Latest / Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler / Good Grief with Sara Bareilles

Transcript

Good Grief with Sara Bareilles · Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, here are my dates for the High and
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Mighty Tour. In September, I will be in Santa Barbara,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: San Diego, New York City, Philly, and New Haven, Connecticut.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: October is Atlanta, Baltimore, Saginaw, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Boise, Idaho,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and Spokane. And then in November, I'll be in San Francisco.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I'm coming to Salt Lake City, Austin, Houston, Dallas, babies.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'll be there. And then in December, I am closing
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: out my tour in Denver and Vancouver. So get your
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: tickets at ChelseaHandler.com for the High and Mighty Tour. Hi, Catherine.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Hi, Chelsea.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: How's it going?
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I am fresh off of Lake Arrowhead. I went to
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Lake Arrowhead for the weekend to my friend's house with
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: some friends. And Doug, Doug took his first boat ride,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: which was long overdue.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Lovely.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a little skittish about getting on the boat.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Doug, you know what? You're a pussy.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: So let's go.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: Like, get on there.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: We actually also took Mimsy for a boat ride this weekend. Oh, really?
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: We went to.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Prescott, Arizona.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been there?
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Prescott, Arizona? No, is that a lake?
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: That you were on there is a lake up there
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: but it's just like the ocean no no just a
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: little lake and it was it's just like beautiful high desert.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Was it lake america no.
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: Lake it was like a tiny little man-made lake but
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: with just like gorgeous rocks all around people are rappelling
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: down and we were.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Just doing a little paddle boat it was very.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Cute oh that's cute Did she get on the paddle boat, Mimsy?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: She did.
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: She just like gazed off into the sunset and there
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: was a double rainbow.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Like it was truly really gorgeous. A double rainbow. That
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: sounds very suspicious. Yes.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: But Doug did eventually get on your boat?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Doug got on the boat and he was just, he
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: was the star of the weekend. He added another layer
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: of pleasure. People just can't believe how chill he is
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and how cool he is. And how good looking he is.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: He's luscious. His sister arrives this week, but we're sending
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: her to primary school so she can learn how to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: pee outside.
• 2:01
  Speaker 6: Perfect.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: And all the other basics that I don't have the
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: tolerance for. Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: And it's not fair to saddle my belt with all
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: No, she actually thought, she's like, oh, I move in
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: this weekend and I can take care. I'm like, no, no, no, no.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: You don't have to do that either. That's like having
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a newborn.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: And I'm not interested. No.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So that's good. So Labor Day is over, guys. It's
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: a wrap. We are now entering the harshest part of
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: El Nino, apparently.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: The next.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Four months are going to be– oh, I added shows.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I added new shows to– I'm coming to Santa Barbara
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and San Diego next weekend.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: There's still tickets for the Santa Barbara show. Then I'm
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: in New York and Philly, Pittsburgh, and I added a
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: late show in Tampa, Florida, and I added a show
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: in Vancouver because I'm going to shoot my next special
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: in Vancouver on December 6th. So anyone looking for tickets
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: to see me on tour, go to ChelseaHandler.com. I'm coming to–
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I'm doing like 25 more cities before I leave. New Haven, Connecticut,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: all these fun, random places. And our guest today is
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: a Grammy-winning and Tony-nominated singer, songwriter, musician, and actress, and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: her new album, Good Grief, is out now. Please welcome
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Sarah Bareilles. Bareilles, is that how am I saying it properly?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Me and last names are tricky. I just want to
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: call everyone by their first name.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I think that's the agreement of society. Yeah. We mostly
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: do that. I know.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: But sometimes I just feel like as an interviewer, you
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: really have to say everything right.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: You know, you really do.
• 3:35
  Speaker 7: It's like a level of respect and respectability.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I totally hear you.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: It's kind of how I feel about language. I find
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: myself to be a little bit of a, maybe you're
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: like this. I'm a grammarian a little bit. Like I don't,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I get annoyed when people are lazy with language.
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: Uh-huh.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: You know, not like ILY or your IMO or stuff
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: like that. I don't care about that. but I don't
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: like words that are like slippery, like slipping, like when
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: people say anyways, I find that lazy.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Anyways. Oh, God.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: With a Z. It's like, where's the Z from? And,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: you know, normal people are just like, why are you
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: even listening to that? Like, who cares?
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: Shut up.
• 4:13
  Speaker 7: But I can't shut up about it.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: The woman, I'm working on a new musical. Her name's
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Meg Wallitzer, and she wrote this book called The Interestings,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and she is so.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Exacting about her language. And it is so funny because I'm,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I'm a grammarian. I'm learning that term.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I love it though. She definitely is. And it's like,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: she'll be like, he said it, it was plural. He
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: said the word plural and he, and he needs, we need,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: we need that word to be singular. And I'm just like,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: have at it, man. Go tell him. But I don't
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: think people care. No, people don't care.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: And it's a really actually quite obnoxious quality to have
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to constantly be like irritated by that or correcting people
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: is even more obnoxious. So I try not to do that.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: So I was dating a guy that used the term anyways,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: a few times. And then finally I was like, you gotta,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: you gotta, you gotta put a pin in that.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 5:02
  Speaker 7: I'm like, just skip the word altogether. Like just move
• 5:04
  Speaker 7: on to the next song. We don't even need that.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: We don't even need the conjoinder.
• 5:07
  Speaker 6: You're right.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I can't remember.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: The last time I've heard the word conjoiner.
• 5:13
  Speaker 7: I don't even know if that's a word.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: This is your new album, which is so beautiful. You
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: are so beautiful.
• 5:24
  Speaker 7: Your voice is magical.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And it's called Good Grief, and it's about grief.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: And there's a lot of grief in here.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: And I listened to yesterday. I got some annoying news yesterday.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And I went outside at like 4 o'clock in the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: afternoon out of my bedroom and just like put it
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: on my phone and lay down. And I listened to it.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And I just thought, wow, this is going to help
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: so many people who are going through something. And not
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: only that, it's beautiful music because you always are producing
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: beautiful music.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 5:58
  Speaker 7: But this is your first studio album in seven years?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I haven't made anything since 2019. That was the last
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: time I was on tour as well. Yeah. I kind
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: of average a long time between records. I'm definitely not
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: someone who I don't turn it right around. And because
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I work in other mediums like that, I work in
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: theater and I've done some TV and stuff. So it's
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: like I am doing other projects as well, but it
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: just takes me a long time. And when the pandemic hit,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I just had nothing to say for a long time.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: I just felt stunned. I just couldn't. And I was
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: in such bad shape, like mental health wise and Just
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: so much. And lost a friend in 2020 and then
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: lost another friend two years ago. And there was just
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: so much grief. I just didn't have anything to say
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: about it. And then I had a lot to say
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: about it. And then here we are.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: So when you feel like you're ready to start writing,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: what is that? What happens? Is it like an all-day thing?
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Do you just start vomiting out all of your ideas?
