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Coffee Smarter: Espresso Roasts · Coffee People Podcast

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Like, hey everyone, if you like the roast West Coast coffee
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To, I like beer, the podcast.com Hello and good morning everyone.
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Welcome to season 4 episode 17 of the roast West Coast coffee
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podcast. I'm Ryan Walton.
0:50
This is the show where I bring you the stories of coffee
0:53
professionals entrepreneurship and coffee education.
0:57
Today is one of those education episodes where we try to get a
0:59
little bit coffee. Smarter Chris O'Brien, the
1:02
founder and head roaster of coffee cycle, roasting in
1:04
Pacific Beach. California is back this week to
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talk about espresso. What makes some coffees more
1:10
appealing to drink as an espresso or at least they're
1:14
marketed to us as espresso roasts?
1:17
How many times can I say, espresso?
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In the top of the show? I'm putting the over-under at
1:22
nine espresso is coffee brewed with pressure during the show.
1:27
Chris talks about pressure in terms of bars I should have had
1:30
them clarify in the moment but I didn't so I'm going to give you
1:33
a little bit of background. First I'm more familiar with PSI
1:37
which is the measurement you might use.
1:39
When pumping up your bicycle tire PSI is measuring the force
1:43
of something in pounds per square inch.
1:46
A bar of pressure measurement is the same concept, but it is
1:50
measuring in kilograms per square.
1:51
Inch bar pressure, measurements are part of the metric system
1:55
which is used pretty much everywhere else in the world
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including Italy where espresso was popularized traditionally,
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the ideal pressure for an espresso machine to extract the
2:05
coffee. During the Brewing process is
2:07
eight to nine bars. One of those bars is the
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equivalent of about 14 and a half pounds per square inch.
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Meaning that the ideal espresso pressure in an American
2:18
Imperial, standard of measurement is 116 to 130 and a
2:22
half PSI. That would be one very pumped up
2:26
bike tire. I'll add a bar to psi converter
2:30
to the newsletter on roast westcoast.com.
2:33
You can always go there after listening to the show to get
2:35
Recaps Coffee News, clarifying, content coffee.
2:39
Education and updates from our roast industry.
2:41
Partners. If you're stoked on this show,
2:44
the roast West Coast coffee podcast and you do feel coffee
2:47
smarter, please, consider subscribing so that you don't
2:50
miss any of our future shows. And I hope you took the under
2:54
because that was seven times that I set espresso, make it
2:58
eight right now. I'm pouring a fresh cup of
3:00
coffee and you should too because it is time to sit back,
3:04
relax and get a little bit coffee Smarter with Chris
3:08
O'Brien of coffee. Recycle roasting on the roast
3:11
West Coast coffee podcast. Hey, Chris.
3:28
Yeah, Chrissy over there. I'm over here.
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Putting the phone down. I'll be yours, will be all
3:37
yours. Well, I always appreciate the
3:41
professionalism. Welcome back to the roast West
3:45
Coast coffee pod, cast, Chris. I'm glad you're here.
3:48
And we got into a pretty intense conversation last week about
3:52
Barista competitions. So if anyone has it, listen to
3:55
that, they should because it'll go and take you in different
3:58
places. You probably aren't expecting.
4:00
Have you had your bench and your beard looks greatest?
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My beard has been trimmed. You know, I really appreciate
4:07
you noticing. I actually put in a little beard
4:09
oil today to just so I would look nice and shiny.
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Very nice. As you look the same, but I
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wanted to get back on to a topic that is a little bit.
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I think more accessible to people today.
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At least people that drink coffee everyday, or like, coffee
4:29
or coffee drinks. And I want to talk to you about
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espresso and the coffee's that we use for espresso when I come
4:39
to your shop. For example, there's always like
4:41
a coffee that you've chosen to be the The house espresso roast
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like, if someone just says, I want an espresso or I want to
4:47
coffee drink. This is the one that you're
4:49
putting in there. Sometimes I'll say, you'll say
4:52
well, this other coffee tastes really good espresso.
4:54
Or this one doesn't and wondering if there are, if there
4:57
are traits or if there are reasons why one coffee might be
5:00
better for an espresso, drink versus a brood drink than
5:03
another. Yeah, and that's a great
5:06
question and that's something that comes up all the time in my
5:10
professional life. So I'm really happy to address
5:12
it in this forum and sort of talk about a little bit.
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It's really confusing because some people will literally put
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on their bag and they're selling you beans.
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They'll say espresso beans are like well these are for making
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espresso and other beans are not.
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But the fact of the matter is is that technically Espresso refers
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to a means of preparation of coffee and not too specific
5:40
beans. So, technically, you should be
5:43
able to pull espresso with any coffee beans.
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So, you know, we could literally like, end the episode right
5:50
there. And I would hope that like
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everyone would just just trust me, and believe me.
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And just would be better people, therefore, and cause me a little
5:57
bit less heartburn, but there is, you know, of course, more
6:00
subtlety to it than that and, you know, that I I am willing to
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talk about it for her however, long we're doing this episode
6:09
today. So that is the main takeaway
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though is that espresso literally refers to a means of
6:15
preparation, of means to brew using pressure using pressurized
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water. And there's some standards in
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the pressure that's used, but overall it's really just to brew
6:28
it with pressure. There's been some Innovation
6:29
with it, where we don't always use the same pressure there.
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Been some technical changes over the years that have sort of
6:35
changed, the way pressure is used in Brewing espressos
6:39
generally, but overall, it's pretty much all the same.
6:44
You put finely ground coffee into a small metal filter
6:47
basket. You apply high pressure water to
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the Top of those compacted, fine grounds, the grounds are so fine
6:56
and compacted that they resist, the pressure of the water
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pressure builds up and it extracts espresso which is a
7:04
coffee that has usually no paper filtration so it will have
7:07
naturally occurring oils in it. Those oils will get emulsified
7:11
by the pressure. They'll create a layer of Crema
7:14
on top sort of a foam from the the oils being under high
7:18
pressure and you can use any kind of Coffee to do it.
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You can use a really light Rose or you can use a really dark
7:24
roast or you can use a single origin from any particular
7:28
origin or you can use a blend but espresso historically comes
7:33
from Italy and that's where our general understanding of
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espresso comes from the espresso machine.
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As I think we talked about another episode was invented
7:45
around the turn of the century. Around 1900 was sort of an early
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version of it that was mentioned 10, 20 years.
7:51
Or those really just come a batch Brewer.
