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S5 E4: Inclusive Education Abroad with JP and Professor Ashby · Identity Abroad with Syracuse Abroad

• s5 e4 Wed, Oct 14, 2026 1:23PM • 39:33 SPEAKERS Speaker 5, Speaker 2, Speaker 3, Speaker 4, Speaker 1 Speaker 1 00:01 Hello and welcome back to the SU Abroad podcast. I am your host Ella Rorden, and I am joined once again by Delaney. And then today we have two very special guests. You want to introduce yourselves? Speaker 2 00:13 Sure. I'm Christy Ashby. I am a professor in the School of Education, and I had the pleasure of co-teaching a study abroad course in Italy, and I'm actually joined here with one of the students from that course. Hi, Speaker 3 00:28 JP. You want to introduce yourself? I'm JP. Amazing. Do you want to talk a little bit about your experience? What where you guys went on your trip? We went to Italy, and we saw schools. Amazing. Okay, what else did you do? Speaker 2 00:51 So this was a two-week intentionally inclusive abroad trip. So it included students, matriculated students at SU, and then also students from our Inclusive U program. We visited schools, we visited universities, we spent some time at the Florence Center. Nice. So basically, we traveled from Florence, Venice, Padua, and Rome over the course of two weeks. Speaker 3 01:12 Amazing. I know Ella went to Florence. So yeah, Speaker 1 01:15 I studied abroad in Florence three years ago, and I have never been to Padua, but it's on the list. Venice is one of my favorite places in the world, though. Speaker 3 01:24 Yeah, I highly Speaker 2 01:25 recommend a trip to Padua. It is beautiful. The people are really friendly. It's a great place to walk around. Speaker 3 01:30 Where is that located? Is this all? Is that also in Tuscany? Or Speaker 2 01:33 it's about a 30-minute ride train ride from Venice. Speaker 3 01:38 Okay. Okay. So maybe a little more. Amazing. Did you have a favorite place that you went, JP? Realm. Realm. Rome is pretty Speaker 1 01:53 cool. The history there is just so fascinating. Like knowing that you're walking down streets that have existed for 2000 years is a really special feeling that you don't get anywhere else. Speaker 2 02:04 Yeah, I think one of my favorite parts about Rome is that you're you're you'll be walking down what feels like a very typical metropolitan city, and then you turn a corner, and then there's ruins, and then you turn another corner, and it's just busy bustling city. And so I think that combination of old and new is really fascinating. Speaker 3 02:21 What did you love about it, JP? Learning new stuff. That is the best part of study abroad, is it not? Good Speaker 2 02:31 answer. Absolutely, that's the studious answer. That's why we do it. Yeah. And Speaker 1 02:35 hey, learning doesn't have to mean just the classroom. You learn in so many different ways studying abroad more than you could ever learn by just sitting in a classroom here in Syracuse. Speaker 3 02:46 Yeah, or just taking a trip-it's the best of both worlds, you know. Truly, what kind of activities did you do on? Because this is a faculty-led short-term trip, so it's pretty intensive, I imagine. Speaker 2 03:00 Yeah, so my colleague Beth Myers and I taught it the year that JP went, and then my colleague Julia White and I taught it this past year. So we do a little bit of of coursework before we go to get people acclimated, understand a little bit about the background and the history of why we're going to Italy to talk about disability and inclusion, and then once we're there, it's a combination of classes, cultural visits, but also some of the best parts are the school visits. So we visited both primary and secondary schools and universities in both Florence, Padua, and Rome while we were there. Speaker 3 03:32 Okay, and then was Venice more of the fun bit? Speaker 2 03:34 Venice was the fun part. Venice was the one day that folks got to do what they wanted, and so we hope they got to do lots of things they wanted, but Venice is really a day of relaxing, fun, traveling, wandering about with friends, gondola rides-you know, all the things one wants to do in Speaker 4 03:50 Venice. I Speaker 1 03:50 can't even imagine Venice in a school setting. Speaker 2 03:54 Yeah, when I so I have been part of abroad courses in Italy for over a decade, and early in earlier iterations of this, we actually used to do more quote unquote coursework in Venice, and we would have a conference at one of the universities. Venice is a hard place to to stay; it's really expensive. So we found it's a lot better to do a day trip there and then have a home base elsewhere. Speaker 3 04:21 Okay, that's interesting. That makes sense. Speaker 1 04:23 So, what acted as the home base in that case, Padua? Yeah. So Speaker 2 04:27 we we went to Padua. It's also Venice is also a little bit of a challenging place to navigate if you. That's what my user was. Yeah. And so on JP's trip, we didn't have anyone who got around in a wheelchair. Although we did have some folks who had some mobility issues. But in our last trip, one of our students was a wheelchair user, and that is-it's not the easiest place to navigate. Speaker 1 04:46 I would imagine a lot of Italy wouldn't be with the cobblestone streets and all of that. Speaker 2 04:51 Absolutely, we had