Latest / The Grammar of Classical Education / Book Recommendation & Discussion - The Liberal Arts Tradition #4

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Book Recommendation & Discussion - The Liberal Arts Tradition #4 · The Grammar of Classical Education

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Hello,
0:08
SPEAKER_00: welcome to the Grammar of Classical Education,
0:13
SPEAKER_00: a podcast that covers the foundations as well as the philosophical and theoretical
0:20
SPEAKER_00: ideas of classical learning in a user-friendly and,
0:25
SPEAKER_00: may I even say,
0:27
SPEAKER_00: interesting way.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr. Darlene Gomes from Leading to Wonder, and I'm so glad that you could join me today.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: I have been so excited to get to this point in our discussion of the liberal arts tradition.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Once I began unpacking the idea of gymnastic and musical elements of Kevin Clark
0:56
SPEAKER_00: and Robbie Jane's format in the PG Mapped,
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I came to two very amazing insights.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Number one,
1:08
SPEAKER_00: the terminology of the grammar of classical education being the foundational
1:17
SPEAKER_00: elements of education is,
1:19
SPEAKER_00: well,
1:20
SPEAKER_00: kind of wrong.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh dear, does that mean that the very title of my podcast is wrong?
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, after a few days of sheer panic and further reading in the liberal arts tradition,
1:39
SPEAKER_00: I decided that it isn't exactly wrong.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: It just may need to be reframed a little bit.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: As Clark and Jane describe it a bit later in the book, while grammar is very much, as
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Grammar and the ability to read,
2:04
SPEAKER_00: write,
2:05
SPEAKER_00: and speak,
2:06
SPEAKER_00: all of the skills that it enables,
2:09
SPEAKER_00: actually are the means by which we gain greater knowledge and,
2:16
SPEAKER_00: as they say,
2:17
SPEAKER_00: quote,
2:18
SPEAKER_00: provides a direction to our intellectual effort and
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SPEAKER_00: and as such, provides a vital link between piety, moral philosophy, and theology.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: So,
2:35
SPEAKER_00: all of that to say,
2:37
SPEAKER_00: our podcast title of The Grammar of Classical Education,
2:44
SPEAKER_00: while it isn't necessarily the foundational elements of classical education,
2:52
SPEAKER_00: It really is indeed allowing us to use the authors or as Clark and Jane referred to them,
3:02
SPEAKER_00: the authorities in the field that will give us a storehouse of experience from
3:10
SPEAKER_00: which we can improve our teaching.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to change the name of my podcast after all.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: The second major insight will take us a bit longer to unpack,
3:26
SPEAKER_00: but I have to tell you that I found it so incredibly interesting.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: As I said,
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Clark and Jane's book is such an amazing presentation of the liberal arts tradition
3:41
SPEAKER_00: that I again have to encourage you to get a copy of it for yourself.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Not only do they do a wonderful job of presenting their researched vision of the
3:54
SPEAKER_00: liberal arts education,
3:56
SPEAKER_00: but they do an exceptional job of citing their sources.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: One such resource that they mentioned several times was James Taylor's book Poetic Knowledge.
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SPEAKER_00: Their mention came in the context of gymnastic and musical training and having an
4:18
SPEAKER_00: entire book devoted to a topic that Clark and Jane mentioned,
4:25
SPEAKER_00: but that I really wanted to fully grasp was like offering me a treasure map of
4:34
SPEAKER_00: with a great big huge axe and adding wonderful pictures of exactly what was inside the treasure box.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Off I was on my treasure hunt and thus into a marvelously deep researching rabbit hole.
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SPEAKER_00: I just can't wait to take you on my adventure, at least part of my adventure today.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: If you read Clark and Jane's section on gymnastic and musical training,
5:10
SPEAKER_00: it will give you a pretty clear picture.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: But if like me,
5:16
SPEAKER_00: It just whets your appetite to know more,
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SPEAKER_00: to see what poetic knowledge looks like in a classroom or in a homeschool setting,
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SPEAKER_00: and exactly how we can teach more poetry.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: poetically.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: To get into it,
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SPEAKER_00: last week we covered the physical element or gymnastic training that is needed to
5:43
SPEAKER_00: help our students learn to control their bodies.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: But for me, the musical training was a little harder to grasp.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: It seemed to go just a little deeper.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: And as promised, I will be getting back to why piety has to be the foundational element.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Why Clark and Jane started the PG Mapped with P, piety.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: And while they start with piety in their book, we're gonna take a look at it in reverse order.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: We've looked at gymnastic training and today we're going to start to look at
6:26
SPEAKER_00: musical training or poetic knowledge that will lead us directly into why piety
6:37
SPEAKER_00: absolutely must be the foundational element.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: Clark and Jane begin their section on musical training with this quote by Plato, quote,
6:51
SPEAKER_00: Musical training is a more potent instrument than any other because rhythm and
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SPEAKER_00: harmony find their way into the inward places of the soul on which they mightily fasten,
7:07
SPEAKER_00: imparting grace.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: End of quote.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: But he then goes on in that quote to explain what work the musical education has done.