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: It runs the gamut. I would say that I'm not
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: someone who has– there's lots of artists I know that
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: have a very regimented practice where they're like, I write
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: from these– these are my office hours kind of thing.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not that way. I'm just too lazy and want
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to do what I want to do. So I'm really more–
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I respond to sort of feeling moved to write. But
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I would say that this record, maybe more than any
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: other record I've had prior, is full of transmissions. I
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: was walking home from the grocery store. and had you
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: know my hands full of grocery bags and had to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: put them down on the street and was like had
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: to sing into my phone because there was like a
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: song arriving that's very unusual for me that's not my
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: normal there just was a lot of like communing with
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: something bigger than me for this for this record yeah
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: beautiful yeah it felt it feels right it feels right
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: for the like the message of this record it's like
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: about very dear friends it's about infertility it's about grief
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: of country. It's about, you know, just loss, like a
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: lot of ache and, and trying to like thread in
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit of hope as well. Mostly ache, a
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: little bit of hope.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Well, what also the conversation you had with Anderson Cooper,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: which was really beautiful. You played him the song that
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: you had written after you had seen the interview with
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: him and Stephen Colbert and Stephen Colbert was talking about
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: his loss.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Yes. Right.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: And so you wrote a song based on watching that interview.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. I just listened to their podcast. I just listened
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: to that episode of Anderson's podcast. And I was walking
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: around Brooklyn, which is where I live, and I was
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: just so moved by how vivid the– I don't know.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I was so moved by these two men sharing in
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: this really deep and intimate way and seemingly not holding
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: anything back and talking about their grief. I just thought
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: it was really incredible.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: And I didn't know that about Stephen's past that he
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: lost his dad and brothers in a plane crash when
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: he was 10 years old and how much it changed
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: their family dynamic and changed his mother. And I just–
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: his sharing about that was so– And Anderson's talked a
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: lot about the loss in his life as well. I
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: just found that really moving. So then I wrote them
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: a song and then I was like, is this weird?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Is this weird? This might be weird. I don't know.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: But then I sent it to them and they were
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: both very gracious about it. But I was like, amen.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: little weird.
• 9:35
  Speaker 7: Well, you played it for Anderson and he was very emotional.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: Very moved.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, totally. And, and Steven also was really kind about it.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: And I think they were both excited at the idea
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: that some little ripple they put out turned into something
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: else that like, it's so interesting to think about how
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: art moves like that, that a conversation can turn into
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: a piece of music It's just interesting.
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: Well, I did cry all the way through listening to
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: your conversation with Anderson Cooper.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: So I didn't write any songs about it, but I did.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: It was very moving.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: You have time.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: You have time. Tomorrow. Tomorrow.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: So what do you think, now that you've written this
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: record and on the subject of grief and getting through
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: those two difficult situations.
• 10:19
  Speaker 7: Your most recent, you know, your two friends who you just.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Spoke about, what do you, like, what do you have
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: to say about grief that you didn't say in the songs,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: like on a personal level?
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Oh man. I mean, a lot of it's there, but
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I guess what I would say is sort of like
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: what the title encapsulates is that like, I think, I
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: think I have, always been a little bit afraid of
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: grief and afraid of my own like sort of the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: dark corners like I think it's not comfortable you know
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: it's painful to go to those places but I have
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I of course I wish I wish I had my
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: friends again but I almost wouldn't change the experience of
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the loss in my life because it has changed me
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: so much for the better and I am more of
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: who I hope hope I will continue to become because
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: of how much, how painful the experience of losing them
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: has been. Does that make sense? Like I, I wouldn't,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but like, I don't know.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I'm just, I'm so grateful to have learned so much
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: from the losing. It's just like a really, I've learned
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: so much presence, so much ability to, um, It's just
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: so clarifying. Mortality is such an incredible teacher. And watching friends,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: which I know we all have this in some capacity,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: friends or family, who have had to meet that edge that, like,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: we all pretend we're not going to get there, but
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: we're all, like, walking that way. And to watch them, like,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: meet that edge of themselves with so much bravery. I
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: don't know. It's very– it's just– it's life-changing.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I can totally relate to what you're saying about finding
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: gratitude in the dark.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: To be in such a low place and to be
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: able to be gracious and grateful for either whether it's
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the time that you had with a person or with
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: the knowledge of the impact that they had on your
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: life or vice versa. But to find gratitude in those
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: moments is kind of one of these skills. I think
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: as women, especially, we start to realize how that works.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: And to, you know, instead of fighting the pain, welcoming
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the pain and like bringing it in and treating yourself
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: like not, not like a fish that's swimming upstream, but
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that's turning and going with the current.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Like these are the circumstances and this is how I
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: can level up.
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 12:54
  Speaker 7: And meet this moment as like a strong, powerful force.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: And I think that's, it's, it's really meaningful, you know,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: when you can talk about it in this way was in,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: in a, um, retrospective way after what you've experienced. Because
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: so many people get stuck in grief. And we have
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: so many people that call into this podcast about really
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: heavy stuff. And they get stuck with it. And people
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: lose their parents, of course. And they can't get past
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: that stuckness. And so I think conversations like this are
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: really helpful to understand. A, it's helpful to believe in everything.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Like it's helpful to believe.
• 13:40
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: It's just like a higher vibration to believe.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: That, you know, once somebody's here and energy doesn't die,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it just converts to something else.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: You can't kill energy. So somebody's going somewhere else.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: But there's still, why not believe in all of the
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: good stuff you can believe in?
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I feel– Andrea Gibson is this incredible poet. And they–
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I was involved in this documentary about Andrea and their
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: wife Meg called Come See Me in the Good Light.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: And I have learned so much from Andrea. Yeah. Andrea
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: passed away a year and a half ago.
• 14:15
  Speaker 7: It's beautiful too.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: It is so special. And one of the things that
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Andrea says is that like to die is to be
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: reincarnated in the people you love while they're still living.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And I just think it is so, when I really
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: reflect on that and I think about my best friends
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: who are gone now and the number of times I
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: am sort of living for them and in honor of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: them and because of them, like doing something that I
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: think Gavin would want me to do or a way
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: he might have lived. I just think that's so, we just,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the reverberations are infinite. That we just like the, our
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: impact on this life is still here, you know, long
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: after we, after we go.
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: I mean, I want to go back to what you
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: said about the transmissions and sort of getting songs as downloads.
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: I know you said that doesn't happen a lot for you,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: but that is something you hear, especially with musicians. Like
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: I know Tori Amos has talked about that. A lot
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: of different people have talked about that. I was like,
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: I sat down at the piano, it already existed and
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: it came through me. Do you think that has anything
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: to do with sort of like gifts that your friends
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: that passed are sending to you? Does it feel just
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: like you're tapping into some sort of universal intelligence?
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Like, what does that feel like?
• 15:34
  Speaker 7: I like the tone of voice that you're using right now.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: It's very sensual.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: It's very radio friendly.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Very radio friendly.