to do a lot of of thinking about how to navigate space. We had to support each other, reroute, take different. Of public transit to try to make that work for everyone. Speaker 3 05:02 Okay, that made me think of something else, and I'm not going to remember what what what did you learn about in the classroom? Like, what was sort of especially in visiting local classrooms? Speaker 2 05:16 So the reason that we go to Italy-that was my other question. Yeah, is because Italy has a really long history of including students with disabilities in public in regular classrooms. So when the U.S. passed its right to education law in the mid '70s, Italy had already passed their law Integration Scholastica, which guarantees all students the rights to attend public school in general education classrooms, and so while you know there's policy changes that have happened since then, they have this really long history, and so when we visit classrooms, we're really looking at what does it mean to be in a space where all students are included. How does that happen? How is staffing different? How do students interact? Where where do the teachers put their focus and their energy? And so it's a really interesting. It's the purpose of the class isn't to just make comparisons, but it is to really understand what inclusion means in a different cultural context, which is a really great way to then talk about what does it mean in a U.S. context. Speaker 3 06:16 That's powerful. Speaker 1 06:18 Is there anything like in that you guys have taken from these Italy programs and have brought back to apply here in Syracuse, Speaker 2 06:28 I'll answer that, and I'd be curious what JP would think about that too. You know, one of the things that we really notice in Italian classrooms is this focus on schools as communities and schools as families, and that I think we've we've seen a pull away from that in the U.S. This idea of of really thinking about a school as as this this really a community absolutely and so that idea that we're all in the space together we're all responsible for each other that really parallels the way we structure this course we're traveling together, we're living together, we're navigating public transit together. When folks have different degrees of background, also different experiences, and trying to figure out how to do that. But I don't, JP. What did you take from your school visits? Like, what was the most interesting part of visiting a school for you? Speaker 3 07:21 Learning how the schools were different from the U.S. schools. Was there any major differences that caught your eye or made you think that all the students were included? That's amazing. And did you find that the Italian students were very welcoming to you as visitors? Yeah, I'd love to hear that. That's interesting because it's hard to go into other people's space sometime. I don't know if you how you felt doing that. Speaker 2 07:56 They actually at at one of the schools we visited in Florence, they you know, these were high school students, and what high school students do Speaker 4 08:05 is Speaker 2 08:06 they want to talk about music, they want to talk about sports, they want to talk about clothes, but also we ended up being there during a gym class, and so immediately we got pulled into a basketball game and a volleyball game, and it was the best way to sort of break down interactions because we're all equally good and equally bad at those things, and you don't need a lot of language to do that. So we do Speaker 1 08:28 say that sports are unifying, and that can be true in more than one way. Yeah, Speaker 3 08:32 the rules of basketball apply everywhere, right? Speaker 2 08:35 Absolutely, and I think that the Italian primary grade students and high school students want to practice their English, and so while we keep encouraging our students to try out some Italian because we do some Italian lessons while we're there, the Italian kids are way better at English than any of us were at Italian. Speaker 1 08:53 I felt similarly when I was in Italy. I got a internship at an elementary school helping teach the kids English, and I was barely learning Italian. And these kids are like going in circles around me. So, how did you find navigating the language barrier in general, like with the other the staff at those schools that you were interacting with, and all of that? Speaker 2 09:18 So, you know, I think there's so much English in Italy, and and you know it's always one of the things that I think is wonderful when you travel to Europe. But it also reminds me of how frustrating it is in the U.S. that we don't have the same valuing of second language or third or fourth language usage. But I I think there's a lot of universality in experience, and we used a lot of you know Google Translate if we needed to. We'd done a lot of Duolingo. We had a couple of our you know classmates had spent a lot of time on that, but we also had a little bit of Italian language instruction while we were there, and we always had someone with us that was fluent and could translate for us, and that that was really helpful. Speaker 3 10:00 How was that experience for you, JP? Were you nervous? Did you feel like you learned a little Italian? Yeah. Nice. Did you get a chance to practice it at all? No. No. Speaker 2 10:13 