Latest / The Magic Guys / Alex Moffat - Cognitive Illusions and Neuroleadership Keynotes #246

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Alex Moffat - Cognitive Illusions and Neuroleadership Keynotes #246 · The Magic Guys

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They're guys they do magic they are the magic guys,
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ladies and gentlemen this is what it looks like to see two guys who have been
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gigging non-stop and still commit to a podcast uh i'm one of your hosts josh
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and to my next to me is Nick Kay.
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That's right. To the next of him is magician Nick Kay, professional mind bow
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all the way from Melbourne, Australia. Bam, bam, bam. How about you? Yeah, boy.
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And your boy, Doug. Well, you know,
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he died and you know what no no no we
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all we all know we we all know why doug's not here we
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all know like if anyone's listened to the christmas episode that i
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posted in the discord if you know you know he decided to get the extent the
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extension the pump no we all know deep down that he's secretly santa claus is
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a jolly jolly fellow with a white beard and he's building presents for kids
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okay i'm with you that's probably a better answer than i was.
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To keep coming up with yeah hey yeah we're so
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happy to have everyone here and in the chat
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as well we got some chatty chatters in the chat nick
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we got thomas conga we got scotty
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good to see you buddy we got tim askin good to see you bud we
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have rob p howdy new folk gutbuster mike
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in the house i love when he's around the guy fills me
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with joy and we have aiden more 52 yo good
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to see you but guys as you know the show is live we
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have questions that you guys can ask in there of course
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we have an amazing guest today and if you have any questions for
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our said guest put them in the chat it's your
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show as much as it is ours so before we go any
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further just a quick quick uh mental check as we're
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supposed to because we are a community josh how you holding up man
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like it's crazy season now it being december corporate season
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one gig after another not a lot of rest
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we're living off muesli bars that we eat in our cars on
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the way to gigs how are you man are you
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okay what what a time to be alive hey there was
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a there was a moment there was a moment on saturday
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so last week on friday and saturday i had three events on both days and like
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midway through saturday i was just like holy crap i'm so tired but from doing
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the thing i love so like so much so it was quite conflicting so i'd done like.
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Five out of the six gigs for that friday and saturday and the
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last event was on a party boat where i had to
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get on and they were just at like crazy energy and
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the boat hardly stopped because it was coming to a different dock just
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to pick me up so like they hardly pulled in
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the the person the crew member just like held
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onto a ledge and like held at their arm as if like we're
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in parts of the caribbean or something they're like they're like
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jump on and they're like gave me my i like gave them my case
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and like now it's your turn I'm like oh man I'm too
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many gigs deep for this anyway and they like pulled me on I'm
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like this is wild bro but it's so
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fun and yeah time management is
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just so crucial right now like it's so easy
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to like the my little 30
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second anecdote the first gig of three for
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one of these days was a private show
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at a house and two of the people weren't there yet so the client
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really wanted to wait until those two people got there and
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the uber said there'd be 20 minutes but 20 minutes
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will make me late for the next one so because
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silly me didn't leave enough time like i let i i arrived early so that i could
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spend 10 minutes after the show and then leave but like i didn't account for
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like them needing to start late because of their guests and so it was a really
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conflicting moment because i can't be like no we're starting now and it doesn't matter because like.
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It's not the experience I'm trying to give them. So it's a real lot of coordinating.
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But what about you, man? What's, how are you and are you keeping up with the heat?
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Are you using the Arctic cool vest? This is stuff people all want to know.
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Thankfully, it's been pretty chill. Hasn't been too hot here.
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I mean, like today is only 22 degrees. I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, like six.
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So it's, it hasn't been too bad, thankfully, but like I had to shave my beard
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for a gig just last week because I had to dress up like the Mad Hatter and so forth.
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And it's been one hour for another, but they've been so much fun.
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But with the moment you stop, like I got home on Sunday and I was going to get
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together with my buddies, go sim racing.
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And I thought, I'm just going to lay down for an hour and then I'll go hang out with my buddies.
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Blacked out for four hours and just, yeah, just hit the wall.
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But these are the joys we have. And I wouldn't trade it for the world,
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friends. And I think neither would our guest today.
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Now, friends, our guest was someone I met way back in the day.
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In fact, I had the pleasure of meeting our guest back in 2011
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in fact i have a signed copy
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of his dvd to prove that he performed during the oceanic
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fism competition and he blew my mind and was my favorite performer that evening
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and when he told me he had a dvd available i was more than happy to purchase
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it in which he signed he signed it saying to nick this is when i first got in
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the magic dude he signed it and he said to nick the best beginner magician I've ever seen.
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Keep it up. Cheers for the beers.
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Friends, without any further ado, please join me in welcoming one of my most
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favorite local magicians, if I may, Mr. Alex Moffat.
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Wow thank you nick so how moody i
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look on that dvd i think i was going through a tough
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time during that photo shoot yeah we all go through it we all have that same
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feeling now looking back at old photos let me zoom in on that you haven't changed
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look at that wait sorry zoom in on that go ahead yeah look at that bad boy covering
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one eye that's so yeah yeah i mean he hasn't changed He still looks great.
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He's still got a full head of hair.
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You look younger than us. Yeah.
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Anyway, how are you doing, Alex? Welcome to the show, Alex. Please tell our
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friends who are you and what do you do?
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I'm Alex Moffat. I am a keynote speaker. I use neuroleadership and cognitive
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illusions to help people rewire their brains.
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And that transforms how they think, lead, and adapt. So talk about high performance,
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human connection, and companies that are going through change and transformation.
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So I help them with that, but I'm also a magician since I was seven years old.
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So that's where the illusions come in. So I do that as a gigging job like myself as well.
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Sorry, if I may, Josh, I just wanted to know, like you're talking about like
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helping the corporates sort of reach that level.
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Do you see a lot of similarities between high level corporates and high level magicians?
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As in the audience, you mean? The corporate audience? As in people in the training
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that you, yeah, as in like, do you see a commonality between a high level corporate
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person and a high level magician?
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Potentially yes the i mean the
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higher we go the more the less you know sometimes about those
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people but yeah there's a certain stature or
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or around some high-end corporates and the
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way they carry themselves and the way they present the way
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they're organized the way more teams around them am i right way more money that's
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it so everything's sort of set up for them as well they've got teams around
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them so yes but they're all what i found down-to-earth people as well you know when it comes to.
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Linking it to magic you know they're just like anyone in
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terms of when they see magic but yeah there are
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certain similarities i would say that's a good point do
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you find talking to these big upper
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management levels or ceo audiences that magic
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can really disarm them because they instantly realize he knows
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something i don't know and that kind of gives you
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that edge yes yeah so
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i've spoken to a few over the years who have
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seen something i've done maybe if I've presented something on
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stage or hosted something or just
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in like a morning tea you know something
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like that where it comes up in conversation and that helps them
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to let their guard down and they tell me a bit about themselves I
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remember one of them distinctly was super high up in a
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bank telling me just around his acting that
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he'd done in his classes back in the day so it just
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opened it lets barriers down opens conversation
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but even so the ceo
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of the last bank that i worked at uh he's based in in melbourne he had seen
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some stuff that i've been doing along with his communication managers on linkedin
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and that's where i've spent most of my time over the past four years it is linkedin
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heaps of videos that involve magic that communicates messages.
