Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: Nicole Brown Simpson’s Ex Speaks: Keith Zlomsowitch on What He Saw That No One Else Knew

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Killer Thriller: Nicole Brown Simpson’s Ex Speaks: Keith Zlomsowitch on What He Saw That No One Else Knew · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, welcome back to Killer Thriller. We are picking
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: up my conversation with Keith Zalamsowitch Nicole Brown, Simpson's former boyfriend,
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: who pulls back the curtain on what OJ Simpson was
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: really like behind closed doors, from chilling personal encounters to
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: the moments that never made it on screen. Keith breaks
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: down what the people versus O. J. Simpson American crime
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: story nailed and what it completely missed.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: You know all of this.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I should also mention our podcast studio in Brentwood is
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: directly between Rockingham and Bundy and Gretna Green is like right,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Super close by also, so it's one of these.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Things where you you know, I don't know, every time
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: I go there, I feel it.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the Bronco Chase.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Were you watching that in the same way that we
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: all were as spectators of this spectacle?
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Like I could not believe it.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: I was visiting Los Angeles, I lived in New York City.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: I was in LA working with my agency for a
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: couple of weeks, and I was like, what the hell
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: is going on here? Like Wow, like, what is wrong
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: with Los Angeles? Why are they allowing this to happen?
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: And it also interrupted the Knicks game, the championship game,
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: which I was upset about.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: My New York friends weren't happy about that.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: No, I was not at.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: The chase story is a whole other thing that I
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: had never talked about until I wrote this book. But
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give you the short story of it,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: and hopefully the readers will delve into it more. But
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: if you remember the Bronco chase and his ultimate arrest
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: was the day after the funeral, Yes, well, I've got
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: all these emotions going on the day of the funeral,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: and I started to tell you. That's when I pulled
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: her mother and one of the sisters into her room
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: at the house and said, I need to go to
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the police. I need to tell them what I know.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: And they gave me their blessing and I said, I
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: need to know two things. Do you think he did it?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And they said yes, and I have your blessing and
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: they said yes. I went forward with my information. But
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: moving forward to the Bronco chase the next day we
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: had talked about at the Brown's house that day that
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the next day. We were going to meet at the
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Bundy condo where the murders took place, and we were
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: going to start packaging up Nicole's private stuffing it up,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: inventoring it, getting it out. You know. The place was
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: surrounded by media.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Oh god, it was It was crazy.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: So I was staying at my friend Ron Hardy's house,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: which was two blocks away from Bundy right here. Nicole
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: and Ron and Nick were really close friends. I met
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Ron through Nick, so I had flown out. We were
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: both Paul Bert. So I was staying at Ron's house. Well,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I slept a little later than Ron did that morning
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: because I had been four days with no sleep since
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I found Yeah, so I slept an hour or two later,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: So I was a little late getting over to the
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Bundy condo. Ron was already there with the family and
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: they were inside. So as I was walking up, I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: came around the alley. The police knew who I was,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: so they let me through. So I came up the
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: alleyway to go in the back entrance of the house
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to help them, and all of a sudden I hear
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: screaming out of the top window and I look up
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: and it's Denise Nix's older sister, and she's screamed me, Keith, Keith,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: get out of here, just go, just go, just leave,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: just leave. And I'm like flabbergasted. And Ron sticks his
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: head out the window and screams the same thing at me, basically,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So I didn't ask any questions. I just turned and
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I ran down the alleyway and went back to Ron's house.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: So remember no cell phones. So I'm sitting there on
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: pins and needles for about an hour, not knowing what's
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: going on, what could have caused that. And Ron finally
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: came over to the house and was just shaking his
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: head and he's like, man, He's like, just as you
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: were walking up, the phone rings and it's OJ on
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: the phone, and he said, I'm all my way over
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: there to finish what I started. No what, And nobody
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: knows this, Like I said I write about in the book,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: nobody knows at that point if he means he's coming
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: to kill me. He just stood next to me at
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: the funeral when he hugged and kissed every pallbearer, wouldn't
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: make eye contact with me. You know, he's still thinking
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: about me. So we didn't know if that many was
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: coming over to kill me, coming over to kill them,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: coming over to kill himself. In the heat of the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: moment in real time, nobody knew what that meant, but
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: it was just as I was walking up to the condo.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: So now we're back at Ron's house and we're looking
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: at each other, going what the hell is going on?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: We turn on the TV and there's gil Garcetti. OJ
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: is now a wanted man. He's a fugitive from justice.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: He's on the run. We're actively seeking him. Blah blah
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. So we're glued to the TV and
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: within an hour or whatever it was, someone spots him.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Then the whole slow chase begins. So we're at Bundy,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: right close enough to Rockingham, Yeah, Nicole's house, watching the
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: whole thing take place on TV as it basically goes
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: right by us on the four h five. Oh my god,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: just head spinning.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: I don't think we really as you know, people just
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: watching it like spectators didn't really understand just how backwards
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: all of this is. The fact that he was allowed
