Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #071- "From the Corps to Cops" with Jesse Noriega

Transcript

#071- "From the Corps to Cops" with Jesse Noriega · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This podcast episode is brought to you by Reality Defense Incorporated, located in Pleasanton, Texas.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: For more information on courses, visit realitydefensenet.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Practical, efficient.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Again that officer that just got off shift.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: He doesn't want you to BS him, just get to what he needs.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: So when he or she goes back on shift, they can use it if they need to.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: If you've never been in a case that will determine whether you have not just a job, but whether you're going to be indicted because someone feels that's what it is, yeah, and you haven't been a police officer long enough.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Blue Grit Podcast.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: We are back this week.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Your co-host Clint McNair and Tyler Owen.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: T-O.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: T-o, good, good, tyler Owen hail there, I don't know.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: A couple weeks ago this is being recorded.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, probably about three weeks ago.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Disc size hail, like the size of a DVD player, I mean it was disc size and me and Janet were bunkered down but it shattered, completely shattered.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: An entire evening patrol shift at Hayes County Deputies on their patrol ship between Wimberley and San Marcos.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: But yeah, sort of fighting to the insurance notifying them and kind of going sorting through all that.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: He sent me video and it sounded like artillery fire, like maybe they were getting, uh, mortar rounds coming into their house.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was bad, it's bad.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: So welcome to central texas.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, uh, I'm from east texas.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: We got little pea-sized hail and that's, that's something you know, catastrophic out there.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I'd never imagine, uh, getting boulders fall from the sky, so anyway, yeah, how's everything over with you all good, all good.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I cannot complain.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: I'm excited to have a guest co-host on the one, the only, joey sepulveda.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Welcome, mom bub thank you.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: By the way, this is not sponsored by sprite.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: He just likes.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Just likes the flavor, so Sprite.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: If you're interested in sponsoring, you can give us a call here at.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: TNPA.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: So, contrary to Layton, he calls it Sepulveda.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Give us the sexy pronoun.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I want to hear from Joey how it's pronounced Sepulveda, sepulveda.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Tell us who we got on today.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: This is a good friend of mine, jesse Noriega, very well known in the San Antonio area.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: He knows what he's talking about.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: Good guy.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: He's one of the guys.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: I will tell you that.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: And he's one of the guys.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: I will tell you that, and he's got some good envisions for law enforcement all across the state of Texas.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: Cool, good stuff, good stuff.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Hey, before we kick off, what's going on down in your hood?
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: What's going on in your area of operations?
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you a lot.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: I've started about three to four new associations down in the Bexar County Hill Country area.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: Shout out to Floresville, pio, poa I'm sorry POA and Bernie, and let's see Castle Hills out there and Windcrest, and of course uh converse and uh a few uh others that are uh now starting to uh kind of uh come across and wanting to start their own association.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Cool have you ever been to bernie?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I've been to bernie bandera all, yeah, down, all down through there.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Have you been recently like last couple years.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you right now, the last time I went to Bernie was probably 2012.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: So I went down there a couple weeks ago with him.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I messed around and I got lost and driving home back to Wimberley through the Bernie area Well, number one, bernie is blown up.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, it has.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It's massive.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: They're building another high school.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Now, massive it's.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: They're building another high school.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Now it's a six, wow, it's a six, one, six, eight, and they're building another four.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Right, yes, really, yeah, yes, so that things.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: That puts things in perspective yeah, I haven't been there in a while though it's massive, yeah, so I was kind of blown away, uh, by that, but, and I think I mispronounced.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I misspelled the damn word and text.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Of course she, mr san antonio, here the mr bandera texas, gave me shit about it.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: So for those that don't know, bernie, I'm going to flash it above the screen.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: That way you can get the correct spelling.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Just now learned how to pronounce New Braunfels and Atascosa, so I'm working on that.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: But, dude, you got those two down now Down.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I wake up every morning and practice those two.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So if I can now practice Bernie man, we'll be A-OK.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: TO when did you say the last time you were in Bernie Before this visit?
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Like 2012.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: So 2012.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: So that was the old PD that they had right.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So I was in law enforcement, but I wasn't a part of the.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: TOPA, oh, I got you.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: I was visiting, so what did you think about their new building?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: It's nice.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you think you know I didn't picture what I walked into.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: It is a nice, pretty nice Hell.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nice.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: The chief there is really laid back.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Former local association president.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Now, he's now chief.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: We've seen success with that in Galveston.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: So he's just a cop's cop.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: But yeah, chief Steve Bettis, he's really cool down to earth.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: I've known him since he was a senior patrol officer, saw him in my career move up the ranks and now he's the chief of police.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: That's cool.
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: Good guy.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: He opens his doors to just about anybody.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: You can see why.
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: He let most y'all in.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: He saw him and he said oh, he's okay, who's?
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: That other guy oh it's Joey, never mind.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Go ahead.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Thought he was bringing him a prisoner.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Let's kick off, man.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: Tell us we like to start kind of on the ground floor.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Build up, tell us where you grew up, where you were born and tell us a little bit about you.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Man well, I'm a native San Antonian.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I'm the first generation American in my family.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: My parents were immigrants when from From Tamaulipas, just across the border from the Rio Grande Valley.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, actually, my mother from Tamaulalipas, my dad from uh eagle, uh, piedras negras, which is across from eagle pass.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so born and raised san antonio, uh, if you're familiar with san antonio from the west side, the shallow west side now I'm proud of it growing up whereabouts, whereabouts.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Well, it's what we call the 23 side.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So it was a rough side of town, uh, unbeknownst to me growing up Right, and what I mean is not.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: There was never a time when I wasn't proud of it.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I just didn't know I was growing up in such a rough spot.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: You only know what you know, absolutely.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So to me it was growing up.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I think I I saw my first body when I was in the fourth grade, holy Holy cow.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: So episodes like that were typical.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: But proud to say I had both my parents more my mom than my dad left to the Marines at 18, right after graduation, hoorah, and did eight years as a Marine.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Who's your most?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I was a 5811 and 12, military policeman and canine handler.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 5811's MP basic MP and so I had to follow up with that.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I was shaking my head like uh-huh.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Typically we'll give those Hoorah.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Hoorah, did you go to Lackland or Fort McClellan?
