adder, you know, kind of natural.
22:37
Speaker 1: The song wasn't actually intended for Tom Petty. Initially, this
22:41
Speaker 1: is for this was Stevie Nicks. It was to be
22:44
Speaker 1: a song for her, and it's based on a true story.
22:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, where she had met Dave Stewart of your when
22:51
Speaker 2: he was still in you Rythmics and they were traveling
22:53
Speaker 2: around the US in their first big flush of US
22:56
Speaker 2: thing because I think I think they were bigger in
22:58
Speaker 2: the UK before they real big over here. And they
23:03
Speaker 2: got together. But then like the next morning, Stevie just
23:06
Speaker 2: she was in between seeing different people. It was like
23:09
Speaker 2: just get out. I can't have you here anymore. And
23:11
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, whatever, you know. I mean, they're in La.
23:15
Speaker 2: There's plenty of other distractions you can find. So he
23:17
Speaker 2: wasn't really put out by that.
23:19
Speaker 1: Stevie, don't come around here no more.
23:23
Speaker 2: You can hear her say that too.
23:24
Speaker 1: You can say that, yes, but yeah turned into a hit.
23:29
Speaker 1: And then she said no, it's just doesn't fit in
23:31
Speaker 1: with with my next album or something like that. And
23:33
Speaker 1: she said, okay, here, Tom, you want to Is.
23:35
Speaker 2: This the one where you know she hears like the
23:37
Speaker 2: Rough demo or something, and she's, well, what can I
23:41
Speaker 2: add to this? You know you've done it. You're taking
23:44
Speaker 2: this song from me. This can't be my song anymore benefited.
23:48
Speaker 1: Tom Jullian Guard is the author of Tom Petty, The
23:50
Speaker 1: Life and Music chapters on Petty's Live Aid appearance Farm Maide,
23:55
Speaker 1: Bonding with Bob Dylan. They're in there too, of course.
23:57
Speaker 1: They're tour with Bob Dylan, Tom and the Breakers. And
24:01
Speaker 1: there's an album that's sometimes forgotten that came out prior
24:03
Speaker 1: to Full Moon Fever nineteen eighty seven's let Me Up
24:06
Speaker 1: I've Had Enough featuring Jam and Me all mixed up,
24:09
Speaker 1: Think about Me. As the singles, things are moving along
24:12
Speaker 1: quite nicely here until May seventeenth, nineteen eighty seven, when
24:16
Speaker 1: Tom's house burned down. This was not an accident.
24:19
Speaker 2: Now, that was weird. I don't remember hearing about that
24:21
Speaker 2: at the time, and it wasn't something I knew about
24:24
Speaker 2: him until working on this book. But yeah, someone set
24:28
Speaker 2: fire to his house.
24:29
Speaker 1: The while they're in the house too. They're all having breakfast, I.
24:32
Speaker 2: Think he said, yeah, yeah, And it was his wife's
24:35
Speaker 2: birthday and they were you know, that's right, he'll be celebrating.
24:39
Speaker 2: And one of their daughters, thankfully, was sleeping over at
24:42
Speaker 2: a friend's house. And I don't know, I guess if
24:48
Speaker 2: they got up at a regular time. It wasn't unusually early,
24:50
Speaker 2: like you know, four am or something. But yeah, they
24:53
Speaker 2: were there having breakfast, and he thought, oh, what's that
24:57
Speaker 2: Some some wire gone back or something. But then no, no,
25:00
Speaker 2: it's the house and it's on fire. And it sounds
25:04
Speaker 2: like it burned pretty quickly, because he talked about trying
25:07
Speaker 2: to put some of the fire out with the hose,
25:10
Speaker 2: and the hose melted in his hands and his housekeeper
25:13
Speaker 2: got mildly burned. But thankfully that was all that happened
25:18
Speaker 2: to them. They were able to get out, and much
25:20
Speaker 2: of the house was destroyed. I mean, you think about that,
25:23
Speaker 2: losing your stuff, that would be hard, whoever you are.
25:26
Speaker 2: But it seems that a lot of the studio and
25:28
Speaker 2: his instruments and his tapes were preserved, so that was
25:32
Speaker 2: a lucky break for him. But still it wasn't a
25:36
Speaker 2: place he could live. And then he had thought it
25:38
Speaker 2: was an accident, that yes, faulty wiring something like that,
25:42
Speaker 2: but then the investigator said, no, we've looked and it's
25:46
Speaker 2: clearly arson and they found a hole had been cut
25:48
Speaker 2: in the back fence and this kind of thing, and
25:50
Speaker 2: he was just stunned, you know, who would want to
25:53
Speaker 2: kill me and my family? And the comments he made
25:58
Speaker 2: on he said, he just you know, he had no
26:00
Speaker 2: idea who would want to He didn't even and it
26:04
Speaker 2: never has been sald.