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And they asked me because of that to close his global leadership conference
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to 300 global leaders to communicate the purpose and strategy of the bank with
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a five-minute piece using magic and I've followed us to do it so it's that sort
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of thing that magic does to people they go.
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We could just use this you know and you don't have to be some huge person to
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communicate it you know, to be some, one of the executives to communicate it,
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I was just, you know, middle management type guy.
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Doing some magic and they went right let's get him to close the whole thing so
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that's so good magic is such a great way to
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create this wonder emotion that we
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never feel normally as adults and then attach a message to it that really helps
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it stick is is what i found with keynote speaking and so it's no surprise that
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they brought you in to do that you know beautiful so i have a lot of questions
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regarding how you use magic as a tool,
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but kind of before we do that, I think it's kind of nice to know where you came
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from to know how you got here.
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And so let's circle back to how you kind of got into magic.
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So from my knowledge, you actually got into magic at like the ripe age of 16,
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which is pretty, I think a very, very good age to get to start doing it.
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You have that level of maturity as opposed to, you know, sort of it just being silly, whatever else.
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But what I'm sort of curious about is along learning magic at 16,
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did growing up around and studying like fine art shape the way you approach doing your magic?
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Yeah. So it was actually seven years old. I got into it. My grandpa did it.
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I think the 14 16 may it's probably there on some websites that's when i had
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my first paid gig it might have been 14 actually so i've been just practicing
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as a little kid for a while,
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but then i was always artistic at school
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i was good at maths as well but i didn't know
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what i wanted to do and in england you just had to
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do a university degree that was it unless
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you really specifically wanted to be like a doctor or a lawyer just getting
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a degree helped you get into anywhere so it's
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also about the experience of going to uni and social life and
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things like that so fine art was what i i chose what
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i was good at and in the end
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you start off doing oil painting which is
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what i was doing anyway but i you just naturally
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morph into something that's really personal so if
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i look back to this huge space in
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leeds everyone has their own studio space white
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walls maybe three meters by
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three meters sort of box type area and you're
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just free to just sit in there and just
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create and you go to a few lectures history art
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history sort of lectures and things like that but it's a
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real sort of creation process and the lecturers will come in have
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a chat with you see what you're working on and then give you some tips pointers.
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Go away do it but i because of the passion
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for magic just thought i'm just going to
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involve deception illusion somehow in my
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art and created pieces that
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were interactive with people who came into my space and ultimately
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the degree show as it's called which is the final show where you get marked
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on along with your dissertation as well which i've got i think in my bookcase
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somewhere back there titled illusion in art nature and magic i think it was
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all interactive and it involved invisible threads,
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involved those glass tables that you see, but there was no glass on it yet the
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cards were on a perfect plane so it depicted glass so people would come up and.
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Sort of try and feel that there's no glass there was
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two spades sort of the handles on
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the floor falling apart from each other with the heads here and
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two chains one from each one with hooks on the
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end pulling them together holding them upright but the
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hooks were just not quite meeting so it caused
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people to put their finger through the middle because is there some thread there
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holding them that they can't see so it caused that interaction but there's nothing
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there and of course that was welded chains and i believe i'd never seen you
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know the wine bottle welded chains the wine holders i'd never seen them before
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so i believe i came up with that original years ago,
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welding a chain to make it look like something but it was pulled taut took me
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ages you know i don't know how i did it then with no real no internet but it
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was that sort of stuff and i loved the interaction piece i loved how it communicated
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something and it was deceiving but it wasn't your typical magic it was just involving magic okay,
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Yeah. So that's where I feel like using magic as a tool to communicate,
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you're doing that extremely well.
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And since then, you've used that in business, right? Which led you into a totally
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different realm outside of magic, which is the financial realm, correct?
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Yeah. So I've been in financial services in banking, wealth,
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insurance for the past 20 years until July this year.
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So full-time at those things I mentioned earlier.
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It's, yeah, I think that started
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when i first got into a bank and i'd be i was
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a financial advisor after being i was a teller in a
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bank for like eight days then on the front desk for about a month then
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a customer advisor personal banker you know the ones that help you with
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your credit cards and bank accounts and all that then became
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a financial advisor and i used
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to do training sessions and of course the magic was there
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the passion they all knew i was a magician so i'd weave it into little sessions
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to make them interesting rather than just something that's forgotten you know
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half an hour later so it always communicated the point of what i was trying
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to get across with some kind of magic effect whether it be a 60 second piece
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or not and that just grew and grew and grew and eventually.
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Yeah took me places and people started expecting it of me whenever i was asked
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to do a session it was like oh you're going to do some magic and of course i
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then whenever i had something coming I just created something because it was an expectation.
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Otherwise, I'd be letting people down, wouldn't I? So it was just ongoing.
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You know, for the viewers listening to this, I have a question that's just burning
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in my mind because you have done this route where you've created a lot of magic
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that magicians use and work and...
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And it's amazing stuff, amazing technical stuff, like the flux deal.
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I can't believe the first time I saw that, I was like, what the hell am I watching?
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And I feel like I know no magic, you know, like I have no skills compared to what I'm seeing.
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So you create these effects, you put out DVDs, you go to these competitions,
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but you do still make the choice to take this day job route,
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this corporate job, which in hindsight was perfect to now have the authority
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to talk about what you talk about now.
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But for those listening that might be just getting into magic or are thinking
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about a hobby and stuff, you know, we'll jump to the end later.
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But at the start, like, what was the process of deciding to not pursue magic
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full time? Or did you try or was it not even a thought?
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It did. It was a thought. I remember at 16 years old, I said to my mom and dad,
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I want to go and work on a cruise ship. And I got a book, How to Get Work on a Cruise Ship.
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And I wanted to be a professional magician. Just joined the Leicester Magic Circle.
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And that's what I wanted to do. But they said no. And probably quite rightly,
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you know, that is probably too young to be thinking, leave home at 16 and go
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and work on a cruise ship as a magician.
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So it had crossed my mind, but I fell into then uni, of course,
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three years of having fun, had a little residency there as well.
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Then traveled around the world with my
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now wife so i met her at uni and did
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a bit of busking at circular key just where the ferries are
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near the opera i did that for three weeks so it
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was always there but just got into when i got
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back from traveling just got into work because just needed money so
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it was never a thing on my mind then where i thought i'm going to just become a
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professional magician now and fell into
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the banking but i found that of course the pay
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was quite good enables you to get property
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and then it was just
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harder to sort of go right i've got to quit this now
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and try and start this so it's something that was
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just momentum building then of course starting a family three kids
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moving to australia getting in
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the property market here is really hard like really hard
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and so i was renting here for seven
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years and so just trying to get a place was tough
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so therefore it was never really an option i think to go right i'll just
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pause all this and try and build this so it was always slowly
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building on the side and you mentioned the
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word authority josh as well that's super important to
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me as well the credibility to do what i do now it
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was about 17 years ago when i first moved to australia where someone said
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you should be a keynote speaker it was on the induction course actually for one.