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Lackland actually.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was too.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so as a military policeman, when were you there?
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: First two months of, first three months of 92.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: First three months of 92?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: So I was there in the last three months of 92.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, so for you guys who don't know, the Marines would train their military policemen in Lackland, with the security forces Not intertwined but same facilities Marines, navy and Air Force.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: So I was in the last class that was taught at Lackland.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Then I did some time there as a dog handler, getting trained to be a dog handler, and then was an explosives dog handler in the Marine Corps for some years.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Lackland's got a renowned canine program, Really really significant canine training program.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: That's where I got my first Nella, my first dog.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Oh cool, I didn't know that.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she was rejected from DOD for being an aggressive lab.
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: Can you believe that?
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: An aggressive lab we're going through MP squad.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Stand out and watch all the canine handlers that were in training.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: I'm like man.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: that would be cool, until you learn how much they work with them and you're like oh God, yeah, I'm not into commitments, that's true.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: I never had any kids.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: All right, that was my kid 24-7.
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: I hate sorry, sorry, I was gonna say yeah, wait till you get home.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: That came out wrong wow, all right, I'll edit that shit out so, uh, yeah, that's my time in the marine corps.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Uh, after that I did 10 years as a reserve marine.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Matter of fact, there's some time up here with Camp Mabry.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: What made you pick MP?
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Because everybody in my family is law enforcement, so MP was kind of a natural thing.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Did you have any law enforcement family?
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Actually, I felt I had to get back at my recruiter to be honest with you.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I asked him hey, what do you think I should be?
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't know any Marines.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I had seen a Marine that was the brother of one of my friends and I said, dude, that looks badass, I'll do that.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: So that was my drive to be a Marine.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: So the Marine recruiter I was that kid that they wanted walked in and said I'll sign a 20 year contract right now.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: right, no work for them sounds like you probably didn't need a lot of combat training.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: This is the west side of the San Antonio there you go.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I've seen more buddies than a recruiter, no force to conquer.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: On a side note later on, as a Marine.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: By the time I came up with this idea, I was 12 years, probably as a Marine, but if I had to write a book about my life, it would be titled I learned about being a Marine.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I learned from my mom, cause I'll tell you you talk about covering a line and do your bed in the morning, it's true?
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know if she likes hearing this Now it could be called abuse, but uh, she took my brother and I out of elementary school, dragged us back home Cause we didn't make the bed one day, and out of elementary school dragged us back home because we didn't make the bed one day.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: That's good stuff.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: It is Nothing wrong with that.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you we'd cringe before we walked into the door.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: So we lived in the projects at this time.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: We lived in the projects we call them the courts in San Antonio.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Going back to me growing up, we'd cringe if we saw my mom with a look of I've been waiting for you because we knew we're going to walk upstairs condos, the projects, our condos did you tell the drill instructors?
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: this is pretty easy because you haven't met my mom.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: This isn't bad.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Can you amp it?
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: up please.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not used to this.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: His ass gets cut loose for the weekend.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Can I stay?
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Are you sure you don't want to catch me on that?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: See, I'll get back, that's awesome.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so anyway.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So then my time as a Marine.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Going back to YNMP, the recruiter tells me dude, I've got this badass job for you.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: It's called security forces.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: You're going to be like the SWAT team of Marines.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Who doesn't want that?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: What he neglected to tell us, tell me, is that after that I'm going to be a grunt.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Now, no problem with being a grunt.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I was a grunt later on in my career, no problem with that.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: But I just felt like like dude, you lied to me.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: You lied to me, so now I'm gonna make your life miserable.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: You're gonna give me I want this job now.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Keep in mind, I didn't think like this at 18.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I was just pissed off.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I felt somebody lied to me.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: If there's anything my mom taught me as well, it's like, dude, you don't lie, you don't let anybody lie to you.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: So he's like I won't be an mp, can't?
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: There's no openings for it?
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Well, that's, I'm gonna remember.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I'm the kid that walked in, said 20 years, no work for him.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Now he's gotta work for me.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So I made him work for me.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So when he got it, I was like shit, I don't want to be an mp, I want to be a grunt right.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Because that's what this guy was in uniform, that I made that one time.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: By this time, I've done my research and grunt is where you want to be, so I took off as an MP.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: That's funny.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: I've got one in the Navy right now and I've got one that's in high school about to join, and I told him the exact same story.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: He goes when I get up there.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: The recruiters are going to be a lot of pressure.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: I said they are, but you call the shots in there and he goes.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Would you do?
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: I said I walked in and told them what MOS I wanted and they told me they're in a spot available.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: I said cool, see you later.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: And he went bull.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: But I could probably find, I could probably find that spot.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, happen.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: And then suddenly he was able to make it happen.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: He's like, okay, so it's negotiation.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: I said yeah, but it's like going to buy a car.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: That's right, you're the one calling the shots, you don't have to buy the car, but you negotiate till you get the deal you want, not what the the used car salesman recruiter that's right what?
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: you.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: That's funny.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: That's exact.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Just had this conversation like two weeks ago with my boy.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll tell you.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Uh, so I have a younger brother that's in law enforcement and a marine.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I'm, uh, I'm, stationed the west coast.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: He calls me up, says guess what?