26:06
Speaker 1: Never saw in case when cold that's it. Yeah, I mean,
26:08
Speaker 1: that's something that somebody should do some investigation into and
26:12
Speaker 1: find out because that whoever did that should be brought
26:15
Speaker 1: to justice if they're still around. But I mean, then
26:17
Speaker 1: that really that really shook him up. Now I think
26:21
Speaker 1: he rebuilt the house on the same location, but who
26:25
Speaker 1: was it? Somebody? Oh, he was Andy.
26:26
Speaker 2: Lennox to the Lenox, we can the other rhythmics tie.
26:29
Speaker 1: She did him the real solid and made sure he
26:31
Speaker 1: got him and his family got a place to stay,
26:33
Speaker 1: got clothing and all that.
26:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he was going out on tour soon,
26:37
Speaker 2: and he just went ahead with the tour. I mean,
26:38
Speaker 2: I suppose why not instead of just stay home brooding
26:42
Speaker 2: about it. And then it seemed like you know, I
26:45
Speaker 2: always had he kind of had that laconic way of talking,
26:48
Speaker 2: and he'd be at a concert saying, well, yeah, I
26:51
Speaker 2: had an interesting week, you know, like last night my
26:53
Speaker 2: housburn down. They didn't get this, and he holds his guitar.
26:57
Speaker 2: I was going to call music. Yeah, my husband down.
27:00
Speaker 2: I lost most of my possessions.
27:03
Speaker 1: But again the defiance and I won't back down. I
27:05
Speaker 1: think it was partially inspired by that too, like you
27:07
Speaker 1: can't you can't keep me down, and that song, of course,
27:12
Speaker 1: along with so many others, became huge hits off of
27:14
Speaker 1: Full Moon Fever. Part three of the book covers the
27:19
Speaker 1: years nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety six. It's titled
27:21
Speaker 1: It's Good to be King, and Tom Petty was indeed
27:24
Speaker 1: the king. This resurgence of Pop's success starts with the
27:28
Speaker 1: Traveling Willburries talk about how that project came to be
27:32
Speaker 1: and how it leads to Full Moon Fever.
27:34
Speaker 2: I'm a big Beatles fan, so I was very interested
27:37
Speaker 2: in everything to do with the Wilberries, and I've often thought,
27:42
Speaker 2: how well we're working on this book. I often thought
27:46
Speaker 2: about how Tom was among the seventy three million Americans
27:49
Speaker 2: who watched the Beatles in their first day Sullivant appearance
27:53
Speaker 2: on February ninth, nineteen sixty four. And you know, he's
27:57
Speaker 2: about thirteen or so, and so just think, just think
28:00
Speaker 2: if you had told him, you know, in about twenty
28:02
Speaker 2: some years, you're going to make a record with that
28:04
Speaker 2: lead guitarist. I mean, he'd have been floored. He wouldn't
28:09
Speaker 2: have believed you. It's yeah, in what universe? But yeah,
28:14
Speaker 2: it happened. And what I like about that record in particular,
28:18
Speaker 2: certainly the first one, is that it was made just
28:22
Speaker 2: for the fun of making music. They weren't trying to
28:26
Speaker 2: have a hit. They didn't market test it to see, oh,
28:30
Speaker 2: we should drop this song because the audience didn't like
28:32
Speaker 2: it as much. That type of thing that you know,
28:35
Speaker 2: it just came out of George Harrison needed a B
28:37
Speaker 2: side for one of his singles from Cloud Nine, and
28:41
Speaker 2: he was in La and all these other guys happened
28:44
Speaker 2: to be in La. Bob Dylan was there, Oh, you
28:46
Speaker 2: can record at my home studio. Okay. They bring Tom
28:49
Speaker 2: along and oh, they all love Roy Orbison, so let's
28:51
Speaker 2: get him in and Jeff Lin and you know, they
28:54
Speaker 2: go over to Bob's and kind of hash out handle
28:57
Speaker 2: with care and then they have dinner and I kind
29:00
Speaker 2: of figure out the lyrics and then go back in
29:03
Speaker 2: and it's just, you know, this relaxed experience of making
29:07
Speaker 2: music together. And then the record company guys hear it
29:11
Speaker 2: and they say, you know, this is too good for
29:13
Speaker 2: a B side. Would you consider making an album? They say, oh, okay,
29:17
Speaker 2: why not? They had had so much fun initially. Yeah, yeah,
29:22
Speaker 2: let's keep it going. So I think I think that's
29:25
Speaker 2: why you feel such a genuine warmth that comes from
29:28
Speaker 2: that record, because they just love that laid back you know,
29:31
Speaker 2: it's it's almost as if you were hanging out at
29:34
Speaker 2: one of their homes, yes, and they're in the next
29:36
Speaker 2: room playing the songs, and you know, it's just that
29:38
Speaker 2: kind of relaxed everyday homespun kind of feeling.