Yeah. We. It was. It was Matt that really had spent a lot of time before we got there. He had had, I think, a 400 day Duolingo. So we really leaned hard on him when we were stuck. Yeah. Speaker 3 10:25 No. Well. Plus, if everyone can speak English, it's very easy to lapse back into doing that. So I Speaker 1 10:32 feel like I remember like attempting to speak Italian, and then the Italians would just be like, "It's okay. We'll speak English. Speaker 2 10:38 My problem is I've been there enough times that I actually can sit down in a restaurant and do basic, you know, hello, tell people I don't eat gluten, right? I can do those things, but then they think I speak Italian, and then immediately I have no idea what they say. I did have that Speaker 1 10:55 too. Yeah. So, do you guys work with? Do you go to the same schools every year that you run this program, Speaker 2 11:02 so we have had some consistent. We went to the same school in Florence the last two summers. In Rome, we actually went to a different school, and both of them are phenomenal. But so we really rely on local contacts that we have. So several of us have have done a lot of work in Italy over the years and have developed some really close relationships with both administrators, teachers, but also university faculty, and that has really helped us to be able to get access to these school buildings. We also rely heavily on the Florence Center staff, who are wonderful in recommending places to visit. So the school we've been going to in Florence the last two years came from them. Speaker 3 11:40 Okay, that's fascinating, especially if you've been running this program for decades. I have to imagine there's now lots of different connections. Speaker 2 11:47 Yes, yes. Speaker 3 11:48 So that made me think. If you visited sites as well, did you have any favorite particular places you went in Rome, JP, or in Florence, or in any of the places you visited? I just like learning. I like learning new things. Okay, yeah, I think that's actually the nice part about Italy to me too is most Americans have like a basic understanding of Italian history, Roman history. So I think it's a really great place to sort of bring to life a lot of things that for years you might have have like a general understanding of, and to actually see in person after you know maybe decades of learning about it. Yeah, Speaker 2 12:28 JP, which did you prefer going to the Coliseum or going to the museums that we visited? The Speaker 5 12:35 museum. Yeah. Speaker 3 12:36 Oh, really? Speaker 1 12:37 Italy is really good at museums. Speaker 2 12:39 Yeah, and so every year we go to the academia to see David, which is it doesn't matter how many times I see it. That sculpture, I could stand there all day. We always go to the Uffizi, and then we obviously spend some time at the Colosseum and the Forum. And the Coliseum is usually a pretty big hit with students. Speaker 3 12:56 Yeah, I'm I'm kind of with UJP. I was kind of dozing off at the Colosseum a little bit. I don't know. I was maybe just the the time of day, but I'm a museum girl myself. Speaker 1 13:06 I think that Florence, in particular, the Duomo Museum. I don't know if you guys have been to that, but I felt like that was a really well done museum. It's got like something for everyone, and that has kind of become a standard like that. I take with me when I go to any other museum anywhere else in the world. Is like, is there like video and audio and something tactile and like not just reading words on a wall? And I think that that's really important because like everybody learns differently, everybody experiences the world differently, and not everybody wants to stand around for an hour reading words on a wall. I mean, some people do. Sometimes I do, but I think having all of those different like multimedia options is really important. And there are some museums that I've been to in Italy and other places that don't have as much of that multimedia applying to different ways of learning, but there were some really strong ones in Italy. I thought that Speaker 2 14:10 there's a great museum in Ancona. It's called the Museum of Touch, and we don't go there anymore because the the trip used to be three weeks long. Where is Speaker 1 14:18 Ancona? Speaker 2 14:19 Ancona is up in the Marquet region, up in the north. Speaker 3 14:21 Okay, Speaker 2 14:22 and so we used to stay do the trip for three weeks, and the first week was up in this very rural part of Italy. And Ancona is a city on the coast, and they have a museum there that is all focused on things you can engage with tactily. And so they take some of the great works of art and then they shrink them down so you can touch them. They have paintings that are made into elevated relief so you can feel them. And the whole idea is that all people, regardless of whatever sensory issues you might have, ought to be able to experience great art. And I I want to get back to that museum because it was just such an amazing experience to get to feel the David to get to. Feel what some of these famous paintings look like and feel like. It's a really neat experience, Speaker 3 15:05 especially because that's kind of the one museum rule: is don't touch. Speaker 2 15:09 I know, and it's so hard not to. So, oh Speaker 3 15:12 my gosh! Did