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: The recruiter just kicked me out of the office, said I'll never be a marine.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I said why?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Because I said I want to be an mp as well and he wanted to give me something called security forces.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: So my brother, my brother is pissed.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's been looking at being a, but as a matter of fact, he wanted law enforcement.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I never wanted law enforcement.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: He wanted law enforcement.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: He wanted to be a policeman.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: We were both policemen.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Now, did he?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: want to be an MP, because he big brother, because you were you know I can't say that because he had aspirations for law enforcement before I did okay, uh, but I want to say that I made it easier for him because my my next comment for him during that conversation was like again, just like the used car salesman right, dude, give it two days.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: He's going to call you and ask you if you have a driver's license.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: You need a driver's license.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: You specifically needed to be 19 and have a driver's license to be an MP, sure enough.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Two days later, his recruiter is going man, do you have a driver's license?
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Get in here, you know.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Days later, his recruiter's gone.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Man, do you have a driver's license?
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Get in here, you know.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: And so yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: So he followed the same path.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: He did four years, I did eight years and we're now both policemen, been policemen for over 20 years.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Cool, same agency, same agency yeah.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Cool, good dude, same agency.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Same agency yeah.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Cool Good dude, so to our guests watching.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: He works for one of the largest metro departments in the state, an unknown, unnamed but one of the top four or five four five largest agencies in Texas.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: We'll leave it at that.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have a lot of tactical training in the service and that's what kind of led you to the tactical aspirations whenever you did join the pd or when you left and got into law enforcement man.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I was very fortunate I received a lot of tactical training in as a marine, as an mp, uh.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Because oftentimes some don't right that's an accurate statement, so I mean a lot of guys, you know, and this isn't any shot and some claim they do.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: This isn't any shot at any Marine, but you think you know, prior to my law enforcement experience, is you think Marine?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: You think every single Marine gets like top tier Navy SEALs, top, you know, top.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And that's not the case, sure.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: And I won't claim I got Navy SEAL training.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: No no, no, but I was very fortunate to meet some very good dudes.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that felt I was probably a good piece to their team.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Teams probably had a lot to do with my dog too.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that I had canine capabilities, but that opened had a lot to do with my dog too.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that I had canine capabilities, but that opened up a lot of doors, a lot of doors for me, uh, to be able to get some pretty high speed training.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you, I was 22 years old, learning how to do explosive breaching, you know which was probably big.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Back then not all people did of people did it?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So a lot of these courses that now in the tactical world we see as holy smokes.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: It'd be pretty cool to have that capability in our team.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Man, I was doing it in my early 20s.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Back in the 90s?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, hitting on my age a little bit.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, early 90s, absolutely.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: There was two big shifts too in tactics, in the MPs but also in the military also.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: So, like pre-Shield and Storm, a lot of MP work was garrison police work, like driving around in a squad car working the main gate, you know, doing DWIs, working the main gate doing DWIs.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: When Shield and Storm happened, the Iraqis were surrendering so fast that they didn't know what to do with them, and so they had to shift a lot of MP training from garrison police work to how to manage a POW, how to manage mass surrender of prisoners of war and some more field MP work.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: So that happened in Shield and Storm.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Well then in the GWAT, when the Global War on Terrorism kicked off, that then changed a lot of tactics because we went more from kind of some traditional fighting and managing to the GWAT was more like guerrilla warfare and the tactics changed a whole lot.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: So there was two pretty big shifts in it and it's really transitioned into the civilian SWAT and police tactics too, because in my career I've been retired 10 years I never would have thought about like vehicle vehicle born IEDs or somebody wearing an S vest, and that wasn't a reality years ago in police work and some of the considerations nowadays that you have to think about are totally different.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: And it's it's a it's a rabbit trail conversation, but you hear a lot of people go the militarization of law enforcement.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Well, when people are bringing combat-style techniques to a civilian, you've got to have some sort of way to counter that.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: And although it may be scary to pull up in an armored vehicle or to have to wear a kit, it's the nature of the beast now, but it's weird to see the dynamics as it changes.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: How hard was it transitioning from the military training and tactics to the civilian law enforcement aspect?
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: How far different are they?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: And then also, how well did those mesh and how easy was it for you to transition to both?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Because you see a lot of that with a lot of tactical teams across America let's just call it what it is where a lot of SWAT guys have served in special ops in the military.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Explain that transition process and how difficult was it or how easy was it?
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Like I said earlier, I had no law enforcement aspirations.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Reason why I became a dog handler is because is a lot.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: It allowed me to stay in san antonio for nine more months.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: There was probably a gal involved in there somewhere in san antonio that's a whole nother story.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: But I got out of the Marine Corps due to a breakup.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Decision had to be made Stay as a Marine, come be a dad.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: We know the answer to that Come be a dad.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: So, man, I leave the Marine Corps with no job, not knowing what I was going to do.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: That's how quick that transition occurred, and so much so that I I almost walked back to the recruiter and said, dude, send me back More because of the structure.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: But I was very fortunate in that I only had a four-month break between my active duty time in January of 2000 and starting the police academy in April.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, that's a blessing.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: That same year, yeah, and back in the day, it would take you a year and a half maybe to start an academy.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: If you were fortunate and I was it was only four months.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: During those four months, I'll tell you those were probably the most turbulent months of my life, as chaotic as my world's been after law enforcement, no structure, nobody to tell you what you had to do.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: And you woke up and tried to maintain.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: So my first day, all this leading to this, the first day I'm at the police academy.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Where I'm at, I'm getting yelled at, I'm being told how many pushups to do, I'm being told how many sprints to do, and I said I'm home.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: This is structure.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I can understand that.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: So it was a real smooth transition, except for those four months, mainly because I saw what it was to not have that.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: So I was grateful to have it again.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Did you stay in shape those four months?