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But the espresso machine the the progenitor of the espresso
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machine as we know it today was invented, just before 1900, and
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the patent was bought just after 1900 by a guy named pavoni and
8:07
pavoni. Still makes espresso machines,
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not the guy himself, he's no longer with us but his company
8:14
La pavoni. So makes espresso machines or
8:16
the oldest espresso machine manufacturer in the world as you
8:19
would be if you own the original.
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Patent for an espresso machine. And those machines had a boiler
8:27
that contain boiling water that let contain pressure inside so
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you can get it hotter than the 212, water boils at or night.
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And that sort of acts as like a stored energy, heat energy and
8:39
pressure. And then the rest of the
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pressure was derived from a spring, a lever would be pulled
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down to engage the spring and then the spring would push, you
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know, low-pressure water. Was low-pressure water, push it
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at the coffee Puck, create high pressure and extract your
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espresso. Now, just to, I'm going to jump
8:59
in and just, I wanted to mention this before.
9:01
Just to explain that you'd mention you put the finely
9:05
finely ground coffee into, like, a little metal basket that
9:10
though, the water is then pushed onto it.
9:12
You just referred to it as a puck.
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And we've said this in other shows, but just want to clarify.
9:16
It's called that because it kind of looks like a hockey puck,
9:18
right? Yeah.
9:18
I mean it's essentially a small thick.
9:21
Ask of coffee grinds. That's so, finally compacted
9:24
that the water that's being pushed through.
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It is like fighting to find a way through to extract that
9:30
flavor. So when it comes out the bottom
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of that puck, it's essentially soaked.
9:35
It's been seeped in that those grounds.
9:38
Yes. And forced its way through.
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Yes. The amount of pressure that we
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usually use is about nine bars of pressure.
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If you're using a traditional like contemporary espresso
9:49
machine, where it's pumped, Driven instead of spring driven
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that pump is going to pump water at that compacted coffee and
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it's going to let the pressure get up to nine bars of pressure.
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And when it hits nine bars on middle, hold it there.
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And then liquid will slowly seep through the bottom of that
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compressed Puck of coffee and will drip into your espresso cup
10:14
and that's your espresso and I saw an interesting thing the
10:17
other day. If you take the square inches of
10:21
a traditional espresso pot which is 58, mm diameter.
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Take the square inches of that and you apply 9 precious nine
10:31
bars of pressure to it. It's equivalent to something
10:34
like three ballerinas standing on tiptoe on that same little
10:39
area so 58. Mm about like two two and a half
10:43
inches and like that and and I saw this great image of like a
10:47
portafilter with three ballerinas.
10:49
Has you know perched on it because that's about the amount
10:51
of pressure would be is like 300-pound adults or 390 pounds
10:55
belts. You know all putting their
10:57
weight on the one small little area but you know in Italy where
11:02
the espresso machine originated, it originally 1900 around 1900.
11:07
And so back then coffee is being brought from all of the world
11:12
just like it is now but coffee wasn't.
11:16
Really being cultivated with the Precision and care.
11:20
That is now we didn't know as much about agriculture in
11:24
general back then and we certainly hadn't applied it as
11:27
broadly as we do now. And there's still Innovations
11:30
going on at the farm level today, and, you know, hopefully,
11:33
they're always will be, it's always good to be improving.
11:37
But you can kind of boil that down to say, basically the green
11:41
coffee that's coming into Italy and 1900, 1910 1920, whenever
11:45
you know, work, Looking at here is not at the same quality level
11:49
as it is today. It's just not as refined, they
11:53
aren't sorting out as many defects that are not, they don't
11:56
know what to look for necessarily.
11:58
They don't know to pick only the ripens Cherry is, they don't
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know that they can, you know, have different varietals and
12:05
crossbreed them to get different effects.
12:08
They don't take as much care in the processing.
12:11
So there's going to be more defects that arise and that step
12:14
all kinds of different things that are going to go basically
12:17
more wrong compared to what we know.
12:19
Under 20 years later, And so, when a roaster gets a coffee
12:25
that has flaws and defects in it, if we roast it light, if we
12:29
roast it, you know, to the level that like we roast at our shop
12:33
or, you know, some other, some other Roasters, roast the
12:36
lighter Rose style, you're going to taste those defects and
12:39
they're going to taste really bad.
12:41
I'm going to his bad in different ways.
12:43
We can taste make, you had an episode with Syria about
12:46
tasting, tasting coffee. And you know what?
12:48
We look for in it, but you can have coffee.
12:51
His, you know, we talk about the good taste, some coffee a lot.
12:53
We talk about confident tastes like red, wine or blueberry, or
12:57
milk, chocolate or caramel. We talk about those things.
13:01
Well, we don't like to talk about with customers is coffee,
13:04
that tastes like burnt rubber or asphalt or old Band-Aids or hey
13:12
raw. Peanut there's all kinds of ways
13:15
that coffee can taste really bad raw potato potato.
13:19
Defect is like a gnome defect and In certain coffees and these
13:22
bad taste can come from all kinds of these flaws at the
13:26
producing level, or the Storage level.
13:28
It could, you know, tastes pretty bad because it was stored
13:31
poorly or maybe it was on the deck of a ship coming up from
13:35
Africa or Latin America, or wherever it was.
13:37
And the wave came over the side of the ship and got the bag of
13:39
coffee. And that's that's, you know, a
13:42
real risk because it's just a burlap sack with raw coffee
13:45
beans inside of it. And so, when you have these
13:49
flaws in a coffee, well, generally we don't want to buy a
13:53
coffee that has a bunch of flaws in it.
13:55
But if you're going back, 100 years, all the copies going to
13:58
have some flaws, and it's going to buy some flawed coffee and
14:01
what do you do with it? You just roast it light and you
14:04
taste burnt rubber and, you know, grass and hay.
14:09
It doesn't sound like it tastes very good.
14:11
So you roast it darker. And when you roast it darker,
14:14
the heat is going to destroy some of those Get compounds that
14:19
are producing some of these undesirable flavors.
14:22
It's going to destroy some delicate compounds that destroy
14:25
that could produce desirable flavors, as well.
14:29
I'd point out, that's another way to create consistency in
14:33
those coffees as well, if you're a large-scale operation, and
14:38
this isn't even meant to be a slight, but if you want a
14:41
consistent tasting coffee, that you ship around the country or
14:45
around the world. By giving it that extra oomph,
14:50
that extra roast your you're reducing the number of
14:53
differences that people are going to get on the, you know,
14:55
on the final consumer because you've essentially roasted those
14:58
flavors out. Absolutely.