you guys have any places you would like to eat, or any other sort of personal pastimes that were enjoyable for everyone. Speaker 1 15:21 Yeah, did you get like a favorite Italian food? Speaker 3 15:25 I don't remember. That's understandable. Speaker 2 15:27 Were you more into the pizza or the pasta, JP? Speaker 3 15:32 Pasta. Yeah, me too. I'm a pasta girl. Speaker 1 15:35 Pizza is all well and good, but I kind of like American pizza better than Italian. It's a little different. It is a little different. My host mom, when I was there, would make like pizza dough from scratch, which was great. But like, I feel like nothing beats the New York pizza slice. This might be an unpopular opinion, but pasta rules the world, and Italian pasta. I think about every day. Speaker 3 15:57 Yeah, pasta and gelato. Oh yeah. What about gelato? Did you have a lot about the of that, JP? Ice cream. I don't Speaker 2 16:09 remember. Yeah, I we made a lot of trips for gelato, and and what's interesting is Italy actually is a country that is really good about food allergies. Speaker 3 16:18 So you know, I think I've heard that from our students, Speaker 2 16:21 yeah. So it's actually, you know, we had several people on the trip that were gluten free or dairy free or had other food allergies, and the restaurants are really attuned to that. And there's really great options. And so, like people would assume, Italy's not a great place to visit if you can't eat gluten. It actually is because they really take it seriously, and because food is so important to Italian culture, they want it to be good, so not just like here's a salad you can have, but everything is Speaker 1 16:46 stored there too. Like you can eat pasta every day, all day, without feeling like any kind of those additives and all of the nonsense that we have in food here. So that's I think just really important, like Italian, like you said, it's it's important to the culture. Did you have a favorite gelato flavor that you encountered? Speaker 2 17:09 So I don't eat dairy, so gelato's rough for me. When in the days when I did, Stracciatella is my favorite chocolate chip. If you don't know, but there is a place in Rome that has all gluten free, dairy free, sugar free gelato. Speaker 3 17:25 Oh, Speaker 2 17:25 which sounds like all Speaker 1 17:27 their flavors are everything. Speaker 2 17:28 Everything. The whole store is. They also were a chocolate shop, and so I would go there as many times as I could when I'm in Rome. Speaker 1 17:36 Yeah, when in Rome. When Speaker 2 17:38 in Rome, eat ice cream that you can eat. Yep, Speaker 3 17:40 that's nice. Again, very accommodating. That's pretty cool. Speaker 2 17:43 Yeah. Speaker 3 17:44 Okay, I'm trying to think if was there any other highlights of the trip that we missed for you, JP, that you really enjoyed? Would you want to travel to Italy again? I don't know. Speaker 2 18:00 Was there on our last day in Rome, JP? Remember when we went to the Borghese Gardens? Did you ride one of the bikes, or did you go off and do something else? Speaker 3 18:13 Wow! Speaker 2 18:14 You took a walk. Okay, yeah. So one of our our last day in the last two years, we've gone to the Borghese Gardens in Rome, and students just kind of got to figure out how they wanted to experience their last day there, and so some of the students took these really great walks through the park, and some of us jumped on, you know, the little pedal bikes with and and rode around, and that was a real highlight for a lot of people. I think it was beautiful day, great last way to to end the trip. Speaker 3 18:37 That's gorgeous. I love a city garden. I think it's like especially some of these in Europe, they are just unbelievably beautiful, perfectly manicured. Speaker 1 18:46 I can't remember if I went to the Berghese Gardens in Rome. I was there in like December, but I the Boboli Gardens in Florence. Do you guys go to those? Speaker 2 18:56 I have. We don't do a trip there as the class, but I've I've gone when I've visited other dams. Speaker 1 19:01 It's such an incredible place. Like I have romanticized everything about my life when I'm in the middle of the garden. Speaker 3 19:08 There you go. So I know that next we're switching it up. Is this the first time we're going to Ireland? Speaker 2 19:16 This is. This is the first time that we're doing a broad trip to Ireland, or that that the School of Ed is. Yes, yes. We wanted to try. You know, the whole idea of doing these sort of intentionally inclusive trips is to really mirror the way we think about education, which is that it's an study abroad is an experience everyone should get to have, and we want to figure out how to make sure that all students can get to do that. And so, doing these short courses both are more, you know, financially feasible for some students, but also these faculty-led trips allow students who might feel less comfortable an opportunity to be in to be abroad in a way that feels feels comfortable, safe, and supportive. But we don't want this to be the only opportunity, and so we've been really thinking. About how do we scale? How do we be a model for other programs? And so part of that is how do we think about other sites we could visit? And we chose Ireland because again we have really good connections there with some of the