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SPEAKER_00: And then Plato finishes his quote with,
7:24
SPEAKER_00: quote,
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SPEAKER_00: and when reason comes,
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SPEAKER_00: he,
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SPEAKER_00: the student,
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SPEAKER_00: will recognize and salute the friend with whom his education has made him long familiar.
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SPEAKER_00: In other words,
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SPEAKER_00: it is the musical education that prepares the soul like gymnastic education
7:51
SPEAKER_00: prepares the body.
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SPEAKER_00: Or
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SPEAKER_00: As Clark and Jane put it, quote, musical education is soul craft.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Before we go any further,
8:03
SPEAKER_00: I think we really need to clarify because I needed it clarified what musical
8:10
SPEAKER_00: education is not.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: It is not musical in the sense of notes and rhythms and tempos and key signatures.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: It is,
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SPEAKER_00: as Clark and Jane describe in one of their footnotes,
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SPEAKER_00: quote,
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SPEAKER_00: the education of the muses,
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SPEAKER_00: end quote.
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SPEAKER_00: And James Taylor says of the muses that they, quote, introduce the young to
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SPEAKER_00: to reality through delight.
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SPEAKER_00: It is the total education,
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SPEAKER_00: including the heart,
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SPEAKER_00: the memory and passions and imagination,
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SPEAKER_00: as well as the body and intelligence.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And that quote by Taylor had me hooked.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: In his book, Poetic Knowledge, James Taylor takes a look at the history of poetic knowledge.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: And while I would love to spend some time looking at these elements,
9:16
SPEAKER_00: for the sake of those of you who may not be quite as impassioned in the topic as I am,
9:23
SPEAKER_00: I will try to keep it short and simple.
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SPEAKER_00: Poetic knowledge is best seen when you compare it to scientific knowledge.
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SPEAKER_00: Basically,
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SPEAKER_00: the difference being poetic knowledge is based in the working together of the
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SPEAKER_00: senses and the emotion in context of reality.
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SPEAKER_00: Scientific knowledge is analyzing and examining reality.
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SPEAKER_00: The poetic knowledge is felt and perceived.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: It creates a sense of wonder and awe.
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SPEAKER_00: And while it does have a seat in emotions, it is still very much established in reality.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So I don't want you to think that poetic knowledge is all the fluffy feelings and
10:22
SPEAKER_00: those delight and wonder.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: But it's not just that.
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SPEAKER_00: It is grounded in reality and using those senses to
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SPEAKER_00: to attract and draw in the emotion.
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SPEAKER_00: Scientific knowledge does not involve that same type of draw in.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Scientific knowledge is aiming at the head.
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SPEAKER_00: Poetic knowledge is aiming for the heart.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Now,
10:58
SPEAKER_00: they are both going to use senses,
11:00
SPEAKER_00: but the senses for scientific knowledge is more just the observation.
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SPEAKER_00: What does it touch?
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SPEAKER_00: How does it feel?
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SPEAKER_00: As far as soft, is it hard?
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SPEAKER_00: The more scientific terms, whereas the poetic is using it as a whole.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Taylor makes the comparison that science knows something from the outside in,
11:26
SPEAKER_00: where poetic knowledge knows something from the inside out.
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SPEAKER_00: Clark and Jane referred to that as, quote, seeing it as a whole.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Think of it this way.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: We want our students through their educational career to complete this huge,
11:49
SPEAKER_00: beautiful 10,000 piece puzzle.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Scientific knowledge would dump the puzzle pieces out in front of the students,
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SPEAKER_00: throw the box to the side and have the students learn to look at each piece carefully,
12:07
SPEAKER_00: examine the shape,
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SPEAKER_00: examine the color.
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SPEAKER_00: begin to try to fit the puzzle pieces together one at a time,
12:17
SPEAKER_00: trial and error,
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SPEAKER_00: compared with poetic knowledge,
12:24
SPEAKER_00: which would spend a good deal of time admiring the picture on the box.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: What a beautiful lake.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: Hey,
12:37
SPEAKER_00: It looks like the water changes colors underneath the tree over there.