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: to quote turn himself in. There were so many things
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: that he was just given carte blanche because he was
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: so famous and such a celebrity, and so.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Many things happened. He got to go home and call
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: his mommy.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: That's all well documented in the series. I mean they
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: did a good job.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Of doctu You think that's accurate. I was going to
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: ask those things.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I think that's pretty accurate from my understanding. The one
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: thing I think they got wrong is there was no
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: grand jury testimony. They didn't go in and pull Marsha
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: out of a grand jury testimony when OJ was on
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: the run. Grand jury was two days later. Because I
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: was in the grand jury got so he's already been
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: arrested for that, So they may have gotten a few
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: of the details. But they documented their screw up pretty good. Yeah,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: we're aware that they should have never let that happen.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: He should have been arrested like anybody else who was
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: wanting for double murder instead of being allowed to turn
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: himself in. Right, it was a I'm sure Gilgozetti and
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the whole DA's office regretted making that choice.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I think they probably have a few regrets.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, did you What did you think about Kuba Gooding
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Junior his performance as OJ.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I think it was good. I think all the acting
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: in the series was pretty good. I watched it more
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: for content, sure, and anything else, so I kind of
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: focused on some of the details a little more. It
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: was interesting to to realize, you know, because ultimately I
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: never testified in the main trial.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: That's what I was going to ask. So they didn't
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: ask you to testify.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they asked me to testify. I testified for
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: the grand jury. I was put under sapoena. They told
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: me I was going to be the first witness, told
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: me to go hide, don't sell your story, which I
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: never had. In New York. I got offered a million
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: dollars in cash on two occasions.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: That's another part that this was sort of the start
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: of all of that where people that getting paid to
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: tell their stories and like a current Affair and all
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: these things where people were monetizing.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Barbara Walters was calling me, Countie Chung was calling sixty minutes,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: was calling me the biggest of the biggest, and the
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: usual suspects State and all that kind of stuff. It
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: was interesting to see how they focused were focusing on
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: my testimony because it was all about domestic violence until
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: the racial card got played, and as soon as everything
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: flips on that, it became more focused about the racial
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: animis in Los Angeles and the cops reputation because I
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: lived there, I lived through the La riots is when
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Cole and I were together. You know, I actually sent
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: those nights in the house, slept in the guest room
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: the only nights I slept over there, so I could
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: protect her in case something happened. But if you watch
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: the series, you see how the main focus of evidence
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: was going to be domestic violence and stalking, and then
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: they had to switch on a dime. So the earlier
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: is they had me under subpoena to testify in the
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: main trial, told me I was going to be the
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: first witness, sent me home to Florida where I was
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: hiding out avoiding the media, flew me out to be
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: the first witness in the trial. Decided last minute that
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: they were going to put Denise Brown on first because
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: she had domestic violence evidence as well. So they put
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Denise on the witness stand. She ran long several days
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: on the witness stand, and they got a lot of
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: information at her. And the way they explained it to
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: me was we got a lot out of Denise, not
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: as much as you know, more than we were thinking
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: we were going to get so we're going to behave
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: you Keith until the end. We're going to with domestic violence,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: and we have to close with domestic violence being the
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: strong point of their trial, the emotional point what they
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: thought the jury would attached to. You know, they knew
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: it was going to be a long DNA process where
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: it was going to be boring and tedious for the
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So they thought open with a band, closed with a bang.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: So they explained it to me that way. So they said,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: go home standard subpoena, don't talk to anybody. We're going
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: to bring you back to close it out. Well, we
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: all kind of know what happened with Furman and everything
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: else that transpired during that. And then the caveat is
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the defense called me as a witness.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: You're kidding.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: The poened me, took me into court in Florida where
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I was sort of hiding out, forced me to go
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: into court under subpoena to bring me out as a
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: defense witness.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: In what capacity? What did they think you were going
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to say?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: You're going to explain that to you, because it's crazy.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't you know. I I knew they were never
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: really going to put me on and I didn't fight
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: the subpoena because in my mind I was like, go ahead,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: put me on, because that's going to allow the prosecution
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: to ask me a lot more stuff they could have
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: on direct testimony. So they sort of put out tidbits
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: to the newspaper about their theory of why they were
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: going to call me as a witness, and this is
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: what it was. Their theory was, well, OJ watched you
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: having sex with his wife through the window and didn't
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: kill you. How could he be this jealous, murderous guy.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: And OJ reached out and shook your hand after watching
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: that and didn't kill you. How could he be this
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: horrible guy?