29:42
Speaker 1: Yes, And I believe the great Jim Keltner on drums
29:45
Speaker 1: on that album. I believe, And they wanted to name
29:48
Speaker 1: him the Wilbury but he was like, no, I want
29:50
Speaker 1: to be behind the scenes. But yeah, I absolutely love
29:54
Speaker 1: that album from start to finish. It is. It's one
29:58
Speaker 1: of my all time favorites. So because jeff Lynn produced that,
30:01
Speaker 1: that kind of leads to the fact that jeff Lynn
30:04
Speaker 1: produced that Wilbury's album, that leads to him producing Full
30:08
Speaker 1: More Fever.
30:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I guess you could kind of see Tom's
30:13
Speaker 2: working with him on Wilbury's as sort of a test run.
30:15
Speaker 2: This is what this guy's like to work with. And yeah,
30:19
Speaker 2: he's also i've heard, kind of an exacting fellow and
30:21
Speaker 2: likes things done in this in this specific way that
30:25
Speaker 2: people don't always agree with. But he obviously connected well
30:29
Speaker 2: with Tom. That was Full Moon Fever.
30:31
Speaker 1: You said, Full More Fever.
30:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:34
Speaker 1: Which is amazing to think that MCA Records rejected it.
30:38
Speaker 1: I don't even know where where to begin with that one.
30:42
Speaker 1: I mean, it's got I won't back down, running down
30:44
Speaker 1: a dream, free falling a face in the crowd, You're
30:47
Speaker 1: so bad. Those are all singles. They rejected it. But
30:51
Speaker 1: then what led to them changing their mind? I think
30:54
Speaker 1: after the Wilburys album became a success they said, although
30:58
Speaker 1: no there was a new, there was.
30:59
Speaker 2: A new Yeah, yeah, I think I think it may
31:03
Speaker 2: have been irving A's off the first time, though. I
31:06
Speaker 2: wanted to check that, but he left. I mean, when
31:10
Speaker 2: the when the earlier administration had heard the record, they
31:13
Speaker 2: said there were no singles. You know, we don't hear
31:16
Speaker 2: the single any singles, which is incredible when you think
31:19
Speaker 2: about it now, but especially in well, that would have
31:23
Speaker 2: been the eighties, wouldn't it. So Yeah, in the eighties
31:26
Speaker 2: and nineties on, you know, a lot of the major
31:30
Speaker 2: record companies are consolidating, and there were a lot of
31:34
Speaker 2: regime changes, and certainly if you were a smaller artist,
31:38
Speaker 2: that was not necessarily so good for you, because you know,
31:41
Speaker 2: an A and R person would be laid off or
31:45
Speaker 2: fired whatever, and then all their bands would get dropped.
31:47
Speaker 2: They wouldn't just get farmed out to other an R people.
31:50
Speaker 2: So that was Tomas too big for that to happen.
31:55
Speaker 2: But you know, I guess he was lucky that he
31:58
Speaker 2: had that delay coming in because then you had new
32:01
Speaker 2: people in charge and they were like, hey, this sounds great. Yeah,
32:05
Speaker 2: let's put this album out. So that must have given
32:09
Speaker 2: him a bit of quite a bit of satisfaction.
32:12
Speaker 1: He never planned on it being a solo project. It
32:15
Speaker 1: just kind of came, just came naturally. I mean, Mike
32:19
Speaker 1: Campbell was there with them and they're jamming, and I
32:21
Speaker 1: think it was Mike Campbell's garage and it just kind
32:25
Speaker 1: of happened.
32:26
Speaker 2: Now.
32:26
Speaker 1: I know some of the Heartbreakers are a little, you know,
32:30
Speaker 1: a little hurt by that they weren't asked to be
32:32
Speaker 1: part of it, but he did. He promised everybody the
32:37
Speaker 1: Heartbreakers are not done, and he was true to that promise.
32:40
Speaker 1: He came back into the Great White Open in nineteen
32:44
Speaker 1: ninety one, which is a great album, Learning to Fly
32:47
Speaker 1: into the Great White Open. Those are big singles. Then
32:50
Speaker 1: the Greatest Hits Album in nineteen ninety three with a
32:52
Speaker 1: brand new hit with Mary Jane's Last Dance. I mean,
32:54
Speaker 1: how many times do you have a Greatest Hits album
32:56
Speaker 1: where there's a brand new hit on it to add
32:59
Speaker 1: to it. I mean, he was on such a roll.