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Stay ready, hell, no, hell, no Fat body.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Now I was lucky that I was 40, 45 pounds lighter, so you know, pure will at that point, yeah, but they quickly got us in shape.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I'll give credit to some of the great instructors that were there Just phenomenal.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I could say that I had a great experience at the police academy, so my transition was a good one.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Not to mention I was getting paid.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: That was the most important part.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I can feed my kids, house them, and so I was in heaven.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: But I will say that I was quickly thrown into the fray after the police academy and I was going back to what you asked about training in the Marine Corps At that point after a few months, like hey, where's the training, where's the follow-up training after the FTO program?
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: After being thrown to the streets, it pretty much wasn't there.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: It wasn't there and so… that's a reality across our state, unfortunately, absolutely, I'll tell you.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: I remember back to the guys in SWAT at the time who, for whatever reason whether because they could, they had the time were proactive, putting on some of this training for patrol and that left a huge impression on me that I felt these dudes in my mind at the time.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: These dudes don't have to be at my level.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: They're up there, what are they doing, spending their time trying to give us training.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: But I'll sign up for it and I did so.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: To get back to your question, it was a smooth transition just because of events that dropped me no structure I started climbing back up, but once I reached the plateau and wanted to get back to what I felt was the norm tactical training, always doing something.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: It was, man, I've got to seek it by myself.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I got to seek it out and, just like a book, I always tell my daughters man, if you're going to read a book, read about the author first.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Is he or she credible?
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I always tell my daughters man, if you're going to read a book, read about the author first.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Is he or she credible?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: What's their ideological views, so that you know what you're getting into and you can attain your own opinions based off what the writer's writing.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: That's good advice.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: So that was my transition.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: As far as training was concerned, I had to seek it myself, and since then it's been a constant battle to try to get it myself.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Speaking of training, how often did you train in the Marine Corps?
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: How did that look like?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Was it very often?
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: And then looking in law enforcement to kind of give a contrast and comparison of man, this is a huge difference, and I trained once every two days, once every three days in the Marine Corps, and then we're not training like once every six months.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And again, I'm not discrediting anything with the Marine Corps, but the reality is this is that the American police officer, more than likely, is probably going to come in contact or have a violent contact more oftentimes than a Marine Corps MP or an Army MP or a Navy MP.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: And so the thought process is that the Marine Corps, navy Army, all these MP guys in the military, are training far more often than the American police officer or the Texas police officer.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And so I guess that's what struck a nerve with you or caused you to kind of react or act.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Well, sure.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: So one of the things I saw when I was in Virginia was that the civilian agencies around the base there Quantico, marine Corps, base, quantico were after the programs the Marine Corps provided.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: One, they were free, so they didn't tap into their funding, their budget.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Two, they were pretty top-notch for the time.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Never heard of it, never heard of it, never heard of Quantico.
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: Really no, I'm kidding.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: It's like the best shit in the world.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I feel for them.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: A beautiful beautiful base, beautiful area beautiful people.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It's, all you know, overgrown now as far as the metropolitan area.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: But they saw that training, so much so that we had an exchange program where every police academy that prince william county would hold they would allow one marine to go through.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Now again, I want to make sure, uh, your viewers understand this is not typical of a marine marine mp.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: For me, as a dog handler, and then in what we call the special reaction teams, uh, the base version of SWAT teams for their base, I had a lot of time not on my hands, but I could help decide what was going on.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: So not to say that I was self-serving, but I was basically that extra guy.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: So when they needed to fill that quota, hey, send that extra guy.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Well, it worked to my benefit, right?
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: So I get to go through a police academy, I get to go through all that, one of the things that I say about the military, my experience with the Marine Corps.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what base were you at At this point.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing you're a Marine and a dog handler.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: No, I was not a dog handler, I was an MP when were you at Pendleton, pendleton?
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I can't speak for a base like Pendleton, who deals with so many more things than I did in the small bases I was in.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: I was in Otoro, I was in Quantico, I was in Okinawa but a typical MP, that's Japan.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Joey, that's Japan, yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: I got you, I got you.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And an island.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no Water.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that means there's water around it, but the military member is disciplined.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: So the majority of the people you're dealing with have discipline.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: That's on the positive side.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: On the negative side, if they want to cause damage, they can fast right.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: But typically and again I'd like to get your perspective I was never in Pendleton.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: That's probably where I know you from.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: See, when were you there?
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Uh 91 or 92, 93.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Dude, you were there.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Do you remember?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, simonette, simonette, dude, you were there.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Do you remember?
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Uh, simonette, simone, simonette you probably came after you after 93.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Anyway, he's a turd I thought y'all have like books once, y'all have once y'all read like the picture books, just pictures, don't read, yeah.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: So you can't say read and they and, yeah, they and, but it's the picture anyways.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the crayon, the crayon thing gets me, though that wasn't around when I was in.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can't say read and book.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's the picture.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Anyways, the crayon thing gets me, though that wasn't around when I was in.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: The purple ones are really good, but yeah, yeah, that's so good.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: So we had a lot of time to train, right.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: We had a lot of time to get these programs going that we wanted to Flip it around to the civilian side.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Man, you're a troop, you're out there, you're, you're handling cases, you're, you're, you're.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: You got limited manpower, the marine corps.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Again, I'm not talking as a matter of statistics, but the impression is you need 100 police officers, officers or MPs.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: We're sending them to you out here.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: You can't do that.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: You know you got to hire.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: You got to.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: You know we see what's going on.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: So training is outstanding.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Not a lot goes on out here.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: A lot goes on.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Training sucks.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: So in the you made a great point about a lot of training in the military but not as frequent opportunity to have a violent encounter.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: But one of the differences is like you're on a base like Fort Hood where you got I don't know 30,000 or 40,000 folks, and you got some guy with extensive special forces training who loses it due to PTSts or whatever.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: You're going to have your hands full trying to deal with that guy, who's may have negotiation experience or sniper experience, and you know all these vast amount of experiences.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah he himself is a weapon.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah and so, but it's a valid point.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: A lot more training, less frequency of opportunities, but unfortunately, when you, when one of them does happen, you got your hands full of it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: There's 30,000 Steven Seagal's walking around.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I ain't want to buckle that dude.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: But even with that point, even talking now or law enforcement senses, now we're starting to come across that those type of calls yeah.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and and us or law enforcement in Texas?