• 15:40
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Don't you think?
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 15:43
  Speaker 8: It's very soothing.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I almost, I was like, oh, I got lost in
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: your words.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to lull you.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think that is my experience of music in general,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: that like, My personal philosophy is kind of just that
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: it's not– it doesn't really belong to me or to–
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: we're just like the little portals that these ideas, these muses,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: they're just floating around and they're looking for the open door.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I definitely feel that like there's been a couple of times,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: this one that I'm– there's this song called Just a
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Kid that I wrote for my friend Chad. And I'm like,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: it's hard for me to feel like that wasn't something
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: he was kind of, it was so immediate. That's when
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I put the groceries bags down and started singing into
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: my phone. And I made a demo of the song
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and I sent it to his girlfriend who had taken
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: care of him all through the last months of his life.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: This wonderful woman. I sent it to her and I
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: was like, this just came through. I hope you like it.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: It's about Chad, of course. And she told me after
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the fact that I had sent it to her on
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: their like secret anniversary. They had like one anniversary and
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: then they had this other one that they were, and
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: she was like, are you going to figure out how
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: to give me a gift today? And like, that's what happened.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I just, you know, coincidence. Yeah, sure. Maybe, but also
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: what if, you know, like, isn't it more interesting and
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: more fun to believe that there's all these, the complexity
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: and the layers of like, who knows there's magic. There
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is magic.
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah, there is magic.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: And it's important, especially now in the reality that we're
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: all living in, to remember that. I think so. And
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: that you got to look for it sometimes a little
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: bit harder.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: But you got married this year.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I did. Last year.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Last year.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, October of last year.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: How did that happen?
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I met this guy, Joe Tippett, 10 years ago. And
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: we like, yeah, 10 years in.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: We just.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: And it was funny because I'm 40.
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: You were together for 10 years?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: 10 years.
• 17:46
  Speaker 7: And then you got married.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And then we got married. Yeah.
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: It's a long engagement.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I know. And we were engaged for like two and
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: a half years too.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I like a long engagement.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: Amen.
• 17:55
  Speaker 7: I would get engaged just to be engaged.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And then every year, my philosophy is you get engaged
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and every year you get re-engaged.
• 18:02
  Speaker 7: And so that there's always a wedding on the horizon.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Sure. Right.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: For me, I don't need the wedding. I just want
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: the constant re-up.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the re-up. If you get renewed, you know what
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I mean?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: You get renewed.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Because then everybody's a little bit on their tippy toes more.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Is the contract getting extended?
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So that way nobody gets too cozy.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: So how do you decide after 10 years? Have you
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: always wanted to be married?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: You know what's funny is that like, okay, when I was...
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: when I was young, when I was like, I don't know,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: in my teens, I was like, I'm going to be
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: married at 26 and have start kids at 28. And
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: then of course life is like, doesn't do anything that
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you think it's going to do. And then I had
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: this big career and this very fulfilling artistic life and frankly,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: relationships that like, didn't make me think about getting married.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And then that's funny. And then I was in this
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: relationship with Joe and, And there was just something which
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: was hard. Like it was hard one. That's something we
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: talked about like at the wedding, in our vows, is
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that everything about our collaboration is like a hard one.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: We like had to grow up for each other and
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: we had to like really learn how to be partners.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Like I think I've been someone's girlfriend before, but I've
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: never been someone's partner before. And now he's like my family.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: And that feels really good. But I don't, I didn't know.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, do I need to get married? Probably not.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: But I had a great time at my wedding. Do
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I need another one? No, probably not. I mean, whether
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: we end up together I don't know. It's impossible to know.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: But it's really, I, as someone who's had so much
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: anxiety in my life, I can't believe that I stood
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: in front of my friends and family and said, yes,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I promise I'm going to be with you And did
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: not have any like subtle butterflies of like, maybe I
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: shouldn't do that. Maybe I should leave. Maybe, what if
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I don't like it? You know, I just didn't have
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: anything of that.
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: You don't strike me as somebody, have you worked out
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: your anxiety?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I am currently working out. Lexapro and I are in
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: great shape.
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: I was going to say, you are giving ethereal.
• 20:27
  Speaker 8: Oh.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't you agree?
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: I agree.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: You're ethereal.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I did a mask this morning.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about your spirit. Okay. Your spirit is ethereal.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 20:40
  Speaker 8: You are.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you. You're a gift the way you're talking about
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: your own music in such generous ways. To hear an
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: artist talk about their talent in such a generous way
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: that it's- Thanks. You know, that you're a vessel. And
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I love to hear that.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: You know, it's nice.
• 20:57
  Speaker 7: It's nicer than hearing, I did that.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I wrote that. I did this. I did this.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: So that's really refreshing. So what did you guys do
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: for your wedding? Where'd you have it?
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: We got married upstate. New York? Yeah. Had a little
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: like dairy farm up there.
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: I could see that.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I could see that for sure.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: And we sort of, it was beautiful. It was so beautiful. Yeah.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: We just, it wasn't a huge wedding. But it was
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: like 180 people or something like that. That's big. Yeah,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: it was big, but not like, you know, five. I
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: didn't have Madison Square Garden. I didn't. I don't know
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: that many people. But yeah, we.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: How many people do we know?
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: That's a good.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I was like, if I invited everyone I knew, I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: don't think it would be that many.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, but we do know lots of people. Like,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I know lots and lots of people, but don't you?
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, but would they expect to come to
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: my wedding?
• 21:48
  Speaker 8: No.
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: No.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: Would you want them also?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah.
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: No.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was so us. It was just... My
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: mom has.
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: It's actually the only.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: This is like the only conversation I've ever had where
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like... You're making marriage sound very appealing.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love this.
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: I'm like, this is wonderful. This sounds like something fun
• 22:10
  Speaker 7: I'd like to try.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like if it's not... This is something I
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: love about my husband, which is just like, if it's not...
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: It's ours to design. You know what I mean? And
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: if it doesn't... There's no like, this is how you
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: do marriage thing. you just have to like figure it out.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And it's like a, it's a, an investment in a
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: long form negotiation. It's like, that's what we are. We're
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: just like in collaboration, trying to figure out, do we
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: like our life right now together and what needs changing?
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And do I like you? Some days the answer is no,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I'm so happy to say that I had
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: a great time at the wedding. I couldn't believe it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: It's that you are surrounded with so much love and
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: so much like hope and optimism. It's really sweet. Yeah.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: That sounds really nice. What do you think, what do
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you admire most about your husband?
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I admire his sobriety. He's been sober 10 years. And
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: it's something that I really- When you guys met then? Well, no.
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: No.
• 23:19
  Speaker 8: Oh, okay.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: We were very drunk when we hooked up for the
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: first time. I thought it was going to be annoying.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I thought his sobriety would be like a real problem.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Are you not sober?
