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Closing the Gender Gap on US Boards of Directors · Choppin’ It Up by Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Chopping It Up. I'm your host, Michael Halen,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the senior restaurant and food Service analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Today we're joined by Jocelyn Mangan, CEO and founder Him
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: for Her. She also serves as a board member at
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Papa John's, Chow Now and wag Labs. Thanks for doing this, Jocelyn.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation. You have an
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: impressive career history. Can you tell us a bit about
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: your experience and how you were inspired to found Him
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: for Her?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Sure, so, you know, I would explain my career experience
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: almost a journey of serendipity, although through line is a
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: love of restaurants, which you can probably follow. So I
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: actually started my career as a restaurant writer in Nashville,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Tennessee for a company called city Search for those who
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: are listening and remember city Search, and really grew up
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: in technology from the birth of the Internet and really
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: fell in love with the idea providing technology to businesses,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: especially restaurants. Where you know, I spent a decade at
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Open Table and at that time, besides the point of
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: sales system we were one of the first pieces of
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: technology to go into those businesses. But I founded him
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: for her when I became a fellow out of the
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Aspen Institute, and it's a fellowship that tasks its fellows
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: with starting a venture they think will be world changing.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: And I started him for as a project, and it
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: really was inspired by you know, I wanted to do
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: something around the concept of women at work. That's a
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: big category. There's a lot of areas you can focus on,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and I chose the boardroom. And I chose the boardroom
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: because I'd been in the boardroom and I had seen
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: firsthand the power of the decisions made there. In fact,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I was invited to pitch an idea in the boardroom
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: at twenty eight that sent me to London and changed
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: my life forever. But then ever since, I've been brought
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: in just as you know, the product person to present
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: to the board and ultimately you know, I'm now a
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: board member. But when I looked at the data, I
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  Speaker 2: saw it was mostly men and knew immediately we needed
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: their partnership. So I went and interviewed ninety of those
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: male executive board members to learn more, and I learned
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  Speaker 2: two things that really shaped our approach, which is one
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  Speaker 2: everyone I talked to wanted to help, they just didn't
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  Speaker 2: know how. But the second thing I learned was when
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I asked them how they found their last board member,
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  Speaker 2: I got a personal network story. So the big AHA was,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: you know, there's no pipeline shortage of talent, but there
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: is a network problem, and we've got to close that
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  Speaker 2: network gap if we if we want to solve board diversity.
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  Speaker 2: So we're about four and a half years in and
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  Speaker 2: we focus on solving board diversity with different programs that
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: we that we support. The first is is we actually
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: host roundtables, many of them are dinners, and we bring
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: together people that wouldn't have otherwise met wouldn't have otherwise
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: met each other, and and in the spirit of having
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: conversations that foster new business relationships and that you know,
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  Speaker 2: people who want to sit on boards can meet people
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: who put people on boards and broaden those networks of considerations.
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  Speaker 2: The second thing we do is we build curated referrals
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  Speaker 2: for board openings for free, and we partner with investment
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  Speaker 2: firms and we've grown a network that that's pretty impressive
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: and I can share more of those numbers. But I'll
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: pause there.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's fantastic. It's it's a great cause. And
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and you know, I'm going to paraphrase here, but one
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  Speaker 1: of the companies I cover, assist Go, and their CEO,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Kevin Hurrikan set in an interview recently increasing diversificate diversification
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  Speaker 1: isn't about hiring people that are less qualified. It's about
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  Speaker 1: casting a wider net in their search for great employees.
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  Speaker 1: I thought that was a great way to say it
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  Speaker 1: and to look at it, you know, and it sounds
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  Speaker 1: very similar obviously to what you're doing. You know, maybe
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  Speaker 1: if you could talk about some of those statistics that
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  Speaker 1: you that you just mentioned in terms of current composition
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: of the boards.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so when you look at the boardroom today, you've
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  Speaker 2: got public companies in private company as they just passed
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  Speaker 2: an article this week that said thirty three percent or
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  Speaker 2: women of the past thirty three percent of the Fortune
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  Speaker 2: five hundred board members, which is good. We do a
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: study of the private boards because when we started the company,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: we couldn't find the data, and those statistics are a
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: little more daunting. So a third of our most high
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  Speaker 2: growth private boards are still all male wards and only
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: one in seven is a woman. And also when you
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  Speaker 2: look at the percentage of women of colors four percent.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, we did the study last year it was
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  Speaker 2: three percent. There was actually more board members named Dave
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  Speaker 2: than women of color, and in this year's study that changed,
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  Speaker 2: but it only took up that one percent. So there's
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of room to grow there. There's a lot
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  Speaker 2: of work to do, and that's kind of the market statistics,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the statistics that we can share. We've grown. So we've
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: done those roundtables. I've mentioned dinners and remote we've done those,
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  Speaker 2: you know, about one hundred and forty five times across
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: the country and across the globe, and we've built a
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: network of almost seven thousand board ready women. Over a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: third of those are women of color. In March, we
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: celebrated one hundred board placements and so we're above that
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  Speaker 2: now because we're talking in June, I think we're at
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: one oh five. But our work is working, and it's
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: exactly what that CEO said. You know, most people want
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: thisdtional skill set on their boards. You know, a lot
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  Speaker 2: of times we're adding that first independent, that first operator
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  Speaker 2: on these private boards. A lot of times it's a founder,
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  Speaker 2: a CEO and a bunch of investors, which is is
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  Speaker 2: how most companies start. And at some point you start
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  Speaker 2: to add in those independents and that operating skill set
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  Speaker 2: that enhances the conversation, that broadens the conversation. And there's
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  Speaker 2: enough people out there who are women that fit the
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  Speaker 2: need of all the open board seats. It's just a
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  Speaker 2: matter of expanding your network, which sounds easy or simple.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I should say it doesn't sound easy, but it sounds simple.