15:02
It's may be problematic that occasionally, I use steak as a
15:05
comparison to coffee because I, you know, do have a lot of
15:10
vegetarian friends. But if you get a really cheap
15:14
steak cut and a really nice steak cut, and you cook them
15:18
both really well done. You just cook the heck out of
15:20
them, you might notice the taste and difference in the taste you
15:24
probably will but if you cook them both, you know, less you
15:28
could come both medium or medium rare, the difference between
15:31
those Two cuts of steak is going to be very different.
15:35
And so, you know, that's the case with a lot of things where,
15:38
you know, you can use the cooking process or the roasting
15:41
process, the application of heat to cover up, and Destroy
15:45
defects, and to compensate for things that didn't go right
15:50
earlier in the process. And so, when you go back in
15:53
history, you see that well, we didn't have coffee.
15:56
That was good enough to roast as light as we can roast it now
16:00
until you have to roast it dark. And so we have this Association
16:04
of espresso beans, what is espresso beans, and we have an
16:07
association with them being a dark roast and that's where that
16:11
comes from. So you do not need to have a
16:13
dark roast to make an espresso. That being said, if you get used
16:20
to the taste of a dark roasted espresso, you might not like the
16:25
taste of a light roasted espresso.
16:26
It's a very different beverage and much as I have my
16:30
preferences there. You know, there's I can't really
16:35
say that you're wrong to like, a dark roasted espresso because
16:38
you can take a really nice coffee and roast it dark and
16:41
have it be good and then make an espresso out of it.
16:44
So there's, there's nothing wrong with that and that's the
16:47
kind of coffee you like than. That's always.
16:49
What matters is. Did you like it?
16:51
I think that it's good to drink coffee.
16:53
That's produced well and it's good to reward producers for
16:57
producing good coffee. But if ultimately you want to
17:00
roast it darker and then you want to make espresso out of it
17:04
or drip or whatever it is. Then that's that's fine.
17:07
But it is important to know that you can take a worst coffee a
17:11
coffee with more flaws and roasted darker and have that be
17:16
a sort of a compensation for some of those flaws.
17:19
And that is where our association with espresso as a
17:22
dark roast comes from. It comes from the history of
17:25
espresso being from an earlier time.
17:29
I'm where we didn't have coffee. That was good enough to roast
17:31
light and the innovation of producing good light, roasted
17:39
espresso chemically that's actually more difficult to pull
17:43
off and that comes down to solubility.
17:46
So solubility is going to impact the extraction of the espresso.
17:52
So when you roast the coffee darker, it does become more
17:55
soluble. And when I say solubility, I'm
17:58
talking about how Easy, are these different compounds that
18:02
are inside the Coffee Bean to extract?
18:05
How easily can I get them from the ground coffee into my liquid
18:09
beverage? Whether it's a drip coffee or an
18:11
espresso and roasting coffee darker, you're eliminating a lot
18:15
of compounds by combusting member.
18:19
Honestly, combusting them by breaking them down with the
18:21
heat, you're pairing, proteins to sugars and caramelizing more.
18:26
And so, the coffee does become more soluble at a darker roast.
18:32
There's also some coffees based on Origin or varietal or
18:36
processing that are going to be a little bit more soluble than
18:39
others. Let me ask you then.
18:42
So, what is your standard espresso and coffee cycle?
18:46
Right now. Yeah, right now our house is
18:48
press. O is our Costa Rica.
18:50
Black honey, process could terracotta, a varietal mix from
18:55
tarazu in Costa Rica Cafe, Corazon Farm.
18:59
You chose that to be your spresso roast.
19:01
Because why? And I the reason I'm asking is
19:05
because I'm wondering if because of the historical Association of
19:11
Espresso with a dark roast, even though you're not wanting to
19:16
roast to that level of Darkness, I'm guessing that you choose
19:20
espressos that may resemble. Some of the similar flavors, you
19:24
might find in a darker row, something.
19:26
A little more chocolatier richer or absolutely, you know,
19:29
hopefully I'm not way off because that's what customers
19:32
have grown to associate with espresso as opposed to say in
19:36
Ethiopia, that's going to be really light and fruity and
19:39
subtle. Absolutely.
19:41
And, you know, I try to have intentionality like that to most
19:44
of the things that we do in the cafe and to anything that I cook
19:48
too you know, it's it's it's nice to have things that that
19:52
work well together. So you know we're pairing a lot
19:55
of our espressos with milk. So yes short answer to your
19:59
question, the Costa Rica that we serve and the Guatemala that we
20:02
serve before that we chose mainly based on the fact that
20:06
their taste profile as espresso or as drip is very focused on
20:11
Chocolate and sweetness and not as focused on fruit and acidity.
20:15
Despite the fact that coffee is a fruit and has a lot of natural
20:20
acidity to it. That being said, the reason that
20:22
we choose that chocolatey caramel, we profiled coffee
20:26
over. A more fruity one isn't
20:30
necessarily to cater to the broader consumer experience of a
20:38
less acidic darker. Roasted coffee.
20:41
The reason we do it is actually more because it pairs with the
20:46
other ingredients that were using in the store more easily.
20:51
So a mocha is a popular drink of vanilla latte as a popular
20:55
drink. You can pair Citrus, and Berry
20:58
and fruit flavors with chocolate or vanilla and milk even, but
21:05
it's going to be a little bit easier of a parenting De Pere,
21:07
a, chocolaty coffee with a chocolate, and milk or a
21:12
chocolaty coffee with vanilla and milk, or with caramel and
21:16
milk. Sweet caramel latte of, you
21:17
know, we've all these things. So it is possible to pair a
21:21
fruitier espresso or for your coffee with those things.
21:24
But, you know, an All of that is that many years ago we made a
21:30
syrup lavender syrup for our lattes.
21:32
And the main reason I made that syrup was because I had an
21:35
Ethiopia coffee that was very citrusy and fruity that I really
21:38
loved and it made a great espresso, but it really didn't
21:43
pair as well with the vanilla or the chocolate.
21:46
But a paired great with the lavender in the milk.
21:48
So those kind of flavor pairings and something that I look at
21:51
first, my espresso choices, but I mean, that is a great Good
21:56
question, because it is nice to be able to serve an espresso to
21:59
someone when you don't know what their taste preferences,
22:03
naturally are going to be and say, okay, well, this is my
22:05
style. I don't want a totally rock your
22:09
world and then change up your expectation too much.
22:12
And so, there is an element of that to our choices. well, based
22:16
on what you just said, I would also think that I think that
22:21
like in Ethiopia, for example, is a really popular coffee here,
22:26
regionally. I don't know that, that's true
22:28
necessarily in other regions of the country.