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Of the banks and use your magic as your gimmick as
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he called it so everyone's got a little quirk or a
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gimmick as a keynote speaker just makes them different you should
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do magic it pays well and i thought that'd be
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great i would love to do that but i've got no credibility like
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what am i going to talk about i don't feel i could preach or teach or show authority
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on anything so i waited and waited years and years and years and that's when
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i got into leadership and i just thought probably after about five years of
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leadership it started going oh maybe i could start talking about this now,
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and then after 10 years of leadership that's when now it's all happening so
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I didn't personally believe I had the credibility authority to do it.
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Early on but i probably should have started a bit earlier than
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i did you know because we met we we met
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eight years ago and did a show and your stuff was
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very cerebral back then even then you were
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giving these anecdotes about different feelings the brain could
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do and you were showing it with an effect at the same time like
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the light and heavy psychological illusion and
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stuff to be honest like that felt very authoritative
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back then i'm just going to say we were talking about
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keynote stuff back then i think and you i feel like you could
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have but now maybe now you're more set up because now i
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just see every other day you're presenting somewhere flying here to go present
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there and so sometimes just gradually getting into it can be great but yeah
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i just want to say i feel like you were ready when i first met you thank you
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i'd forgotten i did that light heavy thing that was yeah putting a.
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A pack of cards in their hand that was empty, an empty box, I think.
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And I was just slightly pressing on their hand to make it feel like it had some weight.
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And then I think just releasing it at another moment or something like that.
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No, no, I remember it pretty vividly. You were talking about how people see
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stuff and assume they can see the whole thing, right?
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Like you see a car and you assume the rest of the car is there.
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And then you were saying, have you ever had that thing where you go to pick
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up something light and all of a sudden it's way heavier than you think it's
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going to be and then I think at the end I think you vanished a deck and then
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when they go to pick up the box,
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they realize the whole deck is in that box and they get that experience of I
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thought this was going to be like paper and now it's heavy and oh my god.
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Weren't you holding that but now you're not and it was a real whirlwind of an
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experience It's funny because the DVD that Nick showed that's called Illusion Through Expectation,
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and what is that say 2008 dvd
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and so what i was talking about then josh
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at that show we did was probably around expectation and
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how it creates illusion so that light heavy expectation the
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expectation of something being heavy and it's light like if you think a
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coffee cup's full of coffee and it's not your hand
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goes up fast it all comes from this
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expectation effect that is what i studied in my fine art professor gombrick
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who i still quote to this day in my keynotes and he's at the very beginning
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of the trailer of the dvd and i even quote that paragraph now some years later
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so everything from the past seems to be.
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Coming full circle now in these little things throughout the journey that are wrapping up now.
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Yeah. And in banking, when you go to check your account and you feel like there's
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going to be nothing in there, but all of a sudden there's hundreds of dollars of interest.
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That's the light and heavy effect you're experiencing right now.
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I'm just riffing here. Yeah. So there's principles
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that you have in your magic that obviously apply
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to the neuroscience and the psychology that you do in
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your your talks how do you influence that
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in in your like with your keynotes like what's actually covered
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yeah that's a great question as well so i
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listened to have you heard of a british magician called peter wardell
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yes one of the most awarded magicians from
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the uk like i think magic circle close up three
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times won it i think a fism prize is international
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mcmillan's one ibm he's done them all and he
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used to do a podcast one of
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the i think very first magician's podcasts and
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it's called magic state of mind and i have
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a feeling it was around 2015 16 or
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something like that but it was great but he was
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on a journey to become a keynote speaker himself and so he
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used to invite people on and i remember them talking
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around how do you have magic as a
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message what should come first the message followed by supporting magic
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or the magic and then you go and here's one
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you know this is what i'm talking about and it's all very interesting but i've
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gone on a bit of a journey with it myself where i don't want the magic to be
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overstated so i don't want it to be it's not a magic show it's not a magic keynote
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probably 70 to 75 percent of it is learning material.
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And the magic pieces or illusion pieces are experiential.
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A couple of visual things, got some nice expectation effect visual thing with
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an elastic band in there.
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But I want them to experience what I'm talking about because the experiential
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learning is the best way of learning at the same time.
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So it's a 100% learning thing, but probably 30% of it is them experiencing something
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with a demonstration or vibing off someone who's on stage with me and what's
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happening with them and they're bouncing off that too.
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But coming up and linking the things takes time. So it's an iteration.
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It's like, well, what's the best thing that I could use to communicate this
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message? It's really hard.
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Yeah. Throw nine ideas away and you get the 10th one.
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If I can give a little bit of feedback, not feedback, but a little thing I was given.
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Obviously, we're all familiar with Vin Yang and his keynote speaking, you know, empire.
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When he was first helping me try and create a sales keynote,
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what he said to me was, the next sales book you read,
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take every single chapter in that book and think of what effects could you tie
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to that principle that would be relevant and could make people think,
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oh yeah that's right that's why he did a linking effect because that's
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how we link in or whatever and then he was like
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do that for every chapter and then at the end
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look at the 20 different things you've done and
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see if they're like what are the three best like
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cohesive effects to principle for anyone
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listening that's kind of like a way you can kind of start like if you are looking
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to do a keynote on a particular subject that that you're well versed in that's
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take like all the different things you could talk about and see what effects
24:27
you can link to them and what are the strongest for it. Yeah.
24:31
So it's definitely difficult to blend all those together. So for example,
24:35
combining magic, storytelling, and the neuroscience into your work,
24:38
that's a very difficult thing to do.
24:40
Now, is that something that you chose to do or something that was kind of thrust
24:44
upon you and you just sort of took it as an opportunity?
24:47
So the storytelling thing, it's great you mentioned that because,
24:52
In the last four years, I've been following a lot of storytellers and reaching out to them,
24:59
listening to their podcast, storytelling podcasts as well, because I've realized
25:02
that that is super important to be able to communicate something to an audience
25:06
in a succinct way and using various structures.
25:09
And the neuroscience bit so i'm not a neuroscientist
25:13
myself but this came after the 10 years
25:16
in a bank redundancy 2022 and there's
25:20
a firm a big firm based out in new york called the neuroleadership institute
25:24
and we in the bank had been using
25:27
some of their material that they purchase put
25:31
on the intranet as it's called to help us
25:34
as leaders so there's some structures frameworks principles
25:37
that we we can use with our teams and i
25:40
was fascinated by it because it was brain-based and when this is a nice thing
25:46
with this particular bank when you made redundant they give you ten thousand
25:49
dollars as a retraining fund and you've just got to spend it within six months
25:54
doesn't matter when you start you just use it within six months of leaving and so i thought.
25:59
Neuroleadership institute that's going to strengthen me as a leader because at
26:02
this point I didn't think I'm going to go and do magic full-time
26:05
or speaking full-time I want to get another leadership role and so
26:08
that'll strengthen me as a leader it shows that I've done some study as well
26:11
while I'm not working and so
26:14
I did nine months in the end one of those was a full six month weekly webinar
26:20
with probably about four hours of homework each week presented back then an
26:24
assignment right at the end and it was just amazing but as I was going through
26:28
this learning And there was two other courses around coaching as well.
26:31
So I became a brain-based coach.