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: He didn't have the opportunity at that point, and I
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: don't think things had gotten as drastic in his mind
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: at that point, would be my answer. But the defense
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: was doing it basically as a ploy in the public.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: They wanted to be to pick up on it and
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: so we're not afraid of this guy. Well, when it
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: got to the end of the trial, I think the
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: prosecution sort of threw up their hands, and the series
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: does a very good documentation of this. It got torn
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: into a racial battle. I mean, it became not about evidence,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: not about right or wrong or domestic violence. It became
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: simply about race. Right. Prosecution realized at that point nothing
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I could say, and they were going to change. And
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: did you notice how they focused on the jury and
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: what each one was thinking. Yes, yes, Then they took
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: each one by name, Well, this is what we have
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: to do with this one, and this is what we
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: need this one. I found that interesting because I think
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: what they were trying to say, in a roundabout way
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: is my testimony might have hurt them at the end
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: because of the race. Right.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is the part that is so again
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: heartbreaking and just shocking to just try to metabolize that
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: because it was kind of the perfect storm. They took
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: advantage of a moment in Los Angeles that was very
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: real and very Rodney King being beaten to and.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: The riots all of it.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: That was very real and people were enraged and rightfully so.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: But this had nothing to do with race.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: This in Los Angeles at the time of the riots
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: or were you.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Used to know? I was in New York. I was
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: in New York City.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I tell you it was scary.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: It was scary in New York.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: We I was working in a bar and they shut
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: like that open you know, we would open up four
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: or three and they shut down everything because people were
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: running in the streets and like there was a mini
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: there were many riots going on in New York.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Sort of yeah, I didn't realize that, but LA was
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: scary and you knew it, and you knew the police
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: were wrong and knew that they had made other mistakes
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: in the pavement. And when you watch the series that
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: we're talking about people versus O. J. Simpson, they do
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: a good job of documenting how Furman had those issues
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: and they were well known in the LAPD YEP. Chris,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Chris tried to keep him from going on the witness stand.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: You see that whole bat between him and Marsha. Yes,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: if they had not put him on, maybe there's a
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: different outcome. But it opened the door for the defense
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: to play that card with all their might.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: And to play those tapes and the amount of times
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: him using the N word all that you just you.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Can't and hear it.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: You can't put it the toothpaste bag in the tube,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: like it's just too bad. I but again this brings
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: us back to how again Nicole gets lost in the holes.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: They pushed aside. I mean, I don't even think they
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: show in the series.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: I don't even think they don't show her family very much.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Her sister is on the stand, but they don't even
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: really talk about her, and it's it's just.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It's so disturbing.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: It is. And I understand a little bit on that
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: series because it was focusing on the trial and ojib right, right,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, give give her the credit that she deserves
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and show what kind of human beings she was. And
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: like I said, and Ron Goldman as well, they just
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: do that, and they do in any of the documentaries. Really,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, the sisters have done some great things to
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: bring attention to Nicole's life and her memory. So I'm
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: happy for that.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: So did you This is what I was going to ask.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Did you go to the courtroom at all?