22:30
Always And so assuming there's an association with espresso and
22:37
flavor, it might be more difficult to offer somebody a
22:42
drink that's so far, so much more.
22:46
Would be more experimental or riskier in that situation for
22:49
them to try not knowing where they're coming from and
22:51
absolutely. And that's not to say we
22:53
shouldn't challenge people or challenge customers and that
22:56
sort of thing either. But I mean, yes, we're always
23:00
talking about coffee, just kind of one on one with the audience
23:03
here but you also run a business and so there's that aspect of it
23:06
that you have to keep in mind as well.
23:09
And so, and I would also, I just want to reiterate and make sure
23:14
that it was, it made sense that when you You're talking about
23:16
the Costa Rica or the Guatemala that you serve as an espresso.
23:20
Those flavors are occurring naturally not because you are
23:23
roasting them to an excessive amount that was that's kind of
23:26
the value. There is they are a better
23:28
coffee that naturally has flavors so you can roast it to a
23:32
lighter medium level, which we got to figure out a better way
23:37
to talk about like medium and light roast because every
23:40
roaster has like maybe a little bit different perspective on
23:43
where their light is or where their medium is.
23:46
When you're talking to customers, are you referring to
23:48
it as well? It's lighter.
23:50
Medium on this General world scale.
23:52
Is it lighter medium or dark based on the shop scale, right?
23:56
You know, it's a very poor selection of words that we have
24:01
chosen to to use for this particular thing.
24:03
What if I don't want to come to the shop?
24:06
I have never made an espresso at home.
24:09
I've made a few espressos in your shop at a time in a place
24:14
that I know you've tried to forget.
24:16
Get you did great buddy. But so I know Brewing espresso
24:22
at home. Seems to be something that's
24:23
becoming more common. I'm seeing it a lot more,
24:25
especially with listeners of the show.
24:28
Actually one of our followers. If you're on Instagram, follow
24:31
at Caldwell coffee, he does a lot of espresso at home that
24:35
seems to be something more and more people are getting into and
24:37
I'm wondering if you could just kind of touch on that and say is
24:40
that something that people should be doing or is it are
24:43
there at home? Espresso machines that seem to
24:47
be worth a damn. I don't even really know where
24:50
to go to the question. You're the expert.
24:51
You tell me? Well, you know, it's um, It's
24:54
actually an awesome topic because home espresso is
24:58
becoming more and more accessible.
25:01
Even as coffee is changing to make espresso even harder to
25:06
pull off than it used to be. So We talked about solubility
25:10
and we have those darker roasts that are more easily soluble,
25:14
but there's also different Origins and different coffees
25:17
that are more easily soluble. So, you know, we were not very
25:21
used to as consumers, drinking what I will recall, single
25:26
origin, espressos and, you know, there's there's there's a quote
25:31
in a sort of a philosophy about how all coffee is a blend.
25:34
Because, you know, every coffee beans, a little bit different on
25:37
every Farm is little bit different.
25:39
And, you know, all your coffee is always going to be a bit of a
25:41
blend. But usually when you talk about
25:43
a blend, your talk about mixing, you know, a Brazil within
25:47
Ethiopia over the Columbia or, you know, also with a Sumatra or
25:51
whatever it is that you're mixing together.
25:53
And so most, we talked about how, you know, this press has
25:59
been influenced historically by, where it comes from an Italy.
26:03
But it's also influence currently by where coffee is
26:05
being produced. And so, you know, the largest
26:08
producer of In the world is Brazil and a lot of Brazilian
26:12
coffees are very easily soluble, not very high acidity and so
26:18
they're easy to extract well and they're not too fruity that tend
26:22
to have a lot of chocolate flavors and, you know, kind of
26:24
cinnamons not make spice kind of notes and easy to drink, easy to
26:29
easy to get behind on. So, Brazil forms the basis of
26:33
most espresso, Blends out there, and most coffee shops not
26:38
wanting to have their own. Espresso change too much and not
26:41
wanting the challenges of having to pull single origin espressos
26:45
that you know, may or may not please a wide variety of their
26:49
customers, they'll sell an espresso blend.
26:52
And I promise, I'm going to take this back to Espresso at home
26:55
but those Blended espressos are going to be a little bit easier
26:59
to extract on any kind of equipment that you have whether
27:03
it's home equipment or commercial equipment and whether
27:06
you're super well-trained or not.
27:08
But getting To home espresso. You know a huge barrier of Entry
27:12
is always been the expense of home.
27:14
Espresso equipment to get an espresso machine is usually not
27:18
very cheap nowadays, you can get one for a couple hundred dollars
27:22
which given that I've been working in coffee for, you know,
27:26
18 years now or something like that.
27:28
She's no 20 21 years, I don't know, all the my gun the last
27:33
two years. Don't count.
27:35
That's the policy there there Flex years that you can use for
27:39
For against yourself. If you like, that's good, that's
27:41
good. But given that I've been working
27:44
on for so long is incredibly cheap because if I were to buy a
27:49
$400 espresso machine, 20 years ago, chances are that it would
27:54
have. Either not worked or not been
27:57
available or what a broken, you know, instantly, I'm imagining
28:02
something with a bike pump. I like that, though, I like
28:05
where your head's at, you know, like a bike pump, to create the
28:08
pressure and pushing the water. The whole thing for 400 bucks,
28:11
seems reasonable well. And you know it's kind of funny
28:14
you say that because nowadays there's also this huge market
28:16
for manual espresso machines where you do create the
28:19
pressure, not with an electrical pump, but there's some that are
28:23
made with lever arms that you just There's some that are made
28:28
with crank arms where you spin it to create the pressure of
28:31
like it's kind of Corkscrew spring pressure and basically
28:36
home espresso has become a lot more accessible in terms of the
28:39
price point of a machine that's going to produce.
28:43
You know, you're sort of six to nine bars of pressure that you
28:46
want. And so that's really cool, but
28:52
One thing that we always talked about in the shop when we're
28:55
talking to customers and trying to recommend them what to do for
28:58
their their home espresso is and this has been true for the
29:02
entirety of my time in in coffee is that it's always better to
29:07
invest in the grinder. Over the espresso machine
29:11
because the espresso machine really has one job to do and
29:13
it's produce nine bars of water pressure, a delivered to your
29:17
coffee and most machines will do that.
29:21
And even if they only Only do six bars, that's actually kind
29:24
of trendy now and sort of popular.
29:25
Instead to mess with the pressure of a commercial
29:27
machine, bring it down to six bars and then extend your Brew
29:31
time a little bit longer. And you know, you'll find people
29:34
that sort of fall coffee professionals that sort of fall
29:37
in different camps as far as their opinion on that and
29:41
whether they like it or whether they want to see more of that or
29:44
less of that, or what have you. But the fact the matter is that
29:47
an espresso machine has one job and it's produced that that
29:51
pressure of water. That job is not that hard.