26:34
I was just connecting these dots going, that would be such an amazing principle to
26:40
to use with this bit of learning here or this bit
26:43
of coaching or to get this point across so i was just writing
26:46
notes around magic stuff as i was writing notes
26:49
from the course that i was doing or from a lecture that i was
26:52
on with one of them and just connecting dots and slowly
26:55
in my mind building something for the future that is
26:58
what it is now so i the credibility
27:01
thing that we're talking about earlier josh is that i've now got a decade of
27:05
leadership leading teams where i've actually use neuroleadership frameworks
27:09
coaching my team individuals and they're brilliant in terms of the deeper way
27:17
of coaching like way beyond the grow model that people might be familiar with.
27:22
So i've lived it i became a neuroleadership facilitator
27:25
on their bench of facilitators as well so that when they have one
27:29
of their new frameworks out or one of the existing ones then they
27:32
can tap into me to go and facilitate it
27:35
for an hour with a company and so it's
27:38
i'm living and breathing it but i've connected all these dots
27:41
with the cognitive because magic is brain-based of course isn't
27:44
it's why people get tricked this thing's going on with their brain and
27:47
then of course these neuro leadership principles and so
27:51
it's all come together as one mixed with
27:54
storytelling mixed with case studies that have
27:57
researched mixed with something that will
27:59
be visual or cognitive that helps get that point
28:02
across that they'll remember forever because that's what magic does
28:05
you know when you perform your tricks you might see someone 10 years
28:08
later and they go i remember when you did that trick 10 years
28:11
ago you know it's it's amazing so it just talks to the mind so deeply now when
28:17
you're sharing these stories well you know like in the storytelling notion i
28:21
want to know your thoughts on this like is it important like does the truth
28:25
need to get in the way of a good story so it depends where this is going so.
28:31
Yes and no. So yeah, you've got to, yeah, you've, you've got,
28:36
I ask you this cause I battle this myself.
28:39
Like, should we let the truth get in the way of a good story to the point where,
28:42
you know, from a personal standpoint, I love the idea of doing a confabulation
28:46
in the theater of magic that both Josh and I perform in.
28:49
And I decided that I hate, I hate lying by nature.
28:54
And I do, and I do pride myself on being genuine.
28:57
And then I thought to myself, like, what if we did a confab rather than trying
29:00
to convince them it's real that i tell the audience.
29:03
You know every theater has a ghost except this
29:07
one and it's sad i think we should make one up let's make
29:10
up a bullshit ghost story so you guys can.
29:12
Leave the theater and tell all your friends that we
29:15
before we went to this magic show in this theater and there's a
29:18
ghost and you can tell them the story
29:21
that we made up and it'll just be hilarious and they'll believe it because
29:23
we made it up now to me that's genuine
29:26
because me by nature i'm a i'm a clown i'm a big kid and i
29:29
will like love the idea of that but that
29:32
was something i was pondering over the weekend just thinking to myself like you know
29:34
what make it a lie make him part of
29:37
the lie and then let them bring them in on it this great big
29:40
lie like why not that's fine
29:43
i think what where my head goes with this is that i would never
29:46
use magic or mentalism or
29:49
whatever concept in magic as a
29:52
method to communicate the point
29:56
in a way that they can't
29:59
then do themselves practically so the
30:03
magic's got to be there to support demonstrate communicate
30:06
but not be sort of contrived in
30:10
a way that i'm i'm lying you know saying this
30:13
is how we do this is a bit like the should i say it a bit like the I'm using
30:19
body language reading stuff and then selling a book on how to do it but you're
30:26
using other methods I'm a human profile specialist and I'm going to do mentalism the.
30:34
And I knew you would draw Santa with a green hat and a red suit and a yellow
30:38
pair of socks because on Tuesday there was a full moon and that meant that you're,
30:44
you know, we just don't mind. So that sort of stuff, yeah.
30:49
And, you know, there's a lot of talk around the famous mentalist out there at
30:54
the moment, you know, with his book, but they can't do the methods that is actually
30:59
being done to promote this book.
31:02
So that's where I think it is a bit different. So I'll always use it to support.
31:08
I'll never say that the magic, this is what I'm doing and do it another way.
31:13
What about this example? What if it's the type of thing where me in a sales
31:16
role, right? There would be times that I would get pushed back on certain things.
31:21
And to avoid them pushing back on me, I would like, they would say like,
31:25
I can get this one cheaper.
31:27
And I would go and I would smile and go, you know, my dad always said,
31:31
And then I would say my retort because they can push back, but they're not going
31:35
to say my, like they might go, you're a dickhead, but seldom will they ever
31:38
say that your dad's a dickhead.
31:39
Right. So I would, so they might go like, it's, you know, like I can get one cheaper.
31:43
And I go, you know, I laugh because, um, my dad always said what's cheap ain't
31:48
good. And what's good ain't cheap.
31:51
Yeah. You know, the real trick is to agree with them when I, you know,
31:56
in terms of magic to help people listening to us people might
31:59
you might get someone say when you quote someone a
32:03
fee they'll say ah but i can
32:06
get someone for half that price and your inkling
32:09
is to try and combat that price but what what
32:13
works so often and i and please everyone try
32:16
it is when they say that you go yeah they
32:19
say like yeah look i i just i have a quote i can get someone
32:22
for let's just is an example you're $500 they
32:24
can find someone for 250 and you go great look if that's your budget you should
32:30
hire them and they'll do a great job for $250 and then that's it and then you're
32:35
saying like yeah go do that and you'll get a $250 like experience and then they'll go oh actually.
32:43
Yeah, I want to see why you're $500. All right, I'm going to book you.
32:46
Like the amount of times, and I think ego comes into play as well.
32:49
Like people want to see why.
32:51
Like, all right, I'll spend that money. I'll see. Okay, my little comment didn't
32:56
work and I'm still going to book you. Because sometimes they just make that up, you know?
33:00
Yeah. Anyway, just agree with them and let them come back.
33:06
Yeah, and that's about just identifying the difference between an objection.
33:10
And basically a comment.
33:11
Like, you know what I mean? like an objection doesn't really require like that
33:17
requires you to retort but if it's not an objection to anything they're saying
33:21
it's just you just agree to it yeah it is expensive,
33:25
the key is to try to and i learned this in in
33:28
the bank with dealing with clients and customers and their
33:31
relationships objection prevention so in
33:34
your little spiel or proposal
33:38
whatever you do just have things weird in there that try to prevent
33:41
any of those objections coming in the first
33:44
place so you'd have to deal with as many or handle as many so
33:48
the same ways you can do that by raising raising things
33:50
up front yeah like
33:54
an example might be like now just think
33:57
off my head like an example could be now i i understand i
34:00
am more i am on more of the expensive side when it comes to booking a skilled
34:04
performer but that's because i come with awards i come with you know 20 years
34:08
experience magicians learn from me because of this stuff I bring to the table
34:12
and you're going to get a unique experience that no one else can offer so yeah
34:16
this is the thing and then now they can't,
34:19
would that be a good example right because now they can't say why you say you're
34:22
addressing your value without,
34:25
having a question or knock it down well you know what so you,
34:29
All this is kind of leading to doing gigs, and I think it's about time for a
34:32
gig story. We hit the halfway mark. What do you think, fellas?
34:34
We do a gig story? Let's do it. Go on, man.
34:38
So gig stories is a section of the show where we talk about little magical moments
34:41
from our life, either while just performing from day to day or while doing good
34:45
old-fashioned gigs during this crazy Christmas season here in Australia,
34:49
starting this week with a story from my friend, Josh Nebito.