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SPEAKER_00: I wonder why.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Hey, the grass changes color under the tree too.
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SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Whoa, those clouds look so fluffy.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: I bet it's a perfect day in that picture because those clouds are called cumulus
13:04
SPEAKER_00: clouds and they are usually around when it is a clear and sunny day.
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SPEAKER_00: Let's go look out the window and see if our clouds match.
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SPEAKER_00: Now,
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SPEAKER_00: this enjoying of the picture may seem extremely counterintuitive to the goal of
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SPEAKER_00: putting together a puzzle,
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SPEAKER_00: because it feels like we aren't actually doing anything.
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SPEAKER_00: But when you finally do dump the puzzle out,
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SPEAKER_00: and leave the picture there in front of them to continue to enjoy they are going to
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SPEAKER_00: be more than ready to recreate that picture now that they've had the time to
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SPEAKER_00: explore it they're going to know what they're seeing is a whole
14:03
SPEAKER_00: And how each piece can fit into that.
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SPEAKER_00: They are not merely looking at shapes and trying to make them fit.
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SPEAKER_00: They're going to recognize patterns and colors of each piece.
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SPEAKER_00: Now with that,
14:22
SPEAKER_00: we have to understand that poetic knowledge has taken the time to get a good
14:30
SPEAKER_00: picture using their senses to get a good picture in their head so they can recreate
14:38
SPEAKER_00: a picture.
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SPEAKER_00: Scientific knowledge is saying, examine and put pieces in your head
14:48
SPEAKER_00: without really understanding the big picture.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: Going back to that scientific group, will they eventually put the puzzle together?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Will they enjoy doing it?
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SPEAKER_00: Probably not as much.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: There was one quote that really stood out to me in Taylor's book.
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SPEAKER_00: He said, quote, we don't just learn about something.
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SPEAKER_00: We simultaneously learn how we feel as we learn.
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SPEAKER_00: That is so crucial for teachers to remember.
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SPEAKER_00: We aren't just teaching the students facts.
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SPEAKER_00: You are teaching them how they feel about those facts and actually then how they feel about learning.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: To help solidify this just a little bit better for you,
15:52
SPEAKER_00: let's take a couple of quick looks at real classroom examples.
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SPEAKER_00: One from Taylor and one from my time in the classroom.
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SPEAKER_00: Taylor uses his example of studying music,
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SPEAKER_00: which again,
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SPEAKER_00: remember,
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SPEAKER_00: musical knowledge is not just all centered around music,
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SPEAKER_00: but this one really does help you to see the difference.
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SPEAKER_00: You could have several charts and graphs and a long discussion about rhythm and meter.
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SPEAKER_00: You could count out beats and measures.
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SPEAKER_00: You can compare different notes that are written on the board.
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SPEAKER_00: But what if in that same musical class, while you're learning about rhythm and meter,
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SPEAKER_00: You have the students clapping and hopping to the different meters and then show them on the board.
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SPEAKER_00: Taylor encourages taking the time for actual singing and dancing,
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SPEAKER_00: allowing time for the students to actually,
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SPEAKER_00: quote,
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SPEAKER_00: become the music.
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SPEAKER_00: That's poetic knowledge as opposed to
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Simple chart.
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SPEAKER_00: Here is the beads.
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SPEAKER_00: Here are the measures.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Here are the notes.
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SPEAKER_00: They sit and listen or they experience it.
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SPEAKER_00: If they are doing and enjoying, will they always cover as much information?
17:23
SPEAKER_00: No, but will they enjoy it and get to know it deep within their little bodies?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Will they remember the information more after a lecture-based lesson or after an experience?
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SPEAKER_00: You are creating what Taylor calls sympathetic knowledge.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: putting them inside the information,
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SPEAKER_00: exploring the good and the beautiful for themselves,
17:56
SPEAKER_00: not just vicariously through your words and through your experiences.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to put a little caveat here.
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SPEAKER_00: Your words and your experiences are necessary, but that should not be their only conduit of learning.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: It will look different as students get older, but the principle is still the same.
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SPEAKER_00: Taylor explains it this way, poetic knowledge isn't outgrown or forgotten.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: It really does go back to what Clark and Jane stated about our Christian anthropology.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: How we view man as God's creation affects our teaching philosophy.