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not sober and I love to drink. Yes, me too.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And I thought I was going to have a real
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: ish with that. And it turns out it's like one
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: of my favorite things about him. I'm so proud of him. Yeah.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And he's also a very, you know, in terms of
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Someone who's sober, like being around people drinking, like he
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: would never want to change someone's behavior or have somebody
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: not drink because he doesn't.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: He's just really.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Dedicated to his sobriety and I really appreciate that about him.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: So I really admire that. And I really admire his passion.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: He's like voracious about everything, about art, about music, about theater,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: about poetry. When I met him, I was like, oh,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: you're a dumb jock. Like you're cute. And you're like,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I really want to have sex with you, but like
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: you are a ding dong. And he's one of the
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: smartest people I know. Politics. We had an hour long
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: conversation this morning about politics that just went on and on.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: And I don't agree with him about everything either. And
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate that. It's just like.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: He really is himself. And I think it allows me
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: to really be myself. And that feels very safe.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Are you into astrology?
• 24:41
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know that much about it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Me neither.
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: What's your sign?
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I'm a Sagittarius.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: And he's a Pisces. I'm a Pisces.
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: You are.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I'm a Pisces, yeah. Okay. I don't know what it means.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: I think Pisces and Sagittarius like get along.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: They do. They do.
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: Pisces and Scorpio, Pisces and Sagittarius.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: What are you?
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: I'm also a Pisces.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're both Pisces.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, great. And same signs tend to like each other too?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 25:08
  Speaker 7: Is it a Pisces thing? Because I have a lot
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: of Pisces in my family.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: None of us are similar to each other, so it
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: doesn't really track for me.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: I'm the crying Pisces. You are not the crying Pisces.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Is that somebody who cries a lot?
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: Frequently, yeah.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah. I'm the crying Sagittarius.
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: Great.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Do you cry a lot?
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 25:28
  Speaker 7: When was the last time you cried?
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Maybe like the day before yesterday. Yeah.
• 25:35
  Speaker 7: Do you remember what you were crying about?
• 25:37
  Speaker 8: Oh, yeah.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was crying, first of all, from just fatigue.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I'm just tired. I'm thankfully working a lot right now,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: but it's a lot. And then I was just crying.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I was having like a little grief spike, a little
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: grief spike. There is a project I'm working on that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: is really exciting, and I really thought it was going
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: to look a certain way, meaning that I would be
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: like in it. And it doesn't look like it's going
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: to work that way. And I'm just bummed. I'm just grieving.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I'm just grieving. Because I want to have a baby.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: And that's also not happening. It's hard. And I've been
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: trying for years. And it's hard. And so there's just
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a little grief spike. I had a little moment.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: I like calling it a grief spike. Because that is
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: what it feels like.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: A wave.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: A spike feels correct.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I definitely. I mean, I have them all the time, but.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I cry about literally anything. What do you
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: want me to cry about? I was trying to.
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: Think of when the last time I cried was, but
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: I can't think of it.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: But I know, I cry from exhaustion usually. Like I
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: get so tired. Like what you're saying, I totally relate to.
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: That where I'm like, I can't believe I have to
• 26:54
  Speaker 7: do this.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: And then you're like, why did I go out last
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: night when I have all this to do? So stupid
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: shit more upsets me than real stuff because I feel
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: like I have to be strong.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: For others.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 27:08
  Speaker 7: Do you feel that way?
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: And like the real, the truth is, is that, In
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: some way you do. Like you are the center of
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: a certain kind of solar system. Like you are the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: centerpiece of something that is built around you. And so
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: there is a kind of expectation and pressure that comes
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: with that. That's just real. I mean, we all have
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: that to some degree in our lives. And yeah, sometimes
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: it gets overwhelming. I don't know. I relate to that.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: We do advice on this show.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: We give advice.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: So I want to ask you if it could be
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: your best advice that you've been given or the worst
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: advice you've been given, or it can be both.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know if it's someone who's given me
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: this advice, but I think just telling the truth is
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: the best advice I could give or receive. I just
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: think you have to find a way to tell the
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: truth in it. like with kindness.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 28:12
  Speaker 7: I totally agree with you.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I couldn't, I really have no, I think there is
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: a level of integrity that comes with telling the truth too.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And I really don't understand why so many people have
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: an issue with being front facing.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I have no patience for like
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: lack of transparency. Yeah, it's a waste. Like your family
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: rules that you posted the other day that I just
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: reread them. Just like, oh, This is everything to me.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, this is, let me just lay it
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: out for you the way it actually is. I loved that.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: My family loved it too. I just think that conflict
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: avoidance is such a, it's just a waste of everyone's
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: time and it's untrue. And when someone isn't true to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: you or telling the truth, and you don't even have
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: to know the person.
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: It's integrity- To.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Be truthful to a stranger who needs the truth in
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that moment or whatever's happening.
• 29:14
  Speaker 7: It's so intentionally kind.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, I totally agree.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: And it's so craven when people don't have the ability
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to be direct.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: It feels very weak.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: It's just very weak.
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: Yes, and it's just like we don't have time for
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: that anymore.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: No, totally. We don't have time for that.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Look at what happens when people just lie all the time.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Just look at it. Yeah, I'm not up for it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I don't want it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Have you ever had.
• 29:40
  Speaker 7: to get rid of a toxic relationship.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: With a conflict?
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have. I mean, I've had professional relationships that
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: have ended, but I've also had personal relationships, not like
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: even romantic ones, but those two. But Yeah, I've had, like,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: friendships that didn't, like, survive the growing up.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And that of just being, like, I have too many
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: wonderful friends in my life to, like, continue to make
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: space for, you know, something that doesn't have reciprocity in it. Right. Like,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: being someone's friend, I think, is an investment. And, like,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: on both sides, like, you have to just really care
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: about the relationship. And yeah, I've had some of those.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I didn't have any big blowups or anything, but I
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: did have like emails and then getting blocked on social media.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: It's just interesting how we go through life and at
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: different times in our life handle different things like that,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: you know, because I was very explosive when I was
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: younger before I got therapy, you know, calmed the fuck down.
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: I just was always at a 10. And it was like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: And everything was a huge argument.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: And to learn how to be graceful and to go
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: with the flow and even circling back to going with
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the flow with grief is like, stop resisting the reality
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: of the situation. If something isn't working, it's more adult
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: to just call it as you see it without the drama,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: without the yelling. You don't need to yell because the
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: minute you're yelling, you've lost control of the situation anyways.
• 31:19
  Speaker 7: You don't strike me as somebody who yells a lot.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. When Joe and I first were together,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: we had these crazy arguments in a way where I
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't even, I don't ever, I've never
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: heard that sound come out of my mouth before. Like
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: yelling at each other. And we had one, we had
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: like maybe two arguments like that. And after the second one,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm never doing that again. Whatever this is.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: And I think we just had so much conflict. feeling
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: for each other and no tools to communicate. Thank God
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: for our couples therapist who like helped us eventually figure
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: out like how to talk to each other when we,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: when we would get tight. It was like when we
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: both got tight, we were fully defended and there was
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: just like, it was explosive. Totally. But yeah, you learn
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: how to navigate that. You're like, yeah, big feelings, man. Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Doesn't mean you have to like, you know, punch a
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: wall or whatever.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw an ex-boyfriend recently and he was like,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: do you remember the fights we used to get into?