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: We don't have that, we don't have that training, not even a little bit to kind of like, even to hold back until we do get you know, reinforcements or more officers coming from a small department we talked about this earlier we don't have the ability to get on the radio and 15, 20 units get out here.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: It's like you and your partner.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: That's it, man.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: We better hold hands and pray, and let's go.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: One thing the military does really well as far as the MP side of it is is, I guess, train or instill some sort of maturity a little bit, because you know you got 22 and 23 year old cops running around here, sometimes doing stupid stuff or making bad, even off duty.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: I mean just doing stupid stuff that we do.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: But it was, it was, it was a wake-up call, like being a 19 year old mp, pfc, which is just about lower than the janitor, and you pull over you know lieutenant colonel on base and he starts trying to tell you to shut up and you're the one that has to control the scene as a nobody mp and you have a guy about 49 ranks above you and you're trying to professionally mitigate and de-conflict because he's clearly way, way outranks you.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: And that was something weird to wrap your mind around because I wasn't the most mature 19 year old, 20 year old.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: But they do a good job of it because it's there's a lot of success in it, but I didn't realize it till I got a little older.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Looking back, they did a really good job of preparing young people how to manage that responsibility and, um, I don't know what that recipe is, but they, they do manage that well I agree.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I agree with the part that I have no idea how I did it back then.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: No, I don't either.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Looking back and look at some of the dumb stuff I was probably saying and doing at the time.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: But we manage.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: You're absolutely right.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess a couple of months ago, six or eight months ago, Joey called and said hey, I've got this.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I've got this training group out of Atascosa with already a J blade, this training group out of atascosa with rdi jay blade mccullen uh, just got hired as the new training coordinator.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I think you guys met several weeks ago, uh, you know there's some, there's some good things coming out of this other uh training program that you are now the president of of a separate company, uh, rdi, and you guys are out of atascosa.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Uh, now that we know what fuels the fire of why you think you know training so important, uh, you definitely have the background and I think what, what sets it apart?
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Typically you have, you know, just military guys, just law enforcement, uh, but I think the mixture of you have military, you have the law enforcement and then you have the combination of the tactical experience mixed in.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: All that Plus you're just a real likable guy and approachable.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure why, but you tactical guys sometimes you get a can of hairspray and you get this.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Some of them just kind of have that non-approachable attitude, but every time that I've talked to Joey you haven't had that.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about the RDI and let's talk about what training that you are looking forward to and wanting to push to the patrol officers, non-patrol officers, cid You've got an upcoming.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I guess it is a plainclothes course.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I think that we're going to try to push out.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: So talk about what's important to you guys.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Sure that we're.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: We're going to try to push out.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: So talk about what the you know what's important to you guys, sure?
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: So, as a tactical guy uh, by the way, that's a, that's a title I try to push aside right away, but it's a, it's a description.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I, so I get it.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Uh, teaching on.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: On that side, the tactical side, I think I have a bird's eye view of what, what training is needed, what training is efficient and what training is practical.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: And by efficiency I mean that patrol officer that just got off shift and is being told you're going to this class.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: He doesn't want you to be there for with eight hours of filler BS training.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not big on verbiage, as you can tell.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I have an accent.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I was told I have a Colombian accent one time.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I mean it worked as a pickup line.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: I mean that was a segue.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I was going more Panamanian.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Panamanian, yeah, go for the name Again.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I could tell your age just by that.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So those of you who don't know, look up Operation.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Just Cause right yeah.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: So imagine going to boot camp right after that operation and General Manuel Noriega, yeah, I was like.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: Manuel, get up here, he's your deal.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: But for the sake of the podcast, I'll get away from the Marine Corps again, because you notice how it keeps leading to that.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Never put two Marines together.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: So practical, efficient.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Again that officer that just got off shift he doesn't want you to BS him just get to what he needs, so when he or she goes back on shift they can use it if they need to.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: And that's been our guiding principle is be efficient, be practical, uh, provide the training that's needed at the patrol level.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Nothing tactical.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I always tell this to my students if you want to look tactical, let's put 30 minutes aside, let's take cool pictures, yeah, and let's get that out of the way.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Now let's get to the decision-making.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: That's going to take you microseconds.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: That's going to change your life, by the way, because if you've never been, if you've never been, what am I going to say?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Hunted?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: But if you've never been in a case that will determine whether you have not just a job, but whether you're going to be indicted because someone feels that's what it is, man, you haven't been a police officer long enough.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I had a friend of mine with the Marshal Service.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: He said this.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: It was probably the best advice he ever gave, because we had a lot of guys on the teams and on SWAT teams, other SWAT teams.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: They try to make themselves look tactical with the I'm your huckleberry patches and you know the stupid shit.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: I'm an operator.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I'm an operator, but he said the best looking tactical outfit out there is the most practical.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I had fucking electrical tape shit.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Whatever works works.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of best shit that you need to happen, but anyway.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: We talked earlier about training and the transition to training and how it evolves over time.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: And you know, in the 90s it it was like hey, you're patrol, you don't need to know anything, you know tactical Right, because if things go sideways and you call SWAT and you surround it and hold the perimeter until SWAT comes, and really things have changed so much now that, like the agency I'm from, to really get a full team, a full call out and to get a team there, you're talking 50 minutes like ideal.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: I mean that is an ideal world and because of all the, the shootings and and just everything that's gone on you, the training you guys offer to a basic patrolman is needed more than ever because the, the surround and hold it for an hour while SWAT gets here.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: A lot of that's changed and it's weighed on a buddy to get here and by God you're loading and going and it's important those guys have that especially.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: You get somebody that's eight months out of the academy gets pulled up and all they can hear is automatic gunfire.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: You better have taught them something more than you know.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: pull your little nine millimeter out and run blindly, sure, um, and I think it's more important now than ever some of the the training and and um preparation that you guys are looking to roll out and one of the topics we could talk about real quickly for patrol, for example, that you could never speak about early in my career, keep in mind again I came in in january of or april of 2000 sworn officer by october of 2000, that same year those of you Marines trying to do the math that's over 23 years.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Hostage rescue I don't think people realize patrol takes care of many hostage rescues but not in the traditional sense that we think, not the tactical sense.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: But if you go to a call you've got a suspect holding a hostage and you talk to him correctly, he lets go of that hostage.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: You just took care of a hostage situation.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: You took care of it at the patrol level.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: If you say the wrong thing you could end up with a hostage in more danger or dead, or you have to call out the whole SWAT team and the whole department's got to shut down for a little bit to take care of this critical incident.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: So patrol officers are vital.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: One of the examples I use in how.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So let me take a step back if you don't mind.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I teach civilians about every six months in a civilian patrol academy.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: I do the SWAT portion and the question always comes up, man, when you're in SWAT, that's pretty dangerous, right, you have a very dangerous job.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, I get called out.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: When it's there, it's hit the fan.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: But really think about that patrol officer that responded.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Usually it's a barking dog.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Call right, older lady just wants to sleep.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I want you to come talk to me and tell my neighbor to tell that dog to muzzle it.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: You show up.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I always ask this how many people do you think that they send?