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  Speaker 2: It isn't that easy. And so you know, because a
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: lot of times people want to form a relationship with
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: someone before they place them on the board. So where
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: are they going to go find them in that context?
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: And so that's really what we found is so many
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: people who played it back to us. You know, they
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: met their board member at a dinner or you know,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: a golf course or you know, some kind of weekend
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: get away with the investment firm. And so really what
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: we did is we've built a system that builds relationship
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  Speaker 2: at scale. Very cool.
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  Speaker 1: All right, So when I'm analyzing one of the companies,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I cover what should I be looking at to determine
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  Speaker 1: if the board is truly independent and competent?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I guess competence. You know, that's if
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  Speaker 2: you're not meeting the people or sitting in the boardrooms,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: you're making some assumptions from what you can read, I
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: would guess. But I think there's a way to look
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: at a board and see, you know, given what you
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: can read about people's backgrounds, I mean, you can see
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  Speaker 2: if there's a level of diversity. You can see, you know,
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  Speaker 2: how many people have the same background. So you know,
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  Speaker 2: I just was talking about a private board, right, and
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: when you have all investors in a CEO, it's pretty obvious, right,
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  Speaker 2: investors have a similar background. It's not a bad background
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  Speaker 2: at all, but it's not as diverse as then all
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  Speaker 2: of a sudden you aud of someone who comes from
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: a marketing background or someone who comes from a sales background.
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  Speaker 2: So when I would look at a board, if how
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: were you, I'd look at as an ecosystem, right, an
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  Speaker 2: ecosystem of who's already there, and what's the gap or
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  Speaker 2: is there a gap? Right? And who's already there made
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  Speaker 2: up of the CEO, and what's that CEO's background. Not
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  Speaker 2: every CEO has the same operating background. And then what
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  Speaker 2: as you look around the board, what are their backgrounds.
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  Speaker 2: Do you have eight retired CEOs that's not the you know,
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  Speaker 2: that's a similar background, and so maybe you're looking for
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  Speaker 2: something different there. So I think you're looking for a
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  Speaker 2: well rounded ecosystem that maps to the strategy of the
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  Speaker 2: company that you're that you're analyzing what you expect that
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  Speaker 2: company might need over the next three years.
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  Speaker 1: That's great, and how can companies build a high functioning board?
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  Speaker 2: So it kind of starts with that map. So I
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  Speaker 2: think the best way to build a high functioning board
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  Speaker 2: is to take a take inventory of what you're starting with. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: what is the background on the CEO from the existing board?
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  Speaker 2: What are their skill sets? But then you need to
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  Speaker 2: ask the question, you know, as we sit here and
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  Speaker 2: we think about our company three years from now, whose
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  Speaker 2: advice would we want, like, right, what skill set would
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  Speaker 2: we want to have in these discussions over the next
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  Speaker 2: three years. And I think if you have that discussion
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  Speaker 2: with your boards, those will become obvious. And then it's
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  Speaker 2: a matter of Okay, now that we know what those
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  Speaker 2: gaps are, let's go meet some people that have that background,
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  Speaker 2: and let's make sure when we meet those people that
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  Speaker 2: we include, you know, candidates that you know are come
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  Speaker 2: from a different background than what we are already starting with.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, great, generally speaking, Are there any particular areas that
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  Speaker 1: board of directors are coming up short when it comes
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  Speaker 1: to running successful restaurant chains?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I haven't before this podcast looked across all the
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  Speaker 2: boards of all the restaurant chains, but just from the
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  Speaker 2: statistics that I shared with you, I would guess that
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  Speaker 2: there's a lot of gender diversity that might be missing.