34:51
Yeah, what's up, Nick? We really are good friends. I'm just going to jump to just a funny situation.
34:57
Last week one of gig number I don't
35:00
know what it was but it was in a backyard it was for 10
35:02
people they had a chef they had a really nice like exquisite setup for their
35:07
10 employees that they really wanted to give a wonderful experience to so we
35:12
set up a little parlor show outside kind of like a mini theater of magic esque
35:16
feel like 10 chairs in a semicircle around us outside and And we're like,
35:22
about to start the show.
35:25
And then something you just don't account for is old Nate next door just cranks the lawnmower.
35:36
Like, what the? It was the craziest, like, unpreventative thing you could think would happen.
35:45
That's the most Aussie thing that could have happened to ruin your show. That is hilarious.
35:50
It was so funny. Now, I'm exaggerating a little bit. It happened like 10 minutes
35:54
before the show started, but
35:55
I just want to give you the feeling of what I thought was going to happen.
35:58
But it did, it really did happen like 10 minutes before and me and the client
36:01
just look at each other and we're like,
36:03
We did not think this could happen. So we just had to say like,
36:07
okay, if he hasn't finished in 10 minutes, we're just going to have to do the show inside.
36:12
But thankfully, that wasn't the case and we were able to.
36:16
But yeah, it was just a super weird moment I've never had to experience.
36:21
Is anyone around your house, does anyone have a long lawn?
36:28
Does anyone have grass that they could potentially be mowing on the day on there?
36:32
It was anyway that was weird because it
36:34
was daytime it was like like four four oh
36:37
it's five p.m in the afternoon so yeah but that's a that's a one in a million
36:42
situation but far that's funny as really really is um i was doing a show a couple
36:49
of weeks ago i don't know if i mentioned this or not but i feel like i haven't
36:52
so if i'm repeating myself i apologize but i was doing a gig,
36:56
at a little little restaurant little greek restaurant about an hour and a half
36:59
at a place It's called Aries Inlet right there on the coast next to this giant
37:03
white little light tower, you know, for like the ships and so forth.
37:08
And it was a 40-minute rove. That was it. Like it was just a really long drive
37:12
for 40 minutes of roving and then going home.
37:14
So it was two tables set up and on the back sort of like, what do you call it, the deck?
37:21
You know what I mean? And beautiful views. Everything else was great.
37:23
And so two tables were great.
37:24
I'll sit down, do a 20-minute close-up set, go to the other side,
37:27
do another 20-minute close-up set for their two long tables. and I'm done.
37:31
So I do my sets, all worked out great. And then as I go to leave, Mr.
37:35
CEO comes up and he's like, okay, do one more. And I'm like in the middle,
37:39
fully surrounded. And I'm like, okay.
37:40
So I do like one more little thing. And I just do a coin bit where I'm doing
37:43
muscle passes to my eye and on the shoulder and under the watch.
37:46
And then I produce a jumbo coin and he takes the coin and I take my bow. Thank you very much.
37:51
But then he pockets it and he won't give it back.
37:54
And he, I'm like, come on, man. He's like, no, no, no. Thank you very much.
37:56
Thank you for coming. I was like, come here. And I was, and I was like tussling
37:58
him, fooling around. Right. I was like, come give me back my pen.
38:01
And you're like, your cheeky bugger. He's like, no, no, you go away.
38:03
And then, and then I just stand back and I go, all right, all right,
38:06
all right. And then I wait him a couple of minutes. He's like,
38:08
I don't have it. I don't know what you're talking about.
38:09
And he's like, this is going on for longer than it should at this point.
38:12
Like it's stopped being fun.
38:14
But I was one ahead. I was one ahead because at that moment,
38:17
now mind you, like the chick who booked me, Kaz or Caroline,
38:20
but she preferred to be called Kaz because, you know, classy folk.
38:23
She was right there. And I was one ahead.
38:26
And the reason was because I just turned to her at that point.
38:29
I say, all right, guys, I tell you what, and I get everyone to calm down.
38:31
I have the floor and I go, listen, if you give me back my coin,
38:36
I'll give you back your phone.
38:39
And everyone goes, what? And I just reach into my top it because I lifted him
38:43
and I tossed it into my top it.
38:45
So I reached in as if it was coming out of my breast pocket took it out of my
38:48
top it and I show his phone open it up it's filled with cash credit cards everything,
38:52
and yeah it's like one of those wallet type things and then he and then everyone
38:56
just like goes oh like suck in anyway I give it back to him and Kaz looks at
39:02
me and she just like like mouths you know WTF like what,
39:07
and I just look at her and say and this is like a new catchphrase I just look
39:11
at people I just go I'm that guy and that's it and I just walked out of there like a bus.
39:17
Yeah. Nice. Well handled.
39:24
I don't know if josh is talking josh are you
39:27
speaking right now i am muted yes i was talking to
39:30
myself for a few minutes and thank you for being silent while i
39:33
did that it's much appreciated luckily our editing
39:36
will cut this out in spotify so you'll know nothing of
39:39
that delay no one will even know what happened what i
39:42
was what i was saying to myself was that at
39:45
least you did it on purpose and gave
39:48
the phone back unlike our listener alex lamb who recently
39:51
didn't a gig and just took the client's phone
39:55
home with him by accident and then the
39:57
wife called him and he had to realize in the taxi holy shit i have the client's
40:02
phone anyway so at least like you did it the right way do the right thing fellas
40:07
do the right i can't wait to hear alex's now let me give a quick gig story about
40:11
alex watching alex for the first time we did a show eight years ago.
40:15
And I was in Sydney and it was really cool.
40:18
It was like a little theatrette with like maybe it could fit maybe 100 people,
40:23
but I feel like they'd set it up to fit like 80 people, like really intimate,
40:27
but tiered leveled seating.
40:29
And I know the magic I do and the magic I watch, but I hadn't been exposed to much of Alex's work.
40:36
And the first thing I see him do is he comes out with a deck of cards.
40:42
He's explaining it, really nice fan. It's like really beautiful.
40:45
And he's got like the deck of cards.
40:46
He's like taking the cards out, put the box in his mouth to like show the cards.
40:50
And then he's like, let me start again. And he drops the deck from his mouth. It hits his hands.
40:56
And all I can say is the deck just re-box itself back into the sealed pack, ungimmicked.
41:03
Like no, it's not a shell hitting a deck and he's perfectly landing.
41:09
Like no, this deck of cards I can absorb this back into the box as if by magic. And.
41:17
I was gobsmacked and I was kind of like, hey man, where did you buy that re-boxing deck thing?
41:25
And he was like, and then he explained, no, no, this is sleight of hand.
41:29
Like I just sleight of hand to that moment.
41:33
This is actual skill.
41:35
And then watching it the second time, knowing with that in mind,
41:38
I was like, who disappears is
41:42
a full deck of cards that are not like
41:45
attached to themselves or anything to be able to
41:48
create this moment and so anyway that was my moment
41:51
of experience through what
41:54
is it experience through uh demonstration or whatever whatever expectation yeah
41:59
i had a real moment and then and that's when i realized all of the work that
42:03
alex does is the technical stuff you would read in books that's like a delicate
42:08
finesse to a slight, but Alex does it...