universities in both Dublin and Cork, and we wanted to try this out, and we also wanted to try doing a spring break trip instead of a summer trip. I forgot Speaker 3 20:23 it was a spring break because Speaker 2 20:24 it allows different students an opportunity to go. We were, I have to say, a little surprised by the response we've gotten so far. Speaker 3 20:32 Yeah, Speaker 2 20:33 the decisions about who gets to go is going to be a challenge, but that's a fabulous problem to have, and it tells us what the demand is for an opportunity like this. Speaker 3 20:42 That's very true. How many applicants do you usually have about for Italy? Like, Speaker 2 20:47 we usually have. I think the last two years we've had around 30. Okay, so this is Speaker 3 20:51 a decent amount. And then, how Speaker 1 20:52 many can the programs each take? Speaker 2 20:55 We took 14 the year that JP went. We took 16 last year, and we're doing 16 for Ireland. But you know, but as I said, we've already had over. I know we're pushing 45 applications, so Speaker 3 21:07 we're gonna see next year. Run it back, run it back. Speaker 4 21:11 Yeah, hopefully it's not Speaker 3 21:12 all seniors. Speaker 1 21:13 Maybe it'll develop into like you have multiple groups that go at the same time or something. That's Speaker 2 21:19 our. We're already talking about okay. Clearly, there's interest. How do we think about creating more opportunities, and how do we think about using our centers in different ways? And so we're really, we're super excited by the response from our inclusive use students and also from the matriculated students to just have this this opportunity together. Speaker 1 21:38 So, is there collaboration with the London program for the Ireland trip. Speaker 2 21:44 We are we we're no we're not working closely with the Yatta. Super Speaker 1 21:48 close, but right. Speaker 2 21:48 But we but that is certainly a place we're talking about. You know, we have we've had requests to think about France. We've had requests to think about Madrid. You know, we're Ireland is also nice. The language is easy, obviously. But yeah, we're super excited, and it's just been the chance to get to know students in a really different way. is is one of the best parts of this from a faculty perspective. You learn so much more about students when you travel with them. Yeah, how Speaker 3 22:14 did you feel about traveling with faculty, JP? Good. You enjoyed that aspect of it, yeah, nice. How about the other students? Because there was probably folks you hadn't met before. I think it was good because I like meeting new people. Hey, I love that. That's one of my favorite parts of study abroad. Yeah, Speaker 1 22:35 making new friends. So, did you guys all fly on the planes together over? Speaker 2 22:40 Yeah. So we for the our Italy trip we meet in at JFK and then fly over together for Ireland. We'll go all the way from Syracuse together. Speaker 3 22:49 Nice, Speaker 2 22:50 but the that group the that that cohort that JP was in still I don't think a week goes by that our group chat doesn't have something in it. Oh, really? Somebody wishing somebody a happy birthday. Somebody we always take sightings when we run into each other. We just snap pictures, and so I think that that group in particular has really stayed connected over the last you know year and a half. Speaker 1 23:11 And I do think that's part of the beauty of like the smaller programs. I've haven't done a faculty led or short term program myself, but I've done some of the smaller center programs where there's like a dozen of us and like that, those kinds of bonds that you make traveling with such a small group of people are really special. So, is the Ireland program going to be like a similar structure to the Italy one, where you're going to visit other schools? Speaker 2 23:40 The Ireland program is a little more focused on college, so we're really looking at sort of these inclusive postsecondary programs, and we're focusing on transition. So as opposed to visiting primary or secondary schools, we're visiting universities, and we'll meet university students, and we're talking about, you know, Europe is overall doesn't have nearly as many programs like our Inclusive U program, but Ireland is one of the countries that does, and they have laws that guarantee some of the same opportunities, and so that's one of the reasons we're going there. Okay, nice. So Speaker 1 24:15 Ireland, Speaker 2 24:16 yeah, it's really exciting, and we're so we'll spend some time at Trinity College, and then we'll spend some time at University of Cork. Okay. Speaker 1 24:23 So, have you yourself been to Ireland before? Scope it out Speaker 2 24:27 just once. So, actually, our team from the Center on Disability and Inclusion and our Inclusive You Program, we went over for a conference, which is sort of what got us thinking about this would be a great site for a study abroad opportunity. Speaker 3 24:40 Gotcha. Okay. So that that planted the Speaker 2 24:43 seeds. Speaker 1 24:43 So how long does it take to get a program like this up and running? Like how long has this been in the works creating this Ireland? Speaker 2 24:51 So I have to give all the credit to the team in Syracuse Abroad for every time that my colleague Beth and I have a weird idea, they're like, okay, let's figure this out. So they've been amazing. I'm glad to hear. We started talking about this Ireland trip last spring. We really started the planning on it this summer. So you know, a year. I think if we didn't have any contacts, that'd be a harder thing to pull off. But because we are going places with established relationships, we we can we can figure out an itinerary that makes sense, and then work with the logistical teams to figure out how to operationalize that. Speaker 3 25:27 Gotcha. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not as familiar with our faculty-led program development, so I'm always wondering: is this like something that takes two years or whatever? But it sounds like it's a little more fluid, especially once you guys get going. I think knowing that you have established like a rhythm with having a faculty-led program every year helps too. I imagine. Speaker 2 25:45 Yeah, I think if somebody was trying to start this for the first time, there would be a pretty steep learning curve. But I've been doing these abroad programs for a while, and I was doing it with people that that had done it before me, and so I think there's a a mentoring that really helps. It also it helps to be somebody who's pretty comfortable with spontaneity and never quite knowing what's going to happen because these faculty led trips are intensive, they're fast paced. You have to be ready to change on the fly, and so I think that really helps that our team we kind of thrive on that. Speaker 3 26:18 Yeah, Speaker 2 26:19 and and the students were really willing to sort of figure that out with Speaker 3 26:23 us. Yeah, that's another that the students have to be game. You are in a cohesive unit now, you know, when one person's experiencing the group sort of experiences. I think, Speaker 2 26:32 JP, I'd be curious if we were going to think about a different location to go to. I know you've done quite a bit of traveling. Where would you want us to think about a study abroad trip. Speaker 3 26:42 I don't Speaker 2 26:45 care. Speaker 3 26:46 Do you like everywhere? Yeah. Speaker 2 26:49 JP spends a lot of time in New York City. Oh, big Broadway fan, big theater fan. So, oh, Speaker 3 26:55 I did not know that. So maybe London for the West End. That's what I was Speaker 2 26:59 thinking about that. Yeah. Speaker 3 27:00 Okay. That's one of the highlights of our London program. I'd say we do a lot with the theater, Shakespeare's Globe, which is another major theater historical location. Love that place. Yeah. Where else have you really enjoyed traveling to, JP? I don't know. That is totally understandable. I like going. I mean, one of the hard questions I have is people will ask like a traveler, "Oh, where's your favorite place? They're all my favorite places for different reasons. Speaker 1 27:36 Spent three semesters abroad, and everybody's like, "Oh, which one's your favorite? And I'm like, "I don't know. Yeah, it's like Speaker 3 27:42 asking me to choose my favorite child. Not possible. Speaker 2 27:46 Where else have you gone besides? Speaker 1 27:47 So I did Florence, and then I did the Santiago program, and then I did the Exploring Central Europe program in Poland. So those were all just each unique in their own way, and all had different strengths in my memory, but yeah, they were all really special experiences. Speaker 2 28:07 Yeah, it's great. Speaker 3 28:08 All very different pedagogically as well. Central Europe and Santiago were very education intensive, academics intensive. Speaker 1 28:16 Yeah, Florence was just fun. I mean, they're all like fun and whimsical, but I think Florence was more like food and art based, and then Santiago and Poland were more like history and like more recent history based. Because Florence, we talk a lot about the Renaissance because there's so much there, and it's like the birthplace of the Renaissance and everything. But with Poland and Santiago, more of the like 20th century stuff. But all incredible programs. Speaker 2 28:58 Yeah, I think for me, I I didn't study abroad when I was in college. That was just it seemed financially out of reach for me. I just I I couldn't figure it out, and and so when I got the opportunity to start getting involved with study abroad here and realizing what sort of the commitment is to making that happen, and the School of Education works incredibly hard to ensure that all students can have an opportunity to go abroad, that isn't always possible in schools of ed because of the field requirements. We also have some really good financial support in the school of ed, and so I, I feel like that's that's one of the things that really draws people to our program is that we will work with you to do study abroad, study away, these short courses, and and it's something I think it's a real source of pride, and it's a it's a real sort of distinguishing element of our program. Yeah, and Speaker 3 29:47 it's long established, so that's like I love being able to when I talk to school about our potential education students, I can say wholeheartedly, you guys have great options, and the school of education works really hard to make sure they're. Speaker 2 30:00 Yeah, Speaker 1 30:02 I did want to ask if you're able to. Can you share a little more about the financial aspect of it? Because