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  Speaker 2: I think if you look at race and ethnicity, that's
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  Speaker 2: another one to look at, and you have to think
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  Speaker 2: about who's the customer at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 2: who are the people who are eating in these restaurants,
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  Speaker 2: and does the board have a connection to that customer
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  Speaker 2: on the board, you know, from a representation standpoint. So
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  Speaker 2: I would say, you know, some of those basics perhaps,
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  Speaker 2: but I think it would be hard to put every
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: single restaurant next to one another. Going back to the
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  Speaker 2: ecosystem comment earlier, right, I don't know that the people
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: sitting on the restaurant access board have the same background
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  Speaker 2: as restaurant wise board. So it really takes that double
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  Speaker 2: clicking down into who are they and what are their backgrounds,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: and then what is that restaurant strategy. Are they looking
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  Speaker 2: to just grow? Are they going to go and do
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: a bunch of M and A? Are they going to merge? Right?
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  Speaker 2: So I think a lot of that really plays into
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  Speaker 2: what does that need? And so I don't think all
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: restaurants are like that way.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good answer. I appreciate that. I guess
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  Speaker 1: what I was kind of getting at to is like technology,
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  Speaker 1: did they have enough technology minded people on the boards,
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  Speaker 1: especially in the last you know, considering that over the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: last three years, pretty much every chain that I cover
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  Speaker 1: or I've spoken to has completely re vamped their operations
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to do more digital and delivery and kind of all
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, we're probably going to get
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: to this, but the pace of technology with the arrival
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: of AI is way faster than it's ever been. So
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  Speaker 2: I think it'd be impossible to say that all the
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  Speaker 2: boards have what they need to anticipate that world. I
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  Speaker 2: think that's beyond restaurants, that's all boards. It's just moving
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: so fast. So I do think, you know, having an
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  Speaker 2: awareness of the pace of AI and asking the questions
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  Speaker 2: around how is this going to both disrupt our industry
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: and how is it going to enhance our industry? Where
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: are those areas that we can be exploring. I think
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  Speaker 2: that is a board level discussion because it's strategic.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, And as I mentioned at the top, you're
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: a member of the compensation committee at chow now, so
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: this has been an interesting question for me. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: there's been a big push over the last couple of
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: decades to bonus management out based on numbers that better
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: reflect the actual health of the business.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: For example, more restaurant companies are bonusing out on operating
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: income growth versus EPs growth, right because EPs growth can
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: be manipulated just by aggressively buying backshare. So is increasing
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: diversity among corporate employees something that management teams should be
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: compensated for. So it's clearly a good thing and something
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that's needed. But should management members be getting paid a
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: bonus based on or at least partially based on number one?
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  Speaker 1: Something they can control that's not performance based and number
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: two is something that they should have been doing all along.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a fair question. You know, it's
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: kind of one of those things, you know, I think
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that you could have asked that question across esg right,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and not just diversity, and should you being towards ESG
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: and knowing that companies should be doing, you know, the
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: right thing for the environment, the right thing for diversity
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: within their companies is pay incentives the right way to
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: get it done, And isn't the only way to get
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: it done? Is how I would answer that question. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I think one thing is is you can't change what
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: you don't measure. I think what's difficult is some of
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: these things, you know, especially in the E category, we're
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: still learning how to measure, and so I think tying
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: pay to something that's hard to measure or that isn't
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: within your control is hard. I also think equally that
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: tying pay to something that maybe should just be part
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: of the culture is probably a better you know, I
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: think it's probably better to find the business metrics and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: to make some of the things, especially as it relates
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: to diversity. It can be part of the overall culture
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: and you can still measure it, right. It doesn't mean
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: that you can just say it's part of the culture
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and not measure it. But I don't think you have
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: to tie pay to it to get it done.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, you know, with this big push that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: we've had over the last few years and towards ESG.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of these questions being kind
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of bounced around, you know, and it's sometimes it's frustrating
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: because I feel like, you know, whether it's on the
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: governance or the environmental part or social whatever, it is
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: something you know, me and some of the other analysts
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that I work with feel that it's just like a
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: one track mind and we're only looking at one variable
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: when there's a whole litany of things that we kind
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of need to be looking at to do this and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: analyze these companies on an ESG level correctly.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's complicated, you know, it's three short letters
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: that stand for lots of things.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, And as I mentioned, you're
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: also a member of Papa John's board. So what should
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Papa John's and other boards be looking at when it
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: comes to restaurant technology right now?
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: So I do think, you know, asking questions around AI,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: how is this, how could this enhance what we do?