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Were you in in the courtroom during the trial.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Well, that's another thing I read about in the book.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to. I wasn't allowed to watch it
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: on TV.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: You're kidding, I was understand because you were supposed to.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, yes, great, So I did. I mean,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: I'm sure some witnesses don't abide by that, but I
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: was doing everything by the book. I didn't sell my story.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't watch the trial. I wanted to be a number.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to open myself up for any scrutiny
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: or criticism. I wanted to put that guy away with
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: every ounce right I have in my soul. So I
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: did the right thing. So it took me years after
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the trial to educate myself to wow, find out. You
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: know I write about in the book, it would take
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: you six months, twelve hours a day, seven days a
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: week to watch the trial if you just sat down
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: to watch, and then there's a backstory for every witness,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: every piece of evidence, every witness that ended up not
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: getting called. There's a backstory to everything. There's a whole
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: It took years to learn about it.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I bet it was really I think it was the
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: first time, or one of the first time. I think
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: it was the first time that they allowed cameras in
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: the courtroom, which just turns everything upside down, right to
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: a degree where you can't when a camera is on you.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: It's it just it changes everything for everyone. Yes, it's performative, right.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And people act differently than they would behind closed doors. Yes,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: make sure you can't blame people for that's how they are.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Of course. How did you feel when you heard the verdict? Well,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: did you watch that live?
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I did. I actually did watch that live, and I
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: think I had kind of prepared myself, knowing the makeup
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: of the jury and how it had turned into a
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: racial component and some of the things that Johnny Cochran
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: was pushing, and I could see it. I could see it.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I would. I was optimistic that they would rise above
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: that and that they would take the evidence at face
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: value and do the right thing, because we all know
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the true verdict. But I was concerned. I would say,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: if I was a betting man sitting there that day
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: watching the verdict, it was probably fifty to fifty in
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: my mind. But I was hopeful and then obviously extremely disappointed.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I was angry, I was bitter, all the emotions you
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: go through. But it took me years to get over.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: That, you know, And yeah, I can imagine.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Processing some of it. Sure, Sure, I waited thirty two
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: years to rate the book.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, I mean that certainly explains.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Why safety, you know.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, how did you feel when OJ died?
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: When you heard or read that OJ died, or how
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: did you find out well.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: All through the years after he had been exonerated, he
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: still brought me up numerous times. He wrote about me
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: in that stupid book that he wrote, if I do
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: it by name, So he always had me still on
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: his mind because he hated me. I mean, I was
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: the guy who stayed to him. And Nick told me
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: that that day at Gretna Green when he burst in
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: on us and I wouldn't leave them alone. She told
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: me that day she said, Keith, no one, no one
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: talks to him that way. I said, what's he going
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: to do? Kill me? I mean, I had those words
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: came out of my mouth to Nick that day. Cavalier
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: about it after the fact. What an idiot, I.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Was, Well, so you were you afraid for the year's
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: post then post acquittal.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't stay afraid. I lived my life in public.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I had bars and restaurants. I didn't hide, I didn't
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: try to keep a little profile. I wasn't worried about him,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: but it was always in the back of my mind.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're a New York girl, you know, walking
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: home from a bar four o'clock in the morning down
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a dark avenue or side street, there's there's there's little,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: you know, places.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: To hide, for people to hide.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I'd be lying if I didn't say across my mind
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: a lot of times. But I didn't live my life.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't let it define how I lived my life.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: But I will tell you this. When he died, I
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: was living in the Bahamas. I didn't think anybody knew
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: where I was at, to be honest with you, I
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: was doing a good project in a pretty isolated area
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: of the Bahamas. And my phone blew up, my emails
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: blew up, and that's when I started thinking about the book.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I thought to myself, well, there's still an interest. Maybe
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: someone needs to tell Maybe I need to tell the
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: story so people will understand what happened. And now I
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: kind of feel safe because somebody's writ in the book
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: isn't too flattering to mister Simpson, who knows what he
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: would have done if this book would have come out
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: when he was alive, if he would have come after me,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: or had someone come after me, those things would have
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: gone through my mind.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: So I waited, what did you think about fay Resnik
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: and her book?