33:01
Speaker 1: But this is the last time Stan Lynch recorded with
33:04
Speaker 1: the Heartbreakers. He's also on the cover of Thunderclap Newman
33:07
Speaker 1: Something in the air, But yeah, there was something in
33:10
Speaker 1: the air. Stan was difficult during those sessions with Rick Rubin,
33:13
Speaker 1: that you're right about it in the book.
33:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, brought in well. The Heartbreakers, I think were always
33:19
Speaker 2: felt a bit threatened when Tom would do his solo
33:22
Speaker 2: stuff because actually, generally Mike Campbell would be involved, I think,
33:27
Speaker 2: pretty much all the time because he was like his
33:29
Speaker 2: right hand man. He was always there with him, So
33:32
Speaker 2: that must have rankled some of the members as well.
33:35
Speaker 2: So I think they were threatened. But then he wouldn't
33:38
Speaker 2: go off and do a solo tour. He would just
33:40
Speaker 2: do a Heartbreaker's tour and add some solo songs in it.
33:43
Speaker 2: So I think, you know, they relaxed and it didn't
33:46
Speaker 2: mind that. But yeah, Stan didn't like the way the
33:51
Speaker 2: new songs for the Greatest Hits album were put together,
33:54
Speaker 2: and he didn't like Rick Rubin's instructions on oh, make
33:57
Speaker 2: it sound like this record, make it sound like that record.
34:00
Speaker 2: He just didn't like Rick Rubin, and there have been
34:02
Speaker 2: other tensions, so I don't think it was a big
34:05
Speaker 2: surprise when he left.
34:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, he knew it was coming.
34:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's interesting. The later biography that was
34:14
Speaker 2: done of Tom Petty with Thomas cooperation, but insisted not
34:18
Speaker 2: his authorization. He wanted the author his name escapes me
34:23
Speaker 2: now was a Warren Zanes. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you.
34:27
Speaker 2: I mean what's interesting about that book is that he
34:31
Speaker 2: got Stan Lynch to talk to him. So, I mean,
34:35
Speaker 2: sure you want to hear his side too, of course,
34:37
Speaker 2: don't you. So yeah, he goes into detail about that session.
34:40
Speaker 2: Stan was not going to be involved and did not
34:42
Speaker 2: want to talk to him, but Zanes kept asking and returning,
34:46
Speaker 2: and you know, eventually want him over, and you know,
34:49
Speaker 2: I think that makes the book stronger.
34:51
Speaker 1: Sure. Well, what's funny too is he gave Rick Ruben
34:54
Speaker 1: a hard time. But Rick Rubin's the guy who talked
34:56
Speaker 1: Tom into bringing Stan Lynch back in because he said, look,
35:00
Speaker 1: you got the greatest hits album. All of the tracks
35:03
Speaker 1: features stand on it because at the time they were
35:05
Speaker 1: working on Wildflowers and Steve FARRONI was already there, I believe,
35:09
Speaker 1: and but but but he's Rick Rubins, the one who said, look,
35:14
Speaker 1: you know a couple of new songs, let's have Stan
35:16
Speaker 1: do him. So he's been difficult to Rick Rubin. Rick
35:20
Speaker 1: Rubins the guy that he's the reason he was there,
35:22
Speaker 1: and and and you know, Stan gets a nice paycheck
35:25
Speaker 1: off that because it hits album. You know, so Steve
35:29
Speaker 1: FARRONI very different style from from Stance, but it worked
35:33
Speaker 1: and Petty loved that direction that sound was going in.
35:36
Speaker 1: And apparently the fans did too, or clearly the fans did,
35:39
Speaker 1: because you don't know how it feels you wreck me.
35:42
Speaker 1: It's good to be king all from Wildflowers, which was
35:45
Speaker 1: a huge success. And you quote heartbreaker Ben Montench in
35:49
Speaker 1: the book. He told journalist David Brown, Tom would always
35:53
Speaker 1: say that's the best album we ever made. Was it
35:56
Speaker 1: the change of the drummer? Was it, Rick Rubin? What
35:58
Speaker 1: do you think that led to Tom being so spot
36:00
Speaker 1: on for that record and reinvigorated.
36:03
Speaker 2: Well, it was a solo record, wasn't it. It was
36:05
Speaker 2: a solo yeah, even though it had a lot of heartbreakers.
36:08
Speaker 1: Again, yeah, his buddies, the heartbreakers are there, including Mike Campbell.
36:13
Speaker 1: Like you say, he was his right hand man.