I know, like, with the semester-long programs, any financial aid that you have already at SU travels with you, and there's other grants and things like that. But how does the funding work for? Speaker 2 30:18 So certainly, students doing any study abroad programs can apply for you know their federal financial aid that that can be considered. There's also obviously awards they can apply for through study abroad, but the School of Ed has some specific scholarship support through the Corinne Smith Fund. Corinne Smith was a former dean and longtime faculty in the School of Ed, and some money was given in her honor, and then added to to really ensure that school of education students could get access to global experiences. So we are able to supplement the other financial aid that students get with additional scholarship funds. For inclusive youth students, we have dedicated scholarship funds for that that program as well, and so between those two funding sources, we can provide a really unique level of support for students that has created opportunity that that wouldn't exist in other places. Speaker 3 31:11 That's awesome, yeah, and that's great. You know, and so and with a spring short term program, all of your tuitions included as well, so that helps a little bit as well. Yeah, there's a little difference between the spring faculty led and the summer faculty led, but Speaker 2 31:25 and that's one of the reasons we wanted to try this is because it does make it even more cost effective, and that it can get rolled into your spring tuition as opposed to being an add-on. And so, you know, we'll see how it works. The one week thing, we're gonna have a lot of learning the one week versus two, but but it does, you know. So this is great. We'll get to see some different options and then figure out where we want to go next year. Speaker 3 31:47 Will there be more of an on-campus component to that class? Speaker 2 31:50 We will do. We'll have to do a little bit more before after sort of instruction than we do in the Italy program. Speaker 3 31:57 Yeah, I think that makes sense. Are Speaker 1 31:58 there like with this Ireland program and the Italy program are there like essays or projects that are associated with like what comes after you come back from abroad? Speaker 2 32:09 Yeah, so for the for the Italy program, they they have several assignments. They do a cultural presentation. They did sort of a multimedia introduction of themselves because you know we wanted everyone to feel comfortable with each other, but then they also write a couple reflection papers while they're there, and then a final project that they get to decide. But because we had a really diverse group of students, for some people that was a paper, for some people it might have been a video. I can't remember, JP. What did you do? What was your final project? Speaker 3 32:41 I think paper. Speaker 2 32:42 I think you did yours as paper. Okay. We had students who did them as audio recordings. We had students who made PowerPoints. But the idea was reflect your learning in a way that works for you, and we'll we'll follow a similar format for Ireland. And we also build in a lot of intentional academic support during the trip, so there's note takers for every class. We have study sessions in the evenings so that students have can do work collaboratively. We had plain language versions of readings, so depending on people's reading level, everyone could access the content. And so we build it's the beauty of having school of education professors whose this is our work, we were able to build those accommodations in pretty naturally. Speaker 3 33:26 Well, it's like very 360. It seems like like the whole thing is is accessible and and at every level, which I think is really beautiful. Speaker 1 33:35 Very well tailored program. It seems like you guys have had the experience, like the trial and error, finding out what works, what doesn't work, Speaker 2 33:44 and our students are the best sort of of both advocates for what we do, but also giving us really good feedback on what's working and what's not. Oh, that's amazing, and that's really helpful. So they they really were invested, particularly JP's cohort, because they were the first time that we did it this way. They were really invested in this being the first time this was happening in this way, and how do we make sure that this is successful for other students? Speaker 3 34:06 That's really special. Did you did you have any feedback on the experience, JP, positive or otherwise? No, no. Two thumbs up from you. Yeah, excellent. I love that. I mean, honestly, I think that's what most study students studying abroad give us though not always a not always 100 a 10 out of 10 but at least a solid eight or nine it's hard it it's also a good reminder that your faculty are people doing things for the first time too so I think you learn a lot about adults when you have these kind of intimate experiences Speaker 2 34:40 absolutely actually that makes me think of the very last day of our trip last summer. You know, these are intensive trips, and Speaker 3 34:47 there's not Speaker 2 34:48 a lot of downtime when you're when you're traveling with with with a group of people. And I had a moment at the airport where everything just went wrong on our flight