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: How many officers do they send to that call One?
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: So you're there at the doorstep, you step in.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: If you're smart, you step in, or you tell them to come out, just like a traffic stop.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Never stay at the threshold.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: You go in.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Patrol officer goes in.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: He's talking to this person, but her grandson, in my scenario, is in the back sleeping and is woken up by a police radio.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: What you don't know is that he's got a parole violation that's going to send him back for 10 years.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: What do you think he's thinking?
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: They're here for me.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: They're here for me and that patrol officer that just wanted to go eat but is handling this last call before he has for a break has an all-out shootout.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I said that's dangerous.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: That's dangerous.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: By the time I show up, I have the luxury, most of the time, to ask questions, get a recon, get oriented and, by the way, I have a bunch of dudes that think like me and we're all going to support one another.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: So our training is meant for that officer that's going to walk in knowing that anything can happen, but hoping that it happens one way.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: But we forget, sometimes a bad guy has to say so.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: So, um, going back to our training, our philosophy is practicality, not just what's cool today.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Um, one of the other things I'm real proud of is we actually have a standards for our instructors, believe it or not?
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I don't just get guys.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: It's like hey, I mean, joey, I'll use you as an example, but this is not what happened to you, right?
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Standards for our instructors, believe it or not?
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I don't just get guys.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: It's like hey, I mean, joey, I'll use you as an example, but this is not what happened to you, right?
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: It's not just hey, joey, we're buddies, come, come and teach this class man.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I want to know hey, joey, do you have the background?
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Can you back up what you say?
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: And these officers officers are very diverse in experience and departments, cultures Can you herd all these cats, send our message and when you kick them out of here, at the end of the day, are they better for it?
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: If you can do that man, you're in.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: If you can't, we'll keep drinking beers together.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: But let's not talk about teaching, and so that served me pretty well in hiring instructors, and I want to say that everyone I hire has a pretty good background.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: They're good dudes, um, and they're going to stay with that mantra.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: There's already uh acronyms that stand for something.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so the full name is reality defense Inc.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Okay Again, going back to my accent, can't say that.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Probably say that once a day.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Can't say that fast.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: So really, the rebranding was for my own sake.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: I got you and so now it's just RDI.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Got you.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I understand I'm from East Texas, so I understand the accent.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: You have a good friend of ours there at RDI too.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: Shout out to Eric Kaiser.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, eric Kaiser, that's a good dude.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know he retired as sheriff, as chief, from Jordan.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: He's now a lieutenant.
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: A lieutenant At Atascosa.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: Loving life, I think Enjoying himself.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: He is.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you if I ever hear a name and I don't know anything about that name, I'll call Eric.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Hey dude, who's this guy?
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Eric knows everyone, he's better than calling NCIC.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that dude's pretty cool.
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: Hey, that's who I called when I first came across Jesse in RDI.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, that's cool, that's why I was grateful that.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Why are?
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: you going?
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: To say it all narcos-y.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: That's the way you lean back and do what.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, matter of fact, I think he even sent a CI to greet me.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: First, gave him some information before he felt worthy.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Or he felt I was worthy of shaking his hand, my old DEA days man, and I'll tell you our police world.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: It's a small world.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a small world.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to say nationwide, because I'm sure I won't go to Georgia and run into someone.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I know, but you never know.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Well, it is, it is, I mean, we just got back from DC.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: It is, it is, I mean we got back from DC.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's crazy, the people you meet.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Leighton Canary was up there one night and he was visiting with somebody that attended a class that you and Leighton went to and they started chit-chatting and it's just amazing really.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: This is a close-knit community really when you kind of venture out of your comfort zone.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Sure Yep and so.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, yeah it's just kind of interesting.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: And the geographical areas naturally have their own culture.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's real interesting, a hundred percent.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's real interesting to go to the West Coast, and we could talk about California all day long.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: That's a whole other podcast.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, texas has its own culture.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, you come to Texas and I'll tell you North Texas is different from South Texas and East Texas is.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if we have a West Texas, I mean El Paso.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Is that still part of Texas?
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, West Texas and.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Midland and I ask that real sarcastically you know as a joke, but it's all out there, yeah, and so you can imagine what those guys are dealing with being on the border.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's interesting.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not one of those guys, that's, and I'm going to stay in my own little world.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of us like to get out there, shake hands and say, hey, here's what I do, what do you do in this situation?