42:12
In the real world. Like we were having a conversation about this move that I
42:15
would do just purely for Instagram or for video.
42:18
And he's like, nah, you can do it in real life. In fact, I do it with two cards at once.
42:23
It's like the most angle sensitive thing I've ever thought to try.
42:26
But he's like, nah, this is me doing it in real life with two cards and it's
42:30
great because you can move them to the top. And I'm like, this is ridiculous.
42:35
Anyway, Alex, what's your gig story?
42:37
That is a great move as well. I have a recent gig story.
42:43
And then just talking around things like when you accidentally steal something from someone.
42:46
I've got one of those as well that is like told every Christmas,
42:51
I think, for the past 10 years here. So shall I start with that one?
42:55
Yes, please. Because we've got to let people know. Yeah, this is your first
42:59
podcast appearance. So no one's heard this story.
43:02
World champion and winning podcast as well. Yes. I love it.
43:07
So this was a social event. around our house in sydney and drink was involved
43:14
lots of drink i think it was christmas or new year's eve it was something like
43:17
that and we had some friends around i was doing a few tricks,
43:22
back then i stole watches as well i don't do it so much now i think the older i get the more,
43:27
confidence i've lost doing it but i've done heaps hundreds in my time so anyway
43:33
this guy had a Breitling or Breitling, how do you pronounce it?
43:36
Like a $10,000 watch, Irish guy.
43:41
And I stole it and I thought I'd do a bit of time misdirection, right?
43:46
So I didn't just reveal it a minute later or anything. And I'd hidden it, right?
43:52
And then time went on too long.
43:55
There was just too many more drinks going on to the point where he was like,
44:01
where's my watch? He's an Irish guy. I'd forgotten. I'd stolen it.
44:09
And then I'd forgotten where I'd put it. And we could not find it all night.
44:14
And literally, they sort of put a bit of a dampener on the end of the night
44:18
because he was like, is this a $10,000 watch?
44:20
He came around the next morning. Everyone was really hungover.
44:24
And we were looking through the bins. There was prawn heads everywhere. It just stank.
44:29
And in the end just found it tucked away in this little box just randomly off to the side,
44:38
about three days later did did
44:40
you tell him that you had stolen it and that you were going to give it
44:43
back or did you just go with oh where is your
44:46
watch yeah forgotten it and then
44:49
he'd realized his watch had gone like i don't know it
44:52
might have been an hour later or something i just
44:54
i totally forgot not even done it but it was just one of those big big nights
44:58
lots of drinks so that was a classic because i was so nervous obviously of having
45:04
to give him a watch back or buy him a new one lots of money but the gig story
45:09
we've got time yeah time so this was last friday,
45:12
two things in this one a good thing and then an awkward thing so i get there
45:16
it would been set up as a roving magic gig and i made that very clear like multiple
45:22
times moving from table to table and then when I get there the lady says so
45:29
we're all going to sit down for you to do your show okay,
45:32
And I don't carry a bag of anything as a close-up magician. I come with everything
45:36
in my pockets. I'm not a bag magician.
45:39
And she said, I said, isn't there a speech at seven or something?
45:43
I'm due to go to start like 10 past seven.
45:45
And she said, yeah, see, I will do a little speech.
45:49
And then everyone will sit down. And then at the end, at eight o'clock,
45:54
they'll get their buffet.
45:55
And I'm like, but I'm going around the tables from table to table.
45:59
So they're going to be sat there doing nothing, not allowed to eat.
46:02
Until the food comes out like an hour later.
46:04
I said, we're doing roving magic. That's what we arranged.
46:08
And in the end, I thought, what's the solution? Because if there were seven
46:11
tables, if I start on one and they just sat there with no food.
46:16
The tables at the end are just going to be like just thinking when's he
46:20
coming i'm starving so i just said to
46:22
the the chef guy can we just bring the food out
46:25
early and then he goes oh i need to talk to them and i
46:28
go yeah come over at a little huddle meeting and then
46:31
we we started just getting the food out early and then i just moved from
46:34
table to table and did it staggered you know so that they got their food in
46:37
sort of stages type thing but yeah it was one of those where the expectation
46:42
of what they thought was just different from mine even though you try really
46:46
hard to get it set up exactly as what you you charged as well like it wasn't
46:51
a stage show for almost an hour.
46:54
So there was that one of those tables turned out to be really amazing best table
47:00
there because as i start with my cards i i always say look if you've got your
47:04
own pack of cards i'll use yours,
47:06
and no one ever has of course and then
47:09
this one girl just goes actually i do and opens her hand back and
47:11
brings out like a mock b deck
47:14
you know so it's not a b deck but it looks like that a sticky
47:17
coated not bad condition and they go ah
47:20
they start sort of laughing thinking they've got me you know because it's their
47:23
pack of cards and of course i always use just
47:26
normal pack of cards anyway so i go right bring it
47:29
over and then did my usual stuff a 10 card
47:32
multiple location which is my favorite routine to do
47:35
i've crafted some amazing sort of productions and reveals and finds and other
47:40
bits that go on and the eyes closed card catch i thought i hadn't because it's
47:45
all in my damn it wait let's let's maximize this oh here we go there we go yeah.
47:57
Glad i caught that so yeah live the yeah well that's it like,
48:04
I remember years ago with Ice Closed Card Catch, I did it in my competitions.
48:06
I just, I like taking risks.
48:08
I just thought, if you've got to do good things, you've got to take some risks,
48:11
like you do on Next Level, both of you now beyond what I do there.
48:16
But yeah, it's just better reactions the more risk you take.
48:19
Sometimes it doesn't work, but there's always a joke. I always do the second selection.
48:24
So what I do is I head down, and if I miss it, I make the adjustment.
48:29
I go, not that one, that one. Nice. So that if I catch the first one,
48:33
I'll be like, not that one, that one.
48:36
Oh, cool. I give myself a chance to make the adjustment just to tune in, nailing the second one.
48:43
And that's my little safety that you influenced me to do.
48:46
Pussy. No, I'm just kidding.
48:50
First time only, Nick.
48:53
One and done, bubble. Okay, as far as stories go, there was a story about a hire me.
48:59
Sorry, I don't think we're at the end of Alex's story yet. It was the third
49:02
reveal, and it was at that point, because I'm in my muscle memory of doing my
49:06
10-card location, or however many people there are, and I come to it,
49:10
and I go, right, eyes closed, head down.
49:13
I always do it as an instruction, and the person sits there at the table,
49:17
and eight times out of ten go,
49:20
and themselves and it's like no not you me like in
49:23
table sort of laughs at them and and i do it but i
49:26
thought oh shit i've never done it with these cards before
49:29
i don't know how springy they are what they're like and i've
49:32
committed i'm stood there unfortunately i caught
49:35
it and it's on instagram actually just recently
49:39
but it was that and then
49:42
the deck vanish at the end and then i oh shit I've got to give the deck back
49:45
and I'm like yeah at some point it will appear just went off to do another table
49:53
and then eventually just walked up casually behind her while no one was paying
49:56
attention I just handed her back but yeah that was a good gig memorable gig apart from the start.
50:03
Yeah so there's a story there's a story of a hire me video that you did when
50:08
you were applying for a role in the banking realm Can you share that story as well?
50:13
Yeah, it was actually to try and get my visa from England to Australia.