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm so embarrassed. together you know especially when
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: you pair up with somebody who's just toxic yeah and
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: you're put toxic together it's not one person's fault or
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: the other it's the combo platter of you and whatever
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: drugs we were using at that time and I was
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: like I don't even want to talk he's like do
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: you remember I'm like don't I just like let's move
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: on we're past it we're.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Friends yeah we've moved.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: On like I don't even want to be reminded of
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: that and he's like but it's funny now because we're
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: all we're both so different I'm like it's still not
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: funny it's still so shameful Just to think that there's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a version of you that could act that way.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: You know, like the versions of ourselves, like I think
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: that's one of the most fun things about growing up
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: is like, and getting older, is being able to like
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: look at your younger self and be like, oh, baby.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: You're a little baby. You're a little jealous baby. Was
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the car late?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Did they not pick you up on time? You're so upset.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: You know, just like, yeah, things that, ugh.
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: I mean, I was, I was once, he was telling
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: a story.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I lost my Invisalign once and I was flipping the
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: fuck out about my Invisalign. And he was like, you
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: were stomping around the room. And I did this with
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: my one friend when we were in Bali once too,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: when I couldn't find my Invisalign. Like I had this
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: attachment to my Invisalign. It's just crazy. Like what is
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: wrong with me?
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: And first of all, Invisalign is so annoying because it's
• 33:37
  Speaker 7: fucking invisible.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: So you always lose it. And then you can never-
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: It's in the name. But as soon as he brought
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: up the Invisalign, I'm like, don't, don't, don't. I'm not ready.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I'd rather have it just play. You know what I mean?
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: When you go to heaven or whatever the fuck happens,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to choose to believe that we get a
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: nice recording of all of our good deeds.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: And a couple highlight reels, you know, about things that we–
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: behaviors we were able to– Overcome.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Overcome is a good word.
• 34:09
  Speaker 8: Yes, yes.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I also feel like we have to be able to
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: laugh at ourselves. Like when we go berserk, like you
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: have to be able to laugh at it because it's
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: so silly when you get a little– if you get
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: a little– if you can laugh at it, that is
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: another thing that Joe actually does for me that I–
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: It took me a while to like appreciate it, but
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: now he helps me laugh at myself and I am
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: so much more relaxed because I can be really tight.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Just like I'm type A, I'm a control freak. I
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: have a lot going on and it's just really easy
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: to get into this tight idea that like what I'm
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: doing is really important and it's helpful to have a
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: way to be like, but also- Do you want an
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: ice cream sandwich? Also, the world's not going to end. Yeah.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: I could use a little of that in my life.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: It's painful.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you it's painful at first when you're like,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: don't make fun of me right now.
• 35:09
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: And then now I can really laugh at it.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: And it's helpful. Do you want me to make fun
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: of you? Yeah.
• 35:16
  Speaker 7: I like it. I can take that. I like being
• 35:18
  Speaker 7: made fun of.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not type A, I don't think. So I think
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: type A has an issue with that.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I'm type A for about an hour and then that's it.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: And once I get my shit together, I'm like, all right, let's– Oh, amazing.
• 35:32
  Speaker 7: I think so.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I don't really think I'm type A.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think so.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: I think you want to get shit done and like you–
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: but you're not like, oh, everything has to be the
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: certain specific way.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: But if things– and once I get annoyed, then I'm like–
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: then it's hard to pull me back.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of feeling that I probably know
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: the right way to do everything. I'm just like, let
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: me do it.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: See, I don't have that at all. I'm like, please
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: let someone else do it. Whatever I can farm out
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: to other people, please. I don't think I can do
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: anything the right way.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: No, I need more of that.
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: That's funny. Should we take some callers?
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: Let's do it. Our first one is just a write-in.
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: It's our one drink question.
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: Use your Alexa Pro for this, okay?
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I already did, baby.
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: So Lucinda says, Dear Chelsea, in my neighborhood, there's a
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: bartender who I help out with bodily needs from time
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: to time when he's stressed at work. But he's a
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: Trump supporter. And though I didn't know this at the
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: beginning of our relationship, quote unquote, it has come to light.
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: Now I see every drop of coded language. As much
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: as I try to parry, I must admit the tension
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: adds to the fun. That said, I have an opportunity
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: to say things that might help him think more. Should
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: I continue my Trump-y tryst, Lucinda?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think if you can handle it, you
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: can handle it. I can't handle that.
• 36:47
  Speaker 7: I wouldn't be able to handle that.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, if it's just sex, I mean.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: It's just sex.
• 36:52
  Speaker 7: I mean, why not?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Men use women for sex all the time. I think
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. And
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: the Trump supporter, it's like, That's your call. I mean,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: it's not for me. Not in this moment.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I would be a lot to forgive for me too. Also,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I guess I wonder, are there places where she's not
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: saying what she thinks? If she can pinpoint places where
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: she's not showing up fully because she knows that there's like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: divergence there that would be something I would keep an eye.
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: On like she's keeping quiet on certain things yeah but does.
• 37:29
  Speaker 7: It matter if that's not a relationship I don't know
• 37:31
  Speaker 7: if you.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Start hearing coded language if she says that she's like
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I start I don't know how you unhear that you're
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: just like I don't know I don't want to be
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: around someone who's.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean like it's almost like
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: propaganda that you're like kind of yeah that can permeate
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: into your brain whether you're aware of it or not
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: in that sense you mean.
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah it's like a boner killer for me to like
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: If you would hear a man say derogatory things about
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: women or other people or what, like, that just, I
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: wouldn't be.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: Able to be excited about that guy.
• 38:00
  Speaker 8: No.
• 38:01
  Speaker 7: So, but it's a personal choice.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: For you.
• 38:04
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 38:04
  Speaker 7: Like, if you're fine with it, you know, go ahead.
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: Do I, would I do that?
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: No.
• 38:09
  Speaker 7: I can't fuck a Trump supporter.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: That's just not on my list.
• 38:13
  Speaker 7: That's not on my docket.
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: So we've got three would not do, but you do you.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: Would not do, you do you.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: But have a great time. See you later.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: Well, our first caller today is Mandy.
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: So Mandy says, Dear Chelsea, A few years ago, my
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: dad passed away fairly suddenly. He had congestive heart failure
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: that we always knew would take him one day, but
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: his weekly trips to the hospital, mostly as a result
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: of insomnia and anxiety, brought on a boy-who-cried-wolf feel.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: So when he was hospitalized for the.