36:15
Speaker 2: Maybe when he's making a heartbreaker's record, he feels that, Okay,
36:17
Speaker 2: this has to be a heartbreaker's album. Whereas when it's
36:21
Speaker 2: a solo album. He can do what he wants, and
36:23
Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't have Maybe that was a sort
36:25
Speaker 2: of self imposed restriction he had, and he just felt
36:28
Speaker 2: freer to be more creative instead of saying, oh no,
36:31
Speaker 2: that wouldn't be right for the Heartbreakers. But he's not
36:34
Speaker 2: making a Heartbreaker's album, so maybe that was it. I mean,
36:38
Speaker 2: it's actually, yeah, one of the most acclaimed albums of
36:41
Speaker 2: his career.
36:42
Speaker 1: Actually, do you put it up there at the top?
36:45
Speaker 1: I mean, I have friends who say it's his best.
36:47
Speaker 1: I don't think it is, but it's up there for me.
36:51
Speaker 2: I have things like Southern accent for Full Moon Fever better,
36:55
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's up there.
36:56
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, And then he really there was a bunch
36:59
Speaker 1: of song that he didn't include on there that would
37:02
Speaker 1: be released in a deluxe edition version many years later,
37:06
Speaker 1: and some of those songs are outstanding. There's one called
37:12
Speaker 1: It's Got Heaven in the title, and it's I can't
37:16
Speaker 1: recall I don't have my phone, run me here, I
37:18
Speaker 1: could look it up. But yeah, some great stuff on there.
37:21
Speaker 1: But Part four of the book covers the year's nineteen
37:23
Speaker 1: ninety seven to twenty ten. There's a twenty show residency
37:26
Speaker 1: at the Fillmore Another in ninety nine and the Band's
37:30
Speaker 1: on Fire. But there are some demons creeping up on
37:33
Speaker 1: Tom in the nineties, so the people knew him, it
37:35
Speaker 1: was a shock when they learned that he had become
37:37
Speaker 1: addicted to heroin. You cover this period in chapter forty nine.
37:42
Speaker 1: What led to Tom going down that hole and how
37:44
Speaker 1: did he eventually come out of it?
37:46
Speaker 2: Well, I think some of it had to do with
37:48
Speaker 2: the divorce he had around that time, which was definitely
37:51
Speaker 2: painful and somewhat acrimonious. It sounds like yet he had
37:56
Speaker 2: a lot of difficulties and arguments and things with his wife.
37:59
Speaker 2: So that wasn't you know, that wasn't so good. In
38:02
Speaker 2: talking about it, he sounds kind of surprised himself that
38:05
Speaker 2: he ended up in that state, because you know, he
38:09
Speaker 2: never had the reputation as being some wild party man.
38:13
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, drinking and everyone smoked pot. But you know,
38:16
Speaker 2: you never previously read stories of him, you know, running
38:19
Speaker 2: down the street smashing windows or something. He just wasn't
38:22
Speaker 2: that kind of He always seemed like he was too
38:25
Speaker 2: laid back. But from what I know from writing about it,
38:30
Speaker 2: is that heroin seems like a drug that can kind
38:32
Speaker 2: of sneak up on you. Like the first few times
38:35
Speaker 2: are okay and you think, oh, I can handle this,
38:37
Speaker 2: not realizing it's sort of sneaking up and sinking its
38:41
Speaker 2: claws into you. And for a while it seems like
38:46
Speaker 2: it was something that I don't know if he'd say
38:49
Speaker 2: that he was ashamed or embarrassed or a combination of both,
38:52
Speaker 2: but that you know, he didn't really talk about or
38:55
Speaker 2: knowledge it. I think once he got through and put
38:57
Speaker 2: it behind him, he just did not want to dwell
38:59
Speaker 2: on it and go back there. Because when Peter Bugdanovich
39:03
Speaker 2: made the big documentary about him running down a Dream,
39:09
Speaker 2: they talked about it. He apparently talked about his hair
39:11
Speaker 2: when you for the documentary, but then later he insisted
39:15
Speaker 2: that it be cut and not used, so that didn't
39:19
Speaker 2: come out. It wasn't until the Zaynes biography that he
39:22
Speaker 2: talked more about it. I think also he did have
39:24
Speaker 2: a concern that you hear this a lot from some people. Well,
39:27
Speaker 2: I didn't want to glamorize it have people think, oh, wow,
39:31
Speaker 2: that's cool, he did it, I should do it too.