29:54
It can be hard on the equipment over time because you have to
29:57
heat up water to Boiling, and you have to force it, you know,
30:00
at this pressure and so you know, lifespan of equipment
30:04
might have some issue there, but if you just need to get into the
30:07
game, espresso machines, really not that hard to produce with
30:12
today's technology, like I said, people are even doing it with
30:15
little spinny crank arms, you just fill it with some boiling
30:17
water and spin this little thing.
30:19
What's really hard to do? Is to grind coffee, really fine,
30:24
really finds that it reduces resist.
30:27
The pressure of that nine, bars of liquid, nine, bars of liquid
30:30
water pressure grinder, really fine and have the particle
30:34
consistency. Still be relatively uniform or
30:38
at least bimodal uniform, and by bimodal uniform.
30:41
I mean, it's producing two different sized particles.
30:44
That are at least both of those particles are very similar in
30:48
size, not to each other but To to each other to themselves to
30:52
themselves. And so, you know, espresso
30:56
Grinders kind of come to ways popular.
30:58
Now especially for lighter Rose. So if we talked about is is a
31:02
grinder that's going to create a more you know, model espresso
31:04
Ryan and those are usually big flat Burr Grinders and that's
31:08
what we use in our shop, who use flat burner.
31:11
That's a very wide diameter, so that can grind coffee at a
31:14
reasonable Speed, without raising your RPM so much that it
31:18
will, he Coffee too much while grinding and that creates a very
31:23
unimodal espresso but it's very challenging to machine Aber.
31:29
That is going to produce that you know, modal coffee, son
31:32
coffee grounds size. And also it's difficult to
31:35
produce the grinder to hold it that's going to spin the Burrs
31:39
and hold them. So, perfectly parallel to each
31:42
other, that you are creating that uniform, particle size
31:45
engineering-wise. It just requires an incredible
31:48
amount of precision. And some of the really high-end
31:51
espresso Grinders that we work with even commercially are
31:54
notorious for failures in the engineering quality control
31:59
aspect of keeping, those Burrs aligned perfectly.
32:02
For example. And so these are even some of
32:05
the highest end Grinders that we have that we have these
32:08
challenges with and because you know, we're trying to produce
32:14
consistency on this high volume level, that challenge is even
32:20
But even at home, you know, you don't want to pull a really good
32:23
shot of espresso one day and then really terrible.
32:25
One. The next day, you want that to
32:27
be consistent at home to, especially because, you know,
32:30
your volume of coffee. If you're not going through, 40
32:33
pounds of coffee on your espresso machine in the day,
32:35
like you would be in a high-volume shop.
32:38
You don't want to waste a shot of espresso.
32:39
Just trying to get a good shot. You waste a shot of espresso,
32:43
you've wasted, you know, a tenth or 15th of the bag that you just
32:47
bought, and suddenly your Or your coffee budget is getting
32:51
smaller and we've already spent all this money on the grinder in
32:55
the espresso machine. So we always recommend people
32:57
spend the money on the grinder first.
32:59
Because whether you're growing you to model where you have this
33:01
big flat Burr and you're creating this singular, particle
33:04
size and trying to extract all the same or whether you're
33:07
getting a bimodal grinder, which is usually going to be conical
33:10
Burr grinder, which is just a different style of Burr grinder
33:13
and it tends to produce two different sized particles, which
33:16
are generally thought to be very good for espresso.
33:19
Because one of those particle size is significantly smaller
33:23
and so it more easily create a puck that resists, the pressure
33:28
because those smaller particles sort of fill in the gaps between
33:32
the bigger particles. But effectively, what that does
33:36
is it creates a more viscous heavier, bodied espresso, where
33:42
the big flat Burr Grinders create, a more watery espresso
33:46
with a little bit more clarity. And so you'll find people, would
33:50
you say that the saree did saree there?
33:53
Why would you say that the, I've always thought of the right
33:58
grinder for at home to be the conical one.
34:01
Just based on what I've learned from you and from others.
34:04
It sounds to me like you're saying that the flat bird would
34:08
be the best for espresso only but maybe the conical would be
34:13
better for a more versatile usage.
34:18
Or know what you really find is that people really like one of
34:21
the other generally, for either drip, or for for espresso and I
34:26
support both kinds of grinder in all kinds of ways.
34:29
I like comical birds for espresso, and for drip, I like
34:33
flappers for espresso and for drip.
34:35
And I think that I'm a little unusual in that I think people
34:38
tend to have ones that they like more.
34:41
I do choose flat Burr, Grinders more often for my purposes
34:47
commercially. But all the grounders I have in
34:49
my home or all conical and it's not really because I think that
34:53
they're better because they're conical, it just is just
34:56
happening with those the Grinders that I have.
34:59
I think for home Grinders you do tend to see conical a little bit
35:03
more often just because they're gonna be able to grind a larger
35:08
amount of coffee using a smaller footprint for the machine, get
35:14
more surface area, riding service area with conical Burr.
35:18
Herbs in a smaller diameter. So if you have 40, mm, conical
35:23
Birds. That's a huge ver set as a ton
35:25
of service area to grind the coffee on, but you're going to
35:31
get a similar service area to grind on with like 100
35:35
millimeter flat verse set. And so, if you're trying to
35:40
house 100, mm of Burrs, that's a fairly large width to the
35:45
machine, you know, at least compared to 40 millimeters.
35:48
And so, you have a lot more room in your machine for sort of
35:50
other other things. So, I think engineering wise to
35:54
produce an affordable home machine that also fits in like a
35:58
nice kitchen footprint. You find a little bit more often
36:01
you'll find comical Burns. But You know, ultimately, it's
36:05
really just a choice that you can make, and I don't really
36:09
feel like you have to fall in one or the other, but if you're
36:12
an espresso person, if you really love espresso, you
36:15
probably will love either really higher Clarity, larger volume
36:21
less body shots from a flat Burr grinder, or you'll like more
36:26
viscous more syrupy. Little bit more.
36:29
Muddled flavor and more homogenized, flavor of a conical
36:33
Burr. Elsa.
36:34
And I'm not saying that one is better than the other.
36:36
I think they both. They both work great.
36:39
It's just kind of your Styles. And so what you prefer Sure.