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Did you know Faye at all?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: No, Faye, I wasn't a fan of it when it
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: came out. I kind of understand her motivation, but I
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: would have rather Fae spoke some of that on the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: witness stand and by writing that book eliminated her instantly
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: from being a witness. Oh to prefer if Faye wanted
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: to write a book, she waited and did it after
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: she testified. But I know Fay in her heart, had
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Nichole's best interest in mind. She may not have portrayed me.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I mean I know that Faye
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: and Nick were close. You know, they used to come
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: see me at the Monkey Bar quite a bit in Aspen, Colorado.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I saw Faye and Nick there with Cato. But just
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: to answer in a short form, I wish she had
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: waited to write the book until after she had testified.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so do I.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: But you know a lot of people did a lot
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: of things.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what did you think about when OJ was indicted
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: after the Las Vegas robbery, Because I you know, those
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: of us who didn't who are just looking at this
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: from the outside. I was just constantly waiting for him
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: to fall. I was constantly waiting for him not to
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: do I didn't want him to hurt more women, which
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: I'm sure he did, but I was constantly waiting for
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: that thing he was going to do that was going
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: to screw him.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: You knows do and they kill themselves.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: You knew he had the road rage incidents and me
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: the stealing of direct TV. Yeah, the things that a
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: double murderer who's acquitted, you think the last thing they
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: would do themselves. But that's the mindset of a sociopath
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and a narcissist, you know, that's OJ Simpsons. So he
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: couldn't control himself. So to answer your question, when the
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: whole Las Vegas situation came about, I was thrilled, you know,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: obviously glad no one got hurt. But I watched that
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: trial with great anticipation, hoping that some sort of form
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: of justice would come about, and it did in a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: minor way. The fact that he served several years behind
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: bars made me feel good. I wish it was longer.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: It wasn't, but I got a lot of satisfaction out
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Has her family read your book? Nicole's family?
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I told him about it, so, yeah, they're fine.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: They haven't had a commented on it at all.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Or Denise is fine. Denise's good. Ron Hardy's good Tanya.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Tanya sort of took a different rounde. She thought I
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: should have got her blessing first, God blessed on me.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say anything negative, but she just
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: sort of took the approach that she wanted me to
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: tell her about it before I did it. And what
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I did was I told no one. And I did
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: that for a reason because I didn't want anybody talking
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to me out of it. Yeah, and I wanted it
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: to be raw and emotional from my heart. Why I
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: wrote the book. I turned down book deals over the years,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: numerous book deals. I didn't want a writer to polish
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: it up and make it professional. It's the last thing
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I wanted someone to feel like they were living this
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: unique experience with me. So I did it on my own.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: It was a process that I had to internalize. I'm
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: not a writer, so you didn't have a ghostwriter. You
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: wrote it, get it on my own. I had a
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: couple of friends who have written things in the past
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: who helped me with organizational stuff and how to you know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: frame the book and that kind of stuff, and then
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: ultimately get it published through Amazon. It's from me, It's
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: from my heart and it's my stories, and like I said,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: it's it's almost like a walking journal, so my funerals
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: and I've always been close with the sisters over the years,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: with the whole family over the years. I testified in
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: the Cussi trial. I went out to testify in the
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Cussi trial. I gave deposition in the civil trial as
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: well the Cussy trial. At the behest of the Brown
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: family called me directly and said, would you please come testify.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You know, this is our trial now, it's not skate
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: or anybody put it on. I said, I'll be there tomorrow.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: So we always had a good relationship. But I just
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: thought to myself, if I tell them, they might try
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: to talk me out of it, and I really wanted
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: my heart to stay in it. Yeah, it's and to
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: be perfectly honest with you, it's Nick and my story.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: It was our sar experience. I didn't really bring up
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: the family other than direct you know, incidents that we
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: talked about together. For I wanted to focus on the
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: story that Nick and I built together, the things together
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: and the emotions that we shared together that you know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: they weren't around for a lot of that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Sure, I mean it's your right. It's your story. You
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: certainly have the right to tell it. And I'm sure
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: did you find it healing for you?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: The process and painful and healing, you know it. It
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: opened a few wounds. It made me think about some
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: deep thoughts that had thought about in a mole. But
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: it kind of gave me the last word, you know.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: That's the kind of willing part. It let me, and
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: it let me tell other people some things I've wanted
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: to get off my chest and hopefully find that and
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: the domestic violence side of it that we've talked about
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: several times during this Over the years, more and more
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: since the advent of social media, I've been contacted by
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: women who have been in abusive relationships who somehow, somehow
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: found my story inspirational. Yeah, that I was there for Nick,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: that I helped Nick, that I protected her. And women
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: have reached out to me in the past telling me
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I've given them the strength to get out of abusive relationships,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: possibly saved their life. And I'm really good to hear,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: very very good friends with several of them to this day.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So if somebody can read this book and wake up