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: Final time and started to decline rapidly, I had just
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: landed in Maui for a family vacation and was in
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: denial that the end was near. I didn't make it
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: home in time to say goodbye. As a result, I
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: have deep shame and guilt with the circumstances surrounding his death.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: I talked to him multiple times a day when he
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: was hospitalized, and nearly every day prior to that, He
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: knew I loved him very much, but I get so
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: upset thinking about him dying alone without the comforts of
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: my sister and me. I'm hardly able to look at
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: photos of him and definitely cannot watch videos of him
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: or listen to my saved voicemails from him without turning
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: into an absolute mess, which is typically frowned upon when
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: out in public. Thus, I generally compartmentalize my grief and
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: stuff it down, hardly ever allowing myself to think about him.
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: My kids were five and eight when he passed and
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: were definitely old enough to have a meaningful relationship with him.
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: I want to keep his memory alive and preserve the
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: special moments they shared with him, but I have a
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: hard time seeing or hearing his voice and keeping my composure.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: Any advice is greatly appreciated.
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: Mandy.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, Mandy. Mandy.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: And thank you guys for having me.
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: This is our special guest, Sarah Bareilles.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Hi, Mandy.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: Hi, Sarah.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Did I say that right?
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: It's so nice. You did. You nailed it.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, honey, you have to forgive yourself. You have to
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: give yourself some grace.
• 39:59
  Speaker 7: The first thing that he would say to you is
• 40:01
  Speaker 7: forgive yourself.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: He does not want you to.
• 40:04
  Speaker 7: Suffer in this way.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: He doesn't.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: I know this.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Nobody wants that for you. And you're beating yourself up
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: over something that you can't change. And it happened. And
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: it's okay. It's okay.
• 40:15
  Speaker 7: You have to start living with the light and spirit
• 40:18
  Speaker 7: of him.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: And looking at videos and looking at photos, you have
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: to bring him back into your life in that loving way.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: And you have to forgive yourself. Don't you guys agree?
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
• 40:30
  Speaker 7: Nobody wants you to suffer this way. Certainly not your father.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I also feel... Something that I have learned about grief
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: is that it must be witnessed. And in order for
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: you to relate to the grief differently, you have to
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: share it. And I think, take it or leave it,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: but I think you should share it with your kids.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And I think you should create a little ceremony and
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: talk about your dad. And you guys bring out a
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: picture of him And put on his favorite music and
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: just make your own little ritual that holds space for
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: the loss of him and the love of him, which
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: are in equal measure. And there is nothing you could
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: have done differently. The choices that were made were the
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: choices that were made. And there's no right or wrong there.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: But I totally agree. The forgiveness is first. And then
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: share that grief, baby. Share it. Because people can hold
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: it with you and you'll feel closer to him and
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: you'll feel closer to yourself and to your kids and
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: your family the more you just allow yourself to really
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: feel it.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that idea of doing that with your kids.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And as soon as you start to let this out,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: and it's going to come out, and it's going to
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: be a little bit much for you to handle, and it's.
• 42:02
  Speaker 7: Going to be beautiful also.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And it's going to be a great lesson for your
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: kids to see you deal with that and let it happen.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And for them to also join you in that is
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: going to be really good for the rest of their lives,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: to see that you... can work through something and difficult
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: emotions and you can share it and you don't have
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: to bottle it up and you don't have to look
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: away and put the picture or the videos away because
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: of your own guilt. Like there's no room for any
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: guilt here. Your father loves you and loves you, you know?
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: So like invoke him in everything that you're doing to
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: honor him instead of pushing him away because he doesn't
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: want that either. He wants to be with you. So
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: let him in. Totally.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate that. You guys, I didn't expect
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: to come on here and just like immediately start crying.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: So I apologize.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: No, that's okay. Please don't apologize.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: I think what you said is really beautiful.
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: I think it can be right under the surface, even
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: though like, obviously, you know, you're not crying every single
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: day because it's been a few years, but like it,
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: if it's right under the surface, then it is something
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: to like work through and set yourself some times to like, okay,
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: I'm going to have some quiet time.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: I have an hour tonight.
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: And after you do the ceremony with your kids, take
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: some more times, maybe it's even once a week to
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: go through those voicemails and go through pictures and.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: Spend time with him.
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: The other thing I would recommend is The Light Between Us,
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: Laurel and Jackson. I think that would be a good
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: book for you to read because she talks about continuing
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: the conversation with our loved ones after their past and
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: forgiveness that can happen, undoing of guilt and shame after
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: the person has passed.
• 43:45
  Speaker 7: And Sarah and I were just having a conversation.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: So listen to this episode of the podcast because she
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: was talking about transmission and with her songwriting and her
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: friend that had passed away.
• 43:54
  Speaker 7: And it's a really beautiful reminder when you read.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: That book to ask for a sign from your loved one,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: like your dad, ask him for something that only you
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: and him would know about. And I promise you it
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: will show up.
• 44:06
  Speaker 7: He will show up.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: My sign with my mom is oranges when they're out
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: of place.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: So just ask for it. And I promise you. And
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: then it becomes a living thing. You're pushing him away.
• 44:18
  Speaker 7: Bring him back.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: And you just have grace for yourself because this is
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: a huge opportunity to show your children.
• 44:29
  Speaker 7: Something really valuable about life.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys have seen the movie Coco,
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: but my dad was full Mexican. I'm half Mexican. And
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: so every November we celebrate Dia de los Muertos. And something,
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: a big fear of mine is that by not talking
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: about him, with my kids, they'll eventually just forget his memory.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: And I don't want to forget the sound of his
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: voice or the sound of his laugh. But again, at
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: the same time, it's just been so painful. But I
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: like what you said, Catherine, about like setting aside that time,
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: because oftentimes I'm like, oh, I should listen to a
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: voicemail or I should watch that one video that I
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: really love of him. And then I'm like, no, I
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: have a dinner tonight where I don't want my eyes
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: to be all puffy. You're like, I've already done my makeup.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: So it's pretty inconvenient to start crying out of nowhere.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: So I'll just like save it and just keep like
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: pushing it off, pushing it off. But I really like
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: what you said about setting aside that time and creating
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: those rituals so that I won't forget what he sounds like,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: but also my kids who were so young, but definitely
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: old enough to know him and remember him. I don't
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: want them to forget him either.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: And you will get to a point, like, once you've
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: purged enough and listened to that stuff enough, that you
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: will be able to smile and laugh when you hear
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: his voice and look at his pictures.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, guys. I really appreciate you taking the time.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Mandy.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, Mandy.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Appreciate you calling in.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Sorry for your loss.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Take care.
• 45:46
  Speaker 8: All right.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks. Baby girl.
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: That is one of those things that will make me
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: cry any time is hearing a song from Coco.
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: Oh.
• 45:55
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: That'll get you.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:59
  Speaker 7: I forgot that movie.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: When was that? A few years ago? That was a
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: few years ago.