36:43
And I would refer back to we did a grinder test, a couple years
36:48
back. And one thing I would say with
36:51
that was that I would bring up now and saying, as we're
36:55
discussing this one, you start thinking about the cost of your
37:02
coffee, experience at home versus in the shop and this is
37:07
one of those areas where I say it's worth it, to do the
37:09
research, spend more money if you need to, but try not to Ben,
37:13
just because something is on sale or discounted because The
37:18
the failings of some of the let's say, lesser lesser
37:24
equipped machines are dramatic. When it comes to the coffee
37:27
flavor, that's going to come out at the end of at the end of the
37:29
day. So you really take that into
37:32
account when you're thinking about it that.
37:34
Yeah, I want to do this at home and to make it worth it.
37:38
I also wanted to taste good at home.
37:40
This is what I got to do to make that happen and decide for
37:43
yourself, if that is the path you want to go.
37:45
Yeah, so, you know, It's pretty cool.
37:48
How accessible home espresso has become, you know, as far as the
37:53
machines go. But espresso machines, but the
37:57
nice thing that we're seeing, like, now, like right now, is
38:00
that the Grinders are now becoming more and more
38:02
accessible as well. So in the last, you know, 10
38:05
years have been a couple Grinders that have come out that
38:08
really have changed the, the home espresso scene for the
38:12
better, my make it much more accessible.
38:15
And it's, it's funny because the price tag on this Grinders and
38:18
them seems, you know, like a jaw drop two people that just aren't
38:21
used to these things. But with the 20 years Breeze to
38:24
experience, you know, and I just couldn't get an espresso machine
38:28
or espresso grinder for home for under $1000 10 years ago.
38:33
You just couldn't. Like if you got one that was
38:35
less than that, you're supposed to just would never be very
38:38
good. Like there's just no way to do
38:39
it and nowadays. There's there's there's options
38:43
and there's there's plenty of options and, you know, I I said
38:48
thousand dollars and there were Grinders, you know, ten years
38:50
ago, that could do espresso. That was okay back then.
38:54
But nowadays we just have, we have options and some of them
38:57
are pretty. Pretty fantastic.
38:59
And I think the most famous one right now, it's shaken things
39:04
up. And I remember, I had a friend
39:06
who got one when they're very new and they're still sort of.
39:10
They're sort of not quite hard to get but you gotta wait for it
39:13
is it's called The Niche 0 and the News 0 is really interesting
39:17
grinder. It's very small.
39:19
It's fairly quiet. It can do anything from French
39:22
press to Espresso which is, you know, very unusual.
39:25
It's conical Burr set. but it doesn't have any like real bells
39:29
and whistles, you have to weigh out your coffee, before you put
39:32
it in the in the grinder you put it in the grinder and you grind
39:35
it and it comes out and then you have to load it into your
39:37
portafilter and your poor over and there's no there's no timer,
39:40
there's no scale, there's no like There's no real bells and
39:45
whistles to it. But, you know, when I used to
39:49
work a very busy high-end Cafe, we used these espresso Grinders
39:54
that were kind of the gold standard for most commercial
39:57
espresso Grinders. We used Mauser, espresso,
39:59
Grinders, Mac, Zer and Mauser espresso Grinders, make good
40:05
espresso and they have a couple different models.
40:07
And some of the models are sort of more famous than others, but
40:10
the lowest model that's, you know, kind of most popular is
40:13
called the Super jolly and it's a flat Burr grinder, but it
40:17
pushes coffee out of the grind chamber and it sort of pushes it
40:20
down this channel into your collection chamber, or into your
40:23
portafilter, and so coffee tends to get kind of caught up in this
40:26
chamber, or on this channel. And so that's what we call grind
40:30
retention. And then the next model up from
40:33
that was the Kony. And the Coney had this conical
40:37
Burr set that created, you know. Excellent, excellent grounds.
40:40
And it was bimodal but it was very, very finely machine.
40:44
And and the Conan could do a fair amount of volume but it
40:46
wasn't the fastest grinder they had.
40:48
They had the Rober I think was the next one up and the Rover,
40:53
the Burr, diameter was bigger, still comical Burrs the because
40:57
that a bigger Bursa, it could grind even faster.
41:01
But the interesting thing was the the Rober and the next one
41:03
up from that the major the grime quality that came out of those
41:07
Burrs those birds weren't is finally machined as the Coney
41:11
They all have the problem of retention.
41:13
So if you change your grind, setting on one of these, Mauser
41:15
Grinders, you have to purge of to grind a couple shots before
41:20
you see, any changes in the grind setting, but the Coney had
41:24
the best first set of all of them.
41:25
It was not the biggest but it had the, my finest Machining.
41:29
So the niche zero actually uses the grind the birth set from the
41:34
Mauser Coney. And it has zero retention, so
41:38
you change the grind setting and immediately, the next coffee,
41:40
grind through is changed. So it's called The Niche zero in
41:44
this grinder. I think costs think when it was
41:46
new and it was still a Kickstarter was like 500 bucks.
41:49
And now I think it's like seven eight hundred but it's
41:53
commercial level espresso. I mean this this Coney grinder
41:56
was like a three thousand dollar grinder to three thousand
41:58
dollars at least and now you can get it for under $1000 at home.
42:03
And it eliminates some of the flaws in the commercial version,
42:06
And I mean not that they're made by the same company at all,
42:08
because they're not, but it just is a great example of how
42:12
espresso is changed at home and why you invest your money in
42:16
that and that grinder because a grinder like the niche zero or
42:20
you know, like the Urbana kind of that we have in our shop for
42:22
sale for home or the DF 64. That I just recommended a friend
42:27
of mine, get for his home set up.
42:29
You know, any of these Grinders are under a thousand dollars
42:32
from a under 500. And they can produce incredible
42:36
espresso at home either a conical or flat Burr.
42:39
That's really comparable to what you get in the shop and all
42:43
those espresso machines are going to kind of do pretty much
42:45
the same job. They might look a little fancy.
42:47
They might have, you know, a feature or two.
42:50
Then another one doesn't have. There might be things that you
42:52
want in your espresso machine, you want to spend that extra
42:55
money but if you really want to have a bare-bones espresso setup
42:58
at home you can have that for a price that's half what you used
43:03
to pay ten years ago. Ago, and you can get quality,
43:06
that's as good as you can get in a cafe, if you can get your
43:10
personal Barista skills to get there.
43:13
I feel right now the same way that I feel when I talk to
43:19
people that are really into bicycles and there's a lot of
43:25
specs and a lot of technical knowledge and I think it's just
43:31
one of those things where you can create a baseline of
43:35
knowledge and these are some generalities but when it comes
43:37
down to it, I think what you're saying is we have a lot of
43:40
options right now and Nobody's going to have their different
43:45
threshold for what they're willing to spend or not spend or
43:48
and I would also add in time because if you are making
43:52
espresso and things at home, there's going to be more time
43:56
spent either just doing the process of grinding and and
44:01
maintaining that espresso machine, each day.