50:19
Because, and I know we've only got a short time left, but I worked in the Royal
50:25
Bank of Scotland in England. So NatWest was the bank.
50:28
And there was a bank in Australia that you'll know of called BankWest that was
50:33
owned by the Halifax Bank of Scotland, UK bank, at the time.
50:39
This was 2008. and they were expanding all
50:42
their new branches on the east coast of australia and
50:45
they needed financial advisors so they were recruiting from
50:48
england because they couldn't get them quick enough in
50:51
one go locally so my mate was reading the newspaper on the toilet i used to
50:57
work with him in netwest and he'd already started off a business in australia
51:02
in adelaide a year before me moving out so 2007 moved out still talk to him
51:06
to this day like almost every week and,
51:09
And he said, mate, because he knew I was trying to get to Australia,
51:13
there's a bank called Bankwest and they are wanting financial advisors.
51:17
They're recruiting 10 and so i got wind of
51:20
this through him but i wasn't in that bank i was
51:22
in the royal bank's gone so i sent in an application i
51:26
unfortunately was doing quite well so i had
51:29
good references and things like that but it
51:32
was my wife's idea she just said why don't you just send them a
51:35
short video of yourself because it's that stuff that just separates
51:38
you and just do a bit of magic so i created
51:41
a hire me video it's 28 seconds long i think and
51:45
it was four reasons why they should hire me and it was the paper
51:48
to money but it wouldn't fly in today's
51:51
world certainly not in financial planning because it's less
51:54
about the revenue and royal commission that happened and it's more about you
51:59
know values behaviors and things like that but back in the day i knew they were
52:02
just driven by money making money these businesses so each one had a four reasons
52:07
why they should hire me and then just flick them and it changed into four ten
52:12
pound notes i think and And I said,
52:14
if you want to see that on Australian money,
52:16
you've got to hire me. And that was like the final line.
52:19
And they played it to the executives of the bank.
52:23
Because I wasn't from Halifax Bank of Scotland. I was from a different bank.
52:27
And one of the executives just apparently said, bring that guy over.
52:30
And they bought nine Halifax once and then me from another bank. And that's how I got it.
52:37
Yeah, wow. Hey, we have a question too coming in from Herbert here.
52:41
From because because you performed in the uk
52:43
and in australia have you noticed any
52:46
differences in customers he's saying specifically restaurant
52:50
customers if you did any restaurant magic but i guess
52:53
in general when performing are there any main
52:56
differences you notice yeah i i did a lot of gigging in the uk a lot of weddings
53:02
like i had a restaurant residency as well once a week for a couple of years
53:05
at a high-end restaurant in york amazing entrepreneurial owner and so i've performed
53:13
to people from all walks of life like yourselves and,
53:16
And I think there's not too much difference between the Pommies and the Aussies when it comes to it.
53:22
I find there are slightly more alpha males over in Australia,
53:26
though, who might be a bit more don't like not knowing how it's done type thing.
53:32
But they're still rare. But that would be probably the only thing.
53:37
Otherwise, they just love magic just as much as the Pommies. Restaurant wise.
53:42
It's more of a thing in the UK, and wedding magic is more of a thing in the UK.
53:47
So table hopping is really big over there. I've got mates who are magicians
53:51
full-time that do that stuff every single weekend.
53:55
Whereas wedding, I saw you do one recently, Nick, on your Instagram,
53:58
but wedding magic I don't think is as well-known as a thing to do here as it is in the UK.
54:03
Almost every wedding has got a magician in the UK, it seems.
54:06
So they're more familiar with seeing magic at their table while they're eating.
54:12
And that's probably a difference. But as a personality and person,
54:17
the Aussies just, I think, react the same way culturally.
54:21
Yeah. And I think weddings are a different experience in the UK in general, right?
54:25
Like from what we've been hearing from wedding magicians, a wedding in the UK
54:29
is a whole day and night event.
54:32
Is that right? Yeah, it'll start in the lunchtime sort of ceremony, like church.
54:37
Yeah, go off to the venue, photos, and then it will just go into the night, DJ later.
54:42
The magician now either be afternoon or evening i've
54:45
had a lot of penetration in that market in the past year because of
54:49
doing the like the wedding days and
54:51
so forth and doing it specifically at venues where people come to the venue
54:54
to have a look at what they're doing because it's like oh we're looking at
54:57
having a wedding here and then you can show that like i do weddings
55:00
here many of them and i mc because they always
55:03
they know they're needing mc right but they
55:05
don't know they need a magician so when you say that you can do both you
55:08
can actually double down on that now you'll cost more than a normal emcee but
55:11
what you get in return for it is is enormous and
55:15
yeah and i and you know the feedback i got was like we booked you before we
55:20
booked anything like we booked you before we booked a venue before we booked
55:24
caterers flowers everything we just know that like you had to be there and i
55:28
remember their wedding well because we did this really they were so cool this couple they were like.
55:33
They were just like your cool, nerdy folk. They played video games together.
55:37
They did board night games together, but they were really tight.
55:39
And so were all their friends.
55:41
And I remember this because the maid of honor was telling stories about they
55:45
somehow got like an industrial length of aluminum foil.
55:50
And they basically went into a bathroom and they wrapped everything in foil. Everything.
55:57
Like they covered the bathroom, the shower, everything.
56:00
Even like her toothbrush just everything was
56:03
wrapped in foil even like her like her sanitary pads
56:07
were individually wrapped everything was just wrapped in foil everything right
56:10
now she's telling this story in her speech so i snuck off to the kitchen and
56:17
i'm like can i get like a meter of just you know just some foil please and i
56:21
was like is that enough yeah and so i wore it as a hat.
56:26
So she finishes her speech and then I just walk out and I go please give a big
56:30
round of applause to Sarah or whatever her name was and I'm wearing the tinfoil
56:33
hat she looks at me and her jaw drops and everyone just pisses themselves and
56:38
I'm like what? what's so weird?
56:39
I was just hanging out with blah and they were just wrapping some things in
56:42
foil and everyone loved it and they were just like when you came out with the foil.
56:48
So you're making memories yeah that's so good that gives me one Quick anecdote memory.
56:56
Last week, I was doing a torn and restored rubber band.
56:59
And if I can visually, it's the one where you...
57:04
Do this visual for anyone who is watching it. Anyway, you have a broken rubber
57:07
band and it looks like you just instantly restore it back into itself.
57:11
And people are reacting, but this one girl comes up to me and she's like,
57:15
wow, wait, can I have a look at the rubber band?
57:18
And I made a real tense moment and I just said, no, it's a trick.
57:23
And then that burst of like tension caused her to laugh so hard.
57:28
She actually had to sit on the floor, like proper crying laughing.
57:32
Because here I am doing like a serious, and it goes back together.
57:37
And they're like, well, can I look at it? No, it's a trick.
57:41
It broke the tension so well that I'm going to do it all the time now because of course it's a trick.
57:46
And then I knew I had something to back it up later. But like on the floor,
57:50
like two minutes, like it was great.
57:52
It became a thing with like check on her and, you know.
57:56
But we can't leave yet without knowing Alex because there's one underlying thing here,
58:01
which is everyone's heard how great you are at your banking
58:05
roles and leadership roles but somehow
58:08
you decided to leave that to do magic and
58:11
i feel like that's a struggle people have is if i'm safe in the job i'm doing
58:16
how the hell do i go and do this magic thing that i hear people doing like how
58:23
did you make that jump so built up over many many years obviously you know it's.