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: tomorrow and say to themselves, I recognize this behavior. I
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: don't think it's ever going to change. Look what happened
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: to her, that could happen to me, and have the
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: strength to walk out and also know that there's a
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: lot more resources now. Denise. Yes, Denise is in the
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: process right now of writing a book focusing on domestic violence.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: She talks about Nick obviously, but she's focusing on domestic
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: violence to try to help let women know there's outlets, now,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: there's ps that Nick's murder brought a lot of that
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to the forefront and hopefully will help more women get
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: out of that situation.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: I think that that is a terrific, terrific goal and
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: great to hear because it is still such a taboo
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: thing for the people going through it to share.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: It's very, very complicated, and I think people still really
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: don't understand how hard that is for women to extricate
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: themselves and how insidious that abusive behavior can be. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: it's just so important that people talk about it.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing that up, because it's a big
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: part of why I wrote the book.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Was there anything in my last question about the series,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Was there anything in the series that felt like that
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: brought up things for you where you felt like, Oh,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I can't watch this now, it's too much.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Was there anything that was sort of hit too.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Close to home or no? Because they really didn't focus.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: The things that really are truly emotional for me are
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: obviously the autopsy. You know what that savage did to
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: those two people, So I steer clear of all that.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Over the years. I've never looked at those photos. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: never will. There's no desire. I will never remember her
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: that way. I don't have any desire. So when they
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: showed some of those quick glimpses of the crime scene,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: even though they were recreative, I sort of turned a
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: little bit because I don't want to associate Nick or
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Ron with that. So that was really the part. But
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: all the other stuff I've lived, I've been through, so
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: I was familiar with, you know, most of it. I
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: don't like. I don't like them focusing on you know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: him and his accomplishments as much. But I understand that's
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: part of the story, right right, that sells the program.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, is there anything last things you'd want to
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: say about you think there's anything that people misunderstood about
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Nicole or anything that you'd like to sort of say
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: in your last moment here.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I would just like everybody to understand that she was
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: a living, breathing, wonderful human being and mother first and foremost.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Her whole life revolved around Sydney and Justin. Everything she
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: did was for their best interest and ultimately cost her
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: her life because that reconciliation was for the benefit of
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Sidney and Justin. It wasn't for Nick, it wasn't right
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: for her and Oj. It was for the father of
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: those children and to be back in the family unit.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And that's what cost to her life because I truly
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: believe if she had never tried the reconciliation that things
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: would have drifted because they had already been apart for
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: a year and a half. Yeah, but because they got
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: back together and he got that emotional attachment again, when
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: he realized at the very end that he couldn't control
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: her anymore, is when he snapped. So what I want
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: people to understand is she was She was a wonderful,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: wonderful person and I miss her dearly and Ron as well.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You know, I feel horrible the situation Ron was in,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: and I like people to, you know, understand that that's
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: that's She's in my heart. She always will be I
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: never got married.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I never had children that I was going to ask, right,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you never got married, No, I.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I dated over the years obviously, but I
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: just never could get that attachment that I feel like
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I had with her.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: So well, I really I'm honored speak with you today,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: and I really appreciate how authentic and raw and forthcoming
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: you have been with your heart and your experiences. And
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I hope that this process of talking about the book
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: and getting it out there that.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: It really helps you to heal and kind of move forward.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: And I really appreciate that you are looking to help
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: people that are going have could potentially be in these
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: situations now you know, to get out.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: So the way to get the book if you're interested,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: is on Amazon US. I published through Amazon, so the
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: book is called Stalked it could have been Me, So
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: you can type in the title or the title in
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: my name. There are numerous books on Amazon called stalk
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: so you'll find it right. I do have a website
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: dedicated to the book itself, but the website name is
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: slightly different. I couldn't get the name of the book.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: It's called oj stalked me dot com. So if you
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: go to ojstalked me dot com. There's links to buy
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: the book on Amazon, and it also gives you a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: synopsis of the book in the bio of me and
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: sort of contextualizes me a little bit. But I'd like
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: people to go buy it, read it, understand nixt story,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: and hopefully enjoy it. Right.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you again so much, Keith, and I just
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: swish you the best of everything. And again, I'm really
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: sorry for your loss.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the forum
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: to tell a story.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I want to hear what cases you all
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: are interested in hearing about. What are you watching that
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: you want us to talk about? What actors or producers
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: or directors do you want to hear from? Hit us
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: up at our dms at Killer Thriller Pod on Instagram
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: and TikTok and let us know. Make sure to follow
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: the pod on socials and subscribe to Amy and TJ
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Presents wherever you listen to podcasts that will wrap us
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: up for today until next time.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Time