44:04
Especially if you're doing it like before.
44:06
Work to go somewhere now, probably still less than the
44:10
amount of time you might spend to go to a coffee shop but, you
44:13
know, you're still the one doing it.
44:14
And so, there's just all these little different things that
44:16
will impact somebody's decision on whether or not they want to
44:19
do that. For me.
44:21
I have a little tiny Galley kitchen, so I actually have my
44:25
grinder, the grinder that I have set up like, on a rolling cart,
44:29
like in the living room that I have to go get, you know, in the
44:32
mornings and so I'm not interested in in adding more
44:36
things to my countertops. This point.
44:38
I actually, I don't think I would be, but even if I wanted
44:42
to, so it's just a really, it's just a whole new kind of
44:48
consumer ability that we just didn't have a few years ago, and
44:53
I would have never even thought to do until recently.
44:55
Yeah, well, you know, it's a, it's a cool privilege that we
44:58
have but it's incredible. The, you know, you have me on
45:02
here is your copy of smarter guy or whatever.
45:04
I'm just you know, telling you about things that smarter people
45:07
than me have been doing. You know it's it's amazing
45:10
engineering that's gone into making the stuff more accessible
45:14
but it's funny because people still drop that job these price
45:17
tags but I can just see it with this perspective of 20 years and
45:21
see how much it's changed. You know, I just took a trip
45:25
recently and I brought my coffee grinder with me.
45:28
I have a hand grinder and I have a high Precision hand grinder,
45:31
as well as a cheapo one. And I that, The Precision one
45:34
that I brought with me and cost, like, $300, but you can make
45:38
espresso on it. If you want to sit there and you
45:40
want to crank the grinder by hand, you can make great
45:43
espresso on the scruncher. It's been tested, it's a
45:46
fantastic. Fantastic machine, is that why
45:49
you're wearing a sling today? Yes, yes, yes.
45:52
That's why I'm not actually wearing a sling, by the way, for
45:55
anybody listening, but I was massaging.
45:59
Don't ruin the picture. I'm painting here, Chris, well,
46:03
before before I Let you go today.
46:05
I just want to ask you, what is your favorite coffee to make
46:10
espresso with, or if you had to be kind of more General about
46:13
it, whether it's a medium light, dark roast a richer Fuller,
46:18
Sumatra or Ethiopia. What is it that you like if you
46:22
were to walk into a shop and you saw the saw something on the
46:25
thing to be like, oh yeah, that's what I want.
46:27
All right. So there's a bunch of ways I
46:29
could answer this but I'm actually very happy with this
46:33
because I love I love to drink Ethiopia espressos.
46:36
I love fruit and coffee in general and I love to drink a
46:41
really good Ethiopia stress. If I can get an Ethiopian
46:43
natural as an espresso, I love that.
46:45
I love a big berry flavor in there.
46:48
I'm not crazy about pulling them because I find them to be a
46:50
little bit tricky to get a good shot out of, but I love them.
46:55
I do love pulling, you know, of coffee that I know, will kind of
46:59
make anyone happy, you know, I love pulling our Costa Rica and
47:02
just sending someone off knowing that they're going to be stoked
47:07
with that no matter who they are.
47:08
But I remember when I was first working at Bird Rock in the
47:13
first couple years I was there, I was being trained by this guy
47:16
and we were working out of a quieter closing shift and he,
47:20
you know, trim it taught me a bunch of things about coffee and
47:23
espresso and we We're able to pull an espresso out of a
47:27
Sumatra coffee. We had at the time, a Sumatra
47:30
Lake to our coffee. That was, you know, very highly
47:33
regarded and really good and I'm really both tasted it.
47:38
We thought it was so cool at this brown sugar and molasses
47:41
and it had these herbs and spices a little bit of like
47:44
raisin and fig. And, you know, we talked about
47:48
serving it as we didn't have any authority to serve anything that
47:52
we were, you know. But we talked about sir, Serving
47:55
it and I remember this, this Brewster those training me.
47:59
You know, he was one of those pretty pretentious Baristas by
48:02
the end but he made this you know kind of ridiculous.
48:05
Comment of I don't think the average customer would
48:08
understand it and uh and you know it's funny because we pull
48:13
single origin. Sumatra's our shop pretty often.
48:16
We just put up a new one. On our in-house roasted Sumatra,
48:20
just got put on espresso and I love it and so many other people
48:25
love it and that guy was just so wrong.
48:29
A really good Sumatra is kind of this really weird.
48:33
Cool, espresso that like that, a lot of different coffee drinkers
48:38
will like, but it's still unique.
48:40
And so I've I don't know if I've ever seen a single origin
48:43
espresso at another shop. But if I did see one on a menu,
48:48
I think I would absolutely order that.
48:50
I mean, I tend to order single origin espresso whatever shop
48:53
pulls but if I were to go to a shop like mine if there were one
48:57
out there that pulled six different kinds of espresso, So
48:59
and I saw some mantras on, that's probably what I would
49:02
pick because I just think that's it's such a cool weird coffee.
49:07
So different from what you get from other espressos with that
49:09
savory aspect, you got a lot of Sumatra in espresso Blends.
49:13
It's also a very soluble origin generally, so it's very easy to
49:16
extract usually. So I wouldn't feel bad for the
49:19
Barista asked to pull me the shot.
49:22
I find it to be pretty forgiving.
49:24
Yeah, I'll definitely order a Sumatra espresso, if I had to
49:28
pick one, I love that because I'm a Sumatra person.
49:31
Personally, that's always been my favorite.
49:33
Although I've been transitioning probably because of the
49:36
influence of people like you to start enjoying more fruity or
49:40
coffees. But I want to finish today with
49:43
one last question, I obviously tell people to go to coffee
49:46
cycle and you're on the show. And we're always saying, you
49:49
know, Chris had coffee cycle and promoting you.
49:52
Thank you. Not, because they me or anything
49:55
but just because I like doing it, I don't even pay you for
49:57
this. I noticed But I wanted to, I
50:01
wanted to give you a chance to pay it forward a little bit.
50:04
If you were to say to recommend to someone to go get an espresso
50:07
somewhere else, what's another shop?
50:08
You'd shout out. I mean I got a shout out a scent
50:12
o when I know we've mentioned him on this on.