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: And you have a whole different.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: The results the same, but the way they get to it is real interesting sometimes.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, police work man, you got to love it Again talking to a cop that never meant to be a cop.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: That's cool, that's cool.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, loving it here.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Well, and our non-LE listeners, the reason you have a lot of military in law enforcement is law enforcement is a very paramilitary organization and so when guys and girls get out of the military, they're looking for structure, a brother and sisterhood, a uniform, consistency, a mission adrenaline, and it's a very natural transition to continue when you get out of the service.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Rather than trying to figure out, well, I guess I'll go sit in an office all day, every day, and peck away at a computer.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: So how many years at your current agency?
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: 23?
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah 23 and a half right, because at one point that mattered a lot.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: That six months right, that seniority Seven and a wake up.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how many on SWAT?
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: 12 and a half.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: So how many more years are you looking to do before you pull the plug?
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Man, don't hold me to this, but I'm hoping three and a half, okay, three and a half.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: At this point, it's more about how good am I going to sit on retirement, financially, yep, and am I enjoying my job?
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: I could tell you, yesterday I walked away from work saying, damn, that was pretty cool, man.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: So I'm enjoying my job.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Don't stop.
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: Don't stop while you're having those days Because.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I will tell you, you'll know when you're done.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and if you're still walking away, going man, that was a good day.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I like that You're not there.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you I think you guys will agree don't walk away, burnt out either.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, I agree, there's a sweet spot.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: That's not what you're saying, but I just wanted to add that because, man, you don't want to look back at your years and let them be defined by the last six months of the time you were there.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: We had a couple of guys stay too long and probably about 17 or 18 years in.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: I thought I'm not going to be the angry, bitter a-hole roaming the halls.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: That used to be kind of a department favorite that now everybody hates them and avoids them because they're the bitter.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: I was like I will never do it.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Avoids them because they're the bitter.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: I was like I will never do it.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: But and when I hit my time I had 23 in team RS.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: But and I didn't realize it as much as my family were like you know, you're not getting up, chipper, going to work anymore.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: Or you know, you're starting to burn a lot of vacation time that you never I used to have so much comp and so much vacation.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: And finally I woke up one day I'm like, yep, I'm pretty.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: A lot of vacation time that you never I used to have so much comp and so much vacation.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: And finally I woke up one day I'm like, yep, I'm pretty much done.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: But I had a young officer call me from North Texas probably a year ago and he's like, hey, I know you retired at 42 and I'm done, I'm done, I'm going to leave.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: And I said, okay, so tell me what you do and he goes well, I'm a canine handler.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: I said okay.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: I said well, tell me about it, man, I'm catch dope and I've been getting loads.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: I mean I can hear him getting pumped talking about it.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: And I said, bud, I know you don't know me and I hope I don't hurt your feelings, but you're not ready.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: He's like but, sir, what do you mean?
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: I said, dude, I can hear you getting so excited right now, like you're about to put your uniform on and go back to work and you're not ready to retire.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, I guess I am doing that.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: And I was like, yes, man, you got me excited and I don't.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I've never been a canine.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: And I said you'll know you, just you'll know, that's a good way.
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: The best years of my career was when I was assigned somewhere with my dog.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: I literally would wake up way early and just be like what does today have for me today?
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: I literally would wake up way early and just be like what, what, what does today have for me today?
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: What was, what am I?
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: What's going to happen?
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Those are good days, those are good days, yeah, yeah.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: That's cool.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Well, we are going to be pushing out again and co-branding some training, upcoming training.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: We'll be pushing that out on our TMP website and through RDI's webpage as well, and so we will put the link here and we will put it also in the description of the of the podcast.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: We'd like to end each episode with three rapid fire questions.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: I hope you studied for them.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Here we go.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: All right, let's do it.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite cop line?
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I fucked it up.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite cop movie or lie from a cop movie?
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: that was a good one, I did that one favorite lie from a cop movie or a cop movie either one is favorite lie is re-racking that shotgun.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: After they've racked it, prepared it to fire.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: No, no, no line line like cop line oh shoot, it's that East Texas accent.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Talking about the accent, line, line, line like top line.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Oh shoot, it's that East.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Texas accent.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: Talk about the accent.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: That's all right.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: Like make my day.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: La respuesta en español.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Since you have your East Texas accent, I'll take out my Spanish.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: But I don't know if I have one.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: You got a favorite cop movie, I'll tell you, the most realistic one was probably what's that movie with Jay Gyllenhaal?
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: End of Watch.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: End of Watch that's a popular answer on the show had some parts that just weren't like no dude, don't ever take off your gear and try to fight.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: A dude can't do that.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: But it landed three day suspension, according to my good friend.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, landed with three days suspension, according to my good friend.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Uh, so, uh, yeah, that ambush scene in the end yeah uh, we actually use that for one of the counter ambush.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Uh, of course we have.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I told my boys.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: I introduced him to that show, that movie, probably six months ago and I said, if you want to understand the camaraderie, the sense of humor, dark humor, the bantering in a police car, the most realistic version I've seen is End of Watch Did a good job.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: What is your favorite cop car?
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: All-time cop car.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Well, favorite one is the Explorer that I currently drive, but I had my most awesome adventures in a Crown Vic.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, Because they're not good cars.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: It was an adventure.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you said a Ford Crown Vic.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: A Ford Crown Vic without the pre-laptop, so you can maneuver, and the reason why I say that, before your viewers get some ideas, is you had to know you had ideas is you had to know, you had to know, you had to know yeah, you know some of them are tripping.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: You had to know how to handle that car, especially a little bit of drizzle.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm talking about a little bit of drizzle.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: You better know how to handle that car.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: I took out many fences because of the drizzle, I'll tell you In pursuits.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: If you've never taken out and, by the way, this was reported, it's all official so I can talk about it- it's taken care of.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, if you've never flattened out four tires at the same time, then gotten out and been surprised that you bent all four rims at the same time.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: You haven't driven a Crown.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Vic.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Did you guys ever run into?