58:30
It's kind of a thing where starting a family, getting in the property market,
58:35
like I said, it became a no-brainer just to carry on.
58:38
But building it on the side where at some point you just find the right time and you know it.
58:44
And redundancy was the thing that caused it for me.
58:47
The first one, not so much because COVID had just happened.
58:52
The mortgage rates were just super high as well. They've been increasing, haven't they, in 2022.
58:56
So everything was even more expensive than it
58:59
was when i was in a full-time job so it but
59:02
it was the recent redundancy in may so i was from a large
59:05
insurance company and it was
59:08
then i just thought well i'm no no safer in the the work corporate world than
59:14
maybe trying my own thing so it was that that made me do it but i'd set myself
59:19
up to enable to have perhaps a smoother transition because i've been building
59:23
the keynotes on the side for about four years and after that ceo gig.
59:30
And the study of course along the
59:33
side and then i've been doing magic gigs since 16 14
59:37
or something like that so i knew
59:40
i just could turn the notch a bit more but it
59:43
was going to be tough so the first few months were really tough and it
59:46
was like questioning should i do it or not i even in the first redundancy did
59:51
ubering for six months which not many people know about i don't really sort
59:54
of advertise it too much but did it for six months have my business cards i
1:00:00
picked up an mc gig along with some roving from a guy that's just local and
1:00:05
a few other small things so.
1:00:08
But it was flexible, financial, and it allowed me to then just create stuff on the side.
1:00:13
So I still have that, the stickers on a shelf over there to stick in my car
1:00:18
at any moment should this start going a bit low because it's a really flexible
1:00:22
way of earning some money.
1:00:23
But so far, so good. I don't think I'll ever have to do that again.
1:00:27
So it's about having, I guess, a few avenues to go down if you need to,
1:00:32
but build stuff on the side to the point where it's a seamless transition and
1:00:36
you'll know when the time is right. but try and use it in a way that's unique as well.
1:00:42
You know, I taught people, build your networks on the side so that you're sort
1:00:45
of more prepared and ready.
1:00:48
Yeah, so, and Herbert is saying, he loves that. Thank you.
1:00:52
That realization that you're no safer in a real job is something I needed to hear.
1:00:57
I think I remember Jim Carrey gave a beautiful speech at a college,
1:01:02
I think, and he basically said his dad, he
1:01:05
watched his dad have a safe job for years instead of
1:01:08
trying to make it as a comedian and then he watched his dad get
1:01:11
let go and fired from that job and have no
1:01:14
money and that's when he realized like you may as well go for what you want
1:01:17
because what you don't want to do in the safe job you could be let go which
1:01:20
is exactly what you're mentioning except for it sounds like you were twice yeah
1:01:25
but it sounds like you were prepared which is the the main thing like in the
1:01:30
background building up for that moment.
1:01:33
And I suppose that something that you could look at that I thought about for
1:01:37
years, because I did have a residency, you know, Four Pines Brewery?
1:01:41
I thought in Manly, a magician called Jules Tagg had it for like 12 years.
1:01:44
And I was his sort of guy that came in when he couldn't do it.
1:01:47
And so I was there a fair bit when he had a baby, young kids and less time.
1:01:53
But I thought, oh, I need a residency. That'd be really great.
1:01:57
And so that would be something to try and get while you're in a full-time role,
1:02:00
like whether it's one of those quiet nights, like a Tuesday night or something
1:02:03
when nothing's going on in your full-time job,
1:02:06
Monday night even, and try and find a residency because that's then going to
1:02:10
be getting your chops up, getting your drills in, getting your networks out
1:02:15
there, getting your content as well that you can put out.
1:02:17
So that it helps that more seamless transition. And you're in the safety of a full-time job now.
1:02:23
You can be doing that just trying to hustle a bit on the side while you're in
1:02:27
a full-time job. So build it.
1:02:30
That's really great. You've got to hustle is what I'm hearing.
1:02:33
It's not just going to come to you. You've got to do the day job, spend the weekends.
1:02:38
Read the book, The Luck Factor by Richard Wiseman as well.
1:02:43
We all know he's an amazing magician, but a psychologist. And it's a scientific study of luck.
1:02:47
So you go through the principles in there of what makes lucky people lucky.
1:02:52
Like thousands of people, I think, over six, seven years. Six,
1:02:56
seven. It's like, we're always saying that now.
1:03:00
And then why unlucky people are unlucky.
1:03:03
So if you follow some of those principles, which I do now, you find
1:03:06
that opportunities come to you and you go with the
1:03:09
mindset of something's going to happen today
1:03:12
i'm going to make my own luck today somehow and you find
1:03:15
that you see things that you otherwise would perhaps miss that's really
1:03:18
deep before we close off here nick was there anything
1:03:21
you wanted to add to that thought wave well not
1:03:26
without talking at length but i just thought before we
1:03:29
sign off like just thank alex for being on the show it's
1:03:32
been nice to reconnect and we've only had a couple of interactions over the
1:03:34
many years that we've known each other and so it's really good to see
1:03:38
where you're at and knowing that you're that you're committed to the
1:03:40
magic realm entirely i think there's going to be many more opportunities for us
1:03:43
to cross paths now that we're walking in the same circles and
1:03:46
that that fills me with joy because anyone who hasn't
1:03:49
seen your magic is missing out and everyone who is
1:03:52
fortunate enough to see it is can it is
1:03:56
such an experience and i think that your dvd
1:03:59
and what i've learned from it you know like it's
1:04:02
it's really interesting for you to think about it like you're sitting
1:04:05
opposite someone right now who's like what you've taught is part of now my magic
1:04:09
dna and it's been part of my successes so there's something that i wanted you
1:04:13
to know that like moving forward that like you know my opportunity now is to
1:04:17
say thank you for that and thanks nick what did you do to express that so thank you.
1:04:23
Beautiful. And so we're going to end our episode in the way we always do.
1:04:28
If you want to follow Alex's work, all his links, his website and Instagram handle are in the bio.
1:04:34
You can always reach out to Alex if you do want to learn from him and he can
1:04:38
explain where you could find the DVDs or the books he's put out.
1:04:41
Really worth checking out. Like, as you said, Nick is actively using it in his work.
1:04:47
I'm eventually, once I get to that skill level, going to use some of it as well.
1:04:51
And it's just like really great. I would call it underground stuff because it's not mainstream.
1:04:57
And I really like that because it's really difficult, but so magical stuff.
1:05:01
Like making a full deck that you've just been using vanish without a table,
1:05:05
just in front of everyone.
1:05:06
Anyway, we're going to end our episode in the way that we always do,
1:05:09
which is by giving our guest the final word.
1:05:13
I would say, as my final word, but think
1:05:16
of magic in a way of how can you use it
1:05:19
to communicate something so don't just think of it as entertainment
1:05:22
try and start thinking out of the box ways of what magic can do for you and
1:05:27
where can it lead you because like what happened with myself it's led me to
1:05:30
places that i never knew it would at the time so use it for your advantage in
1:05:36
a good way to help you in your career and you know financially prosper from it as well thank you.