50:15
This was formed before. But you know, I just said if
50:18
there were another shop that existed, that pulled four or
50:20
five kinds of espresso and I had a Sumatra, well, guess what, as
50:24
Luis Sanchez and his acento coffee, roasters does pull.
50:29
Five different kinds of espresso, and he does have a
50:30
Sumatra, and it's fantastic, and I would definitely recommend
50:34
going there. There's a bunch of other great
50:37
shops in this city. I love them.
50:39
The ones that I don't get too often enough that I really love
50:42
or, you know, scrimshaw is a great shot, but I'd love to love
50:45
to get down to more often. There's just a bunch, there's
50:49
just a ton and, you know, just support your local coffee scene.
50:52
That's, that's all. And if you find a local coffee
50:55
shop that you love and you go there all the time, even if it's
50:59
coffee cycle, just treat yourself to a change and go
51:02
somewhere else. It's also local for for change.
51:05
You know, try something because everyone who puts in the effort
51:09
to create a shop deserves, a little bit of a little bit of
51:12
support almost everyone. I also like acento and I've been
51:17
there many times as long as it's not Sunday.
51:20
Oh, because Louis cyr's our sons so you can't get yours for some.
51:23
Don't want us on. That's right.
51:26
He deserves that. I wonder if Louis listens to the
51:29
show, we're going to find out, I think.
51:31
Chris, thank you so much for being here.
51:33
One more time. We really went way further into
51:36
that than I expected and that's always awesome.
51:38
I know, I appreciate it and I know our listeners, appreciate
51:41
it. I didn't get a chance to tell
51:43
you this off are, but I recently had a listener reach out, and
51:46
ask me about storing coffee and I refer them back to a show.
51:50
We did in the first season about storing coffee and whether you
51:54
should or shouldn't put in the freezer and I'm going to link to
51:56
that so other people can listen to it.
51:58
And he sent me a photo back, another photo of his, the coffee
52:02
that he had ordered and like the way he had it stored in the
52:04
whole thing and he was so excited to have that knowledge
52:07
for himself. Oh that's such a cool thing that
52:10
we can provide me. That's awesome.
52:12
That's great. Thanks, thank you and I'll talk
52:16
to you soon, Buddy to recap when you see the term espresso and a
52:27
bag of Coffee beans. It is referring to a style of
52:30
preparation, not a particular style of coffee.
52:33
Bean espresso is a coffee brewing technique in which fine
52:37
coffee grinds are compacted into a hockey puck looking thing.
52:40
And then hot water is forced through those grinds, using
52:44
pressure and pulling or extracting coffee flavor and
52:47
oils with it, as it finds its way out.
52:50
The bottom, the basket container, those grinds are held
52:53
in during this process is called a, portafilter the holes in the
52:57
bottom of the basket. Will guide the coffee to a
52:59
singular point to drain down into a glass.
53:02
It's a cool process to watch and I'll share a video of it in the
53:05
newsletter, which you can find at roast westcoast.com.
53:09
I'll also cover a lot of vocab in this week's post share
53:12
examples of hand pressurized espresso machines that have as
53:15
Chris so. Eloquently put it a spinny crank
53:19
arm. I'll even include a list of
53:21
coffee grinders that offer a lot of value for the money if you
53:24
are looking to grind at home but not looking to break the bank.
53:27
Just Yet, I want to thank you for listening today, and for
53:30
supporting your local coffee roasters.
53:33
There are so many great coffee roasters, and coffee shops out
53:35
there, and I am trying to get to them all, but it is hard to do
53:39
when this Show's industry Partners also make such great
53:42
coffee and whiskey. So a special thanks to Cafe
53:45
lechera, moster Coffee Company, leap coffee, Maria coffee
53:49
steady-state, coffee roasting coffee cycle, roasting Camp,
53:52
Coffee Company, Cape Horn coffee, importers first light
53:56
whiskey, zoom bar, Coffee and Tea.
53:57
Tea and ignite Coffee Company. Tyler Whitehead, the founder at
54:01
ignite coffee company has some big Coffee News, which he is
54:04
going to share with us during the next roast West Coast
54:07
interview episode. And if you haven't already heard
54:10
it, please go back a few days. And listen to the Chad Bell, of
54:13
Achilles Coffee. Roasters interview that came out
54:16
earlier this week, Chad was a great guest, and if you're
54:19
interested in entrepreneurship and how the industry may be
54:22
adapting to the current employment Market, you
54:25
definitely don't want to miss it.
54:27
Links to all of the great industry.
54:28
Partner Roasters are right there on the front page of this shows
54:31
newsletter had roast westcoast.com.
54:33
And if you have a question, you want answered on a future
54:36
episode of coffee smarter hit us up on Instagram at roast West
54:40
Coast. Speaking of Kim, I got that
54:43
answer for you. Once you practice your steaming
54:46
and frothing of milk, you cannot reach ill and use that milk
54:49
again. The proteins have been broken
54:51
down too much and it will not reconstitute in a way that will
54:54
functionally enable you to keep practicing.
54:56
Saying however a recommendation from several coffee.
54:59
Experts and pro Baristas that I consulted suggested using cold
55:04
water with a squirt of unscented hand soap.
55:06
This will help you save some money and be a fairly decent
55:09
substitute that mimics a similar foaming reaction during the
55:12
steaming process next week Jared Hales of Hosea coffee source is
55:17
rejoining the show but this time as a coffee expert, we're going
55:21
to talk about buying green coffee for beginners if you've
55:25
ever thought about roasting your own.
55:26
Coffee, you won't want to miss this because it all starts with
55:29
the green bean. This episode of the roast West
55:33
Coast coffee podcast is was has been written produced and
55:36
recorded by me. Ryan won't I hope this show is
55:40
found you happy healthy and with at least enough sanity and
55:43
coffee to make it through the day.
55:45
And please always tip your Baristas and be sure to drink
55:50
good coffee. Hey there, if you liked this
56:16
episode of the roast West Coast coffee podcast, I just wanted to
56:19
let you know, we now have tip your Barista stickers available
56:22
online. Check out the most recent post
56:25
on roast westcoast.com to get yours and I'll be tipping a
56:28
barista for every sticker sold. And if you want more and more
56:32
coffee content, while you're there, please consider buying us
56:35
a cup of coffee or signing up for a paid subscription to the
56:39
roast West Coast coffee newsletter.
56:40
That'd be really cool and with enough subscribers like you we'd
56:44
be able to focus. So I'm creating coffee content
56:46
all day everyday. Subscriptions are the best way
56:50
to show appreciation for the show just how to roast
56:53
westcoast.com to subscribe or leave a tip.
56:57
Thanks for listening everyone.