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: This is a squirrel moment.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: There was, like the 2005, 2007 range.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: There was a fuse in those Crown Vics and it went to the fuel pump Something with the fuse and if that fuse went out you couldn't crank the damn thing.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Was it the shutoff in the back In the trunk?
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: I'm not really sure.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I think it was.
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: It was a reset.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: It's a reset button.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: It's a reset.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: You had to open up the trunk and go reset it.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: It went off, and so we had to get one of our units towed to shop and it was a big cluster.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: The mechanic probably charged you $2,000 and just went and resell.
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: We had to figure it out ourselves.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: It probably wouldn't happen on a Chevrolet.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: No, the Caprice, we didn't have that.
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: We didn't have Chevros, we didn't take fences out either.
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: Now talk about a ride in the rain with that one.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: Because it was pure power.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: That was all it was.
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: There was no weight in the back.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: What cluster?
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Because it was pure power.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: That was all it was.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: There was no weight in the back.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: What's?
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: your favorite drink of choice when you're, uh, relaxing off duty.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Man, you got me on that one.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to say something manly right about, not right some whiskey name something, but anything with alcohol that relaxes me.
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: Fine, man, shirley temple, we're okay, we're all comfortable here.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: It can be whatever you you like A good margarita, man, I'll be honest with you A good margarita.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: Frozen or on the rocks Frozen, All right.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Yep, I'm not mad at that.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: Especially I don't know why it's so cheap of me, but especially if I can see the machine where they're getting it out of, I don't know why it makes me happy.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe it reminds me of the 7-Eleven getting slurpy on my own.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: But that just allows me to.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: That's a good day.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: What is the deal with San Antonio?
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Me and him were together one day on Saturation and y'all have got all these pull-through like margarita daiquiri places.
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: It's a margarita daiquiri place.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I know, but I'm saying like they're all over the place in San Antonio, Like all over the place.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: I want one of those.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: It's not all over.
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: Hey, it's not all over the place there's like 16 in San Antonio.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm not complaining they were good.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: We need those in North Texas.
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: Hey, they were legit.
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: It's a big barn and you just drive through, but he ordered it.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Oh, now he's going to put it on me.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my yeah, he was driving and so, anyway, I have to continue this story later on.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah sure, but yeah 15.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: There's 15 of them.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: See, there you go 15.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: Only off by one, I love you.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: I counted them all.
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: You know what's the bad part about that?
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: It's usually in the bad part of San Antonio.
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, oh yeah, you don't see that in the La Cantera area.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Those that know me know that I don't really frequent places that have all the working light bulbs, so I'm okay with going to.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: The only thing I'll catch is that he was about to say it in Spanish Did you catch that.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he stumbled a little bit.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, anything else.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Where can listeners, viewers, find you and RDI?
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, our website realitydefensenet.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure we're supposed to say wwwrealitydefensenet.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: You don't really hear people say that anymore do you Again, tell our age when we have to think about that On the World Wide Web, yeah so realitydefensenet, you'll find our website, find information.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: We not only put on training, but we also host great instructors at our facility down in Pleasanton, texas, just 20 miles south, 20 minutes south of San Antonio Is all training in Pleasanton, or do you guys take it on the road some, if the ability?
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: is man.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked that.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: That would have been my plug-in earlier.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: But no, we'll travel, we'll travel to you, we'll travel to your agency.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: So a lot of our training is based on an agency saying hey, I'll host it so that I can save money.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Give me two seats and then you handle the rest, the you money.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, give me two seats and then you handle the rest.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Perfect, that you the you being me.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Tmpa members, we do have a 15 off tmpa uh discount for all tmpa members that want to sign up for any one of our courses.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Um, that is extended based off our partnership.
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: So we appreciate, I appreciate you guys outstanding real quick um just to end on it too not just because.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: I know Jesse and because he's a good friend.
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: But he's a hell of an instructor.
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: You don't have to listen to me, but you can ask, jay.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: He says this to all the boys.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I know I'm going to now go to all these podcasts where he's talking.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: He says that to all the boys.
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: And Sean knows, but he does.
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: He knows what he's doing, he knows how to talk to the students and I've talked to the students afterwards just for our perspective of TFPA, and they have nothing but good things to say about his classes and him as an instructor.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: And they have nothing but good things to say about his classes and him as an instructor.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: Well, that's cool because we've got to have legit people teaching in this day and time.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Because it seems like everybody out there now wants to be Absolutely Tactical.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: I was former super secret squirrel and I can train you on this.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: And you watch some of their videos and you're like, oh dude, that scares me to death.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: I was at a conference and some guy was talking about how he was going through this training and they legitimately asked him like well, what unit were you in?
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: I said what branch of service?
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Can't tell you.
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: And I was like this dude is full of shit.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: And he was like what law I can't tell you?
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: And I was like well God, what can?
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: you tell me, but I told you five minutes later that I was just kidding, right.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was crazy.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: I was like Boy Scout Troop 1201.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know the Walmart.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Tactical Group.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Anyway well, hey, you guys, take care, Stay safe.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: We're going to drop the RDI information down in the description and we're also going to be pushing out some social media videos and push-outs here in the next couple weeks.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for coming up and greatly appreciate the partnership.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys, absolutely, it's been fun.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: You guys take care, stay safe.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Conference July 26th through July 28th Visit tmpaorg to get registered.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Greatly appreciate you guys.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: You guys take care, stay safe.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: God bless you.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: And, as always, may God bless Texas.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: We're out.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: Thank you.