• 46:03
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe. Quite a few years ago, I think. Seven, eight, something.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: The thing that bumps me so much about when people
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: call in about that, we've had this before and it's
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: usually apparent, right?
• 46:15
  Speaker 7: Where they can't, they're stuck.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Stuck.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: We were talking about it. And it's the opposite of
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: what our parents want for us. Like they don't want
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: us to suffer in the aftermath of their death.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: That's not what anybody wants for anyone. Like they're gone.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: They're in it.
• 46:30
  Speaker 7: They're in a better place.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: You have to believe that, you know, like, so it's
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: like self-flagellation basically is all your accomplishment is like, you're
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: making yourself, you know, you're placing all the blame. You
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: want to blame someone. And so you, and you're like, okay,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: I have to blame myself if you have no one
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: else to blame.
• 46:47
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: Well, our next caller is Heaven.
• 46:51
  Speaker 8: Heaven.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Heaven. Oh, wow.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Yes. She's from New York.
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: And she says, Dear Chelsea, my name is Heaven. I'm
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: turning 29 in August. I live in Brooklyn and I'm
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: facing an overwhelming abundance of paths I could go down.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: I grew up as that music girl.
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: Leads in all my high school productions, performing in child
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: professional shows and other local theaters. My entire personality was music.
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: During my 20s, I strayed away from my purpose and
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: was living my life more as a party girl, still
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: having pop-up performances at 72-hour parties until about three years ago.
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: After many psychedelic journeys, I realized there's only one thing
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: on this earth for me, and I need to buckle
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: down and get serious about this purpose and gift. So
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: here we are in 2026. I finally have been receiving
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: all these messages as to how to fall into alignment
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: with my end goal and share my voice with the world. One,
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: I'm feeling beaten down by the cheesy and inauthentic ways
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: we have to promote ourselves on Instagram to be acknowledged
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: by the algorithm, which I'm having no luck in. I'm
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: learning how to produce, which is a masochistic endeavor. It
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: feels like I'm staring into a window of my life
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: and it's locked and I can't get in. Two, I
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: know this is so 29 of me, but now that
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: I'm finally embracing music as a real career, I feel
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: overwhelmed by the options and don't know the order of
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: operations to invest in. I want to be a producer.
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: I'm working so hard at being a rock star. I
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: could see myself going back to Broadway if I buckled down.
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: I could pursue voice acting or demo work. With all
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: these options, how do I know what to invest in first?
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Wow. Hi, Heaven.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Hi, Heaven.
• 48:21
  Speaker 7: This is our special guest, Sarah Bareilles.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, hi.
• 48:26
  Speaker 8: Hi.
• 48:26
  Speaker 7: Sounds like you have a big, bright future ahead of you.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Where does one begin? I mean, Sarah, you're a jack
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: of all trades. You do lots of different stuff.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Same girl, same. You know what I hear in your
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: writing is that I don't know if you're entirely clear
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: on where you really want to go. When you say
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: your purpose is music, tell me more. Just tell me
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: more first.
• 49:01
  Speaker 6: So I've been singing since I was three.
• 49:03
  Speaker 8: It's the thing that brings me the most catharsis and
• 49:07
  Speaker 8: also like altruistic joy when transferring that and giving that
• 49:11
  Speaker 8: to other people helps me as like therapy, songwriting, especially.
• 49:16
  Speaker 8: And there's I'm sure I know you relate with all
• 49:20
  Speaker 8: of your like musicals and what you do, but like,
• 49:22
  Speaker 8: there's just that feeling you get when you're singing and
• 49:25
  Speaker 8: the vibrations and it's like pushing out and you could
• 49:28
  Speaker 8: just like, I don't know, it's like otherworldly. And I
• 49:32
  Speaker 8: know that you're so right when you were saying like,
• 49:36
  Speaker 8: you don't really like know exactly how to like put
• 49:39
  Speaker 8: form that into like a specific path.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: And I think, yeah, that's where I'm, that's where I'm at.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, first I would say that you don't
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: necessarily have to choose one. You like doing voiceover work
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: is not going to cancel out something else, but I
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: think there is a world, like I have, my partner
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: has ADHD. I have a lot of best friends that
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: have a lot of ADHD and there is something that,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: do you have ADHD?
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: That's what I hear in your message is that you're
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: stuck in the sort of hurricane of possibilities. So you're
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: not making any singular decision. And that is something that
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: you can literally pick any one of those paths, but
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: you just have to, you know, get beyond the decision-making.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Because you can stay there forever. You can stay in
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: that like, should I or shouldn't I? And I also
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: think medicinal, like medicine for this like inability to choose,
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: like around performance at least, is performing. If you love
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: that feeling of singing for people, put yourself in spaces
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: where you get to do that. And there will be
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: more and more clarity that comes from that. And I
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: don't know if that means joining a choir or volunteering somewhere.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: There are places where you can exercise that that aren't
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: just book a Broadway show. Do you know what I mean? No, absolutely.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: You can utilize that part of yourself, whether you're doing
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: songwriting or just singing or any and all of the above.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: But I think action, actually putting yourself in motion is
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: going to be really clarifying, I think. Thank you. But
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 51:25
  Speaker 7: I think so too.
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: It sounds like you know.
• 51:27
  Speaker 7: I think, I know, it sounds like you do know.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: It sounds like you're a doctor and I'm the doctor
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: in office. So move over. I, yeah, I think you
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: should just, you need to take a step in one
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: direction and then don't rule anything out, but just start.
• 51:43
  Speaker 7: I agree with everything Sarah said.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: She's absolutely right on the money. A, to spot your ADHD,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: which I wouldn't have, but I think you just have
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: to start taking steps in one direction.
• 51:52
  Speaker 7: Like, okay, pursue a voiceover, you know, career. What are
• 51:55
  Speaker 7: you going to have to do to do that?
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: You can, and then, and then you know what you love.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: That's the first thing, you know what you love to do.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: You just said it so beautifully. So like that's, you're
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: going to do everything to do that, make that your
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: career and make that your living. And that can look
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: in all the different ways that you stated all the
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: different options, but just move in the direction of go
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: get yourself, you know, how are you going to get auditions?
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Do you have a voiceover agent? Do you have somebody
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: who's going to help you perform? Like, where are you
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: going to perform your music? You know, you have to
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: start making a plan and just doing these things and
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: then living that life. You know, like I think sometimes
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: we do get lost in the plans, you know, like,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: and then before you know it, you're like, wait, wait,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: wait a second.
• 52:36
  Speaker 7: This is now, you know, four more years go by.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: So you just have to start doing what you love
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: and start taking the steps that are going to get
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: you to actually have all of those things.
• 52:46
  Speaker 7: And because anything is possible.
• 52:48
  Speaker 6: You're right. Like I don't really specifically have to choose.
• 52:51
  Speaker 6: They're kind of all in the same vein.