home. You know, our flights were classic Speaker 3 34:58 place for it. Speaker 2 34:58 I just kept getting. Matter what line I was in, I kept getting moved to the end of it, and I got separated from everyone. and And one of the students asked me a question, and I and I snapped, and I hadn't snapped for two weeks. And she sort of looked at me, and I said, "I'm so sorry. She goes, "No, that was like the most human response. But I think it was this idea that we don't often get to see our faculty being people that get frustrated, and and so I think that was actually you know I think there's all those little moments throughout a trip where we all have to say hey I need a moment I need to step away can someone else step in I need to go take a walk does somebody want to come with me right like this idea of really trying to model how we live in community and support each other, I think, is a really powerful part of an abroad experience, Speaker 3 35:45 and give each other understanding and grace. Speaker 2 35:48 Yeah, that everybody needs it, everybody gets it, and everybody gives it. I think that's really important, Speaker 3 35:53 and the world would be a better place if we all could do that all the time. If Speaker 2 35:57 that little microcosm could get sort of expanded, but that's you know, come hang out in the in Huntington Hall on the third floor. You'll you'll feel that a lot of the time because you know we really I think that's this idea of taking care of each other and and and enjoying sort of new experiences together is a real central idea of our work. Speaker 3 36:15 Yeah, we were tabling during the involvement fair and we were next to the inclusive view table, and it just seemed like it just kept growing and growing and there was constantly students hanging out. They were coming over and asking us questions, and it seemed like a really beautiful community of friends hanging out. Yeah, which I love. Good Speaker 2 36:34 energy. Speaker 3 36:35 Do you enjoy the inclusive view program, JP? Yeah, awesome. That's amazing. Would you travel abroad again with them? Yeah. Awesome. There you go. That's as good of a cosign as I think you can ask for. Speaker 2 36:51 Absolutely. Speaker 3 36:52 Okay. Speaker 1 36:53 So, in the interest of time, do you want to share a quick fun fact? Your favorite fun fact about, I guess Italy or Ireland. Speaker 2 37:02 Oh boy, let's see. I think maybe one of my favorite fun facts about Ireland, because I'm getting excited for it, is that I'm a big music lover, and everywhere you go in Ireland, there's live music, and so you just sort of step into a pub or you're walking down the street, and there's just live music everywhere, and everyone is so friendly. I think I that's the what I can't wait for is that sort of feeling of just music everywhere. Speaker 1 37:30 That's awesome. Speaker 3 37:31 That's what I've heard about Ireland myself. I need now. I Speaker 1 37:33 need to go to Ireland. Speaker 2 37:35 It's kind of hard to explain. Speaker 1 37:37 You just have to know it when you feel it. Speaker 3 37:39 Yeah, part of the culture. Did you have anything extra cool that you learned in Italy, JP? No. That's okay. That's it's hard to remember all that stuff. We every even when we do this, we have a hard time remembering. I mean, plus I studied abroad a decade ago, so please forgive me, Speaker 2 37:56 JP. What would you tell somebody else going on a trip like this? What what advice would you give them? Speaker 3 38:01 Oh, that's good. To be comfortable. Speaker 2 38:09 Yeah, that's great advice, and also to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Exactly, that's a lot of what we we you know get ourselves out of our comfort zones. Speaker 3 38:18 That is maybe my number one piece of study erotics advice. So I'd love to hear you say that. Is put yourself out there and embrace the unexpected space into Speaker 1 38:31 the stretch zone. Speaker 3 38:32 Yeah. Oh, there you go. I actually don't think I've heard that before. I like that. It's Speaker 1 38:35 like there's the comfort zone and then there's the danger zone. But you don't want to be in the danger zone, but you go into the stretch zone. Love that. I learned that at summer camp. I don't know. Speaker 3 38:44 I think that's a that's a pretty good one. We can use that. Okay. Speaker 1 38:48 All right. Shall we say goodbye? I think. Thank you guys so much for coming on today and sharing all of your experiences. I think this is a really cool episode, and I didn't know like basically any of this information, so hopefully anyone out there listening will. I mean, I guess you guys are going to be filled up for this Ireland. Please Speaker 2 39:06 get your applications in if you haven't done it yet, because and also pay attention. We hope to keep doing this. Speaker 1 39:12 Yeah, and is the Italy one also going to run again next summer? Speaker 2 39:14 We're hoping we're we're actually hoping we might be able to run both next year. So we've got to figure out how to staff it, but we're thinking about how do we keep how do we keep these both where there's Speaker 1 39:24 a will, there's a way. Speaker 2 39:25 Absolutely. So thanks so much for having us. Speaker 1 39:27 Yeah, thank you so much for being here. Have a great week, everybody. Speaker 2 39:30 Thank you.