39:33
Speaker 2: Whereas when you read about the circumstances, you know it
39:36
Speaker 2: just does not sound glamorous at all, you know, just
39:39
Speaker 2: hiding in your house and your house falls apart because
39:42
Speaker 2: you're not doing anything, You're just sitting there brooding. So yeah,
39:45
Speaker 2: it doesn't really seem like much to glamorize there. Yeah,
39:49
Speaker 2: he was divorced and it moved and was just living
39:51
Speaker 2: in some It was still in LA but it was
39:54
Speaker 2: one of the Yeah, kind of a more rural part
39:56
Speaker 2: of the area. So yeah, I think he also felt
39:59
Speaker 2: kind of icol. I feel isolated anyway, even if you
40:02
Speaker 2: weren't doing drugs. But heroin is actually a pretty isolating drug.
40:06
Speaker 2: You know, it's not as common you think of, well,
40:09
Speaker 2: pot is being more communal. People pass it joint around, right,
40:12
Speaker 2: but you know, heroin addicts kind of keep to themselves.
40:15
Speaker 1: Sure it's not a party drug.
40:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And they don't want to be around non
40:21
Speaker 2: heroin users any more than a non heroin user wants
40:23
Speaker 2: to be around them. So it's it's almost like the
40:25
Speaker 2: sort of secret society, almost underground.
40:29
Speaker 1: He finally pulled himself out of it, obviously at some
40:32
Speaker 1: point he realized I got to I gotta do something
40:35
Speaker 1: about it, and credit to him he did. By the way,
40:38
Speaker 1: the song Somewhere Under Heaven is the one from the
40:40
Speaker 1: Wildflower session. Okay, oh my god, that songs. How that
40:44
Speaker 1: didn't end up on the original version, I don't know.
40:46
Speaker 1: But if for those listening to this haven't heard that song,
40:49
Speaker 1: give that a listen and tell me that wouldn't have
40:51
Speaker 1: been a huge hit. Somewhere under Heaven He did record
40:54
Speaker 1: Echo from nineteen ninety nine during that period, still a
40:58
Speaker 1: solid album. You've got a few my favorite petty songs
41:01
Speaker 1: on their room at the top and swinging Free Girl
41:03
Speaker 1: Now was another single on that one his last produced
41:06
Speaker 1: by Rick Rubin because he was a little irritated with
41:09
Speaker 1: Rick because he was working. He was leaving the project
41:13
Speaker 1: early to work with the Red Hot Chili Peppers on Calalnication.
41:17
Speaker 1: But you write about how Rick told Tom's daughters about
41:20
Speaker 1: his drug problem. Do you think that also led to
41:22
Speaker 1: the falling out?
41:24
Speaker 2: Well, it may have been part of it. It's really
41:25
Speaker 2: couldn't have helped, right, But you know, I'm sure Rick
41:30
Speaker 2: was just thinking what can I do? He thought that
41:32
Speaker 2: by telling the daughters that the daughters would obviously talk
41:35
Speaker 2: to their father, that might help Tom want to get
41:39
Speaker 2: off drugs. You know, it's hard to know what to
41:42
Speaker 2: do when you're dealing with an addict. So I'm sure
41:45
Speaker 2: they made up eventually, well probably once once Tom got
41:49
Speaker 2: out of all that. You're not thinking straight when you're
41:52
Speaker 2: under the influence of that kind of thing. But yeah,
41:54
Speaker 2: I'm sure he was very unhappy about it. I think
41:58
Speaker 2: what he had a new girl friend by then, and
42:01
Speaker 2: even she didn't know he was on heroin. They weren't
42:03
Speaker 2: living together, which helped.
42:05
Speaker 1: But we know too he lost Howie Epstein to heroin.
42:09
Speaker 1: I think that was how he's drug too, that took
42:12
Speaker 1: him down.
42:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think their Rockhall appearance, when they were inducted
42:16
Speaker 2: at the Rock Hall, I think that was the last
42:18
Speaker 2: time they saw him. Just yeah, it was not in
42:22
Speaker 2: good shape.
42:24
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
42:26
Speaker 1: I want to tell you about an exclusive deal for
42:28
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42:50
Speaker 1: Booked on Rock also find a link in this episode
42:52
Speaker 1: show notes, or just go to booked on Rock dot
42:55
Speaker 1: com and click on my deals. The book covers every
42:58
Speaker 1: important part of Tom's life and his late career. His
43:02
Speaker 1: Hollywood Walk of Fame dedication, his participation in America, A
43:05
Speaker 1: Tribute to Heroes after nine to eleven, the Rock Hall
43:08
Speaker 1: induction that you just mentioned. You covered the two thousand
43:11
Speaker 1: and two album The Last DJ two thousand and six
43:14
Speaker 1: is Highway Companion twenty ten's Mojo, which is one of
43:19
Speaker 1: my favorite albums from Petty's later years. Twenty fourteen, Hypnotic Eye,
43:25
Speaker 1: his thirtieth and fortieth anniversary tours, the Return of Mud Crotch,
43:28
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl Halftime Show. It's all in there. You
43:32
Speaker 1: lead off the chapter on his death with quote, it
43:35
Speaker 1: was a shocking end because it was so sudden and unexpected.