• 52:53
  Speaker 8: As long as I like don't get lost in the
• 52:55
  Speaker 8: decision paralysis of it all.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: This is also a place where writing stuff down might
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: be really helpful. I know for me, when I've written
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: down like, okay, here's what I want my life to
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: look like or the new job or the whatever to.
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: Look like in five years. That kind of always comes
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: to fruition.
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: You get really specific, talk about exactly what you want
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: things to look like, and you might get there in
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: a different way than you are imagining it. But there's
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: something really powerful in writing down, like, here's what I
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: want my life to look like in X amount of time.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:31
  Speaker 8: I really also liked what you, Sarah, what you said
• 53:33
  Speaker 8: about just, like, go to the places.
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: That you could do this. And I think that a
• 53:37
  Speaker 6: lot of what's been coming up for me is, like, play.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:41
  Speaker 8: Have fun because like, what is it other than like
• 53:43
  Speaker 8: having fun? And like, so like, I'll go to like
• 53:46
  Speaker 8: jam nights and stuff. Like there's so many things here
• 53:49
  Speaker 8: in New York, like to be a part of like,
• 53:51
  Speaker 8: and so yeah, like going to a dance class, there's
• 53:54
  Speaker 8: like a sapphic dance class for like, you know, gay girls,
• 53:57
  Speaker 8: you know, and like, we can go out there and
• 53:59
  Speaker 8: just like learn a little dance routine and kind of
• 54:02
  Speaker 8: like get into that creativity and yeah, just having more
• 54:05
  Speaker 8: fun maybe.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that like, especially in the music industry,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: there is no harm in diversifying your skill sets, your crafts,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: like the things you've been familiar with. The people I
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: get suspect of are the people that are like, I'm
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: also a, like, like I'm a life coach and a
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: chef and a linguist.
• 54:26
  Speaker 7: I'm a Mahjong coach.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: But I think if you're pursuing, you know, creative expression
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: in all the different ways it shows up, Yeah. Enjoy.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Enjoy the fact that you have gifts to share and
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: that you like sharing them. That's amazing. Yeah.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: That is a gift in itself.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Totally. Wow. Thank you guys so much.
• 54:49
  Speaker 6: I am completely starstruck in all of the ways right now.
• 54:52
  Speaker 6: It's not even funny.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Well, good.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: You have no excuses now.
• 54:55
  Speaker 7: You got advice from the people.
• 54:58
  Speaker 8: Do you think I could shout out my band real quick?
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: They Call Her Heaven.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: I'm everywhere.
• 55:05
  Speaker 6: Spotify, Apple Music. It's like Joan Jett Blondie style.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, cute. I like that.
• 55:11
  Speaker 7: That's a great title. They Call Her Heaven.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Heaven.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 55:15
  Speaker 8: Bye. Bye.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, that was good spotting.
• 55:23
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 55:23
  Speaker 7: A good on you for spotting that ADHD.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I just think the people I love the most all
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: have it.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: How long did you do Waitress for on Broadway?
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I was in it for a few different little stints.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: The first one was 12 weeks, then I did 10 weeks,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: and then I did six weeks or something.
• 55:43
  Speaker 7: And did you like that schedule on Broadway?
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, I loved it. Yeah. Yeah. What I'll say about
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: being on Broadway, the only thing that I don't like
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: about it is there is a low grade anxiety about
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: getting sick all the time. Like that you're just always worried, like,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: am I going to be healthy enough to do the show? And,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah. So it adjusts your lifestyle. You're just like,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: you're kind of just living, working to do the show,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: to be able to do the show, which I love doing,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: but it's like a little tickle in your throat.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: You're like, How many times do you know, how many
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: times you had to, did you miss any shows? I
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: did miss a few shows.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was one show where I, my voice disappeared
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a song. Like I just, I
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: could feel it starting to go. I could just feel
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: it starting. And I almost, I couldn't get through the
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: song by the end of the song. And then I
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: left at intermission. And at intermission, my understudy, shout out
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: to Steph Torrens. She, my understudy, Stephanie Torrens went on
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm not doing act two. It
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: was horrifying. And I've had a time where like I
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: had family fly in to see the show and to
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: see my performance and they were there for one night
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: and I couldn't go on. And they were so sweet
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: about it, but it was just. you can't, if it
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: ain't there, you can't do anything about it.
• 56:56
  Speaker 7: What about O'Mary? Would you do that?
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: Hilarious.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That would be good. You should play Mary Todd Lincoln.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's so fun. It's so fun to see all
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: the different people doing it.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: They really cracked a cool code with that one. I'm
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: so happy for all of them.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Have you seen it?
• 57:17
  Speaker 7: Have you Yeah, I think I saw it right in
• 57:19
  Speaker 7: the beginning.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen it now a few times.
• 57:21
  Speaker 7: I need to.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Go back and see it, actually. Well, it's coming to LA.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, it is?
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: Oh, okay.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Well, then I'll see it again.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: With Alaska Thunderfuck.
• 57:27
  Speaker 7: I've never seen a play in LA. That's not true.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: It can't be true.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: We were just talking about this on the way here, actually, about, like,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: just theater culture in L.A. is just not as robust.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: It's not that it doesn't exist.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: But it's just not, like, it's not top of mind
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: for people in a way that, like, it's so identified
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: with New York City. It's just like, yeah, Broadway.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 57:45
  Speaker 7: You go to New York and you're like, oh, okay,
• 57:47
  Speaker 7: I've got to go see a play.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: You go to London and you're like, I've got to
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: go see a play. Well, Sarah, it's been a pleasure
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: talking to you.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy to see you both.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so happy.
• 57:55
  Speaker 7: Congratulations on being married.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Thanks.
• 57:57
  Speaker 7: Congratulations on your new album.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Good Grief.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Everybody can download that. Or they can go to your– well,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: they can buy tickets.
• 58:06
  Speaker 7: You're going on tour.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: I am going on tour.
• 58:08
  Speaker 7: So they can go to your– They.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Can't buy tickets because it's sold out, which is a
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: great thing to say. But you know what I can say?
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. It's awesome.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: It's awesome.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I'm going to come. Even though it's sold out, I'm
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: going to insert myself.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: I know a guy. But I will say that we
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: made a beautiful film called Good Grief that is like
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: a companion piece to the record that was about the
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: making of the music. So that comes out September 2nd.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: So people can buy tickets. They can go to my
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: website and check that out and get tickets to go
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: see this film, which is not the same as seeing
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: the concert, but you know. Okay. They can see something.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: And they can access your music wherever they want.
• 58:47
  Speaker 6: Yes. Right?
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: You do you.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: On all the platforms.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Not for us, but you do you. Okay.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Sarah.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: If you want advice from Chelsea, write in to DearChelseaPodcast
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: at gmail.com.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartMedia.
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler and find
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: Catherine on TikTok at Flash Kadabra. Dear Chelsea is edited
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: and engineered by Brandon Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. Find
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix and get
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: tickets to see Chelsea live at ChelseaHandler.com.