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I think restaurants increasingly are going to want technology. If
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: you if you really take a giant set back, why
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: do restaurants exist? And it's to make customers happy. It's
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, people eat food for joy and pleasure and
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: sharing experiences, especially when they're going to restaurants, and so
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: you know, there's so many inefficiencies and getting food out
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: of a restaurant to you know, a hungry consumer out
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: in the world. And I think most restaurants are looking
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: at where technology can increase hospitality where you know, Danny Meyer,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: who's one of my favorite people in the world, he
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: always says, you know, high tech, high touch, And I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: think that's what's beautiful about restaurants is that you can't
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: automate at all. It's very much a human experience, and
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: so I think the magic of the restaurant industry will
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: be to figure out how to not over automate or
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: under automate to create that magical consumer experience. And that's
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: for you know, everything from from fast food all the
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: way to find dining. You know, I think especially now
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: with I have an eleven and a twelve year old,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: and their attention spans, you know, their expectation of like
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: if I want this, how quickly it comes and then
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: it comes hot and then it comes the way you
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: ordered it. And that sounds so you know fair, but
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: it's super hard when you open the hood and you
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: look in and you see all the things that have
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: to go right, and you've got you know, direct to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: restaurant and you've got aggregate, and so there's just a
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: lot of opportunity to look at the technology that's supporting
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: all that so that the consumer doesn't have to feel
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: that pain.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see that the
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: different levels of automation we're going to see at different
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: types of chains. Right, we would expect to see a
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: lot more at the quick service restaurants than we're going
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: to see at fine dining.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I think there's most people out there are always going
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: to want a waiter or waitress, you know, a great
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: server to take care of them on like a big
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: night out right, a birthday.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's different from I did just try the robot
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: coffee at the San Francisco Airport and there's not a
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: human to be insight and it's you know, it's it's
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: a fun thing to do. But the coffee was really good.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: And that's the kind of thing where it's really handy
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: because you're racing to your flight. That's very different from
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you know, your a night on the town. You've taken
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: a while to pick the restaurant, although that's a place
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: that maybe AI could help us, right is selecting the restaurant.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: But then once you get there, Yeah, you want to
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: talk to someone and not look at your phone the
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: whole time and probably not order from your phone the
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: whole time, and you know, have a conversation with another
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: human being.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. You know you mentioned chat, you mentioned AI,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and so with the rise of chat GBT, you know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: it's been such a hot topic on Wall Street right now,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: even though it's been around for quite some time. You know,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: we've been partnering with cognovy Labs, I think since twenty sixteen.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: It's an AI and machine learning company that analyzes tweets
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: for us, helps us get an idea from marketing. So
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: this is not something new, but it's the new hot thing.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Where do you see the biggest opportunities for restaurant chains
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to leverage AI and machine and learning in the restaurant space.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I it's been around for a while. I
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: think a lot of companies have found use cases for it.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I think that's different from it being a significant part
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: of the future growth of not only what's happening inside
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: of the companies we know of, but it's being used
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to invent things we haven't seen yet. So I think,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: you know, there's the immediate like what do I think
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: immediately it should help within the restaurant industry, And then
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: there's the what is it going to show us we
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: don't even know how to see yet. I think those
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: are probably two different questions. On the first one, I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: really do think anything that helps speed up, you know,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: time of delivery of food is a big one, right
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: because again going back to that kind of Amazon mentality
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: of I ordered it today, it should get here tonight.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: The food expectation is very high. You know, I want
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: the order to be right, I want it to be hot,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: and want it to be ston you know, all sorts
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: of I want to order from multiple restaurants for my group.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I know all that's possible today. But there I'm sure
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it's happened to you. Right. Sometimes it doesn't land how
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I just described it, And when you look at why
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: that is, there are so much where I believe AI
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: could make that experience better. I also think it will
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: be interesting to see how it helps us discover restaurants
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: because it is a process today to figure out where
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: you're going to go if you're not going to your
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: local or the obvious, And so I do think there's
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: an opportunity there to make that experience a lot easier
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: or maybe even more magical than it is today unless linear.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Very cool, very cool things to look forward to, right yes,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: all right, great, thanks thanks again for doing this. This
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: is awesome. Where can people that want to get involved
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: with Him for Her, whether it be by you know,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: making a donation, or whether it be you know, looking
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: to get added to that network, where can they go
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: to find out more information about the organization?
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Thanks for asking. So I should have mentioned Him for
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Her as a nonprofit, so it's great that you asked.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: The best way to find out about us is just
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: at himfohur dot org. You can read about what we do.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: We are here to help people who are looking for
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: board members for their own boards. We're also here to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: help those of men who are board qualified and looking
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to increase their visibility.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: All right, good stuff, very cool. Thanks for listening to everybody,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: and have a good day.