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SPEAKER_00: According to Taylor,
18:46
SPEAKER_00: seeing poetic learning as outgrown comes from a belief that man is basically a machine.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: His mind, his body and his soul are all compartmentalized.
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SPEAKER_00: So the care to teach poetically in the lower grammar school,
19:07
SPEAKER_00: which can be easily seen in the example of living the subjects,
19:13
SPEAKER_00: are really simpler when they're little and ready to dance and pretend.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: And well, you then have to ask yourself, well, what about the older students?
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Based on Taylor's premise that the deepest scientific thought begins with simple
19:30
SPEAKER_00: poetic observations that draw the student into wonder,
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SPEAKER_00: the older students are still open to that possibility.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: It just will look a little different.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: In a fifth grade history class,
19:47
SPEAKER_00: American history,
19:48
SPEAKER_00: we were getting ready to study the three branches of government.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: We had actually spent one whole day talking through the branches,
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SPEAKER_00: each branch's responsibility and its limitations.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Technically, my job of giving them the puzzle pieces had been completed.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: but they were just a pile of puzzle pieces.
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SPEAKER_00: They weren't connected, definitely not anything memorable or captivating to their soul.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I knew they kind of got the idea, but it wasn't hooked on anything inside.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: So the next day, instead of doing just a generic review, I
20:30
SPEAKER_00: I divided the class into groups.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: We had an executive branch.
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SPEAKER_00: That's me.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: I was the president.
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SPEAKER_00: We had a legislative branch made up of the Senate, eight students, two from each row.
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SPEAKER_00: elected by the row, just like the Senate is by the state.
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SPEAKER_00: And we had the House.
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SPEAKER_00: Nine students, two boys, seven girls.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: The class had a bigger girl population.
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SPEAKER_00: All of those students were elected by the population.
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SPEAKER_00: And we had our judicial branch, our Supreme Court.
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SPEAKER_00: Five students who actually I had talked to the day before and had given each of
21:17
SPEAKER_00: them a portion of the school handbook.
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SPEAKER_00: So they were able to get very familiar with their small little packet of pages.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: They had to know their packet inside and out.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: And that year, it was a big class.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: So I had two reporters who were able to be everywhere.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: There was discussion and they could ask for interviews when people were not discussing.
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SPEAKER_00: The only place that the reporters were not allowed to go was the Supreme Court discussion.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: And the Supreme Court members could choose to answer interview questions or not.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Actually,
21:58
SPEAKER_00: based on our discussion the day before,
22:00
SPEAKER_00: we talked about how usually they don't give their own opinion.
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SPEAKER_00: It's as a group until they have the final.
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SPEAKER_00: So none of my Supreme Court members accepted the request to interview.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Already, we had the political juices running.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: And really,
22:22
SPEAKER_00: we started out with a lot of great discussion,
22:26
SPEAKER_00: especially why the Senate and House members needed to vote with their constituents
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SPEAKER_00: in mind and why the Supreme Court members may choose not to grant interviews.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Some great questions on a fifth grade level.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: actually seeing how this would work in real life.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Well,
22:46
SPEAKER_00: I really wish I could share with you the joy of watching a bill try to get passed
22:54
SPEAKER_00: through both legislative branches.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Talk about learning to compromise.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: It was a hoot to see them send me a bill saying everyone got popcorn and candy while watching a
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Of course, I vetoed that.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Who would be paying for said popcorn and movie?
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Would they want to tax everybody to get the money we needed?
23:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
23:22
SPEAKER_00: they realized that wasn't going to work,
23:24
SPEAKER_00: and that lesson maybe needs to go to our current government,
23:28
SPEAKER_00: but...
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Moving right along, they finally got a bill to my desk and I signed it into law.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: They would get to wear their socks for the afternoon and could bring a special
23:44
SPEAKER_00: treat from home to eat during the short video that we would be watching.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell them,
23:50
SPEAKER_00: but I had actually already planned to watch the video as we had finished the book
23:55
SPEAKER_00: and the movie is definitely not as good as the book.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: which was an excellent reason to watch part of the movie after reading the book.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, I honestly thought we were all good until it moved to the Supreme Court.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: They had been digging through their student handbooks the entire time the back and
24:15
SPEAKER_00: forth with the legislation was going on.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: They had heard what the ideas were from each side.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: They started digging and
24:25
SPEAKER_00: They were taking their responsibilities so seriously.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: We had previously discussed how they were to base their decision,
24:35
SPEAKER_00: not on their own opinion,
24:37
SPEAKER_00: but on the constitution or the student handbook and legal precedent,
24:44
SPEAKER_00: previous decisions that had been made.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: And after some deliberation, they asked if they could go down and check something with the school office.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, not at all sure of what they were thinking.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Everything seemed fine with me and the bill.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: So all of the rest of us just sat there in limbo waiting for their final decision.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: The reporters took the opportunity for their final interviews and began writing
25:13
SPEAKER_00: their stories while we waited.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: And finally, the Supreme Court came.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: came back with their decision the law as it was received by them was unconstitutional
25:27
SPEAKER_00: What?