43:40
Speaker 1: Just over a week after the Heartbreakers twenty seventeen tour
43:42
Speaker 1: had ended, Tom was found unconscious at his Malibu home.
43:46
Speaker 1: He was rushed to UCLA Medical Center, but died later
43:48
Speaker 1: that day. He was sixty six years old. I think
43:52
Speaker 1: there is still some clarification needed when you talk about
43:56
Speaker 1: the cause of his death, because some thought he had relapsed,
44:00
Speaker 1: this was more because of physical pain.
44:04
Speaker 2: He was in, Yeah, when we're rehearsing for that final tour,
44:08
Speaker 2: had fallen and said it was a hairline fracture in
44:11
Speaker 2: his hip, and his widow by Van later said that
44:16
Speaker 2: he just he didn't cancel the tour because he didn't
44:19
Speaker 2: want to disappoint the fans, which you know, in retrospect,
44:22
Speaker 2: obviously that's that's quite a mistake, and especially you know,
44:26
Speaker 2: for him, I think his fans would still have been there,
44:29
Speaker 2: of course postponed for a year later, but they probably.
44:32
Speaker 2: But you know, you're rehearsing, so that means you already
44:35
Speaker 2: have things lined up, to a crew, all that kind
44:37
Speaker 2: of thing. And I think maybe he didn't appreciate how
44:43
Speaker 2: serious it could become. And you know, not that I
44:47
Speaker 2: know him, but maybe there's just also some fearing. You
44:49
Speaker 2: don't want to think that it can become serious because
44:51
Speaker 2: medical things are can be scary, and so he just
44:56
Speaker 2: went ahead with it, went ahead with his tour, and
44:58
Speaker 2: that just aggravated the hairline fracture, so it became a
45:02
Speaker 2: break and it was apparently very very painful. Oh, he
45:06
Speaker 2: had a heart. He didn't have the kind of show
45:08
Speaker 2: like you know, a Janet Jackson where you've got a
45:10
Speaker 2: lot of dancing and choreography, but still just being on
45:13
Speaker 2: your feet for two hours plus whatever. You know, that
45:18
Speaker 2: put a strain on it, and his band members would
45:20
Speaker 2: kind of hell. He'd have to lean on them to
45:22
Speaker 2: get on stage. And he just began taking increasing numbers
45:26
Speaker 2: of painkillers and.
45:29
Speaker 1: It was like a toxic combination of things he was.
45:32
Speaker 2: Taking for the paint to relieve that pain. And again
45:36
Speaker 2: I thought, well, since you knew we had this issue,
45:37
Speaker 2: why hadn't he He made arrangements to go into a
45:41
Speaker 2: hospital soon after he stopped touring. I mean, you have
45:45
Speaker 2: all these people around it that can set up that
45:47
Speaker 2: kind of thing, and hip surgery is pretty common. It's
45:51
Speaker 2: in fact, I had a friend that went through it
45:53
Speaker 2: a few years ago. We have his quick recovery. Yeah, yeah,
45:57
Speaker 2: your mom had it.
45:58
Speaker 1: Quick recovery.
45:59
Speaker 2: I mean stays. You're just in the hospital unless there's
46:02
Speaker 2: a complication. You're in the hospital for just a handful
46:05
Speaker 2: of days, not even a week, so it would have
46:08
Speaker 2: been over and done. And yeah, pretty low risk because
46:11
Speaker 2: it's so common, and yeah, they get you up. I
46:13
Speaker 2: saw Benda. They get you up moving right away and
46:16
Speaker 2: you do exercises and things, and wow, what better place
46:20
Speaker 2: to do physical therapy than California? Actually right side and
46:24
Speaker 2: all that. But yeah, I think in the medical examiner's
46:29
Speaker 2: report it looked like he was taking some painkillers that
46:31
Speaker 2: had been prescribed and some he had not. So I
46:34
Speaker 2: think when you do that kind of thing, it's like
46:36
Speaker 2: you're rolling the dice every time you do that. And
46:39
Speaker 2: of course your own body metabolism changes all the time,
46:42
Speaker 2: and I think that explains some sudden deaths like that.