25:28
SPEAKER_00: I very calmly asked them to give us the reasons and the elected Chief Justice,
25:35
SPEAKER_00: he was the oldest one on the court,
25:37
SPEAKER_00: spoke for the whole group saying that the Constitution said that students should be
25:44
SPEAKER_00: in dress code during the school day.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: And while it does not specifically say shoes are included in dress code,
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Because shoes are described as part of what is student clothing,
25:59
SPEAKER_00: it can be assumed that they are part of student uniform.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: And the importance of shoes had been set by legal precedent of a few years earlier
26:12
SPEAKER_00: when a kindergartner did not have his shoes on when there was a fire drill and he
26:17
SPEAKER_00: was forced to go out socking footing.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: He could have been injured and they did not feel that that was a risk that they were willing to accept.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: My goodness.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: The bill went back through the Senate and the House,
26:32
SPEAKER_00: amended to take out the socks only and adding in its place that they could bring a
26:36
SPEAKER_00: pillow or blanket.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: I signed it.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: It was declared constitutional by the Supreme Court and we celebrated the next day.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Quick caveat that I did discuss with my students.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Nobody would have objected to us doing exactly what the bill said.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: And that's usually what sends things to the Supreme Court.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: So therefore, we did jump a step and let it go to the Supreme Court.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: We discussed that so the students understood how it worked in the real world.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: Did they now have a better grasp of the three branches of government?
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Did they get engaged with the learning?
27:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: When they came back around to being tested on the three branches of government, they were rock solid.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: And later,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: when they would cover the three branches of government in upper school,
27:40
SPEAKER_00: they would have the memory of what they did in fifth grade
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Jump back to the surface.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Now I pause here and say, can every lesson be just like that?
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Do you need to bring out the horse and pony show for every single lesson?
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: That was just one example out of the many that did not look like that.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: But what I hope that it does is show you that poetic learning and teaching is
28:19
SPEAKER_00: really a mindset where you look at a lesson and you ask yourself,
28:26
SPEAKER_00: how can I bring this out of the cold,
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SPEAKER_00: harsh,
28:32
SPEAKER_00: facts of just scientific learning and turn it into an inviting poetic learning experience.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, I hope as we continue to look at poetic knowledge and poetic teaching,
28:50
SPEAKER_00: you'll get a better vision of how this can work in your classroom and some of the
28:56
SPEAKER_00: obstacles that you're going to face.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: I want you to see it's not just activity in your classroom.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: It is a mindset of you as a teacher that you pass on to your students.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: As we look in a little more detail at Taylor's view of poetic knowledge,
29:18
SPEAKER_00: You'll hopefully get a firmer grasp on the gymnastic and musical training,
29:25
SPEAKER_00: and that will feed into why the foundation of piety matters.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Next week,
29:33
SPEAKER_00: we will hopefully wrap up our deep dive into poetic knowledge and poetic teaching
29:40
SPEAKER_00: and continue moving through the PG-mapped format of the liberal arts tradition.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: So whether you are all in with classical ed,
29:54
SPEAKER_00: or you're just kind of curious,
29:58
SPEAKER_00: or even you just want to be a better teacher,
30:04
SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll stick around and join us for this next podcast.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: To get the latest episode,
30:14
SPEAKER_00: as well as a fun little teacher's newsletter,
30:18
SPEAKER_00: complete with a couple of classroom freebies,
30:22
SPEAKER_00: please sign up for the Leading to Wonder newsletter.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Or you can subscribe to the podcast directly on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: To learn more about me and Leading to Wonder, you can visit my website at leadingtowonder.com.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: No spaces.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: And finally, to reach out to me directly with questions or comments or
31:01
SPEAKER_00: even for information regarding in-house or virtual teacher training workshops,
31:08
SPEAKER_00: feel free to email me at Darlene at leadingtowonder.com.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Have an amazing week.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: And remember, as E.B.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: White said, always be on the lookout for the presence of wonder.