46:48
Speaker 2: You know, the same amount of whatever it was would
46:50
Speaker 2: not have had that effect on your body last week,
46:52
Speaker 2: but this week it does, So that's why your body's
46:55
Speaker 2: changing all the time. Yeah, it wasn't like someone say,
46:59
Speaker 2: who had a lot outstanding drug problem and was in
47:02
Speaker 2: and out of rehab and so when they die, well
47:05
Speaker 2: like Amy winehouse sad death that was yeah, I really
47:10
Speaker 2: liked her stuff. But you know, not surprising, right, You know,
47:14
Speaker 2: when you heard about your death, you're probably oh, that's
47:16
Speaker 2: too bad. But how surprised? Were you?
47:19
Speaker 1: Shocked?
47:19
Speaker 2: Shocked?
47:20
Speaker 1: Mean? Just and every time I hear or read about it,
47:23
Speaker 1: or just hearing you talk about it, it's like, man,
47:24
Speaker 1: if you could just hit the rewind button, go back
47:26
Speaker 1: a day before and say, Tom, don't do it, just
47:31
Speaker 1: get the surgery. You'll be fine.
47:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.
47:33
Speaker 1: Like as a fan, I'd be like, don't worry about it, man,
47:35
Speaker 1: we're going to be here next year when you come back.
47:37
Speaker 2: Like I was saying, Amy's was not a surprise when
47:40
Speaker 2: she died, so horrible to hear about. But when you
47:42
Speaker 2: heard about Tom's that was completely unexpected, and especially since
47:46
Speaker 2: the tour just stopped and ended rather than stopped, and
47:50
Speaker 2: there were the great reviews. You know, it really got
47:52
Speaker 2: out on this high note to think, wow, wow, it
47:54
Speaker 2: was like this triumphant moment. So to hear this later,
47:57
Speaker 2: it was the kind of thing. Well, like I say,
47:59
Speaker 2: about a week later, and there's a kind of thing
48:02
Speaker 2: where you when you first heard it you didn't think
48:04
Speaker 2: it was true. No, no, that can't be right.
48:09
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
48:11
Speaker 1: on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
48:15
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48:18
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48:20
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48:23
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48:29
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Speaker 1: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
48:43
Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
48:46
Speaker 1: to the show. Let's finish with Tom Petty's musical legacy.
48:51
Speaker 1: This is really cool. In the book, you break it
48:53
Speaker 1: down and you talk about his legacy and how the
48:56
Speaker 1: numbers speak for themselves in terms of YouTube views and
49:00
Speaker 1: I streams and sales of his music. I mean, his
49:02
Speaker 1: music is as popular as ever.
49:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you look at the posthumous releases that have
49:07
Speaker 2: come out, and he really appreciate the archives that guy
49:11
Speaker 2: has because they put up these box sets with all
49:14
Speaker 2: this unreleased material, a lot of it. Like you were
49:16
Speaker 2: saying about the Wildflower stuff, like why did this make
49:20
Speaker 2: the main album? There was some B sides for Southern
49:23
Speaker 2: accents that was like that. So yeah, just this wealth
49:26
Speaker 2: of material, the live stuff too, I mean they could
49:29
Speaker 2: probably they could probably start issuing live shows and have
49:33
Speaker 2: those releases go on for years, complete live shows. I mean,
49:36
Speaker 2: because it seems like they taped a.
49:37
Speaker 1: Lot of millions of streams on Spotify, millions of views
49:41
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Still, yeah, his music, it looks like it's
49:44
Speaker 1: going to be around for a long time. Tom Petty
49:47
Speaker 1: The Life and Music. The book is out now. You
49:49
Speaker 1: can find out wherever books are sold and look forward
49:51
Speaker 1: at your nearest bookstore. Bookdown rock dot com is where
49:54
Speaker 1: you can go to find your nearest independent bookstore. And
49:57
Speaker 1: Jillian people can find you online where.
50:00
Speaker 2: Uh, let's see, I have a Facebook page that's Jillian
50:03
Speaker 2: gar Writer, just all one word with no spaces, and
50:08
Speaker 2: that's I guess they call it a fan page. You know,
50:10
Speaker 2: you don't send a friend request or anything. And I'm
50:14
Speaker 2: on Twitter or x and Blue Sky with just.
50:19
Speaker 1: My name Jillian. Thanks again for coming on and congratulations
50:23
Speaker 1: on this book. As you can tell, I'm a huge
50:26
Speaker 1: time Petty fan. So I love talking about every book
50:29
Speaker 1: that you've written that I've had John for. Here, You've
50:31
Speaker 1: done the Queen book, that Springsteen book, Elton John I
50:35
Speaker 1: had John for.
50:36
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a long time ago. So this has been
50:38
Speaker 2: a couple of years.
50:39
Speaker 1: Then yep, that's it. Yeah, Jillian, thanks again.
50:42
Speaker 2: Well, thank you had a great time.
50:51
Speaker 1: That's it. It's in the books.